Gulda's Beethoven set on Orfeo
pianomaven
There is no question that there is much that is absolutely astounding
about these recordings.
First of all, that a young man in his twenties could just sit down in
the studios of Austrian Radio and play these sonatas this way is
fairly amazing. They are presumably NOT edited performances, just
straight run-throughs done for radio relay.
Secondly, that they are so flawless. The playing gives new definition
to the word accurate.
Thirdly, the sound is first-rate. I haven't done a side by side
comparison with the Decca set from the same period, but it is totally
adequate in my opinion for the music Gulda has chosen to play.
BUT, if you are a follower of Furtwangler, this is just not the set
for you. If you like your Beethoven in the Toscanini style, however,
this might be just what you were looking for. There isn't a single
sentimental note in the entire set. No, not one. There is lots of
feeling, lost of passion, storm and stress, as well as deep feeling.
But absolutely NO indulgences whatsoever. No yielding of the tempo at
climaxes, no relief at all. Not ever. Surely this is the most dry-eyed
Beethoven ever set down on record. A kind of apotheosis of "matter-of-
fact", if you like. The complete antithesis of Arrau. Also of
Schnabel. Frankly there is no other recording which even comes close
to this. Even Pollini seems self-indulgent when compared to the young
Gulda.
The added bonus of the Eroica, Diabelli, and Op. 126 is just icing on
the cake. Speaking of the Diabelli, I have never heard that theme
played quite as quickly as Gulda does. Of course I could say that
about almost everything in this set. The Hammerklavier first movement
is right up there with the fastest on record. Thing is, Gulda can
actually PLAY it at that tempo.
I would think this is a kind of must-have for real lovers of
Beethoven's piano music wherever you may be on the Furtwangler-
Toscanini axis.
TD
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
pianomaven
I don't have that Brilliant set, Bob. I have the earlier set on
Amadeo. Haven't listened in a long while, but I am sure it is cannot
be vastly different. Leopards don't change their spots.
TD
Matthew Silverstein
> How would you compare it with the Amadeo set now on Brilliant?
I've not heard the Amadeo set, but I'm quite fond of the earlier Decca
studio recordings (released on Eloquence in Europe, I believe). According
to Jed Distler at ClassicsToday, the Orfeo recordings are closer
stylistically to the Decca set than to the Amadeo, for what it's worth.
I've added this to my wishlist!
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
> I've not heard the Amadeo set, but I'm quite fond of the earlier Decca
> studio recordings (released on Eloquence in Europe, I believe). According
> to Jed Distler at ClassicsToday, the Orfeo recordings are closer
> stylistically to the Decca set than to the Amadeo, for what it's worth.
>
> I've added this to my wishlist!
Scratch that. It's the Amadeo set that was released on Eloquence in Europe
and that I'm quite fond of.
Matty
RiRiIII
wrote:
The Eloquence set has the Amadeo recordings together with the Decca
piano cti. The Decca box is now oop.
Oscar Williamson
weeks. (Alternating with Korstick's maddening hi-rez almost-complete
set for Oehms Classics.) I concur with your assessment: dry-eyed,
technically stunning, and vigorously-played. Two things: IMO, the new
Orfeo is closer to now OOP 'Original Masters' Decca box in style and
sound than it is to the Amadeo set (reissued on Brilliant, also OOP).
Also, while the sound on the Orfeo is good it is worth noting that the
original tapes were 30ips. ORF dubbed down to 15 'for posterity' and
scrapped the masters! What we have been left with, and what Executive
Producer Gottlieb Krauss and Restoration Engineer Harald Huber worked
from, are hissy second-generation 'masters'. No matter. As you
intimated -- and I will say outright, this is pure genius at work.
And to think Gulda was a mere punk of 24!
RiRiIII
wrote:
The Amadeo is still cheaply (24 euro) available as Eloquence:
mr rapidan
> The Decca box is now oop.
But it's readily available in both lossless and lossy.
Oscar Williamson
>
> > The Decca box is now oop.
>
> But it's readily available in both lossless and lossy.
Well, duh!
gperkins151
I haven't heard the Orfeo, but what Tom said about the Orfeo (minus
the non-sonata recordings) describes the Amadeo/Brilliant set
perfectly. I am very happy with the Brilliant set, so happy that I
haven't bothered with Gulda's other two sets.
George
mr rapidan
wrote:
Well, people are seeming to act as though they're not aware that
that's the case. Just want to make sure that anyone who's not able to
locate a set knows that they're attainable.
Andrej Kluge
Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> Scratch that. It's the Amadeo set that was released on Eloquence in
> Europe and that I'm quite fond of.
You mean to say the Orfeo set contain the same recordings (of the sonatas)
as the Amadeo (Eloquence) ones?
Ciao
AK
pianomaven
No.
