Strauss Rosenkavalier Suites

[Russ (not Martha)]

The orchestral suite from Richard Strauss's 'Der Rosenkavalier' was not compiled by the composer himself, but is generally credited to Artur Rodzinski. I have recordings by Leinsdorf/Concertgebouw, Dorati/Detroit SO, Steinberg/Philharmonia, and the latest of the 4 by Ormandy/Phila. In the first three instances, the arrangement is credited to the respective conductor. I don't know whose arrangement Ormandy conducts; probably his own.

I love the music and know it pretty well, but here's the question: does anyone know in which particulars these conductor-arrangements differ from one another?

Russ (not Martha)

[josq...@aol.com]

I have a Leinsdorf version on a Phase-4 LP : http://www.ebay.com/itm/LONDON-PHASE-4-UK-Wagner-TANNHAUSER-R-Strauss-ROSENKAVALIER-LEINSDORF-SPC-21037-/360783767912

This is with the LSO, so might not be the same one you have. It is a fine performance, but as far as I know not available on CD or MP3.

According to this article, Leinsdorf made his own arrangement: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-01-13/entertainment/ca-64_1_erich-leinsdorf

Hope this helps...

[gggg...@gmail.com]

This 2-lp album included "Rosenkavalier Waltzes" conducted by Felix Statkin:

http://thompsonian.info/slatkin-capitol-SABO8496-front.jpg

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 6:32:32 PM UTC-10, Russ (not Martha) wrote:

According to the following:

- By 1924, five years before the introduction of sound movies, the opera had been made into a silent motion picture under the direction of Robert Wiene, with a pit orchestra providing an abbreviated score. Given the orchestral virtuosity of the score and its hauntingly beautiful and infectious melodies, Richard Strauss was asked to fashion an orchestral condensation for the concert hall. Somewhat reluctantly, the composer agreed and produced a delightful First Waltz Sequence.

http://www.interlude.hk/front/presentation-of-the-roserichard-strauss-rosenkavalier-suite/

[gggg...@gmail.com]

This seems to be the cd of that movie:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yhK1YRGSAs8/TKtvdOA2sfI/AAAAAAAAAts/dLcyodhWsy4/s1600/cover_front.jpg

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 1:15:05 AM UTC-10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

The following on that film and Strauss' involvement may be of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Rosenkavalier_%281926_film%29

[gggg...@gmail.com]

The following is a cd of the composer conducting 6 excerpts from the Suite:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/richard-strauss-conducts-richard-strauss-mw0001836354

[lgan...@gmail.com]

Russ, there is compelling evidence that the Rosenkavalier Suite generally in use today (the one Ormandy conducts on his two stereo recordings, and not the waltz sequences Strauss himself arranged)) may have been compiled by the young Leonard Bernstein. Artur Rodzinski's son, Richard, found in his father's files a letter from Artur to Bernstein (his assistant conductor at the NY Philharmonic at the time) asking Bernstein's permission to use Bernstein's arrangement of the suite for an upcoming performance. We were preparing a performance of the suite at the Dallas Symphony a few years ago and our annotator could not find, despite a great deal of research, any details about the arranger of the suite other than the oft-repeated speculation that Rodzinski did it. So I called Richard Rodzinski, who told me the story. It would be great if there were something in Bernstein's papers confirming that.

Mark

[Russ (not Martha)]

A very interesting story; many thanks, Mark.

I'll add this attribution to my data base.

Russ (not Martha)

[hiker_rs]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 7:57:05 AM UTC-6, lgan...@gmail.com wrote:

> there is compelling evidence that the Rosenkavalier Suite generally in use today (the one Ormandy conducts on his two stereo recordings, and not the waltz sequences Strauss himself arranged)) may have been compiled by the young Leonard Bernstein.

Great story, thanks for sharing.

-Rich

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 1:15:05 AM UTC-10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

More on that silent movie:

- There was much at stake for Strauss. If the film failed, he failed. But if on the other hand the film were successful, it might undermine the reputation of the opera in comparison, a risk to which Strauss was acutely sensitive. The politicking between film makers, financiers, publishers and the numerous other parties engaged in the making of a movie was another aspect of the process Strauss found distasteful. His doubts were salved by liberal applications of cash, and he took the job, but it wasn't a whole-hearted effort.

