What is the BEST recording of Beethoven's 7th?

[Sugapablo]

On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
evening thouroughly.

As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.

Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
the group as to what the best recorded performance is.

So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?

_______________________________________________________
Sugapabl...@stargate.net
http://www.sugapablo.com

To email me, remove "Sugapablo-" from my email address.

[Paul Goldstein]

Coincidentally, my favorite Beethoven 7th features the selfsame Pittsburgh SO
led by its former music director William Steinberg. This was available on the
MCA label but is probably now out of print.
Paul Goldstein

[John Thomas]

In article <3c1d3381...@news.sgi.net>,
Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote:

> On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> evening thouroughly.
>
> As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
>
> Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
>
> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?

There is no such thing as a BEST, but... Carlos Kleiber, coupled with
an equally fine 5th, on DG Originals.

--
-Regards,
John Thomas
jwth...@sonic.net

[Matthew Silverstein]

Sugapablo wrote:

> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?

Well, my favorite recording is Gardiner's on DG/Archiv. (It may still be
available on a single CD--coupled with the 5th, I believe--on DG's anniversary
edition.)

Other favorites include: Barenboim (Teldec), Toscanini/PSONY (RCA), Blomstedt
(Berlin Classics), Brüggen (Philips), Mengelberg (Philips), Mackerras (EMI) .
. .

Matty

[Matthew Silverstein]

I wrote:

> Other favorites include: Barenboim (Teldec), Toscanini/PSONY (RCA),
Blomstedt
> (Berlin Classics), Brüggen (Philips), Mengelberg (Philips), Mackerras (EMI)
.
> . .

And of course Kleiber (DG)--thanks John for reminding me!

Matty

[Frank Berger]

I have a 1957 Steinberg 7th with the PSO on EMI 65611. There is a cutout notch in
the case, so I imagine I got it from Berkshire. Currently, Berkshire has listed
EMI 66888 which contains a Steinberg 7th with the PSO. I imagine these are all
the same performance, but I don't really know.

[Jon A Conrad]

Another vote for C Kleiber on DG (though there are certainly other fine
ones). One thing I especially like about it is that he continues pizz. to
the end of the second movement; however one has to wrench the reading of
the manuscript to justify this (and maybe the manuscript can't really
support it...), it just sounds so very much righter to me that way, always
has.

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu

[mkperman]

"John Thomas" <no-...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:no-spam-828351...@typhoon.sonic.net...

> There is no such thing as a BEST, but... Carlos Kleiber,
coupled with
> an equally fine 5th, on DG Originals.

Kleiber is my second favorite, after Fricsay/BPO on DG.

Marc Perman

[mark doran]

Plus (if memory and theoretical knowledge serve), he has the violins
mis-interpret some of the grace-notes in the second movement: crushed, short
and before the beat, instead of long and on the beat. I repeat: if memory
serves...

Mark D.

"Jon A Conrad" <con...@copland.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:9vjfvs$72c$1...@copland.udel.edu...

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote in news:3c1d3381.20416699
@news.sgi.net:

> On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> evening thouroughly.
>
> As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
>
> Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
>
> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?

There is no such thing as a "best" recording, and such a question is
rather, well, beside the point. Might as well ask a group of people what
is the best kind of restaurant, what is the best novel, what is the best
city to live in, etc.

Better you should ask for favorites, then you won't get lectured like this.
My favorites would have to include Toscanini/New York Philharmonic, Casals,
and Carlos Kleiber.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church

[Sacqueboutier]

"Matthew B. Tepper" wrote:
>
> Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote in news:3c1d3381.20416699
> @news.sgi.net:
>
> > On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> > perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> > evening thouroughly.
> >
> > As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> > immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
> >
> > Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> > CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> > the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
> >
> > So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> > quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> > without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>
> There is no such thing as a "best" recording, and such a question is
> rather, well, beside the point. Might as well ask a group of people what
> is the best kind of restaurant, what is the best novel, what is the best
> city to live in, etc.
>
> Better you should ask for favorites, then you won't get lectured like this.
> My favorites would have to include Toscanini/New York Philharmonic, Casals,
> and Carlos Kleiber.

I've enjoyed Kleiber, Toscanini, Karajan (1962), Bernstein,
Gardiner, and Collegium Aureum (no conductor). One of my
favorites is Szell on Sony. The horns are not to be believed.

--
AAAAAHHHHH! The atmosphere! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Don Patterson

* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@olg.com

* Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band

[Sol L. Siegel]

Two more candidates: Monteux and Cantelli, both early stereo.

(Currently playing the Weingartner 9th to celebrate the Bday.)

