Pollini's live recording of Davidsbundlertanze and Kreisleriana

[mandryka]

There's a CD on the label "Exclusive", EX92T31, of Pollini playing
Davidsbundlertanze and Kreisleriana in Salzburg in 1984 and 1982
respectively.

Can anyone say what these performances are like?

[td]

No. But surely what one CAN say is that they are PIRATE performances
from Austrian Radio broadcasts which have not been approved for sale
by the artist or by the Salzburg Festival or by Austrian Radio.

At the prices asked, you are likely buying a pig in a poke.

TD

[Herman]

I have had a cassette tape of the DBT from Salzburg for many years and I liked it very much.

Pollini's general DG record is so much harsher and colder than he is live.

[Dufus]

>On Aug 1, 4:41 pm, mandryka <howie.st...@btinternet.com> wrot

> Can anyone say what these performances are like?

But here is a live " Kreisleriana" in London, 2008 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_gE-1RYhKE&playnext=1&list=PL053BD155E6BC70E4&feature=results_video

[mandryka]

Thanks Herman. I was wondering whether that one was the one you had.

It's not just harshness and coldness which bug me, it's also the sense
that he's slightly rushing, not letting the music breath enough. And
the limited colour range is a problem maybe. But I think some of the
live records I've heard are so inspired and communicative that I can
live with those problems. I thought the Debussy Etudes were like
that.

And anyway his vision of the music is so astonishing sometimes, even
on DG. Have you heard what he does with Beethoven's OP 2/1? Or in the
slow movement of that live Hammerklavier I sent you.

[td]

On Aug 2, 3:17 am, mandryka <howie.st...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Aug 2, 2:50 am, Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Le mercredi 1 août 2012 23:41:50 UTC+2, mandryka a écrit :
>
> > > There's a CD on the label "Exclusive", EX92T31, of Pollini playing
>
> > > Davidsbundlertanze and Kreisleriana in Salzburg in 1984 and 1982
>
> > > respectively.
>
> > > Can anyone say what these performances are like?
>
> > I have had a cassette tape of the DBT from Salzburg for many years and I liked it very much.
>
> > Pollini's general DG record is so much harsher and colder than he is live.
>
> Thanks Herman. I was wondering whether that one was the one you had.
>
> It's not just harshness and coldness which bug me, it's also the sense
> that he's slightly rushing, not letting the music breath enough. And
> the limited colour range is a problem maybe. But I think some of the
> live records I've heard are so inspired and communicative that I can
> live with those problems. I thought the Debussy Etudes were like
> that.

I once broadcast the "live" Debussy Etudes on the CBC in the 1980s
from Salzburg. It is my impression - my memory may be failing me -
that the DG release WAS a live version released by DG. Perhaps no
audience noise apparent, but that is very easy to eliminate, as you
know.

> And anyway his vision of the music is so astonishing sometimes, even
> on DG. Have you heard what he does with Beethoven's OP 2/1? Or in the
> slow movement of that live Hammerklavier I sent you.

I heard him play Op. 106 several times in the 1960s and 1970s. Each
time he banged his way mercilessly through the piece. I pleaded for
mercy, but he continued relentlessly.

Perhaps his approach has softened in recent years. Once can only hope
that it also has become more accurate, as the live performances I
heard were quite messy, actually.

TD

[mandryka]

Try the recording for yourself if you like, Tom. It's from Paris in
2009 (excellent sound)

http://www.mediafire.com/?f2adsv5169zb9

According to this online discography the DG Debussy Etudes weren't
live

http://tau.sub.jp/pollini/debussy-claude-1862-1918-/

Howard

[td]

I shall look out the CD and let you know.

