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un-original music by David Rose
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William Sommerwerck
May 24, 2013, 6:17:09 PM5/24/13
to
I'm building up to a sort-of rhetorical question that I don't really expect an
answer to.
There's a "wheel-spinning" * episode of "Bonanza" titled "The Tall Stranger".
Hoss ** is in love with a young woman he's supposedly known all his life that
the viewers have never seen. (This is typical TV-series plotting.)
David Rose -- an arranger and composer *** of popular music -- is credited
with the music for most (if not all) "Bonanza" episodes. In this one, he
decided that Hoss and his belov�d need a love theme. But instead of writing
something original, he steals. And what do you think he appropriates?
The Big Tune from Brahms' First Symphony.
And when Hoss gets angry because his sweetie isn't returning his affections...
Rose quotes the opening of the first movement! He also works in passages from
other movements, including the preamble to The Big Tune.
This program was first broadcast //a half century// ago. What was Rose
thinking? Did he think no one would notice? Or was he laughing behind the
backs of people he assumed knew nothing about classical music?
Then again, he might have loved the music and thought it more-appropriate than
anything he could have written himself.
Either way, every time I listen to the Brahms First, I'll have to remember
this awful "Bonanza" episode.
PS: Need I tell you that, after the young woman marries the wrong man and is
deserted when she's pregnant, she conveniently dies in childbirth. Poor Dan
Blocker -- probably the best actor on the show -- is forced to make
exaggerated and unconvincing grimaces on hearing the news. At least we get to
see Hoss deliver the wayward husband a substantial zetz im kopf.
* A trivial, shallow story, because no one came up with anything better that
week.
** It's amazing how often the other characters sound as if they're calling him
"Horse".
*** He's best-remembered for "Holiday for Strings" and "The Stripper".
answer to.
There's a "wheel-spinning" * episode of "Bonanza" titled "The Tall Stranger".
Hoss ** is in love with a young woman he's supposedly known all his life that
the viewers have never seen. (This is typical TV-series plotting.)
David Rose -- an arranger and composer *** of popular music -- is credited
with the music for most (if not all) "Bonanza" episodes. In this one, he
decided that Hoss and his belov�d need a love theme. But instead of writing
something original, he steals. And what do you think he appropriates?
The Big Tune from Brahms' First Symphony.
And when Hoss gets angry because his sweetie isn't returning his affections...
Rose quotes the opening of the first movement! He also works in passages from
other movements, including the preamble to The Big Tune.
This program was first broadcast //a half century// ago. What was Rose
thinking? Did he think no one would notice? Or was he laughing behind the
backs of people he assumed knew nothing about classical music?
Then again, he might have loved the music and thought it more-appropriate than
anything he could have written himself.
Either way, every time I listen to the Brahms First, I'll have to remember
this awful "Bonanza" episode.
PS: Need I tell you that, after the young woman marries the wrong man and is
deserted when she's pregnant, she conveniently dies in childbirth. Poor Dan
Blocker -- probably the best actor on the show -- is forced to make
exaggerated and unconvincing grimaces on hearing the news. At least we get to
see Hoss deliver the wayward husband a substantial zetz im kopf.
* A trivial, shallow story, because no one came up with anything better that
week.
** It's amazing how often the other characters sound as if they're calling him
"Horse".
*** He's best-remembered for "Holiday for Strings" and "The Stripper".
O
May 24, 2013, 7:00:12 PM5/24/13
to
In article <knooli$ju4$1...@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
Because it's in the public domain and he can use it for free, he can't
get sued and now he can go to the strip club instead of spending the
weekend trying to think up a new melody for a trivial, shallow story.
-Owen
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm building up to a sort-of rhetorical question that I don't really expect
> an
> answer to.
>
> There's a "wheel-spinning" * episode of "Bonanza" titled "The Tall Stranger".
> Hoss ** is in love with a young woman he's supposedly known all his life
> that
> the viewers have never seen. (This is typical TV-series plotting.)
>
> David Rose -- an arranger and composer *** of popular music -- is credited
> with the music for most (if not all) "Bonanza" episodes. In this one, he
> decided that Hoss and his belovéd need a love theme. But instead of writing
> I'm building up to a sort-of rhetorical question that I don't really expect
> an
> answer to.
>
> There's a "wheel-spinning" * episode of "Bonanza" titled "The Tall Stranger".
> Hoss ** is in love with a young woman he's supposedly known all his life
> that
> the viewers have never seen. (This is typical TV-series plotting.)
>
> David Rose -- an arranger and composer *** of popular music -- is credited
> with the music for most (if not all) "Bonanza" episodes. In this one, he
get sued and now he can go to the strip club instead of spending the
weekend trying to think up a new melody for a trivial, shallow story.