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"To every complicated question, there is an answer that is simple, satisfying
and wrong." - Winston Churchill
--------------------
(Remove "junkfree" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)

[Matthew Silverstein]

Don wrote:

> I've enjoyed Kleiber, Toscanini, Karajan (1962), Bernstein,
> Gardiner, and Collegium Aureum (no conductor). One of my
> favorites is Szell on Sony. The horns are not to be believed.

If it's horns you want, try the Blomstedt/Dresden recording on Berlin
Classics. No one comes close . . .

Matty

[StannZoe]

I liked the stereo Stokowski, though not many will agree. He took the last
movement slowly enough that the violinists could actually play the notes - not
many do. I find C. Kleiber too driven in 7, but the cd is worth getting for
the 5th Sym.

[David Wake]

Monteux/LSO is my current favorite.

David

[John Wilson]

On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:54:58 -0600, Frank Berger
<frank.d...@dal.frb.org> wrote:

>I have a 1957 Steinberg 7th with the PSO on EMI 65611. There is a cutout notch in
>the case, so I imagine I got it from Berkshire. Currently, Berkshire has listed
>EMI 66888 which contains a Steinberg 7th with the PSO. I imagine these are all
>the same performance, but I don't really know.
>

The MCA can be found at Graveyard Mall.com. But I'm not sure the EMI
and MCA would be the same recording. The MCA was originally part of
an entire Beethoven cycle Steinberg recorded with the Pittsburgh for
Command. I don't believe there was reciprocal relationship between
Command and EMI. Anyone know the story?

John

[John Wilson]

Besides the ones named by Matty above I would like to put in a vote
also for Beecham/RPO stereo 7th (EMI) and Reiner/CSO (RCA).

John

[Martha & Russ Oppenheim]

If the subject is the Stokowski/Symphony of the Air performance, I found
only the 1st movement listenable. Stoki's musical conscience suddently
disappears down a black hole beginning with an unnecessarily funereal
pace in the slow movement, a scherzo cut to 60% of its normal length
because of the omission of the 2nd trio, and a shocking 32-bar cut near
the end of the finale.

[Paul Goldstein]

Frank Berger <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> wrote in message news:<3C1D4262...@dal.frb.org>...

They are different performances, though probably similar in
interpretation (I haven't heard the one you have, Frank). The one I
mentioned was recorded by Command, I think about 6 years later than
the one on Capitol/EMI.

[Edward A. Cowan]

To be sure, Stoki could have cited the precedent of Richard Strauss'
recording of the LvB 7th, in which the fourth mvt. is cut to ribbons,
evidently to fit on a *single* 78rpm side (timing: 4:21)! --E.A.C. (who
twice heard Stoki conduct this work, once with the Phila. Orch. (strike
benefit concert, fall, 1966); concert in Academy of Music by the Boston
SO)

Martha & Russ Oppenheim <moppe...@satx.rr.com> wrote:

> Stoki's musical conscience suddently
> disappears down a black hole beginning with an unnecessarily funereal
> pace in the slow movement, a scherzo cut to 60% of its normal length
> because of the omission of the 2nd trio, and a shocking 32-bar cut near
> the end of the finale.

--
E.A.C.

[kenneth kwan]

my vote goes to bruggen and reiner/cso.

[John Grabowski]

Britney Spears, in her album "Roll Over Me, Beethoven."

John

--
For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge
increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 18

[David Gideon]

<< The MCA was originally part of
an entire Beethoven cycle Steinberg recorded with the Pittsburgh for
Command. I don't believe there was reciprocal relationship between
Command and EMI. Anyone know the story? >>

He recorded it for Capitol (EMI version) then a few years later for Command as
part of the complete cycle (MCA).

dg

CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances from Scherchen, Stokowski,
Paray, Steinberg, and more, exclusively at:
http://members.aol.com/rediscclassics

[Samir Golescu]

> Britney Spears, in her album "Roll Over Me, Beethoven."

"Beethoven"? Why the distance?

[Sacqueboutier]

I'll try that sometime.

Horn legend has it that Szell tripled the horns in his
recording of the 7th. The coupled with Myron Bloom's
capacity for loud playing make it a pretty hair raising
experience. Probably not what Beethoven originally had in
mind, but considering his deafness, he probably wouldn't
have complained too much.

[John Thomas]

In article <3C1E360E...@earthlink.net>,
John Grabowski <jg...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Britney Spears, in her album "Roll Over Me, Beethoven."
>
>
>
>
>
> John

Surely you mean her classic "Roll one for me, Beethoven."

