Bruckner Symphony-Individual Recommendations
Richard Loeb
recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
advance
Richard
bzuk...@phillynews.com
4: Jochum/BPO/DG Originals
5: Jochum/Concertgebouw live 10/86 on Tahra or Karajan/BPO/DG
6: Celibidache/EMI
7: Karajan/either BPO/EMI or VPO/DG or Sanderling on Hannsler ($2.99 at
Berkshire)
8: Karajan/VPO.....for something faster and different: Matacic/NHK
9: Giulini/VPO
Barry
Eddie LeBaron
0 - Chailly/London
1 - Sawallisch/Orfeo
2 - Tintner/Naxos
3 - Tintner/Naxos
4 - Jochum/DG
5 - Haitnik/Phillips - VPO
6 - Klemperer/EMI
7 - Klemperer/EMI
8 - Karajan/DG - VPO
9 - Walter/Sony
EL
Vaneyes
3, 5, 6 - Barenboim (Elatus)
4 - Klemperer (EMI)
7 - Klemperer (EMI)
8 - Jochum (DG)
9 - Walter (Sony)
Regards
Richard Schultz
:
: 9: Giulini/VPO
You misspelled "Schuricht." Hope this helps!
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It never seems to occur to people that a man might just want to write
a piece of music."
-R. Vaughan Williams
Paul Goldstein
>
>Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
>recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
>advance
Skrowaczewski on Arte Nova is a strong recommendation for any and all of the
Bruckner symphonies. Can't get much cheaper than that.
Tintner's Naxos recording of the original 3rd is also a standout that would be a
top recommendation at any price.
bzuk...@phillynews.com
Richard Schultz wrote:
> In article <1129735062.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bzuk...@phillynews.com wrote:
> :
>
> : 9: Giulini/VPO
>
> You misspelled "Schuricht." Hope this helps!
>
>
> -----
> Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Spelling has never been my strong point, but I think I got this one
right. Actually, I've never heard the Schuricht ninth, but I have heard
his VPO fifth and eighth and I'm afraid they didn't make a very good
impression on me. I know I'm probably an exception in that Schuricht's
Bruckner is hugely popular on the various boards I post on. But hey,
viva la difference. When it comes to that more ugent style of Bruckner,
I've found that I prefer Matacic. But in general, I prefer my Bruckner
more expansive (with the fourth symphony being an exception to that
rule.....thus my selection of Jochum/BPO).
Barry
Vincent Ventrone
> the
> Bruckner symphonies. Can't get much cheaper than that.
Heartily seconded -- it *is* a cycle, and the original posting was asking
about individual recommendations. But I have found that for every symphony
in the cycle, the Skrowaczewski was always the best, or very nearly so, and
my collection includes a lot of classics by Furtwangler, Schuricht, et. al.
Simon Roberts
>recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
>advance
A few favorites in no particular order and not at all complete (doubtless
forgetting some):
3: Rosbaud/Arkadia
5: Welser-Moest/EMI, Barenboim/Teldec, Abbado/DG, Furtwangler/DG,
Harnoncourt/RCA
7: Celibidache/EMI, Skrowaczewski/Arte Nova
8: Celibidache/EMI, Giulini/DG, Van Beinum/Philips, Paita/Lodia, Boulez/DG
9: Giulini/DG, Furtwangler/DG, Kabasta, Haitink/Philips(1981), Harnoncourt/RCA
(In case you're wondering why some are omitted, my favorite 1 is stuck in a box
(Jochum/EMI), I've never compared recordings of 2, don't care for 4 any more,
and don't much like 6 except for the slow movement, where Celibidache/EMI seems
good enough to discourage making comparisons.)
Simon
Raymond Hall
news:Lbydnd_kSNk...@giganews.com...
> Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
> recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
> advance
0 - Tintner/Naxos
1 - Skro/Arte Nova
2 - Tintner/Naxos
3 - Tintner/Naxos
4 - Böhm/Decca Legends, Walter/Sony
5 - Jochum/EMI, Celi/Munich PO (video)
6 - Tintner/Naxos, Klemperer/EMI
7 - Rosbaud/Vox
8 - Karajan/DG (1988 VPO)
9 - Walter/Sony
Ray H
Taree
Paul Ilechko
1 - Jochum/EMI
2 - Jochum/EMI
3 - Tintner/Naxos
4 - Tintner/Naxos
5 - Wand/RCA
6 - Klemperer/EMI
7 - Klemperer/EMI
8 - Jochum/EMI
9 - Jochum/EMI
Bob Harper
> In article <Lbydnd_kSNk...@giganews.com>, Richard Loeb says...
>
>>Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
>>recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
>>advance
>
>
> Skrowaczewski on Arte Nova is a strong recommendation for any and all of the
> Bruckner symphonies. Can't get much cheaper than that.
Strongly seconded, except that they're now on Oehms and a bit more
expensive.
>
> Tintner's Naxos recording of the original 3rd is also a standout that would be a
> top recommendation at any price.
As is his original 2nd. For the Nowak 2nd, Giulini on Testament.
>
4 and 6: Celibidache, Munich.
7: Haitink (1978) if you can find it, or the previously mentioned
Sanderling on Haenssler. Or Wand/BPO.
8: van Beinum, though it's (good) mono. Wand/NDR
9: Haitink (1981). Might be Haitink's greatest record.
Bob Harper
Dave Cook
> Paul Goldstein wrote:
>> Skrowaczewski on Arte Nova is a strong recommendation for any and all of the
>> Bruckner symphonies. Can't get much cheaper than that.
> Strongly seconded, except that they're now on Oehms and a bit more
> expensive.
Walmart, of all places, claims to have some of the original Arte Novas, and
some places are claiming to sell the Oehms issues at competitive prices
(well, you often don't know until you try how accurate some of these online
retailers are about their inventory).
Dave Cook
Sol Siegel
"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote...
> Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
> recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
> advance
F minor "Study-Symphony": Skrowaczewski (now on Oehms) comes
closest to making this sound like music, and includes the Overture
in G minor.
"Die Nullte" (No. 0): Tintner, actually a makeweight for his 2-CD set
of the 1887 version of the 8th. Together, this makes this essential
for the dedicated Bruckner lover.
1: Sawallisch (Orfeo). Expensive, alas. Tintner is also fine.
2: Giulini (Testament). Expensive, alas. Tintner is also fine, unless you
object to having the scherzo before the Adagio.
3: Wildner's 2-disc Naxos set of the 1878 and 1889 versions.
4: Karajan/EMI, just so long as it isn't the old Studio Series issue.
Now cheap on Encore. Congested sound, majestic peformance.
5: Horenstein on BBC. Skrowaczewski is a good cheaper alternative.
6: Klemperer/EMI, the usual suspect. Skrowaczewski is a good
cheaper alternative.
7: With the cymbal crash: Karajan/Vienna PO/DG. Skrowaczewski
is a good cheaper alternative. Without the cymbal crash:
Rosbaud, Tintner, or Sanderling/Hanssler (more dramatic than
usual for that version of the symphony).
8: Skrowaczewski, now the only work on two Oehms discs, isn't
cheap any more. But you need a "standard", i.e. 1890, 8th,
and they don't come much better than this. Szell is pretty good,
though.
9. Am I the only one who likes Barenboim/Berlin? It's the only one
that seems to leave us hanging at the edge of eternity, rather than
playing the Adagio (however effectively) as a finale. I also love
E. Jochum/DG, Furtwangler, Giulini/VPO, and Wildner (more
for the standard three movements, played with elemental
violence, than its reconstituted finale).
Michael Schaffer
Sol Siegel wrote:
> "Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote...
>
> > Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
> > recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
> > advance
>
> F minor "Study-Symphony": Skrowaczewski (now on Oehms) comes
> closest to making this sound like music, and includes the Overture
> in G minor.
> "Die Nullte" (No. 0): Tintner, actually a makeweight for his 2-CD set
> of the 1887 version of the 8th. Together, this makes this essential
> for the dedicated Bruckner lover.
> 1: Sawallisch (Orfeo). Expensive, alas. Tintner is also fine.
> 2: Giulini (Testament). Expensive, alas. Tintner is also fine, unless you
> object to having the scherzo before the Adagio.
> 3: Wildner's 2-disc Naxos set of the 1878 and 1889 versions.
> 4: Karajan/EMI, just so long as it isn't the old Studio Series issue.
> Now cheap on Encore. Congested sound, majestic peformance.
I am surprised to read that. I think that EMI recording sounds
excellent. I actually often cite it as an example of a natural
sounding, well balanced, non-glaring recording of the BP under HvK,
unlike many of the DG recordings which suffer from what I would call
congested, artificially balanced and often unnaturally glaring sound.
The EMI recording reflects quite well what they actually sounded like
live under him.
> 5: Horenstein on BBC. Skrowaczewski is a good cheaper alternative.
The 5th on DG is one of the rather rare examples of a similarly
successful (I mean, sound wise) recording of BP/HvK- A performance of
Alpine dimensions, caught in very good sound. Did the basses really
sound that big live, like bass bells? Yes they did. Did the brass
really produce such a gigantic sound? Again, yes.
> 6: Klemperer/EMI, the usual suspect. Skrowaczewski is a good
> cheaper alternative.