Much of the routine rearrangement was turned over to assistants. Where new music was required for new scenes, Strauss preferred to recycle old tunes. The limited amount of truly new material, principally a battle march, lacks inspiration. Once complete, Strauss tried his best to turn his back on it - Hofmannsthal had another battle persuading him to conduct the 1926 Dresden premiere. But eventually the score was delivered, the premiere conducted.

http://intermezzo.typepad.com/intermezzo/2009/11/rosenkavalier-robert-wiene-chatelet-paris.html

[gggg gggg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Rosenkavalier#Rosenkavalier_Suite

[John Fowler]

There is a comprehensive catalog of the music of Richard Strauss on the internet.
It lists his music by trv numbers and av numbers (every work has a trv number, only unpublished works have av numbers).
https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Richard_Strauss
Der Rosenkavalier is trv227.
The orchestral arrangements officially credited to Strauss are trv227 a, b, c, d
1911 TrV 227a:
Der Rosenkavalier, Waltz Sequence No.2 for orchestra. Arranged from Act III.
1925 TrV 227b:
Der Rosenkavalier, incidental music for the film by Robert Wiene - Arrangement of extracts from TrV 227, TrV 167, TrV 214, TrV 217 and TrV 245.
1944 TrV 227c:
Der Rosenkavalier, Waltz Sequence No.1 for orchestra. Arranged from Acts I and II of TrV 227. .
1945 TrV 227d:
Der Rosenkavalier, suite from the opera, Strauss's authorship uncertain. Possibly compiled by Artur Rodzinski.

[Mark Obert-Thorn]

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 6:52:04 AM UTC-4, John Fowler wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 1:47:26 AM UTC-5, gggg gggg wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 8:32:32 PM UTC-8, Russ (not Martha) wrote:
> > > The orchestral suite from Richard Strauss's 'Der Rosenkavalier' was not compiled by the composer himself, but is generally credited to Artur Rodzinski. I have recordings by Leinsdorf/Concertgebouw, Dorati/Detroit SO, Steinberg/Philharmonia, and the latest of the 4 by Ormandy/Phila. In the first three instances, the arrangement is credited to the respective conductor. I don't know whose arrangement Ormandy conducts; probably his own.
> > >
> > > I love the music and know it pretty well, but here's the question: does anyone know in which particulars these conductor-arrangements differ from one another?
> > >
> > > Russ (not Martha)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Rosenkavalier#Rosenkavalier_Suite
> There is a comprehensive catalog of the music of Richard Strauss on the internet.
> It lists his music by trv numbers and av numbers (every work has a trv number, only unpublished works have av numbers).
> https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Richard_Strauss
> Der Rosenkavalier is trv227.
> The orchestral arrangements officially credited to Strauss are trv227 a, b, c, d
> 1911 TrV 227a:
> Der Rosenkavalier, Waltz Sequence No.2 for orchestra. Arranged from Act III.
> 1925 TrV 227b:

> Der Rosenkavalier, incidental music for the film by Robert Wiene - Arrangement of extracts from TrV 227, TrV 167, TrV 214, TrV 217 and TcorV 245.

> 1944 TrV 227c:
> Der Rosenkavalier, Waltz Sequence No.1 for orchestra. Arranged from Acts I and II of TrV 227. .
> 1945 TrV 227d:
> Der Rosenkavalier, suite from the opera, Strauss's authorship uncertain. Possibly compiled by Artur Rodzinski.

There is also a suite compiled by Antal Dorati, which was first recorded in 1946 by Eugene Goossens and the Cincinnatti Symphony, then later three times by Dorati himself (Robin Hood Dell Orchestra [i.e. Philadelphia Orchestra], Minneapolis SO and Detroit SO). Personally, I prefer his arrangement to the "standard" suite, as Dorati gives a wider array of excerpts from the opera (e.g., the opening of Act 3).

Mark O-T

[John Fowler]

Rudolf Kempe also assembled his own Suite for his Dresden cycle of the "complete" orchestral works.

