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Pristine Classical release: Furtwängler's 1953 RAI Ring - 1. Das Rheingold

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Andrew Rose

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Apr 8, 2011, 10:42:52 AM4/8/11
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New release today:

FURTWÄNGLER 1953 Ring Cycle: 1. Das Rheingold

Orchestra Sinfonica di Roma della RAI
conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler
Recorded by Radio Audizioni Italiane (RAI) 26 October, 1953,
Auditorio del Foro Italico, Rome

Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Andrew Rose

Downloads include full scores of each scene


CAST

Wotan Ferdinand Frantz
Donner Alfred Poell
Froh Lorenz Fehenberger
Loge Wolfgang Windgassen
Fricka Ira Malaniuk
Freia Elisabeth Grümmer
Erda Ruth Siewert
Alberich Gustav Neidlinger
Mime Julius Patzak
Fasolt Josef Greindl
Fafner Gottlob Frick
Woglinde Sena Jurinac
Wellgunde Magda Gabory
Flosshilde Hilde Rössl-Majdan

Web page:
http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO057.php


Short Notes

Recorded for Italian radio broadcasts in 1953, this is the first of the
four operas which make up what is closest to being Furtwängler's only
'studio' Ring Cycle, and one of only two complete Rings known to exist
in recordings under his baton.

Upon it's LP issue in 1972, the Gramophone critic stated that their
release was "the gramophone event of the century" - in opening a review
which lasts almost as long as the entire cycle!

Yet it has always been hampered by below-par sound quality, something
which has, astonishingly, been made worse on certain later CD reissues.
This release changes all that, offering the first of the four operas in
a clarity and vividness of sound never before imagined or obtained. An
absolutely essential listen.

Notes on the transfers:

There are two full recordings of Wagner's Ring cycle conducted by
Furtwängler, but neither is the full studio recording planned by EMI to
begin in 1954 and left incomplete by the conductor's death at the age of
68 on 30th November of that year. There is a 1950 recording of his La
Scala cycle, and this, a series of recordings made for broadcast on
Italian radio (RAI) across ten sessions in October and November 1953 in
front of a very quiet invited audience. The final broadcasts were cut
from both these recordings and taped rehearsal sessions, as chosen by
Furtwängler and the RAI engineers the day after recording.

The recordings were broadcast a short time after but were not
commercially issued until the early 1970s on LP by EMI. Generally the
sound quality I've been able to achieve from these recordings - after
some considerable difficulties - has been remarkably fine. However the
first Scene is of a dimmer sound quality than the rest of the opera, for
reasons which are probably now lost to time. Thereafter, despite some
variable and occasionally noticeable (but not intrusive) hiss, the sound
is generally excellent for a radio recording of this era.

[I note that a remastered issue of this recording appeared on another
label in around 2005 which has garnered some comment and praise from
reviewers at Amazon.com. Gramophone, in 2005, referred to it have been
transferred "...at a higher volume, and exchanges detail for warmth. It
remains adequate radiophonic mono...". I was able to obtain an excerpt
of this transfer for comparison when preparing this edition and it
really is rather dismal - with extensive peak compression (hence the
"higher volume" and a highly restricted frequency range remeniscent of
AM radio. In every respect what I heard was a major sonic downgrade from
the original EMI vinyl release, and I'm surprised at the esteem in which
it has been held by some listeners.]

Review of original LP issue (excerpt!)

"I won't mince words, but say straightaway that the Ring is the supreme
large-scale musical achievement of the human mind, that Furtwangler has
been the greatest conductor of the work over the last sixty years, and
that this HMV box of records is therefore the gramophone event of the
century.

Before any gramophile seizes pen and paper to write a strongly-worded
protest against this categorical statement, I'd better stress that the
phrase I've used is "gramophone event". The gramophone achievement of
the century, surely, is the Decca recording of Wagner's work, in which
Georg Solti, John Culshaw and Gordon Parry collaborated-the first-ever
and truly magnificent gramophonic presentation of the Ring. The DGG
recording, master-minded by Herbert von Karajan, came second of course;
this month it's issued as a complete entity (as the Decca has been), and
in my opinion, despite its many virtues (referred to below), it does in
fact come second to the Decca. [The cast details can be found on page
552-Ed.] Actually, the Furtwangler Ring isn't a gramophonic achievement
at all, but a radio achievement-except that, since it happened, certain
people in EMI have moved heaven and earth to make it permanently
available on disc to music-lovers. The whole story is fascinating in
itself, so I'd better begin with it.

