Chopin Competition - Stage 3

[JohnGavin]

Currently watching Hao Rao

Solid, consistent. His playing shows Russian training - fingers always close to the keys, carrying arm and torso weight. He reminds me somewhat of Gilels. Tuned in during the slow movement of the B Minor Sonata. Must admire his powerful and beautiful sound considering his short physical stature. My only criticism is a lack of cohesiveness in the Sonata slow movement. His A flat Polonaise is nailed - perfection!

[JohnGavin]

Miya Shindu - Bless all these contestants. They’ve all worked very hard to play the way they do under these stressful conditions. Having said that, Miss Shindu represents the sort of hyper sensitive type of interpreter that I find very hard to take. The flailing arms and wrists, the pained and tortured facial expressions on every note - as if looking for complex meanings where simplicity would serve the meaning of the music much better.

The famous Mazurka in A Minor op. 17 # 4 is pushed and pulled in an unbearable way,

The Rondo alla Mazur, which is clearly a sparkling brilliant showpiece is greatly miscast in her interpretation.
Mr. Liu pretty much nailed this on Tuesday IMO.

In her favor, she comes off somewhat more favorably when you don’t watch her. She is capable of beautiful playing when she calms down. Sonata in B minor 1st movement much better!

[HT]

Op donderdag 14 oktober 2021 om 13:21:59 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

> Currently watching Hao Rao
>
> Solid, consistent. His playing shows Russian training - fingers always close to the keys, carrying arm and torso weight. He reminds me somewhat of Gilels. Tuned in during the slow movement of the B Minor Sonata. Must admire his powerful and beautiful sound considering his short physical stature. My only criticism is a lack of cohesiveness in the Sonata slow movement. His A flat Polonaise is nailed - perfection!

He's one of the few who made the Mazurki he played sound interesting.

Henk

[JohnGavin]

Entire Sonata is much better - as If a different spirit took over.

[HT]

Op donderdag 14 oktober 2021 om 13:57:33 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

Shindo's presentation is even worse than Trifonov's, but her tone remains beautiful, under all circumstances. Her technique is exceptional. There is nothing she cannot do. I'm fascinated by her music, based on Chopin's scores. It's the first time that I cannot stop listening to a competitor.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 14 October 2021 at 13:16:24 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Nothing has changed really from my thoughts about rounds 1 and 2. From the morning session of 14th I only liked Nehring, and I thought he was really good. I never got on board with Rao or Shindo. Should be more happening this evening.

[Herman]

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:57:33 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> Miya Shindu -
>

> In her favor, she comes off somewhat more favorably when you don’t watch her. She is capable of beautiful playing when she calms down. Sonata in B minor 1st movement much better!

Which is what I do.
Her teacher / mentor should have drilled her to drop the antics, but hey, her music making is utterly enthralling. Which is what it is about, isn't it?

[JohnGavin]

Watching Mr. Sorita - I don’t need to wait to the end of the Sonata in Bb Minor. He’s wonderful. Distinguished by a big, luminous sound, really outstanding and what a natural musician he is. Loved the Mazurkas, (but the Polish judges may not). As I write this I’m listening to the Sonata - it’s irresistible playing to my ears. This guy seems incapable of playing a single unmusical note.

Just one minor detail - on the 1st repeat of the Sonata he returned to the very beginning, which is not in the score or on any recording, but what the heck - no points off for this pianist. So far it’s Liu / Sorita for me.

[JohnGavin]

Watching Mr. Sumito one might get the feeling that you’re seeing Chopin in a new reincarnation. He’s sensitive but I think not quite among the very best. It occurred to me that an example of an excellent Chopin pianist of a sensitive nature was Maryla Jones. Her Chopin is not to be missed.

[Herman]

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:36:57 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:57:33 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> > > Miya Shindu -
> > >
> > > In her favor, she comes off somewhat more favorably when you don’t watch her. She is capable of beautiful playing when she calms down. Sonata in B minor 1st movement much better!
> > Which is what I do.
> > Her teacher / mentor should have drilled her to drop the antics, but hey, her music making is utterly enthralling. Which is what it is about, isn't it?
> Watching Mr. Sorita - I don’t need to wait to the end of the Sonata in Bb Minor. He’s wonderful.