-Owen
Mort
May 24, 2013, 8:25:30 PM5/24/13
to
William Sommerwerck wrote:
> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular musicn and
> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
songs,and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
For starters, try "Till The End of Time" sung by Perry Como, then segue
to "The Lone Ranger.
How about the other direction? Tchaikovsky wrote Capriccio Italienne,
whose main theme is an old Italian folksong. (Why does an Italian-themed
piece by a Russian composer bear a French-language title?)
Good listening.
Mort Linder
Herman
May 24, 2013, 9:57:17 PM5/24/13
to
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:17:09 AM UTC+2, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>But instead of writing
>
> something original, he steals. And what do you think he appropriates?
>
You mean like Stravinsky?
>But instead of writing
>
> something original, he steals. And what do you think he appropriates?
>
Gerard
May 25, 2013, 3:33:49 AM5/25/13
to
Mort <mo...@cloud9.net> typed:
>
> For starters, try "Till The End of Time" sung by Perry Como, then
> segue to "The Lone Ranger.
>
> How about the other direction? Tchaikovsky wrote Capriccio Italienne,
> whose main theme is an old Italian folksong.
There are many examples of this kind. A lot of 19th century (the second half of
that century) music has nationalistic and folklore roots.
> (Why does an
> Italian-themed piece by a Russian composer bear a French-language
> title?)
>
(The title is Capriccio italien.) Tchaikovsky was fond of using French, like
many Russians. There's also a Russian version of the title.
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
> > What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular musicn and
> songs,and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
Actually nothing new here.
> > What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular musicn and
> songs,and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
>
> For starters, try "Till The End of Time" sung by Perry Como, then
> segue to "The Lone Ranger.
>
> How about the other direction? Tchaikovsky wrote Capriccio Italienne,
> whose main theme is an old Italian folksong.
that century) music has nationalistic and folklore roots.
> (Why does an
> Italian-themed piece by a Russian composer bear a French-language
> title?)
>
many Russians. There's also a Russian version of the title.
William Sommerwerck
May 25, 2013, 9:37:27 AM5/25/13
to
>> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
> Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular music,
> songs, and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
What's new (to me) is that somebody would do it for a TV show. And he did it
without giving Brahms the credit.
A similar thing happened with a 1975 animated TV special of Mel Brooks' "The
2,000-Year-Old Man". Mort Garson receives credit for "original music", but all
he did was adopt Bach -- some of the Two-Part Inventions, if I recall
correctly.
He couldn't get away with that today. Even with PD material, you do not
appropriate someone else's work and claim it as your own. This, more than
anything, is my gripe with David Rose.
JohnGavin
May 25, 2013, 10:13:52 AM5/25/13
to
This is veering away a bit from the original topic, but I often wondered why only a handful of TV shows from the 50s and 60s have been shown in repeats on the major stations over the years.
Then, with the advent of YouTube, I was able to watch things like "Dr. Kildare, My Little Margie, The Loretta Young Show, and yes, Bonanza". The truth is, they haven't aged well. To modern eyes and ears they are too stagey, too static visually, too silly in a fluffy sort of way, or too preachy (in the case of Dr. Kildare).
Then, with the advent of YouTube, I was able to watch things like "Dr. Kildare, My Little Margie, The Loretta Young Show, and yes, Bonanza". The truth is, they haven't aged well. To modern eyes and ears they are too stagey, too static visually, too silly in a fluffy sort of way, or too preachy (in the case of Dr. Kildare).
William Sommerwerck
May 25, 2013, 10:58:02 AM5/25/13
to
"JohnGavin" wrote in message
news:4cb47865-ab83-42fe...@googlegroups.com...
> This is veering away a bit from the original topic, but I often wondered
> why only a handful of TV shows from the 50s and 60s have been shown
> in repeats on the major stations over the years.
> Then, with the advent of YouTube, I was able to watch things like Dr
> Kildare,
> My Little Margie, The Loretta Young Show, and yes, Bonanza. The truth is,
Worst of all, they generally aren't well-written. Not by current standards,
anyway. The quality of TV has risen as that of films has declined. Even shows
like "Xena, Warrior Princess" are real dramas (not melodramas) * with
plausible characters, motivations, and plotting. "House" is overly formulaic,
but it's a far cry from "Dr Kildare". And "The Sopranos" or "Breaking Bad"
would never have gotten on TV 40 years ago.
A local station carries MeTV, which is nothing but reruns. I rarely miss
"Perry Mason" or "Gunsmoke". Treat yourself to "Gunsmoke". It is one of the
best TV shows, ever. At its best (which is surprisingly often) it is superb.
There is no other word for it.