In 1952, David Bicknell, then the Manager of EMI's International Artists
Department, renewed Furtwangler's exclusive contract with the company,
and agreed with him that their main task should be to collaborate in a
complete recording of the Ring with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra.
So EMI hoped to be first in the field with a complete recording of the
Ring, and would have been, but for fate. They began with Die Walkiire,
which was completed in October 1954, was first issued in September 1955
on HMV mono ALP125761, later reissued as HQM1019-23 (4/66) and only
recently deleted. Furtwdngler was so pleased with it that he said, "Now
let us finish the other operas as soon as possible". But eight weeks
later he died ; and it seemed that his incomparable interpretation of
the whole Ring had gone with him to the grave -or rather, was
evaporating into the cosmos, in soundwaves progressing to an infinite
faintness.

However, the previous year, Furtwangler had recorded the Ring complete
for Rome Radio; and after his death, it was realised that this radio
tape was the only preserved recording of his interpretation of the whole
work. Immediately, negotiations began between EMI and Radio Italiana,
with a view to issuing the recording commercially; but nothing came of
it, since two of the singers on the tape had exclusive contracts with a
rival record company, which refused to waive them. It was only in the
late nineteen-sixties, after continued pleas from Furtwangler's widow
and the formation of the Wilhelm Furtwangler Society (founded in 1967,
partly to recover every existing recording made by him), that
negotiations began again and resulted in an agreement that EMI should
issue the performance on disc-the last major project of David Bicknell
before his retirement last year. The discs have been made from copy
tapes prepared in Italy from the metal positives held in RAI Archives;
and since the sound, after so many years, was of variable quality, the
EMI engineers have had to work hard to produce a uniform and
satisfactory sound. I can only congratulate them on the result, which is
remarkably vivid for a recording made in 1953...

...The superlative quality of Furtwangler's interpretation resides in
his awareness that the Ring is not in any sense a beautiful and
sophisticated work, a la Karajan, or a frenetically violent work, a la
Solti, but a stark, heavy, brooding work, a profound tragedy set in a
primitive world of ancient Teutonic gods and heroes, to whom every
action and event is of the utmost existential importance-a la Wagner.
And it should not be thought that this awareness translates itself into
an interpretation purely by means of adopting slower tempi: for
instance, Furtwangler's prelude to Act 2 of Die Walkiire is taken at the
same driving speed as that of Solti, but it is even more gripping
because of the weight he brings to bear on the music at that tempo. But
the most remarkable thing about Furtwangler's interpretation is the way
he brings out the meaning of every detail of the score, a good example
being the very first scene of Das Rheingold. Here the tempo is actually
slower than those of Solti and Karajan, and it serves to give a lovely
lazy lilt to the music of the Rhinemaidens (who after all are supposed
to be basking happily in the pleasurable world of unspoilt nature) ; but
one realises the full significance of this tempo when the gold lights up
and the Rhinemaidens begin their ecstatic song in praise of it, since
the flashing scales of semiquavers on the violins make their full impact
as the kind of watery vibration Wagner meant them to be, whereas with
Solti and Karajan they flash by so quickly that they become no more than
a general wash of sound. In purely musical terms, violins cannot
properly articulate staccato semiquavers above a certain speed. Again,
when Alberich begins climbing up from the lower depths of the Rhine, and
gets in a temper because the water sets him sneezing, Furtwángler gives
full weight to the vicious little phrase of four descending
demisemiquavers and two ascending semiquavers which gives us our first
glimpse of Alberich's sadistic nature, and is to return when he starts
bullying Mime in the third scene; but with both Solti and Karajan, the
tempo is too quick to allow this phrase to register at all clearly.

