Re: COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER

[John Fowler]

BAD NEWS:
re: the Naxos Box
The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
Instead it contains:
"Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
STUPID.
Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

Thats a deal breaker for me

[Dana John Hill]

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 10:17:02 AM UTC-4, John Fowler wrote:

Not including any sort of texts, even on CD-ROM is inexplicably short sighted for a label going through the trouble of organizing a large collection like this. Even if it raised the cost by five dollars, most people would be grateful for it.

I have the older DG Beethoven Edition (the one with the clear acrylic shelf and hardcover book), which does include extensive documentation and texts with translations. But that was originally priced at over $1,000. At under $300, the new DG set seems like a bargain, especially given the documentation, though I doubt there are many reading this group who wouldn't experience a great deal of duplication by purchasing it.

I'm actually starting to wonder whether I should sell my earlier set and get the new one, and pocket some money thereby.

Dana

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

I don't mind the duplicates of the important works and like the blu rays! I think I am going for the DG - deluxe seems the way to go

[John Fowler]

Of course, we are still waiting to figure out which label is the "most complete".

[joey7c...@yahoo.com]

I’ll be going for the Naxos box, only because of the large duplications for me with the other boxes -including the blu-rays.

[wade...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 10:26:13 AM UTC-7, John Fowler wrote:
> I am currently posting messages on three forums devoted to upcoming Complete Beethoven boxes.
> Instead of posting to three different forums, I am creating a new forum devoted to all three boxes.
> First post:
>
> COMPLETE BEETHOVEN: NAXOS vs DG vs. WARNER (updated September 25)
>
> NAXOS BOX (October 25) - I know which works are in this box but Naxos stubbornly refuses to identify the performers of each work.
> One photo shows a booklet, and what looks like a CD-ROM in a separate sleeve.
> If the CD-ROM contains texts for the vocal works, I hope Naxos remembered the English translations (face it - English is the International Language).
> Nothing dumber than providing the text only in the language that’s being sung - unless you are into Karaoke!
>
> DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
> Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
> The DG box has the best documentation:
> --- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
> --- it includes texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG. - from DG’s website: “Nine softcover books with track listings, notes and sung texts (English/Deutsch).
>
> WARNER BOX (November 29) - comes with an attractive booklet, CDs in jackets with period paintings on the front, but no texts or translations for vocal works.
>
> DG = 102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
> Warner = 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
> -Naxos = 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/ludwig-van-beethoven-beethoven-complete-edition/hnum/9449475
>
> MISSING WORKS:
> This part is a work in progress. Please let me know if you find any additional missing works.
> --- Leonore - opera Op.72a (first version, 1805) is missing from the DG box, which uses John Eliot Gardiner’s conflated version of 1805, 1806 and even Fidelio (1814).
> --- Leonore - opera Op.72b (second version, 1806) is missing from all three boxes.
> --- Quartet Op.130, revised finale: Warner lists only the original finale (Grosse fuge). This is probably a typo.
>
> MAJOR WORKS:
> For some recordings, I have made an educated guess (indicated by ?????)
>
> SYMPHONIES:
> --- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
> --- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962, BLU-RAY Audio)
> --- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD Video)
> --- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
> --- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe
> --- NX complete:
> OVERTURES:
> --- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
> --- WA complete: conducted by Barenboim, Dausgaard, Klemperer, Muti
> --- NX complete: Skrowaczewski ?????
> CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
> --- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
> --- WA: Harnoncourt
> --- NX: Segerstam ?????
> EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
> --- DG: Abbado
> --- WA: Masur
> --- NX:
> WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
> --- DG: Karajan
> --- WA: Dausgaard
> --- NX:
>
> MASS Op.86:
> --- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
> --- WA: Giulini
> --- NX:
> MISSA SOLEMNIS:
> --- DG: Karajan (1966) - and Gardiner (period instruments)
> --- WA: Klemperer
> --- NX:
> CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
> --- DG: Klee
> --- WA: Wangenheim
> --- NX: Segerstam ?????
> FIDELIO (1814 final version)
> --- DG: Abbado - and Bernstein (DVD Video)
> --- WA: Klemperer
> --- NX:
> LEONORE (1805 & 1806 versions of Fidelio)
> --- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - conductor’s hybrid of 1805, 1806 and even 1814 versions
> --- WA: Blomstedt - 1805 version
> --- NX: - 1805 version
>
> CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
> --- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
> --- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink
> --- NX:
> CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
> --- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
> --- WA: Perlman/Giulini
> --- NX:
> CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
> --- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
> --- WA: Duchable/Menuhin
> --- NX:
> CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
> --- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
> --- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma
> --- NX:
> FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
> --- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and Pollini/Abbado
> --- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt
> --- NX:
> ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
> --- DG: Mutter/Masur - and Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
> --- WA: Perlman/Barenboim
> --- NX:
>
> PIANO SONATAS:
> --- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY Audio)
> --- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
> --- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich
> --- NX complete:
> CELLO SONATAS:
> --- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
> --- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
> --- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder
> --- NX complete:
> VIOLIN SONATAS:
> --- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
> --- WA complete: Capucon/Braley
> --- NX complete:
>
> PIANO TRIOS:
> --- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio - Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) and Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) - Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
> --- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre
> --- NX complete:
> STRING TRIOS:
> --- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
> --- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell
> --- NX complete:
> STRING QUARTETS:
> --- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY Audio)
> --- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
> --- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
> --- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
> --- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they play the Grosse fuge as the final movement of Op.130 (later published as Op.133) - but not the revised finale. This may be a typo)
> --- NX complete:

for Naxos you are going to get basically competent but "mystery meat" performances. For the price, DG should include a disc or downloadable PDF of all documentation and texts. Why is DG including Hollywood Quartet recordings? they were Capitol artists and would belong to Warner now.

[John Fowler]

DG licensed some other company's recordings for inclusion in "Historical Performances" (discs 102-113)
Hollywood Quartet and Artur Schnabel from EMI
Busch Quartet from Sony

[Al Eisner]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019, wade...@hotmail.com wrote:

....

> for Naxos you are going to get basically competent but "mystery meat" performances. For the price, DG should include a disc or downloadable PDF of all documentation and texts. Why is DG including Hollywood Quartet recordings? they were Capitol artists and would belong to Warner now.

You can find at least a partial list of artists (but not associated with
works) at https://www.naxos.de/neuheiten/0747313025039/
--
Al Eisner

[Andrew Clarke]

Includes people like Edda Moser as well as Naxos stalwarts like Jeno Jando, Bela Drahos, the Eszterhazy Sinfonia, the Kodaly Quartet, the Capella Istropolitana (i.e. the CSSR Radio Orchestra (Bratislava) minus the secret police), Maria Kliegel, Stefan Vladar, etc.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[John Fowler]

Naxos has some new Beethoven recordings by Lief Segerstam and the Turku (Finland) Philharmonic:
Creatures of Prometheus
Egmont incidental music
Christ on the Mount of Olives

[richard...@gmail.com]

Did they license the EMI Busch Quartet recordings too? It would be nice to get them all in one place at last. I have both series on LP.

[John Fowler]

> Did they license the EMI Busch Quartet recordings too? It would be nice to get them all in one place at last. I have both series on LP.

No. Just one recording each from Busch, Schnabel and the Hollywood Quartet. A sampling.

[Mark Zimmer]

Naxos also has a recent release of the piano version of The Creatures of Prometheus, Hess 90, played by Warren Lee.

[John Fowler]

New John Eliot Gardiner Beethoven box from Deutsche Grammophon:
https://www.amazon.com/Gardiner-Complete-Beethoven-15-CD/dp/B07VDMP7RR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2BEUMT3SZYZNC&keywords=gardiner+beethoven&qid=1570476110&sprefix=gardiner+beethoven%2Caps%2C184&sr=8-1
All of Gardiner's Beethoven recordings for DG.
15 CDs.
Most of these will also be in the DG New Complete Edition, but three recordings and a bonus disc will not be in the Complete Edition:
-- Piano Concerti 3 & 5 with Robert Levin (their recordings of 1,2,4, the Rondo and Choral Fantasy are in the Complete Edition
-- Violin Concerto with Victoria Mullova
-- bonus disc: Analysis of the Symphonies by Gardiner

Of course, this is assuming that the list on HMV.co.jp is accurate:
https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427

[amh]

performer info for the Naxos box: https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250

[John Fowler]

On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 8:21:53 AM UTC-5, amh wrote:
> performer info for the Naxos box: https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250

Thanks for this heads-up.
Biggest disappointment: Naxos has an interesting new set of Beethoven Symphonies from Adam Fischer and the Danish Chamber Orchestra, but they chose their old Bela Drahos / Nicolas Esterhazy Sinfonia set.

Biggest surprise: They have the same performance of Leonore (1805 version) as the Warner box: Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskapelle

[John Fowler]

Archive Music will have the most detailed contents list IF THEY EVER GET PAST DISC 10:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2292995#details

[John Fowler]

COMPLETE BEETHOVEN (updated October 12) - a forum devoted to three competing boxes.

DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.

102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693

Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
The DG box has the best documentation:
--- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.

--- Texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG.

WARNER BOX (November 29) - 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 - No texts or translations for vocal works.

NAXOS BOX (November 1) - 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250 - No texts or translations for vocal works.

MISSING WORKS:
This part is a work in progress. Please let me know if you find additional missing works.

--- Leonore - opera Op.72a (first version, 1805) is missing from the DG box, which uses John Eliot Gardiner’s conflated version of 1805, 1806 and even Fidelio (1814).
--- Leonore - opera Op.72b (second version, 1806) is missing from all three boxes.
--- Quartet Op.130, revised finale: Warner lists only the original finale (Grosse fuge). This is probably a typo.

MAJOR WORKS:

SYMPHONIES:
--- DG complete: Gardiner, Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique (period instruments)
--- DG complete: Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic (1962, BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Symphonies 4 & 7: Carlos Kleiber, Amsterdam Concertgebouw (DVD Video)
--- DG bonus: 23 recordings by 14 conductors: Abbado, Bernstein, Bohm, Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Giulini, Karajan (1976), Carlos Kleiber, Erich Kleiber (mono), Monteux, Nelsons, Scherchen (mono), Schmidt-Isserstedt
--- WA complete: Harnoncourt, Chamber Orchestra of Europe

--- NX complete: Drahos, Nicolas Esterhazy Sinfonietta

OVERTURES:
--- DG complete: conducted by Abbado, Busch (mono), Chailly, Fricsay, Furtwangler (mono), Gardiner (period instruments), Klee, Klemperer (mono), Szell
--- WA complete: conducted by Barenboim, Dausgaard, Klemperer, Muti

--- NX complete: conducted by Drahos, Gunzenhauser, Segerstam, Skrowaczewski

CREATURES OF PROMETHEUS:
--- DG: Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
--- WA: Harnoncourt

--- NX: Segerstam + Beethoven’s transcription for solo piano

EGMONT INCIDENTAL MUSIC:
--- DG: Abbado
--- WA: Masur

--- NX: Segerstam

WELLINGTON’S VICTORY:
--- DG: Karajan
--- WA: Dausgaard

--- NX: Lenárd + Beethoven’s transcription for solo piano

MASS Op.86:
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Giulini

--- NX: Segerstam

MISSA SOLEMNIS:
--- DG: Karajan (1966) - and Gardiner (period instruments)
--- WA: Klemperer

--- NX: Schermerhorn

CHRIST ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES:
--- DG: Klee
--- WA: Wangenheim
--- NX: Segerstam

FIDELIO (1814 final version)
--- DG: Abbado - and Bernstein (DVD Video)
--- WA: Klemperer

--- NX: Halász

LEONORE (1805 & 1806 versions of Fidelio)
--- DG: Gardiner (period instruments) - conductor’s hybrid of 1805, 1806 and even 1814 versions
--- WA: Blomstedt - 1805 version

--- NX: Blomstedt - 1805 version

CONCERTI (5) for PIANO:
--- DG complete: 15 recordings by 10 pianists: Argerich, Arrau, Brendel, Buchbinder, A. Fischer, Gulda, Kempff, Levin (period instruments), Pollini, Zimerman
--- WA complete: Schiff/Haitink

