Best Furtwangler Recordings?
Jarl Sigurd
with 25% off all Classical CD's. I was thinking of getting
a few Wilhelm Furtwangler recordings to add to my collection.
Can anyone make any recommendations as to which would
be the best recordings to get?
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a symphony that I have composed, visit
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pavilion/4085
Tony Movshon
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> seeks:
> a few Wilhelm Furtwangler recordings to add to my collection.
The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
since he was rarely (though not never) at his best in the studio. This
leads, however, to the bewildering variety of available transfers of
Furtwangler material, many of which are of poor quality. As a general
although not infallible rule, material on Tahra, Preiser, Bayer and
DGG tends to be well transferred; M&A used to be dreadful, but some of
their recent issues are much better. Unfortunately, the DGG issues of
Furtwangler's recordings are typically kept out of print 90% of the
time except in Japan, thereby enhancing their scarcity value and
driving Furtwangler addicts wild with fury.
Among the Furtwangler performances that I find most remarkable are:
Beethoven symphonies 4, 5, 7, and 9, wartime recordings with the Berlin
Philharmonic (1942-3). These are performances of extraordinary
intensity and, indeed, ferocity; although his postwar recordings are
often in better sound, they typically lack the same intensity.
Beethoven Symphony 9, Lucerne Festival, 1954 (Tahra). Not as fierce as
the wartime 9th, but far better recorded and profoundly beautiful and
moving.
Brahms Symphony 1, North German Radio orchestra, live, 1951. A postwar
recording that is a stunning exception to the last statement of the
previous paragraph.
Brahms Symphony 4, Berlin PO, 1943. What I said about the Beethovens.
Bruckner Symphony No. 8, Berlin Philharmonic, 1949 (Testament is the
only decent transfer available). A magisterial performance, finally
restored to circulation in decent sound.
Bruckner Symphony No. 9, Vienna Philharmonic, 1944 (DG, oop). Perhaps
the best document of Furtwangler's dramatic and exciting way with
Bruckner.
Wagner - Tristan and Isolde - Flagstad, Suthaus, Philharmonia (EMI
studio). One of the greatest recordings of anything ever made, an
exception to the "no studio" rule.
Haydn Symphony No. 88 / Schubert Symphony No. 9 (DGG studio
recordings, currently available in the "Originals" series as a
result of an oversight by the DGG Furtwangler deletion police). Some
prefer the intensity of the 1942 live Schubert 9, but I find both of
these treasurable and in excellent sound.
Others will have other favorites, but these all come up often in many
threads on this subject.
The final piece of advice is to go to dejanews and read anything Henry
Fogel has to say about this topic.
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
samir ghiocel golescu
On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Tony Movshon wrote:
>
> "Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> seeks:
> > a few Wilhelm Furtwangler recordings to add to my collection.
>
> The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
[long and excellent posting snipped]
With your good knowledge and (if I may deduct, from your choices)
understanding of Wilhelm Furtwangler's unique art, I find almost
impossible for you to remain, for the rest of your life, impenetrable to
the art of Wilhelm's older brother (you know who I mean). This is not a
superiority-nourished sentence from my part, just that the art of the two
great conductors has so much in common (beyond the obvious differences
that exist between them) that, sooner or later, you will be almost bond to
respond better to "the other". May I be right, at least once! (-:
regards,
SG
HenryFogel
>"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> seeks:
>> a few Wilhelm Furtwangler recordings to add to my collection.
>
>The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
I think Tony's list is a superb basic Furtwangler list. I might add the
Schumann 4th (DG Studio recording - another exception to the "live is better"
rule), if you can find it, coupled with anything.
Then, the question is whether you like Wagner operas. I agree with Tony that
the basic Wagner recording of Furtwangler is the EMI Tristan -- but after that
one should have one of his live Rings. The Music & Arts release of the 1950
Scala Ring is a very good transfer. The 1953 Rome Radio performances are in
better sound on EMI, and are more finished but slightly less exciting
performances. One or the other should find a place in any Furtwangler
collection -- perhaps price can be a determinant.
Henry Fogel
Tony Movshon
henry...@aol.com (HenryFogel) writes:
> I think Tony's list is a superb basic Furtwangler list. I might add the
> Schumann 4th (DG Studio recording - another exception to the "live is better"
> rule), if you can find it, coupled with anything.
The DGG Schumann 4 is surely one of the greatest of all Furtwangler
performances, and it is one that is often admired even by people who
generally dislike Furtwangler. I omitted it only because in its current
DGG Originals incarnation it is part of a two-disc set coupled with
Furtwangler's own 2nd symphony, which I think is largely indigestible
for all but die-hard WF fanatics.
Used copies of its earlier release coupled with the Haydn 88 should be
snapped up without hesitation. The sound is very similar on both.
--
Tony Movshon
>
> understanding of Wilhelm Furtwangler's unique art, I find almost
> impossible for you to remain, for the rest of your life, impenetrable to
> the art of Wilhelm's older brother (you know who I mean). This is not a
> superiority-nourished sentence from my part, just that the art of the two
> great conductors has so much in common (beyond the obvious differences
> that exist between them) that, sooner or later, you will be almost bond to
> respond better to "the other". May I be right, at least once! (-:
Frankly, I also find it curious that I respond so positively to
Furtwangler and (often) so negatively to Mengelberg. As you say, there
are many similarities of style between them, and they use many of the
same strong expressive devices in their intepretations.