[Ward Hardman]

In rec.music.classical.recordings John Thomas <no-...@sonic.net> wrote:
: In article <3C1E360E...@earthlink.net>,
: John Grabowski <jg...@earthlink.net> wrote:

:> Britney Spears, in her album "Roll Over Me, Beethoven."

:>

: Surely you mean her classic "Roll one for me, Beethoven."

Or "Roll me over (and show my 'good side'), Beethoven." ;-)

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just simple
competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[Ward Hardman]

Martha & Russ Oppenheim <moppe...@satx.rr.com> wrote:

: StannZoe wrote:
:> I liked the stereo Stokowski, [snip]

: If the subject is the Stokowski/Symphony of the Air performance, I found

: only the 1st movement listenable. Stoki's musical conscience suddently
: disappears down a black hole beginning with an unnecessarily funereal
: pace in the slow movement, a scherzo cut to 60% of its normal length
: because of the omission of the 2nd trio, and a shocking 32-bar cut near
: the end of the finale.

I've always been partial to Stoky's 1927 Philadelphia Seventh, in which
the second movement is like a soak in a Marin County hot-tub... an entirely
different kind of revel than a funeral. ;-)

[Wat Marion]

"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy?earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<cdcT7.7796$O7.8...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote in news:3c1d3381.20416699
> @news.sgi.net:
>
> > On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> > perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> > evening thouroughly.
> >
> > As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> > immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
> >
> > Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> > CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> > the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
> >
> > So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> > quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> > without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>
> There is no such thing as a "best" recording, and such a question is
> rather, well, beside the point. Might as well ask a group of people what
> is the best kind of restaurant, what is the best novel, what is the best
> city to live in, etc.
>
> Better you should ask for favorites, then you won't get lectured like this.
> My favorites would have to include Toscanini/New York Philharmonic, Casals,
> and Carlos Kleiber.

That's what the person meant. Why are they 'favorites'? Because they
are in some way better? If you can have better can't you have best? Is
Tepper a machine with stock responses to given stimuli? Has anyone
ever checked Tepper's signal-to-noise ratio?

[Martha & Russ Oppenheim]

I wrote:
>
> If the subject is the Stokowski/Symphony of the Air performance, I found
> only the 1st movement listenable. Stoki's musical conscience suddently
> disappears down a black hole beginning with an unnecessarily funereal
> pace in the slow movement, a scherzo cut to 60% of its normal length

> because of the omission of the 2nd trio, and a shocking 32-bar [sic] cut near

> the end of the finale.

Whoops, it's not 32 bars, it's 16. I was mentally counting beats
instead of bars. Smart-ass cuts in Beethoven are still unforgivable
IMO.

[Samir Golescu]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Martha & Russ Oppenheim wrote:

> Whoops, it's not 32 bars, it's 16. I was mentally counting beats
> instead of bars. Smart-ass cuts in Beethoven are still unforgivable
> IMO.

I tend to agree, for the Seventh and in principle -- Beethoven was such a
master of concision and development, usuall BUT..... what about the second
movement in opus 90??!! I'm afraid no pianist succeeded in not having me
yawn after 1/2 of it....

regards,
SG

____________

"Les laics, respectant la liberte de conscience chez leurs adversaires,
se refusent a faire usage contre eux de toute mesure de contrainte.
Au contraire, nos adversaires ne se font aucun scrupule, pour aneantir
l'idee laique, d'employer la force ou la ruse. Ce faisant, ils se savent
justifies d'avance par leur doctrine meme. Pour eux, l'esprit laique,
c'est le mal, et tous les procedes sont bons pour detruire le mal."

Paul Raphael -- Cahiers rationalistes (1957)

[Martha & Russ Oppenheim]

Paul Goldstein wrote:
>
> Coincidentally, my favorite Beethoven 7th features the selfsame Pittsburgh SO
> led by its former music director William Steinberg. This was available on the
> MCA label but is probably now out of print.

> Paul Goldstein

Perhaps someone in the ng could provide a comparison of Steinberg's EMI
(Capitol) and MCA (Command) 7ths. I found Steinberg's MCA 7th to be
rather more deliberately paced than I would have expected (except for
the scherzo that takes off in a shower of gravel). He takes the 1st
movt expo repeat (which I have always thought sounded kind of awkward),
and from the timing I assume he does also in the EMI recording.
(Several other Steinberg Beethoven performances from the Command series
are electrifying, as fine as any I have ever heard; one can piece them
together between MCA and Rediscclassics.) I just scored an open reel of
his Command Eroica which I have not heard yet.

