Bartok quartets - recommended versions

[Andy Evans]

What are the really good Bartok quartet versions currently available? Both full sets and individual quartets.

The Juilliard 1963 version is self-recommending, but what about these:

- Hungarian DG
- Tokyo DG
- Tatrai Hungaraton
- Talich Collins Classics
- Ramor Denon
- Bartok Canyon Classics (rare)
- Takacs Decca
- Vegh Teldec 70s
- Keller Apex

and others.....

[howie...@btinternet.com]

I don't believe the Juilliard 1963 is self recommending - their 1950 recording is though.

I'm afraid I don't know the first two quartets very well, but one which recently really impressed me in 4 and 5 was Zehetmair.

[Andy Evans]

I haven't listened much to the Juilliards, and the Zehetmair not at all. I initially liked the Tokyo on DG but started to prefer the Hungarian. This still intrigues me because of the wealth of detail in the textures. It's lyrical but the voices are very blended, so there is less of a sense of architecture that one gets when certain strands stand out. It's kind of homogenous - less drama but a good deal of subtlety. So I'll probably keep coming back to it on occasions. I then found the Ramor quite interesting - another hungarian quartet. The most interesting so far has been the Tatrai to the point that I ordered it online at more than I wanted to pay. It's very lyrical, quite dark, and there's something "right" about the playing that just lets the music come through. I found myself listening to the 5th quartet four times in a row on Spotify, and preferring it to a few other versions. So I concluded that something about it was grabbing my emotions. For the record I'm moved by lyrical versions, and not speeds that are too fast to let the music breathe. I think several versions are overly dramatic and too fast and I think it robs the music of soul. Listen to the Tatrai and the soul is there. So that's my findings to date. Haven't heard Parkanyi and several others but have heard bits of Vegh, Emerson, Talich, Keller, New Hungarian, Takacs. Not uninteresting versions.

[richard...@gmail.com]

Can't tell you about the Takacs on Decca, but live they were wonderful.
Vegh and Tatrai are safe bets but I don't know any of the others you list.

[Bozo]

>On Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:49:22 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:

I have only the Emerson's set. Here is the 1988 Gramophone review :

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1636

Right now you can hear the youngish Modigliani Quartet play the 2nd Bartok Quartet live in France :

http://tinyurl.com/oauokty

[John Wiser]

"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ca5ae48-0052-45ce...@googlegroups.com...

> What are the really good Bartok quartet versions currently available? Both full sets and
> individual quartets.
>

> The Juilliard 1963 version is self-recommending, [snip]
I suppose, but 1950 Juilliard set remains unexcelled, I think.
West Hill has it very reasonably priced:
Tatrai Hungaroton: I looked no further for a stereo set. Others heard
(Takacs, Keller, Hungarian, Tokyo) seem no more than afterthoughts...
and the Emersons aren't even that.
There's also a trained bear act called the Lindsay Quartet.
Somebody here is bound to tout them off to you. Don't bite.

jdw

[Ed Presson]

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
news:9ca5ae48-0052-45ce...@googlegroups.com...

I like (and have retained on my shelf) these:
Emerson DG
Tokyo RCA
Takacs Decca

Sorry, I cannot remember those I've recycled.

Ed

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Oh I forgot to mention, there's an outstanding early recording of the 6th by the Alexander Quartet, the one coupled with the Ravel Quartet rather than the one from their complete Bartok set.

Here's the Ebène Quartet playing th 4th
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_XNfKk-Qbs

Does anyone like the way Cuarteto Casals play the 4th?

[MELMOTH]

Ce cher mammifère du nom de Andy Evans nous susurrait, le samedi
30/08/2014, dans nos oreilles grandes ouvertes mais un peu sales tout
de même, et dans le message
<9ca5ae48-0052-45ce...@googlegroups.com>, les doux
mélismes suivants :

> and others.....

*Tokyo*...*Takacs*...*Parrenin*...*Emerson*...

--
Car avec beaucoup de science, il y a beaucoup de chagrin ; et celui qui
accroît sa science accroît sa douleur.
[Ecclésiaste, 1-18]
MELMOTH - souffrant

[Andy Evans]

The Alexander are good in 6 as you say. Thanks for that - listening on Spotify. I didn't like the Ebene.

The Casals? They're neat and clean but I think you have to go further than this in Bartok. I'm not getting the depths here. They play the music like a succession of micro events with slight pauses in between them, and that doesn't really make sense. In fact it quickly gets tiresome. If you turn to the Hungarian, for instance, the music is much more joined up - you can hear the musical thread going through it. I think this is particularly important in the first movement of 4 which should sustain its musical argument and suspense right through. In fact the architecture is particularly important in the whole of the 4th quartet, which is carefully and methodically constructed.

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 30.08.2014 18:10, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
> I don't believe the Juilliard 1963 is self recommending

What is a self recommending recording? One with a spoken recommendation
text at the beginning?
Or at the end?

Or in between movements?

What a silly idea.
--
Lionel Tacchini

[Herman]

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:00:06 AM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini wrote:
> On 30.08.2014 18:10, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
>
> > I don't believe the Juilliard 1963 is self recommending
>
>
>
> What is a self recommending recording?

It probably means that a lot of people in the past have said this recording was the very best, people start imprinting on it, herd behaviour kicks in, and thus a reputation is perpetuated.

You can make quite a list of such self-recommending recordings.

[Andy Evans]

> What is a self recommending recording? One with a spoken recommendation text at the beginning?
> Or at the end? Or in between movements?
> What a silly idea.

> Lionel Tacchini

Yes - in retrospect I admit it's a very silly idea. Thanks for that.

I've been trying to look into Gabor Takacs-Nagy's contribution to these quartets. He founded the Takacs quartet in 1975 and I believe they recorded an initial set for Hungaroton. But if the Decca set is 1998 then the first violin was Dusinberre and the violist was Tapping - two hungarians and two english players. Gabor Takacs-Nagy then re-formed his quartet as the Mikrokosmos in 1998 with three hungarian musicians, and they recorded a set.

