Composer Górecki dies aged 76
woytek
Oscar Williamson
Poldie
wrote:
> Beatus vir. Rest in peace.
If only there were some suitably sad music with which we could
commemorate his passing...
mark
> http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul143328_composer-gorecki-dies-ag...
> RIP
Now there's a one-trick pony who everyone had pretty much forgotten
about in less than a decade.
Oscar Williamson
>
> >http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul143328_composer-gorecki-dies-ag...
> > RIP
>
> Now there's a one-trick pony who everyone had pretty much forgotten
> about in less than a decade.
Yes, he was worthless, Mark. Lovely thoughts. San Fernando Valley
still oozing class, I see.
Dumbarton Oaks
Very sad news :(
Q.E.P.D
mark
wrote:
I wouldn't know. I don't live in the SF Valley.
Oscar Williamson
>
> > > Now there's a one-trick pony who everyone had pretty much forgotten
> > > about in less than a decade.
>
> > Yes, he was worthless, Mark. Lovely thoughts. San Fernando Valley
> > still oozing class, I see.
>
> I wouldn't know. I don't live in the SF Valley.
A shitty thing to say about a recently-deceased person, in this case a
man revered in his native country, and composer of the best-selling
non-crossover classical record of the last 30 years. There's no
escaping it.
Ördög
I am sure that there is at least *one* suitably sad symphony....
(what does "beatus vir" mean? My Latin is terrible.)
Oscar Williamson
>
> > If only there were some suitably sad music with which we could
> > commemorate his passing...
>
> I am sure that there is at least *one* suitably sad symphony....
>
> (what does "beatus vir" mean? My Latin is terrible.)
Blessed man. One of Gorecki's finest compositions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatus_Vir_%28G%C3%B3recki%29
Ördög
wrote:
Oscar, thank you. I think I (almost) guessed what "beatus" meant, but
I wasn't quite sure about the "vir" bit. I suppose "virile" is derived
from it but I wasn't completely certain.
Sol L. Siegel
bd6f11...@g2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
I demur. My intro to him was not "that" best-selling CD, but a live
performance (scheduled at literally the last minute) of his Lerchenmusik
for clarinet, cello and piano, a 40-minute, three-movement work I found at
once monomonical and riveting. (The cellist did miss a transition.) This
is what I played today upon hearing the news.
BTW, as for "that" symphony: I prefer the Naxos CD, with Wit leading the
orchestra of the composer's home base, Katowice.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Bob Harper
I think you're letting your (non)belief system get in the way of your
judgment.
Bob Harper
Allen
and Baltimore SO. IMO Gorecki wrote several intereting works--a composer
condemned just because he composed a work that drew a huge audience--a
fate worse that death in the eyes of musical snobs.
And re Antoni Wit--IMO he can do no wrong with anything 20th C (or
later) Polish music. I would like to hear him conducting something else,
also.
Allen
Alan Cooper
news:L4SdnWrZcYc-p0PR...@giganews.com:
> I have two favorites--the Wit and the Dawn Upshaw, someone with
> a baton, and Baltimore SO. IMO Gorecki wrote several intereting
> works--a composer condemned just because he composed a work that
> drew a huge audience--a fate worse that death in the eyes of
> musical snobs. And re Antoni Wit--IMO he can do no wrong with
> anything 20th C (or later) Polish music. I would like to hear
> him conducting something else, also.
> Allen
The Gorecki work is like nails on a chalkboard to me. As for Wit, aside from the
great Polish stuff, he's done a lot of accompanying, not always for first-rate
soloists, unfortunately, and in some repertoire that isn't to my taste (e.g.,
Tchaikovsky concerti with the excellent Glemser; the problem is the music). The
Shostakovich Cello Concerti with Kliegel and the Dvorak Piano Concerto with Jando are
definitely worthwhile. There also are Mahler and Schumann symphony cycles that I
have not paid much attention to--perhaps others can comment. An absolute must is his
Messaien Turangalila, which is superb in every respect.