TD

[maready]

I haven't listened to it recently but as I recall, the sound is good,
Pollini is good and it's pretty much what you'd expect: a tad more
spontaneous than the later studio recordings of the pieces and the
sound of Pollini's 'touch' is much more representative of what he
actually sounds like live (or did in the eighties, the last time I saw
him.) In other words, he DOES have a somewhat 'steely' sound, but
nothing as fierce or unrelenting as (some of) his studio DGG
recordings would lead you to believe. Also on Exclusive and also from
the same time period are a CD containing a Prokoviev 7 and some
Debussy, also a two CD set of Mozart concertos (CD1 with the English
Chamber Orchestra, CD2 with the WP.) The first half of the Mozart
package is probably my very favorite Pollini recording. If you see any
of these at a reasonable price, they're worth having, but I wouldn't
pay more than 10 or 15 bucks ..... There's a Hammerklavier on another
'unofficial' label from the 80s. It's good! With some finger slips and
fudged notes you won't hear on the DGG 'Late Sonatas' package (one of
the studio records that come closest to capturing Pollini's surprising
sumptuous tone. Although it sounds much better on the original LPs
than the CD.)

[fees...@gmail.com]

Op donderdag 2 augustus 2012 00:03:38 UTC+2 schreef td het volgende:

>
>
>
> No. But surely what one CAN say is that they are PIRATE performances
>
> from Austrian Radio broadcasts which have not been approved for sale
>
> by the artist or by the Salzburg Festival or by Austrian Radio.
>
>
>
> At the prices asked, you are likely buying a pig in a poke.
>
>
>
> TD

I would say that they are semi-pirated recordings, because there are more of them on the same label, e.g Mozart concertos that have been sort of commercially issued, he conducted the English Chamber Orchestra (as someone posted earlier) and I know that the French newspaper Le Monde "used" them for one of their Saturday editions.
There is indeed also a live Debussy Etudes CD (Vienna, 6 June 1986), coupled to Chopin's Polonaise-Fantaisie. However, I think the commercial DGG recording is a studio recording.

TH

[Tassilo]

Pollini is much more interesting live than on DG, but I haven't heard these performances.

-dg

[mandryka]

Thanks for all these replies. I'd very much like to hear the Mozart
concertos as his PC19 with Bohm is a record I cherish. I haven't heard
the recent records with VPO.

You know there is quite a lot of live stuff on youtube, including some
Chopin mazurkas which I've been playing this morning. I heard him play
some Mazurkas as an encore in London a few years ago, very memorably.

[td]

The same can be said about each and every artist who has ever made a
record, including Glenn Gould.

You want live? Go to a concert.

But really, David, you do need some help. Your anitipathy to DG (see
your posts on Boulez's excellent DG CDs) is clearly beyond a phobia;
it has become an obsession. Treatment should be available at a
psychiatrist near you.

TD

TD

[td]

His Chopin is usually memorable, including those icy Nocturnes. Never
heard them played like that by anyone else before or since.

TD

[td]

On Aug 2, 4:28 pm, feest...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op donderdag 2 augustus 2012 00:03:38 UTC+2 schreef td het volgende:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > No. But surely what one CAN say is that they are PIRATE performances
>
> > from Austrian Radio broadcasts which have not been approved for sale
>
> > by the artist or by the Salzburg Festival or by Austrian Radio.
>
> > At the prices asked, you are likely buying a pig in a poke.
>
> > TD
>
> I would say that they are semi-pirated recordings

This is meaningless.

They are pirated - i.e. no rights - or they are legal products,
approved for sale by the artist and all other entities involved in the
performance.

Clearly these are not legal. Hence their vague existence in the
marketplace.

TD

[Gerard]

td <tomde...@mac.com> typed:

Which could mean "good", and could mean "bad".

[mandryka]

On Aug 3, 2:47 pm, "Gerard" <ghendrik-nospam_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> td <tomdedea...@mac.com> typed:

The danger with modernism in music is that it becomes workmanlike. But
somehow Pollini often avoids that.

Just listen to these mazurkas from London in 2008, which I find
extremely poetic, moving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yweyB8lI7kY

If you play Michelangeli next to Pollini in the same music
Michelangeli sounds like the last romantic. But Pollini also makes
Michelangeli sounds slightly tawdry and vulgar by comparison (I never
thought I would say that!)

It's like modernism in architecture -- Pollini's the Mies van der Rohe
of the piano. ABM's the Le Corbusier.

I'd better shut up I think.