One could go on giving examples throughout the whole score, but this
would be to ignore a more positive and indefinable quality of
Furtwangler's interpretation-his ability to make the music surge, or
seethe, or melt, so that one has left the world of semiquavers
altogether, and is swept up in a great spiritual experience. Furtwdngler
himself said: "However vast the scope of a Wagner opera may be, it is
still made up of countless individual strands, and only the correct
tempo can tie these together. The real task of the conductor-especially
in Wagner-is to produce a consistent tempo. There are never 'segments'
or rough divisions; everything flows smoothly. Wagner once called
himself 'the master of transition', and rightly so". This performance of
the Ring is a superb practical demonstration of Furtwangler's theory,
since the tempi adopted are so exactly right as to allow every strand of
the music to express itself to the full. One has heard the Ring many
times, and one feels that one knows just what to expect from the many
great peaks of the score; but hearing them again under Furtwdngler-the
Descent to Nibelheim, the love-duet in Act 1 of Die Walkiire, the Ride
of the Valkyries, Siegfried's forging of the sword, Siegfried's Funeral
March, and the closing scene of Giitterdammerung-one realises that there
is far more in this music than one has got out of it since one last
heard Furtwangler..."

D. C. The Gramophone, September 1972 - Full review at gramophone.net


MP3 Sample - Scene Three: "Nehmt euch in acht!":
http://tinyurl.com/PACO057

This week's Newsletter: http://tinyurl.com/PANL08042011

--
Andrew Rose

Pristine Classical: "The destination for people interested in historic
recordings..." (Gramophone)

www.pristineclassical.com


wkasimer

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Apr 8, 2011, 11:21:37 AM4/8/11
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On Apr 8, 10:42 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:

> [I note that a remastered issue of this recording appeared on another
> label in around 2005 which has garnered some comment and praise from
> reviewers at Amazon.com. Gramophone, in 2005, referred to it have been
> transferred "...at a higher volume, and exchanges detail for warmth. It
> remains adequate radiophonic mono...". I was able to obtain an excerpt
> of this transfer for comparison when preparing this edition and it
> really is rather dismal - with extensive peak compression (hence the
> "higher volume" and a highly restricted frequency range remeniscent of
> AM radio. In every respect what I heard was a major sonic downgrade from
> the original EMI vinyl release, and I'm surprised at the esteem in which
> it has been held by some listeners.]

I'm sorry, but exactly what is the point of making a comparison
between your transfer and the awful Archipel (or was it Gebhardt?)
transfer? The only thing that most sensible people would want to know
is how your transfer stacks up against the EMI CD transfer, which is
available for under $50.

Bill

Randy Lane

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Apr 8, 2011, 11:57:03 AM4/8/11
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I sadly messed an eBay sale a few months ago of Japanese LPs that went
for a mere $100
Ever since I first heard the set in the 1970s I've wondered if the
Japanese could do a better job with it.

ivanmaxim

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Apr 8, 2011, 12:10:42 PM4/8/11
to
> Japanese could do a better job with it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The one LP set to avoid is the absolutely dreadful DDM LP version EMI
issued around 1980 (this is when they were issuing all the DDM LP
sets) - the sound was terribly cramped sounding, received terrible
reviews up and down and was quickly withdrawn - you see copies show up
now and again on ebay.

Andrew Rose

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Apr 9, 2011, 11:29:10 AM4/9/11
to
On 08/04/2011 17:21, wkasimer wrote:
> I'm sorry, but exactly what is the point of making a comparison
> between your transfer and the awful Archipel (or was it Gebhardt?)

Because Amazon's comments are full of people stating the Gebhardt is
better than the EMI, and because Gramophone in 2005 refers to the
Gebhardt as being the "current" issue. To be perfectly frank it's
abysmal - and if people prefer it to the EMI CDs then what does that say
about them or the EMI reissue?

Unfortunately I wasn't prepared to stump up the $$$ required just to
prove to myself that the EMI was no better than my own - my original
correspondent stated that they were considerably worse than EMI's 1972
LPs, hence his request for me to tackle the set.