> 7: With the cymbal crash: Karajan/Vienna PO/DG. Skrowaczewski
> is a good cheaper alternative. Without the cymbal crash:
> Rosbaud, Tintner, or Sanderling/Hanssler (more dramatic than
> usual for that version of the symphony).
> 8: Skrowaczewski, now the only work on two Oehms discs, isn't
> cheap any more. But you need a "standard", i.e. 1890, 8th,
> and they don't come much better than this. Szell is pretty good,
> though.
> 9. Am I the only one who likes Barenboim/Berlin?
Apparently. I find most of the BP/Barenboim recordings I heard too
general, too undetailed, too much smoke and too little flame. Very nice
orchestral sound (I also heard several of these performances, including
the 9th live), but IMO not much else. It is kind of hard to really like
Barenboim when I have heard the 9th with the same orchestra under HvK,
Giulini, and Wand.
Brendan R. Wehrung
The 8th was with somebody else, and named the "apocalyptic."
I skipped it. Should I be looking for it?
Brendan
--
david...@aol.com
If you're only now exploring Bruckner, start with the last three
symphonies. They really do exhibit a level of mastery not found in the
earlier symphonies.
7th
Rosbaud, Steinberg, Von Matacic
Steinberg's the dark horse here, of course, but I'm too tired to
attempt a description of his performance. I'm waiting for Jeff to
write something eloquent about Von Matacic's late Bruckner.
8th
Knappertsbusch/Munich; Van Beinum; Boulez, Von Matacic
I'm the only person on the planet who likes this Knappertsbusch
performance, but it includes a performance of the slow movement that I
think is one of the greatest performances of anything I've ever heard.
9th
The only recordings I really know well are two live Boulez
performances, one with the VPO, one with the CSO, neither readily
available anywhere.
-david gable
Dave Cook
>>> Paul Goldstein wrote:
>>>> Skrowaczewski on Arte Nova is a strong recommendation
> The 8th was with somebody else, and named the "apocalyptic."
Where was this?
The Skrow 8th does use this nickname for the symphony.
Dave Cook
sle...@online.no
No.0: Munch (Kempe)
No.1: Toscanini (Ivanov)
No.2: E.Kleiber (Dorati)
No.3: Reiner (Scherchen)
No.4: Beecham (Rodzinski)
No.5: Ansermet* (Cantelli)
No.6: Bernstein (C.Kleiber)
No.7: Markevitch (Mitropolous)
No.8: Koussewitzky (Boult)
No.9: Stokowsky (Boskowsky)
* I had some doubt about including this.
Nick Sun
still found I have more Bruckner on my shelf than our local CD store!
:-)
jrs...@aol.com
david...@aol.com wrote:
> If you're only now exploring Bruckner, start with the last three
> symphonies. They really do exhibit a level of mastery not found in the
> earlier symphonies.
>
> 7th
>
> Rosbaud, Steinberg, Von Matacic
>
> Steinberg's the dark horse here, of course, but I'm too tired to
> attempt a description of his performance. I'm waiting for Jeff to
> write something eloquent about Von Matacic's late Bruckner.
>
Not today. I'm flattered, but much as I love von Matacic's Bruckner,
eloquence is beyond me today. I'm wiped out between work all day and
playing an evening rehearsal, and staying up nights tending the new
member of the family. Choosing favorites takes too much mental acuity,
and for some reason I can't recall a single favorite Bruckner recording
today for any of the symphonies. So I did listen to a slam-bang Mahler
5:i while driving that jolted me awake temporarily.
I vaguely remember that Knappertsbusch and Rosbaud are two of my
longtime favorite 7th's, and I'm enjoying Giulini/BPO and Wand/BPO
these days, even if the sound on Memories cannot make these prime
choices. If I recall anything about the CPO/Matacic, it is the rhythmic
vitality, mahoganied tone, and old-world rounded graciousness of the
Czech Phil--Bruckner of supreme warmth but also requisite power and
sensible tempi because Matacic never fails to provide either.
Still sitting on my "to-listen" shelf (floor, actually) is the live
Matacic Bruckner 8 on Living Stage.
--Jeff
Steven de Mena
<sle...@online.no> wrote in message
news:1129787358.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> My favorites. Second choice in parenthesis.
>
Carlos Kleiber performed Bruckner??!
Steve
Curtis Croulet
No. 2 as a starting point rather than the late symphonies or even the
ubiquitous Fourth. The Second is not too long, and it's as tuneful as any
of them. For a beginner I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about
versions, although you should know that the 1873 Third, 1874 Fourth and 1887
Eighth are rarely performed and are significantly different from their
better known counterparts. Really, they are different symphonies. Anyway,
if you like Bruckner, there's plenty of time ahead of you to puzzle out the
versions. Most of the recommendations posted here are worthy performances,
but I've never understood the acclaim for Karajan's 1988 VPO Eighth, which
totally misses the boat IMHO, as did his earlier BPO recording. I haven't
heard his 1950s EMI recording. I have a very personal fondness for
Tintner's Ninth on Naxos.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
jrs...@aol.com
Simon Roberts wrote:
> 8: Celibidache/EMI, Giulini/DG, Van Beinum/Philips, Paita/Lodia, Boulez/DG
Ah yes, just a week or so later and I'd almost forgotten about Mr.
Paita again. Wonderful disc--a performance to end all performances (or
at least, the orchestra sounds like it is playing for its life--typical
edge-of-the-seat Paita.
> (In case you're wondering why some are omitted, my favorite 1 is stuck in a box
> (Jochum/EMI), I've never compared recordings of 2, don't care for 4 any more,
> and don't much like 6 except for the slow movement, where Celibidache/EMI seems
> good enough to discourage making comparisons.)
If we're not interested in all of the 6th Symphony, then my favorite
would have to be the Furtwangler, which is as good as anything he ever
did, but is, alas a headless horseman (no first movement). Otherwise,
my favorite 6 on CD may be Skrowaczewski and my favorite not on CD is
probably the Barenboim/DG, but that's also a sentimental thing for me.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
In case anyone hasn't noticed yet, that's a Beethoven favorites list,
not a Bruckner list. I have no idea what the 0 stands for....Haydn 104?
Maybe someone's database is messed up.
--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
in news:1129787358.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Har har. But isn't there an actual Bernstein 6th in one of the New York
Philharmonic broadcast boxes?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Steven de Mena
<jrs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129790849....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Steven de Mena wrote:
>> <sle...@online.no> wrote in message
>> news:1129787358.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > My favorites. Second choice in parenthesis.
>> >
>> > No.6: Bernstein (C.Kleiber)
>>
>> Carlos Kleiber performed Bruckner??!
>>
>> Steve
>
> In case anyone hasn't noticed yet, that's a Beethoven favorites list,
> not a Bruckner list. I have no idea what the 0 stands for....Haydn 104?
I wondered if it was a Beethoven list, but the "0" confused me....
Steve
jrs...@aol.com
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> sle...@online.no appears to have caused the following letters to be typed
> in news:1129787358.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > My favorites. Second choice in parenthesis.
> >
> > No.0: Munch (Kempe)
> > No.1: Toscanini (Ivanov)
> > No.2: E.Kleiber (Dorati)
> > No.3: Reiner (Scherchen)
> > No.4: Beecham (Rodzinski)
> > No.5: Ansermet* (Cantelli)
> > No.6: Bernstein (C.Kleiber)
> > No.7: Markevitch (Mitropolous)
> > No.8: Koussewitzky (Boult)
> > No.9: Stokowsky (Boskowsky)
> >
> >
> > * I had some doubt about including this.
>
> Har har. But isn't there an actual Bernstein 6th in one of the New York
> Philharmonic broadcast boxes?
Yep. It's pretty good. Koussy, of course, actually did do a Bruckner 8
that once circulated on AS Disc. And Munch conducted a heavily edited
version of the 7th. And Toscanini's 7...that's your department. Kempe's
is a fine Brucknerian--the best of this lot--IMHO.
--Jeff
sle...@online.no
I will have to rewrite the list, and perhaps include the No.00 (die
Doppelnullte) also.
Thank you!
Eric Nagamine
> Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
> recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
> advance
>
>
>
2: Stein/Vienna Decca
4: Bohm/Vienna Decca
5: Furtwangler/Berlin M&A or Horenstein/NPO BBC legends
6: Dohnanyi/Cleveland Decca
7: Chailly/Berlin Radio Decca
8: Karajan/Vienna DG
9: Walter/Columbia SO Sony
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/mahlerb/broadcaststartpage.html
Lasse
4-Böhm, Wien
5-Thielemann, München
6-Celibidache, München
7-Furtwängler, Berlin (1949)
8-Boulez, Wien
9-Furtwängler, Berlin (1944)
and Harnoncourt's 5,7 & 9 should also be on the list.
r/l
Michael Schaffer
Curtis Croulet wrote:
> For an absolute beginner to Bruckner, I'd be inclined to suggest Symphony
> No. 2 as a starting point rather than the late symphonies or even the
> ubiquitous Fourth. The Second is not too long, and it's as tuneful as any
> of them. For a beginner I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about
> versions, although you should know that the 1873 Third, 1874 Fourth and 1887
> Eighth are rarely performed and are significantly different from their
> better known counterparts. Really, they are different symphonies. Anyway,
> if you like Bruckner, there's plenty of time ahead of you to puzzle out the
> versions. Most of the recommendations posted here are worthy performances,
> but I've never understood the acclaim for Karajan's 1988 VPO Eighth, which
> totally misses the boat IMHO, as did his earlier BPO recording. I haven't
> heard his 1950s EMI recording.
