Why is Vladimir Horowitz buried in Toscanini's family tomb?

Roland Longbow

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Jul 20, 2022, 1:51:56 PM7/20/22

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I had a chance on Sunday to see the family tomb of Toscanini at Cimitero Monumentale di Milano. At the time, I did not know that the pianist Vladimir Horowitz is also buried there.

Could anyone comment on why this is the case? Just because Horowitz married Toscanini's daughter, Wanda?

Ad Musicam

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Jul 20, 2022, 2:28:58 PM7/20/22

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Le mercredi 20 juillet 2022 à 19:51:56 UTC+2, Roland Longbow a écrit :
> I had a chance on Sunday to see the family tomb of Toscanini at Cimitero Monumentale di Milano. At the time, I did not know that the pianist Vladimir Horowitz is also buried there.
>
> Could anyone comment on why this is the case? Just because Horowitz married Toscanini's daughter, Wanda?

Yes.
Of course, Horowitz was without family and without real home when he left URSS. When he married Toscanini's daugter it was a way to enter in Toscanini's family at a time he was in a total admiration of Toscanini. Of course reality of life after that was another mater. But I think the real complexity of the "filiation" Toscanini-Horowitz is still a mystery. On the subject you can only read the same banality...

John Fowler

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Jul 20, 2022, 4:33:08 PM7/20/22

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According to Wikipedia, the Cimitero Monumentale di Milano (established 1867) has a Jewish section which opened in 1872.
But the Toscanini family tomb is in the Catholic section, and that's where Vladimir Horowitz is buried.
On the same topic, Bruno Walter and George Szell are also buried in Catholic Cemeteries.
Bruno Walter was a late convert.
George Szell was actually a cradle Catholic, his father having converted before he was born.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/1199/vladimir-horowitz

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6002/bruno-walter

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6842150/george-szell

Horowitz left live recordings of the Tchaikovsky Concerto with all three conductors and the New York Philharmonic or New York's other orchestra, the NBC Symphony.

Frank Berger

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Jul 20, 2022, 5:00:29 PM7/20/22

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On 7/20/2022 4:33 PM, John Fowler wrote:
> According to Wikipedia, the Cimitero Monumentale di Milano (established 1867) has a Jewish section which opened in 1872.

According to traditional Jewish law, a Jew must be buried in a Jewish cemetery. This is important to Orthodox Jews and I would guess Conservative Jews as well. Still guessing, I doubt it matters to Reform Jews and I know for sure secular Jews (like Horowitz - he married a shicksa, got heaven's sake) would give a hoot. WHy should they.

I have seen graves of Jews in non-Jewish cemeteries surrounded by a low wall. Perhaps, according to some standards this creates a mini Jewish cemetery. I don't know who would follow this practice.

MELMOTH

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Jul 20, 2022, 5:44:59 PM7/20/22

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John Fowler a utilisé son clavier pour écrire :

> Horowitz left live recordings of the Tchaikovsky Concerto with all three
> conductors and the New York Philharmonic or New York's other orchestra, the
> NBC Symphony.

Yes...
And the most fabulous one is the one with *Szell*!...

Dan Koren

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Jul 20, 2022, 9:51:08 PM7/20/22

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Possibly. He also needed a conductor for after life concerts.

dk

Ad Musicam

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Jul 21, 2022, 2:16:01 AM7/21/22

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"Yes...
And the most fabulous one is the one with *Szell*!..."

Yes what a concert it is! ...but Szell was so horrible with him after the concert it was the start of major crisis and he stop to play piano in concert for 12 years....

Ricardo Jimenez

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Jul 21, 2022, 10:13:24 AM7/21/22

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The original question from Mr. "Longbow" was obviously trolling.

Frank Berger

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Jul 21, 2022, 10:19:30 AM7/21/22

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On 7/20/2022 1:51 PM, Roland Longbow wrote:
> I had a chance on Sunday to see the family tomb of Toscanini at Cimitero Monumentale di Milano. At the time, I did not know that the pianist Vladimir Horowitz is also buried there.
>
> Could anyone comment on why this is the case? Just because Horowitz married Toscanini's daughter, Wanda?

I thought he was buried in Grant's tomb.

Ad Musicam

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Jul 21, 2022, 10:51:08 AM7/21/22

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". He also needed a conductor for after life concerts."

You don't think he is now trying to conduct Mozart's 23 from the piano with Toscanini shooting at him from the trumpet of last jugement place, under the very soft smile of Giulini flying around in his angelic costume?

Roland Longbow

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Jul 21, 2022, 1:40:49 PM7/21/22

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I am just curious why Vladimir Horowitz is not in his own tomb.

Roland

Herman

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Jul 21, 2022, 2:06:29 PM7/21/22

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> >
> > >On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:51:56 AM UTC-7, Roland Longbow wrote:

> I am just curious why Vladimir Horowitz is not in his own tomb.
>

He'd be scared.

Frank Berger

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Jul 21, 2022, 2:23:32 PM7/21/22

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Apparently you haven't visited many cemeteries. It is common to see a stone with a family name on, say "Smith." Then in that plot are are buried Mr. and Mrs. Smith, some sons named Smith and their wives, some daughters, not longer named Smith and their husbands.

Ad Musicam

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Jul 21, 2022, 2:56:28 PM7/21/22

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"I am just curious why Vladimir Horowitz is not in his own tomb.

Roland"

In the state of mind and global fragilities of Horowitz, there was really no other way possible...

Owen

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Jul 21, 2022, 11:49:54 PM7/21/22

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He died before Wanda did, so, obviously she wanted them all to be with
her kinfolk.

I notice that in May 2004, vandals broke into the crypt and opened her
coffin, possibly searching for jewelry. I wouldn't put it past any of
you guys here!

-Owen

piano4tay

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Jul 23, 2022, 4:51:50 AM7/23/22

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If you have a prestigious family tomb, it makes sense to use it. When VH married Wanda it was lust for her family name that drove him, not her body;-) 'The Greatest Pianist' marrying into the family of 'The Greatest Conductor' in life, then being buried alongside each other in death. Their daughter's (Sonia) tragic death in 1974 would be an additional factor: as Toscanini's granddaughter it would make no sense not to bury her in the family tomb. Likewise Wanda, who in any case wouldn't want to be buried apart from Sonia, nor of course from VH, 'her life's work'. Interestingly, Wanda had to make a declaration that VH had 'converted to Catholicism' before he died, in order to gain entry to Cimiterio Monumentale, &, of course, Heaven...

AMN

Ad Musicam

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Jul 23, 2022, 5:23:30 AM7/23/22

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I don't know if someone is interrested about it, as not tataly related with Horowitz, but the Toscanini monument grave in itself is an interresting story.
Toscanini want the great Italian sculptor Leonardo Bistolfi to do it for his little son Claudio who died very young.
The principal part of the sculpture is a bas relief with the two parents body, nude and old, butted bow in sorrow above the boy's little grave. It exist a bronze plaque from Bistolfi of the subject, but very rare. I never found it, only a photo on internet.
Durring WWII, the grave was damaged by impact. But Toscanii don t want to restaure ot. It was part of the the life anf history of this monument. Horowitz knew verry well all about this...

Al Eisner

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Jul 24, 2022, 2:06:22 PM7/24/22

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On Thu, 21 Jul 2022, Ad Musicam wrote:

> ". He also needed a conductor for after life concerts."
>
> You don't think he is now trying to conduct Mozart's 23 from the piano with Toscanini shooting at him from the trumpet of last jugement place, under the very soft smile of Giulini flying around in his angelic costume?

Not unless his piano was buried with him.
--
Al Eisner