--- NX: Vladar/Wordsworth

CONCERTO for VIOLIN:
--- DG: four recordings: Mutter/Karajan -- Repin/Muti -- Schneiderhan/Jochum -- Zehetmair/Bruggen (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Giulini

--- NX: Nishizaki/Jean

CONCERTO for VIOLIN arranged for PIANO:
--- DG: Barenboim, piano & cond.
--- WA: Duchable/Menuhin

--- NX: Jandó/ Drahos

CONCERTO for PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO:
--- DG: Chung Trio/Chung cond.
--- WA: Barenboim piano & cond, Perlman, Ma

--- NX: Jandó, Dong-Suk Kang, Kliegel/ Drahos

FANTASY FOR PIANO, CHORUS & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Levin/Gardiner (period instruments) - and Pollini/Abbado
--- WA: Aimard/Harnoncourt

--- NX: McCawley/Wetton

ROMANCES (2) for VIOLIN & ORCHESTRA:
--- DG: Mutter/Masur - and Zehetmair/Bruggen in Romance No.2 only (period instruments)
--- WA: Perlman/Barenboim

--- NX: Nishizaki/Jean

PIANO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Wilhelm Kempff (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: 57 recordings by 23 pianists: Arrau, Ashkenazy, Backhaus, Brendel, Freire, Gilels, Grimaud, Gulda, Haskil (mono), Kempff (mono), Kissin, Kocsis, Kovacevich, Lupu, Michelangeli, Perahia, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Rubin (fortepiano), Schnabel (mono), Serkin, Uchida
--- WA complete: Stephen Kovacevich

--- NX complete: Jeno Jando

CELLO SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Maisky/Argerich
--- DG bonus: Fournier/Kempff (3 & 5)
--- WA complete: Starker/Buchbinder

--- NX complete: Kliegel/Jando

VIOLIN SONATAS:
--- DG complete: Kremer/Argerich (1-4) -- Perlman/Ashkenazy (5,6) -- Mutter/Orkis (7,9) -- Dumay/Pires (8-10) -- Menuhin/Kempff (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Capucon/Braley

--- NX complete: Nishizaki/Jando

PIANO TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Beaux Arts Trio -- Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich (mono) and Previn/Mullova/Schiff (Archduke Trio) -- Kempff/Szeryng/Fournier (variations etc.)
--- WA complete: Barenboim/Zukerman/DuPre
--- NX complete: Xyrion Trio

STRING TRIOS:
--- DG complete: Mutter/Giuranna/Rostropovich
--- WA complete: Perlman/Zukerman/Harrell

--- NX complete: Falvay, Fejervari, Eder

STRING QUARTETS:
--- DG complete: Amadeus Quartet (BLU-RAY Audio)
--- DG bonus: Emerson Quartet (early & middle quartets)
--- DG bonus: Takacs Quartet & Hagen Quartet (late quartets)
--- DG bonus: assorted quartets by Busch Quartet (mono), Hollywood Quartet (mono), Lindsay Quartet, Quartetto Italiano
--- WA complete: Artemis Quartet (they play the Grosse fuge as the final movement of Op.130 (later published as Op.133) - but not the revised finale. This may be a typo)

--- NX complete: Kodaly Quartet

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019, John Fowler wrote:

> COMPLETE BEETHOVEN (updated October 12) - a forum devoted to three competing boxes.
>
> DG BOX (November 1) - costs more than Naxos and Warner combined.
> 102 CDs (with duplications) = 240 Euros (includes 16 historical CDs + 3 Blu-ray Audio discs + 2 DVDs) https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Beethoven-1770-1827_000000000034571/item_Beethoven-The-New-Complete-Edition-118CD-2DVD-3blu-ray-Audio-Limited_10112427 Also, a new video: https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/489641671619693/?v=489641671619693
> Padded with multiple performances of the major works. Five different performances of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alone: Bernstein, Fricsay, Gardiner, and Karajan (1962 and 1976).
> The DG box has the best documentation:
> --- it comes with a really nice hardcover book in addition to nine separate booklets.
> --- Texts and English translations for the vocal works. BIG PLUS FOR DG.
>
> WARNER BOX (November 29) - 80 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X7D9W6N/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 - No texts or translations for vocal works.
>
> NAXOS BOX (November 1) - 90 CDs = 100 Euros https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.500250 - No texts or translations for vocal works.

[snipped]

Even though I'm not in the market for a complete Beethoven set -- I prefer
to pick and choose performances, and I don't share the conpleteness urge
(I almost said "fetish") of many here -- but I find looking at your
summaries fascinating, and a valuable service to rmcr. If I were in
the market, I would surely choose the DG, not just for the documentation,
but because I consider the multiple performances of major works and the
historical disks big pluses. DG really seems to have done things right.
As for the cost, well, it is Beethoven! Thanks for your efforts.
--
Al Eisner

[John Fowler]

PROBLEM WITH LEONORE
Beethoven composed three versions of the same opera, with four different overtures:
--- 1805 Version 1: Leonore Op.72a, opens with Leonore Overture No.2 (chronologically this should be called Leonore Overture No.1, but the order was screwed up by early musicologists)
--- 1806 Version 2: Leonore Op.72b, opens with Leonore Overture No.3 (chronologically this should be called Leonore Overture No.2)
--- 1807 Version 3: Beethoven planned a third version of Leonore, but only got as far as a new overture, published posthumously as “Leonore Overture No.1” with the unlikely opus number of Op.138 (chronologically this should have been called Leonore Overture No.3 Op.72c)
--- 1814 Version 4: Fidelio Op.72, opens with the Fidelio Overture.
All three boxes have Fidelio and the four overtures.
--- but the DG box lacks both versions of Leonore. Instead, John Eliot Gardner prepared a conflated version of the 1805 and 1806 Leonores (with some 1814 Fidelio thrown in for good measure). This is a totally unsatisfactory solution for a scholarly edition of Beethoven’s works.
--- Warner and Naxos have the same (excellent) recording of the first, 1805 Leonore conducted by Herbert Blomstedt, but neither box includes the text or translation. To get them you need the original Berlin Classics CD release, which I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-Original-Version-Fidelio/dp/B0000035N6/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=beethoven+leonore+blomstedt&qid=1570985988&s=music&sr=1-2 (avoid the Brilliant Classics re-release).
--- The second, 1806 version of Leonore is absent from all three boxes, but it has been recorded - by the other DG (Dabringhaus und Grim): https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Leonore-version-Ludwig-van/dp/B00000G4MW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=beethoven+leonore&qid=1568638057&s=music&sr=1-1 (with text and translation). The 1806 version has serious differences from the 1805 version and the omission is a serious black mark against all three companies.

[John Fowler]

CORRECTION: NAXOS WILL PROVIDE SOME TEXTS AND TRANSLATIONS ON THE INTERNET
Despite their response to my e-mail, it now appears that Naxos will provide texts and translations on the internet for at least some of this music.

https://www.naxos.com/ECard/2019/B2C/Beethoven250/
click on the green "tracklists" button at the top of the page.

Disc 89 has texts and translations:
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573882&utm_source=Naxos_News&utm_medium=ecard&utm_content=Tracks&utm_campaign=BeethovenCompleteEdition-Ecard102019

Disc 85 does not:
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=C10343-45&utm_source=Naxos_News&utm_medium=ecard&utm_content=Tracks&utm_campaign=BeethovenCompleteEdition-Ecard102019

[Randy Lane]

Don't care for the Leonore recordings in any of the boxes?

Then perhaps supplement with:

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07TJKC2DT/

[Mark Zimmer]

Well that's very interesting. I can't find any information about it on Harmonia Mundi's website, but the HM News blurb on Amazon seems to indicate it's the 1805 version.

[John Fowler]

BEETHOVEN RARITIES ON DG AND NAXOS: CORRECTIONS ARE WELCOME!

Seventy items: 38 exclusive to DG, 20 exclusive to Naxos. 12 common to both.
DG discs 99-101: These items were not in the previous DG Beethoven box, issued on CD 25 years ago.
Not entirely new, many of these “rarities” first appeared ten years ago on the now defunct Monmmouth Classics CD label.

EXCLUSIVE TO DG:
WoO 62a: Andante maestoso in C “Letzter musikalischer Gedanke” for piano [DG 99]
WoO 62b: Andante maestoso in C major "Letzter musikalischer Gedanke" for String Quintet [DG 100]
WoO 200: “O Hoffnung” four bar theme as teaching exercise for Archduke Rudolph [DG 99]
WoO 209: Minuet in A Flat Major with Trio in A Minor for piano [DG 99]
WoO 210: Allegretto in b minor for String Quartet [DG 100]
WoO 211: Andante in C Major for piano [DG 99]
WoO Anh.4: Flute Sonata in B-Flat Major [DG 101]
WoO Anh.5, No.1: Sonatina in G Major for Piano [DG 101]
WoO Anh.5, No.2: Sonatina in F Major for Piano [DG 101]
WoO Anh.10: Eight Variations for Piano on "Ich hab' ein kleines Hüttchen nur" for Piano [DG 101]
WoO UnV 8: Duo for Violin and Cello in E-Flat Major - fragment [DG 100]
WoO UnV 12: Piano Sonata "quasi una Fantasia" in D major for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 36: String Quartet arrangement of the fugue from the Overture to Handel's Solomon [DG 100]
Hess 46 (UnV 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 58: Piano exercise in B flat major /minor for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 59: Piano Piece in C major for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 70: Adagio ma non molto in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 71: Molto Adagio in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 72: Theme and Variation in A Major for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 96: Symphony No. 7 - arr. for piano [DG 99]
Hess 236: Two-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 237: Three-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 238: Six Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 239: No.2,3: Chorale Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 243: Double Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 244: Triple Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 245: Fugue in d minor for String Quartet - fragment [DG 101]
Hess 331b: Minuet in B-Flat Major for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 332: Pastorella for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 333: Menuetto - Scherzo for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 334: Allegro in A Major for String Quartet [DG 100]
Hess Anh.57: Dona nobis pacem - Fugue for Four Voices arr. Piano [DG 99]
Kafka folio 41: Piano Piece in A major [DG disc 99]
Kafka folio 47v: Allegretto in A minor /major for Piano [DG 99]
Kafka folio 47v, staves 5-8: Piano Piece in C major [DG 99]
Kafka folio 160r: Piano Piece in A major [DG 99]
Kullak folio 51/52: Piece in F Minor for piano [DG 99]
Op.107: Variationen über 10 Volksweisen No.1,3,4,6,7,9 for Violin and Piano [DG 100]

EXCLUSIVE TO NAXOS:
WoO 126: Opferlied, sketch for voice and piano (1796) [Naxos disc 88]
WoO 169: “Ich küsse Sie” for voice and choir (1816) [Naxos 90]
WoO 170: “Ars longa, vita brevis” for choir (1815/16) [Naxos 90]
WoO 178: “Signor Abate!” for choir and piano (c. 1820) [Naxos 90]
WoO 201: “Ich bin bereit! Amen” for choir (after 1818) [Naxos 90]
WoO 221: “Herr Graf, ich komme zu fragen” for choir and piano (c. 1796-1797) [Naxos 90]
Hess 60: Sketch in A major for Piano (1818) [Naxos 32]
Hess 324: Melody in C minor for Piano (1802) [Naxos 34]
Hess 330: March in C minor for Piano (1804) [Naxos 32]
Hess 331a: Minuett in B flat major for Piano (1799) [Naxos 17]
Bia. 191: Intermezzo for Sonata in C minor, possible sketches for Piano Sonata No.5 or No.8 (1798-99) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 268: Fragment in A major producing effect of Horns, for piano (1793) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 272: Andante in B flat major for piano (1793) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 273: Sketch in F major for piano (1793) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 276: Sketches in C major and G major for piano (c.1800), Bia. 276 [Naxos 32]
Bia. 318: Sketch for Piano Sonata in A minor (1802) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 622: Pastorella in C major for Piano (1815) [Naxos 34]
Bia. 637: Piano Trio in F minor (1816) [Naxos 42]
Op.48, No.3: song “Vom Tode” (first version, 1798-99) [Naxos 88]
Op.113: The Ruins of Athens, version with narration (1811) [Naxos 72]

COMMON TO DG AND NAXOS:
WoO 59b: Bagatelle in A minor "Für Elise" for piano (second version, 1822) [DG disc 99 or Naxos disc 14]
WoO 212: Anglaise in D Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 213: Four Bagatelles for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 216a: Bagatelle in C Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 216b: Bagatelle in Eb Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 217: Minuet in F Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 218: Minuet in C Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 15]
WoO 219: Waltz in C Minor for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
Hess 57: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
Hess 97: Wellingtons Sieg oder die Schlacht bei Vittoria - arr. for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 67: Two German Dances in F major /minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 16]
Op.9, No.1 String Trio, Scherzo with Alternative Trio [DG disc 100 or Naxos disc 45]

[Mark Zimmer]

Thanks for the rundown, John! I'm puzzled by the reference to "Monmmouth Classics CD label." Do you mean Monument Classics (which is indeed the source for a number of the DG performances), or am I missing a label completely?