Doesn't it make you think when so many knowledgeable collectors
recommend this recording? I persoanlly prefer the Giulini recording
with the same orchestra, but the Karajan recording is a magnificent
performance.
jony...@earthlink.net
Add Gielen on Intercord, if you can find it.
> 9. Am I the only one who likes Barenboim/Berlin?
No. I like it too. Stayed away from it for a long time because I
thought, "Oh, Baremboim?" Nice surprise when I finally heard it, for
the reason you mention below and his general handling of the other two
movements.
> It's the only one
> that seems to leave us hanging at the edge of eternity, rather than
> playing the Adagio (however effectively) as a finale. I also love
> E. Jochum/DG, Furtwangler, Giulini/VPO, and Wildner (more
> for the standard three movements, played with elemental
> violence, than its reconstituted finale).
The reconstruction on the Wildner doesn't work for me either, however
"authentic" it might be from Samale & Co. reportedly finding the
manuscript page that has the final chord for the piece. The original
Smaale/Mazucca finale on the Inbal recording was a more effective
closer.
Robert Simpson supposedly wrote a piano version of a finale (though he
said the 9th couldn't be completed because there was no coda). Wonder
if anyone's thought about orchestrating it?
jy
Michael Schaffer
Even though my opinion of Barenboim's Bruckner wasn't very high so far,
I am tempted to revisit it since I saw that the complete Berlin cycle
is now available in Europe for less than 25 Euro(!). Apparently that
box hasn't been released in the US yet. His Berlin Beethoven cycle goes
for even less than $20.
Michael Schaffer
Bruckner recordings by Günter Wand.
Every Bruckner recording of his I have heard (in addition to a number
of live concerts) was on the very highest level. Informed and at the
same time soulful music making, learned but with a deep feeling into
the mysteries behind the notes.
I could easily draw up a list of favorites just from Wand albums.
But I also like many others, among them Karl Böhm who hasn't been
mentioned much either.
I also love Sinopoli's recordings (3-5,6-9) with the Staatskapelle
Dresden, Blomstedt's 4 and 7, Dohnanyi's 3-9 with Cleveland (the 7th in
particular), some of Karajan's, especially the 4th and 7th on EMI and
the 3rd and 5th on DG.
The crowning achievement in Bruckner interpretation on record for me is
Giulini's recordings of 7-9 with the WP.
Plus the marvelous 9th with Kubelik/SOBR.
RX-01
2 - Tintner
3 - Tintner
4 - Haitink/VPO or Boehm/VPO for mid-price
5 - Thielemann/Dresden or Harnoncourt/VPO - these are 2 very different
interpetations with Thielemann having powerfull brass and creating a
lot of noise with slow tempi (very similar to the Celibidache 5th with
Dresden, also excellent), and Harnoncourt having swift tempi and a
lighter approach. His 2nd movenement might be too fast for some and the
strings play with limited vibrato.
6 - Blomstedt/San Francisco (maybe OOP) or Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken
for budget-price.
7 - None so far. My top two choices would have been either
Jochum/Dresden or Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken. Both are marred by a very
weak cymbal clash. IMO if the cymbal clashed is included it should at
least be more audible and create more effect. If you don't mind that,
then both Jochum and Skrow. are great. Othewise the Karajan/BPO on
EMI's Karajan Series is really outstanding, very atmospheric and with
the most powerful brass outbreaks I've heard in any recordings of this
symphony. The climax in the 2nd movement is also overwhelming and the
string playing is just gorgeous. It's also mid-priced.
8 - Boulez/VPO or Skrowaczewski/Saarbrucken for mid-price. Also the
Boehm/VPO is budget-priced and quite similar to the Boulez. All three
are recorded in excellent sound.
9 - The Wildner on Naxos is excellent, the best performance of the
whole symphony. If you wish to buy the unfinished 9th then
Barenboim/Teldec is great. However, one has to bear in mind that
Bruckner's wish was that the Te Deum should be played after the slow
movement since he didn't complete the last movement. The reconstructed
version by Cohrs et al is deeply satisfying and very well performed by
Wildner. It's in fact the only reconstructed symphony that convinces me
that it's closer to what the composer had in mind (that and the
Elgar/Payne 3rd to a lesser extent even though Elgard didn't wish for
his symphony to be reconstructed).
RX-01
Michael Schaffer
RX-01 wrote:
> 1 - Tintner
> 2 - Tintner
> 3 - Tintner
> 4 - Haitink/VPO or Boehm/VPO for mid-price
> 5 - Thielemann/Dresden or Harnoncourt/VPO - these are 2 very different
> interpetations with Thielemann having powerfull brass and creating a
> lot of noise with slow tempi (very similar to the Celibidache 5th with
> Dresden, also excellent),
Dresden?
Bob Harper
points up the fact that we are overflowing with wonderful Bruckner
recordings today, a situation unimaginable not that many years ago.
Bob Harper
Curtis Croulet
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59" N, 117° 05' 53" W
"Michael Schaffer" <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129796179.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Matthew B. Tepper
news:1129793203.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
>> Har har. But isn't there an actual Bernstein 6th in one of the New York
>> Philharmonic broadcast boxes?
>
> Yep. It's pretty good. Koussy, of course, actually did do a Bruckner 8
> that once circulated on AS Disc. And Munch conducted a heavily edited
> version of the 7th. And Toscanini's 7...that's your department. Kempe's
> is a fine Brucknerian--the best of this lot--IMHO.
If memory serves, Koussevitzky's 8th was itself heavily edited in order to
fit the radio broadcast time slot.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:FN-dnWXzZ4i...@comcast.com:
><jrs...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1129790849....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Steven de Mena wrote:
>>> <sle...@online.no> wrote in message
>>> news:1129787358.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>> > My favorites. Second choice in parenthesis.
>>> >
>>> > No.6: Bernstein (C.Kleiber)
>>>
>>> Carlos Kleiber performed Bruckner??!
>>
>> In case anyone hasn't noticed yet, that's a Beethoven favorites list,
>> not a Bruckner list. I have no idea what the 0 stands for....Haydn 104?
>
> I wondered if it was a Beethoven list, but the "0" confused me....
Friedrich Witt's "Jena" Symphony? ;--)
Curtis Croulet
slightly varied adagios. I think Bruckner expected the symphony to have more
variety. Even other conductors who adopt a similarly glacial tempo for the
first movement pick it up in the scherzo. It doesn't help that Karajan uses the
corrupt Haas edition, but, of course, he's scarcely alone in that respect. It's
appalling that so many young conductors choose it. But the Haas score and parts
are out-of-copyright, and that's a factor in some situations. One thing Fluffy
does right here: he's closer than most to the proper tempos in the finale.
Michael Schaffer
To be honest, I am not really interested in the tempo choices. There
are so many ways and tempo concepts which can all be justified or
rejected. What I am mostly interested in is if the performance does
justice to the substance of the music, if the music making is inspired
and attentive, if there are special moments etc. The level of music
making in that recording is extremely high.
Some people feel very strongly about using the Haas edition. I once had
the opportunity to ask Günter Wand about it, and he almost got really
angry and said that it was obvious that the parts Haas reinstated were
only cut by Bruckner under pressure. He said that who didn't see that
didn't understand Bruckner. I wouldn't go quite as far - after all, my
hero Giulini uses the Nowak edition -, but he did have a point.
andyja...@yahoo.com
Concerning your supposition that Simpson wrote a piano version of the
finale of Bruckner's 9th, I would be very interested to know if this
existed, please elaborate.
All the best
Andy Jackson
Curtis Croulet
thinking when he prepared his edition, since he never prepared a critical
report. But a possible consideration was that the 1892 First Edition had fallen
into public domain. To regain copyright, he had to create something different,
and he had to justify his changes. Thus the "under pressure" myth was invented
to justify his reinsertions of 1887 passages into the 1890 manuscript.
> The level of music making in that recording is extremely high.
I'm not an HvK hater. I like his Beethoven. But -- well, I've already given my
opinion of his Bruckner Eighth. It lacks light and variety, which I think are
part of this music as much as solemnity.
Paul Goldstein
>
>
>Dave Cook (dave...@nowhere.net) writes:
>> On 2005-10-20, Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Paul Goldstein wrote:
>>>>Skrowaczewski on Arte Nova is a strong recommendation for any and all of the
>>>> Bruckner symphonies. Can't get much cheaper than that.
>>
>>> Strongly seconded, except that they're now on Oehms and a bit more
>>> expensive.
>>
>> Walmart, of all places, claims to have some of the original Arte Novas, and
>> some places are claiming to sell the Oehms issues at competitive prices
>> (well, you often don't know until you try how accurate some of these online
>> retailers are about their inventory).
>>
>> http://alnk.org/wisecabin
>>
>> Dave Cook
>
>
>The 8th was with somebody else, and named the "apocalyptic."
>I skipped it. Should I be looking for it?