AC
Simon Smith
Only someone who hasn't bothered to listen to any of his other pieces,
who knows nothing about Gorecki's life and nothing about the reception
of the 3rd Symphony, could come out with a comment like that.
Try the Lerchenmusik, or the Second Symphony. Then if you're feeling
brave any of the early pieces. Scontri is a good place to start, or
Muzyzcka IV, or indeed the 1st Symphony. There's way more than one trick
there.
Simon
Ördög
> The Gorecki work is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
I agree with you. It is painful listening in more ways than one.
>As for Wit, aside from the
> great Polish stuff, he's done a lot of accompanying, not always for first-rate
> soloists, unfortunately, and in some repertoire that isn't to my taste (e.g.,
> Tchaikovsky concerti with the excellent Glemser; the problem is the music). The
> Shostakovich Cello Concerti with Kliegel and the Dvorak Piano Concerto with Jando are
> definitely worthwhile. AC
[slight snip]
Generally speaking, I have great admiration for Antoni Wit, and I also
agree with your opinion of the Dvorak piano concerto - wonderful music
and beautifully performed. If you are familiar with Wit's Tchaikovsky
symphonies - would I be wasting my money if I invested in them? (I am
NOT a rich man!)
Gerard
>
> If you are familiar with Wit's Tchaikovsky
> symphonies - would I be wasting my money if I invested in them?
A very curious question.
Would you *not* be wasting money if you invested in them if he is *not* familiar
with Wit's Tchaikovsky symphonies?
BTW did he record symphonies #2 and #4? I thought that those were conducted by
Leaper (in the Naxos box).
Ördög
Sorry, Gerard. I made a mess of my query, but I am very tired right
now so I hope you will bear with me. What I want to know is: Are Wit's
Tchaikovsky symphonies worth buying? As far as I am aware, he recorded
all of them (not sure about 'Manfred') for Naxos. But I might be
wrong, and perhaps he only recorded the 2nd + 4th. I don't have a
recent Naxos catalogue and I haven't seen any reviews. Any
recommendations or warnings will be most welcome.
Gerard
I meant it the other way around: Wit recorded the symphonies 1, 3, 5 and 6 (and
/not/ 2 and 4).
An example:
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1456511/a/Tchaikovsky%3A+Symphonies+no+1-6,+etc+%2F+Leaper,+Wit,+et+al.htm
No Manfred in that box.
I've never heard any of it.
But I also don't remember any favorable comment on them.
If you like to invest in a box that's a personal favorite of mine (and not of
the most participants here):
DG has issued a box with all symphonies, Manfred, and a lot of orchestral works
with Pletnev.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/DG/4778699
A set without sentimentality, beautifully played.
Ördög
> rd g wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 4:47 pm, "Gerard" <ghendrik_nospam_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > rd g wrote:
>
> > > > If you are familiar with Wit's Tchaikovsky
> > > > symphonies - would I be wasting my money if I invested in them?
>
> > > A very curious question.
> > > Would you *not* be wasting money if you invested in them if he is
> > > *not* familiar with Wit's Tchaikovsky symphonies?
> > > BTW did he record symphonies #2 and #4? I thought that those were
> > > conducted by Leaper (in the Naxos box).
>
> > Sorry, Gerard. I made a mess of my query, but I am very tired right
> > now so I hope you will bear with me. What I want to know is: Are Wit's
> > Tchaikovsky symphonies worth buying? As far as I am aware, he recorded
> > all of them (not sure about 'Manfred') for Naxos. But I might be
> > wrong, and perhaps he only recorded the 2nd + 4th. I don't have a
> > recent Naxos catalogue and I haven't seen any reviews. Any
> > recommendations or warnings will be most welcome.
>
> I meant it the other way around: Wit recorded the symphonies 1, 3, 5 and 6 (and
> /not/ 2 and 4).
>
> No Manfred in that box.
>
> I've never heard any of it.
> But I also don't remember any favorable comment on them.
>
> If you like to invest in a box that's a personal favorite of mine (and not of
> the most participants here):
> DG has issued a box with all symphonies, Manfred, and a lot of orchestral works
> with Pletnev.