I wish someone had done the "dona nobis pacem" fugue with a choir or even OVPP, but piano is better than nothing.

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

Also, can you please keep an eye out for either of the lieder Erlkönig WoO 131 and Liebe (Ich wiege dich in meinem Arm) Hess 137 on any of these sets?

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

On Saturday, October 19, 2019 at 8:44:54 AM UTC-5, John Fowler wrote:

John, may we include your breakdown of the rarities on the Unheard Beethoven page regarding these boxes?

Mark

[John Fowler]

YES - but this list was based solely on the information posted on their websites. Sometimes the finished product is different. (for instance it's hard to believe that Warner overlooked the revised final movement of the Quartet Op.130, though only the first finale (Grosse fuge) is listed on their website).

[Mark Zimmer]

Thank you, yes, understood. We will note that accordingly. Mark

[John Fowler]

TWO OPUS NUMBERS THAT GET NO RESPECT:
--- Op.42: Notturno in D major for Viola and Piano: MISSING FROM DG AND NAXOS
--- Op.64: Sonata for Cello and Piano in E-flat major MISSING FROM DG AND WARNER

The DG box, which otherwise is the most attractive, is missing two works published during Beethoven’s lifetime:
The Op.42 Notturno for Viola and Piano is an arrangement of the Op.8 Serenade for Violin, Viola and Cello.
The Op.64: Sonata for Cello and Piano in E-flat major is an arrangement of the Op.3 String Trio.

Most scholars think the arrangements were not the work of Beethoven, but rather by two of his students.
DG uses this as an excuse to omit them (they were also missing from DG’s old Beethoven Edition).
BUT Beethoven sent them to his publisher and accepted payment, so they at least had his approval.
Warner (but not Naxos) includes the Op.42 Notturno in a performance by violist Gérard Caussé and François-René Duchâble.
Naxos (but not Warner) includes the Op.64 Cello Sonata in a performance by Maria Klegel and Nina Tichman.
I think any “Complete” Beethoven Edition should include all the opus numbers published during his lifetime.

Ps. Monument Classics, not Monmmouth Classics (Monmmouth is a city in New Jerssey, site of a famous battle during the American Revollution)

[Mark Zimmer]

As far as I can tell, Naxos and DG seem to omit op.41, the Serenade for Flute (arranged from the op.25 Serenade for flute, violin and viola) from their boxes as well. Both opp.41 and 42 were represented by Beethoven to his publisher as being corrected by himself, so they're at least done with his approval and possibly his participation, and probably should be included in a "complete" set. Both were apparently the primary work of F.X. Kleinheinz (1765-1832).

The op.63 piano trio (arranged from the string quintet op.4, which is itself a recomposition of the Wind Octet op.103) is a much sketchier production, and may well have little or nothing to do with Beethoven. BUT he did allow his publishers to use that opus number for it, without assigning it to something else himself, so who knows whether it might actually fall into the same class as opp.41 and 42.

Markevich asserted many years ago that he had found a copy of the cello sonata op.64 that had Beethoven's corrections, which would make it similar in standing to opp.41 and 42, but I've never seen any evidence of that or any subsequent reference to that "corrected copy" in the literature, so I'm skeptical of the claim. Maybe, who knows. Again, the opus number was allowed to stand by Beethoven, who was fairly meticulous about such things, so that's a slim point in its favor.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere, I suppose. I'm not sure this is the right place to draw them but then I've always been quite inclusive in my views about Beethoven's works.

--Mark

[John Fowler]

Mark: I found the Serenade Op.41 for Flute and Piano on Naxos: it's on disc 64, coupled with the Serenade Op.25.

Also: Hess 46 (UnV 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment which I listed as exclusive to DG, should be
Common to DG and Naxos:
Hess 46 (UnV 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment [DG 100 or Naxos 64]

[Mark Zimmer]

Thanks John, updated. Inclusion of op.41 in the Naxos makes sense, because they have an op.41 by Kazunori Seo already in their catalogue.

[Mark Zimmer]

On Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 9:17:02 AM UTC-5, John Fowler wrote:
> BAD NEWS:
> re: the Naxos Box
> The photo of the Naxos box on Amazon Germany is sharp enough that I can read the print on the back of the box.
> The "CD-ROM in a separate sleeve" which I thought might contain texts and translations for the vocal works, DOES NOT.
> Instead it contains:
> "Two free album downloads of Liszt piano transcriptions of Beethoven symphonies or songs."
> STUPID.
> Apparently only the DG box will contain texts and translations.

Received my copy of the Naxos box tonight, and although I haven't been able to spend much time with it, I'm impressed. The Naxos folks have really, really done their homework. There are a LOT of rare items and many, many world premieres here. Lots of oddities and variants of things are present, many of them never before recorded, and Naxos doesn't always note the world premieres of things that I'm pretty sure have never before been recorded. For instance, not only are all the folksong arrangements here, but there are a significant number of the oddball variants present as well (such as the original version of Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie, with a more active violin part). There are a great many sketches and fragments for piano, many of which I never dreamed would ever be found on a recording. The inclusiveness is often staggering. The Italian part-songs that Beethoven did studying under Salieri are included in new recordings; I haven't yet gone through them but there are enough here that they may well be complete.

Erlkönig WoO 131 is indeed present. The song Liebe, Hess 137 is here, disguised under the title "Schwinge dich in meinem Dom" (I Swing you in my Cathedral), Willy Hess' mildly ridiculous mistranscription of Beethoven's (admittedly awful) scrawl of the first line of the song, "Ich wiege dich in meinem Arm" (I Cradle you in my Arms). This is the first commercial recording, but Naxos neglects to take credit for that. Both are on CD 88. As far as I can tell all the many different variants of "Freudvoll und Leidvoll" are here. I'm quite astonished at the completeness of this box. The one serious omission I'm finding on a quick review is indeed the 1806 Leonore. The 1805 Leonore is here in Blomstedt's version, as John reported earlier, and Fidelio performed by the Nicolaud Esterházy Sinfonia (Michael Halász, conductor). I don't see the counterpoint exercises and studies Hess 233 through 245 yet, but I'd truly be shocked to find them included in any box.

There is unfortunately no index of works in the booklet, so it's going to take a while for me to sort through what's what here. There is also a slip in the box with a code to allow one to download your choice of 2 of 5 CDs of Liszt transcriptions of Beethoven works also.

Texts are alas not included. According to the booklet, they are supposed to be available at Naxos' website www.naxos.com/beethoven250 but I couldn't find them. Possibly they're not up just yet. There is a list of some of the first recordings in the box, but as noted above, that's not complete.

Anyway, for us obsessive types who are after every note from Beethoven's pen, this is an amazing release. Naxos has gone far beyond what I expected from them, even knowing ahead of time that they were including many rare items. Wow. DGG and Warner have their work cut out for them to beat this box for inclusiveness.

Mark

[John Fowler]

https://www.naxos.com/ECard/2019/B2C/Beethoven250/
Clicking on "First Recordings" (blue background) at the top of the page reveals the 21 works Naxos claims to be "First Recordings".
I'm glad to learn that there are more.

[John Fowler]

Apparently most of the "new" piano rarities in the Naxos box are on CDs 32 and 34, but Naxos' website does not go into details for those two CDs.
https://www.naxos.com/ECard/2019/B2C/Beethoven250/
Click on "Tracklists" at the top of the page (green background).

[John Fowler]

Though Naxos doesn't list the details, I think I have found the contents of CDs 32 and 34 on Arkiv Music's website.
This is where most of the piano rarities are concentrated:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2292995

Naxos CD 32 = 150-178 (eight are claimed as first recordings on Naxos' website)
Naxos CD 34 = 186-214 (two are claimed as first recordings on Naxos' website)

[Arno Schuh]

Does anybody know who is playing the organ pieces? I missed the Suite für
ein Orgelwerk. Probably it is mentioned in the track list by its parts
Allegro, Adagio, Scherzo?

Arno

[John Fowler]

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 12:30:47 PM UTC-6, Arno Schuh wrote

On Naxos, Stücke (5) für Flötenuhr, WoO 33 is played by Janette Fischell.
This is according to the Arkivmusic website (#181 on the Arkiv list, apparently this works out to CD33 or CD34 in the Naxos box).
But the Naxos website does not list it.
The Naxos website needs a lot of work.

[Mark Zimmer]

CD 32:
Grenadiersmarsch Hess 107
Fugue in D WoO 31
5 Pieces for Flötenuhr WoO 33
are all performed on organ by Janette Fishell, at Auer Hall, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music August 2018. These appear to be the only pieces played on organ, at least that I've seen thumbing through the booklet.

The Two Preludes through all the Keys op.39, usually performed on organ (though not specified as such by Beethoven)are on CD 16, performed on piano by Jenö Jandó.

Mark

[Arno Schuh]

Mark Zimmer <gard...@gmail.com> wrote:
Two Preludes through all the Keys op.39, usually performed on
> organ (though not specified as such by Beethoven)are on CD 16,
> performed on piano by Jenö Jandó.
>

That's really a pitty!

Arno

[John Fowler]

When I pointed out to Naxos that their website failed to list the contents for discs 32 and 34 "Piano Fragments, Arrangements and Sketches", they told me I'd have to buy the box ($100) to find out.

"Many thanks for the information.
We would like to inform you that the complete track lists for these can be found in the booklet it comes with, and please note that what's written on the mini site are just overview of the whole collection.
We hope for your patience and understanding.
Thank you and have a good day."

Jerks.

[Frank Berger]

I would imagine this is from a single idiot and not corporate policy. I
think you should point out to them the damage just done to Naxos'
reputation as a result.

[Frank Berger]

On 11/6/2019 8:05 AM, John Fowler wrote:

If you really need to know, you can find the contents listing at
arkivmusic.com. They don't show what's on what disk, but you can search
for Gallo, Petersson and Jando and figure it out.

[Mark Zimmer]

John,

In sorting through and indexing the Naxos box, it turns out that the following things you have as exclusive to DG are in fact in the Naxos box also, so they can go into your COMMON TO BOTH category.

