Does a modern recording of Weingartner's version of Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
Juan I. Cahis
Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Johannes Roehl
> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
>> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
>> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
> eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
> Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
The Aufforderung is included (with Berlioz' version and Ouvertures) on a
claves CD, cond. by Lawrence Foster.
But I'd like the Hammerklavier orchestration in modern sound! Although
it's a crazy piece and I am not sure if it works at all. It's probably
not an accident that it hasn't been recorded since Weingartner did it
himself. Compare the orchestrations of Brahms, Bach etc. by Schönberg or
Stokowski!
Johannes
Sam
<oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in
>news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
>> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
>> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
>Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
>eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
>Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
The Weber has had modern recordings and is at least a good a version
as the better known Berlioz. I have never heard of the Bizet until
now. I have found the Hammerklavier orchestration almost
unlistenable; speaking of trying to fit a square peg into a round
hole. Beethoven did a good orchestral transcription of the Funeral
March from his early A flat sonata. I don't know of any other
reasonable transcriptions of Beethoven piano music; well maybe
Stokowski's first movement of the Moonlight is OK.
Kerrison
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:43:19 -0600, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>
> <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >following letters to be typed in
> >news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
> >> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> >> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> >Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
> >eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
> >Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
>
> The Weber has had modern recordings and is at least a good a version
> as the better known Berlioz. I have never heard of the Bizet until
> now. I have found the Hammerklavier orchestration almost
> unlistenable; speaking of trying to fit a square peg into a round
> hole. Beethoven did a good orchestral transcription of the Funeral
> March from his early A flat sonata. I don't know of any other
> reasonable transcriptions of Beethoven piano music; well maybe
> Stokowski's first movement of the Moonlight is OK.
Heinrich Lindlar's notes to a Eurodisc LP of Tchaikovsky's "The
Seasons," in Alexander Gauk's orchestration, states that "such
adaptions will sometimes show an experimental character, like
Bruckner's orchestration of Beethoven's 'Pathetique' Sonata ..." ...
Has anyone ever heard this (or even of it)?
Russ (not Martha)
> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBAS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed innews:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
> > Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> > of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
> eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
> Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
>
Enthusiastically seconded.
We should be peppering someone to give serious consideration to
releasing the above combination of orchestral transcriptions by FW.
But I don't know how much good it would do to write to cpo as such.
Can someone come up with a producer's name from one of the cpo
Weingartner CD issues? Then contact info could probably easily be
dug up (assuming it's not printed on the CD papers) and the campaign
could begin in earnest!
Russ (not Martha)
largo_57
wrote:
>
> We should be peppering someone to give serious consideration to
> releasing the above combination of orchestral transcriptions by FW.
> But I don't know how much good it would do to write to cpo as such.
> Can someone come up with a producer's name from one of the cpo
> Weingartner CD issues? Then contact info could probably easily be
> dug up (assuming it's not printed on the CD papers) and the campaign
> could begin in earnest!
>
> Russ (not Martha)
Maybe this guy:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/June07/Schmilgun.htm
cpo – classic production osnabrück
Lübecker Straße 9
D-49124 Georgsmarienhütte
Tel. 05401 851-0
Fax: 05401 851-116
E-Mail: c...@jpc.de
- Bryan
Kip Williams
> We should be peppering someone to give serious consideration to
> releasing the above combination of orchestral transcriptions by FW.
> But I don't know how much good it would do to write to cpo as such.
> Can someone come up with a producer's name from one of the cpo
> Weingartner CD issues? Then contact info could probably easily be
> dug up (assuming it's not printed on the CD papers) and the campaign
> could begin in earnest!
I'm lukewarm about orchestral transcriptions, but maybe what you should
do is interest a conductor in them. It sounds like a program of
Weingartner versions would make a balanced ticket, and if they went over
well, the recording studio could be the next stop (or have someone make
a nice recording of the concert).
If the material is well done, I would think a conductor might be happy
to try and be the first to record it in modern media, and make it his or
her own, so to speak.