Sorita is Mr Man Bun, right? I'll listen to that part tonite.

We were impressed with Shindo's Op 17 Mazurkas: each one a wholly authentically conceived world. The Sonata... I don't like the slow mvt that slow, but it was good nonetheless. I'm a fan, but I can't picture her as a winner.

[JohnGavin]

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:22:51 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:36:57 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 11:03:38 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:57:33 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> > > > Miya Shindu -
> > > >
> > > > In her favor, she comes off somewhat more favorably when you don’t watch her. She is capable of beautiful playing when she calms down. Sonata in B minor 1st movement much better!
> > > Which is what I do.
> > > Her teacher / mentor should have drilled her to drop the antics, but hey, her music making is utterly enthralling. Which is what it is about, isn't it?
> > Watching Mr. Sorita - I don’t need to wait to the end of the Sonata in Bb Minor. He’s wonderful.
> Sorita is Mr Man Bun, right? I'll listen to that part tonite.

Yes. Mr. man bun is worth watching for sure!
>

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 14 October 2021 at 18:09:45 UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:
> Yes. Mr. man bun is worth watching for sure! > >

Agreed! Sorita is fascinating – he really draws you into his conception and makes you believe in it. His interpretations are different from others, but I’m on board. I liked the last movement of the Bb minor. Very smooth and sotto voce. A pianist well worth following in future.

Sumino isn’t quite at the same level to my ears, but I enjoyed his playing. I think he’s good and should go through. I liked the last movement of his Bb minor also.

Listening to Wiercinska ATM. Not really doing much for me but we're still on the first few mazurkas.

[Herman]

Listening to Man Bun's Mazurkas now. They're beautiful. He's doing interesting things with left / right asymmetry, without any showboating. In the 2nd round 't quite taken by him, but this is much better, or maybe I wasn't right the previous time.

[AB]

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 7:21:59 AM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
> Currently watching Hao Rao

>
Must admire his powerful and beautiful sound considering his short physical stature. My only criticism is a lack of cohesiveness in the Sonata slow movement. His A flat Polonaise is nailed - perfection!

WOW- thought you smarter than that, really stupid statement........... ('short, physical stature)" Hofmann was very short, had the most powerful, beautiful tone that came through even on his acoustics.

AB

[Herman]

Having listened to the entire Sorita recital I have to say it's excellent playing. The development section of the sonata was great. I checked for his age, he's 27 years old now, and that's when I couldn't help but notice his current professor is sitting on the jury...

[HT]

Op donderdag 14 oktober 2021 om 17:36:57 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

Sorita was rather disappointing this round. A reason to revisit him. I'm still not happy with his mazurka (nothing wrong, but not the Sorita from the second round), the last movement of the sonata (many notes but no graves and wind) and a lacklustre performance of an amateurish arrangement by Chopin of a Polish hymn. He played safe, and probably succeeded.

The second Polish competitor performed the complete Preludes, and was, in general, easier to listen to than Sorita.

Tomorrow will be a more interesting day.

Henk

[Graham]

Nearly all videographers seem to think that changing the view, every few
bars, makes their video more interesting. I find it infuriating when
just as the finger-work is getting interesting, they switch to a facial
shot, which in her case, is particularly painful to watch.

[Herman]

I like the diverging opinions. I have listened to Shindo's Op. 17 Mazurkas a second time, and I think their fascinating, wonderful. Would they work on a CD for eternity? Probably not. However this is a live performance and it's pretty exciting.

[HT]

Op donderdag 14 oktober 2021 om 23:18:16 UTC+2 schreef HT:

Finally, a last movement of Op. 35 that makes sense in a surprisingly intimate version of the sonata. Candotti at her best.

Henk

[HT]

Op vrijdag 15 oktober 2021 om 13:58:01 UTC+2 schreef HT:

Furumi is consistent and a natural Chopin player. She just lacks that little extra (I have no idea what) that would make her a clear winner.

Henk

[JohnGavin]

So far for me, both watching morning and evening sessions, it comes down to Liu, Sorita and Gagliardi.

But I say that realizing we all have different likes and dislikes. Frankly, I feel that Bruce Liu already plays like a great pianist. His polish, phrasing, articulations are dazzling. I don’t think I could say that for any of the others at this point.

