Naxos Missed a Bet with Paul Le Flem

[D Krause]

When I was in Paris a month or so ago, I picked up a handful of recordings
on the Naxos Patrimoine label -- that's the designation under which HNH
sells some titles at a super-budget price, that otherwise appear outside
France (and Quebec?) on the full-price Marco Polo label. (Though whether
any CDs qualify as budget-priced in France is a moot point; people outside
the US have a right to bitch about high CD prices.)

A pleasant surprise among these acquisitions was the music of the 20th
century Breton composer Paul Le Flem, on Naxos Patrimoine 8.550981 (outside
France, Marco Polo 8.223655 [http://www.hnh.com/catalogue/223655.htm]).
(The Fanfare review of this disc notes that most of the material originally
appeared on a recording on the Cybelia label, which I've never seen.)
Frankly, given that Naxos was willing to give a shot on its regular Naxos
label to the worthy but not much better known Ernest Chausson, I think the
company missed a bet by not similarly marketing Le Flem at the lower Naxos
price. This is music of Debussyan charm, perhaps a little skewed toward the
Children's Corner Suite rather than La Mer -- perhaps not surprisingly so,
given that part of the Le Flem CD is given over to his Sept Pieces
Enfantines -- and I believe that Naxos could have shifted enough units to
have made it worthwhile, rather than going for the lower sales numbers that
come with a full-priced Marco Polo release. To stretch a metaphor, Le Flem
is not only in the same ballpark as Debussy, he's batting right behind him
in the line-up. God knows, that in the Anglophone world, Debussy represents
much of the adored face of French culture (sure sign of acceptance: when a
composer's music shows up in ice-skating routines, a la Torvill & Dean's use
of Ravel's Bolero), and anything this similar could find at least some small
measure of favor.

Highest recommendation. As the Le Flem CD's annotator Michel Fleury puts
it, 'Plus que toute autre, l'oeuvre musicale de Paul Le Flem propose une
incursion dans le "bois sacre" du rêve.' True.

Interesting sidebar: the bio dates given for Le Flem are a notable 1881 to
1984 (!). The last date for a composition that I find in the CD notes is
1975, meaning that Le Flem was over 94 when he wrote it. I'm sure that
somewhere in the annals of musical history, there's a longer-lived composer,
and one who produced works at a greater age, but is it possible that Le Flem
takes the prize for longest-lived and oldest producing 20th century
composer? Anyone got a candidate whose stats beat those?

Happy listening.

[D Krause]

Of course, I should have said, longest-lived, etc., 20th century composer
_so far_, or to put it another way, among those 20th century composers
whose stat numbers are no longer increasing, i.e. they're dead.

Happy listening.

[Dave Gomberg]

[This followup was posted to rec.music.classical.recordings and a copy was sent to the cited author.]

In article <3851...@news.nwlink.com>, rese...@altavista.net [D. Krause]
says...
[big snip]

> Interesting sidebar: the bio dates given for Le Flem are a notable 1881 to
> 1984 (!). The last date for a composition that I find in the CD notes is
> 1975, meaning that Le Flem was over 94 when he wrote it. I'm sure that
> somewhere in the annals of musical history, there's a longer-lived composer,
> and one who produced works at a greater age, but is it possible that Le Flem
> takes the prize for longest-lived and oldest producing 20th century
> composer? Anyone got a candidate whose stats beat those?

From http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~wac/news/1998_06/feature.html

In 1892 a child was born in Russia who quickly showed signs of great
musical ability and by the age of 22 was astounding European and American
audiences, critics and musicians with his compositions and pianism. In
1998 Leo Ornstein lives quietly in Wisconsin. His self-imposed retirement
from the mainstream of musical life resulted in his obscurity, yet for a
time his creativity was hailed in the same category as Schoenberg's and
Stravinsky's. Until the early 1990s he continued to compose and with
performances, recordings and publications his legacy to American music is
finally being recognized.

