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Stupidest classical critic/"academic"?

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sidoze

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Aug 11, 2005, 3:37:52 PM8/11/05
to
My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm

Richard Loeb

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Aug 11, 2005, 3:40:27 PM8/11/05
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Hard to answer -there are so many to choose from. Richard


"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

sidoze

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Aug 11, 2005, 3:46:31 PM8/11/05
to
>Richard Loeb wrote:
> Hard to answer -there are so many to choose from. Richard

Indeed. May I take your vote for Dr. self Wrighteous then?

JohnGavin

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Aug 11, 2005, 3:57:31 PM8/11/05
to

His Chopin essay makes me think he's autistic, or has some sort of
disorder. His written style lapses quite frequently in sort of
emotional retrograde. He'll sound fairly intelligent in one sentence,
then he falls into a sort of 3rd grade show-and-tell narrative. When
his essay draws conclusions from historical evidence he sounds
stunningly immature for a man his age (judging from the photo). The
whole thing is entertaining on one hand, and disturbing on the other.

Richard Loeb

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Aug 11, 2005, 4:06:50 PM8/11/05
to
If you wish, as far as I am concerned almost all of them are equally
incompetent and useless - oh bring back the days of Conrad L. Osborne, Will
Crutchfield and David Hamilton - now they could write about musical
performances and the current crop don't deserve to shine their shoes
Richard


sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1123789591....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Paul Goldstein

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Aug 11, 2005, 3:53:28 PM8/11/05
to
In article <1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, sidoze
says...

>
>My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
>some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
>http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm

Thanks for the reference. I'm doubled up laughing at some of the stuff in this
piece.

david...@aol.com

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Aug 11, 2005, 4:12:55 PM8/11/05
to

Stravinsky wrote a nasty little piece about two critics who had been
yipping at his heels for years entitled "Slightly More than a Plague on
Both Their Houses," referring to the critics as H.P. Langweilig and
W.S. Deaf. He meant Paul Henry Lang and Winthrop Sargent.

-david gable

SG

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Aug 11, 2005, 5:06:53 PM8/11/05
to

I read the Chopin article. It's hilarious rather than angering. Tons of
involuntary humour. It says next to nothing about Chopin and more than
one needs to know about the author.

Well, at least I heard of somebody today who sincerely thinks
Kalkbrenner was a genius while Chopin wasn't.

regards,
SG

Simon Roberts

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Aug 11, 2005, 5:25:34 PM8/11/05
to
In article <1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, sidoze
says...
>
>My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
>some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
>http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>

I was relieved to see that he "achieved his Doctor of Philosophy degree by
research."

Simon

graham

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Aug 11, 2005, 5:47:12 PM8/11/05
to

"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>

My vote would go to Hilary Finch. The Gramophone actually improved when she
stopped writing for it.
Graham


mikep...@gmail.com

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Aug 11, 2005, 6:29:54 PM8/11/05
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>From the Webern essay:

"If you take the seven note of the major scale ( the eighth being a
doubling of the first) and arranged them in every possible order to
make a theme the law of mathematics makes it evident that soon you will
run out of original themes."

Ohhh, so that's why 12-tone music was invented. Because they ran out of
diatonic themes! Duh.

Tom Deacon

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Aug 11, 2005, 6:15:41 PM8/11/05
to


On 8/11/05 3:37 PM, in article
1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "sidoze"
<sid...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.

You know this from intimate knowledge?

Or it is just one of your passing fantasies?

Actually, I should have thought that the absence or presence of testicles
was impossible to detect without a close physical examination.

TD

Tom Deacon

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Aug 11, 2005, 6:18:21 PM8/11/05
to


On 8/11/05 5:06 PM, in article
1123794413.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "SG"
<SGG...@gmail.com> wrote:

That is as may be. And obviously opinions may vary.

But I still have no indication that this gentleman has had his testicles
removed.

TD

Dan Koren

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Aug 11, 2005, 8:54:06 PM8/11/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>


All of them.

dk


John Harrington

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Aug 11, 2005, 9:10:18 PM8/11/05
to

I don't know what's special about this guy. All critics sound pretty
much just like him to me...his opinions are simply stronger and less
orthodox than most.


J

david...@aol.com

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Aug 11, 2005, 9:27:24 PM8/11/05
to

>I don't know what's special about this guy. All critics sound pretty much just like him to me...his opinions are simply stronger and less orthodox than most.

Ah, how debased the concept of "the critic" has become. Coleridge was
a critic. Oscar Wilde was a critic. These knuckleheads are reviewers.


-david gable

Matthew B. Tepper

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Aug 11, 2005, 10:12:12 PM8/11/05
to
"graham" <g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:AHPKe.195122$%K2.150147@pd7tw1no:

What? No mention of my bête noir, André Tubeuf? Or of my former
professor, Susan McClary?