>
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/DG/4778699
>
> A set without sentimentality, beautifully played.
Gerard, thanks. I am not a Pletnev fan either, so I'll have to pass on
that recommendation. And, thanks again - the lack of reviews and/or
recommendations almost speaks for itself. So, for the time being, I'll
pass on Wit too - and thank you for taking the time to respond: You
were very helpful.
mark
Oh, I've listened to plenty of Gorecki in my time. It doesn't appeal
to me at all. Why assume that I don't think much of his music based on
the one piece of his that ever became popular with the public? Why
assume that I haven't heard the very pieces you mention? You're like
the religious types who believe atheists would believe in god if only
they knew the scriptures, when, in fact, most atheists don't believe
in god while they are thoroughly versed in the scriptures.
As far as his being a one-trick pony, I meant that in the same sense
that NRK is a one-trick pony with Scheherazade. Yes, Gorecki wrote
plenty of other music, but to the general public, he's known for one
work.
Bob Harper
(snip) You're like
> the religious types who believe atheists would believe in god if only
> they knew the scriptures, when, in fact, most atheists don't believe
> in god while they are thoroughly versed in the scriptures.
>
It is possible to be well-versed and uncomprehending at the same time.
Bob Harper
graham
"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hQCDo.163728$zE6....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
Graham
mark
More often than not, it's the norm to be horribly unversed while
claiming absolute certainty.
I speak of the religious, of course! :)
Ray Hall
His Richard Strauss Alpine is one of the very best. Played by the Weimar
Staatskapelle, Wit is a tad broad at the start, but this recording grows
on one.
Ray Hall, Taree
Bob Harper
Of course you do. That you might be wrong never seems to occur to you.
Bob Harper
mark
Oh, it occurs to me that I might be wrong. I just put the chances of
being wrong about religion on a par with be wrong about the existence
of fairies and werewolves.
To be honest, Bob, I think that's what bothers you the most about me
and the others around here who disparage religion, ie: that we don't
deem spending time proving/contemplating the "truth" of religion to be
of any value any more than we spend our valuable time proving that
werewolves really exist.
You just don't like having religion relegated to the level of "no more
important than Santa Claus" when one is discussing what is and what
isn't true/important.
David Wake
So by your definition Stockhausen or Boulez or 99% of 20th century
composers are zero-trick ponies. At least Gorecki had one trick.
David
Oscar Williamson
>
> Oh, it occurs to me that I might be wrong. I just put the chances of
> being wrong about religion on a par with be wrong about the existence
> of fairies and werewolves.
>
> To be honest, Bob, I think that's what bothers you the most about me
> and the others around here who disparage religion, ie: that we don't
> deem spending time proving/contemplating the "truth" of religion to be
> of any value any more than we spend our valuable time proving that
> werewolves really exist.
>
> You just don't like having religion relegated to the level of "no more
> important than Santa Claus" when one is discussing what is and what
> isn't true/important.
Does it occur to you that you have no tact with respect to cutting in
on a RIP thread with your boorish post?
mark
wrote:
In this newsgroup? Seriously? You're complaining about lack of tact?
Bob Harper
(snip)
>
> To be honest, Bob, I think that's what bothers you the most about me
> and the others around here who disparage religion, ie: that we don't
> deem spending time proving/contemplating the "truth" of religion to be
> of any value any more than we spend our valuable time proving that
> werewolves really exist.
>
> You just don't like having religion relegated to the level of "no more
> important than Santa Claus" when one is discussing what is and what
> isn't true/important.
I have hesitated about this, but my only response is to tell you to read
Psalm 14:1. I regret that, as you are clearly a person of high
intelligence. The pity is that your vision is so limited.
Bob Harper
mark
Oh, c'mon, Bob. Surely you can do better than that! I don't even have
to look it up to know that's the old "fool has said in his heart'
crapola canard. That verse qualifies as one of the most self-serving
verses in the entire Bible. It's like saying, "intelligent people know
I'm smarter than them."
