Bohm Ring Remastered

[Willem Orange]

I was not aware that the Decca Eloquence release of the mid-60s Bohm Ring has been remastered. Reviews indicate that the sound is an improvement over previous issues - no amount of sound improvement will correct, for me, the sets biggest flaw (Bohm's hit and run conducting) but others do not agree and could find the new set (at about 39 Euro) worth investigating.

[Randy Lane]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 2:10:41 PM UTC-7, Willem Orange wrote:
> I was not aware that the Decca Eloquence release of the mid-60s Bohm Ring has been remastered. Reviews indicate that the sound is an improvement over previous issues - no amount of sound improvement will correct, for me, the sets biggest flaw (Bohm's hit and run conducting) but others do not agree and could find the new set (at about 39 Euro) worth investigating.

Are you referencing this reissue:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00AX20AHI

If yes, be careful. Many here do not like UMG's AMSI "remastering", which is really more sound-shaping through DSP (Digital Signal Processing) than anything an audio engineer would associate with teh term "remaster".

[Willem Orange]

Yes that's the one - I was just referencing some remarks by those who had heard the set and liked the sound.

[Oscar]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 1:52:15 PM, Randy Lane wrote:
>
> If yes, be careful. Many here do not like UMG's AMSI "remastering", which is really more
> sound-shaping through DSP (Digital Signal Processing) than anything an audio engineer would
> associate with teh term "remaster".

Yep. I'd steer clear, for sure. If it were remastered by Paschal Byrne at The Audio Archiving Company, London, the man behind those titles which are remastered for Australian Eloquence, then I'd say it's worth investigating. But these previous remastered sets UMG Germany are not recommendable: Schiff Bach box http://tinyurl.com/mugnce7 and Gulda Beethoven box http://tinyurl.com/k8w29e7 The OOP Gulda box on Brilliant (2005) still fetches over $100, as does the Schiff Bach box on Decca (2006). It's not just a collector thing, it's because the sound is real and not processed with fake reverb/ambiance and other dumb stuff.

[wkasimer]

It's considerably cheaper at Amazon UK.

Bill

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 2:30:04 PM UTC-8, Oscar wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 1:52:15 PM, Randy Lane wrote:

> it's because the sound is real and not processed with fake reverb/ambiance and other dumb stuff.<

I don't pay attention to remasterings, but I haven't yet bought the Boehm Ring on CD (to replace my coveted LP copy bought cheap back when I didn't know who Boehm was, let alone what The Ring was about).

Which CD version of this recording has the best sound? One of the great things about the set, aside from the cast and Boehm's effortlessly flowing conducting--is the shear sonic atmosphere of Bayreuth so vivid on the LPs. Fake reverb/ambiance would be shear folly with these recordings.

--Jeff

[Willem Orange]

This version has good sound

http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Nibelungen-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000025ESY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394060769&sr=8-2&keywords=bohm+ring

this cheaper version is I think the same

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Der-Ring-Nibelungen-Richard/dp/B003Y3MYYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394060901&sr=8-1&keywords=bohm+ring

[Oscar]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 2:45:14 PM, jrsnfld wrote:
>
> I don't pay attention to remasterings, but I haven't yet bought the Boehm Ring on CD (to
> replace my coveted LP copy bought cheap back when I didn't know who Boehm was, let
> alone what The Ring was about).
>
> Which CD version of this recording has the best sound? One of the great things about the set,
> aside from the cast and Boehm's effortlessly flowing conducting--is the shear sonic atmosphere
> of Bayreuth so vivid on the LPs. Fake reverb/ambiance would be shear folly with these recordings.

I don't know, Jeff. But if I were you, I would just go for the terrific bargain that is the 33CD all-Wagner 'Great Operas from the Bayreuth Festival' box on Decca http://tinyurl.com/k4ndts7 Böhm Ring included. This set was issued in summer 2008, but went out-of-print shortly after Christmas that year. Decca was so kind to do a clone second-printing last summer, along with the first Mercury Living Presence box, and it's still available.

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:08:49 PM UTC-8, Willem Orange wrote:

> http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Nibelungen-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000025ESY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394060769&sr=8-2&keywords=bohm+ring

> http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Der-Ring-Nibelungen-Richard/dp/B003Y3MYYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394060901&sr=8-1&keywords=bohm+ring

Thanks...at those prices I might spring for it.

--Jeff

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:21:46 PM UTC-8, Oscar wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 2:45:14 PM, jrsnfld wrote:

> I don't know, Jeff. But if I were you, I would just go for the terrific bargain that is the 33CD all-Wagner 'Great Operas from the Bayreuth Festival' box on Decca http://tinyurl.com/k4ndts7 Böhm Ring included.

I'm intrigued, but a bit sickened by purchasing so many discs that are only of moderate interest. I do love Sawallisch's Lohengrin and Boehm's Tristan, but only the Ring is on my "want" list. The price is certainly ok, regardless, but maybe it's a little cheaper just to get the Ring by itself.

--Jeff

p.s., If you were me, I would hope that you would put on sackcloth and forget about buying CDs! :-)

[wkasimer]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:24:28 PM UTC-5, Willem Orange wrote:

> > If yes, be careful. Many here do not like UMG's AMSI "remastering", which is really more sound-shaping through DSP (Digital Signal Processing) than anything an audio engineer would associate with teh term "remaster".<<

I own this Ring in two forms - in the big Wagner at Bayreuth set, and also the aforementioned Eloquence issue. They sound "different", but it's a fairly subtle difference that's only apparent if I listen with good headphones (Sennheiser HD600's) via a Creek headphone amp. The big box is a little smoother in sound, while the Eloquence seems perhaps a bit clearer, but with a trace of hardness in the voices. I don't hear any fake reverb in the latter. Nor, BTW, can I tell which is truer to the "Bayreuth acoustic", since I've never set foot in the Festspielhaus. I will admit that my comparison wasn't very comprehensive - just a couple of spots.