No, it was Skro, and IMO it's one of the greatest 8ths I've ever heard.
Paul Goldstein
sle...@online.no says...
>
>My favorites. Second choice in parenthesis.
>
>No.1: Toscanini (Ivanov)
>No.2: E.Kleiber (Dorati)
>No.3: Reiner (Scherchen)
>No.4: Beecham (Rodzinski)
>No.5: Ansermet* (Cantelli)
>No.6: Bernstein (C.Kleiber)
>No.7: Markevitch (Mitropolous)
>No.8: Koussewitzky (Boult)
>No.9: Stokowsky (Boskowsky)
LOL.
RX-01
RX-01
jrs...@aol.com
Michael Schaffer wrote:
> Strange. So many posts, but no one mentioned the many outstanding
> Bruckner recordings by Günter Wand.
That's not entirely true: I mentioned his Berlin 7th earlier as a
particularly fine performance. Someone else reiterated the
recommendation.
> Every Bruckner recording of his I have heard (in addition to a number
> of live concerts) was on the very highest level. Informed and at the
> same time soulful music making, learned but with a deep feeling into
> the mysteries behind the notes.
> I could easily draw up a list of favorites just from Wand albums.
> But I also like many others, among them Karl Böhm who hasn't been
> mentioned much either.
Bohm's 4 is mentioned frequently, but his 3 and 8 are also worthy.
> I also love Sinopoli's recordings (3-5,6-9) with the Staatskapelle
> Dresden, Blomstedt's 4 and 7, Dohnanyi's 3-9 with Cleveland (the 7th in
> particular), some of Karajan's, especially the 4th and 7th on EMI and
> the 3rd and 5th on DG.
Of these, I admire Sinopoli, but I think Dohnanyi is the stronger
Brucknerian overall and I think I prefer the sonics of the Cleveland
recordings, not to mention the orchestra, though one could hardly
complain either way. I'd really like to hear a live Dohnanyi
Bruckner--that would likely be even better.
> The crowning achievement in Bruckner interpretation on record for me is
> Giulini's recordings of 7-9 with the WP.
You've never mentioned Giulini's 2 (now on Testament). What do you
think of it? As I've said before, Giulini's broadcasts with Chicago,
even more than his WP or BP versions, are for me the crowning
achievements of his Bruckneriana.
For me it is either Schuricht's collected discography or perhaps...see
below.
> Plus the marvelous 9th with Kubelik/SOBR.
Kubelik also did a marvelous 8th. He wasn't quite as strong in 3 and 4,
on Sony, but those are also excellent and there are other 3s and 4s, on
shady labels, that show Kubelik's affinity for these works even more
persuasively. Of course, Kubelik's 6 is quite fine too--both of the
performances I've heard, though my preference is for the one issued by
the Chicago Symphony.
Did he not conduct 5 or 7?
I'm waiting for more comment on one truly ignored figure in this
thread...T. Asahina. Now, if people are plunking down $30 per for the
experience, surely he is the best. Where are Henry F. and Michael W. to
crown Asahina our Bruckners Without Budgets champion?
Actually, if anyone has been ignored, in my opinion, it is Furtwangler.
Far too few mentions of his work; he offers exactly the kind of wake-up
call to Bruckner that would spur anyone to go nuts finding a modern
equivalent (drum roll again for Paita). And though Klemperer has gotten
some mention, I think of him as a nearly perfect Brucknerian, even in
his EMI recordings. The live Bruckner that has been released (some now
on Testament? also Tahra or Music and Arts?) exert a magnetic pull into
the special world of Bruckner. Giulini exudes the Brucknerian wisdom
Klemps the penetrating Brucknerian intelligence. If Bruckner were
religious dogma, Furtwangler wrested it from on high, Klemperer is the
apostle who revealed and preached its truths, and Giulini celebrated it
with the converted. With Giulini, you are already saved, from the first
note; not so with the others. Somehow I sense Schuricht and Matacic
were each all three in one, but that's another matter and already Lena
is breaking out into hives over this nontechnical gibberish.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
Michael Schaffer wrote:
> Sol Siegel wrote:
> > 9. Am I the only one who likes Barenboim/Berlin?
>
> Apparently. I find most of the BP/Barenboim recordings I heard too
> general, too undetailed, too much smoke and too little flame. Very nice
> orchestral sound (I also heard several of these performances, including
> the 9th live), but IMO not much else. It is kind of hard to really like
> Barenboim when I have heard the 9th with the same orchestra under HvK,
> Giulini, and Wand.
Exactly. I do like Barenboim's Berlin Bruckner (I've heard just a
sampling), but I value the earlier cycle he did more because it is all
flame and no smoke.
--Jeff
Vaneyes
Sol Siegel wrote:
> 4: Karajan/EMI, just so long as it isn't the old Studio Series issue.
> Now cheap on Encore. Congested sound, majestic peformance.
The Studio series recording was used for the Encore.
There is some sound improvement in the OOP Karajan Edition and current
Karajan Collection reissues (ART remastering)...
http://www.emiclassics.com/karajancollection/product/bruckner_symphony4.htm
Regards
rkhalona
(subject to change at any time :-)
00. Tintner (Naxos)
0. Haitink/COA (Philips)
1. G. L. Jochum (in the Tahra box; for me no one comes close)
2. Giulini/VSO (Testament)
3. Tie betweeen Schuricht/VPO (EMI & Preiser) and Tintner (Naxos; note
this is the 1873 original version)
4. Klemperer/Concertgebouw (Tahra and Concertgebouw box; It will make
you hear a hackneyed work with new ears!)
5. Jochum/Dresden (EMI)
6. Celibidache/Munich (EMI)
7. Jochum/BPO (mono on Tahra)
8. Haitink/VPO (Philips)
9. Tie between Schuricht/VPO (EMI) and Jochum/BPO (DG)
Honorable mention: Furtwaengler (there is only one; as cataclysmic as a
B9 can get)
RK
Simon Roberts
jrs...@aol.com says...
>I'm waiting for more comment on one truly ignored figure in this
>thread...T. Asahina. Now, if people are plunking down $30 per for the
>experience, surely he is the best.
Well, you get what you pay for....
I dare say this isn't the sort of comment that you've been waiting for, but
aside from the fantastic recorded sound I heard nothing praiseworthy in the few
Canyon discs I've bought (and not kept), including a 7th that made me lose
patience right at the very beginning, barging in as iot did at a volume not much
less than forte. (I can't remember which of his 237 recordings of 7, 8 and 9 I
heard.) A few years ago a friend sent me an unidentified cd-r of a live
Bruckner 9 asking for my comments. I found nothing to like and complained about
the scrappy playing; turned out to be Asahina/Chicago....
Simon
rkhalona
must say that the box that JVC put together a few years ago is
excellent. These date from the 70s/80s when his tempi hadn't become as
broad as they did towards the end.
Well worth the price.
RK
David Fox
5: Jochum/Dresden (EMI), Sinopoli/Dresden (DG)
6: Celibidache/MPO (EMI), Klemperer/EMI
7: Klemperer/EMI, Skro/Arte Nova
8: Giulini/VPO (DG), Skro/Arte Nova
9: Furtwangler, Walter/CSO (Sony), Giulini/VPO (DG)
DF
Juan I. Cahis
2. Tintner, for the original 1872 version, much better than the later
one, even if the later one is played by Giulini.
5. Jochum/Concertgebouw on Tahra, better than his performance for EMI
or DGG
8. von Matacic on Denon, the best Eighth in modern sound, in my
opinion.
And I want to reinforce the Sixth of Celibidache/EMI, there isn't a
better Sixth than this one (of course in my opinion)
"rkhalona" <rkha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:bopfl1luvsv2670p4o6caf4dboforvdek5@
4ax.com:
> And I want to reinforce the Sixth of Celibidache/EMI, there isn't a
> better Sixth than this one (of course in my opinion)
What do people here think of Keilberth?
jrs...@aol.com
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Juan I. Cahis <jic...@SINBASURAattglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:bopfl1luvsv2670p4o6caf4dboforvdek5@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > And I want to reinforce the Sixth of Celibidache/EMI, there isn't a
> > better Sixth than this one (of course in my opinion)
>
> What do people here think of Keilberth?
A great 6th and a very good 9th. After hunting for the 6th for years on
CD, I was glad to make reacquaintance with it--it's one of the best.
But as good as it is, it doesn't equal the incendiary passion of
Furtwangler, doesn't best the clarity of purpose of Klemperer, doesn't
top the colossal power and energy of Solti or Barenboim/DG, isn't more
refined than Dohnanyi, and doesn't equal the transcendant control of
Celi. It satisfies on all those counts, but it's no longer the top of
the heap (and Adler was right up there, way back when, anyway).
--Jeff
bzuk...@phillynews.com
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Juan I. Cahis <jic...@SINBASURAattglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:bopfl1luvsv2670p4o6caf4dboforvdek5@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > And I want to reinforce the Sixth of Celibidache/EMI, there isn't a
> > better Sixth than this one (of course in my opinion)
>
> What do people here think of Keilberth?
>
wouldn't replace Celi as my top pick. I would probably pick that Celi
sixth as my single favorite Bruckner recodings.