BTW - have you ever looked at the back end of that verse, where it
says, "They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is
none that does good." You do realize, don't you, that the existence of
a single atheist doing a single good work falsifies this silly
statement? Well, it does, at least if the argument is made on moral
grounds.
Sad to say that most people reject Psalm 14 being a statement of
morality based on their belief that atheists are inherently immoral.
That's another silly belief, of course, a belief that would have one
believe that the good Catholic Adolf Hitler was moral while the
atheist Albert Einstein was immoral.
For some reason you believe that I'm not aware of this verse. If
you're going to go around quote Biblical "truisms" from the OT, then
where's the verses from Leviticus that rail against eating shellfish
and wearing clothing made out of two different fibers? Where are the
OT instructions on the Yahweh-approved (and dictated) process of
selling your daughter into slavery? Aren't all those verses just as
"true" as Psalm 14:1?
Also, you do know that Psalm 14 is ascribed to King David, do you not?
You know, the old adulterer who f*cked Bathsheba, then had her legal
husband sent off to battle to die so he could steal her for his wife?
Are you really putting the writings of this jerk up as some moral
statement on the human condition? No thanks.
Further BTW - while we're on the subject of "fools," you are aware -
are you not - that by calling me a fool you are risking hellfire for
yourself? It's true, at least according to gentle Jesus, meek and
mild, who says so in Matthew 5:22. You may want to check out that
particular verse for yourself and your mortal soul.
Really, Bob. This is the stuff upon which simpletons hang their hats.
Gerard
Why should we get used to yours?
Bob Harper
(snip a lot of stuff)
The defensive tone you adopt is rather telling, I think. As usual, your
overly literal construction of whatever is said misses the point, or at
least misses the complexity of the text.
Bob Harper
mark
Hmm?
Yet, YOUR overly literal reading of Psalm 14:1 is quite
alright...because why??
Oscar Williamson
> >
> > (snip a lot of stuff)
>
> > The defensive tone you adopt is rather telling, I think. As usual, your
> > overly literal construction of whatever is said misses the point, or at
> > least misses the complexity of the text.
>
> > Bob Harper
>
> Hmm?
>
> Yet, YOUR overly literal reading of Psalm 14:1 is quite
> alright...because why??
Mark, you hop into an RIP thread ready to trounce on the dead -- a man
who constructed benefits on the world via his compositions -- with
quick and gutless remarks, yet someone slings a lame joke about
Hillary Clinton and you tell him to ever-so-earnestly fuck off.
http://tiny.cc/t2xra [post #3] What's wrong with this picture?
number_six
> http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul143328_composer-gorecki-dies-ag...
> RIP
I played his Three Pieces in Olden Style and Sym 3 today -- the
Kamirski - Woytowica recording on Koch-Schwann.
Gorecki didn't get any traction in the recent "greatest living
composers" thread -- I gave the nod to Penderecki -- but these, and
the Beatus Vir others have mentioned, are fine works that I believe
will still hold an audience a generation hence.
number_six
Stefania Woytowicz was the soprano -- my fingers found the wrong key
above. Suppose that happens on the piano sometimes, as well.
Oscar Williamson
> Kamirski - Woytowica recording on Koch-Schwann.
>
> Gorecki didn't get any traction in the recent "greatest living
> composers" thread -- I gave the nod to Penderecki -- but these, and
> the Beatus Vir others have mentioned, are fine works that I believe
> will still hold an audience a generation hence.
Gorecki made the top ten in Lebrecht's informal poll earlier this year.
Allen
Spell check is my friend. But with Polish names SC is of absolutely no
use. About the only Polish composer that clears SC is Baird--but only if
the first name isn't used.
Allen
number_six
wrote:
Thanks, I hadn't seen that poll before. Found it in his archives.
For others who might be interested, here's a link:
http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2009/11/last_composer_standing_-_the_r.html
number_six
Or we could nickname him "Ted" Baird! The only thing I have by him is
Four Essays, which was offered for download awhile back on RMCR.