Rachmaninov’s Symphony No 2 – which recording is best?

[Gerard]

"Rachmaninov’s Symphony No 2 – which recording is best?"

A very nice overview/discography of this symphony by David Gutman on the
website of Gramophone:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-which-recording-is-best

[RiRiIII]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 7:43:15 PM UTC+2, Gerard wrote:
> "Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 - which recording is best?"

>
> A very nice overview/discography of this symphony by David Gutman on the
> website of Gramophone:
>
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-which-recording-is-best

If only Decca recorded Chailly and the Gewandhaus O - their all recent concert, broadcast live, was tremendous.

[Lawrence Chalmers]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 10:43:15 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 - which recording is best?"

>
> A very nice overview/discography of this symphony by David Gutman on the
> website of Gramophone:
>
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-which-recording-is-best

Has anyone ever heard the Handley recording w/Royal Philharmonic? I was very pleased with it.

[Sol L. Siegel]

"Gerard" <ghendr-no...@live.nl> wrote in
news:8da56$55047331$54686658$25...@news.ziggo.nl:

I've always been a big fan of the Sanderling. Too bad he gave such short
shrift to Temirkanov/EMI, long my favorite stereo version. But it is
hard to get these days.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Ray Hall]

Am glad someone chose Previn's first recording with the LSO. Generally
and seemingly an underrated conductor, especially wrt his earlier work.

I very much like the darker more volatile reading by Ashkenazy also.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Randy Lane]

Anyone familiar with the Ashkenazy/Syndney recording on Exton?

[Bob Harper]

I mentioned this concert, which I downloaded, recently, to no response.
I agree--it was tremendous. Given that most, if not all, of his recent
releases have been based on live performances, I would not be surprised
if a commercial recording made from the concerts appeared on disc.

Bob Harper

[Kerrison]

On Sunday, March 15, 2015 at 2:51:28 AM UTC, Ray Hall wrote:
> Gerard wrote:

> > "Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 - which recording is best?"

I agree about the first Previn / LSO recording for RCA. It may have had the then-usual cuts but it was a far more exciting, vivid and vital performance than his rather soft-centred, somewhat soggy EMI re-make.

Interesting to read at the end of the Gramophone's first para that Stokowski's 1945 Hollywood Bowl performance on M&A was uncut. It's complete at 51 minutes on You Tube where the uploader says he thinks "it's the best interpretation" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwAYmI0Bpfk

[mrs...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 6:43:15 PM UTC+1, Gerard wrote:
> "Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 - which recording is best?"

>
> A very nice overview/discography of this symphony by David Gutman on the
> website of Gramophone:
>
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-which-recording-is-best

Interesting that reviewer after being very enthusiastic and recommending Bychkov live in Koln as best video recording fails to even acknowledge existence of his superb Philips studio recording with Orchestre d'Paris.

How many different Svetlanov recordings are there? Six?

[Frank Berger]

Should that be August 13, *1946*? That's what the liner notes for Music
& Arts 769 says. It's the NYPO at the Hollywood Bowl.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:cce89912-2de6-4724...@googlegroups.com...

====================

I don't know? Is there a complete Svetlanov or Rachmaninov discography
somewhere?

Anyhow, the list of that reviewer is far from complete.
OTTOMH I'm missing recordings by Edo de Waart (on Exton), Kitaenko
(Melodiya), Gunzenhauser (Naxos), Fedoseyev.

[RiRiIII]

Also Mitropoulos in Minneapolis (RCA LM 1068) rec. 19 & 20 January 1947.

[RiRiIII]

You are right about the year; however the orchestra is the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra. The other recording on this disc is with the NYP(S)O (Prokofiev, PC3, Kappell, 20 Feb 49).

[Frank Berger]

I'll probably never get all the errors out of my database. Thanks for
the correction.

[John Wiser]

"RiRiIII" <alex_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a79c148f-8e09-4300...@googlegroups.com...