I'm not that interested in the Decca recording but I'd like to hear the original Hungaroton - not sure about the availability of that one. I'm listening to the Mikrokosmos on Spotify. I don't know if it displaces the Hungarian or Tatrai which I'm currently liking most. But it sounds pretty good.

I've been trying and failing to really like any of the Juilliards or the Tokyos. I mean - there are plenty of good things in them but somehow they're just a fraction outside the music where the Hungarians and the Tatrai are inside it. A bit hard to explain and I'm sure others have different views.

[Andy Evans]

> I'm not that interested in the Decca recording but I'd like to hear the original Hungaroton - not sure about the availability of that one. I'm listening to the Mikrokosmos on Spotify. I don't know if it displaces the Hungarian or Tatrai which I'm currently liking most. But it sounds pretty good.

The original Takacs on Hungaroton is on Spotify so I listened a bit. I find both the playing and recording rougher than the later Mikrokosmos, so I don't think it's competitive. I don't think Gabor Takacs-Nagy is quite a Szekely but his interpretation seems to have matured over the years. The Mikrokosmos is certainly much better played and recorded.

[Lionel Tacchini]

So that's a recording known by people who need no recommendation, right?

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Andy Evans]

> So that's a recording known by people who need no recommendation, right?

> Lionel Tacchini

It gets sillier the more you deconstruct it. But a lot of our expressions play around with idea of humanising objects.

For example the French "C'est dans la nature des choses" - "it is in the nature of things".

Or to take it further, the construct of Resistentialism - "les choses sont contre nous".

And many languages use the passive instead of the active e.g. Norwegian "doren ma lokkes" - "the door must be closed" rather then "please close the door".

[howie...@btinternet.com]

The one that always makes me laugh is the French middle voice, ce vin se boit frais.

I wonder if you'll agree with me that the earlier 6 from the Alexander is much better than the late one in their complete set. I also didn't care at all for their 4.

There's a whole mess of Hungarian Quartet recordings I intend to sort out some time, different lineups, different versions. There's something called "The New Hungarian Quartet" who recorded for Vox - I thought the were pretty amazing in 4. In 6, I remember thinking that Keller was very sad, amd Belcea very introspective.

Tatrai should not be forgotten.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Oh and there's The Bartok String Quartet which Steve Emerson liked. The "Canyon Classics" recordings. Certainly worth hearing - on symphonyshare. I haven't got a strong opinion about what they do, I need to revisit the recordings, - but they are clearly inspired.

[Andy Evans]

> There's a whole mess of Hungarian Quartet recordings I intend to sort out some time, different lineups, different versions. There's something called "The New Hungarian Quartet" who recorded for Vox - I thought the were pretty amazing in 4.

The New Hungarian Quartet, 1972 on, retained the original violist Koromzay and had Toth as leader instead of Szekely. They were pretty good and worth listening to.

The Hungarian quartet was formed with Sandor Vegh in 1935 but by 1937 Szekely was leader, so that's the lineup that's on most recordings. Szekely and Koromzay went through to 1972 though the 2nd violin and cello changed. This lineup recorded the Bartok set for DG in 1962.

There's versions of 5 and 6 on Testament Mono, with Moskovsky and Palatai which come from a live recital in Edinburgh in 1955. Very good by all accounts.

Also a live 1961 5th on Orfeo with Kuttner and Magyar, as the 1962 set. And live versions in Menton 1961 of 5 and 6 which may/may not be the same as on Orfeo.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hungarian-String-Quartet-and-Zoltan-Szekely-Historical-Recordings-and-Previously-Unissued-Public-Performances-1937-1968/dp/B0007MSV52/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk?ie=UTF8

There was a studio set from 1946 issued on HMV 78s. Don't know anything about that but it had good reviews at the time.

[Terry]

Ah, I see your problem. You need English lessons. By way of clarification, that means tuition in the English language rather than lessons conducted in England itself.

[Terry]

I own and enjoy the recordings by the Alexander Quartet (on Foghorn Classics); the Hagen Quartet (on Newton Classics); the Emerson Quartet (on Deutsche Grammophon); and the Guarneri Quartet (also on Newton Classics). My first exposure to these works was in recordings by the Hungarian Quartet, and I used to own recordings by the Tokyo Quartet and by the Juillards, and I thought they were pretty good too. In fact, I don't believe I've yet heard a recording of these works that I wouldn't like to own.

[William Sommerwerck]

> What is a "self-recommending recording"?

This is a British expression. It means that the recording is of such obvious
excellence that virtually every listener will love it.

[Lionel Tacchini]

It seems no one using this "expression" actually has a clue of what it
means.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[howie...@btinternet.com]

It is so similar to that French construction where you use reflexive form to say something in the passive voice.

It's self recommending = it is recommended by everyone = ça se conseille. The se = self. I can't think of any other English expression which follows the same schema.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

You can say in English (though I think it's a bit old fashioned) "That speaks for itself" It's obvious, ça se voit.

[Andy Evans]

> >> What is a "self-recommending recording"?
>
> > This is a British expression. It means that the recording is of such obvious excellence that virtually every listener will love it.
>
> It seems no one using this "expression" actually has a clue of what it means.

> Lionel Tacchini

I agree it's a silly construction - the closest you can get to any sense is the interpretation that "the excellence of the recording is in itself enough to ensure that people will like and recommend it". As much as that makes sense, which it doesn't really since excellence is no guarantee of universal approval. And besides and beyond this, excellence in music isn't intrinsic anyway since in itself it depends on critical acclaim.

It's a construction similar in spirit to "he succeeded on his own merits" i.e. without the help of other factors like advocacy, spin etc.

"Self-recommending" is also loosely similar in spirit to "self-evident" as in truths being self-evident.

But however much these constructions may be used in common speech, I agree with Lionel that they don't make much literal sense.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Lionel Tacchini" wrote in message news:ltvnq7$896$1...@gwaiyur.mb-net.net...

>>> What is a "self-recommending recording"?

>> This is a British expression. It means that the recording is of such
>> obvious excellence that virtually every listener will love it.

> It seems no one using this "expression" actually has a clue of what it
> means.

I understood it the first time I heard it.