Barry
jrs...@aol.com
Exactly what my wallet wants to hear! I've been toying with the idea of
ordering a few of his Fontec recordings, not the more expensive Canyon
releases.
--Jeff
Matthew Vaughan
news:1129810416....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> 6 - Blomstedt/San Francisco (maybe OOP)
I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I really like this one, very warm and
rich, and most particular, the most poignant, sentimental and human Bruckner
performance I've heard. You're right, I think it's (sadly) out of print.
(On the other hand, their 4th left me entirely cold, even after a number of
listenings.)
My only other recommendation at this time is to second the love for
Guilini/VPO in the 9th.
Paul Ilechko
> Strange. So many posts, but no one mentioned the many outstanding
> Bruckner recordings by Günter Wand.
Actually, I did ;-)
A. Brain
news:1129775996.533bb221bdd56f71fb755d6fc109e0e2@teranews...
> 9. Am I the only one who likes Barenboim/Berlin? It's the only one
> that seems to leave us hanging at the edge of eternity, rather than
> playing the Adagio (however effectively) as a finale. I also love
> E. Jochum/DG, Furtwangler, Giulini/VPO, and Wildner (more
> for the standard three movements, played with elemental
> violence, than its reconstituted finale).
Is this some version that I don't know? And while I am
familiar with some of the various versions, which ones
involve transposing or omitting whole movements?
For that matter, how many other mainstream symphonies
have optional performing versions involving transposition
of whole movements? Other than Mahler 6, that is?
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
CRUZ LAMAS
I thought the first movement was missing from this. No?
Curtis Croulet
that Cruz's name would be on the messages.
jrs...@aol.com
I assume the first movement is still missing, as you say.
--Jeff
Michael Schaffer
Curtis Croulet wrote:
> What evidence of this "pressure" did Wand offer?
He didn't "offer" any evidence. We were not holding him for
questioning, we were music students who talked to him briefly for a few
minutes backstage.
There is a lot of literature about the pressures Bruckner was subjected
to by well meaning friends, including during the revision of the 8th.
The point is that the cut really upsets the internal balance of the
sections of the finale somewhat. Apparently a lot of eminent conductors
felt the same way. Looking at the list of recordings, it looks like
either version attracts a lot of followers.
Michael Schaffer
jrs...@aol.com wrote:
> Michael Schaffer wrote:
> > Strange. So many posts, but no one mentioned the many outstanding
> > Bruckner recordings by Günter Wand.
>
> That's not entirely true: I mentioned his Berlin 7th earlier as a
> particularly fine performance. Someone else reiterated the
> recommendation.
You are right. I overlooked these. Still, there are surprisingly few
mentionings of this, maybe the most eminent Bruckner conductor of the
last decades.
> > Every Bruckner recording of his I have heard (in addition to a number
> > of live concerts) was on the very highest level. Informed and at the
> > same time soulful music making, learned but with a deep feeling into
> > the mysteries behind the notes.
> > I could easily draw up a list of favorites just from Wand albums.
> > But I also like many others, among them Karl Böhm who hasn't been
> > mentioned much either.
>
> Bohm's 4 is mentioned frequently, but his 3 and 8 are also worthy.
The 7th (WP) is also very good. Of historical value are recordings of
the 4th and 5th he did in Dresden in the 30s.
> > I also love Sinopoli's recordings (3-5,6-9) with the Staatskapelle
> > Dresden, Blomstedt's 4 and 7, Dohnanyi's 3-9 with Cleveland (the 7th in
> > particular), some of Karajan's, especially the 4th and 7th on EMI and
> > the 3rd and 5th on DG.
>
> Of these, I admire Sinopoli, but I think Dohnanyi is the stronger
> Brucknerian overall and I think I prefer the sonics of the Cleveland
> recordings, not to mention the orchestra, though one could hardly
> complain either way. I'd really like to hear a live Dohnanyi
> Bruckner--that would likely be even better.
I think while the recorded sound on Dohnanyi's recordings is generally
a little better (the DG recordings are either a little too dry or too
reverberant, depending on the location - Semperoper or Lukaskirche),
the SD orchestral sound is much more beautiful and rich than the CO,
although Dohnanyi was able to get a very special sound quality from
that orchestra too.
> > The crowning achievement in Bruckner interpretation on record for me is
> > Giulini's recordings of 7-9 with the WP.
>
> You've never mentioned Giulini's 2 (now on Testament). What do you
> think of it? As I've said before, Giulini's broadcasts with Chicago,
> even more than his WP or BP versions, are for me the crowning
> achievements of his Bruckneriana.
I only heard this recording of the 2nd once a very, very long time ago.
I hardly remember any details, so I don't feel I can comment on it.
It was made spontaneously BTW, the work scheduled to be recorded was
actually a Schubert mass. But Giulini was not satisfied by the quality
of the choir (Wiener Singverein), so he cancelled them and recorded the
Bruckner 2 instead. Why, I don't know. Probably because they had just
played it in concert.
To be brutally honest though, I have a very hard time to imagine that
those broadcasts could really be THAT good. The CSO, as well as they
play, simply lacks the special sound quality and feeling for certain
nuances in Bruckner. The strings simply don't have the depth of sound
and vibrancy. And the often forced, blaring brass sound doesn't help
much either. Then there are a lot of fine phrasing and timing nuances
which I generally don't hear in their performances but which make an
"idiomatic" Bruckner playing style.
> For me it is either Schuricht's collected discography or perhaps...see
> below.
>
> > Plus the marvelous 9th with Kubelik/SOBR.
>
> Kubelik also did a marvelous 8th. He wasn't quite as strong in 3 and 4,
> on Sony, but those are also excellent and there are other 3s and 4s, on
> shady labels, that show Kubelik's affinity for these works even more
> persuasively. Of course, Kubelik's 6 is quite fine too--both of the
> performances I've heard, though my preference is for the one issued by
> the Chicago Symphony.
>
> Did he not conduct 5 or 7?
Dunno.
> I'm waiting for more comment on one truly ignored figure in this
> thread...T. Asahina. Now, if people are plunking down $30 per for the
> experience, surely he is the best. Where are Henry F. and Michael W. to
> crown Asahina our Bruckners Without Budgets champion?
>
> Actually, if anyone has been ignored, in my opinion, it is Furtwangler.
> Far too few mentions of his work; he offers exactly the kind of wake-up
> call to Bruckner that would spur anyone to go nuts finding a modern
> equivalent (drum roll again for Paita). And though Klemperer has gotten
> some mention, I think of him as a nearly perfect Brucknerian, even in
> his EMI recordings. The live Bruckner that has been released (some now
> on Testament? also Tahra or Music and Arts?) exert a magnetic pull into
> the special world of Bruckner. Giulini exudes the Brucknerian wisdom
> Klemps the penetrating Brucknerian intelligence. If Bruckner were
> religious dogma, Furtwangler wrested it from on high, Klemperer is the
> apostle who revealed and preached its truths, and Giulini celebrated it
> with the converted. With Giulini, you are already saved, from the first
> note; not so with the others. Somehow I sense Schuricht and Matacic
> were each all three in one, but that's another matter and already Lena
> is breaking out into hives over this nontechnical gibberish.
>
> --Jeff
Non technical, but still some interesting thoughts. Who is Lena?
Curtis Croulet
you, but he might have had something else interesting to say. Haitink
(judging from a quote I saw somewhere) has essentially the same opinion as
Wand. It leaves us in the realm of psychoanalyzing composers before we
accept their own editorial decisions. "So, Herr Bruckner, what was your
state of mind when you made that cut?" "I thought the passage needed
cutting." "But did you *really* feel that way, or did someone 'pressure'
you?" "Franz suggested it, and I concluded he was right -- the passage
could be tightened up a bit." "So, it wasn't really *your* decision, was
it?" "What the @#$% kind of question is that? (Exasperated gasp) I really
didn't think I'd have to explain it to someone 120 years later!"
Michael Schaffer
Curtis Croulet wrote:
> Of course, I knew Wand wouldn't offer "evidence" in his conversation with
> you, but he might have had something else interesting to say.
He did. He actually said a lot of interesting stuff in the few minutes
that we had to talk to him.
> Haitink
> (judging from a quote I saw somewhere) has essentially the same opinion as
> Wand. It leaves us in the realm of psychoanalyzing composers before we
> accept their own editorial decisions. "So, Herr Bruckner, what was your
> state of mind when you made that cut?" "I thought the passage needed
> cutting." "But did you *really* feel that way, or did someone 'pressure'
> you?" "Franz suggested it, and I concluded he was right -- the passage
> could be tightened up a bit." "So, it wasn't really *your* decision, was
> it?" "What the @#$% kind of question is that? (Exasperated gasp) I really
> didn't think I'd have to explain it to someone 120 years later!"
I don't think you need to go to a psychic. There is quite a bit of
research into and literature available about how the symphonies were
composed and revised.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:ZFT5f.469265$5N3.387106@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
Just so we're clear on this, you don't mean transposing movements into
different keys, but moving the order around. Anton Rubinstein's "Ocean"
Symphony is one of these, though not mainstream.
david...@aol.com
Nope. I regard the word Karajan on a recording as a warning label even
if I do rather like a couple Karajan performances.
-david gable
Sol Siegel
"Vaneyes" <van...@excite.com> wrote...