One of the very best episodes is "Saturday Night". It meanders quite a bit,
not revealing where it's headed until the last 90 seconds, which has to be one
of the most-shocking and nihilistic endings you will ever see, on TV or
elsewhere.
* My non-standard definition is that drama is character-driven, melodrama is
plot-driven. McKee says that all stories are character-driven, but they
aren't. (He must have meant "should be".)
news:4cb47865-ab83-42fe...@googlegroups.com...
> This is veering away a bit from the original topic, but I often wondered
> why only a handful of TV shows from the 50s and 60s have been shown
> in repeats on the major stations over the years.
> Then, with the advent of YouTube, I was able to watch things like Dr
> My Little Margie, The Loretta Young Show, and yes, Bonanza. The truth is,
> they
> haven't aged well. To modern eyes and ears they are too stagey, too static
> visually, too silly in a fluffy sort of way, or too preachy (in the case of
> Dr Kildare).
> haven't aged well. To modern eyes and ears they are too stagey, too static
> visually, too silly in a fluffy sort of way, or too preachy (in the case of
Worst of all, they generally aren't well-written. Not by current standards,
anyway. The quality of TV has risen as that of films has declined. Even shows
like "Xena, Warrior Princess" are real dramas (not melodramas) * with
plausible characters, motivations, and plotting. "House" is overly formulaic,
but it's a far cry from "Dr Kildare". And "The Sopranos" or "Breaking Bad"
would never have gotten on TV 40 years ago.
A local station carries MeTV, which is nothing but reruns. I rarely miss
"Perry Mason" or "Gunsmoke". Treat yourself to "Gunsmoke". It is one of the
best TV shows, ever. At its best (which is surprisingly often) it is superb.
There is no other word for it.
One of the very best episodes is "Saturday Night". It meanders quite a bit,
not revealing where it's headed until the last 90 seconds, which has to be one
of the most-shocking and nihilistic endings you will ever see, on TV or
elsewhere.
* My non-standard definition is that drama is character-driven, melodrama is
plot-driven. McKee says that all stories are character-driven, but they
aren't. (He must have meant "should be".)
Norman Schwartz
May 25, 2013, 11:19:07 AM5/25/13
to
language:
http://nadeaubarlow.com/en/french-as-an-international-language/
I envy native French speakers because I love the sound of the language.
Several years ago I visited France and as a people I found them extremely
friendly and hospitable. However as a country, how the France conducted
itself during war time plus the current rise of anti-semitism is another
matter. A while ago a lot of anti-French sentiment existed in the USA (even
with an attempt at substituting 'Freedom fries' in for 'French fries').
Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States
> Good listening.
>
> Mort Linder
Gerard
May 25, 2013, 11:23:36 AM5/25/13
to
Norman Schwartz <nm...@optonline.net> typed:
Well, there's a lot of anti-USA sentiment in many parts of the world.
How OT can we go?
How OT can we go?
Curlytop
May 25, 2013, 3:34:53 PM5/25/13
to
Mort set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum:
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular musicn and
> songs,and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
>
> For starters, try "Till The End of Time" sung by Perry Como, then segue
> to "The Lone Ranger.
"Till the end of time" is not the only Perry Como track with a classical
base. Try "Hot Diggity" based on a little number by Chabrier as reworked by
Waldteufel.
Annie Haslam, lead singer of the rock band Renaissance, has released an
album "Still Life" where every track takes a well-known classical piece as
its basis, from Albinoni's Adagio through Tchaikovsky's 5th to Faure's
Berceuse. I have this album in its later 2-disc incarnation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Still_Life_%28Annie_Haslam_album%29
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular musicn and
> songs,and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
>
> For starters, try "Till The End of Time" sung by Perry Como, then segue
> to "The Lone Ranger.
base. Try "Hot Diggity" based on a little number by Chabrier as reworked by
Waldteufel.
Annie Haslam, lead singer of the rock band Renaissance, has released an
album "Still Life" where every track takes a well-known classical piece as
its basis, from Albinoni's Adagio through Tchaikovsky's 5th to Faure's
Berceuse. I have this album in its later 2-disc incarnation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Still_Life_%28Annie_Haslam_album%29
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Mort
May 25, 2013, 4:55:32 PM5/25/13
to
Yes, of course capriccio is masculine, and I inadvertently inserted a
feminine ending. I'm afraid that my French is limited to grocery shops
and restaurants. Thanks for the correction. Incidentally, I just read
that Tchaikovsky had a German mother and one French grandfather.Despite
the difficult travel then his family members got around.
Mort Linder
Mort
May 25, 2013, 4:57:16 PM5/25/13
to
of "3o Seconds over Tokyo". Can you steal from yourself?