[JohnGavin]

Ms. Kim is now playing the Tarantella. Excellent choice, as it is very rarely heard. She plays beautifully and she is consistent. The level of playing this year is high. She along with Ms. Gagliardi have admirable calm and poise. Ms. Kim has sensitivity while playing with an unfailing sense of line. Her Chopin is a beautiful blend of classicism and romanticism.

[Dan Koren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKin2xhKNk

Behind every great pianist there is a wonderful cat!
He definitely deserves to win the gold at Chopin! ;-)

dk

[JohnGavin]

One more point - Ms. Kim just played what is likely the finest Sonata in B Minor yet!

[HT]

Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 11:44:36 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

If only the cat had better musical taste ...

Henk

[HT]

Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 12:04:31 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

She was excellent. The same goes for Kobayashi.

BTW, it seems that Cateen, Sorita and Kobayashi have the most views by far on YT. So did Ushida, but he didn't pass.

Henk

[JohnGavin]

Not surprised Henk. On the last Chopin Talk segment the director mentioned the the highest number of views came from Japan.

[Herman]

When you're hearing Chopin all the time, you tend to applaud the soloists who do stuff differently.

Kim's Chopin is not radically different; her personal stamp is rather subtle, but it's clearly there, so I liked her too.

[JohnGavin]

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 8:16:04 AM UTC-4, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

> Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 12:04:31 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
> > On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:44:36 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKin2xhKNk
> > >
> > > Behind every great pianist there is a wonderful cat!
> > > He definitely deserves to win the gold at Chopin! ;-)
> > >
> > > dk
> > One more point - Ms. Kim just played what is likely the finest Sonata in B Minor yet!
> She was excellent. The same goes for Kobayashi.
>

I wish I could share your enthusiasm for Aimi Kobayashi, but her playing seems somewhat sleepy.
I can appreciate a contemplative approach, but here it strikes me as too homogenous - it covers everything like a large blanket. I’d call it too much of a good thing. She could use some of Bruce’s dynamism.

[HT]

Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 16:34:35 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

It seemed to me that Kobayashi was right in between Shindo and Kim: between appropriation and interpretation. An interesting third way to perform Chopin.
Bruce is out of the box. I'm curious what the jury will decide.

Henk

[Herman]

On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 4:46:04 PM UTC+2, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
Shindo and Kim: [...] appropriation and interpretation.

interesting way of putting it. I agree.

[Andy Evans]

I'm still playing catch-up. Got as far as Gevorgyan. Her mazurkas were rather stiff, and the 17/4 surely has to have a real sense of desolation that some pianists manage to catch. The Bb Sonata was all there with good tone, but not special. She's quite a cerebral pianist. To date I'm most sure of Sorita, then maybe Armellini. Some "maybe"s like Bui, Gagliano, Sumino. I'm waiting for Nehring, Kim, Kobayashi, Lee and Liu who impressed me in previous rounds.

[Herman]

Wow, Bruce Liu is very powerful in the B minor sonata.

I have to listen to his Mazurkas yet.

I can't help the feeling that he is the contestant most obviously ready for the big stage.

[Andy Evans]

On Saturday, 16 October 2021 at 18:51:50 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> Wow, Bruce Liu is very powerful in the B minor sonata.

I'm still behind you.... I got stuck on Kim. I had to listen to every note. I really feel in tune with how she thinks. Needless to say I really enjoy her playing and I hope she goes through. I don't see why she isn't "ready for the big stage" together with Kobayashi who I haven't heard in Round 3 yet? Sorito is already a "big stage" pianist. A pianist for me has above all to be "likeable". Totally subjective, but I like Kim.

[JohnGavin]

In a competition with many fine, hard working contestants, there really logically shouldn’t be a clear front runner, and maybe for the judges there isn’t. For me there is, it’s Bruce Liu. He’s operating on a different level. He plays like an already great pianist. Unless the concerto doesn’t go well - I couldn’t imagine why it wouldn’t, it’s his to lose.

[Herman]

I like Kim, too.

We'll see how it goes.

[Herman]

Liu has that killer instinct that made him do those crazy Mozart variations.

The audience applause wanted him to come back for another bow.

Kim btw got a huge roar at the end of her recital.

