Widor organ symphonies
Martin Kane
: Hi! I recently heard part of Widor's 5th organ symphony live, and
: really enjoyed it. Now, of course, I really want to find recordings of
: his organ symphonies. Anyone have recommendations? I really enjoy
: well-recorded organ, so good sound quality is definitely a factor,
: although if there is a performance that just blows everything else
: away ...
Being French, usually the french performers will play on accurate
instruments and at accurate tempi. Apart from people such as
Marie-Claire Alain, David Sanger, Peter Hurford I don't know of any
complete sets. Still, it is really just a case of what you want to
hear. If you want a FAST (incorrect) recording of the Widor Toccata
(from Symphony No. 5) try Carlo Curley.
Regards,
--
Martin & Anne Kane - orga...@southern.co.nz
- Certainly interested in hearing from all pipe organists.
Through Southern Internet Services - New Zealand
Simon Stroughair
>For the 5th, I think the best recording is by Daniel Roth, at St. Sulpice,
>Paris (this is where Widor himself played, and the organ is the one he
>knew). Can't remember the label name.
Couldn't agree more, but the only thing is that the action noise is
rather loud on this CD -- not distractingly so, but you might like to
know this before buying. I think the label is MOTETTE but I cannot be
sure.
Incidentally, I'm sure I read something recently about EMI releasing a
CD of Widor's own performance of the 5th, recorded in St. Sulpice.
I am certainly looking forward to hearing that!!
Cheers,,
Simon Stroughair (sis...@maths.tcd.ie)
Ohn Christian
: rid...@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway) writes:
: >For the 5th, I think the best recording is by Daniel Roth, at St. Sulpice,
: >Paris (this is where Widor himself played, and the organ is the one he
: >knew). Can't remember the label name.
: Couldn't agree more, but the only thing is that the action noise is
: rather loud on this CD -- not distractingly so, but you might like to
: know this before buying. I think the label is MOTETTE but I cannot be
: sure.
Yes, the name of the label is Motette. They're recorded Widor's 10
symphonies on various French organs and with various French organists. Out
of this set, only 2 CD's are really nice: Daniel Roth playing #5 and #10 at
St-Sulpice (Paris) and the same playing #3 and #7 at St-Sernin (Toulouse).
There is, however, another complete recording underway: Ben van Oosten has
already recorded #1, #2 somewhere in Spain (sorry, I forgot where), #3, #4
at St-Francois de Sales (Lyon, France) and #7, #9 at St-Ouen (Rouen,
France). To me, these recordings are an absolute reference: the
Cavaille-Coll organs are beautiful and well tuned, the sound is great, and
van Oosten's playing style goes straight to your heart (very romantic,
nowhere dry, but without any useless excesses). I'm eagerly waiting for #5,
#6, #8 and #10 being released. And yes: the label is MD+G. (By the way, van
Oosten has also recordrd Vierne's 6 symphonies and Guilmant's 8 sonatas for
the same label. Just as perfect.)
Next, a warning: another complete cycle has just been finished by Guenther
Kaunzinger (on the Novalis label). Stay away from it, he kills all the
beauty in Widor's music and only puts forward his own dry and agressive
playing technique (no wonder: he's been Guillou's pupil...).
: Incidentally, I'm sure I read something recently about EMI releasing a
: CD of Widor's own performance of the 5th, recorded in St. Sulpice.
: I am certainly looking forward to hearing that!!
Yes, EMI have released a CD in their series `Composers in person', with
Widor, Vierne, Dupre and Messiaen playing their own works. You have to
realize that Widor was 88 years old when we recorded the Toccata from #5 and
parts of #9, in 1932. So recording and playing technique are far from
perfect, but it is a valuable historical document. Note that this features
to my knowledge the slowest tempo ever used for the Toccata.
Cheers,
Christian
Ohn Christian
: Being French, usually the french performers will play on accurate
Yes, and no: I like Louis Robillard and Daniel Roth quite a lot. Odile
Pierre can sometimes be very nice (and sometimes not). Some younger French
organists, like Olivier Latry and Yves Castagnet, are very talented indeed,
both musically and technically. But there are others, sometimes more famous,
I don't like at all: Jean Guillou (my `bete noire'), Marie-Claire Alain for
instance.
: Apart from people such as
: Marie-Claire Alain, David Sanger, Peter Hurford I don't know of any
: complete sets.
Are you sure M-C. Alain did a complete set ? For which label ? I've only
listened to the Toccata from #5, to #6 and to #9. Her #9 (the `Gothique') is
particularly awful: much too fast. It gives the impression she wanted to put
the whole symphony on only one face of an LP.
The only complete set by a French organist I know of is the one by
Pierre Labric. It probably doesn't exist on CD (and putting it on CD is
certainly not worthwile).
: Still, it is really just a case of what you want to
: hear. If you want a FAST (incorrect) recording of the Widor Toccata
: (from Symphony No. 5) try Carlo Curley.
You must be right: I can hardly imagine Curley playing anything correctly.
But how fast is it? Robillard takes 4'37" and Kaunzinger squeezes it into
4'22"! (And I consider the former to be quite correct.)
Christian
Simon Stroughair
[Text deleted]
>Next, a warning: another complete cycle has just been finished by Guenther
>Kaunzinger (on the Novalis label). Stay away from it, he kills all the
>beauty in Widor's music and only puts forward his own dry and agressive
>playing technique (no wonder: he's been Guillou's pupil...).