Mort Linder
William Sommerwerck
May 25, 2013, 7:02:31 PM5/25/13
to
>> [Rose] couldn't get away with that today. Even with PD material,
aren't supposed to reuse their own material. But this seems to be a rule
honored only in the breach.
>> you do not appropriate someone else's work and claim it as your
>> own. This, more than anything, is my gripe with David Rose.
> He also appropriated a song melody of his own for the sound
>> own. This, more than anything, is my gripe with David Rose.
> track of "3o Seconds over Tokyo". Can you steal from yourself?
Legally, no. The producer or studio usually retains copyright, and composers
aren't supposed to reuse their own material. But this seems to be a rule
honored only in the breach.
Gerard
May 26, 2013, 5:46:34 AM5/26/13
to
Mort <mo...@cloud9.net> typed:
""His family had a long line of military service. His father, Ilya Petrovich
Tchaikovsky, was an engineer who served as a lieutenant colonel in the
Department of Mines. He was mostly of Russian ethnicity, though his ancestors
were Ukrainian Cossacks[1] and manager of the Kamsko-Votkinsk Ironworks.""
In many cases it's very implicated. ;-)
Yesterday I was in a record store and found there a disc with works conducted by
Maazel.
The title of the disc is "Symphonic Battle Scenes".
The first item: Capriccio Italien by Tchaikovsky.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphonic-Battle-Scenes-Lorin-Maazel/dp/B000003G1X/
Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
> Gerard wrote:
> >
> > (The title is Capriccio italien.) Tchaikovsky was fond of using
> > French, like many Russians. There's also a Russian version of the
> > title.
> >
> Hi,
>
> Yes, of course capriccio is masculine, and I inadvertently inserted a
> feminine ending. I'm afraid that my French is limited to grocery shops
> and restaurants. Thanks for the correction. Incidentally, I just read
> that Tchaikovsky had a German mother and one French
> grandfather.Despite the difficult travel then his family members got
> around.
>
> Mort Linder
According to Wikipedia:
> >
> > (The title is Capriccio italien.) Tchaikovsky was fond of using
> > French, like many Russians. There's also a Russian version of the
> > title.
> >
> Hi,
>
> Yes, of course capriccio is masculine, and I inadvertently inserted a
> feminine ending. I'm afraid that my French is limited to grocery shops
> and restaurants. Thanks for the correction. Incidentally, I just read
> that Tchaikovsky had a German mother and one French
> grandfather.Despite the difficult travel then his family members got
> around.
>
> Mort Linder
""His family had a long line of military service. His father, Ilya Petrovich
Tchaikovsky, was an engineer who served as a lieutenant colonel in the
Department of Mines. He was mostly of Russian ethnicity, though his ancestors
were Ukrainian Cossacks[1] and manager of the Kamsko-Votkinsk Ironworks.""
In many cases it's very implicated. ;-)
Yesterday I was in a record store and found there a disc with works conducted by
Maazel.
The title of the disc is "Symphonic Battle Scenes".
The first item: Capriccio Italien by Tchaikovsky.
http://www.amazon.com/Symphonic-Battle-Scenes-Lorin-Maazel/dp/B000003G1X/
Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
Gerard
May 26, 2013, 5:48:02 AM5/26/13
to
Gerard <ghen_nosp...@hotmail.com> typed:
>
> In many cases it's very implicated. ;-)
'Complicated' that should be.
> In many cases it's very implicated. ;-)
Norman Schwartz
May 26, 2013, 11:44:21 AM5/26/13
to
many.
Gerard
May 26, 2013, 12:09:00 PM5/26/13
to
Norman Schwartz
May 26, 2013, 2:19:29 PM5/26/13
to
bugle-call heard daily from a barracks close to his hotel", (as do mine).
RVG
May 26, 2013, 2:39:48 PM5/26/13
to
Le 25/05/2013 02:25, Mort a �crit :
especially among high-class Russians. Pushkin may have given Russia the
epitome of its poetic dimension, but he wrote all his letters in French.
I think the trend started when empress Catherine II hosted Voltaire
after 17 years of correspondence with him in the 1760s.
--
"Shut your eyes and see."
James Joyce, Ulysses
http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/rvgronoff
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
> (Why does an Italian-themed piece by a Russian composer bear a
> French-language title?)
French was the /lingua franca/ of the 18th and 19th centuries,
> French-language title?)
especially among high-class Russians. Pushkin may have given Russia the
epitome of its poetic dimension, but he wrote all his letters in French.
I think the trend started when empress Catherine II hosted Voltaire
after 17 years of correspondence with him in the 1760s.
--
"Shut your eyes and see."