...which was my imprint version, still vividly recalled, clotted sound and all.
I had it first on 78s, only later found the LP. Has it ever appeared on CD?
That led in the short run to investigation of local library holdings, which included
a Brunswick set of the Cleveland Orchestra under Nikolai Sokolov (gritty and
distant, but with more thrust and audible detail than the vaunted Golovanon) and
a Columbia set whose details are now completely wiped (Rodzinski?). For
modern recordings, I have kept on hand only the first Previn and RPO/
Temirkanov. The impulse to rehear either one hasn't visited in years. .

jdw

[RiRiIII]

Yes, the Mitropoulos Minneapolis recording was issued by Nickson Records as well as by various italian labels. AS DISC had issued a late broadcast recording with the NYPO.

[RiRiIII]

can be found here: http://lincoonnn.blogspot.gr/2015/03/no-2-rachmaninoff-symphony-no-2.html

[sunn...@gmail.com]

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/riccardo-chailly-extends-contract-with-gewandhausorchester-leipzig

"The Gewandhausorchester will release the symphonies of Brahms on Decca Classics in September. This will be followed in 2015 by the release of the complete symphonies of Rachmaninov."

[francis]

> That led in the short run to investigation of local library holdings, which included
> a Brunswick set of the Cleveland Orchestra under Nikolai Sokolov (gritty and
> distant, but with more thrust and audible detail than the vaunted Golovanon) and
> a Columbia set whose details are now completely wiped (Rodzinski?). For
> modern recordings, I have kept on hand only the first Previn and RPO/
> Temirkanov. The impulse to rehear either one hasn't visited in years. .
>
> jdw

The Sokoloff Rachmaninoff Second is the one recording about which can be definitively started--the composer approved these cuts--because the composer actively participated in the orchestra's preparation for the recording--making a special trip to Cleveland to do so. In fact, the Orchestra played the work through for an audience of two--Mr and Mrs Rachmaninoff--a week before the recording sessions. In the Library of Congress is a letter from the composer to Sokoloff praising the finished recording which the composer had heard played on the radio.
FC
PS-My own favorite is the Kletzki/Suisse Romande recording. Theirs of the 3rd Symphony is wonderful, too.

[Terry]

On Sunday, 15 March 2015 04:43:15 UTC+11, Gerard wrote:
> "Rachmaninov's Symphony No 2 - which recording is best?"

>
> A very nice overview/discography of this symphony by David Gutman on the
> website of Gramophone:
>
> http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/rachmaninov-symphony-no-2-which-recording-is-best

Slatkin in Detroit is excellent; so is Maazel with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.

[Gerard]

"Terry" wrote in message
news:017fedbf-94c1-4f5c...@googlegroups.com...

====================

How are Maazel's Symphonic Dances (by Rachmaninov)?

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 1:13:54 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:

> How are Maazel's Symphonic Dances (by Rachmaninov)?

Symphonic Dances? I thought that was your department.

Maazel is on YT, so you can tell us what you think. It is the version I "imprinted" on, and I do still feel attached to it. The playing is gorgeous, but the interpretation has a certain cool or dry aspect to it. The first movement for example, sounds exciting to me, but I hear it as a huge mechanical device churning its gears. It's not a dance, it's stamping out widgets. But the tender lyrical episodes are noble, eloquent, sensitive, only reserved if compared to heart-on-sleeve phrasing of, say, Kondrashin. And yes, Maazel does a fine waltz, as we know from his New Year's concerts.

Impressively played, and well recorded (yes, early digital, but nearly as bright and thin as that could mean back then). It's actually one of my favorite Maazel discs (coupled with the 3rd).

--Jeff

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:a2c10fa7-841f-4c16...@googlegroups.com...

=============================

Thanks.
Your copy probably is this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-Symphony-No-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B00000E4IT/

I was thinking of ordering this item:
http://www.amazon.com/Virtuoso-Rachmaninov-MAAZEL-BERLIN-PHIL-ORCH/dp/B0091HVN68/
(coupling with Isle of the Dead, and The Rock)
I'll give the YT item a listen (although my computer is not connected to my
stereo equipment, but I'll get an impression).

My department? ;-)
I like the piece very much, but I stil don't have all relevant or good
recordings. Yet I have 2 different ones by Kondrashin, and recently a new
one (to me) that got much praise in some reviews. I have to listen to it a
few more times.

I'm thinking which recordings I'm missing.
Maybe Vladimir Jurowski? Or is this as disappointing as said on
ClassicsToday?
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13711/
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13712/

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:a2c10fa7-841f-4c16...@googlegroups.com...