[Andy Evans]

On Saturday, 16 October 2021 at 19:21:29 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> I like Kim, too. We'll see how it goes.>

I've discovered I like Kim so much that I've been checking her other videos, and finding I'm really in tune with her conception. A very nice Kreisleriana from the 2017 Van Cliburn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKOpH7VouM

And Beethoven etc from the 2021 CMIM which she won.

https://www.pianistmagazine.com/blogs/2021-cmim-winner-su-yeon-kim-talks-to-pianist/

She's a potential winner for me, or at the very least one of the prizewinners.

[JohnGavin]

I liked her very much too. I hope she places.

[HT]

Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 20:21:29 UTC+2 schreef Herman:

> I like Kim, too.
>
> We'll see how it goes.

Most impressive this round were: Shindo, Sorita, Armellini, Gagliano, Gevorgyan, Kim, Kobayashi, Lee and Liu.
There is room for one Pole, probably Nehring.

Liu's version today of the Don Juan variations was the most dramatic I've ever heard. It sounded even more 'operatic' than Liszt's paraphrase.

Henk

[Herman]

Kim will be among the finalists, or I'll eat my hat.

(I will have to buy one first, though.)

[Herman]

Checking Kim's bio, I see she was in the 2015 Chopin Competition, too - just like the pretty Italian, Michelle Candotti. And in 2016 Kim competed in the Queen Elizabeth down in Brussels.

[Andy Evans]

I've now heard all of round 3. To my ears the medals are going to Sorito, Kim and Liu. But in what order? For my own taste I'd place Liu 3rd. I'm basically pretty cool towards him but I respect his pianistic abilities. I just don't feel his concept of the music in my bones, so for me he's kind of going through the motions. Doesn't touch me like other pianists do. I actually gave up listening to him in the Sonata - I'd had enough. Much to admire, but that's not enough if I'm not moved. He's not a pianist I'll have any interest in watching in future.

That leaves Sorito and Kim. Tough. As an antidote to Liu I switched back to Sorito and one mazurka was enough to tell me he was deeper into the music. And then I simply like listening to Kim and like what she does with the music, be it Schumann, Beethoven, Chopin or other composers I haven't heard yet. I want to hear more from both these pianists. They're very different and I like both. Depends how their concertos go I guess. I'd be happy for either to win.

If I was offered tickets for both on the same night I'd probably go and see Sorito just out of curiosity to see what he would do with the music. I'd then want a video of Kim to take home and watch at my leisure.

[Herman]

Alas, I am currently eating my hat.
Incredibly, Su Yeon Kim did not make it to the final round.
Equally incredible, Eva Gevoryan did.
The finalists are Leonora Armelini, Jun Li Bui, Alexander Gadjiev, Martin Garcia Garcia, Eva Gevorgyan, Aimi Kobayashi, Jakob Kuszlik, Huyk Lee, Bruce Lio, Kamil Pacholec, Hao Rao, Kyohei Sorita.

[Herman]

Imagine how Kim and Candotti are feeling, as they are packing their stuff. They've done this competion twice.

[HT]

The finalists:

Ms Leonora Armellini, Italy
Mr J J Jun Li Bui, Canada
Mr Alexander Gadjiev , Italy/Slovenia
Mr Martin Garcia Garcia, Spain
Ms Eva Gevorgyan, Russia/Armenia
Ms Aimi Kobayashi, Japan
Mr Jakub Kuszlik, Poland
Mr Hyuk Lee, South Korea
Mr Bruce (Xiaoyu) Liu, Canada
Mr Kamil Pacholec, Poland
Mr Hao Rao, China
Mr Kyohei Sorita, Japan

No place in the finals for the ladies: Shindo, Gagliano, and Kim.
Their places are taken by four gentlemen. Bui, Gadjiev, and Rao were nothing special. Garcia drew attention because of his histrionics (worse than Shindo) and many wrong notes.
Raising the number of candidates going to the next round to promote a few Poles has become tiresome.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

No Kim? That's disgusting. The jury either have cloth ears or they've been doing deals with each other.

Pacholec and Kuszlik instead of Kim? Yes, and pigs will fly......

Expect the same ridiculous judging when it comes to the medals. I have no respect whatever for this jury.