James Joyce, Ulysses
http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/rvgronoff
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Gerard
May 26, 2013, 3:27:43 PM5/26/13
to
Matthew B. Tepper
May 27, 2013, 2:56:17 AM5/27/13
to
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused
the following letters to be typed in news:knqej1$f9r$1...@dont-email.me:
Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music, which he did
little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
(At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
the following letters to be typed in news:knqej1$f9r$1...@dont-email.me:
little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
(At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Kip Williams
May 27, 2013, 7:36:14 AM5/27/13
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote, On 5/27/13 2:56 AM:
> Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music, which he did
> little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
> of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
> (At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
And Hamlisch accepted his Oscar with a thank-you to Joplin.
Kip W
> Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music, which he did
> little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
> of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
> (At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
Kip W
William Sommerwerck
May 27, 2013, 8:07:12 AM5/27/13
to
> Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music,
> which he did little more than arrange.
At least people knew it was Joplin.
> which he did little more than arrange.
> At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.
scores aren't very good.
Norman Schwartz
May 27, 2013, 11:41:41 AM5/27/13
to
allowing 'tunes' which could serve as a prelude to battle, or 'battle calls'
to suffice.
Steve de Mena
May 27, 2013, 10:51:16 PM5/27/13
to
On 5/26/13 11:56 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music, which he did
> little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
> of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
> (At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
>
To be fair, Hamlisch won an Oscar in 1974 in the category "Scoring:
> Well, Marvin Hamlisch won an Oscar for Scott Joplin's music, which he did
> little more than arrange. And Bill Conti got one for stretching out bits
> of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and mixing in some directly-quoted Holst.
> (At least Dimitri Tiomkin thanked Tchaikovsky, and others, back in 1955.)
>
Original Song Score and Adaptation -or- Scoring: Adaptation", and
adapt he did. "Adaptation Score by Marvin Hamlisch" is how his
nomination was credited.
The same year he ALSO won an Oscar for "Original Dramatic Score" for
"The Way We Were".
Steve
Oscar
May 27, 2013, 11:39:51 PM5/27/13
to
On May 27, 7:51 pm, Steve de Mena wrote:
>
> To be fair, Hamlisch won an Oscar in 1974 in the category "Scoring:
> Original Song Score and Adaptation -or- Scoring: Adaptation", and
> adapt he did. "Adaptation Score by Marvin Hamlisch" is how his
> nomination was credited.
>
> The same year he ALSO won an Oscar for "Original Dramatic Score" for
> "The Way We Were".
And, Hamlisch scored last night's Behind the Candelabra on HBO, the
>
> To be fair, Hamlisch won an Oscar in 1974 in the category "Scoring:
> Original Song Score and Adaptation -or- Scoring: Adaptation", and
> adapt he did. "Adaptation Score by Marvin Hamlisch" is how his
> nomination was credited.
>
> The same year he ALSO won an Oscar for "Original Dramatic Score" for
> "The Way We Were".
story of Liberace, his final project. Soundtrack available on Elektra
Records: http://tiny.cc/ksyrxw (MP3 only, not sure about CD)
Best line of the new Michael Douglas biopic about Władziu Valentino
Liberace from West Allis, Wis.
'Liberace is no Rubinstein, but then again Rubinstein is no Liberace.'
Matt Damon plays Lee's young Boy Friday, Scott Thorson. Director
Steven Soderbergh, who has said this will be his last movie, claimed
the movie was 'too gay' for theaters and was 'stunned' when no one in
Hollywood would take on the project: 'Nobody would make it. We went to
everybody in town.'
I thought the movie was just faaabulous!! Liberace was my first
concert, back a couple years before he died and I was still in single
digits. What a show! Fox Theater in St. Louis. Can you believe this
amazing theater almost was almost felled by the wrecking ball in the
early 80's?? http://tiny.cc/qwyrxw (I saw 'Lee' there before the
venue's substantial and expensive restoration.)
Here is a recent interview by Billboard.biz's Phil Gallo with Behind
the Candelabra music supervisor Evyen Klean http://tiny.cc/hpyrxw
<< While the film is by no means a showcase of Liberace’s recording
(only four of his works are in the film and on the soundtrack), you
still get a strong sense of who he was as a performer. How was that
scripted and how did you handle the balance of new recordings vs. the
old one?
Evyen Klean: There is no underscore in the move and (director Steven
Soderbergh) uses songs as a pacing device for sure. All of the songs
are from the Liberace repertoire. Steven knew Marvin from a film they
did, The Informant, and Marvin knew Lee (Liberace). Marvin and I
started to chart out the arc of what had to happen musically and the
bulk of the work needed to happen in production. Normally I break down
the script and start budgeting the costs for the source and what the
production would look like, then get to the music.
Since the story takes place after his recording career and there are
no absolute musts in terms of the repertoire, how did you select the
songs?