WoO 62a: Andante maestoso in C “Letzter musikalischer Gedanke” for piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
WoO 200: “O Hoffnung” four bar theme as teaching exercise for Archduke Rudolph [DG 99] Naxos 34
WoO 209: Minuet in A Flat Major with Trio in A Minor for piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
WoO 210: Allegretto in b minor for String Quartet [DG 100] Naxos 54
WoO 211: Andante in C Major for piano [DG 99] Naxos 34
WoO Anh.4: Flute Sonata in B-Flat Major [DG 101] Naxos 64
WoO Anh.5, No.1: Sonatina in G Major for Piano [DG 101] Naxos 34
WoO Anh.5, No.2: Sonatina in F Major for Piano [DG 101] Naxos 34
WoO UnV 8: Duo for Violin and Cello in E-Flat Major - fragment [DG 100] Naxos 60 (WoO Unv 8=Gardi 2)
Hess 36: String Quartet arrangement of the fugue from the Overture to Handel's Solomon [DG 100] Naxos 54
Hess 46 (Unv 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment [DG 100] Naxos 64
Hess 58: Piano exercise in B flat major /minor for Piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
Hess 59: Piano Piece in C major for Piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
Hess 70: Adagio ma non molto in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99] Naxos 34
Hess 71: Molto Adagio in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99] Naxos 34
Hess 72: Theme and Variation in A Major for Piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
Hess 96: Symphony No. 7 - arr. for piano [DG 99] Naxos 32
Kafka folio 41: Piano Piece in A major [DG disc 99] Naxos 34
Kafka folio 160r: Piano Piece in A major [DG 99] Naxos 34 [Naxos describes its piece as an Allegro in A major from folio 160r staves 1-6; it's *probably* the same piece, but I can't be sure without checking the DG box, or diving into the Kafka Miscellany]

These are so far as I can tell still exclusive to the DG box:

WoO 62b: Andante maestoso in C major "Letzter musikalischer Gedanke" for String Quintet [DG 100]

WoO Anh.10: Eight Variations for Piano on "Ich hab' ein kleines Hüttchen nur" for Piano [DG 101]

WoO UnV 12: Piano Sonata "quasi una Fantasia" in D major for Piano [DG 99]

Hess 236: Two-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 237: Three-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 238: Six Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 239: No.2,3: Chorale Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 243: Double Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 244: Triple Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 245: Fugue in d minor for String Quartet - fragment [DG 101]
Hess 331b: Minuet in B-Flat Major for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 332: Pastorella for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 333: Menuetto - Scherzo for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 334: Allegro in A Major for String Quartet [DG 100]
Hess Anh.57: Dona nobis pacem - Fugue for Four Voices arr. Piano [DG 99]

Kafka folio 47v: Allegretto in A minor /major for Piano [DG 99] [Naxos 34 has what's billed as a "Presto in A" from Kafka folio 47v staves 13-16; it's *possible* this is the same piece, just described differently]

Kafka folio 47v, staves 5-8: Piano Piece in C major [DG 99]

Kullak folio 51/52: Piece in F Minor for piano [DG 99]
Op.107: Variationen über 10 Volksweisen No.1,3,4,6,7,9 for Violin and Piano [DG 100]

The Naxos box includes the following additional uncatalogued pieces (all but the last are for piano):
Alla marcia in C Kafka f.119v 2-5 [Naxos 34]
Allegretto in G, Fischhof f.53v 11-14 [Naxos 34]
Minuet in D for piano, Kafka f.39r 1-4 [Naxos 16]
Minuet in D minor for piano Gardi 10 [Naxos 17]
Una paloma blanca, 1st version of WoO 158/19 Gardi 25


A couple oddities I noticed in the Naxos box:
op.88 Der Glück der Freundschaft is, for reasons I cannot understand, according to the booklet performed on CD 86 in Italian instead of German. There is no rendition in the original German. I am puzzled.
Similarly, WoO 27, the three duets for clarinet and bassoon, are performed instead by flute and bassoon. Since these three pieces are probably spurious anyway, the harm is minimal but it's still a curious choice.
Naxos includes the piano trio version of Symphony No. 2 (catalogued as Biamonti 425, although Naxos just includes it under op.36). This is a nice bonus; I don't know whether DG will include it.
Naxos excludes the dozen or so musical greetings, WoO 205; I don't know whether they are in DG's box. They are included in the Brilliant Classics Beethoven Edition, if you are doggedly tracking down every WoO number.
Naxos does include the musical joke Holz, Holz, geigt die Quartette so ["Holz, you play the quartet as if you were chopping cabbage"] WoO 204, even though the most recent scholarship suggests that it is by Karl Holz himself and misattributed to Beethoven. It's still nice to have it.

The omission of Hess 331 through 334 from the Naxos box is a bit perplexing; Naxos has done a superlative, extraordinarily thorough job of including variants and odd little items from the Hess catalogue otherwise, as well as many obscurities and fragments from the Biamonti catalogue, so I am puzzled as to why they failed to include these four little miniatures, which are complete and ready to play, and are well-known in the literature. Probably an accidental oversight/omission? Of course, they're also omitted from the new edition of Kinsky/Halm for some reason, despite the assignment of around 20 new WoO numbers. Perhaps there's a dispute about their authenticity that I am unaware of.

Excluding the fugues written in Beethoven's studies with Albrechtsberger (Hess 236-245) seems inconsistent with the inclusion of all of the Italian part-songs (WoO 99) written as part of Beethoven's studies with Salieri. But even DG is selective and doesn't include all these fugues. Most of Naxos' other omissions can be explained away without much trouble.

I believe the DG box will also include the following canons (we created scores for them to use, so I hope they are included), which are not in the Naxos box:
WoO 223 Thut auf
WoO 224 Cacatum non est pictum
WoO 226 Fettlümmerl und bankert haben triumphirt

Now that I have the Naxos column of my spreadsheet filled in, I can be of more use in clearing up questions about this box.

Mark

[Invocation]

Check this:
https://tower.jp/article/feature_item/2019/11/06/1112

it lists details of each disc in pdf files. For CD32-34, use this URL:
https://cdfront.tower.jp/~/media/Files/Tol/classic/3.pdf?la=ja-JP

[John Fowler]

Dear Mark,
Many thanks for your help.
The Naxos website still lists only twenty "first recordings" https://www.naxos.com/ECard/2019/B2C/Beethoven250/
though the Naxos box clearly has a lot more.

My copy of the DG box is still in transit.
I pre-ordered it from Amazon France (€185.99 or $206) and it should be here soon.
In the meantime I am relying on their website.
DG has the piano trio version of Symphony 2 in a period instrument performance (disc 118).
I had almost forgotten about the duos for clarinet and bassoon WoO27. I won't penalize DG for omitting it, since Beethoven never claimed credit for it.

PS Do you have the Naxos disc number for Una paloma blanca, 1st version of WoO 158/19 Gardi 25 ?
I'm old enough to remember Slim Whitman's country music version of Una paloma blanca (he was famous for his high notes).

[Mark Zimmer]

1st version of Una paloma blanca is on CD 84.

Slim Whitman! Now there's a blast from the past.

Mark

[John Fowler]

REVISED LIST OF BEETHOVEN RARITIES ON DG AND NAXOS - NOV 7, 2019
Thanks to Mark Zimmer.

BEETHOVEN RARITIES on DG and NAXOS:
Discs 99-101 in the DG box are devoted to 50 works that were not in DG’s previous Beethoven box, issued on CD twenty-five years ago,
but only 19 are exclusive to DG (31 are shared with Naxos)
Complicating matters, there are a further 26 items on Naxos, that are not on DG.
This chart is a work in progress:
I purchased the DG box, but am relying on websites for the contents of the Warner and Naxos boxes (I’m not independently wealthy).
Naxos’ website is usually helpful, but something is definitely wrong this time.
It stubbornly claims only 20 first recordings, though there are a lot more in their box.
Still waiting for Naxos to publish details for CDs 32 and 34 (piano sketches and fragments).
I am holding off on the WARNER box, which is due to be released on November 29 in the UK or December 13 in the US (it’s hard to believe that Warner actually forgot the finale to the Op.130 String Quartet).
If I missed anything, please let me know.
Thanks to Mark Zimmer for his help in sorting this out.

EXCLUSIVE TO DG:
WoO 62b: Andante maestoso in C major "Letzter musikalischer Gedanke" for String Quintet [DG disc 100]
WoO Anh.10: Eight Variations on "Ich hab' ein kleines Hüttchen nur" for Piano [DG 101]

WoO UnV 12: Piano Sonata "quasi una Fantasia" in D major for Piano [DG 99]
Hess 236: Two-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 237: Three-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 238: Six Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 239: No.2,3: Chorale Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 243: Double Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 244: Triple Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 245: Fugue in d minor for String Quartet - fragment [DG 101]
Hess 331b: Minuet in B-Flat Major for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 332: Pastorella for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 333: Menuetto - Scherzo for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 334: Allegro in A Major for String Quartet [DG 100]
Hess Anh.57: Dona nobis pacem - Fugue for Four Voices arr. Piano [DG 99]

Op.107: Variationen über 10 Volksweisen No.1,3,4,6,7,9 for Violin and Piano [DG 100]

Uncatalogued pieces:

Kafka folio 47v: Allegretto in A minor /major for Piano [DG 99]

Kafka folio 47v, staves 5-8: Piano piece in C major [DG 99]
Kullak folio 51/52: Piano piece in F Minor [DG 99]

EXCLUSIVE TO NAXOS:
WoO 126: Opferlied, sketch for voice and piano (1796) [Naxos disc 88]

WoO 158, No.19 (Gardi 25) folksong setting “Una paloma blanca” (first version) [Naxos 84]

WoO 169: “Ich küsse Sie” for voice and choir (1816) [Naxos 90]
WoO 170: “Ars longa, vita brevis” for choir (1815/16) [Naxos 90]
WoO 178: “Signor Abate!” for choir and piano (c. 1820) [Naxos 90]
WoO 201: “Ich bin bereit! Amen” for choir (after 1818) [Naxos 90]
WoO 221: “Herr Graf, ich komme zu fragen” for choir and piano (c. 1796-1797) [Naxos 90]
Hess 60: Sketch in A major for Piano (1818) [Naxos 32]
Hess 324: Melody in C minor for Piano (1802) [Naxos 34]
Hess 330: March in C minor for Piano (1804) [Naxos 32]
Hess 331a: Minuett in B flat major for Piano (1799) [Naxos 17]
Bia. 191: Intermezzo for Sonata in C minor, possible sketches for Piano Sonata No.5 or No.8 (1798-99) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 268: Fragment in A major producing effect of Horns, for piano (1793) [Naxos 32]

Bia. 272: Andante in B flat major for Piano (1793) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 273: Sketch in F major for Piano (1793) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 276: Sketches in C major and G major for Piano (c.1800), Bia. 276 [Naxos 32]

Bia. 318: Sketch for Piano Sonata in A minor (1802) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 622: Pastorella in C major for Piano (1815) [Naxos 34]
Bia. 637: Piano Trio in F minor (1816) [Naxos 42]
Op.48, No.3: song “Vom Tode” (first version, 1798-99) [Naxos 88]
Op.113: The Ruins of Athens, version with narration (1811) [Naxos 72]

Uncatalogued pieces (all but the last are for piano):
Fischhof folio 53v 11-14: Allegretto in G for Piano [Naxos 34]
Kafka folio 39r 1-4: Minuet in D for Piano: [Naxos 16]
Kafka folio 119v 2-5: Alla marcia in C for Piano [Naxos 34]
Gardi 10: Minuet in D minor for Piano [Naxos 17]

COMMON TO DG AND NAXOS:

WoO 59b: Bagatelle in A minor "Für Elise" for Piano (second version, 1822) [DG disc 99 or Naxos disc 14]
WoO 62a: Andante maestoso in C “Letzter musikalischer Gedanke” for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
WoO 200: “O Hoffnung” four bar theme as teaching exercise for Archduke Rudolph for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
WoO 209: Minuet in A Flat Major with Trio in A Minor for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
WoO 210: Allegretto in b minor for String Quartet [DG 100 or Naxos 54]
WoO 211: Andante in C Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
WoO 212: Anglaise in D Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]

WoO 213: Four Bagatelles for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]

WoO 216a: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 216b: Bagatelle in Eb Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 217: Minuet in F Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 218: Minuet in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 15]
WoO 219: Waltz in C Minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO Anh.4: Flute Sonata in B-Flat Major [DG 101 or Naxos 64]
WoO Anh.5, No.1: Sonatina in G Major for Piano [DG 101 or Naxos 34]
WoO Anh.5, No.2: Sonatina in F Major for Piano [DG 101 or Naxos 34]
WoO UnV 8: Duo for Violin and Cello in E-Flat Major - fragment [DG 100 or Naxos 60] (Gardi 20)
Hess 36: String Quartet arrangement of the fugue from the Overture to Handel's Solomon [DG 100 or Naxos 54]
Hess 46 (UnV 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment [DG 100 or Naxos 64]

Hess 57: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]

Hess 58: Piano exercise in B flat major /minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
Hess 59: Piano Piece in C major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]

Hess 67: Two German Dances in F major /minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 16]

Hess 70: Adagio ma non molto in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 71: Molto Adagio in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 72: Theme and Variation in A Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
Hess 96: Symphony No. 7 - arr. for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]

Hess 97: Wellingtons Sieg oder die Schlacht bei Vittoria - arr. for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]

Op.9, No.1 String Trio, Scherzo with Alternative Trio [DG disc 100 or Naxos disc 45]

Uncatalogued pieces:
Kafka folio 41: Piano Piece in A major [DG disc 99 or Naxos 34]
Kafka folio 160r staves 1-6: Piano Piece in A major [DG 99 or Naxos 34]

[Mark Zimmer]

Here's another oddball item: Naxos CD 8 includes 6 Minuets WoO 10, reconstructed for orchestra by F. Beyer 1922-2018. Performed by Turku Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam, conductor. I'm not sure if that's also in the DG box. The original orchestral version is lost.