Kip W
Dontait...@aol.com
wrote:
> Dear friends:
>
> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> Thanks
> Juan I. Cahis
> Santiago de Chile (South America)
This probably doesn't qualify as modern, but there was an LP of it:
Urania URLP 7089, credited to the "Bavarian Symphony Orchestra"
conducted by Kurt Graunke. It was issued in 1953. It's been years
since I have played it and I'm temporarily unable to play LPs or 78s,
so I have to rely upon memory about the performance. I remember
thinking it poor. It sounded like a first run-through, with the
orchestra picking its way from note to note. Directionless.
I can't avoid feeling that a good performance in modern sound might
be the only way one could judge the effectiveness of Weingartner's
orchestration. His own circa 1930 recording with the old RPO is
hobbled by some poor playing and recorded sound that is inferior for
its time. So let's hope that suggestions by other posters lead to a
new recording.
Don Tait
Recovered Reviewer
> Dear friends:
>
> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> Urania URLP 7089, credited to the "Bavarian Symphony
> Orchestra" conducted by Kurt Graunke. It was issued in 1953.
> It's been years since I have played it and I'm temporarily unable
> to play LPs or 78s, so I have to rely upon memory about the
> performance. I remember thinking it poor. It sounded like a first
> run-through, with the orchestra picking its way from note to note.
Got it in one try, Don! The performance was a hyena's breakfast, but then I
think the transcription is not effective either. I must have ditched that
Urania mono LP before it actually went out of print.
I think that a modern recording of this perverse oddity properly
ought to be assigned a rather low priority in the scheme of things
discographical.
--
John Wiser
Jicotea Used Books
Howells NY 10932 0136 USA
cee...@gmail.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/ceeclef
Paige Turner
wrote:
> <Dontaitchic...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 19, 4:17 am, Juan I. Cahis
> wrote:
>
> > Dear friends:
>
> > Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> > of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> > This probably doesn't qualify as modern, but there was an LP of it:
> > Urania URLP 7089, credited to the "Bavarian Symphony
> > Orchestra" conducted by Kurt Graunke. It was issued in 1953.
> > It's been years since I have played it and I'm temporarily unable
> > to play LPs or 78s, so I have to rely upon memory about the
> > performance. I remember thinking it poor. It sounded like a first
> > run-through, with the orchestra picking its way from note to note.
> > Directionless. [snip]
>
> Got it in one try, Don! The performance was a hyena's breakfast, but then I
> think the transcription is not effective either. I must have ditched that
> Urania mono LP before it actually went out of print.
> I think that a modern recording of this perverse oddity properly
> ought to be assigned a rather low priority in the scheme of things
> discographical.
> --
I agree. Consider the paucity of recordings of excellent music by
people like Peter Mennin, Tadeusz Baird, etc. For an American
orchestra to worry about a Weingartner arrangement while neglecting
the homegrown Mennin is a scandal. There could be other names, of
course. I don't know of any other country that so neglects its own
composers. They'll play anything provided the guy's not from here.
Best,
pt
thoren...@yahoo.com
> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBAS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed innews:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
> > Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
> > of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
> Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
> eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
> Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My main music page ---http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
I have a bunch of 40s/early 50s Coulmbia test pressings on both LP
and 78.I have the Weingartner "Hammerklavier" among these,but still no
way to upload them :(
Roger
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:3a713cb6-23ce-47be-89e3-
30f3a9...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> I have a bunch of 40s/early 50s Coulmbia test pressings on both LP
> and 78.I have the Weingartner "Hammerklavier" among these,but still no
> way to upload them :(
It's been issued by Pearl as a single CD, and is of course, part of the
Weingartner Edition on Shinseido EMI.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
weary flake
> "thoren...@yahoo.com" <thoren...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:3a713cb6-23ce-47be-89e3-
> 30f3a9...@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I have a bunch of 40s/early 50s Coulmbia test pressings on both LP
> > and 78.I have the Weingartner "Hammerklavier" among these,but still no
> > way to upload them :(
>
> It's been issued by Pearl as a single CD, and is of course, part of the
> Weingartner Edition on Shinseido EMI.