==================

On Youtube I only found the first movement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNp1uQ2aQJ8

But definitely worth buying.
Certainly cool. Maybe even cooler than Pletnev or Gardiner (both also on
DG).

[Terry]

I don't know, I'm afraid. The box of symphonies has only The Rock and The Isle of the Dead as fillers.

[jrsnfld]

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:56:54 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "jrsnfld" wrote in message

>
> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 1:13:54 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>
> > How are Maazel's Symphonic Dances (by Rachmaninov)?
>
> Symphonic Dances? I thought that was your department.
>
> Maazel is on YT, so you can tell us what you think. It is the version I
> "imprinted" on, and I do still feel attached to it. The playing is gorgeous,
> but the interpretation has a certain cool or dry aspect to it. The first
> movement for example, sounds exciting to me, but I hear it as a huge
> mechanical device churning its gears. It's not a dance, it's stamping out
> widgets. But the tender lyrical episodes are noble, eloquent, sensitive,
> only reserved if compared to heart-on-sleeve phrasing of, say, Kondrashin.
> And yes, Maazel does a fine waltz, as we know from his New Year's concerts.
>
> Impressively played, and well recorded (yes, early digital, but nearly as
> bright and thin as that could mean back then). It's actually one of my
> favorite Maazel discs (coupled with the 3rd).
> =============================
>
> Thanks.
> Your copy probably is this one:
> http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-Symphony-No-Symphonic-Dances/dp/B00000E4IT/

That's the disc I have now. Funny thing, now that I go back and look at the LP covers I realize that I had imprinted on Rach 3 with Maazel on LP, but not Symphonic Dances. That came later, after I had already heard Slatkin/SLSO (excellent!) on CD. The Slatkin disc was one of my first CD purchases.

I loved the LP covers from the Maazel Rachmaninoff.

>
> My department? ;-)
> I like the piece very much, but I stil don't have all relevant or good
> recordings. Yet I have 2 different ones by Kondrashin, and recently a new
> one (to me) that got much praise in some reviews. I have to listen to it a
> few more times.
>
> I'm thinking which recordings I'm missing.

Oue? Johanos? Both good, but I think neither is better than Slatkin or Zinman, two of my go-to recordings for many years, and of course there are those Kondrashin recordings that you already have. Maazel is overall very good.

> Maybe Vladimir Jurowski? Or is this as disappointing as said on
> ClassicsToday?

I should give that a try finally--keeps coming up here but I don't have the disc. Maybe YT....

--Jeff

[jrsnfld]

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 3:48:09 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "jrsnfld" wrote in message
>

I can't imagine Gardiner being worth the trouble, and Pletnev is too cool with the 2nd, so I never bought his Symphonic Dances. Maazel maybe somewhat clinical and cool but his wind soloists play warmly enough (a little flexibility there where necessary) too keep the recording from freezing over.

--Jeff

[lgan...@gmail.com]

And of course there is Ormandy/Philadelphia, the team for whom Rachmaninoff wrote the Symphonic Dances, who play the piece sumptuously.

Mark

[Ray Hall]

Ashkenazy has the work coupled to symphony No.3 on a single Decca CD. He
has the measure of this composer.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:cee0f187-a4fb-4503...@googlegroups.com...

That's the disc I have now. Funny thing, now that I go back and look at the
LP covers I realize that I had imprinted on Rach 3 with Maazel on LP, but
not Symphonic Dances. That came later, after I had already heard
Slatkin/SLSO (excellent!) on CD. The Slatkin disc was one of my first CD
purchases.

I loved the LP covers from the Maazel Rachmaninoff.

>
> My department? ;-)
> I like the piece very much, but I stil don't have all relevant or good
> recordings. Yet I have 2 different ones by Kondrashin, and recently a new
> one (to me) that got much praise in some reviews. I have to listen to it a
> few more times.
>
> I'm thinking which recordings I'm missing.

Oue? Johanos? Both good, but I think neither is better than Slatkin or
Zinman, two of my go-to recordings for many years, and of course there are
those Kondrashin recordings that you already have. Maazel is overall very
good.

> Maybe Vladimir Jurowski? Or is this as disappointing as said on
> ClassicsToday?