[John Fowler]

On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 7:59:28 PM UTC-6, Mark Zimmer wrote:
> Here's another oddball item: Naxos CD 8 includes 6 Minuets WoO 10, reconstructed for orchestra by F. Beyer 1922-2018. Performed by Turku Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam, conductor. I'm not sure if that's also in the DG box. The original orchestral version is lost.

My DG box finally arrived from Amazon France.
Really nice, as expected.
It arrived at JFK Airport on November 7, but took ten days to clear customs.
I guess they were waiting to see if it would explode.

Questions you had:
--- 6 Minuets WoO 10 are only in the piano version.
--- The DG box does not include these canons:

WoO 223 Thut auf
WoO 224 Cacatum non est pictum
WoO 226 Fettlümmerl und bankert haben triumph

I have revised my list of Beethoven rarities.
Current total:
18 rarities exclusive to DG
19 rarities exclusive to Naxos
37 rarities common to both

I will proofread my list one more time and post the results here.
(still postponing my analysis of the Warner box)

[MELMOTH]

Le 27/09/2019 à 14:59, joey7c...@yahoo.com a écrit :
> I’ll be going for the Naxos box, only because of the large duplications for me with the other boxes -including the blu-rays.

+ 69...
I've been listening to the Naxos for a week....
Absolutely exciting, with little-known or unknown interpreters, very
often more than honourable!.....

[John Fowler]

UPDATED LIST OF BEETHOVEN RARITIES ON DG AND NAXOS
Revised November 20, 2019
Naxos finally e-mailed me a copy of the contents of CDs 32 and 34.
I found an additional twenty rarities that they forgot to mention on their website.
Naxos still hasn't updated their website.

BEETHOVEN RARITIES on DG and NAXOS:

Discs 99-101 in the DG box are devoted to works that were not in DG’s previous Beethoven box, issued on CD twenty-five years ago.
18 rarities are exclusive to DG
42 rarities not on DG are exclusive to Naxos
37 rarities are common to DG and Naxos (in a tie for bragging rights to “first recording”).

This chart is a work in progress:
I purchased the DG box, but am relying on websites for the contents of the Warner and Naxos boxes (I’m not independently wealthy).
Naxos’ website is usually helpful, but something is definitely wrong this time.

Still waiting for Naxos to publish details for CDs 32 and 34 (piano sketches and fragments).
I am holding off on the WARNER box, which is due to be released on November 29 in the UK or December 13 in the US (it’s hard to believe that Warner actually forgot the finale to the Op.130 String Quartet).
If I missed anything, please let me know.
Thanks to Mark Zimmer for his help in sorting this out.

EXCLUSIVE TO DG:

WoO 62: Andante maestoso in C major "Letzter musikalischer Gedanke" for String Quintet (the piano arrangement is common to both boxes) [DG disc 100]

WoO Anh.10: Eight Variations on "Ich hab' ein kleines Hüttchen nur" for Piano [DG 101]

Hess 236: Two-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 237: Three-Voice Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 238: Six Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 239: No.2,3: Chorale Fugues for Piano [DG 101]
Hess 243: Double Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 244: Triple Fugues for String Quartet [DG 101]
Hess 245: Fugue in d minor for String Quartet - fragment [DG 101]

Hess 332: Pastorella for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 333: Menuetto - Scherzo for String Quartet - fragment [DG 100]
Hess 334: Allegro in A Major for String Quartet [DG 100]

Hess Anh.57: Dona nobis pacem, Fugue for Four Voices after Haydn - arr. Piano [DG 99]
Bia. 213 (UnV 12): Piano Sonata "quasi una Fantasia" in D major [DG 99]

Op.107: Variationen über 10 Volksweisen No.1,3,4,6,7,9 for Violin and Piano [DG 100]
Uncatalogued pieces:

Kafka folio 47v: Allegretto in A minor/major for Piano [DG 99]

Kafka folio 47v, staves 5-8: Piano piece in C major [DG 99]
Kullak folio 51/52: Piano piece in F Minor [DG 99]

EXCLUSIVE TO NAXOS:

WoO 29: March in B flat major - original and revised versions [Naxos 34]
WoO 201: “Ich bin bereit! Amen” for choir [Naxos 90]
Hess 60: Sketch in A major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Hess 63: arrangement of C.F.D. Schubart’s Kaplied for piano [Naxos 34]
Hess 65: Concert Finale in C Major - arr. of coda to third movement of Piano Concerto No.3 [Naxos 11]
Hess 66: Allegretto in C Minor (second version of WoO 53) [Naxos 34]
Hess 84: Rondo for solo Piano after the piano arrangement of the Violin Concerto [Naxos 34]
Hess 85: second version of the cadenza for Hess 84 [Naxos 34]
Hess 98: Scherzo for piano, unfinished - sketch for Piano Trio Op.1, No.2: scherzo [Naxos 32]
Hess 274: Two-part Canon in G major for Piano [Naxos 34]
Hess 275: Two-part Canon in A flat major for Piano [Naxos 34]
Hess 324: Melody in C minor for Piano [Naxos 34]
Hess 330: March in C minor for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 69: Three little sketches in canonic style for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 96: 18 Sketches for Piano (1795) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 98: Sketch for Piano Sonata in E flat major [Naxos 32]
Bia. 99: Sketches for Allegretto (1795) [Naxos 32]
Bia. 191: Intermezzo for Sonata in C minor, possible sketches for Piano Sonata No.5 or No.8 [Naxos 32]
Bia. 268: Fragment in A major producing effect of Horns, for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 270: Andante in F major - fragment, for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 271: Fragment in E flat major for piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 272: Andante in B flat major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 273: Sketch in F major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 276: Sketches in C major and G major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 277: Presto in G major for Piano [Naxos 34]
Bia. 279: Allegro in C major for Piano [Naxos 34]
Bia. 280: Passage in B major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 317: Sketch in E flat major for Piano [Naxos 32]
Bia. 318: Sketch for Piano Sonata in A minor [Naxos 32]
Bia. 319: Unused sketches for the finale to the Eroica Variations [Naxos 32]
Bia. 622: Pastorella in C major for Piano [Naxos 34]
Bia. 637: Piano Trio in F minor [Naxos 42]
Bia. 720: Fragment in G major [Naxos 32]
Bia. 849: Instrumental sketch [Naxos 32]

Gardi 10: Minuet in D minor for Piano [Naxos 17]

Gardi 25: folksong setting “Una paloma blanca” - first version of WoO 158, No.19 [Naxos 84]
Op.48, No.3: song “Vom Tode” - first version, 1798-99 [Naxos 88]
Op.113: The Ruins of Athens - version with narration [Naxos 72]
Uncatalogued pieces:

Fischhof folio 53v 11-14: Allegretto in G for Piano [Naxos 34]
Kafka folio 39r 1-4: Minuet in D for Piano: [Naxos 16]

Kafka folio 47v staves 13-16: Presto in A major [Naxos 34]

Kafka folio 119v 2-5: Alla marcia in C for Piano [Naxos 34]

COMMON TO DG AND NAXOS:

WoO 59b: Bagatelle in A minor "Für Elise" for Piano (second version, 1822) [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 62: Andante maestoso in C “Letzter musikalischer Gedanke” - arr. Diabelli for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
WoO 126: Opferlied - sketch for voice and piano [DG 82 or Naxos 88]
WoO 169: “Ich küsse Sie” - two part puzzle canon [DG 82 or Naxos 90]
WoO 170: “Ars longa, vita brevis” - two part canon [DG 85 or Naxos 90]
WoO 178: “Signor Abate!” - three part canon [DG 85 or Naxos 90]

WoO 200: “O Hoffnung” four bar theme as teaching exercise for Archduke Rudolph for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
WoO 209: Minuet in A Flat Major with Trio in A Minor for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
WoO 210: Allegretto in b minor for String Quartet [DG 100 or Naxos 54]
WoO 211: Andante in C Major for piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
WoO 212: Anglaise in D Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 213: Four Bagatelles for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 216a: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 216b: Bagatelle in Eb Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]
WoO 217: Minuet in F Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]
WoO 218: Minuet in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 15]
WoO 219: Waltz in C Minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 17]

WoO 221: “Herr Graf, ich komme zu fragen” - three part canon [DG 85 or Naxos 90]

WoO Anh.4: Flute Sonata in B-Flat Major [DG 101 or Naxos 64]
WoO Anh.5, No.1: Sonatina in G Major for Piano [DG 101 or Naxos 34]
WoO Anh.5, No.2: Sonatina in F Major for Piano [DG 101 or Naxos 34]

Hess 36: String Quartet arrangement of the fugue from the Overture to Handel's Solomon [DG 100 or Naxos 54]
Hess 46 (UnV 11): Violin Sonata in A Major - fragment [DG 100 or Naxos 64]
Hess 57: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 14]

Hess 58: Piano Piece in B flat major (theme and one variation, “zur übung der Faust”) [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
Hess 59: Piano Piece in C major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32] - not listed in the index in DG’s hardcover book
Hess 67: Two German Dances in F major/minor for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 16]

Hess 70: Adagio ma non molto in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 71: Molto Adagio in G Major - fragment for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 72: Theme and Variation in A Major for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]

Hess 96: Symphony No. 7 slow introduction - arr. for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 32]
Hess 97: Wellingtons Sieg oder die Schlacht bei Vittoria - arr. for Piano [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Hess 331: Minuet in B flat major - fragment for Piano [Naxos 17] or arr. String Quartet [DG 100]
Gardi 2 (UnV 8): Duo for Violin and Cello in E-Flat Major - fragment [DG 100 or Naxos 60]
Op.9, No.1 String Trio - Scherzo with Alternative Trio [DG 100 or Naxos 45]
Uncatalogued pieces:
Kafka folio 41v staves 13-16: Allegro giocoso in A major [DG 99 or Naxos 34]
Kafka folio 160r staves 1-6: Allegro in A major [DG 99 or Naxos 34]

[Mark Zimmer]

I note an incorrect listing in the Naxos booklet (surprisingly few so far!): Naxos CD 34 Track 5 'Alla marcia' is not Kafka f.119v 2-5; it is Kafka f.47v 5-8 (1792-1793). This is an error carried over from the edition used by the pianist (van der Zanden, Raptus 2011), which similarly lists the incorrect source, so not really Naxos' fault.

The DGG box arrived today. It is a monster. I haven't even opened it yet, but it's massive.

Mark

[John Fowler]

Kafka f.47v 5-8 (1792-1793) is also in the DG box, played by Tobias Koch CD 99, track 18

[John Fowler]

I thought I found a new piano "rarity" by Beethoven, but no...

DG box: CD 116 track 11 is "first Alternate Improvised Introduction" to the Choral Fantasy Op.80, played by Robert Levin.
This is NOT a newly discovered sketch by Beethoven.
Levin has made a habit of improvising cadenzas to concerti, and apparently got carried away, substituting his improvisation for Beethoven's finished work.
Levin plays Beethoven's version on CD 15

[Mark Zimmer]

John, I have many updates for your last list. Corrections are absolutely welcome, but I tried to be thorough.