By the time I got the script much of that had been decided between
Richard (LaGravenese) writing it and Steven. Some adjustments were
made as the script went through polishes. An example would be "Kitten
on the Keys." Steven liked "Nola" better (as a performance piece) so
Stephen used (Liberace’s version of) "Kitten on the Keys" for a non-
performance piece. We went through versions of Liberace’s songs
because he recorded lots of versions of songs and picked through the
best performances. For Michael’s sake, we then would show footage of
Liberace playing those pieces for Michael to model to.
Michael Douglas gets credit on three songs on the album. Obviously it
is him singing "The Impossible Dream," but are we not listening to the
pianist Randy Kerber?
On "Why Do I Love You," he’s the vocalist just as Lee was. In "The
Liberace Boogie," his dialogue is essentially the lyrics of the song.
As we were putting together the soundtrack, the boogie has a lot of
piano vamping while he is explaining what he is doing, soliciting the
audience for a response. Working with Larry Blake, who is Steven’s
sound guru, we pulled the applause, we pulled the call-and-responses
and Michael’s voice, but it so lacked the overall feel in the movie.
Without Michael in there it felt like a lot was missing.
When "Love is Blue" plays toward the end of the film, it’s a reminder
that this music, despite it being associated with a much earlier time,
was somehow still in the air and not a forgotten remnant.
Think about all of the people traveling to Vegas all over the world to
watch Liberace? He was a pioneer. His versions are so amazing --
they’re dramatic, they’re buoyant. He had his own style and as I dug
in and listened, it was obvious he was an amazing musician. When you
start to watch him over and over in these performances, it was mind-
blowing. Yes, he’s extravagantly dressed and has a very Vegas-y show
but it was cool. He was an artist. >>
Matthew B. Tepper
May 28, 2013, 2:45:33 AM5/28/13
to
Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:Jo6dnSTz-r89hjnM...@giganews.com:
Good point. Just goes to show how important it is to have categories split
out that way.
letters to be typed in news:Jo6dnSTz-r89hjnM...@giganews.com:
out that way.
Matthew B. Tepper
May 28, 2013, 2:45:34 AM5/28/13
to
Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:287220fc-6820-43b9-b5a8-5186022d1ed0
@d8g2000pbe.googlegroups.com:
> On May 27, 7:51 pm, Steve de Mena wrote:
>>
>> To be fair, Hamlisch won an Oscar in 1974 in the category "Scoring:
>> Original Song Score and Adaptation -or- Scoring: Adaptation", and
>> adapt he did. "Adaptation Score by Marvin Hamlisch" is how his
>> nomination was credited.
>>
>> The same year he ALSO won an Oscar for "Original Dramatic Score" for
>> "The Way We Were".
>
> And, Hamlisch scored last night's Behind the Candelabra on HBO, the
> story of Liberace, his final project. Soundtrack available on Elektra
> Records: http://tiny.cc/ksyrxw (MP3 only, not sure about CD)
I'm sorry now that I missed it, but I've set my TiVo to catch it when it
repeats in a few days.
letters to be typed in news:287220fc-6820-43b9-b5a8-5186022d1ed0
@d8g2000pbe.googlegroups.com:
> On May 27, 7:51 pm, Steve de Mena wrote:
>>
>> To be fair, Hamlisch won an Oscar in 1974 in the category "Scoring:
>> Original Song Score and Adaptation -or- Scoring: Adaptation", and
>> adapt he did. "Adaptation Score by Marvin Hamlisch" is how his
>> nomination was credited.
>>
>> The same year he ALSO won an Oscar for "Original Dramatic Score" for
>> "The Way We Were".
>
> And, Hamlisch scored last night's Behind the Candelabra on HBO, the
> story of Liberace, his final project. Soundtrack available on Elektra
> Records: http://tiny.cc/ksyrxw (MP3 only, not sure about CD)
repeats in a few days.
Steve de Mena
May 28, 2013, 5:58:31 AM5/28/13
to
On 5/27/13 8:39 PM, Oscar wrote:
> Matt Damon plays Lee's young Boy Friday, Scott Thorson. Director
> Steven Soderbergh, who has said this will be his last movie, claimed
> the movie was 'too gay' for theaters and was 'stunned' when no one in
> Hollywood would take on the project: 'Nobody would make it. We went to
> everybody in town.'
>
> I thought the movie was just faaabulous!! Liberace was my first
> concert, back a couple years before he died and I was still in single
> digits.
Liberace was one of my first concerts too. Early 1970s at the Ahmanson
> Matt Damon plays Lee's young Boy Friday, Scott Thorson. Director
> Steven Soderbergh, who has said this will be his last movie, claimed
> the movie was 'too gay' for theaters and was 'stunned' when no one in
> Hollywood would take on the project: 'Nobody would make it. We went to
> everybody in town.'