I should give that a try finally--keeps coming up here but I don't have the
disc. Maybe YT....

=================================

Probably I'll pass Jurowsky (unless it crosses my way for a Naxos price).
The only one "missing" here seems to be Slatkin. Generally I don't care much
for Slatkin.
OTOH I have his recent recording for Naxos. That's good.

I should give Johanos a relisten. Maybe soon.
I see that he gets a lot of praise here, but I cannot remember why he
deserves so.

[Gerard]

"Ray Hall" wrote in message news:megdpg$s3i$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

====================

Sure, he has.
I have his recording twice. The singe CD you've mentioned, and the box with
all symphonies (in which the Youth Symphony is missing !!!)

[cooper...@gmail.com]

There were two Johanos recordings that were famous primarily because they were considered to have demonstration-quality recorded sound for their time: Ives "Holidays" and the Symphonic Dances. There were superb CD issues of both from a company called Analogue Productions, distributed by Acoustic Sounds (http://store.acousticsounds.com/l/507/Analogue_Productions). The Ives is still available, and is an excellent performance well worth acquiring. The Rachmaninov was not in the same class, imo. There are a lot of recordings that I like (including several already named), but for overall excellence of both performance and recording, I'd recommend Jansons/St. Petersburg, which is available in an EMI bargain box or separately, c/w a terrific Symphony #3. I found Maazel's Sym #3 dry as dust and gave it way shortly after purchasing it--a rare case of my disagreeing with Jeff.

AC

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:a0b41835-fc57-44ef...@googlegroups.com...

==========================

Thanks.
Speaking of Jansons: how is his remake with the Concertgebouw Orchestra
(Amsterdam)?
(coupling: Stravinsky's Petrushka)

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:a0b41835-fc57-44ef...@googlegroups.com...

There were two Johanos recordings that were famous primarily because they
were considered to have demonstration-quality recorded sound for their time:
Ives "Holidays" and the Symphonic Dances. There were superb CD issues of
both from a company called Analogue Productions, distributed by Acoustic
Sounds (http://store.acousticsounds.com/l/507/Analogue_Productions). The
Ives is still available, and is an excellent performance well worth
acquiring. The Rachmaninov was not in the same class, imo.

================

Funny. I have both recordings in a VoxBox twofer (with music by Copland, and
with the piece by Ives split over 2 discs without any reason).
The sound of the Symphonic Dances is amazingly dry. There's no indication of
recording data. But it's hard to imagine that this was demontration-quality
recorded sound at any time (after 1955).
Is this VoxBox recording another recording than the one you've mentioned?

[John Wiser]

"Gerard" <ghendr-no...@live.nl> wrote:
>
> Probably I'll pass Jurowsky (unless it crosses my way for a Naxos price).

Jurowski deserves a pass. It's bloodless, if not anaemic.

[snip]

> I should give Johanos a relisten. Maybe soon.
> I see that he gets a lot of praise here, but I cannot remember why he
> deserves so.
>

He doesn't.

jdw

[lgan...@gmail.com]

The Dallas Symphony recordings in that VoxBox twofer were made in 1967 at SMU's McFarlin Auditorium, a notoriously dead room acoustically that has not been used by the Dallas Symphony for decades. In the late 1960s or early 1970s High Fidelity Magazine published an article listing, in the writer's opinion, the best recorded orchestral LPs on the market. The Vox Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances was on that list, as was the Bernstein Shostakovich 5th on Columbia. Those are the only two recordings I can remember from that list, and I no longer have the magazine. Perhaps someone with access to the High Fidelity archives can tell us which other recordings made the list, and the name of the article's author. I'm certain that much of the notoriety of the Vox/Dallas Symphonic Dances, at least as far as the recording quality is concerned, came from that article.

Mark

[cooper...@gmail.com]

Exactly as I remember it, but there was more. LP Pressings subsequent to the initial Turnabout release of the Johanos recordings were audibly inferior to the original issue, leading many purchasers to wonder what the fuss was about. I've never heard the VoxBox transfers, but was advised to avoid them and pick up the Analogue Productions releases instead, which I did. As I mentioned, the Ives/Copland is still available: http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/10697/Donald_Johanos-Copland_Fanfare_for_the_Comman_Man_Ives_Holidays_Symphony-CD. If anyone in the group happens to have both CD issues, I'd be curious to learn how they compare.