The final judgement of course, unlike in the case of the EMI CD issue to
which I've been unable to find any audio clip, is left to the ears of
the potential purchaser, in the offer of an extended section from the
third scene either to download or to stream from our site, which I hope
will tell you as much as you need to know about what to expect from our
release:

http://tinyurl.com/PACO057

I merely wished to bring to the attention of those who might (a) find
the EMI issue on Amazon, then (b) follow the comments beneath it to the
Gebhardt, that I found the latter to be a rather dismal affair. It has
severely restricted frequency range and is badly overloaded. Tis but an
opinion, albeit one backed up by a serious analysis of the product.

ivanmaxim

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Apr 9, 2011, 12:25:06 PM4/9/11
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The Gebhardt is awful - the sound is raucous and distorted and the
Furtwangler bass is severely diminished. Wagner fan

Randy Lane

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Apr 9, 2011, 12:47:12 PM4/9/11
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Does anyone know for sure (i.e., by personal acquaintence/hearing/
owning) if the new issue this year by EMI is from the same masters as
the original EMI CD release, or is it "new"?

ivanmaxim

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Apr 9, 2011, 12:55:25 PM4/9/11
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> the original EMI CD release, or is it "new"?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I would be very surprised if any kind of new remastering was used for
this new budget reissue - and the 1990 EMI CDs were fine. Wagner fan

wkasimer

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Apr 9, 2011, 8:18:32 PM4/9/11
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On Apr 9, 11:29 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:

> Because Amazon's comments are full of people stating the Gebhardt is
> better than the EMI, and because Gramophone in 2005 refers to the
> Gebhardt as being the "current" issue. To be perfectly frank it's
> abysmal - and if people prefer it to the EMI CDs then what does that say
> about them or the EMI reissue?

I pay very little attention to Amazon reviews, particularly when it
comes to sonics. One never knows what sort of equipment these people
listen on. I've heard the EMI transfer, and it sounds fine, much
better than the Gebhardt.

Bill

Bill Hong

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Apr 11, 2011, 3:09:41 PM4/11/11
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Definitely agree--the Gebhardt made me cross them off my list for any
future purchases.
Even looking at the waveforms in any editing software shows the sound
is horrid--an audio blob with little dynamic range to speak of.
And doing a little experiment, I re-boosted the hell out of both top
and bottom ends of some sound clips--there was little to no audible
difference, because there wasn't any top/bottom end to boost!

BH

ivanmaxim

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Apr 12, 2011, 6:11:44 AM4/12/11
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I am listening to the Pristine release as a mono download and I am
impressed. In the EMI CD set you are listening to the performance from
lets say 8th row orchestra - there is nice reverberation around the
voices and the orchestra is warm and full. In the Pristine mono
download you are really much closer to the orchestra and the voices -
you hear much more detail in both orchestra and voices (along with
some orchestral slips along the way) but the ever important Furtwanger
bass is there - its more exciting to hear. Rheingold was always the
worst sounding of this set so I'm anxious to hear the rest. Wagner
fan

Andrew Rose

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Apr 12, 2011, 7:10:01 AM4/12/11
to
On 08/04/2011 17:21, wkasimer wrote:
> I'm sorry, but exactly what is the point of making a comparison
> between your transfer and the awful Archipel (or was it Gebhardt?)
> transfer? The only thing that most sensible people would want to know
> is how your transfer stacks up against the EMI CD transfer, which is
> available for under $50.


OK, having just bought a brand new set of EMI CDs (in a new 2011 issue
of their 1990 remastering) which arrived this morning I'm now in a
position to describe to you what I've heard.

I've lined up the straight LP transfer of the second half of Das
Rheingold against CD2 of EMI's box and our own finished second CD
master. By switching between each without any pause in playback it's
simple to make direct comparisons. Here's my conclusion, based, I should
stress, only on this particular disc of the set:

The 1990/2011 EMI CDs are abysmal. The sound is a really considerable
step down in quality from their 1972 LPs.

I cannot believe that EMI (a) put these out in 1990, and (b) has
reissued the same terrible mastering, albeit at a cut-price rate, in
2011. (The 2011 CDs I found on Amazon France - not sure how widely
available they are yet - they cost me just under €30 and come as a set
of 13 audio CDs plus a CD-ROM which claims to contain "synoposis and
libretto").