My favored Sevenths are:

Toscanini/NBC - sure, I'm SUPPOSED to worship the NYPSO version but I
like the brutal energy of the NBC esp the finale.

Cantelli/Philharmonia - "as fresh and glistening as creation itself," as
B H Haggin put it, although I think he was quoting someone else.

Karajan/BPO (1962) - movt II theme too legato but listenable; terrific
finale.
The one I play most.

Reiner/CSO - IMO just about ideal except for the artificial elongations
of phrase in the finale development (mm 129 thru 141).

In my personal doghouse:

Stokowski who cuts the finale towards the end.
Walter, who reharmonizes it towards the end. >:o(

[Neil]

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:00:11 GMT, Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo)
wrote:

>
>So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
>quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
>without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece

Klemperer/Philharmonia (1955 STEREO recording not the later one) - Testament
(?)

[A. Brain]

My current favorite is usually the one I am listening to. Over the years, I
have enjoyed Fricsay (on Heliodor LP, now on DGG Originals?), Walter on
Odyssey LP, now CBS/Sony CD, Kleiber on DGG LP, now CD, and Monteux on
Decca, coupled with another great 7th, that of Dvorak.

--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email

"David Wake" <dn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9n1yhup...@Turing.Stanford.EDU...

[Al R]

If sound in not primary, the best I've heard is
Toscanini #1, Szell #2. The Toscanini 7th is a good example as to why he
was so highly regarded.
Al

[Small-Mountain]

Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote in message news:<3c1d3381...@news.sgi.net>...

For a real 'piece d'occasion' try Barenboim and the Berliners recorded
'live' straight after the fall of the Berlin wall (Sony). I don't know
if it's still in the catalogue but it beats the socks off Bernstein's
wierd and not very wonderful 9th, done a litle later in conection with
the same momentous event.

Bryn Harris.

[gbravy]

David Wake <dn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9n1yhup...@Turing.Stanford.EDU>...

> Monteux/LSO is my current favorite.
>
> David

Yes...quite so....Monteux was able to generate both power and grace....

[vaneyes]

In article <3c1d3381...@news.sgi.net>, Sugapablo says...

>
>On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
>perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
>evening thouroughly.
>
>As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
>immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
>
>Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
>CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
>the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
>

>So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
>quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power

>without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?

VPO/Kleiber, DG Originals, cw an equally fine LvB 5.

Regards

[Digiti]

I agree with those mentioned, but also consider in addition:
Bernstein NYPhil [SONY] or Vienna[DGG] ,not his last concert with BSO
Bohm Vienna Phil[DGG]
Karajan Berlin Phil 1962[DGG]

"vaneyes" <van...@nospamexcite.com> wrote in message
news:8ObU7.4951$XC5....@www.newsranger.com...

[Dan Koren]

Sugapabl...@stargate.net (Sugapablo) wrote in message news:<3c1d3381...@news.sgi.net>...
>

> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>

Reiner/CSO/1955.

dk

[alanf]

SOUNDS like SZELL'S Epic[Columbia recording] from c. 1960 to me.
Just listened on vinyl. His fugueal 2nd movement, featured double bass,
momentum, melodic line are superb.

Toscanini's [also on vinyl] RCA/LM-1756 is idiosyncratic- great[?] but far
less romantic, i.m.h.o.

A nice newbie is Frubeck De Burgos' on Collins, c. 1990.

Alan

Wat Marion <ty...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ac4e2a7.01121...@posting.google.com...

[notrump15-17]

Reiner-CSO on RCA Living Stereo vintage 1955. Fast, taut, lean, exciting,
especially in the finale. Superb playing & conducting. Excellent sonics.
"Sugapablo" <Sugapabl...@stargate.net> wrote in message
news:3c1d3381...@news.sgi.net...

> On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> evening thouroughly.
>
> As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
>
> Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
>
> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>
>

> _______________________________________________________
> Sugapabl...@stargate.net
> http://www.sugapablo.com
>
> To email me, remove "Sugapablo-" from my email address.
>

[calt...@earthlink.net]

I haven't heard Brüggen's 7th, but if it's anything like his 5th, it
would be totally unlistenable. One of those that sound like he left
his car at a 15-minute meter.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:40:36 -0500, "Matthew Silverstein"
<msil...@umich.edu> wrote:

>Sugapablo wrote:
>
>> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
>> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
>> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>

>Well, my favorite recording is Gardiner's on DG/Archiv. (It may still be
>available on a single CD--coupled with the 5th, I believe--on DG's anniversary
>edition.)
>
>Other favorites include: Barenboim (Teldec), Toscanini/PSONY (RCA), Blomstedt
>(Berlin Classics), Brüggen (Philips), Mengelberg (Philips), Mackerras (EMI) .
>. .
>
>Matty
>
>
>