[William Sommerwerck]

"Andy Evans" wrote in message

news:1ad63923-a6e1-47cb...@googlegroups.com...

> But however much these constructions may be used in common
> speech, I agree with Lionel that they don't make much literal sense.

And your point is...? Many idiomatic expressions are meaningless literally.

[William Sommerwerck]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news:lu00bp$r8g$1...@dont-email.me...

I understood it the first time I heard it. >> It was self-explanatory! <<

(There's a French expression about thinking of a clever reply only after
leaving the party, or walking upstairs, or something like that.)

[Aage Johansen]

Both "D�ren m� lukkes" (the door must be closed) and "Vennligst lukk
d�ren" (please close the door) may be used, but I cannot remember to
have seen/heard the former (unless someone ignored the "Vennligst..."! -
a stern admonition).

--
Aage J.

[Andy Evans]

> Both "D�ren m� lukkes" (the door must be closed) and "Vennligst lukk
>
> d�ren" (please close the door) may be used, but I cannot remember to
>
> have seen/heard the former (unless someone ignored the "Vennligst..."! - a stern admonition).

> Aage J.

It was in a door in Oslo when I lived there in the 80s. Why the passive is used may vary - it's in many cases a way of making a point impersonally so that people's feelings are not brought into question. This might suit Norwegians who can be quite introverted.

It can also be quite peremptory, as in "you have been told many times about this". A bit more German in tone.

[Ray Hall]

So did I, but the term means absolutely nothing really. Penguinese for
not having to explain why they consider something is excellent.

Slack. Lazy.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Bozo]

>On Sunday, August 31, 2014 7:44:38 PM UTC-5, Ray Hall wrote:
> So did I, but the term means absolutely nothing really. Penguinese for
> not having to explain why they consider something is excellent.
> Slack. Lazy.
>

I agree in most cases, but if new recordings of Rubinstein playing Chopin Mazurkas, or Richter playing Prokofieff sonatas, or Horowitz playing Scriabin, or young Sutherland in " Lucia ", were announced, I'd probably purchase regardless of reviews or need for reviews.

[Lionel Tacchini]

Yes, obviously.
--
Lionel Tacchini

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:49:22 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What are the really good Bartok quartet versions currently available? Both full sets and individual quartets.
>
>
>
> The Juilliard 1963 version is self-recommending, but what about these:
>
>
>
> - Hungarian DG
>
> - Tokyo DG
>
> - Tatrai Hungaraton
>
> - Talich Collins Classics
>
> - Ramor Denon
>
> - Bartok Canyon Classics (rare)
>
> - Takacs Decca

The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:

http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/

[Andy Evans]

> The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:
> http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/

Interesting list of 1,000 recordings - I hadn't seen the site before. A lot I agree with and a lot of omissions of course.

I agree on Bartok's quartets being in the list - they're stunningly good. But not particularly the Takacs. I've come to recognise that I prefer the more subtle recordings of works I love - slightly slower tempi, more revealing of inner detail, strong melodic qualities. I've come to dread recordings that reviewers endlessly praise as "powerful, energetic, fiery, passionate, fervent, high-voltage." I get very interested in recordings they consider "underpowered, lyrical, thought-provoking".

So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as "refined but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on the right track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red blooded" and say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last" then - in the words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead.....

[William Sommerwerck]

"Andy Evans" wrote in message

news:5cba2d37-bb1d-4040...@googlegroups.com...

> So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as
> "refined but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on

> the right track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red-

> blooded" and say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last"
> then - in the words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead...

But you can still face the music and dance, right?

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2014, Andy Evans wrote:

> The most interesting so far has been the Tatrai
> to the point that I ordered it online at more than I wanted to
> pay.

Too late for you, but in case others are interested, Amazon USA
still has one copy of the Chamber Music component of Hungaroton's
Bartók Edition for $53.71, for some reason only about half the
price of Amazon UK. This is a 6-CD set that includes the Tatrai's
quartets and some other excellent performances.

Amazon ASIN is B00016ZKOY.
--
Al Eisner

[Al Eisner]

Why assume that it actually means anything? So far as I can tell,
in the current context it's simply a way of backing up one's
own opinion with some supposedly unimpechable authority.
--
Al Eisner

[wkasimer]

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 4:59:03 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:

> So far as I can tell, in the current context it's simply a way of backing up one's own opinion with some supposedly unimpechable authority. <

I think that it may be misused in this instance, but I've always understood the term "self-recommending" to mean that just by reading the cover of a CD and noting the performers and the music being played, one has a pretty good idea about the quality of the recording. It doesn't mean that it's definitive (a term I dislike). So something like the Borodin Quartet's Shostakovich, or Tom Krause singing Sibelius, or Furtwangler conducting Wagner, is "self-recommending".

It's a little like the phrase "owns the music" with respect to a performer of a particular work.

Bill

[tomdeacon]

The best music is life-changing. Ditto the greatest interpretations. The
tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets
played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes?

Maybe you are looking for lullabies?
--
TD

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 03.09.2014 23:39, tomdeacon wrote:
> The best music is life-changing.

Poor things who are ready to have their life changed by music.

> Ditto the greatest interpretations. The
> tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets
> played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes?

The man is thoroughly irrelevant. Art is not about artists.
There ought to be more than intensity in music worthy of attention. Or
we might just be as happy with Ted Nugent.
--
Lionel Tacchini

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 7:27:52 AM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini wrote:
> Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes?
>
>
>
> The man is thoroughly irrelevant.

Yeah, who he, Bartok?

[Andy Evans]

<The tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes? Maybe you are looking for lullabies?

Tempo is never irrelevant.

I agree that intensity is important. But what gives us intensity? It's too facile to see intensity as the opposite of "gentleness" and I never said I wanted my Bartok gentle. Thoughtful yes.

Look at it this way - great art fires off more neurons in the brain because it arouses a variety of responses, asks many questions, forces us to consider novel ideas that bypass our well-worn neural pathways. Firing off multiple neural pathways isn't done by loudness or speed. That just increases our arousal. Which explains the vacuous nature of most action movies. What is required is a lot more than the obvious quality of energy. That's much too simplistic. It needs complexity and depth and often some kind of novelty so that we hear things in the music we don't hear in other versions.