[Lots more follows - go look at it. And, AFAIK, Ornstein is still among
us.]

Anyway, Leo makes Le Flem look like a piker.

Dave Gomberg

[D Krause]

Ornstein's stats are indeed impressive. I'd say he's very likely the winner
of the 20th c. composer longevity race, at least to date.

Happy listening.

[LVeeGee]

It's too early to tell. Elliott Carter was born in December of 1908 and has
just composed his first opera. Like the energizer bunny, he just keeps on
going, but he hasn't hit 92 yet.

-david gable

[schi...@lightlink.com]

Not to get involved in yet another My Dad can beat your Dad fight, but
..
Dave Gomberg writes:
>Anyhow, Leo makes Le Flem look like a piker.
In what respect?
-Eric Schissel, who rather respects what he knows of both

[D Krause]

<schi...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:38515...@news2.lightlink.com...

> >Anyhow, Leo makes Le Flem look like a piker.
> In what respect?

Perhaps "piker" isn't the best word to use; maybe something like "young pup"
would be more appropriate.

I suppose Alan Hovhaness (b. 1911) is still in the running, though he has
quite a ways to go to catch up with either Le Flem or Ornstein in the stat
book.

Happy listening.

[Dave Gomberg]

In article <38515...@news2.lightlink.com>, schi...@lightlink.com
says...

> Not to get involved in yet another My Dad can beat your Dad fight, but
> ..
> Dave Gomberg writes:

> >Anyhow, Leo makes Le Flem look like a piker.
> In what respect?

> -Eric Schissel, who rather respects what he knows of both

I only meant in terms of longevity (relatively, of course).
I meant nothing derogatory.

Dave Gomberg

[schi...@lightlink.com]

I'd be the first to admit that I overreact on the drop of a pin (ouch! ok,
who did that...)
;)-Eric Schissel

[Jonathan Towle]

Hey, gents, what about Elliott Carter! He was born in 1908 and is still
alive. That means that, as of tomorrow, he will have lived a full 91 years
in the twentieth century. I know some of you may find his music a bit
tough, and it does take getting used to, but longevity he's got.

[schi...@lightlink.com]

Much as a like playing these list games, I think one of the original conditions
was that the composer in question be deceased. (See the original two posts
on the subject.) William Havergal Brian came close, composing his last two
symphonies in 1968 at age 92 (2 years short of Le Flem's 94) and dying 4
years later in 1972 at age 96. I don't know other examples of not-currently-
alive composers and works written after age 94- offhand. But I enjoy these
games...
(Sorry, scratch "other"- I don't know .any. examples. Yet.)
-Eric Schissel

[schi...@lightlink.com]

For some good candidates for composers who lived a long time, load in the
webpage

http://www.classical.net/music/composer/dates/comp6.html

and go to the bottom. Mind you, not all these composers were still composing
to the end. .That. requires further research.
(Thanks, Mr. Lampson and Classical Net.)
-Eric Schissel

[D Krause]

<schi...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:3851a...@news2.lightlink.com...

> Much as a like playing these list games, I think one of the original
conditions
> was that the composer in question be deceased. (See the original two
posts
> on the subject.)

I think what I was muddling toward was that until all currently living
composers are deceased, we won't be able to declare an absolute 20th century
winner. Any number of younger composers could conceivably live longer
lifespans than either Paul Le Flem or Leo Ornstein, but right at the moment,
Ornstein has the longevity and late-productivity lead and continues to rack
up the miles, AFAIK.

It is possible though to state a 19th century winner, 18th c., etc., and an
all-time (minus those currently still alive) champ. Candidates?

Happy listening.

[D Krause]

<schi...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:3851a...@news2.lightlink.com...

> For some good candidates for composers who lived a long time, load in the

> webpage
>
> http://www.classical.net/music/composer/dates/comp6.html
>
> and go to the bottom. Mind you, not all these composers were still
composing
> to the end. .That. requires further research.