>
> I thought the movie was just faaabulous!! Liberace was my first
> concert, back a couple years before he died and I was still in single
> digits.
Theatre with my Mom.
I watched the movie once last night, my Mom watched it twice.
My favorite line, that I just found interesting, was when Scott told
Lee how impressed he was with all the pianos, Lee said "I never play
them".
BTW I think Matt Damon is 42 or 43 and Scott was actually a teenager
when he met Liberace.
I thought Rob Lowe looked a little like Michael Jackson post-plastic
surgery.
Steve
Charles H. Sampson
May 28, 2013, 1:30:25 PM5/28/13
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> > Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular music,
> > songs, and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
>
> What's new (to me) is that somebody would do it for a TV show. And he did it
> without giving Brahms the credit.
>
> A similar thing happened with a 1975 animated TV special of Mel Brooks' "The
> 2,000-Year-Old Man". Mort Garson receives credit for "original music", but all
> he did was adopt Bach -- some of the Two-Part Inventions, if I recall
> correctly.
If I remember correctly (I haven't been to the movies in a while)
> >> What was Rose thinking? Did he think no one would notice?
>
> > Classical themes have been used for movie music, popular music,
> > songs, and ads for many decades; so what else is new?
>
> What's new (to me) is that somebody would do it for a TV show. And he did it
> without giving Brahms the credit.
>
> A similar thing happened with a 1975 animated TV special of Mel Brooks' "The
> 2,000-Year-Old Man". Mort Garson receives credit for "original music", but all
> he did was adopt Bach -- some of the Two-Part Inventions, if I recall
> correctly.
the credit would have been phrased as, "Original music by Mort Garson."
One understanding of that would be: Anything original you hear was
written by Mort Garson. Understanding it that way, the Bach would remain
Bach's and the arrangements would be Garson's, along with anything
wholely original, no matter how trivial.
Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)
Matthew B. Tepper
May 29, 2013, 2:17:39 AM5/29/13
to
csam...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson) appears to have caused the
> If I remember correctly (I haven't been to the movies in a while)
> the credit would have been phrased as, "Original music by Mort Garson."
> One understanding of that would be: Anything original you hear was
> written by Mort Garson. Understanding it that way, the Bach would remain
> Bach's and the arrangements would be Garson's, along with anything
> wholely original, no matter how trivial.
"By William Shakespeare, with additional dialogue by Sam Taylor."
following letters to be typed in
news:1l3ksy9.nlb9pq15glrufN%csam...@inetworld.net:
> If I remember correctly (I haven't been to the movies in a while)
> the credit would have been phrased as, "Original music by Mort Garson."
> One understanding of that would be: Anything original you hear was
> written by Mort Garson. Understanding it that way, the Bach would remain
> Bach's and the arrangements would be Garson's, along with anything
> wholely original, no matter how trivial.
Mort
May 29, 2013, 10:18:31 PM5/29/13
to
girl that wants to marry a guy,and her parents say no. Hardly military
in any way.
Mort Linder
Steve de Mena
May 30, 2013, 9:25:09 PM5/30/13
to
On 5/29/13 7:18 PM, Mort wrote:
>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>
>>> Well, doesn't it have a cavalry bugle call? Perhaps that's close
>>> enough for many.
>>
>> AFAIK it's a /carnaval/ bugle call.
>>
> The melody that it is derived from is an old Italian folksong,about a
> girl that wants to marry a guy,and her parents say no. Hardly military
> in any way.
>
> Mort Linder
According to Wikipedia "...Tchaikovsky even uses as the introduction a
>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>
>>> Well, doesn't it have a cavalry bugle call? Perhaps that's close
>>> enough for many.
>>
>> AFAIK it's a /carnaval/ bugle call.
>>
> The melody that it is derived from is an old Italian folksong,about a
> girl that wants to marry a guy,and her parents say no. Hardly military
> in any way.
>
> Mort Linder
bugle call that he overheard from his hotel played by Italian cavalry
regiment"
Steve
Gerard
May 31, 2013, 3:44:57 AM5/31/13
to
Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> typed:
Which has been mentioned in booklets and program notes etcetera. See older posts
in this thread.
So no battle involved.
in this thread.
So no battle involved.
Norman Schwartz
May 31, 2013, 11:07:34 AM5/31/13
to
Norman Schwartz
May 31, 2013, 11:59:39 AM5/31/13
to
Mort
Jun 6, 2013, 11:01:22 AM6/6/13
to
vocal, and the words bear out what I said above about a girl that wants
to marry a guy, and her father and mother say no. Who knows which
version of the music appeared first?