In 1944, Richard Strauss' American publisher Boosey & Hawkes commissioned Artur Rodzinski to assemble a 25 minute "Suite" from Der Rosenkavalier to be published as soon as World War II ended (Germany surrendered in May 1945).
This was all fairly hush-hush: Rodzinski was payed his fee, but is not mentioned on the score, which is entirely attributed to Strauss (who was happy to remain silent as long as he received the royalties).
In any case, Rodzinski jumped the gun and gave the world premiere with the New York Philharmonic in October 1944, which should have aroused suspicion.
It is also rumored that most of the work was done by Rodzinski's assistant Leonard Bernstein, who wasn't paid at all.

[gggg gggg]

(Youtube upload of Leinsdorf's recording)::

R. Strauss: Concert Suite from "Der Rosenkavalier"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 8:32:32 PM UTC-8, Russ (not Martha) wrote:

According to this recent review:

- His performance of the Concert Suite from Der Rosenkavalier is blessed with grace, lift, and lilt. Around the bloated bombast of the boorish Baron Von Ochs—pronounced "Ox" for good reason—and the wistfulness of the Marschallin, Nelsons weaves a spell that leaves us dizzy with delight. His music for the budding love between the young Octavian and Sophie immerses us in a universe where every sight, sound, and gesture is redolent with the perfume of wonder and innocence.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/recording-june-2022-richard-strauss-orchestral-works

[randy wolfgang]

Reading that review is like eating a whole cake Jay

[John Fowler]

There are four official official Rosenkavalier "Suites":
1) trv 227a: "Second Waltz Sequence" (music from Act 3) arranged by Strauss in 1911 (recorded by Strauss in 1927)
2) trv 227b: Film score arranged by R. Strauss in 1926 to accompany a silent film of Der Rosenkavalier (25 minute suite recorded by Strauss in 1926)
3) trv 227c "First Waltz Sequence" (music from Acts 1 and 2) arranged and recorded by Strauss in 1941 (published in 1944)
4) trv 227d: Rosenkavalier Suite published in 1945, attributed to the composer, but in reality arranged by Artur Rodzinski, who led the premiere with the New York Philharmonic in 1944 (during World War II, which should have been a clue).

trv 227a and 227c: www.amazon.com/Strauss-Conducts-Mozart-Beethoven-CD/dp/B00IERAFTC

trv 227b: www.amazon.com/Composers-Person-Conducts-Symphony-Rosenkavalier/dp/B00000DNRS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=GIFMCPFIQWR7&keywords=alpine+symphony+rosenkavalier&qid=1658431007&s=music&sprefix=alpine+symphony+rosenkavalier%2Cpopular%2C72&sr=1-2

trv 227d: www.amazon.com/Complete-Columbia-Album-Collection/dp/B08JV9JWTZ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27WX78A9W4V1U&keywords=rodzinski+new+york&qid=1658431421&s=music&sprefix=rodzinski+new+york%2Cpopular%2C102&sr=1-1

Several conductors (Kempe, Dorati, Ormandy, Schwarz) have created their own Suites.

[John Fowler]

The Two Waltz Sequences (227c + 227a) are the closest we have to an authentic Rosenkavalier Suite.
In addition to Strauss' own recordings, there are recordings of both by Jochum/Amsterdam Concertgebouw and Rickenbacher /Bamberg Symphony.
www.amazon.com/Richard-Strauss-15-Box-Set/dp/B08W7SPQH1/ref=sr_1_2?

www.amazon.com/Eugen-Jochum-Orchestral-Recordings-Philips/dp/B085HQFJLY/ref=sr_1_7?crid=173F0QFOCH6M4&keywords=jochum+complete&qid=1658432359&s=music&sprefix=jochum%2Cpopular%2C76&sr=1-7#customerReviews

crid=T8UMQEISE2FK&keywords=unknown+richard+strauss&qid=1658429285&sprefix=unknown+strauss%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-2

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 8:32:32 PM UTC-8, Russ (not Martha) wrote:

(Y. upload):

"DER ROSENKAVALIER WALTZES (Richard Strauss) - Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra/Felix Slatkin"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 8:32:32 PM UTC-8, Russ (not Martha) wrote:

(Recent Y. upload):

"Richard Strauss: Waltz “Der Rosenkavalier” (arr. Váša Přihoda) Dan Zhu, violin; Wenbin Jin, piano"