[Pioneer]

I vote for any recording with Furtwangler conducting.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, December 16, 2001 at 4:00:11 PM UTC-8, Sugapablo wrote:
> On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> evening thouroughly.
>
> As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
>
> Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
>
> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Sugapabl...@stargate.net
> http://www.sugapablo.com
>
> To email me, remove "Sugapablo-" from my email address.

https://slippedisc.com/2020/06/beethovens-seventh-everyone-agrees/

[gggg gggg]

(Recent Youtube upload):

Repertoire: The BEST Beethoven Seventh Symphony

[Owen]

The best one is the one where it sounds like all yaks jumping about.

-Owen

[Phl Maestro]

I see I some how missed this one in 2001, so:

C. Kleiber/Orfeo
Barenboim/Teldec (he also led the best 7th I've seen live; with the CSO)
Furtwangler wartime

[Randy Lane]

On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 2:20:26 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:

> Asking about performance, recording, or both? To
> my ears, the best LvB Symphony no. 7 is this one:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcqmkn2upttlnze/AABswlEMXT5TC5j8Sgi6UytFa?dl=0
>
> It can be played as a single work by pointing the
> VLC player to the folder, rather than to individual
> files.It can also be played directly in one's browser
> if one would rather not download the files without
> knowing their provenance
>
> In the interest of saving download bandwidth and
> space, I encoded the files at as MP4a/AAC at the
> highest quality level -- 512 kbps FBR.
>
> I can also provide FLAC if anyone is interested,
> however the size is more than double even at
> the highest compression level.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> dk
>
> PS. I am particularly interested in finding out if
> MELMOTH can identify the semi-conductor and
> the orchestra through his magnificent system!
Nothing has changed my mind on this question for a few decades now.
Colin Davis (or perhaps it is really the ghost of Sir Thomas Beecham) with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in 1961 on EMI/Warner.

[gggg gggg]

On Sunday, December 16, 2001 at 4:00:11 PM UTC-8, Sugapablo wrote:
> On Saturday, I took my wife to see the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> perform Beethoven's seventh symphony. Needless to say she enjoyed the
> evening thouroughly.
> As the orchestra hit the final note of the piece, the audience
> immediately roared with approval. The performance was excellent.
> Beethoven's 7th is only one of two of his symphonies I do not have on
> CD and I'd like to purchase a copy for us. I'd like the opinion of
> the group as to what the best recorded performance is.
> So lend me your opinion. Which recording do you feel is the
> quintessential 7th? Which one diplays the raw energy and power
> without overdoing it and losing the subtle nuances of the piece?
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Sugapabl...@stargate.net
> http://www.sugapablo.com
> To email me, remove "Sugapablo-" from my email address.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics4/beethovenseventh.html

[tonyh]

On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 4:10:14 AM UTC, dk wrote:
> On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 2:20:26 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
> > On Friday, March 26, 2021 at 10:00:12 AM UTC-7, Phl Maestro wrote:

> > Asking about performance, recording, or both? To
> > my ears, the best LvB Symphony no. 7 is this one:
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcqmkn2upttlnze/AABswlEMXT5TC5j8Sgi6UytFa?dl=0
> >
> > It can be played as a single work by pointing the
> > VLC player to the folder, rather than to individual
> > files.It can also be played directly in one's browser
> > if one would rather not download the files without
> > knowing their provenance
> >
> > In the interest of saving download bandwidth and
> > space, I encoded the files at as MP4a/AAC at the
> > highest quality level -- 512 kbps FBR.
> >
> > I can also provide FLAC if anyone is interested,
> > however the size is more than double even at
> > the highest compression level.

> The FLAC version sounds very slightly "better", at
> least on my PC and through my headphones. The
> sound seems a little "rounder" and less edgy.
>
> dk
Well I like what I hear but as I’m rubbish with music quizzes I’d like to know who it is (please...))

[tonyh]

On Saturday, March 27, 2021 at 8:07:20 PM UTC, dk wrote:

> > Well I like what I hear but as I’m rubbish with music
> > quizzes I’d like to know who it is (please...))