If musical continuity matters to you, though, the Eloquence is preferable. Each act of Siegfried gets its own disc, as does the third act of Walkure. The big box spreads each opera over four discs, which wreaks havoc on Siegfried, and they screwed up Walkure big time - if you use four discs, it's pretty simple to split Act 2 over two discs, and give each of the outer acts its own disc. It's a shame that the Eloquence issue didn't pay attention to the final act of Gotterdammerung, which could have easily fit onto one disc, and not required a split (the same one as in the big box).

BTW, I have a higher opinion of this Ring than "Willem". Yeah, it's fast, sometimes excessively so. But I'd rather hear a fleet performance than one that is long and drawn out without much purpose. It's not my favorite Ring by any means - I'd probably pick the 1955 Keilberth or 1953 Krauss - but I enjoy it a great deal for its fine cast and sonics.

Bill

[Willem Orange]

Yep I'll go with those two Rings as well. Krauss may be my favorite - its hardly slow but he seems not to hate the music the way I get from Bohm (I know I know but that's how I feel about it) And this was definitely one of Keilberths good days (his 1953 Lohengrin is also excellent). Nothing to keep you up for days after but good solid conducting with a cast that makes todays seem pretty awful with a couple exceptions.

[AcousticLevitation.org]

On Monday, March 10, 2014 at 4:51:11 PM UTC-4, wkasimer wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 5:24:28 PM UTC-5, Willem Orange wrote:
>
> > > If yes, be careful. Many here do not like UMG's AMSI "remastering", which is really more sound-shaping through DSP (Digital Signal Processing) than anything an audio engineer would associate with teh term "remaster".<<
>

> I own this Ring in two forms - in the big Wagner at Bayreuth set, and also the aforementioned Eloquence issue. They sound "different", but it's a fairly subtle difference that's only apparent if I listen with good headphones (Sennheiser HD600's) via a Creek headphone amp. The big box is a little smoother in sound, while the Eloquence seems perhaps a bit clearer, but with a trace of hardness in the voices. I don't hear any fake reverb in the latter. Nor, BTW, can I tell which is truer to the "Bayreuth acoustic",[...] I will admit that my comparison wasn't very comprehensive - just a couple of spots.
>
...required a split (the same one as in the big box).
>
> Bill


Hi Bill & Crew,
I only now came upon awareness of the Eloquence reissue. I read what everyone here wrote (thank you) and have two questions.

1/Has anyone done further comparisons of the sonics of the CD editions?

2/ Has anyone compared any of the CD editions with the original Dutch Philips LP pressings, which I own and have loved since they first came out?

Thanks for letting me revive what might be a dead horse, but at least these horses have wings, and I was about to pull the trigger on the Eloquence set.

Yours,
Steve

[wkasimer]

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:25:19 PM UTC-4, AcousticLevitation.org wrote:

> 1/Has anyone done further comparisons of the sonics of the CD editions?

Not really. When I listen to this RING now, though, it's via the Eloquence issue.

> 2/ Has anyone compared any of the CD editions with the original Dutch Philips LP pressings, which I own and have loved since they first came out?

What is this "LP"? :-)

[AcousticLevitation.org]

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 4:35:25 PM UTC-4, wkasimer wrote:
> On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:25:19 PM UTC-4, AcousticLevitation.org wrote:
>
> > 1/Has anyone done further comparisons of the sonics of the CD editions?
>
> Not really. When I listen to this RING now, though, it's via the Eloqu

Thanks, WKence issue.

>
> > 2/ Has anyone compared any of the CD editions with the original Dutch Philips LP pressings, which I own and have loved since they first came out?
>
> What is this "LP"? :-)

Thanks WK, for the eloquent info, and for making me laugh as well. US Amazon has the Eloquence for $115 and Amazon Germany has it for $31 USD including shipping. I might bite, but I really have been enjoying my LPs of Rheingold und Siegfried all afternoon, while trying not to obsess on whether to get the CD edition.
Yours,
Steve

[arel64]

The recent Birgit Nilsson boxset is said to have a completely new remastering of the Böhm Ring:

https://store.deccaclassics.com/*/Box-Sets/La-Nilsson-The-Complete-Decca-Deutsche-Grammophon-Philips-Recordings/5TZ50FG8000

The last act of Götterdämmerung is not split over two discs for the first time.

Did anybody have a chance to compare the sound quality?

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

I have the big Nilsson box but haven't listened to the Bohm Ring or compared it to my earlier version on Eloquence. Frankly no amount of sound improvment will compensate for Bohms conducting of the music.

[Bob Harper]

Why do you dislike it?

Bob Harper

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

Because it’s a lickety split, surface traversal that never approaches the massive resonances of import we hear from Furtwangler, Knappertsbusch, Goodall and others. He consistently fails to realize any sense of repose or expansion at such crucial places as the Todesverkundigung in Walkure, the Waldweben in Siegfried or the Norn scene in Gotterdammerung. In the Waldweben there is not even the basic stability of tempo that Wagner specifies which adversely affects any sense of repose . Take Wotans Narration in Walkure which is so often called boring. It sure is when it’s the hasty recitation we get from Bohm without breadth or shape. I have casting issues as well but you didn’t ask me about those.