[fees...@gmail.com]

Op vrijdag 3 augustus 2012 14:10:26 UTC+2 schreef td het volgende:

>
> This is meaningless.
>
>
>
> They are pirated - i.e. no rights - or they are legal products,
>
> approved for sale by the artist and all other entities involved in the
>
> performance.
>
>
>
> Clearly these are not legal. Hence their vague existence in the
>
> marketplace.
>
>
>
> TD

But how can the French leading newspaper issue these if they are illegal?? And obviously Pollini didn't care, otherwise he would have sanctioned them?

TH

[mandryka]

On Aug 2, 8:17 pm, maready <dab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 1, 5:41 pm, mandryka <howie.st...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > There's a CD on the label "Exclusive", EX92T31, ofPolliniplaying

> >Davidsbundlertanzeand Kreisleriana in Salzburg in 1984 and 1982

> > respectively.
>
> > Can anyone say what these performances are like?
>

> I haven't listened to it recently but as I recall, the sound is good,Polliniis good and it's pretty much what you'd expect: a tad more

> spontaneous than the later studio recordings of the pieces and the

> sound ofPollini's'touch' is much more representative of what he

> actually sounds like live (or did in the eighties, the last time I saw
> him.) In other words, he DOES have a somewhat 'steely' sound, but
> nothing as fierce or unrelenting as (some of) his studio DGG
> recordings would lead you to believe. Also on Exclusive and also from
> the same time period are a CD containing a Prokoviev 7 and some
> Debussy, also a two CD set of Mozart concertos (CD1 with the English
> Chamber Orchestra, CD2 with the WP.) The first half of the Mozart

> package is probably my very favoritePollinirecording. If you see any

> of these at a reasonable price, they're worth having, but I wouldn't
> pay more than 10 or 15 bucks ..... There's a Hammerklavier on another
> 'unofficial' label from the 80s. It's good! With some finger slips and
> fudged notes you won't hear on the DGG 'Late Sonatas' package (one of
> the studio records that come closest to capturingPollini'ssurprising
> sumptuous tone. Although it sounds much better on the original LPs
> than the CD.)

His ECO records of K459 and K491 have just been put on spotify. Are
those the ones you like so much? They're very good!

I've had a chance to hear that early Hammerklavier, and you know, I
prefer the one from Parsis in 2009 I uploaded.

[maready]

> prefer the one from Parsis in 2009 I uploaded.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If those are the 1974-ish ECO performances, then they are indeed the
ones I like so much. AS mentioned earlier, I have these on an
'Exclusive'-label 2-CD set. Even better are the ones with the Vienna
Philharmonic (on the first CD in the Exclusive box.) I'm not sure,
since I don't own the set, but it's possible that the 'unofficial' WP
recordings have received a legitimate release as part of an Andante-
label box-set:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Vienna-Philharmonic-1972-Mozart/dp/tracks/B000066C33/ref=dp_tracks_all_3#disc_3

Again, Pollini conducting the WP from the piano, K414, K449 and K466,
which matches the contents of the first CD of the Exclusive set. (And
the 2nd CD of the Exclusive is Pollini conduting the ECO from the
piano K459 and K491.)

Just to clarify, here's the Exclusive CD under discussion (the cover
has a typo: 'K446' instead of 'K466'!):

http://www.amazon.com/Maurizio-Pollini-Mozart-Concertos-exclusive/dp/B0011VJDUK/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1344539627&sr=1-6&keywords=pollini+english+chamber+orchestra

Thanks to the O.P --- I relistened to the 'live' Schumann recording
that began the discussion --- no question about it, the Pollini of the
early 80s, in a live situation, is much more spontaneous and light of
touch than he was when he made is 1990s DGG recordings. As for the
quality of DGG's engineering, they have had their ups and downs. The
micro-managed, multi-miked and digitally-edited Boulez Mahler
recordings are an example of the label at its worst. With Pollini, it
seems to me that the earlier DGG recordings, engineered by Rainer
Brock (a close colleague of Pollini's) are far better than the ones
that were done after Brock's early death (late 80s?) One of MP's later
DGG recordings is dedicated to Brock's memory --- he also worked with
the LaSalle quartet and Abbado.

[mandryka]

On Aug 2, 2:50 am, Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The live DBT is a great performance.

Another interesting one I found on youtube is Thierry de Brunhoff.