> Thanks for listening. The purpose of posting a recording
> anonymously is definitely not to start a guessing contest.
>
> It is to allow listeners to focus on what they hear without
> allowing themselves to be influenced by pre-conceived
> notions about the performer, or possibly even prejudice.
>
> Since you liked what you heard, please elaborate on
> your experience -- what you liked and why, what you
> liked less and why, and so on.
>
> I will reveal the identity of the conductor and of the
> orchestra in a few days.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> dk
Well I'm no expert but will give it a go !
Having listened for the last few years to mainly HIPP or HIPP-influenced readings, with their very swift tempos, tailed-off phrase endings, sharp drum thwacks, lack of vibrato etc etc., it was a nice re-acquaintance in this recording with a more 'old school' type of performance that I grew up with. It's obviously a traditional modern orchestra, and for a live concert very fine playing. No first movement exposition repeat is fine by me, as the lead back in is a bit clumsy to my ears, and the tempo of the first three movements is on the steady side. This doesn't matter as the conductor sounds like he's thought about internal balance of instruments and energy and pulse coming from the bass lines, so there's plenty of rhythmic vigour and no madcap rushing through phrases, which is welcome. The finale is very exciting and probably as fast as most others these days, so the symphonic momentum is properly maintained to where it should be - the ending !!
It does remind me as I say of records I grew up with, which in the case of the 7th were Davis/ RPO and Cluytens/ BPO, then latterly Leibowitz/ RPO. I really couldn't hazard a guess out of the multitude around these days, but have certainly gone back to it more than once !

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Monday, 29 March 2021 at 09:29:44 UTC+11, dk wrote:

> > Well I'm no expert but will give it a go !

> Thanks again for listening and for your thoughtful comments.
>
> > Having listened for the last few years to mainly HIP or HIP-influenced

> > readings, with their very swift tempos, tailed-off phrase endings, sharp
> > drum thwacks, lack of vibrato etc etc., it was a nice re-acquaintance in
> > this recording with a more 'old school' type of performance that I grew
> > up with.

> It is not obvious to me how (and even if) the "HIP" concept applies to
> romantic or late romantic composers' music.

> > It's obviously a traditional modern orchestra, and for a live concert very
> > fine playing.

> It is one of the best known orchestras on the planet! ;-)

> > No first movement exposition repeat is fine by me, as the lead back in
> > is a bit clumsy to my ears, and the tempo of the first three movements
> > is on the steady side.

> No exposition repeat is great! This allows more time for intermission
> and for coffee and chitchat.

> > This doesn't matter as the conductor sounds like he's thought about
> > internal balance of instruments and energy and pulse coming from
> > the bass lines, so there's plenty of rhythmic vigour and no madcap
> > rushing through phrases, which is welcome.

> This is good to hear! Does this remind you of any conductor you know?

> > The finale is very exciting and probably as fast as most others these
> > days, so the symphonic momentum is properly maintained to where
> > it should be - the ending !!

> Interesting. I do not find the finale particularly fast, especially when
> compared with other performances. I find the tempo "just right" --
> plenty of flow and forward momentum, without feeling rushed.

> > It does remind me as I say of records I grew up with, which in the
> > case of the 7th were Davis/ RPO and Cluytens/ BPO, then latterly
> > Leibowitz/ RPO. I really couldn't hazard a guess out of the multitude
> > around these days, but have certainly gone back to it more than once!

> The orchestra is actually the LSO. Would you say this is a British,
> German, American or Russian conductor? None of the above? All
> of the above? French? An alien from another planet? ;-)
>
> dk

Surely it must be Pierre Monteux/LSO.

Ray Hall, Taree

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Monday, 29 March 2021 at 10:26:53 UTC+11, dk wrote:

> > > The orchestra is actually the LSO. Would you say this is a British,
> > > German, American or Russian conductor? None of the above? All
> > > of the above? French? An alien from another planet? ;-)
> >

> > Surely it must be Pierre Monteux/LSO.

> No Monteux, just the LSO! ;-)
>
> Have you listened?
>
> dk

No, but I will.

Ray Hall, Taree

[tonyh]

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 4:08:59 AM UTC+1, dk wrote:
> On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:

> > > Surely it must be Pierre Monteux/LSO.
> >

> > No Monteux, just the LSO! ;-)

> I just noticed another cockpit error! It isn't the LSO, it is the RPO!
> Mea culpa!
>
> To alleviate the injury, here is a Mahler 5th from the same concert!
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0ufpicefa5e6017/AACWyvNr3uy0JMGqfAFcFo3Ua?dl=0
>
> This should narrow things down quite a bit! ;-)
>
> dk
Tut tut - and there's me losing a night's sleep trying to figure out a recent LSO live concert NOT in the Barbican...))
The RPO have a distinguished history in this work (Davis, Leibowitz, Wordsworth) but I think this one is your alien...