Thanks for the info. I have the earlier Karajan Edition you referred to
(from
the late '90s) and found it to be superior to my memory of the Studio, which
I had actually replaced with an LP! But memories can be funny...
--
Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
"My reputation has nothing to do with me." - Terry Gilliam
Eric Nagamine
> Juan I. Cahis <jic...@SINBASURAattglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:bopfl1luvsv2670p4o6caf4dboforvdek5@
> 4ax.com:
>
>
>>And I want to reinforce the Sixth of Celibidache/EMI, there isn't a
>>better Sixth than this one (of course in my opinion)
>
>
> What do people here think of Keilberth?
>
There is a good 7th coupled with Die Meistersinger overture available in
Japan.
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/mahlerb/broadcaststartpage.html
Eric Nagamine
> Richard Loeb wrote:
>
>> Rather than complete cycles - what are the recommendations for best
>> recordings of individual symphonies - budget would be nice -thanks in
>> advance
>>
>> Richard
>>
>
> 2: Stein/Vienna Decca
> 4: Bohm/Vienna Decca
> 5: Furtwangler/Berlin M&A or Horenstein/NPO BBC legends
> 6: Dohnanyi/Cleveland Decca
> 7: Chailly/Berlin Radio Decca
> 8: Karajan/Vienna DG
> 9: Walter/Columbia SO Sony
>
>
I forgot to add Schuricht/VPO for the 9th on EMI.
Others have brought up Asahina...The problem there is that they've
issued everything and the kitchen sink in Japan. It's hard to keep track
of which is which. Good solid bruckner conducting like Wand did, but
only so-so orchestral playing. It's amazing though that Asahina gets a
pretty passable Bruckner sound from his Osaka band, especially as the
orchestra improved over time.
Eric Nagamine
> "RX-01" <kon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1129810416....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>6 - Blomstedt/San Francisco (maybe OOP)
>
>
> I'm glad someone else mentioned this. I really like this one, very warm and
> rich, and most particular, the most poignant, sentimental and human Bruckner
> performance I've heard. You're right, I think it's (sadly) out of print.
>
I must keep on the look out for this as the Swedish Radio Symphony
broadcast I heard was very impressive. A great Bruckner performance.
A. Brain
news:Xns96F5BDB3DA4...@207.217.125.201...
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
>> Is this some version that I don't know? And while I am
>> familiar with some of the various versions, which ones
>> involve transposing or omitting whole movements?
>>
>>
>> For that matter, how many other mainstream symphonies
>> have optional performing versions involving transposition
>> of whole movements? Other than Mahler 6, that is?
>
> Just so we're clear on this, you don't mean transposing movements into
> different keys, but moving the order around. Anton Rubinstein's
> "Ocean"
> Symphony is one of these, though not mainstream.
My inquiry was about what I perceived to be a recommendation
of a performance/recording that maybe omitted the last movement
of Bruckner 9, which was news to me, despite all the confusion
about Bruckner's symphonies versions.
There is some recording of a Bruckner symphony that omits
a movement, for whatever reason. But my question about
transpositions was simply about versions where the order
of performing movements is changed, as in some performances
of Mahler 6.
I guess I can understand why, when there are relatively
minor changes from one version to the other, as in some
Bruckner, reviews or books like Penguin do not mention
which version is recorded. But surely when, as in the Mahler
6 recently recorded by Mackerras, the order of movements
is changed, it ought to be noted in the review and is more
useful than remarks such as (in a Bruckner review):
"_______'s natural affinity of temperament with the Austrian master
gives these massive structures a compelling, unforced concentration that
brings
out their architectual grandeur".
For a Mahler review, substitute "____________" for "architectural
grandeur"
and substitute ________ as the conductor having the affinity of
temperament.
JR
Orchestra on Oct 7. IMO, a great performance too, but I'm admittedly
"Stan" fan.
>
> No, it was Skro, and IMO it's one of the greatest 8ths I've ever heard.
Marc Perman
"Eric Nagamine" <en...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:IB16f.2360$QM5....@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> Others have brought up Asahina...The problem there is that they've issued
> everything and the kitchen sink in Japan. It's hard to keep track of which
> is which. Good solid bruckner conducting like Wand did, but only so-so
> orchestral playing. It's amazing though that Asahina gets a pretty
> passable Bruckner sound from his Osaka band, especially as the orchestra
> improved over time.
It might be time to again discuss the merits of the many Asahina Bruckner
recordings, but we'll need Henry Fogel. I think that Asahina does produce a
convincing central European Bruckner sound from the Osaka and various Tokyo
orchestras he conducted, but while none are quite the BPO, I think he was a
more compelling Brucknerian than Wand, particularly in his old age.
Marc Perman
Raymond Hall
news:rfGdnbb_6uo...@comcast.com...
Part of the problem with favourites lists, is that they are based on what
each individual has in their collection, and especially with Bruckner, that
could include many cycles, or even maybe one very cherished one, and many
individual symphonies. Unless an individual owns EVERY recording ever made,
then we can only honestly put forward those recordings we keep and reach for
most of the time.
I, for one, wish I had more Celi Bruckner. And Wand. The opportunities will
arise presumably. Haven't heard Asahina at all.
Ray H
Taree
jrs...@aol.com
It was surprising how much "thicker" they can sound for Dohnanyi on
Decca, and still retain sufficient clarity. This sound actually matches
my brief experience with them in Severance Hall (a rehearsal, actually,
so the seats were mostly empty). I'm not sure which orchestra is more
beautiful, in my opinion. Having heard both but neither in Bruckner in
person. On record I'd give the edge to Cleveland but, again, that's
more due to the engineering. Going back to the Boehm recordings (how
could I forget those?) at least, Dresden has always been strong in this
repertoire.
>
> > > The crowning achievement in Bruckner interpretation on record for me is
> > > Giulini's recordings of 7-9 with the WP.
> >
> > You've never mentioned Giulini's 2 (now on Testament). What do you
> > think of it? As I've said before, Giulini's broadcasts with Chicago,
> > even more than his WP or BP versions, are for me the crowning
> > achievements of his Bruckneriana.
>
> I only heard this recording of the 2nd once a very, very long time ago.
> I hardly remember any details, so I don't feel I can comment on it.
> It was made spontaneously BTW, the work scheduled to be recorded was
> actually a Schubert mass. But Giulini was not satisfied by the quality
> of the choir (Wiener Singverein), so he cancelled them and recorded the
> Bruckner 2 instead. Why, I don't know. Probably because they had just
> played it in concert.
Personally I think his WP recordings later are much better than that WS
2, but I'll have to try it again some time.
> To be brutally honest though, I have a very hard time to imagine that
> those broadcasts could really be THAT good. The CSO, as well as they
> play, simply lacks the special sound quality and feeling for certain
> nuances in Bruckner. The strings simply don't have the depth of sound
> and vibrancy. And the often forced, blaring brass sound doesn't help
> much either. Then there are a lot of fine phrasing and timing nuances
> which I generally don't hear in their performances but which make an
> "idiomatic" Bruckner playing style.
>
This is of course where we will never agree--we come at this from
different educational backgrounds perhaps, or have had different
listening experiences or have different expectations. I do like to
point out on occasion that not all Brucknerians find Dresden or Vienna
to be ideal or uniquely idiomatic.
To me the brass are generally less forced in Chicago than in Berlin or
Dresden, strong when necessary but not blaring, and in any case both
blend (thanks to some rock solid intonation and artful shading in all
sections) and balances are usually fine because I can hear everything,
particularly with Giulini and the later Barenboim and Solti
performances. Some of the earlier DG and Decca recordings do not
reflect the sound so well, but that's not a huge impediment. There are
many expressive felicities in the Chicago playing that I do not hear in
the Dresden, particularly in the winds, but that's something of a draw.
In any case, disregarding the winds and just speaking of the strings
and then the overall sound, the Giulini performances had not only
nuance but also that nearly terrifying depth and eloquence of tone in
Chicago that I don't hear in the relatively more civilized beauty in
the Wien performances. Under Giulini there's a terror and a soul
searching evoked in the Chicago 8th and 9th performances that completes
his interpretation--expanding the music to a cosmic quest. The
orchestra's strengths complement his tendency toward warmth and creates
an amazing mix of vulnerability and menace. The WP doesn't quite do
that, and the difference is as much in the strings as in the winds or
brass.
That's my brutally honest take on it, and we're splitting hairs here,
but when it comes to vibrancy and depth of string sound or overall
blend, I really don't consider Chicago's Bruckner under Giulini any
less Brucknerian than other orchestras, and having heard them live
under other conductors, I hesitate to limit that to Giulini. The lower
strings, particularly the basses and cellos of that orchestra, make a
bigger, better, more refined sound for Bruckner than any other
orchestra I've heard and I've heard them do simply amazing things, tone
wise, with this ability to turn on a dime from gossamer tenderness to
open-throated triumph, without ever losing a rich presence, in
everything from Mozart and Schubert to Lutoslawski and Shostakovich.
The digital recordings in particular, in my opinion, have trouble
catching the presence of this sound the way it has vibrated in various
halls.