UNIQUE TO NAXOS
Biamonti 48 Anglaise for piano in G minor (original and revised versions) [Naxos 34]
Biamonti 345 Fuga Tema in C [Naxos 34]
Biamonti 346 Fuga Antique in C [Naxos 34]
Hess 25 Finale. Allegro early version of String trio op.3 VI [Naxos 46]
Hess 87 March in B flat WoO 29 arr for piano (original and revised versions) [Naxos 34]
Hess 89 Ritterballett for piano [Naxos 33]
Hess 90 Creatures of Prometheus for piano [Naxos 33]
Hess 91 Opferlied, 2nd setting for voice, choir and piano [Naxos 88]
Hess 93 Freudvoll und leidvoll, elaborated version with prelude [Naxos 88]
Hess 94 Freudvoll und leidvoll, elaborated version without prelude [Naxos 88]
Hess 95 Freudvoll und leidvoll, for voice and piano [Naxos 88]
Hess 99 March in F arranged for piano [Naxos 33]
Hess 100 10 German Dances for piano arrangement of WoO 8 [Naxos 15]
Hess 101 12 Minuets for piano, arrangement of WoO 7 [Naxos 17]
Hess 102 Piano version of 7 dances from Contredanses WoO 14 [Naxos 16]
Hess 118 Invisible chorus for Consecration of the House, Folge dem mächtigen Ruf der Ehre! [Naxos 72] Music is the same as a piece in Ruins of Athens, but different lyrics.
Hess 137 Liebe (Ich wiege dich in meinem Arm/Ich Schwinge dich in meinem Dom) [Naxos 88]
Hess 140 2 alternate versions of Dimmi, ben mio, che m'ami, op.82/1 [Naxos 88]
Hess 141 Alternate version of Busslied, op.48/6 [Naxos 88]
Hess 142 1st version of Wonne der Wehmut, op.83/1 [Naxos 88]
Hess 144 1st version of Feuerfarb, op.52/2 [Naxos 88]
Hess 145 Sketch of 1st setting of Opferlied, WoO 126 [Naxos 88]
Hess 146 1st version of Der Freie Mann [Naxos 88]
Hess 151 Traute Henriette [Naxos 88]
Hess 178 Alternate version of Sunshine WoO 153/44 [Naxos 84]
Hess 191 The Vale of Clwyd, 1st version of WoO 155/19 [Naxos 84]
Hess 194 I dream'd I lay, 1st version [Naxos 84]
Hess 195 When far from the home, alternate version of WoO 153/40 [Naxos 84]
Hess 196 I'll praise the saints, 1st version of WoO 153/41 [Naxos 84]
Hess 197 'Tis but in vain, 1st version [Naxos 84]
Hess 198 Oh! Would I were 1st version of WoO 153/48 [Naxos 84]
Hess 200 The Maid of Isla 1st version op.108/4 [Naxos 84]
Hess 200 The Maid of Isla 2nd version op.108/4 [Naxos 84]
Hess 201 Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie, 1st version of op.108/7 with original violin part [Naxos 84]
Hess 201 Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie, 2nd version of op.108/7 with revised violin part [Naxos 84]
Hess 202 Oh! Thou art the lad of my heart, Willie 1st version of op.108/11 [Naxos 84]
Hess 203 Faithfu' Johnie, 1st version of op.108/20 [Naxos 84]
Hess 204 O let the night my blushes hide discarded version WoO 155/7 [Naxos 84]
Hess 205 The Dream, 1st version of WoO 155/14 [Naxos 84]
Hess 206 To the Blackbird, 1st version WoO 155/20 [Naxos 84]
Hess 263 Te solo adoro, sketch for WoO 186 [Naxos 90]
Hess 264 Te solo adoro, sketch for WoO 186 [Naxos 90]
Hess 274 Canon in G actually by Johann Mattheson, from Der vollkommene Kapellmeister III/15 [Naxos 34]
Hess 297 Adagio in A flat for 3 horns [Naxos 60]
Hess 324 Melody in C minor for piano [Naxos 34]
Hess 324 Melody in C minor for piano reconstructed by A.W. Holsbergen [Naxos 34]
Hess 325 Piano piece in D [Naxos 34]
Hess 330 March in C minor for piano reconstructed by A.W. Holsbergen [Naxos 32]
op. 41 Serenade for flute in D, arrangement of Serenade op.25 [Naxos 64]
op.64 Cello sonata arrangement of string trio op.3 [Naxos 36]
op.121b Opferlied, 1822 version for 3 voices, choir and orchestra [Naxos 76]
op.122 Bundeslied for chorus and piano [Naxos 77]
op.131 Early version of 1st movement of String quartet #14 in C sharp minor [Naxos 54]
WoO 2a Piano version of Triumphal March from Tarpeja (spurious) [Naxos 33]
WoO 10 6 Minuets, reconstructed for orchestra [Naxos 8]
WoO 15 6 Ländler for 2 violins and bass [Naxos 59]
WoO 17 11 Mödlinger Dances (spurious) [Naxos 7]
WoO 18 - original (1810) and revised (1822) versions of March #1 F [Naxos 59]
WoO 19 Original (1810) version of March #2 F [Naxos 59]
WoO 23 Ecossaise in G for Piano [Naxos 17]
WoO 27 3 Duets [Naxos 60, but for flute and bassoon instead of clarinet and bassoon]
WoO 63 revised version of 9 Variations on a March by Dressler [Naxos 29]
WoO 99/3 (E pur fra le tempeste Hess 232) [Naxos 90]
WoO 99/11a (revised version of duet Fra tutte le pene, no separate Hess #) [Naxos 90]
WoO 99/11b (revised version of terzet Fra tutte le pene, Hess 209) [Naxos 90]
WoO 99/12a (solo voice version of Salvo tu voui lo sposo, no separate Hess #) [Naxos 90]
WoO 105 First version of Hochzeitslied, with 2 solo voices, Hess 125 [Naxos 87]
WoO 113 First version of Klage [Naxos 88]
WoO 133 First (1806) version of In questa tomba oscura [Naxos 88]
WoO 135 First version of Die laute Klage [Naxos 88]
WoO 140 Draft version and first version of An die Geliebte [both Naxos 87]
WoO 160 Two canons [Naxos 63]
WoO 171 Glück fehl' dir vor allem (by Michael Haydn MH 582) [Naxos 90]
WoO 222 Canon in A flat Hess 275/328 [Naxos 34]


UNIQUE TO DG

Hess 76 Cadenza for Piano Concerto #1 [DG 20]
Hess 133 Das liebe Kätzchen [DG 84]
Hess 134 Der Knabe auf dem Berge [DG 84]
op.58 Piano quintet version of Piano Concerto #4 [DG 118]
op.75/5 First version of An den fernen Geliebten [DG 88]
WoO 18 arrangement by Schade of March in F as Yorck'scher Marsch [DG 25]
WoO 64 Harp version of 6 Variations on a Swiss Song [DG 51]

Note that uncatalogued Kafka folio 47v: Allegretto in A minor/major for piano [DG 99] should be listed as folio 47v 11-16; it is a longer version of the same piece on Naxos 34, described there as Presto in A, Kafka f.47 13-16.

COMMON TO BOTH DG AND NAXOS
Needs to be moved here: Biamonti 213/Unv 12; in addition to DG 99, it also appears on Naxos 34, so not unique to DG and should move to this category.

Biamonti 425 Symphony #2 in D op.36, version for piano trio [DG 118, Naxos 41]
Hess 245 Fugue in D minor for string quartet fragment appears on both [DG 101 and Naxos 63]
op.121b Opferlied, 1824 version for solo voice, choir and orchestra [DG 93, Naxos 76]
op.122 Bundeslied for chorus and orchestra [DG 93, Naxos 75]
WoO 99 Partsongs: 21 of the 25 songs are in common [DG 85, Naxos 90]


HIDDEN (unindexed) ITEMS
WoO 2b Introduction to Act II of 1805 version of Leonore [Naxos 7] is included in the Gardiner Leonore [CD 28]
op.72a Leonore Overture #2 [DG 102] is used as the overture to the 1805 Leonore by Blomstedt [Naxos 69]


BOTH SETS MISSING (major catalogued items only)
Hess 1, Original ending to 8th Symphony, first movement
Hess 12, Oboe concerto (lost other than 2nd movement, reconstructions)
Hess 15, Piano Concerto in D (1815), 1st movement reconstruction
Hess 47, Piano trio arrangement of string trio op.3 (1st movement and fragment of 2nd movement)
Hess 82, Cadenza 'senza misura' for Rondo of Piano Concerto #4
Hess 83, Very brief cadenza for Rondo of Piano Concerto #4
Hess 92, Bundeslied for solo voice and piano
Hess 95, Freudvoll und Leidvoll in F (draft)
Hess 108, Siegessymphonie from Wellington's Victory op.91, arranged for Panharmonicon (but no Panharmonicons are extant, so this would be difficult)
Hess 110, Leonore 1806 version; Gardiner on DG incorporates some elements from it [DG 28-29]
Hess 111 Early version of Nur hurtig fort from Leonore
Hess 112 1806 version of Rocco's gold aria, cut from the 1806 Leonore
Hess 113 Marzelline's Aria with abbreviated conclusion
Hess 114 Recitative for Don Fernando, Dresden version of Fidelio [this may be silently included in the Gardiner version on DG 29]
Hess 121 Aria of Marzelline O wär ich schon mit dir vereint in C
Hess 122 Another version of Aria Hess 121
Hess 147 first version (fragmentary) of Der Kuss, op.128
Hess 149 Rastlöse Liebe (drafts)
Hess 150 Heidenröslein (drafts)
Hess 233 Counterpoint exercises for Haydn
Hess 234 Exercises in strict counterpoint for Albrechtsberger
Hess 235 Exercises in free counterpoint for Albrechstberger
Hess 236 Remainder of 2-voice fugues
Hess 237 Remainder of 3-voice fugues
Hess 238 Remainder of 4-voice fugues
Hess 239 1 of the 3 Chorale Fugues
Hess 240 2-voice exercises in Double counterpoint of the octave
Hess 241 Exercises in Double counterpoint of the octave and a third
Hess 242 Exercises in Double counterpoint of the octave and a fifth
Hess 243 Remainder of double fugues
Hess 245 Musical Joke for 3 voices, Sankt Petrus ist ein Fels
Hess 246 Double fugue on Kyrie eleison
Hess 298 Draft of Symphony Movement in C minor
Hess 299 Bester Magistrat
Hess 300 Canon Liebe mich, werter Weissenbach
Hess 301 Waehner, es ist kein Wahn
Hess 302 Canon, Uns geht es kannabalisch wohl als wie fünfhundert Säuen
Hess 304 Canon, Ich blase das Fagot
Hess 305 Canon Geschalgen ist der Feind
Hess 321 Little instrumental melody in B-flat
Hess 322 Gott allein ist unser Herr, er allein
Hess 323 Leb wohl, schöne Abendsonne
Hess 326 Fugue in C (sketch)
Hess 327 Two little melodies in A minor
Hess 329 Beginning of Tibi gratulor
op.11 Piano trio in B flat, version for violin in place of clarinet
op.42 Nocturne for viola (doubtful)
op.63 Piano Trio (doubtful)
op.68 Alternate ending to Pastoral Symphony, II (Scene by the brook)
op.105 Violin version of 6 variations on folksongs
op.107 Parts of violin version of 10 variations on folksongs
WoO 205 Musical Greetings
WoO 223 Canon, Thut auf (Biamonti 752)
WoO 224 Canon, Cacatum non est pictum
WoO 225 Canon, Grossen Dank für solche Gnade (Hess 303)
WoO 226 Canon, Fettlümerl und Bankert haben triumphirt (Hess 260)
WoO 228 Musical greetings: "Ah, Tobias" and "Tobias" (Hess 285)
Unv 5 Concertante in D (full score fragment of the beginning)
Unv 20 Lamentations of Jeremiah
Biamonti 15 Musical Joke, Der arme Componist

I have to say, when we started The Unheard Beethoven just about 20 years ago I never imagined we would get to the point where the list of unrecorded Beethoven was this short; other than the counterpoint exercises (which I will be the first to admit are not that interesting unless you are really into counterpoint) it's mostly things that were never completed or variants, so if you live in a Small Beethoven world (how sad!) you could consider these boxes to be pretty much the Complete Works between them. And some of the others have appeared on other recordings (the 1806 Leonore, the WoO 205 Musical Greetings, Hess 15 Piano Concerto, Hess 12 Oboe Concerto, etc. See The Seldom Heard Beethoven pages at http://unheardbeethoven.org for details), trimming the list down even further. This is a case where I welcome becoming redundant. But there are still quite a few unpublished sketchbooks that include things not yet published or heard, so we're not done yet!