[tonyh]

On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 9:04:54 PM UTC+1, dk wrote:

> > Tut tut - and there's me losing a night's sleep trying to figure
> > out a recent LSO live concert NOT in the Barbican...))
> > The RPO have a distinguished history in this work (Davis,
> > Leibowitz, Wordsworth) but I think this one is your alien...

> Did you hear the Mahler?
>
> dk
Not yet but plan to - it'll be enjoyable I'm sure as the recording quality here is first rate (acoustic, balance etc) and I also have a favourite Mahler 5 in my collection from the RPO and Gatti, so I know they do it well...

[Owen]

>> The finale is very exciting and probably as fast as most others these
>> days, so the symphonic momentum is properly maintained to where
>> it should be - the ending !!
>

> Interesting. I do not find the finale particularly fast, especially when
> compared with other performances. I find the tempo "just right" --
> plenty of flow and forward momentum, without feeling rushed.
>

I found the finale completely without yaks, much to my disappointment.
No sense of being on the edge of losing it, being completely and
comfortably in control. I was impressed with the majesty of the 2nd
movement, but the lack of yaks makes it a deal breaker for me.

-Owen

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 30 March 2021 at 14:45:39 UTC+11, dk wrote:

> Thanks for listening. Are these comments about the Beethoven 7
> or about the Mahler 5? What are "yaks" and how do they sound?
>
> dk

Sir Thomas Beecham might help you with yaks.
Apparently they are high altitude oxen, distantly related to North American bison, and live in places like Nepal. And they can jump about 4 feet, especially when hungry, as Sir TB well knew.

Ray Hall, Taree

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 30 March 2021 at 15:37:14 UTC+11, dk wrote:

> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 9:17:33 PM UTC-7, raymond.....com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 30 March 2021 at 14:45:39 UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:22:41 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:
> > > > >> The finale is very exciting and probably as fast as most others these
> > > > >> days, so the symphonic momentum is properly maintained to where
> > > > >> it should be - the ending !!
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting. I do not find the finale particularly fast, especially when
> > > > > compared with other performances. I find the tempo "just right" --
> > > > > plenty of flow and forward momentum, without feeling rushed.
> > > > >
> > > > I found the finale completely without yaks, much to my disappointment.
> > > > No sense of being on the edge of losing it, being completely and
> > > > comfortably in control. I was impressed with the majesty of the 2nd
> > > > movement, but the lack of yaks makes it a deal breaker for me.
> > > >
> > > Thanks for listening. Are these comments about the Beethoven 7
> > > or about the Mahler 5? What are "yaks" and how do they sound?
> >

> > Sir Thomas Beecham might help you with yaks.

> ?!?

> > Apparently they are high altitude oxen, distantly related to North
> > American bison, and live in places like Nepal. And they can jump
> > about 4 feet, especially when hungry, as Sir TB well knew.

> Is there a part for yaks in Mahler's 5th?
>
> dk

Only when wearing yak bells.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Owen]

On 3/29/21 11:52 PM, dk wrote:

> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:45:39 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
>> On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 8:22:41 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:

>> Thanks for listening. Are these comments about the Beethoven 7
>> or about the Mahler 5? What are "yaks" and how do they sound?
>>
>

> Could you please provide some yak examples for illustration?
> Camels too if you can spare some for Sheherazade! ;-)
>

I have no camels, but I am happy to provide a surfeit of yaks:
http://www.woodsedge.com/tibetan-yak

These yaks take their Beethoven seriously!

Of course, I am referring to the Beethoven 7th, a la Beecham, who
famously remarked about it:

"well, what can you do with it? It's like a bunch of yaks jumping about."



-Owen

[Owen]

On 3/30/21 2:35 PM, dk wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification. It is not obvious to me where
> and how did TB manage to form an impression about yaks.

Obviously, from deep musical study and countless hours interpreting the
score. You don't get to conduct all those famous orchestras without
doing some study time.

>
> In any case, I stand by my assessment of the recordings I
> posted -- yaks or no yaks.

As well you should. Myself and my tin ears remain with Beecham and the
livestock on this point. That symphony simply has to have yaks.

-Owen

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 31 March 2021 at 16:03:23 UTC+11, dk wrote:

> >
> Executive summary: yaks don't make music,
> they can only make smelly butter! ;-)
>
> dk

https://www.yakmeat.us/yakmeat.html

Yak meat is about the healthiest and tastiest red meat you can buy.
Try some sometime ;)

Ray Hall, Taree

[Flowsouth8]

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 7:07:20 AM UTC+2, dk wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 10:03:23 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 9:50:41 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 9:38:27 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:

> > > > I will listen to the yaks again and find out! ;-)
> > > >
> > > I listened to the yaks
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UbzRXAVL4
> > > but I could not hear the music! BT must have kept
> > > the orchestra on an LSD diet for months! However
> > > if that makes one happy, then it makes one happy.
> > > To my ears this is a perfect example why I hate
> > > Beethoven's music. Crude, loud and vulgar. I
> > > now have to listen to some Debussy.