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Hey spammers, look what happened to Vardan Kushnir. You're next!

graham

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Aug 11, 2005, 10:26:16 PM8/11/05
to

"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96AFC358DB7...@207.69.189.191...

> "graham" <g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:AHPKe.195122$%K2.150147@pd7tw1no:
>
>> "sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
>>> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>>>
>>> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>>
>> My vote would go to Hilary Finch. The Gramophone actually improved when
>> she stopped writing for it.
>
> What? No mention of my bête noir, André Tubeuf? Or of my former
> professor, Susan McClary?
>
You mean they are worse? I didn't think that was possible.
Graham


Donald Patterson

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Aug 11, 2005, 11:10:58 PM8/11/05
to
On 8/11/05 4:06 PM, in article --ednQNp-JVB...@comcast.com, "Richard
Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote:

> If you wish, as far as I am concerned almost all of them are equally
> incompetent and useless - oh bring back the days of Conrad L. Osborne, Will
> Crutchfield and David Hamilton - now they could write about musical
> performances and the current crop don't deserve to shine their shoes
> Richard
>


I wish Fanfare could bring back Vince Alfano.

--
Don Patterson
Trombonist
Arranger/Copyist
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band

Matthew B. Tepper

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Aug 12, 2005, 1:55:29 AM8/12/05
to
Donald Patterson <don_...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:BF218B82.6642%don_...@comcast.net:

> On 8/11/05 4:06 PM, in article --ednQNp-JVB...@comcast.com,
> "Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> If you wish, as far as I am concerned almost all of them are equally
>> incompetent and useless - oh bring back the days of Conrad L. Osborne,
>> Will Crutchfield and David Hamilton - now they could write about
>> musical performances and the current crop don't deserve to shine their
>> shoes Richard
>
> I wish Fanfare could bring back Vince Alfano.

Vinnie is, in fact, my favorite Fanfare reviewer of all time. It tore out
my heart to read that he had died.

Thomas Muething

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Aug 12, 2005, 7:54:34 AM8/12/05
to

There are stupider people than classical critics and/or academics.
Namely, people who ask who is the stupidest classical critic and/or
academic.

Thomas

Tom Deacon

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Aug 12, 2005, 8:18:46 AM8/12/05
to


On 8/12/05 7:54 AM, in article 42fc8...@news.arcor-ip.de, "Thomas
Muething" <tmuetBUGGER-OF...@t-online.de> wrote:

And who fancy themselves as "critics".

TD

Dana Hill

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Aug 12, 2005, 9:08:27 AM8/12/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>

Thanks. It's good to know that so much of the music I admire comes not from
"great", but merely "famous" composers.

--

Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
Photography: www.danajohnhill.com
Personal: www.danajohnhill.org

sidoze

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Aug 12, 2005, 9:24:38 AM8/12/05
to
> Thanks. It's good to know that so much of the music I admire comes not from
> "great", but merely "famous" composers.
>
> --
>
> Dana Hill

You have to read his essay about what makes a great composer before you
can fully realise what an idiot he is.

John Harrington

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Aug 12, 2005, 9:38:08 AM8/12/05
to

Joan of Arc and Boudicca might have moonlighted as whores. That
doesn't make prostitution noble.


J

david...@aol.com

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Aug 12, 2005, 12:22:10 PM8/12/05
to

I said:

> Ah, how debased the concept of "the critic" has become. Coleridge was
> a critic. Oscar Wilde was a critic. These knuckleheads are reviewers.

And Mr. Harrington sagely remarked:

>Joan of Arc and Boudicca might have moonlighted as whores. That doesn't make prostitution noble.

Where do you stand on Kant's Critique of Pure Reason?

-david gable

Message has been deleted

mikep...@gmail.com

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Aug 12, 2005, 6:10:47 PM8/12/05
to
Wow. Oh my god, wow. He really, REALLY is.

Wow.

Dan Koren

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Aug 12, 2005, 7:49:01 PM8/12/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>

This guy writes at barely grade school level.


dk


Dan Koren

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Aug 12, 2005, 7:49:49 PM8/12/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853078.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>> Thanks. It's good to know that so much of the music I admire comes not
>> from
>> "great", but merely "famous" composers.
>
> You have to read his essay about what
> makes a great composer before you can
> fully realise what an idiot he is.
>


No, you don't have to read the full essay.

Just the first sentence.

dk


Tom Deacon

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Aug 12, 2005, 9:48:50 PM8/12/05
to


On 8/12/05 7:49 PM, in article 42fd356d$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
<dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:

That should make it easy for you to understand, no?

TD

Dan Koren

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Aug 12, 2005, 10:23:09 PM8/12/05
to
"Tom Deacon" <non...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BF22C9C2.7BF2%non...@yahoo.com...


Not at all.