Lena didn't like my mush-headed metaphorical take on Beethoven's
"dignity" and Norrington's lack thereof, now ensconced in the rmcr
archive.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
It was surprising how much "thicker" they can sound for Dohnanyi on
Decca, and still retain sufficient clarity. This sound actually matches
my brief experience with them in Severance Hall (a rehearsal, actually,
so the seats were mostly empty). I'm not sure which orchestra is more
beautiful, in my opinion. Having heard both but neither in Bruckner in
person. On record I'd give the edge to Cleveland but, again, that's
more due to the engineering. Going back to the Boehm recordings (how
could I forget those?) at least, Dresden has always been strong in this
repertoire.
>
> > > The crowning achievement in Bruckner interpretation on record for me is
> > > Giulini's recordings of 7-9 with the WP.
> >
> > You've never mentioned Giulini's 2 (now on Testament). What do you
> > think of it? As I've said before, Giulini's broadcasts with Chicago,
> > even more than his WP or BP versions, are for me the crowning
> > achievements of his Bruckneriana.
>
> I only heard this recording of the 2nd once a very, very long time ago.
> I hardly remember any details, so I don't feel I can comment on it.
> It was made spontaneously BTW, the work scheduled to be recorded was
> actually a Schubert mass. But Giulini was not satisfied by the quality
> of the choir (Wiener Singverein), so he cancelled them and recorded the
> Bruckner 2 instead. Why, I don't know. Probably because they had just
> played it in concert.
Personally I think his WP recordings later are much better than that WS
2, but I'll have to try it again some time.
> To be brutally honest though, I have a very hard time to imagine that
> those broadcasts could really be THAT good. The CSO, as well as they
> play, simply lacks the special sound quality and feeling for certain
> nuances in Bruckner. The strings simply don't have the depth of sound
> and vibrancy. And the often forced, blaring brass sound doesn't help
> much either. Then there are a lot of fine phrasing and timing nuances
> which I generally don't hear in their performances but which make an
> "idiomatic" Bruckner playing style.
>
This is of course where we will never agree--we come at this from
> > For me it is either Schuricht's collected discography or perhaps...see
Lena didn't like my mush-headed metaphorical take on Beethoven's
jrs...@aol.com
david...@aol.com wrote:
> 7th
>
> Rosbaud, Steinberg, Von Matacic
>
> Steinberg's the dark horse here, of course, but I'm too tired to
> attempt a description of his performance. I'm waiting for Jeff to
> write something eloquent about Von Matacic's late Bruckner.
>
Steinberg isn't such a darkhorse. I like that 7th very much--was quite
surprised by its fluidity and elegance. But since then hearing his 5,
6, and 8 has merely confirmed that Steinberg took a very consistent,
generally fast but natural approach to Bruckner. The 5th (a Bavarian
radio broadcast) is one of the most compelling I've heard. He knew what
he was doing.
--Jeff
Raymond Hall
news:1129959668.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Michael Schaffer wrote:
> jrs...@aol.com wrote:
> > Michael Schaffer wrote:
> > > Strange. So many posts, but no one mentioned the many outstanding
> > > Bruckner recordings by Günter Wand.
> >
> > That's not entirely true: I mentioned his Berlin 7th earlier as a
> > particularly fine performance. Someone else reiterated the
> > recommendation.
>
> You are right. I overlooked these. Still, there are surprisingly few
> mentionings of this, maybe the most eminent Bruckner conductor of the
> last decades.
>
> > > Every Bruckner recording of his I have heard (in addition to a number
> > > of live concerts) was on the very highest level. Informed and at the
> > > same time soulful music making, learned but with a deep feeling into
> > > the mysteries behind the notes.
> > > I could easily draw up a list of favorites just from Wand albums.
> > > But I also like many others, among them Karl Böhm who hasn't been
> > > mentioned much either.
> >
> > Bohm's 4 is mentioned frequently, but his 3 and 8 are also worthy.
From the moment I heard Böhm's 4th on Decca, its quality overall,
immediately took it to the top B4 for me. Must get to hear his 3 and 8, as
mentioned above.
Having snipped the interesting comments about recordings (and various
orchestral qualities, usa 4 europe 3???, eh ... eh ..., ha ha hee hee), I
heard the most awesome string sound the other day. It came from a 20 bit
remastered Sony copy of a 43 year old recording.
Mahler 3rd/Bernstein NYPO. Even though there is greater delicacy required in
much of Mahler's string passages, I swear that in one of the opening
movements (the first being very long), there was a section where I could
'almost' visualise the hairs being drawn across the strings, such was the
immediacy and 'realness' of the sound. So, in my opinion, regardless of
their other fabled devices, CBS, could, in their prime, extract moments of
jaw dropping recorded quality. And the brass wasn't to be sniffed at either,
but in general, CBS often caught string sound quite wonderfully. Especially
with the NYPO. Am not that convinced about the famed Philly strings, other
than their string sound always sounded as though they were playing with more
strings. No more, no less.
Ray H
Taree
Gerard
>
>
> Part of the problem with favourites lists, is that they are based on
> what each individual has in their collection, and especially with
> Bruckner, that could include many cycles, or even maybe one very
> cherished one, and many individual symphonies. Unless an individual
> owns EVERY recording ever made, then we can only honestly put forward
> those recordings we keep and reach for most of the time.
But even if that were the case. Bruckner's symphonies (and Mahler's) seem to
be a subject that arises many and many of this kind of threads that lead
nowhere. Almost every week there's such a thread. Everybody names his
favorites, and it has no sense at all (except from staying busy). But a lot of
the contributors like it that way.
It should be a different thing if one could explain someway _why_ conductor A
(or B or H or J or K or S) is his favorite.
Dave Cook
> but in general, CBS often caught string sound quite wonderfully. Especially
> with the NYPO.
Try the Bernstein/CBS Tallis Fantasia. Also, the way the lower strings are
caught in the 1963 Fantastique (haven't heard the 1968 recording).
Dave Cook
Roland van Gaalen
I demand character and fire and exciting transitions here, at least at this
stage of my life.
Given this limited focus and perspective, my CDs can be categorized as
follows.
Very Good pile:
Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1944)
Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1949)
Knappertsbusch (Berlin Philh 1951)
Szell (Concertgebouw 1951)
Van Beinum (Concertgebouw 1955)
Less good pile (*):
Schuricht (Vienna Philh 1963) [good, but here and there too smooth]
Haitink (Concertgebouw 1969) [actually quite exciting, yet slightly
sanitized]
Jochum (Concertgebouw 1984) [almost dull]
Celibidache (Munich 1993) [definitely dull]
Haitink (Vienna Philh 1995) [almost on my Very Good pile, beautiful strings
indeed]
All of these fail to catch fire due to some defect, as indicated.
It's is all or nothing, and as usual the historical recordings win hands
down.
What happened?
"The old order changeth, yielding place to new, / ..."
(as John Culshaw quoted a classic poem about King Arthur's death in the
liner notes to _Siegfried_, in a different context.)
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
r.p.vangaalenATchello.nl (AT=@)
jrs...@aol.com
I swear, Ray, you've just described exactly what I'm listening for
right at this moment. Nothing raises the little hairs on the back of my
neck more than the impression that there are hairs being drawn across
strings. It's what we all look for. Am listening as I write to a so-so
engineered Bruckner 7 on Drum Can with Giulini/BPO, but I'm adoring
because those basses have that nice feathery Berlin sound that really
emphasizes the gentle but tangible process of drawing hair across
string. Love it!
There was more to Philadelphia than size, but it is true that when an
orchestra brings an extra big string section to the stage I am
immediately suspicious because size does add a lustre that covers up
other flaws. No, the Stokie/Ormandy tradition was much more than that,
but you may never quite hear it right on recordings. It was like
looking into a deep, dark well of water. There seemed to be no
beginning or end to that sound; it had an infinite fullness never heard
before or since, as near as I can tell.
--Jeff
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Re Bruckner Symphony No. 8 / 2nd movement (scherzo) / first two themes:
>
>I demand character and fire and exciting transitions here, at least at this
>stage of my life.
>
>Given this limited focus and perspective, my CDs can be categorized as
>follows.
>
>Very Good pile:
>Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1944)
>Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1949)
>Knappertsbusch (Berlin Philh 1951)
>Szell (Concertgebouw 1951)
>Van Beinum (Concertgebouw 1955)
>
>Less good pile (*):
>Schuricht (Vienna Philh 1963) [good, but here and there too smooth]
>Haitink (Concertgebouw 1969) [actually quite exciting, yet slightly
>sanitized]
>Jochum (Concertgebouw 1984) [almost dull]
>Celibidache (Munich 1993) [definitely dull]
>Haitink (Vienna Philh 1995) [almost on my Very Good pile, beautiful strings
>indeed]
>
>All of these fail to catch fire due to some defect, as indicated.
>
>It's is all or nothing, and as usual the historical recordings win hands
>down.
What happens to your respective piles when you get to the adagio?
Simon
Praetorius
> The 8th was with somebody else, and named the "apocalyptic."
> I skipped it. Should I be looking for it?
Sorry if you already knew this, but "Apokalyptische" is a nickname for the
8th apparently used in German speaking countries. I already knew about
No. 3 is also known as the "Wagner-Sinfonie," but was surprised to see
Bielefelder indicate No. 2 as "Pausensinfonie" [nope, not "Posaune"].