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

And I already spotted an error. :(

Hess 95 Freudvoll und leidvoll, for voice and piano does NOT appear on the Naxos set; that line should be removed. It's correctly in the MISSING FROM BOTH category.

[Mark Zimmer]

On Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 9:21:13 AM UTC-6, Mark Zimmer wrote:

Aaargh the Freudvoll und Leidvoll section of the Naxos box should read as follows:

Hess 93 Freudvoll und leidvoll, elaborated version with prelude [Naxos 88]

Hess 93 Freudvoll und leidvoll, elaborated version without prelude [Naxos 88]
Hess 94 Freudvoll und leidvoll, for voice and piano [Naxos 88]

[John Fowler]

Thanks, Mark
It looks like I will have to buy the Naxos box after all.
Now looking for deals on Ebay.
Since the DG box came with a lot of empty space (4 inches of foam rubber), I should be able to transfer the Naxos rarities to the DG box.
Not overly excited about the basic repertoire on Naxos (though I will give the new Segerstam recordings a listen).
Disappointed that Naxos went with the old Drahos/Esterhazy Beethoven Symphonies instead of their new Fischer/Danish Chamber Orchestra recordings.

[Mark Zimmer]

Yeah, I do like the Kodaly Quartet recordings of the chamber music in the Naxos box though. Really nice sound, a lot of verve and good presence. A very exciting set, I thought. Naxos emailed me with more corrections to the list (!) but they were all contained in my 11/27 update. I need to update the list on The Unheard Beethoven as well.

Mark

[RANDY WOLFGANG]

Is the bottom line that in order tp get the most complete Beethoven possible one has to get all three? Yikes!

[Mark Zimmer]

Some folk song corrections: Hess 133 and 134 also appear on Naxos CD 82 as tracks 32 and 33 (subsumed under the new WoO 158 as numbers 28 and 29). So these should not be in the 'Exclusive to DG' category.

Hess 168 Air français (with oboe playing the vocal line, which has no text) is also on Naxos CD 82 as part of new WoO 158. I believe this is exclusive to Naxos; I haven't found it on the DG box yet anyway.


Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

I haven't seen the Warner box yet (mine shipped yesterday), so I don't know what it has, and they've been seriously tight-lipped about the contents. But Naxos definitely has the longest list of things that are not in the DG or Brilliant boxes, and I believe it's the cheapest of the three. DG does have some things not in the Naxos box, but if you're looking for the most complete single box, I think Naxos comes out ahead there pretty handily. I'm not aware of anything in the Brilliant box that's not in the Naxos box, though of course there are different recordings. Naxos did license about five discs of the folksongs from Brilliant, plus added about half a dozen more songs of their own on top of that.

Mark

[AMR]

Any opinions on the Warner set? Anyone? Please ?

[Mark Zimmer]

It has been pointed out to me that there is an error in the DG box. CD 99, track 19, claims to be Hess 59. It is not; it is WoO 218/Biamonti 74, Minuet in C. Hess 59 is an Etude in C. WoO 218 also appears on CD 46 as track 22. So far as I can see, the DG box doesn't actually include Hess 59, and WoO 218 appears twice.

You can hear a midi of the actual Hess 59 here and verify:
https://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess59

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

Updates: The track on CD 99 of the DG box that is listed as Hess 58 actually includes both Hess 59 (first) and then Hess 58, together as one track. So Hess 59 *is* there on DG CD 99; it's just misidentified and melded to Hess 58. The track 19 of DG CD 99 identified as Hess 59 is really Minuet in C, WoO 218/Biamonti 74, which is also performed by Lang Lang on DG CD 46 as track 22.

I have laboriously gone through the entire DG CD 99 with scores in hand and have confirmed that all the rest of the many tracks on that disc are correctly identified. My next project will be doing the same for DG CDs 100 and 101 (the other two discs of rarities), which should go more quickly.

I also note that on DG CD 99, only the first movement of the Sonata quasi una fantasia draft Biamonti 213/Unv 12 is performed, and not the last two movements. But the second movement is actually for the most part complete, while the third movement is a sketchy continuity draft much of the time. All 3 movements are performed (regardless of their state of completeness) on Naxos CD 34. So that's semi-exclusive to Naxos.

On DG CD 20, the cadenza for the first piano concerto played by Arrau that is on the last track is NOT Hess 76 as the books claim. It's the very-rarely-heard incomplete cadenza Biamonti 506 #1, which was printed in the Gesamtausgabe in the 19th century, and is something else entirely. Coincidentally, Biamonti 506/1 is the very same cadenza that is played by Buchbinder on the first track of CD 20, in his performance of the concerto. Because the cadenza is incomplete, the conclusion that Arrau uses may be different than Buchbinder's--I didn't check that. This cadenza does not appear on the Naxos set, so it is still unique to the DG box, and even shows up twice there.

Mark

[John Fowler]

Thanks for all your hard work. Much appreciated.
I was worried what to make of that cadenza.
Does anybody here know of a website that identifies the cadenzas played on recordings?
More often than not they are not identified in the booklet (DG doesn't).
Since the DG box has three different recordings of Beethoven's First Concerto, I had assumed that each recording used a different one, but I guess not.

[Mark Zimmer]

[updated to incorporate corrections]

I have that information about the cadenzas assembled for the recordings I have at least but that's not exactly comprehensive; I should probably add a page to the Unheard Beethoven with these breakdowns sometime once I'm done with these boxes. Unfortunately the only way to make sure of which one is which on recordings is to listen to them with scores in hand. The Biamonti-numbered scores are available here:

http://ks.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/5/55/IMSLP04059-Beethoven-cadencies.pdf

For Concerto #2 and #3, there is only one cadenza by Beethoven (Biamonti 507 and 508 respectively) so if you know it's by Beethoven those are easy. #1 and #4 are pretty complicated, though.

There are at least four Beethoven cadenzas for the first movement of #1 (Biamonti 506 nos 1-3, plus Hess 76 which is a sketch and incomplete, not to mention the lost Hess 77). There's also Hess 78 for the third movement, and the one on the Toscanini/Horowitz leaf that doesn't have a catalogue number (recorded by Perahia with Haitink/Concertgebouw).

There are the standard Biamonti 509 cadenzas for concerto #4 (two for the first movement, one for the Rondo), plus Hess 81 for the first movement and Hess 82 and 83 for the Rondo.

The piano concerto version of the violin concerto op.61a also has two Beethoven cadenzas for the Rondo, Hess 84 and 85. Hess 84 and 85 show up on most recordings of this concerto. I know they're on Barenboim's recording for sure.

I finally received my Warner box and have the following to report:

EXCLUSIVE TO WARNER:
op.42 Nocturne for viola and piano (like op.41, an arrangement by F.X.Kleinheinz, but corrected and approved by Beethoven) [Warner CD 40]
op.88 Der Glück der Freundschaft, sung in German [Warner CD 73]
WoO 9 6 Minuets, reconstructed for orchestra [Warner CD 16]
WoO 27 3 Duets for clarinet and bassoon (doubtful) [Warner CD 57]
WoO 51 Two pieces for orphica, a portable piano-like instrument popular in the 1790s; only Warner's box includes a performance of these little pieces on the orphica rather than piano [Warner 27]
WoO 162 Canon Ta, ta, ta, ta, lieber Mälzel (spurious) [Warner CD 80]

COMMON TO NAXOS AND WARNER (BUT NOT ON DG): (so these need to come off the "exclusive to Naxos" list)
WoO 10 6 Minuets, reconstructed for orchestra [Naxos CD 8, Warner CD 16]
WoO 15 6 Ländler for violins and bass [Naxos CD 59, Warner CD 16]
WoO 17 11 Mödlinger Dances [Naxos CD 7, Warner CD 16]
WoO 18 March in F, 1822 version with Trio (Hess 7) [Naxos CD 59, Warner CD 11]
WoO 99/3 E pur fra le tempeste, tenor solo Hess 232 [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
WoO 99/11a corrected version of duet Fra tutte le pene (no separate Hess #) [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
WoO 99/11b corrected version of terzet Fra tutte le pene Hess 209 [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
WoO 105 version for four-part choir Hess 125 [Naxos CD 87, Warner CD 69]
WoO 171 Glück fehl' dir vor allem; by Michael Haydn MH 582 [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
WoO 181/1 Canon Gedenket heute an Baden! [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80--the Warner booklet says #2 and #3 are excluded because they are "minutia")]
WoO 199 Ich bin der Herr von zu [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
Hess 229 Languisco e moro for two voices [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]
Hess 263 and 264, drafts of Te solo adoro (on Warner listed under WoO 186) [Naxos CD 90, Warner CD 80]

COMMON TO DG AND WARNER (BUT NOT ON NAXOS) (so can be removed from the DG exclusive list)
WoO Anh.10 8 Vars on Ich hab ein kleines Hüttchen nur [DG CD 101, Warner CD 30]. Both boxes use Buchbinder's recording of this set of variations.

Add to the EXCLUSIVE TO NAXOS list:
WoO 181/2 Canon Gehabt euch wohl
WoO 181/3 Canon Tugend ist kein leerer Name


As the smallest of the three boxes, it's not surprising that Warner generally disregards variants. Only the WoO-listed folksongs make the cut (no Hess-listed variants), but they are all in brand new recordings, rather than retreads of 1970s recordings, so if you like these little pieces, this box may be of interest for that reason. The only notable exception regarding the exclusion of variants is the op.16 piano quintet is also provided in its piano quartet version.

The thin Warner booklet only contains an index of works, plus a handy list of what they excluded and why--something I've never seen before in this kind of box, but it does give some insight into the curation process for Warner. There's also a useful conversion table between the old and new WoO numbers for WoO 99 and the folk song arrangements, many of which changed in the move to the second edition of the Kinsky-Halm catalogue. Naxos and Warner use the new numbering of the folksongs, while DG stuck to the old one, making comparisons difficult.

The track listings are all on the backs of the individual Warner CD sleeves (often in microscopic print for crowded discs like #80), which have unique attractive period paintings (many by Caspar David Friedrich) on the front of each sleeve, as opposed to the rather generic sleeves DG and Naxos used. So if you rip the discs, you'll have a lot of scanning ahead of you.

I did complete my review of DG CDs 100 and 101, and all tracks on those two Rarities discs are correctly identified.

Unless I run across more errors or need to correct some mistakes, I think my analysis here is pretty much done on these three boxes.