I'm not that smart.

dk


Dan Koren

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Aug 12, 2005, 10:44:44 PM8/12/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123789072....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm
>

By Wright's rule #9, Bruckner, Mahler
and Wagner were not great composers ;-)

dk

Tom Deacon

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Aug 13, 2005, 6:53:27 AM8/13/05
to


On 8/12/05 10:44 PM, in article 42fd5e9c$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
<dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Opinions always vary, as you know full well.

I still haven't found out how Sidoze(sic!) knew that he had had his
testicles removed.

Could he have been speaking metaphorically?

Not possible. A pedestrian mind.

TD

Josep Vilanova

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Aug 13, 2005, 9:28:05 AM8/13/05
to
It's not only that he writes at a school level. There is something else in
his writing. He may well be autistic. That writing is too unstable to be
only bad. He can talk in one sentence about something outlandish, like when
he mentions Chopin being treated of constipation, and then suddenly move to
something completely unrelated. Of course, people with autistic spectrum
disorders, like anyone else, have the right to write about whatever they
want.. But to have it published? They may be a problem with quality control
in that MusicWeb website.


J


On 13/8/05 12:49 am, in article 42fd356d$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"

John Harrington

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Aug 13, 2005, 12:00:48 PM8/13/05
to
Tom Deacon wrote:
<snip>

> I still haven't found out how Sidoze(sic!) knew that he had had his
> testicles removed.

Yes, that was a terribly insensitive comment to make in a group in
which you post.


J

John Harrington

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Aug 13, 2005, 12:04:07 PM8/13/05
to
Dan Koren wrote:
<snip>

> I'm not that smart.

I know you're always trying new stuff, but self-effacingly admitting to
your stupidity is not going to make you look smart either.


J

Tom Deacon

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Aug 13, 2005, 12:12:52 PM8/13/05
to


On 8/13/05 9:28 AM, in article BF23B433.D99D%josepv...@hotmail.com,
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It's not only that he writes at a school level. There is something else in
> his writing. He may well be autistic. That writing is too unstable to be
> only bad. He can talk in one sentence about something outlandish, like when
> he mentions Chopin being treated of constipation, and then suddenly move to
> something completely unrelated. Of course, people with autistic spectrum
> disorders, like anyone else, have the right to write about whatever they
> want.. But to have it published? They may be a problem with quality control
> in that MusicWeb website.

That is as nothing compared to the quality control we have here.

TD

Tom Deacon

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Aug 13, 2005, 12:13:57 PM8/13/05
to


On 8/13/05 12:00 PM, in article
1123948848.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "John Harrington"
<bear...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not as insensitive as this post, which is also stupid.

TD

Andrys Basten

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Aug 13, 2005, 8:12:07 PM8/13/05
to
In article <1123790251.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
JohnGavin <dag...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>sidoze wrote:
>> >Richard Loeb wrote:
>> > Hard to answer -there are so many to choose from. Richard
>>
>> Indeed. May I take your vote for Dr. self Wrighteous then?
>
>His Chopin essay makes me think he's autistic, or has some sort of
>disorder. His written style lapses quite frequently in sort of
>emotional retrograde. He'll sound fairly intelligent in one sentence,
>then he falls into a sort of 3rd grade show-and-tell narrative. When
>his essay draws conclusions from historical evidence he sounds
>stunningly immature for a man his age (judging from the photo). The
>whole thing is entertaining on one hand, and disturbing on the other.

For others:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Dec02/Chopin_Wright.htm

It was sort of a shocking read, mainly for the atrocious writing
and mindset. (Not for what he considered "dirty"...)

But, you describe it well. And you're generous while doing so.

- A
--
http://www.andrys.com

Andrys Basten

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Aug 13, 2005, 8:15:12 PM8/13/05
to
In article <1123794413.5...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
SG <SGG...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I read the Chopin article. It's hilarious rather than angering. Tons of
>involuntary humour. It says next to nothing about Chopin and more than
>one needs to know about the author.
>
>Well, at least I heard of somebody today who sincerely thinks
>Kalkbrenner was a genius while Chopin wasn't.
>
>regards,
>SG

And he lets us know that despite his low opinion of
Chopin's composing abilities, there'll always be pieces
he will play. Gosh. What a seal of approval.

Andrys Basten

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Aug 13, 2005, 8:25:55 PM8/13/05
to


And then there's this illuminating insight:

"If we compare Bach with Stravinsky it has to be said that
Stravinsky was both far more original and versatile.
For example, Bach wrote no opera. Stravinsky did."

And the concept of "professional senior musicians"
to back up his thoughts is intriguing.

Margaret Mikulska

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Aug 13, 2005, 8:31:09 PM8/13/05
to

sidoze wrote:

> My vote goes for Musicweb's very own Dr. David C.F. Wright. Just read
> some of his articles, like the one about Chopin. Talk about a eunuch.
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/wright/index.htm

It's a tie between D. Wright and David Hurwitz; Ray Tuttle comes close,
unless he improved recently.