> > >
> > Executive summary: yaks don't make music,
> > they can only make smelly butter! ;-)
> >

> Real music without yaks:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6g-u6SiO_M&t=1222s
> And of course the one I posted earlier.
>
> dk

Are you going to reveal the mystery performance? The one posted here seems to be different.

[tonyh]

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 10:31:48 AM UTC+1, dk wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 2:26:19 AM UTC-7, dk wrote:

> > > Are you going to reveal the mystery performance?
> > > The one posted here seems to be different.

> > Yes indeed, this was just an example of a non-yakky
> > performance of Beethoven 7th.
> >
> > The mystery performances come from the RPO's
> > Japan tour in 2009.
> I happened to be in Tokyo at the right time....
>
> dk
So is this Dutoit ..??

[tonyh]

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 11:31:58 AM UTC+1, dk wrote:

> > So is this Dutoit ..??

> NOOOOO !!!
>
> Can you imagine Dan Koren paying to hear Dutoit? ;-)
>
> dk
I must admit it seemed unbelievable for this to be him...

[tonyh]

Mackerras and Ashkenazy had close ties with the orchestra, but again....

[tonyh]

Or this guy Nishimoto, who I admit I've never heard or heard of, but who recorded Mahler 5 with the RPO Tokyo, 2009...)))

[Frank Berger]

One listen and I knew it was Tomomi Nishimoto. Kidding. I looked it up.

https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/KICC-90845

[Frank Berger]

Copies on Ebay and Amazon but $$$.

[Frank Berger]

Gal, not guy. Wikipedia uses pronoun "her."

[Frank Berger]

Scored a used copy in Amazon.uk for only $40.

[tonyh]

Haha was about to make a flippant remark about androgyny...(should have done my homework) but definitely a good performance!

[Owen]

On 3/31/21 1:07 AM, dk wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 10:03:23 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 9:50:41 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 9:38:27 PM UTC-7, dk wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 9:22:45 PM UTC-7, Owen wrote:

>>>>>>> Of course, I am referring to the Beethoven 7th, a la Beecham, who
>>>>>>> famously remarked about it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "well, what can you do with it? It's like a bunch of yaks jumping about."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification. It is not obvious to me where
>>>>>> and how did TB manage to form an impression about yaks.
>>>>> Obviously, from deep musical study and countless hours interpreting the
>>>>> score. You don't get to conduct all those famous orchestras without
>>>>> doing some study time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any case, I stand by my assessment of the recordings I
>>>>>> posted -- yaks or no yaks.
>>>>>
>>>>> As well you should. Myself and my tin ears remain with Beecham and the
>>>>> livestock on this point. That symphony simply has to have yaks.
>>>>>

>>>> I will listen to the yaks again and find out! ;-)
>>>>
>>> I listened to the yaks
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8UbzRXAVL4
>>> but I could not hear the music! BT must have kept
>>> the orchestra on an LSD diet for months! However
>>> if that makes one happy, then it makes one happy.
>>> To my ears this is a perfect example why I hate
>>> Beethoven's music. Crude, loud and vulgar. I
>>> now have to listen to some Debussy.
>>>
>> Executive summary: yaks don't make music,
>> they can only make smelly butter! ;-)
>>
>
> Real music without yaks:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6g-u6SiO_M&t=1222s
> And of course the one I posted earlier.
>

It's not just the presence or absence of yaks which make the symphony,
it's their er...yaktivity.

Beecham makes them jumping about. Toscanini lines them up four abreast
and marches them perfectly on tempo to the point of stampeding.
Furtwangler captures the meditative intensity of Nepalese yak. Carlos
Kleiber probed the score and correctly articulated, not too loud nor too
soft, the horn on each and every one of the yaks.

You might consider my musical criticism abysmal, but it is no worse than
others I have read, and in some instances, preferable.

-Owen

[number_six]

This is about the time in an LvB 7 thread when I might mention David Munrow's arrangement for ZARDOZ

Whoops, there it is.

[Frank Berger]

On 3/31/2021 3:04 PM, dk wrote:
> Tomomi Nishimoto

Does the 14-cd set include the Bolshoi recordings?