Mort Linder
Norman Schwartz
Jun 6, 2013, 11:52:40 AM6/6/13
to
Mort wrote:
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>> On 5/29/13 7:18 PM, Mort wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>>>
It's not a battle seen, neverthelss the CI has been included in some very
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>> On 5/29/13 7:18 PM, Mort wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>>>
well known PIT 'battle' recordings, e.g.:
http://tinyurl.com/mj6q5nr, http://tinyurl.com/n4x983h,
http://tinyurl.com/lxfuhkp.
So, when the CI appears included in a 'battle' recording, justly or not, it
comes as no great surprise, unless of course some one :-) chooses to make a
big to-do about it.
Norman Schwartz
Jun 6, 2013, 12:00:26 PM6/6/13
to
Norman Schwartz wrote:
> Mort wrote:
>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>> On 5/29/13 7:18 PM, Mort wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>>>>
>
> It's not a battle seen, neverthelss the CI has been included in some
> very well known PIT 'battle' recordings, e.g.:
> http://tinyurl.com/mj6q5nr, http://tinyurl.com/n4x983h,
> http://tinyurl.com/lxfuhkp.
>
(I don't know why the first tiny URL doesn't work properly but the Amazon's
> Mort wrote:
>> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>> On 5/29/13 7:18 PM, Mort wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Capriccio Italien a battle scene?
>>>>>>> I don't know why this work has been included on this disc.
>>>>>>
>
> It's not a battle seen, neverthelss the CI has been included in some
> very well known PIT 'battle' recordings, e.g.:
> http://tinyurl.com/mj6q5nr, http://tinyurl.com/n4x983h,
> http://tinyurl.com/lxfuhkp.
>
ASIN is B000003CSG.)
Matthew B. Tepper
Jun 8, 2013, 2:15:18 AM6/8/13
to
Mort <mo...@cloud9.net> appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:51b0a442$0$20196$607e...@cv.net:
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>
>> According to Wikipedia "...Tchaikovsky even uses as the introduction a
>> bugle call that he overheard from his hotel played by Italian cavalry
>> regiment"
>
Which lets me shoehorn this in: My intended and I have been planning our
upcoming wedding, and lately we've been talking about music, particularly
her processional. One traditional song for the bride at a Jewish wedding
is called "Dodi Li," and I found no fewer than a hundred versions of it on
iTunes alone. Yikes!
The other day, she told me that she had heard some music on KUSC, and from
the description I was easily able to deduce that it was from "Lt. Kijé."
Since (despite the wishes of some people here) I am real, and not an
imaginary officer created by a Cyrillic transcription error, it didn't seem
the way to go. So, back to the multitudinous versions of "Dodi Li."
For our recessional, I have suggested Leonard Pennario's "March of the
Lunatics," but I have yet to try to "sell" the idea to her. And some of my
friends may recognize it only from its appearances on early "Saturday Night
Live" shows, and start calling us Mr. and Mrs. "Leonard Pinth-Garnell."
No, the groom doesn't get a processional, otherwise there's the obvious
choice, from Berlioz, of course.
typed in news:51b0a442$0$20196$607e...@cv.net:
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>>
>> According to Wikipedia "...Tchaikovsky even uses as the introduction a
>> bugle call that he overheard from his hotel played by Italian cavalry
>> regiment"
>
> I have heard a recording of the folk song in question, with a male vocal,
> and the words bear out what I said above about a girl that wants to marry
> a guy, and her father and mother say no. Who knows which version of the
> music appeared first?
I wonder whether that music has been played at weddings where appropriate?
> and the words bear out what I said above about a girl that wants to marry
> a guy, and her father and mother say no. Who knows which version of the
> music appeared first?
Which lets me shoehorn this in: My intended and I have been planning our
upcoming wedding, and lately we've been talking about music, particularly
her processional. One traditional song for the bride at a Jewish wedding
is called "Dodi Li," and I found no fewer than a hundred versions of it on
iTunes alone. Yikes!
The other day, she told me that she had heard some music on KUSC, and from
the description I was easily able to deduce that it was from "Lt. Kijé."
Since (despite the wishes of some people here) I am real, and not an
imaginary officer created by a Cyrillic transcription error, it didn't seem
the way to go. So, back to the multitudinous versions of "Dodi Li."
For our recessional, I have suggested Leonard Pennario's "March of the
Lunatics," but I have yet to try to "sell" the idea to her. And some of my
friends may recognize it only from its appearances on early "Saturday Night
Live" shows, and start calling us Mr. and Mrs. "Leonard Pinth-Garnell."
No, the groom doesn't get a processional, otherwise there's the obvious
choice, from Berlioz, of course.
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