Whatever filtering they used has reduced background noise at the expense
of musical content, leaving the voices sounding cramped and not a little
telephonic. There is distortion present around the 3000Hz area which
would soon become tiring and then (at any volume) painful on the ears,
all of which adds to the telephonic effect.

Given the choice between starting from the LPs or starting from the CDs
in order to create a newly remastered version today there's no doubt in
my mind that the original EMI LPs would be (and are) my preferred source.

I'm awaiting a set of CDs from Gebhardt, as I've received a number of
e-mails strongly questioning my statement (which I've now removed from
the website) regarding this issue - this is not because I doubt my
judgement on what I heard, rather than I have a small question mark
around the authenticity of the source I managed to obtain. Until I've
got the genuine CDs in my hands I'll withdraw my comments, though I note
they've been echoed here by some.

So, coming soon to subscribers to our newsletter, win a brand new
box-set of EMI CDs - I'm afraid I'll be keeping the vinyl...

ivanmaxim

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Apr 12, 2011, 9:44:07 AM4/12/11
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Andrew - bad news is that if you think the EMI is bad - wait till you
hear the Gebhardt. Good news is that the Pristine transfer is the best
so far - wonderful detail and color combined with weight - it was
exciting to hear. Wagner fan

Andrew Rose

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Apr 12, 2011, 9:57:26 AM4/12/11
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I heard a clip of the Gebhardt on the BBC Radio 3 website and it sounded
promising - more so than what I've got here - hence my concern about the
somewhat dubious origins of my clips. I've also had correspondence from
a regular customer who also claims great things for it. I should have a
copy (used) within the next day or two so I'll be able to hear for myself.

Still, nothing like a good prize draw competition to encourage
readership of the newsletter! :-)

wkasimer

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Apr 13, 2011, 7:59:47 AM4/13/11
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On Apr 12, 7:10 am, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:

> OK, having just bought a brand new set of EMI CDs (in a new 2011 issue
> of their 1990 remastering) which arrived this morning I'm now in a
> position to describe to you what I've heard.
>
> I've lined up the straight LP transfer of the second half of Das
> Rheingold against CD2 of EMI's box and our own finished second CD
> master. By switching between each without any pause in playback it's
> simple to make direct comparisons. Here's my conclusion, based, I should
> stress, only on this particular disc of the set:
>
> The 1990/2011 EMI CDs are abysmal.

I just did the same A:B comparison, through headphones (Sennheiser
HD580's, powered by a Creek ABH-11 headphone amplifier), using your
free snippet from Scene 3, and the 1990 EMI issue. Keep in mind that
my office computer is in no way optimized for audio, and I was
comparing your transfer with an RBCD played back on a very good, but
not SOTA CD player (an older Marantz CD67SE). So the comparison was
set up with every advantage given to the EMI transfer.

But I agree with your conclusions. The EMI transfer sounds like dim
murk. The Pristine transfer may be a little bit harsh at climaxes
(probably because you can actually hear what was recorded, unlike with
the EMI), but in every other respect is a vast improvement - there is
orchestral detail that isn't even hinted at on the EMI, and the voices
have MUCH greater clarity and presence. I'm not sure whether it's the
source material used (I've never heard the LP's used for Pristine's
transfer, and no longer own the Seraphim LP's that were issued in the
USA), or simply the customary EMI screw-up, but the difference is
enormous - like the difference between listening to an opera broadcast
on AM vs. FM.

As Andrew and others may have noted, I've been unimpressed, even
openly hostile, to Pristine's previous offerings, but this particular
project appears to be a real sonic success. I'll be buying Rheingold
in some form (not sure if I'll go MP3 or FLAC), and look forward to
hearing the rest of the cycle.