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

[second updated and corrected list]

Plus there are the following rarities common to all three boxes (so I guess they're not so much rarities any more) that were formerly in the list of rarities common to Naxos and DG:

op.122 Bundeslied for chorus and orchestra [DG 93, Naxos 75, Warner 68]
WoO 99 Italian Partsongs: 21 of the 25 songs are in common between DG and Naxos [DG 85, Naxos 90], plus Naxos also has the other four [see above] Warner has 24 of the 25 [Warner 80], omitting only WoO 99/12a, the version of Solvo tu vuoi lo sposo for solo voice.
WoO 169: “Ich küsse Sie” for voice and choir (1816) [Naxos 90, DG 85, Warner 80]
WoO 170: “Ars longa, vita brevis” for choir (1815/16) [Naxos 90, DG 85, Warner 80]
WoO 200: “O Hoffnung” four-bar theme as teaching exercise for Archduke Rudolph for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 34, Warner 79]
WoO 210: Allegretto in B minor for String Quartet [DG 100, Naxos 54, Warner 55]
WoO 211: Andante in C Major for piano [DG 99, Naxos 34, Warner 32]
WoO 212: Anglaise in D Major for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 17, Warner 32]
WoO 213: Four Bagatelles for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 17, Warner 26]
WoO 214: Bagatelle in C minor, Hess 69 [DG 44, Naxos 16, Warner 32]
WoO 215: Fugue in C (Hess 64) [DG 46, Naxos 16, Warner 32]
WoO 216a: Bagatelle in C Major for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 14, Warner 26]
WoO 216b: Bagatelle in Eb Major for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 14, Warner 26]
WoO 217: Minuet in F Major for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 17, Warner 32]
WoO 218: Minuet in C Major for Piano [DG 46 and 99 (recording on DG disc 99 misidentified as Hess 59), Naxos 15, Warner 32]
WoO 219: Waltz in C Minor for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 17, Warner 32]
WoO 221: “Herr Graf, ich komme zu fragen” for choir and piano (c. 1796-1797) [Naxos 90, DG 85, Warner 80]
WoO Anh.4: Flute Sonata in B-Flat Major [DG 101, Naxos 64, Warner 38]
Hess 58: Piano exercise in B flat major/minor for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 32, Warner 32]
Hess 59: Piano Piece in C major for Piano [DG 99 (in same track as Hess 58, misidentified), Naxos 32, Warner 32]
Hess 67: Two German Dances in F major/minor for Piano [DG 99, Naxos 16, Warner 32]

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

Another that needs to be moved from "Exclusive to Naxos" to "Common to Naxos and Warner" is:
op. 41 Serenade for flute in D, arrangement of Serenade op.25 [Naxos 64, Warner 38]

[Mark Zimmer]

John, your fears have come true. Warner CD 53 includes the first 5 movements of String Quartet #13, op.130. In place of the finale that Beethoven substituted in, they have the Grosse Fuge op.133, which was the original finale. But no recording of the final finale. There's plenty of room on the CD to have included it, as it's only 61 minutes of content. As far as I can see, they've somehow managed to omit the last movement of one of Beethoven's major works. Oy. I'll report back if it turns up someplace else, but it's not anywhere obvious. Quite the oversight.

Mark

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 4:06:34 PM UTC-6, John Fowler wrote:

In the DG box, the following cadenzas are used:

Concerto #1:
CD 16 Argerich/Ozawa I. Biamonti 506/2
CD 20 Buchbinder/Thielemann I. Biamonti 506/1
CD 20 Arrau/Davis I. Biamonti 506/1
CD 114 Levin/Gardiner (Cadenza: Levin)

Concerto #4:
CD 17 Brendel/Rattle I. Biamonti 509/2 III. Biamonti 509/3
CD 21 Pollini/Bohm I. Biamonti 509/2 III. Biamonti 509/3
CD 115 Levin/Gardiner (Cadenza: Levin)

Piano Concerto version of Violin Concerto, op.61a
CD 22 Barenboim: III. Hess 84 and Hess 85

Mark

[John Fowler]

Dear Mark:
Very happy to see your updated (December 28) comparison of the three boxes.
My feeble attempt is very much outdated.
https://unheardbeethoven.org/complete-beethoven-editions-galore/

But I did notice two errors:

RARITIES COMMON TO DG AND NAXOS:
Op.9, No.1 String Trio, Scherzo with Alternative Trio Hess 28 [DG disc 100 or Naxos disc 45]
should be RARITIES COMMON TO ALL THREE BOXES
Warner disc 46 contains both the standard and alternative trios to the Scherzo.
Warner divides the scherzo into four tracks:
4 = Scherzo
5 = Trio 1
6 = Trio 2
7 = Scherzo
This gives the listener a choice of which trio to listen to, though I assume most listeners will just listen to both of them.

EXCLUSIVE TO DG:
Op.17 Cello version of the Horn Sonata [DG 59]
should be RARITIES COMMON TO DG AND NAXOS
Maria Kliegel plays it on Naxos disc 37 (tracks 41-43)

[ian.lawren...@gmail.com]

Sorry for butting in on this conversation ... but is someone possibly able to confirm for me what is included on the Naxos set re the quartet of 130 and 133? My look at the website seems to suggest to me that it does the opposite of what Warner does - that is, the revised Finale to Op 130 but without the Grosse uge included. Is that correct? I notice the Grosse Fuge was included on the original recording with the Kodaly Quartet, but that was on a CD without op 131, which is now on the same CD as Op 130 on the Complete Edition.

Many thanks for any advice!

Regards,
Ian

[John Fowler]

The Grosse Fuge Op.33 is on Disc 63 (track 9) of the Naxos box

[ian.lawren...@gmail.com]

> The Grosse Fuge Op.33 is on Disc 63 (track 9) of the Naxos box

Thank you John! I didn't even think to check the Fugues CD!

[Mark Zimmer]

Thanks, John! Updated accordingly.

Note the following late update as well to pieces common to Naxos and Warner:

op.38 Clarinet Trio version of Piano Trio arrangement of Septet op.20 [Naxos 42, Warner 44]

It was news to me that Beethoven had even written a separate clarinet version of this arrangement, but there it is in the score.

I've finally sorted out what differentiates the five different versions of WoO 18 and the three different versions of WoO 19, so I'll revise those entries accordingly as well to clarify what's what.

Mark

[John Fowler]

Revising my original review on Amazon:

OTHER MISSING WORKS:
---- Beethoven submitted two Trios to his publisher in alternate versions for Clarinet or Violin:
-------- Op.11: Trio in B-flat Major:
The Clarinet/Cello/Piano version of Op.11 is in ALL THREE BOXES. The Violin/Cello/Piano version is ONLY IN THE DG BOX.
-------- Op.38: Trio in E-Flat Major (after the Septet Op.20)
The Clarinet/Cello/Piano version of Op.38 is in the WARNER AND NAXOS BOXES. The Violin/Cello/Piano version is ONLY IN THE DG BOX.

[Mark Zimmer]

On further investigation, the Artemis Quartet (who perform the quartets in the Warner box) in their Complete Beethoven String Quartets box set also omitted the revised finale of op.130. Whether this was some kind of odd philosophical decision on their part or an editorial error, I don't know. But it is pretty disappointing for Warner not to have picked up on this serious omission for its "Beethoven Complete Works" box set. As I say, there's plenty of room for it on the op.130 disc.

Mark

[John Fowler]

Mark,
Do you know if the Warner box includes the Piano Quartet WoO 36, No.1?
According to Amazon UK, Disc 56 has WoO 36, No.2 & No.3, but I can't find WoO 36, No.1 anywhere. All three are in the DG and Naxos boxes.

Also, the Piano & Strings Quartet Op.16 (arranged from the Piano & Winds Quintet, also Op.16) - DG and Naxos have it, but again I can't find it on Amazon UK's list of contents for the Warner box.

[John Fowler]

Correction?
Although Amazon UK does not list WoO 36 #1 or the Piano & Strings Quartet Op.16 as being in the Warner box, I found a listing for both on the JPC website.
If anyone reading this actually has the Warner box, could you please check to see if it contains all three of the WoO 36 piano quartets and the OP.16 quartet for piano and strings.

[Mark Zimmer]

Hi John,

Yes, WoO 36/1 is in the Warner box on disc 55. It's performed by a different group than the other two for some reason that escapes me since if they're recorded at all, they're usually recorded as a group of three.

The Quartet version of op.16 is in the Warner box, also on CD 55.

Here are the updates with additional information for the Marches WoO 18 and 19 and also WoO 63 that you may use as you see fit:

=======================

EXCLUSIVE TO DG:
WoO 18 Arrangement by Schade of March in F as Yorck’scher Marsch, Hess Anh.2 [DG 25]

EXCLUSIVE TO NAXOS:
WoO 18 Original (1810) version of March #1 F, with cymbals and triangle but no Trio, Hess 6 [Naxos 59]
WoO 19 Original (1810) version of March #2 F, with cymbals and triangle but no Trio, Hess 8 [Naxos 59]
WoO 63 Revised (1803) version of 9 Variations on a March by Dressler [Naxos 29]. The last variation is the most heavily revised. All three boxes include the original 1782 version, which was Beethoven’s first published composition [DG 47, Naxos 29, Warner 28]

RARITIES COMMON TO NAXOS AND WARNER:
WoO 18 March in F, 1822 version with Trio, Hess 7 [Naxos 59, Warner 11]

RARITIES COMMON TO ALL THREE BOXES:
WoO 19: March in F, 1822 version with Trio, Hess 9 [DG 25, Naxos 59, Warner 11]

ALL THREE SETS MISSING:
WoO 18 March in F, Gesamtausgabe version without cymbals or triangle
WoO 19 March in F, Gesamtausgabe version without cymbals or triangle


============

The fifth variant of WoO 18, the piano version Hess 99, is correct as is and needs no changes.

The Gesamtausgabe versions do not have Hess numbers because Willy Hess' catalogue was expressly designed to assign numbers to compositions that were not in the Gesamtausgabe (Collected Works) published by Breitkopf & Härtel in the 19th century.

Weirdly, what had previously been the standard versions of these two marches WoO 18 and 19, the Gesamtausgabe versions with no Trio, no cymbals and no triangle (and flutes in place of a piccolo), which were the only ones available in print for a hundred years or so, do not appear on *any* of these three sets. It's like they've been completely supplanted by the alternate versions Hess 6-9. Those alternates are more entertaining to listen to in my mind, but it's a very odd process. For generations those were the only way to hear these marches, and now poof, they're in the memory hole.

The cymbal-free Gesamtausgabe versions were included on the old 1997 Complete Beethoven Edition from DG, in performances by the Berlin Philharmonic Winds led by Hans Priem-Bergrath. The WoO 18 on their cymbal-free performance is misdescribed as being the Yorck'scher Marsch arrangement Hess Anh.2 (which in fact uses cymbals and triangle, and has a much bigger brass orchestration, but has flutes instead of piccolo). Those same performances are also on the DG separate release of Wellington's Victory and Military Marches by Beethoven, DG 419 624-2, Amazon ASIN B00000E3GU. They're misdescribed there too, but at least these versions are still readily available in print.

Anyway, the difficulty of sorting all these variants has bothered me for a long time so I'm glad I had the impetus to sit down and figure out exactly what's what with these silly little marches, and to correct some of the record company errors in description that persist. But once you hear the differences between these versions in comparison, it's quite easy to distinguish them.

I'm done with processing the instrumental works and am about 15 discs from the end of analyzing the Warner box, so I just have lieder and folksong arrangements left. But that's hundreds of small pieces so it may take me a while. A lot of the lieder in the Warner set consists of licensed 1970s retreads from Eterna's Beethoven Edition LP set and should pose no issues, but the folksongs are almost entirely new recordings, so that's exciting. Clearly, I have low thresholds for excitement.

Mark

[Mark Zimmer]

Amazon UK is correct that WoO 36 nos. 2 and 3 are on CD 56, by the way.

[Mark Zimmer]

Another correction:

Move op.121b Opferlied, 1824 version for solo voice, choir and orchestra from "Rarities Common to DG and Naxos" to "Rarities Common to All Three Boxes." [DG 93, Naxos 76, Warner 68]

[John Fowler]

Dear Mark,
According to my calculations, if I remove the four inches of foam rubber packing from inside my DG box, and replace it with 25 CDs from the Naxos box (discs 7, 8, 15, 16, 17, 29, 32, 33, 34, 36, 42,46,54, 59, 60, 63, 64, 72, 76, 77, 79, 84, 87, 88, 90), I will then have all the rarities in one box (except the five that are exclusive to Warner).
Very tempting.

EXCLUSIVE TO WARNER (I guess I could live without these):
Op.42: Nocturne for viola and piano (arrangement by F.X. Kleinheinz, approved and corrected by Beethoven) [Warner 40]
Op.88: Der Glück der Freundschaft - German translation of Italian song setting “Vita felice” [Warner 73]
WoO 9: six Minuets, reconstructed for orchestra [Warner 16]
WoO 51: two pieces for orphica, a portable piano-like instrument popular in the 1790s; only Warner includes a performance on the orphica rather than piano [Warner 27]
WoO 162: Canon Ta, ta, ta, ta, lieber Mälzel (spurious) [Warner 80]

[number_six]

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-8, John Fowler wrote

>
> EXCLUSIVE TO WARNER (I guess I could live without these):

> snip <

> WoO 162: Canon Ta, ta, ta, ta, lieber Mälzel (spurious) [Warner 80]

I wonder if that work refers to Maelzel's Chess Player, allegedly an automaton, considered debunked by EA Poe.

Do we know a date for WoO 162?