New Icon box: Keilberth - Telefunken Recordings

[Invocation]

The next Icon box will feature Josef Keilberth's Telefunken recordings. 22CD, scheduled for May:

https://www.amazon.fr/Icon-Joseph-Keilbert-Telefunken-Rec-1953-63-allemand/dp/B07B5Y8RLD

[drh8h]

On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 12:00:45 AM UTC-5, Invocation wrote:
> The next Icon box will feature Josef Keilberth's Telefunken recordings. 22CD, scheduled for May:
>
> https://www.amazon.fr/Icon-Joseph-Keilbert-Telefunken-Rec-1953-63-allemand/dp/B07B5Y8RLD

Many, if not all of these, have been reissued, particularly in the early CD days, and I have some of them on JP pressings. Depends on whether there has been any remastering. The recent Haydn Sonata reissue, its third or fourth, with Buchbinder is apparently the old mastering, but it has excellent sound of a sometimes odd-sounding Steinway. Warner may not be bothering to remaster Telefunken items.

Keilberth is an acquired taste, and many people never acquired it. He seems to have been a friendly, sociable type who would go out and drink with the boys and girls after a performance, and sometimes those do not make strong conductors. His most celebrated orchestral recording probably is the Bruckner 6 with the BPO. The least they could do is get his name right. "Keilbert"!! Odd footnote, the first record by him I ever bought was purchased on the very day he died. Means I am old.

I ramble, but it is a missed opportunity: JK was recording for Telefunken years before 1953. Now, if they had included all of those records, this would be a no-brainer for me.

DH

[Invocation]

在 2018年3月7日星期三 UTC-5上午8:48:27，drh8h写道：

Based on the recent Icon reissues, esp. the Telefunken Ferras box, I am pretty confident that they woul use new transfer, at least for most, and I have high hope on those. Indeed you can find at least of those on excellent Japanese issues but those are quite expensive...

[drh8h]

Amazon.de has the back cover of the box now. No mention or bragging of remastering, or indeed of mastering. I am listening to some of the Mozart Serenades on a JP issue right now. Sound is quite dull; the performances "genial," if I may be euphemistic. Would take a big improvement in the sound to persuade me to fork out $ for these again. I already have most of the major pieces he recorded. I wonder outside Germany where the market would be. Maybe it will be deep discounted soon.

DH

[Bob Harper]

I saw him live once--the day he died. It was the middle of the 2nd Act
of Tristan in Munich. I was up high and the stage was pretty dark, so I
was looking down at the pit. I saw him lurch forward, then fall to the
floor. After a couple of bars, the music stopped. Someone called, "Gibt
es ein Arzt im Haus?", and pretty soon he was carried out. A short while
later an official came out and announced the cancellation of the
remainder of the performance. I understand that he died in the hospital
a short while later.

Bob Harper

[drh8h]

That was the very day I believe I bought the four-disc Richmond set of Brahms Symphonies. As usual, I was downtown spending my allowance money on a Saturday. Probably paid five dollars for it!

1-Van Beinum; 2-Furtwangler; 3-Szell; 4-Keilberth (with Telefunken label). When I saw the death announcement in the local paper on Monday, I cut it out and put it in the box. I must have bought the records, given the time difference, only a few hours before he died. Still have all of those performances, only on CD now. Looking at a newspaper archive, the obituary of Ruth St. Denis appeared the same day.

Dennis

[Invocation]

在 2018年3月7日星期三 UTC-5下午8:39:10，drh8h写道：

Which Japanese issue were you listening to? Teldec issued the Keilberth series in Japan twice (1997, 2008) but I do not think they use a different transfer from the international issue. In 2014 Tower issued some five volumes of his recordings with a new transfer, which has a noticable improvement over the old Teldec issue.

[Andy Evans]

I recommend the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Ludwig Hoelscher on disc 17. Passionate and well recorded.