There are THREE separate Beethoven cycles from Gulda: Orfeo(1953),
Decca (1950-1958), and Amadeo (1968-9).
TD
weary flake
> On 2 Oct, 22:42, Matthew Silverstein <msilverz-l...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:54:53 -0700, Bob Harper wrote:
> > > How would you compare it with the Amadeo set now on Brilliant?
> >
> > I've not heard the Amadeo set, but I'm quite fond of the earlier Decca
> > studio recordings (released on Eloquence in Europe, I believe). According
> > to Jed Distler at ClassicsToday, the Orfeo recordings are closer
> > stylistically to the Decca set than to the Amadeo, for what it's worth.
The Decca set can at times have dim sound quality.
> > I've added this to my wishlist!
> >
> > Matty
>
> The Eloquence set has the Amadeo recordings together with the Decca
> piano cti. The Decca box is now oop.
amazon canada still has some new stock of the Decca cycle, it looks;
it's where I got mine not too long ago:
http://www.amazon.ca/Gulda-Plays-Beethoven-Variations-Concerto/dp/B0009A41ZQ/
There's a two CD set that has some of these recordings that's
out and about:
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B000004237/
that has the weird moonlight first movement without dampers, he
barely holds it together.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
news:wearyflake-00E68...@news.giganews.com:
> There's a two CD set that has some of these recordings that's out and
> about:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B000004237/
>
> that has the weird moonlight first movement without dampers, he barely
> holds it together.
Didn't Roger Woodward notoriously record the "Moonlight" holding the sustain
pedal down throughout?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
RiRiIII
> RiRiIII <alex_ri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2 Oct, 22:42, Matthew Silverstein <msilverz-l...@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 11:54:53 -0700, Bob Harper wrote:
> > > > How would you compare it with the Amadeo set now on Brilliant?
>
> > > I've not heard the Amadeo set, but I'm quite fond of the earlier Decca
> > > studio recordings (released on Eloquence in Europe, I believe). According
> > > to Jed Distler at ClassicsToday, the Orfeo recordings are closer
> > > stylistically to the Decca set than to the Amadeo, for what it's worth.
>
> The Decca set can at times have dim sound quality.
>
> > > I've added this to my wishlist!
>
> > > Matty
>
> > The Eloquence set has the Amadeo recordings together with the Decca
> > piano cti. The Decca box is now oop.
>
> amazon canada still has some new stock of the Decca cycle, it looks;
> it's where I got mine not too long ago:
>
>
> There's a two CD set that has some of these recordings that's
> out and about:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B000004237/
>
> that has the weird moonlight first movement without dampers, he
> barely holds it together.
Thanks. Just ordered from Canada!
pianomaven
Vive le Canada!
TD
Lena
wrote:
Yeah, me too; for the early sonatas this may well be the complete set
I listen to most often. Unfortunately, the comment about the Orfeo
being closer to the Decca, stylistically, doesn't tell me much,
either...
Distler's review doesn't make many direct comparisons with the Amadeo
set -- his one general comment says that the Orfeo slow movements tend
to be slightly more flexible than the "militant" Amadeo ones. (I'm
not sure I know what that means. :) )
I'm vaguely curious about the Orfeo, but maybe I agree with Howie.
Or, OK, if there isn't "too much music," at least there's too much
audio. :)
Lena
PS. It's good to see you back... (I just noticed this thread,
sorry.)
Lena
> On Oct 2, 12:44 pm, Matthew Silverstein <msilverz-l...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 23:42:38 +0400, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> > > I've not heard the Amadeo set, but I'm quite fond of the earlier Decca
> > > studio recordings (released on Eloquence in Europe, I believe). According
> > > to Jed Distler at ClassicsToday, the Orfeo recordings are closer
> > > stylistically to the Decca set than to the Amadeo, for what it's worth.
>
> > > I've added this to my wishlist!
>
> > Scratch that. It's the Amadeo set that was released on Eloquence in Europe
> > and that I'm quite fond of.
>
> Yeah, me too; for the early sonatas this may well be the complete set
> I listen to most often. Unfortunately, the comment about the Orfeo
> being closer to the Decca, stylistically, doesn't tell me much,
> either...
>
> Distler's review doesn't make many direct comparisons with the Amadeo
> set -- his one general comment says that the Orfeo slow movements tend
> to be slightly more flexible than the "militant" Amadeo ones. (I'm
> not sure I know what that means. :) )
>
Distler does make a comment about the unedited environment eliciting
"more animation and nuance all around" but then goes on to compare the
Orfeo to the studio Decca (where I'd be more interested in a direct
comparison with the Amadeo, especially in the late sonatas, where I
feel the Amadeo versions have a few thngs missing).
Lena
Matthew Silverstein
> PS. It's good to see you back... (I just noticed this thread,
> sorry.)
Thanks!
Matty