[Andy Evans]

Just a follow-up to the previous post. What I mean by neural pathways can be easily demonstrated by mapping brain activity in a scanner. Put a woman in a scanner and ask her to knit a stitch that she has been doing automatically for years and there is virtually no activity apart from a couple of localised points. Ask her to knit a novel and difficult stitch and the brain lights up in many areas - there is a much more complex response. I don't know if such experiments have been done with great art, but it wouldn't be hard to set them up.

What I mean by arousal versus complex brain response is, for instance the difference between "Un Chien Andalou" which evokes a visceral arousal response and "Ceci n'est pas Une Pipe" by Magritte, which is troubling because we continue to grapple with the innate contradiction. The painting is totally static, but it nevertheless provokes a complex response.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 12:33:59 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> <The tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes? Maybe you are looking for lullabies?
>
>
>
> Tempo is never irrelevant.
>
>
>
> I agree that intensity is important. But what gives us intensity? It's too facile to see intensity as the opposite of "gentleness" and I never said I wanted my Bartok gentle. Thoughtful yes.
>
>
>

> Look at it this way - great art fires off more neurons in the brain because it arouses a variety of responses, asks many questions, forces us to consider novel ideas that bypass our well-worn neural pathways. Firing off multiple neural pathways isn't done by loudness or speed. That just increases our arousal...

Good point. Art is not only about stimulation, but also about contemplation of subtleties, nuances, intricacies, undercurrents, i.e., details which are often underrated, neglected and overlooked by the intensity of an adrenaline rush performance.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

On Thursday, 4 September 2014 11:33:59 UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> <The tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes? Maybe you are looking for lullabies?
>
>
>
> Tempo is never irrelevant.
>
>
>
> I agree that intensity is important. But what gives us intensity? It's too facile to see intensity as the opposite of "gentleness" and I never said I wanted my Bartok gentle. Thoughtful yes.
>
>
>

And do you find the Ebene 4 too gentle?

[Andy Evans]

> And do you find the Ebene 4 too gentle?

I never used the word gentle in Bartok - that comes from Tom.

[George P]

I'm with you, Andy. I much prefer the Hungarian recording to the Takacs for Bartok.

George

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, September 4, 2014 5:55:25 AM UTC-5, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Good point. Art is not only about stimulation, but also about contemplation of >subtleties, nuances, intricacies, undercurrents, i.e., details which are often >underrated, neglected and overlooked by the intensity of an adrenaline rush >performance.

Some of the same reasons why drinking wine goes so well with CM !

[Andy Evans]

Well - I'm now the proud owner of the Hungarians on DG, the Bartok on a download from SymphonyShare and the Tatrai on Hungaraton. I haven't had time to listen much yet. What I've heard of the Tatrai is beyond praise - I'm astonished at some of the playing. The Hungarian is better known and I like it a lot. The Bartok Qt. is good too, but the recording is very rich and resonant. I have a lot of respect for this quartet, and the download from SymphonyShare of their Dvorak, Debussy and Ravel is really excellent and also in much more natural sound. I wish the 6 Bartok quartets had the sound they had on this download, but there we are. Three versions well worth having, and I'd say the Tatrai is worth the extra money I had to pay for it. No regrets there at all.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Yes I like the Tatrai very much too, astonishing in 4 and 6. I think the New Hungarian Quartet on Vox has some of the quality of grey shading that I hear in Tatrai.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:49:22 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What are the really good Bartok quartet versions currently available? Both full sets and individual quartets.
>
>
>
> The Juilliard 1963 version is self-recommending, but what about these:
>
>
>
> - Hungarian DG
>
> - Tokyo DG
>
> - Tatrai Hungaraton
>
> - Talich Collins Classics
>
> - Ramor Denon
>
> - Bartok Canyon Classics (rare)
>
> - Takacs Decca
>

> - Vegh Teldec 70s
>
> - Keller Apex
>
>
>
> and others.....

What about YOUTUBE recommendations?

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:1b8f14af-1f2b-450b...@googlegroups.com...

==============

Those you can find on Youtube and in the Youtube newsgroup.

[Andy Evans]

Youtube versions worth checking:

Hungarian Quartet - all 6 quartets at present

Vegh #4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5G1J5IsSIc&list=PL1DB8E044A1A0D679
Takacs Decca #4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0667YvaVw9w
Juilliard 1963 #5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLtLW56TH7w&list=PL2F67E0ACB89D8F7F
Tatrai #6 mov 3+4 old mono version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ItDX2rKeo
Tokyo #6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPXukN_IBYQ

The Tatrai #5 is on Spotify - worth checking that out. The Tatrai set has the most interesting responses to the "sound effects" in the music which go beyond the notes themselves. Some of the sounds they produce are quite ingenious and imaginative. Check out the first movement of #3 for instance at 1.30 on. Sounds like a film score for a horror movie.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 4, 2014 12:33:59 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> <The tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes? Maybe you are looking for lullabies?
>
>
>
> Tempo is never irrelevant.
>
>
>

> I agree that intensity is important...

Intensity, arousal and stimulation can trigger addictive tendencies and also lead to aesthetic desensitization where the restrained no longer can get noticed.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Can I just check something - did the Tatrai record some of these quartets more than once?

I just discovered the Pro Arte playing the 5th quartet, a Music ans Arts record on spotify, poor sound but interesting performance.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

That's not QUITE what I had in mind.

I don't want to sound like a snob, but:

- Is everyone who should be...............h'yah................h'yah?

[gggg...@gmail.com]

- The range of what we think and do is limited by what we fail to notice. And because we fail to notice that we fail to notice, there is little we can do to change; until we notice how failing to notice shapes our thoughts and deeds.

R.D. Laing

[O]

In article <0013e4ea-6206-43a5...@googlegroups.com>,

I'm sorry...I missed that. What was that, again?