Dead right -- I heard this recording once on the radio and I couldn't
believe how fast Mr. Kaunzinger played this music, completely diregarding
all of Widor's tempi and a lot of his registration suggestions. I couldn't
believe, therefore that in a Penguin guide a couple of years ago, they
said that this recording was the clear first choice for this piece. I
have never really trusted their judgment of organ music since!
>: Incidentally, I'm sure I read something recently about EMI releasing a
>: CD of Widor's own performance of the 5th, recorded in St. Sulpice.
>: I am certainly looking forward to hearing that!!
>Yes, EMI have released a CD in their series `Composers in person', with
>Widor, Vierne, Dupre and Messiaen playing their own works. You have to
>realize that Widor was 88 years old when we recorded the Toccata from #5 and
>parts of #9, in 1932. So recording and playing technique are far from
>perfect, but it is a valuable historical document. Note that this features
>to my knowledge the slowest tempo ever used for the Toccata.
This is probably the more correct speed of 100 crotchets/minute that Widor
himself specifies? I have never heard a recording where the organist did
not succumb to the temptation of playing it faster.
Cheers,
Simon
Ohn Christian
: ch...@vub.ac.be (Ohn Christian) writes:
: >Yes, EMI have released a CD in their series `Composers in person', with
: >Widor, Vierne, Dupre and Messiaen playing their own works. You have to
: >realize that Widor was 88 years old when we recorded the Toccata from #5 and
: >parts of #9, in 1932. So recording and playing technique are far from
: >perfect, but it is a valuable historical document. Note that this features
: >to my knowledge the slowest tempo ever used for the Toccata.
: This is probably the more correct speed of 100 crotchets/minute that Widor
: himself specifies? I have never heard a recording where the organist did
: not succumb to the temptation of playing it faster.
Actually, the speed is even slower than 100 crotchets/minute: the timing is
6'45", if I remember correctly.
Christian
Martin Kane
: You must be right: I can hardly imagine Curley playing anything correctly.
: But how fast is it? Robillard takes 4'37" and Kaunzinger squeezes it into
: 4'22"! (And I consider the former to be quite correct.)
I have no reference to the recording by C-C, however, in hearing it - I
knew it to be the fastest I have ever heard it played. I believe 7
minutes is written on the top of my score (by my past teacher) - who was
a student of M-C who was a student of X who was a student of WIDOR!
Direct heritage! :-)
andrew levine
Just thought I have to throw in the name of Joseph Rheinberger. There is a
recording of his Organpieces (three CDs) by cpo with Wolfgang Stockmeier.
It was a great find - at least for me.
Andrew.
--
*** andrew levine * lev...@mail.b-2.de.contrib.net * smile ;-) ***
Mario Taboada
>Andrew.
His chamber music is very dear to me. Fortunately, there are
excellent recordings (on Thorofon) of the complete chamber pieces. If
you don't feel like investing on a 6CD set, try the piano trios, which
are really excellent. For the trios, there is a very good recording on
MD&G (by Trio Parnassus, 2CDs). The Thorofon disks are also sold
separately.
If you like Brahms' and Dvorak's chamber music, you will probably like
Rheinberger's. Even though it's "Romantic", it's of very high quality
(how's that for flame-bait --it's a joke, it's a joke!)
Regards,
--
Mario Taboada
* Department of Mathematics * University of Southern California * Los Angeles
e-mail: tab...@mtha.usc.edu
Mario Taboada
excellent recordings (on Thorofon) of the complete chamber pieces. If
you don't feel like investing on a 6CD set, try the piano trios, which
are really excellent. For the trios, there is a very good recording on
MD&G (by Trio Parnassus, 2CDs). The Thorofon disks are also sold
separately.
If you like Brahms' and Dvorak's chamber music, you will probably like
Rheinberger's. Even though Rheinberger is known mainly for his organ works,
his chamber music is just as good or better. An unjustly neglected master,
at least in my opinion, which may not be worth much...
Ohn Christian
: Just thought I have to throw in the name of Joseph Rheinberger. There is a
: recording of his Organpieces (three CDs) by cpo with Wolfgang Stockmeier.
: It was a great find - at least for me.
There is a recording of all of his organ sonatas. Sorry, I can't remember by
whom or on which label. (I don't like his music, so I didn't care.)
Christian
Eric Schissel
as just mentioned, but also the sextet (alias the 4th piano trio in
F/a/F/f (by movt.) transcribed) on a Bayer CD (i think) and the violin
sonatas on a Christophorus CD (which I have and adore). I have only heard
his 1st & 3rd piano trios, and the violin sonatas and suite; though i have
skimmed the piano quartet (once ultra-popular), piano quintet, string quintet,
1st string quartet and 2nd & 4th piano trios. They have some features in
common which i tried to elucidate in an old post on sonata forms. i don't
still have it but could try to copy it from memory if anyone wants.
This chamber music is near the top of 19th-century writing in sheer
effectiveness and memorability.
(I find myself humming the exposition to the first movt. of the 3rd trio
repeatedly; should i see a doctor about this?)
-eric schissel
--
1.The most common mistake of young thieves is stealing complimentary copies.
2.Read misc.activism.progressive. (Std disc).
es...@crux2.cit.cornell.edu Eric Schissel, at least once in a while.
Eric Schissel
and a 3-disk sampler elsewhere. i prefer his chamber music (such as
violin sonatas) to his organ sonatas, but this isn't a majority view,
and i .do. like his organ sonatas, especially 4&8.