[JohnGavin]

Ms. Kim should be in the finals. Effortless beauty and flawless execution were highly memorable from her.
I don’t get excluding her while including Mr. Garcia who, even when you closed your eyes, it was like hearing Glenn Gould reborn. I think there must have been many emotional exchanges among the judges.

[JohnGavin]

With Kim sadly gone I’m hoping for Liu 1st, Sorita 2nd. Rao and Lee had some memorable moments - can’t pick a #3.

[Andy Evans]

On Sunday, 17 October 2021 at 00:00:23 UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:
> With Kim sadly gone I’m hoping for Liu 1st, Sorita 2nd. Rao and Lee had some memorable moments - can’t pick a #3.

Liu will win, Gevorgyan second and one of the Polish pianists will come third.

[Graham]

Judging the Round 3 predictons here, you've just put a hex on Liu!

[Herman]

I have found Gevorgyan consistently meh.
The finals will be a parade of concerto 1 or 2, not nearly as interesting musically as round 3, with uninteresting candidates, I will call it a day.

[JohnGavin]

I will make a prediction. 8 - 10 of the 12 finalists will choose Concerto #1 in E Minor.

[Andy Evans]

I think the panel for the 19th Chopin Competition should be made up of jazz musicians, violinists and 5 people randomly invited off the street in any country that hasn't heard of Poland. That way no contestants will have had any lessons with jury members.

[Andy Evans]

https://slippedisc.com/2014/10/star-pianist-quits-competition-jury-over-dishonesty-and-fraud/

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/opinion/08iht-edjohnson.html

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jul/25/julian-lloyd-webber-classical-music-competitions-corrupt

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/playing-dirty-

Interesting reading.....

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021, HT wrote:

> Op zaterdag 16 oktober 2021 om 12:04:31 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
>> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:44:36 AM UTC-4, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKin2xhKNk
>>>
>>> Behind every great pianist there is a wonderful cat!
>>> He definitely deserves to win the gold at Chopin! ;-)
>>>
>>> dk
>> One more point - Ms. Kim just played what is likely the finest Sonata in B Minor yet!
>
> She was excellent. The same goes for Kobayashi.
>
> BTW, it seems that Cateen, Sorita and Kobayashi have the most views by far on YT. So did Ushida, but he didn't pass.
>
> Henk

Cateen? Okay, I'll bite: Dan has perhaps explained the "cat" part
(not quite sure when Dan is joking), but what about the "teen" (which
Sumito isn't)? (I didn't much care for his round 3.)
--
Al Eisner

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021, HT wrote:

Why, Henk, are you posting this under thar weird subject line? You won't
succeed in hiding it. :)
--
Al Eisner

[Chris from Lafayette]

Andy - from our other site:

I will say that, in general, I agree with you about the jury's decisions - I'm just not sure what wavelength they're on when they allow a "bull in the china shop" like Garcia Garcia to pass, and yet, as you say, shut the door on a real artist like Kim. I think it will be hard to predict their final decisions. The list below contains the third-round competitors who did not advance too.