AC

[Ed Presson]

"John Wiser" wrote in message news:G%ZOw.51657$LZ1....@fx25.iad...

I concur.

Ed Presson

[Frank Berger]

The Janahos Symphonic Dances is available on SACD from Analogue:

http://tinyurl.com/l5padxc

Quoting their site:


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Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances And Vocalise (Johanos/Dallas Symphony
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[MickeyBoy]

> Exactly as I remember it, but there was more. LP Pressings subsequent to the initial Turnabout release of the Johanos recordings were audibly inferior to the original issue, leading many purchasers to wonder what the fuss was about.

> AC

I bought the lp on the glowing recommendation of Gordon Holt of Stereophile magazine and also wondered what the fuss was about. Must have been one of the inferior pressings.

MickeyBoy

[Ray Hall]

MickeyBoy wrote:

> I bought the lp on the glowing recommendation of Gordon Holt of

Stereophile magazine and also wondered what the fuss was about

. Must have been one of the inferior pressings.
>
> MickeyBoy
>

The Johanos recordings were mainly important because the repertoire was
attractive, it was available and not expensive, at the time (1965-75).
With the situation as we find now, the Johanos recordings serve as
merely a memory of that time.

They were certainly very serviceable, but have long been superceded by
other more recent recordings.

Ray Hall, Taree

[jrsnfld]

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 8:58:08 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> wrote in message

>

> Thanks.
> Speaking of Jansons: how is his remake with the Concertgebouw Orchestra
> (Amsterdam)?
> (coupling: Stravinsky's Petrushka)

Generally swift with a good feeling for the "dance" in the music (I would expect no less from a conductor who has given us great Dvorak), especially if you're comparing to Maazel! :-). Far from the latter's implacable mechanistic menace (which I reiterate is more about Maazel's rigid or calculated tutti passages and slightly harsh sound than about his tender soloists).

Splendid warm acoustic, the Concertgebouw and its orchestra in great form. What's not to like here? Missing only that last bit of opulent color and unabashed romanticism that Kondrashin will throw at you, free of charge. But Jansons (he's live here, thank goodness) is quite flexible enough.

I haven't tried to compare directly to Jansons' previous recording.

--Jeff

[Gerard]

"MickeyBoy" wrote in message
news:8b7c4f1c-8a12-48c2...@googlegroups.com...

===================

If the hall where the recording has been made was "a notoriously dead room
acoustically" (see post by Mark - lgan...@gmail.com), a better pressing
would not been any help.

A this moment I'm inclined to say that the Melodiya recording by Kondrashin
sounds better (than the VoxBox / Johanos disc I have).

[MiNe109]

I'm listening to the VoxBox on Spotify with headphones and find that
while the sound is quit dry, there's also a sense of presence and the
characteristic sounds of the instruments really come through. Maybe "you
are there" isn't to everyone's taste if "there" seems like a rehearsal
hall or a high school band room.

Stephen

[Ed Presson]

"MiNe109" wrote in message news:mejmts$ptt$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

I'm old enough to have bought the LP when it was new. I thought then that
it was an exceptional recording of an so-so performance in a really
bad hall. That opinion did not change as I improved my playback equipment
over the years.

Ed Presson

[m...@mesirowfinancial.com]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 2:37:33 PM UTC-5, RiRiIII wrote:
> If only Decca recorded Chailly and the Gewandhaus O - their all recent concert, broadcast live, was tremendous.

I was just thinking this yesterday after listening to the concert for the third time.

[jrsnfld]

I agree. It was superb, and indeed it looks like Decca is releasing all the Rachmaninoff symphonies with Chailly. He also recently broadcast the 3rd (with Berlin) which also served to increase my appetite for these recordings.

MTT/SF have broadcast the 2nd symphony several times in similarly superb performances. I did find a limited release CD made by the orchestra, but I wish they would go commercial with this repertoire. There was also really impressive Rach 2 from the Pittsburgh SO and Andris Nelsons. It was a bit more "straight" than Chailly's very flexible rubato, but maybe even more exciting and also brilliantly played. I could go for that on disc too!

-Jeff