-MM

Andrys Basten

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Aug 13, 2005, 8:48:00 PM8/13/05
to
In article <1123979469....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,


Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer
while D. Wright is an atrocious one.

Message has been deleted

Richard Loeb

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Aug 14, 2005, 12:02:30 AM8/14/05
to
"Andrys Basten" <and...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ddm4bv$qo$1...@reader2.panix.com...
Yes Hurwitz is a good writer so its easier to see a lot of the nonsense he
writes Richard

>


John Harrington

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Aug 14, 2005, 12:40:29 AM8/14/05
to

And for yet another opinion: Hurwitz is a mediocrity as a writer, an
idiot as a critic, and a failure as a human being.


J

SG

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Aug 14, 2005, 1:22:17 AM8/14/05
to

Andrys:

"Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer while D.
Wright is an atrocious one."

True. When a pathetically comical failure proclaims David a failure,
that's a good sign. I hope David is in better health now and will
contribute again soon. At least he was somebody worthy of being argued
with, however strongly.

regards,
SG

Nick Sun

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Aug 14, 2005, 1:51:29 AM8/14/05
to
If memory serves, David Wright used to post here too under DW. I guess
either his ego or ours has forced him departing. Now, my question is,
if we take out his personal comment on Chopin, how much portion of his
description in that Chopin article is forged, or untrue. Anybody?

Nick

Raymond Hall

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Aug 14, 2005, 2:13:20 AM8/14/05
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"John Harrington" <bear...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123994429.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...


DH does what a good critic should do. Explain the music, the performance,
with comparisons, and there are few better. Maybe some, or many, are more
eloquent and poetic, but DH hits the button every time.

As for being a successful human being, I don't see too many examples in this
group, as if you would be able to tell anyway.

Ray H
Taree


Thomas Wood

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Aug 14, 2005, 2:26:45 AM8/14/05
to
Oh, easy. B. H. Haggin (1900-1987). He wrote many of the outright, plain
STUPID things I've ever read about music.

Tom Wood


Allen

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Aug 14, 2005, 8:43:31 AM8/14/05
to

Margaret Mikulska wrote:

Sorry to disagree, but I have found Raymond Tuttle's Fanfare reviews to
be quite helpful. Does anyone recall his postings here several years
ago. Incidentally, I want to offer a word of praise for another Fanfare
reviewer--Robert Kirzinger; this, of course, means that he likes many of
the same contemporary composers that I like.
Allen

Tom Deacon

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Aug 14, 2005, 9:26:32 AM8/14/05
to


On 8/13/05 8:31 PM, in article
1123979469....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Margaret Mikulska"
<musik...@gmail.com> wrote:

Careful.

You might attract DH back here to defend his "honour".

TD

Tom Deacon

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Aug 14, 2005, 9:30:57 AM8/14/05
to


On 8/14/05 1:22 AM, in article
1123996936....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "SG"
<SGG...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Andrys:
>
> "Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer while D.
> Wright is an atrocious one."
>
> True. When a pathetically comical failure proclaims David a failure,
> that's a good sign. I hope David is in better health now and will
> contribute again soon.

If I were Tepper, I would wish DH continued ill health. I am not, so I do
hope that he is feeling better.

But I also would hope that he could learn to trust the facts instead of what
he gleans from the industry mavens he associates with. His "take" on the
current state of the classical record business is the industry "take", and
that is not only self-serving, it is plain wrong.

Perhaps his improved health will reach his brain, allowing him to gain some
independence of thought.

TD

John Harrington

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Aug 14, 2005, 9:50:29 AM8/14/05
to
Thomas Wood wrote:
> Oh, easy. B. H. Haggin (1900-1987). He wrote many of the outright, plain
> STUPID things I've ever read about music.

I hate picking a "stupidest" critic. It's a little like picking a
"stupidest" game show host, but I have to second this, if significance
and impact are to be considered. The likes of Vroon, Wright, Hurwitz,
et al. will go down in history as failing to go down in history, but
Haggin seems to have some staying power, and that alone qualifies him
for urgent ridicule.


J

Tom Deacon

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Aug 14, 2005, 9:37:16 AM8/14/05
to


On 8/13/05 8:48 PM, in article ddm4bv$qo$1...@reader2.panix.com, "Andrys
Basten" <and...@panix.com> wrote:


> Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer
> while D. Wright is an atrocious one.

What do you think makes him a "good writer"?

Just curious.

You see, I have yet to detect anything "good" about his writing.

Lengthy, yes. Verbose, yes. Dense, yes.

But not good.

Good writers have clear ideas and use clear language to express those ideas.