Bill

ivanmaxim

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Apr 13, 2011, 9:11:01 AM4/13/11
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Yes I have heard the Pristine set twice now - a real pleasure and a
revelation. Note my download was the mono flac download , Wagner fan

Message has been deleted

Andrew Rose

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Apr 13, 2011, 10:01:18 AM4/13/11
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I now have the Gebhardt CDs (yuck!) and hope to be able to offer side by
side comparisons (only 30s clips, alas) of the beginning of the same
section we have online from the EMI LP, EMI CD and Gebhardt CD alongside
our own, longer sample.

Now I have the Gebhardt discs themselves I'm happy to stand by my
original comments 100% with regard to this particular opera (who knows,
they might come good in about 8 CD's time!) - peak distortion, digital
compression, highly restricted frequency range, grim EQ: it's all in there.

The upper frequency limit of this section on the Gebhardt CD is around
6.5kHz, above which there's a strong dip thanks to a heavy filter and
thereafter, going upwards, it's almost all hiss. The corresponding
section on the EMI CD shows frequency extension to about 8.5khz; there's
also what might be a rather primitive attempt at dithering, 1990-style:
heavy hiss above 14.5kHz which I can find no explanation for.

The EMI LP lacks all of this heavy digital filtering (naturally!) and
includes frequencies up to about 11kHz at which point they start to
disappear into background hiss when viewed in a spectrogram - no wonder
it sounds better than either of the two CDs.

In our own issue I've managed to squeak out perhaps a little extra at
this top end: the occasional peak suggests meaningful audio recovered by
XR remastering at up to 14kHz, but only occasionally - generally it's
reaching up to about 12kHz, all of which is what selective
high-sensitivity equalisation and very careful digital noise reduction
is able to tease out of what's on the record but was previously buried
in hiss.

The only really major shortcoming of the EMI LPs is in the pitching,
which appears to vary across the discs and at this point is rather flat.
Other than that they are a damn sight easier on the ear than the two
aforementioned CD issues, with much more information present, and as
such they are a much better starting point to try and get at the best of
what's been captured in the original recording than anything else I have
available to me.

I've not yet begun work on the rest of the cycle, but I've certainly
learned quite a bit in tackling this first part of it!

Andrew Rose

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Apr 14, 2011, 11:54:16 AM4/14/11
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For those who are interested, I've put up short excerpts from both EMI
LP and CD issues, the Gebhardt CD issue, and our own on our website,
together with very brief technical analysis notes, so you can contrast
and compare for yourself:

http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Vocal/PACO057.php

Oscar

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May 10, 2011, 4:13:54 AM5/10/11
to
On Apr 13, 6:11 am, ivanmaxim wrote:
>
> Yes I have heard thePristineset twice now - a real pleasure and a

> revelation. Note my download was the mono flac download ,  Wagner fan

Well, against my better judgment, I bought the Furtwangler RAI Ring,
direct-metal-mastered and released in 1986 on Angel Seraphim in USA on
14 LP's. I say against my better judgment because I have only read
how bad this transfer is. Well, for $40 out-the-door in, er, pristine
mint condition aside from a narrow saw mark on bottom-right front (cut-
out), I couldn't pass it up. I am listening now -- and it really
don't sound all that bad. The thick libretto is nice, too. Am I
deaf?

This public performance recording was originally made in 1953 by the
technical staff of RAI-Radiotelevisione Italiana, Rome. For EMI's
first LP version, copy tapes were prepared in Italy from the metal
positives held in the RAI archives and these tapes were subsequently
edited for LP side-lengths. The basic sound of the original recording
was of variable quality but improvements were effected at the EMI
studios in London. With the co-operation of RAI, EMI was recently
able to locate the original tapes, from which a new, digitally
remastered version has been made, taking full advantage of the very
latest techniques. Thus enhanced, this great Furtwangler performance
is once again made available to record collectors worldwide.
-Peter Andry, Director, International Classical Division, EMI Music

Andrew Rose

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May 10, 2011, 5:14:06 AM5/10/11
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On 10/05/2011 10:13, Oscar wrote:


> studios in London. With the co-operation of RAI, EMI was recently
> able to locate the original tapes, from which a new, digitally
> remastered version has been made, taking full advantage of the very
> latest techniques. Thus enhanced, this great Furtwangler performance
> is once again made available to record collectors worldwide.