It's also on a Naxos cd and a Memories 7 cd set.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Symphony-Sonata-Hammerklavier-Weingartner/dp/B0002C9UFM/
Juan I. Cahis
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in
>news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>
>> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
>> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>
>Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
>eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
>Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
And Weingartner's performing version of Schubert Seventh Symphony
D.729, of course.
Juan I. Cahis
Kerrison <kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Bruckner expert Alan Crawford Howie gave me this answer:
"This was one of the exercises Bruckner had to do when he was studying
with Kitzler. It was undertaken in September-October 1862."
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Dear Matthew & friends:
>
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused
>> the following letters to be typed in
>> news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
>>> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>>
>> Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
>> eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
>> Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
>
> And Weingartner's performing version of Schubert Seventh Symphony
> D.729, of course.
Which at least has been recorded in stereo, by Heinz Rögner and the Berlin
RSO, last available on a Berlin Classics CD that I've never seen. I far
prefer this to Brian Newbould's more timid mere orchestration of the
sketches, because Weingartner expands out the harmonies and orchestration.
Russ (not Martha)
> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchSINBAS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
> > D.729, of course.
>
> Which at least has been recorded in stereo, by Heinz Rögner and the Berlin
> RSO, last available on a Berlin Classics CD that I've never seen. I far
> prefer this to Brian Newbould's more timid mere orchestration of the
> sketches, because Weingartner expands out the harmonies and orchestration.
>
In have that one on Japanese Deutsche Schallplatten 32TC-115 which I
believe came out before the work was issued by Berlin Classics. I
also prefer this to the skinny Newbould version which sounds exactly
like what it is, an orchestration of the sketch as such.
Dontait...@aol.com
> "Matthew�B.�Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > "thorenstd...@yahoo.com" <thorenstd...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the
> > following letters to be typed in news:3a713cb6-23ce-47be-89e3-
>
> > > I have a bunch of �40s/early 50s Coulmbia test pressings on both LP
> > > and 78.I have the Weingartner "Hammerklavier" among these,but still no
> > > way to upload them :(
>
> > It's been issued by Pearl as a single CD, and is of course, part of the
> > Weingartner Edition on Shinseido EMI.
>
> It's also on a Naxos cd and a Memories 7 cd set.
>
>
> http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2633676
The Naxos CD, particularly, is an excellent transfer. As good as my
78s, at least, and superior to the early 1950s Columbia LP.
Don Tait
Juan I. Cahis
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in
>news:hs9tp4t6opc4b5vhj...@4ax.com:
>
>> Dear Matthew & friends:
>>
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Juan I. Cahis <jiclbchS...@attglobal.net> appears to have caused
>>> the following letters to be typed in
>>> news:h7cqp41a2ht1gg09b...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> Does a modern recording (preferable stereo) of Weingartner's version
>>>> of Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata exists?
>>>
>>> Not that I'm aware, but I'm hoping that cpo's Weingartner series will
>>> eventually include this, as well as his versions of Bizet's "Variations
>>> Chromatiques" and Weber's "Aufforderung Zum Tanz."
>>
>> And Weingartner's performing version of Schubert Seventh Symphony
>> D.729, of course.
>
>Which at least has been recorded in stereo, by Heinz Rögner and the Berlin
>RSO, last available on a Berlin Classics CD that I've never seen. I far
>prefer this to Brian Newbould's more timid mere orchestration of the
>sketches, because Weingartner expands out the harmonies and orchestration.
The problematic issues here are the many cuts that Weingartner does in
the score, specially in the Finale.
El Klauso
record the Weingartner orchestration of Weber's "Invitation to the
Dance." I have an old Russian LP of it in fairly good shape - Not
exactly at the Berlioz level, but convincing in its own way.
Kerrison
There was a splendid version of the Berlioz-Weingartner arrangement,
recorded in EMI's answer to "Phase 4 Stereo," namely "Studio 2
Stereo," in which the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra was conducted by
Walter Susskind. I find it far more imaginative than the Berlioz
version, not least in the way the major themes are combined in
counterpoint. The EMI 'Encore' CD reissue on which it can be found is
entitled "The Most Famous Ballets" (CDE 5 68127 2).
Kerrison
Correction! .. I should have typed "Weber-Weingartner."