I really don't fancy getting into the clouded, murky mind of someone who is
probably on the wrong track to begin with but who spends all his time
counting the rail ties rather than observing the scenery.

No, Andrys. Not a "good" writer.

TD

SG

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Aug 14, 2005, 1:28:09 PM8/14/05
to
Andrys:

"Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer while D.
Wright is an atrocious one."

You know, opinions differ on what constitutes a good writer. Probably
you noticed that D. Wright actually has an admirer in this ng. Some
kind of specious affinity, probably. The great spirits resonate with
each other.

What's funny is how writers mediocre at best believe that their image
of what constitutes good writing is gospel letter. Dave Hurwitz would
allegedly be verbose. Why? Because his mind is complex enough not to
habitually think in two-three words sentences, which represents some
kindergarten concept of clarity.

You understand. My point.

Or not. Do you?

"Clarity" above all.

My attention span?

Easily challenged.

Don't mess it.

My brain hurts. You are mean.

Were you saying?... I forgot.

I forget. Especially these days.

What? I was right?

I usually am. I love myself. And my English.

Writing? I am the best. I love myself. Said that already? Worth
repeating.

I love myself. Hearing myself speak. Or write. Think, on Christmas.
Whatever.

Etc. etc. etc.

regards,
SG

Matthew B. Tepper

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Aug 14, 2005, 1:55:14 PM8/14/05
to
"SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:1123996936....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I still say André Tubeuf, with his pretentious and inane drivel.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Hey spammers, look what happened to Vardan Kushnir. You're next!

Tom Deacon

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Aug 14, 2005, 1:42:36 PM8/14/05
to


On 8/14/05 1:28 PM, in article
1124040489.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "SG"
<SGG...@gmail.com> wrote:


> "Clarity" above all.
>
> My attention span?
>
> Easily challenged.
>
> Don't mess it.
>
> My brain hurts. You are mean.
>
> Were you saying?... I forgot.
>
> I forget. Especially these days.
>
> What? I was right?
>
> I usually am. I love myself. And my English.
>
> Writing? I am the best. I love myself. Said that already? Worth
> repeating.
>
> I love myself. Hearing myself speak. Or write. Think, on Christmas.
> Whatever.

Much better.

Now, if only Golescu would think his musical thoughts in this fashion they
would make sense. As for the political ones, well, we can just do without
those anyway.

TD

Tom Deacon

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Aug 14, 2005, 2:39:14 PM8/14/05
to


On 8/14/05 1:55 PM, in article Xns96B26F16C36...@207.69.189.191,


"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy?@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "SG" <SGG...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:1123996936....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> Andrys:
>>
>> "Whether or not you like David Hurwitz, he's a good writer while D.
>> Wright is an atrocious one."
>>
>> True. When a pathetically comical failure proclaims David a failure,
>> that's a good sign. I hope David is in better health now and will
>> contribute again soon. At least he was somebody worthy of being argued
>> with, however strongly.
>
> I still say André Tubeuf, with his pretentious and inane drivel.

You have to read Tubeuf in the original French. Even there it takes some
swallowing, as it is, like a lot of French prose, highly abstract. In
English translation it is utter jibberish, of course.

TD

Dana Hill

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Aug 15, 2005, 1:57:55 PM8/15/05
to
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123853078.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Thanks. It's good to know that so much of the music I admire comes not
>> from
>> "great", but merely "famous" composers.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dana Hill

>
> You have to read his essay about what makes a great composer before you
> can fully realise what an idiot he is.
>

I did. That's why I posted what I did. It's ridiculous.

--

Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
Photography: www.danajohnhill.com
Personal: www.danajohnhill.org

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Nov 30, 2016, 8:00:30 PM11/30/16
to
I am amazed at the chutzpah of Dr David Wright using the language of a two bit street preacher who thinks his audience is dulalli. So composers have their scandals! As a history graduate I am familiar with scandals and conspiracy theories. As a professional musician (Deutsche=Straßenmusiker) of many years arranging poems of Rudyard Kipling to my own settings I see music as having educational and entertainment value in the tradition of Brecht. Has he, perchance, overlooked the fact that Britain is a multifaith, multiethnic society and his uncompromising theology might be regarded as distasteful to the followers of two other Abrahamic religions.
I believe in Karma, Reincarnation and Universal Compassion.
Maybe Dr Wright should show more sensitivity in his critical writings and less theology more appropriate in a secular era.
Alain De Ramsay.