-Owen

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 09.09.2014 15:54, O wrote:
>>> Intensity, arousal and stimulation can trigger addictive tendencies and
>>> > >also lead to aesthetic desensitization where the restrained no longer can
>>> > >get noticed.
>> >
>> >- The range of what we think and do is limited by what we fail to notice.
>> >And because we fail to notice that we fail to notice, there is little we can
>> >do to change; until we notice how failing to notice shapes our thoughts and deeds.
>> >
> I'm sorry...I missed that. What was that, again?

Now everyone noticed the failure.
--
Lionel Tacchini

[Al Eisner]

Andy should feel honored to get a reply from R.D. Laing to one of his
posts.
--
Al Eisner

[Steve Emerson]

In article <58aac8f5-206d-47bf...@googlegroups.com>,

howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

> Can I just check something - did the Tatrai record some of these quartets
> more than once?

There was a complete cycle on Dover LPs that is not the one released on
Hungaroton CDs. The earlier one may have originated with Muza but I've
never been able to confirm that. I found the later one preferable but
others might not.

SE.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

aha. There's a recording of the 5th by them on spotify which is from Muza, different from the one on Hungaroton.

I hope you have the chance to try the 5th from the Pro Arte, which is, I think, a bit special.

H

[Andy Evans]

Andy should feel honored to get a reply from R.D. Laing to one of his posts. >>

I was even more honoured to speak to R.D.Laing in person. After a speech at an international conference in which he appeared pretty coherent, he started mingling with the audience and was clearly drinking quite a bit. I went up to him and introduced myself as a musician and psychologist and we chatted a little, his words by then being quite slurred. I asked him what he thought was the future of therapy. His reply was "The three Ms..... the three Ms...... Music, Martial Arts and Meditation..... Play the blues, man!" At this point the great man fell at my feet and I had to help him up.

He was the third alcoholic therapist who I greatly admired in my life - previous to that the two most visionary therapists I ever encountered - and who helped my the most in the quickest time - were hopeless alcoholics. I met one of them socially in a bar later and he put his hand on my shoulder and said "Andy - you can't go through your whole life looking for your mother...". At this point he, too, fell at my feet and I had to help him up. I never discovered what was behind his analysis of my life and I never saw him again. Still wonder about it to this day.....

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, September 11, 2014 5:00:19 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> "Andy - you can't go through your whole life looking for your mother...". At this point he, too, fell at my >feet and I had to help him up.

" It was a woman who drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her for it."

W. C. Fields

[O]

In article <6b5c786d-6aaf-40fb...@googlegroups.com>,

"I saw those blue lights flashin' over my left shoulder
He walked right up and said, "Get off that riding mower"
I said sir, "Let me explain before you put me in the tank"
She took my keys away and now she won't drive me to drink"


-George Jones - "Honky Tonk Song" (Gotta have a real good Southern
drawl to rhyme "tank" with "drink.")

-Owen

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, September 11, 2014 9:31:36 AM UTC-5, O wrote:
>'t drive me to drink"

The West Virginia defense :

" Officer, I had to drive drunk 'cause I'm too drunk to walk home."

[Lionel Tacchini]

I never thought of posting drunk, but I realise this could be what some
do when they can't manage to speak any more.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 11, 2014 5:35:09 PM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini wrote:


> I never thought of posting drunk, but I realise this could be what some
>
> do when they can't manage to speak any more.
>

you can take that as a given

[O]

In article <974cff62-8803-40d4...@googlegroups.com>,

I'm speechless!

-Owen, but I'll have another drop of the craythur

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:39:47 AM UTC-10, tomdeacon wrote:
> Andy Evans <> wrote:
>
> >> The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:
>
> >> http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/
>
> >
>
> > Interesting list of 1,000 recordings - I hadn't seen the site before. A
>
> > lot I agree with and a lot of omissions of course.
>
> >
>
> > I agree on Bartok's quartets being in the list - they're stunningly good.
>
> > But not particularly the Takacs. I've come to recognise that I prefer the
>
> > more subtle recordings of works I love - slightly slower tempi, more
>
> > revealing of inner detail, strong melodic qualities. I've come to dread
>
> > recordings that reviewers endlessly praise as "powerful, energetic,
>
> > fiery, passionate, fervent, high-voltage." I get very interested in
>
> > recordings they consider "underpowered, lyrical, thought-provoking".
>
> >
>
> > So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as "refined
>
> > but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on the right
>
> > track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red blooded" and
>
> > say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last" then - in the
>
> > words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead.....
>
>
>

> The best music is life-changing. Ditto the greatest interpretations. The

>
> tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur. Bartok Quartets
>
> played gently, thoughtfully? Are you kidding? Ever seen that man's eyes?
>
>
>
> Maybe you are looking for lullabies?
>

> --
>
> TD

Concerning the comment about intensity and the best music and interpretations being life-changing, when one is younger, it's more about the thrill of discovery.

But as one matures, that evolves into the pleasure of re-discovery--a re-acquaintance with values that should not be overwhelmed or abandoned.

By the way, intensity may be optional, but tempo will ALWAYS matter.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:39:47 AM UTC-10, tomdeacon wrote:
> Andy Evans <> wrote:
>
> >> The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:
>
> >> http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/
>
> >
>
> > Interesting list of 1,000 recordings - I hadn't seen the site before. A
>
> > lot I agree with and a lot of omissions of course.
>
> >
>
> > I agree on Bartok's quartets being in the list - they're stunningly good.
>
> > But not particularly the Takacs. I've come to recognise that I prefer the
>
> > more subtle recordings of works I love - slightly slower tempi, more
>
> > revealing of inner detail, strong melodic qualities. I've come to dread
>
> > recordings that reviewers endlessly praise as "powerful, energetic,
>
> > fiery, passionate, fervent, high-voltage." I get very interested in
>
> > recordings they consider "underpowered, lyrical, thought-provoking".
>
> >
>
> > So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as "refined
>
> > but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on the right
>
> > track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red blooded" and
>
> > say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last" then - in the
>
> > words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead.....
>
>
>
> The best music is life-changing. Ditto the greatest interpretations. The
>

> tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur...