Which makes you wonder then why there's 33rpm swish on the EMI CDs of
Siegfried - the same swish which appears on the 1972 LPs and the 2005
Gebhardt release - along with multiple remnants of vinyl declicking
throughout.

I've not heard the 1986 LPs - but there's no mention of master tapes
with the current CD issue, and if RAI had the tapes all along why did
they go to the trouble of pressing new vinyl from their metal masters in
1971 and then transferring this to tape for the LP issue of 1972?

There seems to be a degree of smoke and mirrors about the various
releases of these recordings, but maybe I'm being overly suspicious.
Whichever way you look at it, though, "original tapes" don't have
surface swish every 1.8s - there can only be one source for that bit of
that CD.

One question for you, as I've not heard these LPs: is there canned
applause tacked on at the end of each act, as per the CDs? Or do they
finish clean, as per the 1972 LPs? Just curious on this matter...

Oscar

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May 10, 2011, 5:55:03 AM5/10/11
to
On May 10, 2:14 am, Andrew Rose wrote:
>
> One question for you, as I've not heard these LPs: is there canned
> applause tacked on at the end of each act, as per the CDs? Or do they
> finish clean, as per the 1972 LPs? Just curious on this matter...

Interesting post, thanks for your comments. I have just auditioned
Side 5, the conclusion of Scene 4 of Das Rheingold and, yes, there is
canned applause.

Andrew Rose

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May 10, 2011, 6:59:44 AM5/10/11
to

I wonder who added this - it shows up on the Gebhardt CDs as well. The
applause at the end of Acts 2 and 3 of both Siegfried and
Götterdämmerung is identical (though they re-EQ'd the final applause in
Götterdämmerung so it sounds a little different), but none of it sounds
in the remotest sense realistic or authentic.

One other thing to listen out for which is odd. At the start of
Götterdämmerung - and for what is roughly equivalent to the first two LP
sides but only on the CD, you hear what sounds like treble phasing, a
kind of swishy repetitive drop-out. It's particularly noticeable in the
first few minutes in the strings, but does continue for some time.

Again, it's also present in the Gebhardt CDs, but there's no sign of it
at all on the 1972 LPs. It sounds like what I'd expect to hear from a
tape dub where a speck of dirt on the pinch roller causes the tape to
shift up and down slightly as it passes over the tape heads - if you use
a stereo tape head then mono the output in an instance like this you'll
get intermittent but regular phase cancellation.

Could it be possible that the 'original tapes' weren't quite as original
as thought - and suffered a 'dodgy dub' at some point in their lifetime?

One other thing to listen out for (if you feel in the mood!) - the
opening of the third act of Siegfried, on both EMI and Gebhardt CDs, and
also on the 1972 EMI LPs, is where regular surface noise from the RAI
vinyl pressings is most obvious for the first ~45s, before the crescendo
and trumpets drown it out. Wherever that came from it wasn't "original
tapes" - can you hear it on your LPs?

Edward Cowan

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May 11, 2011, 9:51:04 AM5/11/11
to
FWIW, I auditioned the beginning and end of the Angel-Seraphim
_Götterdämmerung_ yesterday evening, comparing same with the EMI CDs,
and I can report the following:

The Norn scene does have a little bit of distorion in the highs, such as
in the violins, but I am unable to detect any mechanical noises there.

The end of the opera (the orchestral peroration that ends the immolation
scene), and, no, there is no applause at the end of Side 10. The EMI CD
edition does have applause at that point. Luckily, one can stop the
player with a remote control before the applause begins.

Now here's a question: Before I got the Angel-Seraphim edition of the
Furtwängler _Ring_, I had the MRF edition of it.

Das Rheingold - MRF 14
Die Walküre - MRF 41
Siegfried - MRF 23
Götterdämmerung - MRF 34

The album numbers come from the WF discography by Hennig Smidth Olsen,
Copenhagen, 1970 (Nationaldiskoteket Nr. 211). I no longer have the MRF
LPs.

Question: Does anyone recall whether there was any applause attached to
the ends of acts in the MRF edition of the WF _Ring_? --E.A.C.


Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:


--
hrabanus

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