Hm. According to that Classical Net list, even if Jan Adam Reincken was
composing right up until the day he died (I know, I know, and now he's
decomposing), at age 99, Leo Ornstein still has him beat.

That's a pretty good list, but it's obviously not completely exhaustive
(doesn't have Le Flem on it, for one thing). So there must be some other
candidates who escaped Lampson's "net."

Happy listening.

[schi...@lightlink.com]

As to composers escaping Lampson's net- actually I'm not sure who compiled
that particular list, it's on Mr. Lampson's site which is why I thanked
him specifically instead of the person who compiled the list, and I realize
it's not exhaustive- that's why you're able to load it in finite time
without having to go for a cup of coffee :) (how many volumes are in the
New Groves?) *g*
;);)
There have been a .lot. of composers. A fact that I treasure- not many have
been first, second or even third rank, but many have had something to say
that I have wanted to hear and have valued hearing.
To music!!
-Eric Schissel
;)

[Carter@marcopolo26.freeserve.co.uk John Carter]

the La Flem 4th Symphony appeared in Britain on Marco Polo, and very good it
it, the First , early symphony is available on the Timpani label, (French) I
also have a tape of the Third Symphony source unknown but by its sound not
very recent.
I think though that the 4th is the best of the three.Marco Polo did a
wonderful French series, Schmidt, Roger-Ducasse,Koechlin and a great many
more.There is also the delightful Flemish series. Why these recordings did
not gain wide popularity or even review shows just how limited the
repertoire horizon is, and maybe underlines the danger that the American
classics might face.
HNH has been very courageous in its repertoire but the buyers remain timid.
John Carter Barsoom
D Krause wrote in message <3851...@news.nwlink.com>...

>Interesting sidebar: the bio dates given for Le Flem are a notable 1881 to
>1984 (!). The last date for a composition that I find in the CD notes is
>1975, meaning that Le Flem was over 94 when he wrote it. I'm sure that
>somewhere in the annals of musical history, there's a longer-lived
composer,
>and one who produced works at a greater age, but is it possible that Le
Flem
>takes the prize for longest-lived and oldest producing 20th century
>composer? Anyone got a candidate whose stats beat those?
>

>Happy listening.
>
>

[Raymond Hall]

How about the ole Hovhaness - he must be well into his eighties by now?

Regards,

Ray Hall, Sydney

[Matthew B. Tepper]

In article <3851...@news.nwlink.com>, rese...@altavista.net is reputed
to have iterated as follows...

>
><schi...@lightlink.com> wrote in message
>news:3851a...@news2.lightlink.com...
>

Wasn't there a French operetta composer who lived to be at least 101?
Nicolas Slonimsky (who himself lived to that age, although as "merely" a
musicologist he stands outside the specifics of this discussion of
long-lived composers) talks for a while about such extremes in the intros
to at least a couple of editions of _Baker's_.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

(schi...@lightlink.com) writes:
> Much as a like playing these list games, I think one of the original conditions
> was that the composer in question be deceased. (See the original two posts

> on the subject.) William Havergal Brian came close, composing his last two
> symphonies in 1968 at age 92 (2 years short of Le Flem's 94) and dying 4
> years later in 1972 at age 96. I don't know other examples of not-currently-
> alive composers and works written after age 94- offhand. But I enjoy these
> games...
> (Sorry, scratch "other"- I don't know .any. examples. Yet.)
> -Eric Schissel
>

We probably shouldn't forget Otto Leuning, who I think was 96 when he died
and still working.

Brendan

[jan winter]

You toast with coffee? :-)
--
regards,

jan winter, amsterdam
(j.wi...@xs4all.nl)

music is the healing force of the universe
(Albert Ayler)

[schi...@lightlink.com]

Actually, I toast with toast and tea... but good one :)
-Eric Schissel