I think the simplest way to describe my reaction is to say that
typically I find Furtwangler's use of expressive devices to be
seamlessly integrated within his chosen interpetation, and to stem
naturally from it. With Mengelberg at his best, my response is similar.
But with Mengelberg I find myself too often surprised or dismayed by the
application of what may be a similar device in a way that seems somehow
outside the basic interpretation. Too often I find myself thinking: why
on earth did Mengelberg do *that* thing *then*?
And please note, I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just trying
(inadequately and in an overly general way) to describe my responses to
these two conductors.
TransfrGuy
>The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
>since he was rarely (though not never) at his best in the studio.
I agree with this generally; however, one instance where the studio recording
is preferable, I think, is his Tchaikovsky "Pathetique." The 1938 studio
recording has it over the 1951 Cairo broadcast, and is indeed one of the
greatest WF recordings of all.
Mark Obert-Thorn
samir ghiocel golescu
Quite so, and furthermore recorded with the 1938 "sub-standard" BPO,
that plays as well as in a wonderful dream!!!
regards,
SG
HenryFogel
>Frankly, I also find it curious that I respond so positively to
>Furtwangler and (often) so negatively to Mengelberg. As you say, there
>are many similarities of style between them, and they use many of the
>same strong expressive devices in their intepretations.
>
>I think the simplest way to describe my reaction is to say that
>typically I find Furtwangler's use of expressive devices to be
>seamlessly integrated within his chosen interpetation, and to stem
>naturally from it. With Mengelberg at his best, my response is similar.
>But with Mengelberg I find myself too often surprised or dismayed by the
>application of what may be a similar device in a way that seems somehow
>outside the basic interpretation. Too often I find myself thinking: why
>on earth did Mengelberg do *that* thing *then*?
>
>And please note, I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just trying
>(inadequately and in an overly general way) to describe my responses to
>these two conductors.
>
>--
>Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
>Center for Neural Science New York University
>
Although I admire Mengelberg's conducting a great deal more than you do, Tony,
I can absolutely comprehend this kind of reaction. Mengelberg's interpretive
interventions are certainly stronger, more willful, and less seamless than
Furtwangler's. Some listeners find themselves comfortable with that most of
the time, and others will not. Even I have moments with Mengelberg (the
drastic ritardendo at the end of the Beethoven 9th) that I find inexplicable
and anti-musical; while there are moments in Furtwangler I might disagree with
-- I have yet to encounter one that I would call anti-musical.
For me the rhapsodic qualities, the remarkable intensity, the combination of
lyrical beauty and rhythmic vitality, the excellence of orchestral execution
and the richness and vibrancty of orchestral color (audible even in the old
recordings) all combine to make Mengelberg's work very satisfying to me. But
it is easy to see how some would react negatively to what were surely excesses,
by any standards.
I don't know what you have heard of Mengelberg? Some of the best would be:
Strauss Heldenleben (New York Phil)
Mahler 4th (yes, there are excesses
aplenty, but they could not seem
more right)
Tchaikovsky last 3 symphonies
Wagner Lohengrin Prelude - one of
great, glowing recordings (get the
transfer on Pearl 9018)
Franck Psyche and Eros (Biddulph)
In fact, Biddulph WHL 023 is a very good disc to get - The Franck Symphony as
well as Psyche and Eros along with fine Berlioz and Debussy performances that
highlight Mengelberg's remarkable skill in balancing voices and adjusting
orchestral color.
Henry Fogel
The Melsons
Phil, not the VPO. It was recorded at the Beethovenhalle in Berlin,
according to the notes of my M&A copy.
Mark Melson
On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:42:55 GMT, to...@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
wrote:
>
>"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> seeks:
>> a few Wilhelm Furtwangler recordings to add to my collection.
>
>The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
Marc Perman
To the above list I would only add Biddulph 057 (Brahms 2 and 4, in
great MO-T transfers) and Biddulph 024 (Music for Strings, most
notably the Tchaikovsky Serenade).
Marc Perman
Tony Movshon
ame...@ix.netcom.com (The Melsons) writes:
> The truly fabulous Bruckner 9 referred to below is with the Berlin
> Phil, not the VPO. It was recorded at the Beethovenhalle in Berlin,
> according to the notes of my M&A copy.
Quite right. I had confused it with the 8th, done 10 days later with the
VPO.
--
Donald C. Patterson
TransfrGuy wrote:
> On 30 Dec 1999, Tony Movshon wrote:
>
> >The best way to approach Furtwangler's art is through live recordings,
> >since he was rarely (though not never) at his best in the studio.
>
> I agree with this generally; however, one instance where the studio recording
> is preferable, I think, is his Tchaikovsky "Pathetique." The 1938 studio
> recording has it over the 1951 Cairo broadcast, and is indeed one of the
> greatest WF recordings of all.
>
...and sounding best in MOT's transfer for Biddulph.
(Just my opinion, there. I have no affiliation with Mark
or Biddulph.)
--
Don Patterson
* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@dclink.com
* Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band
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