The impact of intensity may be what you first notice, but is not the most precious nor best part of a masterpiece:

- Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare works, but even within such works it is the least precious parts that one perceives first. Less deceptive than life, these great masterpieces do not give us their best at the beginning.

Proust

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 12.09.2014 00:52, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> - Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare works, but
> even within such works it is the least precious parts that one
> perceives first.

It's the other way around. We tend to grant more value to things which
are hard to come by.
--
Lionel Tacchini

[Herman]

Clearly due to the tortured nature of the writing it's not that easy to see what Proust is trying to say.

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 12.09.2014 08:00, Herman wrote:
> On Friday, September 12, 2014 5:50:24 AM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini
> wrote:
>> On 12.09.2014 00:52, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> - Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare works,
>>> but
>>> even within such works it is the least precious parts that one
>>> perceives first.
>>
>> It's the other way around. We tend to grant more value to things
>> which are hard to come by.

> Clearly due to the tortured nature of the writing it's not that easy
> to see what Proust is trying to say.

What he means is pretty clear but he's just thinking wrong. Nothing
uncommon, especially with people who talk more than they think.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Herman]

Linonel, the irony is you are not contradicting Proust, even though you think you do. Which is why I said the quote is rather tortured.

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 12.09.2014 09:00, Herman wrote:
> On Friday, September 12, 2014 8:46:24 AM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini
> wrote:
>> On 12.09.2014 08:00, Herman wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, September 12, 2014 5:50:24 AM UTC+2, Lionel Tacchini
>>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 12.09.2014 00:52, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>> - Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare
>>>>> works,
>>>>> but even within such works it is the least precious parts that
>>>>> one perceives first.
>>

>>>> It's the other way around. We tend to grant more value to
>>>> things which are hard to come by.

>>> Clearly due to the tortured nature of the writing it's not that
>>> easy to see what Proust is trying to say.

>>
>> What he means is pretty clear but he's just thinking wrong.
>> Nothing
>>
>> uncommon, especially with people who talk more than they think.
>>

> Lionel, the irony is you are not contradicting Proust, even though

> you think you do. Which is why I said the quote is rather tortured.
>

The observation is right but the reasoning is wrong, mixing cause and
effect.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[howie...@btinternet.com]

It's the "less deceptive than life" bit which is the clue I think. He's saying that with great music the more you are acquainted with it the more you discover precious parts. His experience with Albertine was precisely the opposite -- the longer he was acquainted with her the less he understood about her nature.

It would be good to know which novel the quote comes from, and to have it in French.

[Herman]

On Friday, September 12, 2014 2:08:09 PM UTC+2, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

>
> It's the "less deceptive than life" bit which is the clue I think. He's saying that with great music the more you are acquainted with it the more you discover precious parts. His experience with Albertine was precisely the opposite -- the longer he was acquainted with her the less he understood about her nature.
>
>
>
> It would be good to know which novel the quote comes from, and to have it in French.

You're not seriously thinking Quote Man reads those books, do you?

[Steve Emerson]

In article <1a659853-37ac-43da...@googlegroups.com>,

howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

> > - Not only does one not retain all at once the truly rare works, but even
> > within such works it is the least precious parts that one perceives first.
> > Less deceptive than life, these great masterpieces do not give us their
> > best at the beginning.
> >
> >
> >
> > Proust
>
> It's the "less deceptive than life" bit which is the clue I think. He's
> saying that with great music the more you are acquainted with it the more you
> discover precious parts. His experience with Albertine was precisely the
> opposite -- the longer he was acquainted with her the less he understood
> about her nature.
>
> It would be good to know which novel the quote comes from, and to have it in
> French.

Volume 2 of Proust's novel, i.e. A l'Ombre des Jeunes Filles en Fleur.

"Et non seulement on ne retient pas tout de suite les oeuvres vraiment
rares, mais m�me au sein de chacune de ces oeuvres-l�, et cela m'arriva
pour la Sonate de Vinteuil, ce sont les parties les moins pr�cieuses
qu'on per�oit d'abord."

It's a long passage, the breadth of which is only hinted at by the
quoted part. The second sentence doesn't follow the first, but occurs
about 200 words later:

"Mais, moins d�cevants que la vie, ces grands chefs-d'oeuvre ne
commencent pas par nous donner ce qu'ils ont de meilleur."

SE.

[Al Eisner]

Great stories! You may have noticed that since that response, you have
also received a response from Marcel Proust. That certainly ups the
ante.
--
Al Eisner

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 12.09.2014 20:17, Steve Emerson wrote:
> In article <1a659853-37ac-43da...@googlegroups.com>,
> howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

>>
>> It would be good to know which novel the quote comes from, and to have it in
>> French.
>
> Volume 2 of Proust's novel, i.e. A l'Ombre des Jeunes Filles en Fleur.
>
> "Et non seulement on ne retient pas tout de suite les oeuvres vraiment
> rares, mais m�me au sein de chacune de ces oeuvres-l�, et cela m'arriva
> pour la Sonate de Vinteuil, ce sont les parties les moins pr�cieuses
> qu'on per�oit d'abord."

Now who's going to recommend a best recording of Vinteuil's sonata?

> It's a long passage, the breadth of which is only hinted at by the
> quoted part. The second sentence doesn't follow the first, but occurs
> about 200 words later:
>
> "Mais, moins d�cevants que la vie, ces grands chefs-d'oeuvre ne
> commencent pas par nous donner ce qu'ils ont de meilleur."

C'mon, do not disappoint me ;-)

--
Lionel Tacchini - back on topic

[John Wiser]

"Lionel Tacchini" <lionel....@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:luvfva$4d1$1...@gwaiyur.mb-net.net...

This is as near as I can get, which is not very:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJRVwULpK0k

jdw

[Steve Emerson]

In article <8e43b36d-3c37-474e...@googlegroups.com>,

Thanks for the lead. It's by the Pro Arte in name only, as the quartet
is led by Kolisch and has only one musician (violist) from the familiar
Onnou-led Pro Arte Quartet.

This is not a bad thing, because Kolisch had very strong Bartok
associations. His quartet gave the first performances of Bartok 3, 5,
and 6 (one of which was meant for the Hungarian Quartet but ended up
with a Kolisch premiere and revised dedication due to travel constraints
and the War).