Mr Piotr Alexewicz, Poland
Ms Leonora Armellini, Italy - Perfectly competent, but not that memorable IMHO. I would have loved to see at least three others promoted instead of her.
Mr J J Jun Li Bui, Canada - A strong player. I'm glad he's in the finals.
Ms Michelle Candotti, Italy - Very forgettable for me - nothing outstanding in terms of tone or textural clarity. I'm happy she didn't get promoted.
Ms Yasuko Furumi, Japan - Another one I would have preferred in the finals. Loved her Tarantella! Too bad.
Mr Alexander Gadjiev, Italy/Slovenia - Another surprising choice for the finals. Not enough control and too many mistakes for me.
Ms Avery Gagliano, U.S.A. - The jury's failure to promote Gagliano into the finals was a big disappointment for Ms. CfL, who loved Gagliano's restraint and her refusal to overdramatize things. I basically agreed, but her Funeral March Sonata performance in the third round might have come across as small-scaled to some jurors. Still, I was sorry to see her go in the midst of all this over-dramatization on the part of so many other competitors.
Mr Martin Garcia Garcia, Spain - I just don't know what to say - words fail me here. Not to mention the clown faces he was frequently making, as well as the loud singing and humming. (Oh joy! A new Glenn Gould! - Not!)
Ms Eva Gevorgyan, Russia/Armenia - Hey man! Star power is star power! ;-)
Mr Nikolay Khozyainov, Russia - He was OK, but too heavy sometimes for my taste.
Ms Su Yeon Kim, South Korea - Very mature yet passionate playing, and her exit is a big loss for the finals IMHO.
Ms Aimi Kobayashi, Japan - A wonderful player at the lower dynamic levels - really marvellous. I thought that she lacked power sometimes however.
Mr Mateusz Krzyżowski, Poland
Mr Jakub Kuszlik, Poland - I actually thought he was among the better Polish players. I'm OK with his promotion to the finals.
Mr Hyuk Lee, South Korea - I need to re-listen, since, for whatever reason, I don't have a strong impression.
Mr Bruce (Xiaoyu) Liu, Canada - Still have not heard him. I see he's got at least one big fan here on Google Groups however! ;-)
Mr Szymon Nehring, Poland - Sorry to disagree with you about this guy, Andy. I was OK with him until I heard his third-round performances, which I found too mannered with the excessive desynchronization of the hands (for no apparent expressive purpose that I could hear). I agree with the judges decision not to pass him.
Mr Kamil Pacholec, Poland - Another merely "OK" Polish pianist benefitting from the national make-up of the jury this year? Not that he's that bad really.
Mr Hao Rao, China - I guess the jury didn't judge him too harshly for his four-bar excision in the A-flat Polonaise! ;-)
Ms Miyu Shindo, Japan - Another overly emotive player who made awful faces while she played. Not too bad in terms of pure pianism, but I'm glad she wasn't promoted.
Mr Kyohei Sorita, Japan - Our current favorite, prior to the upcoming concerto performances. Fabulous technical command and often exciting new thinking about this familiar repertoire.
Mr Hayato Sumino, Japan - Although I didn't think he played quite as well in the third round as in the previous rounds, I still think that his absence from the finals is a loss for the Competition
Mr Andrzej Wierciński, Poland

[HT]

Op zondag 17 oktober 2021 om 06:44:32 UTC+2 schreef Al Eisner:

<g> Cateen seems to be the name of Sumino's website.

https://www.youtube.com/user/chopin8810

Henk

[HT]

Op zondag 17 oktober 2021 om 06:53:57 UTC+2 schreef Al Eisner:

Perhaps I should have created a new subject line: "Competition Chopin - finals". Somehow I didn't feel like it. The competition has ended here for me with Stage III. What a mess.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

On Sunday, 17 October 2021 at 10:02:18 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Perhaps I should have created a new subject line: "Competition Chopin - finals". Somehow I didn't feel like it. The competition has ended here for me with Stage III. What a mess.
> > Henk

I hear you loud and clear, Henk. I've enjoyed your insightful commentary on the competition.

No way I'm listening to a dozen Chopin piano concerti from the pianists they've let through.

The Leeds added a chamber music round, which was very successful for me. It wouldn't be impossible to include his cello sonata or Piano Trio. I'm not a big fan of either though.

[JohnGavin]

Just a note about one of the judges, Adam Harasiewicz - he’s almost 90 years old and won the competition in 1955. Michelangeli refused to sign on because he favored Ashkenazy. History would suggest that ABM was right, but maybe you had to be there. Mr. H seemed very sharp and healthy, conversing with other judges. A nice side story I think.

[Herman]

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 10:38:42 AM UTC+2, Chris from Lafayette wrote:

>
> I will say that, in general, I agree with you about the jury's decisions - I'm just not sure what wavelength they're on when they allow a "bull in the china shop" like Garcia Garcia to pass, and yet, as you say, shut the door on a real artist like Kim. I think it will be hard to predict their final decisions. The list below contains the third-round competitors who did not advance too.
>