bohemian....@gmail.com

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Dec 2, 2016, 7:56:45 PM12/2/16
to
I noticed in Dr Wright's "review" of Scriabin he went out of his way to make some highly biassed comments about Helena Blavatsky that could only have come from someone heavily conditioned into exoteric aka profane Christianity. As a natural mystic and Tarot Consultant of many years I find his comments distasteful in the extreme. Has he not realized why Profane Christianity has been declining for so long in the West? People are seeking spirituality and finding it outside the churches. I would recommend he read Bhante Dhammamatu "How to choose a religion", beyond-belief02.pdf or call up Einstein on religion for other viewpoints.
When answering the census question on religion I ticked the 3rd box.
Alain De Ramsay

christian....@gmail.com

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Dec 3, 2016, 5:07:56 AM12/3/16
to
Den fredag 12 augusti 2005 kl. 00:29:54 UTC+2 skrev mikep...@gmail.com:
> >From the Webern essay:
>
> "If you take the seven note of the major scale ( the eighth being a
> doubling of the first) and arranged them in every possible order to
> make a theme the law of mathematics makes it evident that soon you will
> run out of original themes."
>
> Ohhh, so that's why 12-tone music was invented. Because they ran out of
> diatonic themes! Duh.

He's got a point! If you stick to just the notes in the scale across two octaves and exclude note values longer than a half note and shorter than a 16th you have 550 million possible opening 5 note fragments, and about 100 billion themes per star in the observable universe for your average 20 note melody. With such agile star explorers like Mozart and Chopin around, what can you do but to turn to dark matter? ;)

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Dec 19, 2016, 6:27:25 PM12/19/16
to
I spotted some clangers dropped by Dr David C F Wright when he conflates biography with scandal. Does he have hangups about sex so common with fundamentalist christians?
Albert Einstein made the comment:"The religion of the future will be a lcosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description...If there is any religionvthat could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
I believe in Karma, Reincarnation and Universal Compassion and suggest that Dr Wright shows more sensitivity and objectivity and keep value judgments to himself in future. Respectfully submitted Alan.

Frank Berger

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Dec 19, 2016, 6:42:05 PM12/19/16
to
On 12/19/2016 6:27 PM, bohemian...@gmail.com wrote:
> I spotted some clangers dropped by Dr David C F Wright when he conflates biography with scandal. Does he have hangups about sex so common with fundamentalist christians?

Hangups? Never mind.

> Albert Einstein made the comment:"The religion of the future will be a lcosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description...If there is any religionvthat could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
> I believe in Karma, Reincarnation and Universal Compassion and suggest that Dr Wright shows more sensitivity and objectivity and keep value judgments to himself in future. Respectfully submitted Alan.
>

Norhing against it, but I haven't noticed Buddhism taking
over the world. Am i missing something?

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Dec 19, 2016, 7:21:48 PM12/19/16
to
Buddhism came west first with the Ashokan initiative in 3rd century BCE followed by the Kushan mission to Augustus Caesar 2, 000 years ago and the Dharma reached as far as Britain. The existence of a western Sangha was mentioned by Clement of Alexandria.
I have a BA(Hons) in history, am an experienced Tarot consultant and busk for a living, working on a novel. As a western Buddhist from experience I had a different slant on history and might explore this in a second degree.
Hope this explains the previous post.
Alan.

dk

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Dec 20, 2016, 5:01:06 PM12/20/16
to
On Monday, December 19, 2016 at 3:42:05 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Nothing against it, but I haven't noticed Buddhism
> taking over the world. Am I missing something?

Yes, HJ Lim!

dk

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Dec 22, 2016, 7:37:51 PM12/22/16
to
I guess you might have missed a lot but many people read a westernised view of the subject. As a western Buddhist I was aware of the connections going back to the period after Alexander the Great who turned down Chandragupta Maurya's offer to make him master of India following his defeat of Porus.
Chandragupta's grandson, half greek half indian Ashoka became a Buddhist following a war that sickened him and adopted trade, abolished the caste system, became, as H.G.Wells observed the World's first socialist ruler and sent missionaries to other lands including the greek kingdoms.
A second initiative was started by the Kushan ruler a contemporary of Augustus Caesar ca 10 BC suggesting a continuity over 3 centuries.
It would be interesting to continue searching for further evidence of contacts after 200 AD and the journeys of Rubruck and Marco Polo.
With 500 years there must have been some results from this cross cultural dialogue.

Lawrence Kart

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Dec 23, 2016, 12:18:00 AM12/23/16
to
He's certainly not the stupidest, but the most dangerous one probably is Richard Taruskin.

Larry Kart

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Dec 26, 2016, 7:30:17 PM12/26/16
to
I heard the following comment as an undergraduate in the late 70s from course advisor who was defrocked from the Methodist Church for an outspoken book. He remarked that the gospel attributed to St Mark was in parts a "lift" from Asvaghosha's Buddhacarita written a century earlier.
Add the following: A teacher born of a virgin mother of divine paternity, who taught in parables, healed the sick, raised the dead and walked on the waters of the Ganges part of a tradition predating the New Testament by some
600 years and it makes on wonder how much was a reworking of older source material.
Ca 393 CCC Emperor Theodosius the Great decreed that Christianity (Nicene version) was to be the sole legal religion of the empire leading to centuries of antijudaism, intolerance to other faiths and genocide in Europe and the Americas.
Linda Karen Dowson MMus has overlooked the fact that Christianity is a minority religion in the UK and under heavy criticism from several quarters not only atheists.

james.g...@gmail.com

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Dec 27, 2016, 10:43:12 AM12/27/16
to
On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 12:18:00 AM UTC-5, Lawrence Kart wrote:
> He's certainly not the stupidest, but the most dangerous one probably is Richard Taruskin.
>
> Larry Kart

How is he dangerous?