[drh8h]

I have some of the 1997 issues. If they use the Tower transfers, at least for those items in the boxes you mention, I might reconsider. However, I have noticed sometimes those new transfers in exclusive Tower issues do not get carried over to international releases. Indeed, the parent companies often act as if they never existed and proclaim their reissue as the first ever. Even Eloquence does this and does not use the JP transfers in many cases, e.g., the Kubelik Brahms Symphonies, Monteux items, etc. Don't know about Warner. In any case, the Bamberg recordings I have been listening to are mediocre. I will check some of his work with other orchestras, but the Bambergs hardly seem worth resurrecting.

[drh8h]

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 4:03:06 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> I recommend the Dvorak Cello Concerto with Ludwig Hoelscher on disc 17. Passionate and well recorded.

After giving some of the others in the series a listen, the BPO and Hamburg tapings are definitely in another league, both performance and sound. Even the 1997 discs have very listenable transfers. Warm, no spotlighting of detail, emphasis on mass rather than brightness. What one would expect from a German company in the 50s and 60s. I note the Dvorak you reference is a Hamburg, which might account for its quality. If anyone takes the plunge when this comes out, please let us know about the masterings used.

Dennis

[Invocation]

在 2018年3月8日星期四 UTC-5上午8:31:59，drh8h写道：

I do not think Warner can use Tower's transfer. That's different from borrowing an existing transfer done by, say EMI Japan or DG Japan. Tower is not a subdivision of Warner. Tower paid for the original master tape and hired a team to do the transfer (the same team that works for Esoteric's SACD issues).

[Randy Lane]

The 1997 remaster of the Bruckner 6th is my fave.

[drh8h]

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 6:19:08 PM UTC-5, Randy Lane wrote:
> The 1997 remaster of the Bruckner 6th is my fave.

A critic, I remember not whom, but may have been David Hamilton, chose that recording as a favorite but reported his antipathy for most of Keilberth's work. May have been the same place I saw JK referred to as "old slew foot," who "decently interred" just about everything he touched. If my memory is wrong, apologies to dead critics and conductors!

Dennis H

[drh8h]

On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:37:11 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:

If I saw a conductor or anybody drop dead it would probably traumatize me from ever going to a concert again. I remember HK was so worried about it, he commissioned some heart specialists to do a study. There was a picture of him wired up and rehearsing, in shorts sans shoes, for one of the tests.

[meyers...@gmail.com]

Actually the "decently interred" remark which I find both funny and true comes from a review by Conrad L Osborne of a 1937 recording of Faust in German with Keilberth conducting

[drh8h]

I am probably conflating different reviews. Happens when you get old. I somewhat do remember C.L.O. comparing that particular Faust unfavorably with the 1908 recording starring Emmy Destinn.

[O]

In article <098392c0-64cb-4bf8...@googlegroups.com>,

W.C. Fields used a similar term to describe someone: "All dressed up
like a well kept grave."

-Owen

[drh8h]

If this announcement is any guide, only certain items are remastered:

https://tinyurl.com/y7n3rndn

DH

[Invocation]

在 2018年3月31日星期六 UTC-4上午9:22:15，drh8h写道：

I do not think so. I am not good at Japanese but this line "以前CD化され発売されていた音源は、デジタルマスターよりリマスター" means they did remaster the items previously released, but not from the original tape.

[drh8h]

Suggests the original tapes no longer exist? Reading through the notes accompanying the recent Bernstein Remastered box, I am not sure I even understand what an original tape is. And who knows what the practices were at Telefunken.

DH

[Mr. Mike]

The usual bad translation (some are very funny):

Joseph Kyle Belt / Telefunken recording 1953-1963 (22CD)