I'm particularly baffled at expanding the finals to twelve and letting in someone like MGGarcia. Or for that matter Eva G.
I'm struck by the way in some cases the comments and judgements seem to be gendered in a weird way. So in the case of Eva G. all males of a certain maturity (or lack thereof) are saying she's a 'babe', which seems to mean she is a young, blonde female with long hair. (It's totally besides the point but I don't think anyone who would encounter her IRL would think she's remarkably pretty or attractive. On the contrary, my GF looked and summed up the many ways in which EG was rather unattractive. I find it totally beserk to even discuss this, but you were talking about her babeness, and "star power is star power seems to solidify the narrative. Shades of Hatto coming...)
In the case of Michelle Candotti I couldn't help but notice people commenting on the way she looked like Martha Argerich. They meant MG's got long hair, too. Well, that's astute. They were also saying her hands were too small for Chopin. One look and you can tell Candotti's hands are not small, but she is a woman, and for some people 'woman' means babe or small hands and weak.
I'm fine with Candotti not going to the finals. She was not a standout interpreter. Also there's something in her presentation, the way she takes her bows, that says Don't Pick Me. In this respect she was the 180 degrees opposite of Bruce Liu, who faced the audience, after his sweat-drenched recital with a smile that said: You Know You Gotta Give the Nr 1 Prize Now.
I'm equally fine with Miyu Shindo not going to the finals. She's a remarkable interpreter of Chopin, shut your eyes and you'll hear incredible playing. However if you do the stuff she was doing in front of a jury largely composed of pedagogues you're going to face the consequences. It's not even the faces, but rather all the superfluous hand and arm gestures. They don't like that.
Leonora Armelli. She was just fine, but why she was promoted to the finals and Kim wasn't, just doesn't make sense.
As I said before, I'm not going to follow the piano concertos too closely. The 3d round was the finals for me. I predict Liu will win big.

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 5:48:29 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:

> I'm struck by the way in some cases the comments and judgements seem to be gendered in a weird way. So in the case of Eva G. all males of a certain maturity (or lack thereof) are saying she's a 'babe', which seems to mean she is a young, blonde female with long hair. (It's totally besides the point but I don't think anyone who would encounter her IRL would think she's remarkably pretty or attractive. On the contrary, my GF looked and summed up the many ways in which EG was rather unattractive. I find it totally beserk to even discuss this, but you were talking about her babeness, and "star power is star power seems to solidify the narrative. Shades of Hatto coming...)
> In the case of Michelle Candotti I couldn't help but notice people commenting on the way she looked like Martha Argerich. They meant MG's got long hair, too. Well, that's astute. They were also saying her hands were too small for Chopin. One look and you can tell Candotti's hands are not small, but she is a woman, and for some people 'woman' means babe or small hands and weak.
> I'm fine with Candotti not going to the finals. She was not a standout interpreter. Also there's something in her presentation, the way she takes her bows, that says Don't Pick Me. In this respect she was the 180 degrees opposite of Bruce Liu, who faced the audience, after his sweat-drenched recital with a smile that said: You Know You Gotta Give the Nr 1 Prize Now.
> I'm equally fine with Miyu Shindo not going to the finals. She's a remarkable interpreter of Chopin, shut your eyes and you'll hear incredible playing. However if you do the stuff she was doing in front of a jury largely composed of pedagogues you're going to face the consequences. It's not even the faces, but rather all the superfluous hand and arm gestures. They don't like that.
> Leonora Armelli. She was just fine, but why she was promoted to the finals and Kim wasn't, just doesn't make sense.
> As I said before, I'm not going to follow the piano concertos too closely. The 3d round was the finals for me. I predict Liu will win big.

I kind of agree with you that Eva is not the most babeliocious pianist I've ever seen. But she does know how to command what assets she has - I think of Andy's report about her flirting with the interviewer. IOW, she knows what star power is and how to use it! ;-)

And I disagree with you that Eva would not be in the finals except for her looks. If you compare her Mazurka, Op. 17 No. 4 with Shindo's, the advantages are all in Eva's favor - just on the playing alone. You don't even have to be watching. Shindo's rubato was overused and predictable (i.e., she would do the same type of rubato every time a certain figure would appear), whereas Eva was much more imaginative in her use of rubato, even though she played with a lot of it too. As for the totality of everything Eva has played so far however, I didn't agree with everything she did, and I do not expect her to win first prize - but she might place fairly high, depending on her concerto performance.

[Herman]

On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 11:26:18 PM UTC+2, Chris from Lafayette wrote:
>
>
> And I disagree with you that Eva would not be in the finals except for her looks. [...] As for the totality of everything Eva has played so far however, I didn't agree with everything she did, and I do not expect her to win first prize - but she might place fairly high, depending on her concerto performance.