Lawrence Kart

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Dec 27, 2016, 2:11:46 PM12/27/16
to
Because he not only has IMO a lot of dubious notions about a whole lot of things -- about the need to suppress "anti-Semitic" elements in the texts of Bach's passions and other works of that era, about the flaws of the music of a good many contemporary or modern composers, etc. -- and he also can marshal all sorts of sophistic but very "scholarly" arguments to back up these notions, with the scholarly trimmings often being able to carry the day in some quarters. Thus, his dangerousness.

LK

meyers...@gmail.com

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Dec 30, 2016, 11:30:09 AM12/30/16
to
FWIW Alex Ross in the current New Yorker has a long article about Bach and the Passions and discusses the supposed anti-Semitic elements in the works

Lawrence Kart

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Dec 30, 2016, 3:45:03 PM12/30/16
to
Read the Ross piece. Meh. Among other things, very second hand -- in this respect not unlike a typical David Brooks column that leans on and/or treats like a whoopee cushion various sociological studies by others that all turn out to prove Brooks' point, only to have the authors of some of those studies complain that their work has been misrepresented by Brooks. In Ross' case, that last probably wouldn't be true because I really don't see him coming up with anything himself other than sappy platitudes, a la this ("This music can be more beautiful than anyone's, but it refuses to block out the world's ugliness") and his final two sentences: "Bach is no Byzantine deity gazing from the dome. He walks beside you in the night."

LK

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 1, 2017, 2:48:28 AM1/1/17
to
Would'nt Wright-Burke be more appropriate? Someone who condemns a composer on grounds of being a sinner must be scraping the barrel!

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 3, 2017, 8:49:06 PM1/3/17
to
Hello Frank. For about 8 centuries there was a two way traffic of ideas between east and west and this was cut by Theodosius the Great's edict making Christianity the sole legal religion of the Roman Empire ca 393 Common Calender Era.
Contact recommenced in Marco Polo's time when other creeds and cultures became known.
In the last two centuries beginning with the first translations of the Buddhist Sutras educated westerners disillusiined with Christianity sought answers in Buddhism. From 8, 000 in the early 1960s to 252, 000 at the last census the increase is over thirtyfold.

dk

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Jan 4, 2017, 1:18:19 AM1/4/17
to
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:49:06 PM UTC-8, bohemian...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello Frank. For about 8 centuries there was a two way traffic of
> ideas between east and west and this was cut by Theodosius the
> Great's edict making Christianity the sole legal religion of
> the Roman Empire ca 393 Common Calendar Era.
> Contact recommenced in Marco Polo's time when other creeds and
> cultures became known.
> In the last two centuries beginning with the first translations
> of the Buddhist Sutras educated westerners disillusioned with
> Christianity sought answers in Buddhism. From 8, 000 in the
> early 1960s to 252, 000 at the last census the increase is
> over thirtyfold.

Buddhism produces the best pianists! ;-)

dk

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 4, 2017, 6:57:36 PM1/4/17
to
I read Bourniquel's life of Chopin in the original french. Sorry David Wright you read too much into Chopin's relationship with Titus Woyciechowski. Polish men are more emotional in their letters and there was a revolution in 1830 with uncertainty regarding outcomes. Titus was in Warsaw in the thick of the conflict and Chopin was heading for Paris in transit to London.
This uncertain period was reflected in Chopin's change of career from concert pianist-composer to teacher-composer and pioneer of piano recitals in Paris salons plus promoting Pleyel pianos. He was travelling to and from spa centres in the German Confederation for health reasons. All in all a confusing life

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 4, 2017, 7:34:34 PM1/4/17
to
I read Bourniquel's "Chopin" in the original french bought in Luxembourg. Sorry David C F Wright you read too much into Chopin's relationship with Titus Woyciechiwsky. Chopin was escaping an explosive situation in Warsaw and naturally concerned about his friend. In addition his life was unsettled and he was experiencing a change in career direction from concert pianist-composer to fashionable piano teacher-composer and pioneering piano recitals at the Salon Pleyel in Paris where he met Georges Sand aka Aurore Dudevant who became his mistress.
Chopin was a pianist's composer and his music falls naturally under one's fingers hence his significance as a musical innovator.
Contrary to stereotyping Chopin enjoyed good health barring the winter at Valdemosa though the 24 Preludes owe their origin to that wet winter cooped up in otherwise gloomy accommodation.
Capable of several idioms notably the Polonaises, Mazurkas and Ballades of Polish or Lithuanian inspiration or the French inspired Waltzes, Scherzi and Impromptus.
Is it surprising he exerted a strong influence on compositional style even anticipating "impressionism" before Debussy?