There's some affecting playing, especially in the Adagio; also some very
shaky intonation, and there are places (via Spotify) where I can't fully
hear what's going on.

There's a Bartok 1 by the Onnou-led Pro Arte (1934, on Biddulph). This
#5 holds up much better than that does.

I remain completely smitten with the Kelemen Quartet's accounts of #5,
although they are not at all like the one with Kolisch. Have you heard?
A 2013 performance appeared at Symphonyshare, and there's one on Hunnia
Records from 2011. Both live. The finale of the latter is on Youtube but
it is really a disservice to hear it absent the first four movements.

SE.

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 12.09.2014 23:59, John Wiser wrote:
> "Lionel Tacchini" <lionel....@arcor.de> wrote in message
> news:luvfva$4d1$1...@gwaiyur.mb-net.net...
>> On 12.09.2014 20:17, Steve Emerson wrote:
>>> In article <1a659853-37ac-43da...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

>>> "Et non seulement on ne retient pas tout de suite les oeuvres vraiment
>>> rares, mais m�me au sein de chacune de ces oeuvres-l�, et cela m'arriva
>>> pour la Sonate de Vinteuil, ce sont les parties les moins pr�cieuses
>>> qu'on per�oit d'abord."
>>
>> Now who's going to recommend a best recording of Vinteuil's sonata?
>>
>

> This is as near as I can get, which is not very:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJRVwULpK0k

That's not the real thing :-(
Besides, it says "noble, majestic", not "lifelessly dragging".
Was that Fennimore guy reading translations?

http://open.spotify.com/track/21e1oUn8ZCVvbK64ne5lhG
--
Lionel Tacchini - hopeless

[howie...@btinternet.com]

You get more of the context here

http://berceuse.electrique.over-blog.com/article-25308793.html


Here's another shot at what he means:

You don't get to understand a masterpiece first time round, it takes successive encounters, and what you liked at the first encounter you may not like so much when you know it better. The best bits are accessible only with time.

But with people (la vie) it's slightly different. Like with works of art, you don't get to know a person well unless you have many encounters with them. But with people what you notice in the early encounters is their best side -- as you see more of them you become aware of their less good qualities.

With life, the less you're aware of, the less you understand, the more prominent the good bits are. With art, the more you can see the more prominent the good bits are.

For this reason, art is less disappointing (décevant) than life.

As far as I recall his relationship with Albertine was only beginning in the second novel. So what I said in my post above was misleading, but of course the earlier parts of the novel anticipate the later parts. And there is this marvelous sentence in the same paragraph, which really shows how complete his vision of the novel was:

"on peut en avoir eu et ne pas avoir cru . . . à la fausseté d’une maîtresse ou d’un ami, dont de plus médiocres eussent prévu les trahisons"

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Re Pro Arte, your comment about intonation reminded me of a review of Vol 1 of the Testament transfers of their Haydn on amazon uk which I find really perplexing, I wonder what you think:

"They clearly used just intonation in an individual way and - especially in sharp keys and in contrapuntal combinations - it can be as disconcerting as it could be with the Amadeus on an off-day, and much more so than on the original 78s. Is it worth getting used to? I'd say yes, but if you can, try it before buying"

I don't really understand the relationship between temperament and intonation, I'd like to understand these things better, not least because they're important in baroque music.

[Lionel Tacchini]

On 13.09.2014 14:09, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:

>> "Mais, moins d�cevants que la vie, ces grands chefs-d'oeuvre ne
>>
>> commencent pas par nous donner ce qu'ils ont de meilleur."
>>
>>
>>
>> SE.
>
> You get more of the context here
>
> http://berceuse.electrique.over-blog.com/article-25308793.html
>

How dreadful.

> Here's another shot at what he means:

Not needed thanks, we got it long ago. Verbose people have nothing to
say which others have not understood before, they just don't realise it.

--
Lionel Tacchini

[Lionel Tacchini]

It's just that no one will record the damn sonata. Maybe Melodya has it…

--
Lionel Tacchini

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 11:39:47 AM UTC-10, tomdeacon wrote:
> Andy Evans <> wrote:
>
> >> The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:
>
> >> http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/
>
> >
>
> > Interesting list of 1,000 recordings - I hadn't seen the site before. A
>
> > lot I agree with and a lot of omissions of course.
>
> >
>
> > I agree on Bartok's quartets being in the list - they're stunningly good.
>
> > But not particularly the Takacs. I've come to recognise that I prefer the
>
> > more subtle recordings of works I love - slightly slower tempi, more
>
> > revealing of inner detail, strong melodic qualities. I've come to dread
>
> > recordings that reviewers endlessly praise as "powerful, energetic,
>
> > fiery, passionate, fervent, high-voltage." I get very interested in
>
> > recordings they consider "underpowered, lyrical, thought-provoking".
>
> >
>
> > So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as "refined
>
> > but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on the right
>
> > track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red blooded" and
>
> > say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last" then - in the
>
> > words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead.....
>
>
>
> The best music is life-changing. Ditto the greatest interpretations. The
>
> tempo is irrelevant, but the intensity is de rigueur...

According to this new book:

- The ultimate effect of a Bartok composition is one of emotional intensity.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wt4EAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT36&dq=%22The+ultimate+effect+of+a+Bartok+composition+is+one+of+emotional+intensity.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NooVVP-hOpL8oQTZloH4Bg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20ultimate%20effect%20of%20a%20Bartok%20composition%20is%20one%20of%20emotional%20intensity.%22&f=false

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 10:21:25 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> > The following on the Takacs Decca may be of interest:
>
> > http://www.1000recordings.com/music/six-string-quartets-takac-quartet/
>
>
>
> Interesting list of 1,000 recordings - I hadn't seen the site before. A lot I agree with and a lot of omissions of course.
>
>
>
> I agree on Bartok's quartets being in the list - they're stunningly good. But not particularly the Takacs. I've come to recognise that I prefer the more subtle recordings of works I love - slightly slower tempi, more revealing of inner detail, strong melodic qualities. I've come to dread recordings that reviewers endlessly praise as "powerful, energetic, fiery, passionate, fervent, high-voltage." I get very interested in recordings they consider "underpowered, lyrical, thought-provoking".
>
>
>
> So when the Penguin guide describes the Hungarian DG version as "refined but do not convey the full intensity" I'm confident we're on the right track. When they describe the Juilliard as "dramatic and red blooded" and say the Takacs "play every note as if it were their last" then - in the words of the song - I know there may be trouble ahead.....