?Kyle belt's Telefunken recording collection including many first CDs?
Joseph Kylebert [1908-1968] was born in Karlsruhe in the same year as
Karajan, in 1925 he began music activities as a practicing conductor
of the Karlsruhe National Theater (now the Baden State Theater), and
in 1925 he began his career at a singing theater in various parts of
Germany He took office as Principal Conductor of the Bamberg Symphony
Orchestra formed mainly of members of the Philharmonic Philharmonic
Orchestra who had escaped from Czechoslovakia after World War II.
Traditional German music is the main repertoire and the interpretation
of German songs including operas and orchestral music, such as Wagner,
Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, Richard Strauss, Pfitzner, etc. are
particularly outrageous and lyrical and warm Despite its elegant
charm, I pulled a strong impulse with the good old German martial bone
at the time.
In the CD era a part was a domestic cheap board series in 1997, it was
re-released on the occasion of the birth year of 2008 for the 100th
birthday of the year, but since then it was almost out of print in
overseas recordings. The box to be released this time will be released
in commemoration of Kyle Belt's 110th birthday, 50th anniversary, and
it is the one which recorded the sound source which was recorded to
the telefunken in 1953-1963.
The sound source that was previously CD-converted and released was
remastered from the digital master. (*) Sound source became the first
CD conversion, 24 bit / 96 kHz remaster from the original master.
"Schubert: Symphony No. 6" recorded on Disk 10 has a sound source for
stereo recording, and this will also be the first CD as a stereo sound
source by 24 bit / 96 kHz remaster from the original master. (Import
source information)

?Recording Information?
Disc 1
Mozart:
1. Symphony No. 28 major K.200 (*) recording: July 23-25 ??July 1962
(stereo)
2. Symphony No. 30 in D major K. 202 (*) recording: January 31, 1953
(monaural)
3. Symphony No. 35 innovation K.385 "Hafner" recording: July 10 - 11,
1963
4. Symphony No. 36 in C major, K.425 "Linz" recording: July 10 - 11,
1963

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 2
Mozart:
1. Symphony No. 38 major D major K.504 "Prague" recording: November
2-3, 1955
2. Symphony No. 39 Hokkaido major text K.543 sound recording: November
2-3, 1955
3. Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K.550 recording: November 2-3, 1959

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 3
Mozart:
1. Symphony No. 41 C Major K.551 "Jupiter" recording: July 18 - 1959
2. Serenado No. 6 innovation K.239 "Serenata Nozzura" recording: July
21, 1959
3. Serenade No. 8 innovation K.286 "NOTULNO" recording: July 19 - 24,
27, 1959
4. Serenade No. 13 major, K.525 "Aene Kleene Nacht Musique" Recording:
July 19 - 24, 27, 1959
5. Two Minuet and Contolance K.463 (*) recording: July 21 - 24, 27,
1959

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 4
Mozart:
1. Divertiment No. 1 everyday major harmonic K. 113 recording: July 19
- 1959 21 - 24, 27
2. Divertiment No. 2 major number K. 113 recording: August 26, 1962
3. Six German Dances K.509 (*) Recording: July 19 - 24, 27, July 1959
4. Opera "Theater manager" K. 486 - overture (*) Recording: July 19 -
195 - 21 - 24, 27
5. Opera "Magical Flute" K.620 ~ Overture (*) Recording: March 5, 1952
(Mono)

Haydn:
6. Symphony No. 85 Denver major "Queen" recording: July 8 - 11, 1957

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 5
1. Haydn: Symphony No. 101 Mini major "Watch" recording: July 8 - 11,
1957
2. Beethoven: Overture "Coriolan" Op.62 Recording: July 6, 1960
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

3. Beethoven: "Leonore" overture Overture No. 3 Op. 72 b Recording:
July 6, 1960
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra,

4. Beethoven: Overture from "The Ruins of Athens" Op.113 Overture and
"Turkish March" Recording: April 26, 1960
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra

5. Weber: Opera "Oilante" Overture (*) Recording: February 1, 1953
(Mono)
6. Weber: Opera "Mahou Shooter" Overture (*) Recording: February 1,
1953 (Mono)
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 6
Beethoven:
1. Symphony No. 1 in C major Op.21 Recording: 3-5 days July 1958
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Symphony No. 3 Hohho Major Op.55 "Hero" recording: September 27 -
October 3, 1956
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra,