Frank Decolvenaere
To reply by e-mail, replace NMBR with 1612.
"You are no bigger than
the things that annoy you."
Jerry Bundsen
Mark Perlman
1 - Asahina/Canyon
2 - Tintner/Naxos
3 - Tintner/Naxos
4 - Tintner/Naxos, Walter/Sony, Böhm/Decca
5 - Celibidache/Munich, Kempe/Sony
6 - Klemperer/EMI
7 - Furtwangler/DG, Karajan/EMI
8 - Furtwangler/VPO 1944 M&A, Karajan/DG (1988 VPO)
9 - Keilberth/Teldec, Furtwangler/DG
Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Lbydnd_kSNk...@giganews.com...
A. Brain
news:435a0595$0$16282$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
I am not one of these (many) Bruckner nuts. I have heard all
the symphonies, many in concert with a fine Brucknerian
(Eschenbach). I find 4 to be rather too monolithic, but
with some great moments, most of them too well, momentary.
But 4,7, and 9 are the most accessible of the symphonies.
Just tonight I listened to Bruno Walter's 4 on the early
CBS CD. The sound is really great, especially in those
dribbles of woodwind and overall warmth in the strings.
Maybe this conductor shared that "Austrian" temperament
as well as some others who had "other priorities" and
may have concentrated more on Bruckner than on Mahler
over a certain period.
( I find it hard to believe that the
Sony "remasterings" later have improved the sound of
the original CDs. Almost all of the Walter recordings
have great sound--and did on LP too.)
The fourth is definitely one of the more accessible and one
could do very well with Walter's 4,7, and 9--great sound
in all three. Eschenbach's 6th is occasionally to be found
at Berkshire. As I recall, Hurwitz liked it a lot.
So as a Bruckner fan, rather than a fanatic, I suggest
that Walter's 4,7, and 9 are a good start. I wish his
7th had the percussion in the second movement though.
Michael Schaffer
They have that bass sound because they play everything on big 5-string
basses (which is generally the norm for professional orchestras in
Germany). They actually mostly use solo strings - strings which are
designed for tuning one whole tone step higher - and tune them down to
orchestral tuning, so the strings are fairly soft. That, the big
instruments (old and very valuable Italian and German instruments), and
the German bow playing sutained playing style are the "ingredients" of
that sound which is actually somewhat different from other schools of
German bow based bass playing as heard in, for instance, Prague,
Dresden, or Vienna.
Thanks for your "brutally honest" and detailed comments earlier. I will
post a few thoughts in reply later when I have more time.
Roland van Gaalen
>Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1944)
This should read: Vienna Philh
Roland van Gaalen
news:djdqm...@drn.newsguy.com...
> What happens to your respective piles when you get to the adagio?
Re Bruckner Symphony No. 8 / 3rd movement (adagio)
(1) Spellbinding (*)
Furtwangler (Vienna Philh 1944) [this one has uncanny intensity]
Furtwangler (Berlin Philh 1949) [similar]
Szell (Concertgebouw 1951) [sublime; the old Concertgebouw Orchestra sound]
Van Beinum (Concertgebouw 1955) [less incisive than Szell but very exciting]
(*) I put these in the same category is the miraculous Parsifal recordings
by Karl Muck
(2) Very good, but somewhat lacking in character
Schuricht (Vienna Philh 1963) [Furtwangler Light: smooth strings, subdued
brass, the manic urgency is gone]
Haitink (Concertgebouw 1969) [everything sounds just right, once and for
all, rather than for a special occasion]
(3) Bordering on the ponderous and somewhat bland, but still quite good
(**):
Knappertsbusch (Berlin Philh 1951)
Celibidache (Munich 1993)
Haitink (Vienna Philh 1995)
Jochum (Concertgebouw 1984)
(**) These recordings reveal a lot of detail and are very impressive and
powerful when they finally get going, but not much happens before the real
buildup starts.
The long wait weakens the overall impact to such an extent that I should add
"if I remember correctly".
As regards the Celibidache recording, I concede the music doesn't fall
apart, and the good parts last long, too, but the tension is not maintained
throughout.
The plodding tempo ("nicht schleppend"?) works well, but only in the sublime
ascent, and that's a high price to pay.
Gerard
>
>
> I am not one of these (many) Bruckner nuts. I have heard all
> the symphonies, many in concert with a fine Brucknerian
> (Eschenbach). I find 4 to be rather too monolithic, but
> with some great moments, most of them too well, momentary.
> But 4,7, and 9 are the most accessible of the symphonies.
>
> Just tonight I listened to Bruno Walter's 4 on the early
> CBS CD. The sound is really great, especially in those
> dribbles of woodwind and overall warmth in the strings.
> Maybe this conductor shared that "Austrian" temperament
> as well as some others who had "other priorities" and
> may have concentrated more on Bruckner than on Mahler
> over a certain period.
>
> ( I find it hard to believe that the
> Sony "remasterings" later have improved the sound of
> the original CDs. Almost all of the Walter recordings
> have great sound--and did on LP too.)
>
> The fourth is definitely one of the more accessible and one
> could do very well with Walter's 4,7, and 9--great sound
> in all three. Eschenbach's 6th is occasionally to be found
> at Berkshire. As I recall, Hurwitz liked it a lot.
>
> So as a Bruckner fan, rather than a fanatic, I suggest
> that Walter's 4,7, and 9 are a good start. I wish his
> 7th had the percussion in the second movement though.
Thanks for your reply.
Happily I have the symphonies 4 and 9 by Walter on early CBS CD's, so I can
'verify' your words one of these days - or weeks. I'll keep looking for
symhony 7.
A. Brain
> A. Brain wrote:
>> The fourth is definitely one of the more accessible and one
>> could do very well with Walter's 4,7, and 9--great sound
>> in all three. Eschenbach's 6th is occasionally to be found
>> at Berkshire. As I recall, Hurwitz liked it a lot.
>>
>> So as a Bruckner fan, rather than a fanatic, I suggest
>> that Walter's 4,7, and 9 are a good start. I wish his
>> 7th had the percussion in the second movement though.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
> Happily I have the symphonies 4 and 9 by Walter on early CBS CD's, so
> I can
> 'verify' your words one of these days - or weeks. I'll keep looking
> for
> symhony 7.
The 7th was on a two-disc set on CBS. It's
now part of the "Bruno Walter Edition" on one
CD. But like I said, I cannot imagine that these
later Sonys would be better sounding than the
original CBS ones.
As I recall, some of the other originally
Columbia recordings--like those by
Szell--supposedly did improve in sound
through "remastering", whatever that is.
Matthew B. Tepper
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> The 7th was on a two-disc set on CBS. It's now part of the "Bruno Walter
> Edition" on one CD. But like I said, I cannot imagine that these later
> Sonys would be better sounding than the original CBS ones.
>
> As I recall, some of the other originally Columbia recordings--like those
> by Szell--supposedly did improve in sound through "remastering", whatever
> that is.
Many years ago (maybe 1990), I stopped in at Vagabond Books on Westwood
Boulevard and was told that Erin Fleming had sold them Groucho Marx' record
collection. She was, as you may have read, his girlfriend/caretaker in his
final years, and there was a big court case over conservatorship, mostly by
those family members who thought she was a threat and was intent chiefly on
spending his money. Anyway, she appears to have vanished into bagladyness,
and would occasionally show up at various places to sell off the belongings
as she had been able to spirit away from the house.
The collection had been pretty well picked over, but the one item which
still sticks in my mind was that Walter Bruckner 7th. A monaural copy, at
that. Sometimes I contemplate Groucho Marx listening to that recording,
and I wonder what his thoughts were.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Vaneyes
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:Kec7f.174813$qY1.26566@bgtnsc04-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> > The 7th was on a two-disc set on CBS. It's now part of the "Bruno Walter
> > Edition" on one CD. But like I said, I cannot imagine that these later
> > Sonys would be better sounding than the original CBS ones.
> >
> > As I recall, some of the other originally Columbia recordings--like those
> > by Szell--supposedly did improve in sound through "remastering", whatever
> > that is.
>
> Many years ago (maybe 1990), I stopped in at Vagabond Books on Westwood
> Boulevard and was told that Erin Fleming had sold them Groucho Marx' record
> collection. She was, as you may have read, his girlfriend/caretaker in his
> final years, and there was a big court case over conservatorship, mostly by
> those family members who thought she was a threat and was intent chiefly on
> spending his money. Anyway, she appears to have vanished into bagladyness,
> and would occasionally show up at various places to sell off the belongings
> as she had been able to spirit away from the house.
>
> The collection had been pretty well picked over, but the one item which
> still sticks in my mind was that Walter Bruckner 7th. A monaural copy, at
> that. Sometimes I contemplate Groucho Marx listening to that recording,
> and I wonder what his thoughts were.
Sad Groucho and Fleming endings. She committed suicide in 2003.
You sure about the mono Walter B7? Just stereo showing at the Berky
Bruckner discography.
http://home.comcast.net/~jberky/BSVD.htm
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=677
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0281663/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Fleming
Regards
rkhalona
Columbia LP M2S 690 (the 'S' means stereo, I think).
1961 is a bit late for dual mono/stereo releases, which took place
commonly in the late 50s, but I suppose it's possible.
RK