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 5, 2017, 8:21:08 PM1/5/17
to
Hello John was reading your post on David C F Wright on Chopin full of incomsequentials! Fryderik F Chopin was a professional musician, composer and teacher unlike Dr Wright who was by turns teacher,lawyer, musician-composer and barking theologian with an obsession about sin and sex.
Unlike Dr Wright, Fryderik Chopin was a professional musician-composer and teacher instead of working in a legal firm, teaching and being a musician and composer. Who is this Linda Karen Dowson who rehashes his blurb and has little to say personally?
It seems Christianity is less acceptable today because it is no longer relevant to people's spiritual needs.
I believe in Karma, Reincarnation and Universal Compassion. A post on "choosing a religion" has it we are hard wired to accept a cultural connectionn. Well my hard wiring was different more Dharmic than Abrahamic! Or does Reincarnation explain something? Alan.

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Jan 25, 2017, 9:18:56 PM1/25/17
to
Hi Nick. It occurred to me that there is a passing resemblance to the Victorian writer Walter Horatio Pater who conflated biograpy with fiction of his own creation to create "imaginary portraits" like Vasari in the Renaissance only Dr Wright threw in a heavy measure of theology and fundamentalism which is past its sell by date just as the seventh Narnia chronicle will call for extensive reworking if it is to be filmed at all. Alan.

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Feb 8, 2017, 9:00:20 PM2/8/17
to
David C F Wright seems to have been spamming the internet with insulting comments on composers taking delight in creating an adverse commentary about their private lives. Conflating their lives with malicious gossip plus his views on sin and sexualitt they should be taken with a small siberian salt mine.
Ms Linda Karen Dowson adds a rehash along with his anonymous support group to make it sound more credible.
I listened to 4 Sea Interludes from Peter Grimes. His blanket dismissal of Britten's music is highly biassed. The Sea Interludes show originality of orchestration and tone colouring contrary to the Wright-Burke's biassed views.
As a musician, historian, artist and writer I feel he is short on objectivity.
Alain De Ramsay.

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Mar 3, 2017, 8:40:56 PM3/3/17
to
I spotted a convoluted blog from Linda Karen Dowson and David C F Wright complaining about the way they have been blasted over their comments on composers' life stories. If they keep conflating biography with gossip is it surprising they will be greeted with a flak barrage?
Their comments read like a blend of the tabloid press and two bit street evangelists in the North with a fair measure of political incorrectness thrown in.
Add the outdated dogmas of the lazy person's religion should the scandalmongering not have its impact and you end up with some highly inflammatory material hence the response.

bohemian...@gmail.com

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Mar 6, 2017, 7:52:54 PM3/6/17
to
One begins to wonder if David C F Wright is part hydra the way he surfaces on so many websites. Chopin's relationship with friend Titus has been tsken out of context and inflated beyond recognition. Chopin was in no way gay.
Bourniquel's biography speaks of someone who longed for a wife. He was not into one night stands. Neither was he antisemitic.
Maybe Dr Wright Burke would do well to drop the tabloid scandalmongering and stick to the objective which is what biographies are made of.

oxfor...@gmail.com

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Nov 7, 2017, 9:52:46 AM11/7/17
to
David C F Wright is of course entitled to his opinion that Schubert, Chopin, Elgar,and Britten were all poor composers.
Dr Wright has been a prolific composer whose music lies in almost total obscurity whilst the composers he denigrates are constantly being performed and recorded by leading performers and orchestras, a fact which he seems to overlook.
It is said that people vote with their feet, in this case it is with their ears.

jfba...@gmail.com

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Nov 9, 2017, 9:58:27 AM11/9/17
to
Yes- D. Wright- worst.

Bob Harper

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Nov 10, 2017, 7:06:34 PM11/10/17
to
On 11/7/17 6:52 AM, oxfor...@gmail.com wrote:
(snip)
>
> David C F Wright is of course entitled to his opinion that Schubert, Chopin, Elgar,and Britten were all poor composers.
> Dr Wright has been a prolific composer whose music lies in almost total obscurity whilst the composers he denigrates are constantly being performed and recorded by leading performers and orchestras, a fact which he seems to overlook.
> It is said that people vote with their feet, in this case it is with their ears.
>

I found a compendium of Dr. Wright's articles about composers on his
website. I must say, if his music is as pedestrian as his prose, it must
be unlistenable.

Bob Harper
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