3. Opera "Fidelio" Overture Op. 72 Recording: July 6, 1960
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 7
Beethoven:
1. Symphony No. 2 major number Op. 36 Recording: 1-3 days July 1958
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Symphony No. 4 Denomi Op. 60 Recording: September 30 - October 3,
1958
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra

3. "Egmont" Overture Op.84 Recording: April 11 - May 1, 1960
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 8
Beethoven:
1. Symphony No. 5 H minor, Op. 67 "Fate" recording: January 28 -
February 5, 1958
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra

2. Symphony No. 6 in F major Op. 68 "Rural" Recording: July 8 - 10,
1960
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 9
Beethoven:
1. Symphony No. 7 A major, Op. 92 Recording: October 27 - 29, 1959
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra,

2. Symphony No. 8 in F major Op. 93 recording: February 6 - 10, 1958
(monaural)
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 10
1. Schubert: Symphony No. 8 minor minor D. 759 "Incomplete" recording:
July 7, 1960
2. Schubert: Symphony No. 6 in C major D.589 (first release on stereo
recording) Recording: February 4, 5, 1954
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

3. Mendelssohn: Overture "Quiet Ocean and Fun Voyage" Op.27 Recording:
February 9, 1962
4. Mendelssohn: Overture "Fingal's Cave" Op.26 Recording: February 9,
1962
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 11
1. Schumann: Symphony No. 1 Breed major Op.38 "Spring" recording:
January 30, 31, 1953 (Mono)
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Grieg: "Pale Guint" first suite, second suite recording: April 3,
4, 1956 (monaural)
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 12 - 13
Brahms:
1. Symphony No. 1 H minor Op.68 Recording: March 9 - 11, 1951
(monaural)
2. Symphony No. 2 innovation Op. 73 Recording: February 6, 1962
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

3. Symphony No. 3 F major Op. 90 Recording: July 8, 9, 1963
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

4. Symphony No. 4 Ho minor Op. 98 Recording: 21 - 25 April 1960
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 14
1. Brahms: Tragic Overture Op.81 Recording: July 8, 1957
2. Brahms: Hungarian Dances No. 3, No. 10, No. 1 Recording: July 8, 9,
1963
3. Brahms: University Festival Overture Op. 80 Recording: March 3-5,
1952 (Mono)
4. Smetana: "Moldau" from "My Country" "From the Bohemian Forest and
the Grassland" Recording: July 20, 21, 1961
5. Dvorak: Overture 'Carnival' Op.92 Recording: July 19, 1961
6. Johann Strauss II: Morning newspaper Op.279 (*) Recording: July 25,
1959
7. Johann Strauss II: Persia Marching Op.289 Recording: July 25, 1959

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 15
Johann Strauss II:
1. Waltz "Beautifully Blue Danube" Op.314 (*) Recording: July 10, 12,
1957
2. Waltz "Life of Artist" Op.316 (*) Recording: July 10, 12, 1957
3. Waltz "Sake, woman, song" Op.333 (*) recording: July 10, 12, 1957
4. "Emperor Daimyo" Op. 437 (*) Recording: July 10, 12, 1957
5. "Tritch, Trotch, Polka" Op.214 Recording: July 24 and 25, 1959
6. Waltz "Rose of Tropical Country" Op.388 Recording: July 24, 25,
1959
7. "Annen Polka" Op.117 Recording: July 11, 12, 1960
8. "Kagaku songs" Op.257 recording: July 11th and 12th, 1960
9. Polka "Fickle Heart" Op.319 Recording: July 11th, 1960
10. "Acceleration Dance" Op.234 Recording: July 11, 12, 1960
11. "Egypt Marching" Op.335 Recording: July 11th, 1960
12. Waltz "Vienna temperament" Op. 354 recording: July 11, 12, 1960

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 16
Dvorak:
1. Slavic Dance Collection Op.46 (*) Recording: October 13-15, 1956
2. Slavo Dance Collection Op. 72 (*) Recording: October 13 - 15, 1956

Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
Disc 17
Dvorak:
1. Symphony No. 9 E Minor Op. 95 "From the New World" Recording: July
17, 18, 1961
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Cello Concerto in B minor Op. 104 Recording: September 23 - 25,
1958
Ludwig Herscher (cello)
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 18
1. Wagner: Prelude to the first act, "Nürnberg's My Staginger"
Recording: January 28, 29, 1957
2. Wagner: Prelude to the third act, "Nürnberg's My Staginger" (*)
Recording: January 28, 29, 1957
3. Bruckner: Symphony No. 9 mini minor recording: October 30, 1956 &
November 3

Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 19
1. Bruckner: Symphony No. 6 in A major, recording: 10-14 March, 1963
2. R. Strauss: Symphonic poem "Funny prank of Till Eylenspiegel" Op.28
Recording: February 21, 22, 1961
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra

3. R. Strauss: From the opera "Sluggy Female" "Potpourri" Recording:
August 5-8, 1963
Bavarian State Opera Orchestra
Disc 20
1. R. Strauss: Symphonic poem "Don Fan" Op.20 Recording: February 21,
22, 1961
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra,

2. R. Strauss: Four Symphonic Interludes from the opera "Intel Metzo":
August 5-8, 1963
3. R. Strauss: Waltz No. 1, No. 2 from the opera "Rose Knight"
Recording: August 5-8, 1963
4. R. Strauss: "Salome's dance" from opera "Salome" Recording: August
5-8, 1963
Bavarian State Opera Orchestra

5. Wagner: Prelude to the first act "Lohengrin" Opera: January 28, 29,
1957
6. Wagner: Prelude to the 3rd act "Opera" "Lohengrin": January 28, 29,
1957
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra
Disc 21
Roger:
1. Ballet Suite Op.130 Recording: July 23 - 25, 1962
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Variations on the theme of Hiller and Fuga Op.100 Recording: March
29 - 31, 1955
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra

Disc 22
1. Roger: Variations on Mozart's Theme and Fuga Op.132 Recording: July
23-25, 1962
Bamberg Symphony Orchestra

2. Hindemit: "Noble Fantasy" Suite (*) Recording: September 21, 22,
1955
3. Hindemit: Symphonic transformation by Weber's theme (*) Recording:
September 21, 22, 1955
Hamburg National Philharmonic Orchestra

Josef Kylebert (conductor)

The sound source of the (*) mark is converted to the first CD.
Stereo recording is not included.
Track order may be changed. (Import source information)

[drh8h]

That is what got Germany in trouble a couple of times!

DH

[cooper...@gmail.com]

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 2:10:25 AM UTC-4, Mr. Mike wrote:

"Quiet Ocean and Fun Voyage" and the "Rural" Symphony are highlights, but there's much else to enjoy. Keilberth's recording of Brahms' Symphony #4 was my first encounter with the piece. One of those 99-cent remainders from Sam Goody, as I remember, I thought the piece was deadly dull. It isn't; it took me years to overcome that initial impression by listening to better performances. This is one Big Box that doesn't tempt me at all.

AC

[drh8h]

That Brahms 4 was my second encounter in a Brahms box with Van Beinum, Furtwängler and Szell. It was my second recording following the Bernstein/Columbia. They were all second or third versions for me, in fact. No, I will tell you what is truly awful: the Brahms Third with the Bamberg Symphony. The brass in particular are a fright. I was cringing just waiting for the first movement recapitulation. Rehearing the 4th, though, was if not an exalting experience, at least pleasant. The finale goes at quite a lick and times in around the Toscanini zone. I also listened to some of the Bamberg Mozart: some was good, some dull. This might be worth it at a discount price for such things as the famous Bruckner 6 and the Dvorak Cello Concerto someone praised. Depends on whether they did any remastering of the previously issued items. But then, if I do buy it, who will take my JP pressings of the 2008 reissue?

DH

[Invocation]

You are right. Warner only newly remastered the recordings appear on CD for the first time (of course). They use old remastering for all previously issued recording. Very disappointing.

在 2018年3月31日星期六 UTC-4上午9:22:15，drh8h写道：