According to the following:

- My aim is to show that a more restrained, less violent performance would better bring out the structure and emotional content of the movement.

http://books.google.com/books?id=oos6AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA219&dq=%22My+aim+is+to+show+that+a+more+restrained,+less+violent+performance%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v4gcVL2jE8eqogSEpIHoAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22My%20aim%20is%20to%20show%20that%20a%20more%20restrained%2C%20less%20violent%20performance%22&f=false

[howie...@btinternet.com]

On Saturday, 30 August 2014 19:02:04 UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> I haven't listened much to the Juilliards, and the Zehetmair not at all. I initially liked the Tokyo on DG but started to prefer the Hungarian. This still intrigues me because of the wealth of detail in the textures. It's lyrical but the voices are very blended, so there is less of a sense of architecture that one gets when certain strands stand out. It's kind of homogenous - less drama but a good deal of subtlety. So I'll probably keep coming back to it on occasions. I then found the Ramor quite interesting - another hungarian quartet. The most interesting so far has been the Tatrai to the point that I ordered it online at more than I wanted to pay. It's very lyrical, quite dark, and there's something "right" about the playing that just lets the music come through. I found myself listening to the 5th quartet four times in a row on Spotify, and preferring it to a few other versions. So I concluded that something about it was grabbing my emotions. For the record I'm moved by lyrical versions, and not speeds that are too fast to let the music breathe. I think several versions are overly dramatic and too fast and I think it robs the music of soul. Listen to the Tatrai and the soul is there. So that's my findings to date. Haven't heard Parkanyi and several others but have heard bits of Vegh, Emerson, Talich, Keller, New Hungarian, Takacs. Not uninteresting versions.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:10:37 PM UTC+1, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
>
> > I don't believe the Juilliard 1963 is self recommending - their 1950 recording is though.
>
> > I'm afraid I don't know the first two quartets very well, but one which recently really impressed me in 4 and 5 was Zehetmair.

Thanks for drawing my attention to Ramor, whose 5 I'm finding very intriguing.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:12:45 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> > I'm not that interested in the Decca recording but I'd like to hear the original Hungaroton - not sure about the availability of that one. I'm listening to the Mikrokosmos on Spotify. I don't know if it displaces the Hungarian or Tatrai which I'm currently liking most. But it sounds pretty good.
>
>
>
> The original Takacs on Hungaroton is on Spotify so I listened a bit. I find both the playing and recording rougher than the later Mikrokosmos, so I don't think it's competitive. I don't think Gabor Takacs-Nagy is quite a Szekely but his interpretation seems to have matured over the years. The Mikrokosmos is certainly much better played and recorded.

Their complete string q.'s are on sale now at Barnes & N.:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bart-k-the-six-string-quartets-mikrokosmos-string-quartet/19029467?ean=5991813251329

[jrsnfld]

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 at 11:57:11 AM UTC-7, Bozo wrote:
> >On Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:49:22 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> I have only the Emerson's set. Here is the 1988 Gramophone review :
>
> http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1636
>
> Right now you can hear the youngish Modigliani Quartet play the 2nd Bartok Quartet live in France :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/oauokty

I just listened to this Modigliani concert including Bartok SQ2...outstanding. Excellent Haydn and Beethoven as well, but the Bartok was especially wonderful. The Modigliani Q makes a lovely sound.

--Jeff

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 at 2:49:22 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What are the really good Bartok quartet versions currently available? Both full sets and individual quartets.
>
> The Juilliard 1963 version is self-recommending, but what about these:
>
> - Hungarian DG
> - Tokyo DG
> - Tatrai Hungaraton
> - Talich Collins Classics
> - Ramor Denon
> - Bartok Canyon Classics (rare)
> - Takacs Decca
> - Vegh Teldec 70s
> - Keller Apex
>
> and others.....

Recent list of recommended recordings:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/recommends/home.htm

[Andy Evans]

These are the recommendations:

Bartok: String Quartets
Emerson Quartet (Deutsche Grammophon) [LW]
Fine Arts Quartet (Saga) [RB]
Juilliard Quartet (Pearl) [JW]
Takacs Quartet (Decca) [MC]
Tokyo String Quartet (RCA) [SG]
Quatuor Vegh (Naïve) [SG]

Just about all the versions I would NOT listen to.

I've been very happy with the Hungarian, Tatrai and Bartok quartets since starting this thread.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

According to the following:

- Bartok's quartets are an excellent example of a composer working through the question of what it means to write for string quartet. So is the marvelous set by Shostakovich. In both cases, when you get to the latter quartets, you hear the same kind of soul-searching that you hear in Beethoven's late quartets, but in the language of the composer, not in anyone else's language (i.e. Bartok doesn't resemble anyone but himself).

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-historical-and-musical-significance-of-Op-131-quartet-by-Beethoven

[Raymond Hall]

I've got the Keller Qrt. for the Bartok, but whilst OK with a fair bit of contemporary music, I still cannot put my hand on heart and say I like the Bartok string quartets.

I listened to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew for the first time a few days ago, and instantly fell in love with the music. The Bartok however ,,,

Ray Hall, Taree

[Gerard]

Op woensdag 30 november 2016 10:49:05 UTC+1 schreef Raymond Hall:

>
> I've got the Keller Qrt. for the Bartok, but whilst OK with a fair bit of contemporary music, I still cannot put my hand on heart and say I like the Bartok string quartets.
>
> I listened to Miles Davis' Bitches Brew for the first time a few days ago, and instantly fell in love with the music. The Bartok however ,,,
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

You should hear Bitches Brew performed by the Keller Quartet before comparing ;-)