Okay... except I didn't say she was in the finals for her looks because I think her looks aren't that remarkable, unless one measures 'looks' by hair inches. If the jury were like that Candotti, whose hairdo, dress etc said 'pretty girl' all over would be practicing the concerto now.
I don't know why 'Eva' is in the finals. Just like I don't know why Su Yeon Kim is not.
The finalist with maximum star power looks is Bruce Liu. He looks the winner part.

[Herman]

Well, that was a fun E minor concerto by Sorita, beautifully played.

The cinductor and the audience were clearly pleased, and Sorita is probably still shaking everybody's hands in the basement.

[JohnGavin]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 3:39:43 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> Well, that was a fun E minor concerto by Sorita, beautifully played.
>
> The cinductor and the audience were clearly pleased, and Sorita is probably still shaking everybody's hands in the basement.

Saw bits of all 4 contestants. They all deserve high praise. Wednesday’s announcements will be bittersweet for sure. They all seemed to have given their all!

[JohnGavin]

I’m wondering at this point if anyone will choose the F Minor Concerto.

[Herman]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 9:59:18 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 3:39:43 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> > Well, that was a fun E minor concerto by Sorita, beautifully played.
> >

> > The conductor and the audience were clearly pleased, and Sorita is probably still shaking everybody's hands in the basement.

> Saw bits of all 4 contestants. They all deserve high praise. Wednesday’s announcements will be bittersweet for sure. They all seemed to have given their all!

I'm watching Leonora Armellini now. She's quite a bit rougher than Sorita.

I think she is a fun person, but I would be suprised if she came near the top 3.

[Andy Evans]

I suppose I should watch one or other concerto, but I don't find them very interesting.

I did check Sorito in the Prokofiev 3rd and thought it was rather bland. I put on Argerich afterwards and indeed she was considerably more nuanced and interesting.

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 12:39:43 PM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> Well, that was a fun E minor concerto by Sorita, beautifully played.
>

> The conductor and the audience were clearly pleased, and Sorita is probably still shaking everybody's hands in the basement.

I managed to see only Sorita's first movement on the live feed - just beautiful, and so clear in the textures! We'll watch the replay of all four who played today on YouTube tonight.

BTW, I also saw the interview with Eva and three other very young competitors - they all (including Eva) have their mothers along with them in Warsaw! ;-)

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 1:01:40 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:

> I’m wondering at this point if anyone will choose the F Minor Concerto.

Only three of the twelve finalists are playing the F minor - at least according to the schedule on the Chopin Competition site.

[Herman]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 11:03:42 PM UTC+2, Chris from Lafayette wrote:

>
> BTW, I also saw the interview with Eva and three other very young competitors - they all (including Eva) have their mothers along with them in Warsaw! ;-)

In an interview with Gadjiev I got the impression that another set, among whom were the Italian veterans Armellini and Candotti, was eating together and trying to have some fun.

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, October 18, 2021 at 4:01:40 PM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
>
> I’m wondering at this point if anyone
> will choose the F Minor Concerto.

Chopin competition finalists have
historically shown a roughly 2:1
bias towards the E minor.

[JohnGavin]

I said that yesterday’s concerto contestants had given their all. After watching Mr. Sorita’s performance this morning I’d say he gave his all as well - except his all is more. This surplus, if we can call it that, allowed for a more relaxed, creative and heartfelt interpretation so far.

[JohnGavin]

Just tuned in to be surprised by an F Minor amidst the ocean of E Minors. What a relief! The F Minor was actually composed before #1. This is reminding me that it is not inferior to the other, just briefer. The 1st movement is more improvisatory than the E minor. Equally beautiful slow movement, last movement not quite as good but unique with its rececitative section and break-out Mazurka towards the end.

Mr. Garcia x2 is being well behaved! In an intermission interview he was very funny and personably - very nice playing, but not quite top ranking.

Why so many E Minors? Apparently because every single winner from the beginning played it.

[Herman]

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 8:18:24 PM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
>
>
> Why so many E Minors? Apparently because every single winner from the beginning played it.

I like the F minor too with the middle mvt drama and the mazurka in the finale.
It's the one I used to listen to when I was young, I believe with Tamas Vasary .

However I believe there are more typical competition type technical hurdles in the E minor. and that's why contestants tend to choose the E minor.