coronavirus COVID-19

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kill...@coronavirus.com

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Apr 18, 2020, 4:58:28 PM4/18/20
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Bozo

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Apr 19, 2020, 11:06:32 AM4/19/20
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Bozo

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Apr 19, 2020, 7:08:54 PM4/19/20
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WAPO newsletter today : https://tinyurl.com/y8oakyka

Frank Berger

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Apr 19, 2020, 9:52:43 PM4/19/20
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On 4/19/2020 7:08 PM, Bozo wrote:
> WAPO newsletter today : https://tinyurl.com/y8oakyka
>

Did you read the article? It doesn't even assert (let alone with some
kind of source) that Trump knew anything or should have acted sooner
that he has said he did. It simply says CDC and other Americans
(explictly referred to as non-decision makers) were working at the WHO.
It doesn't say who said what or when. This doesn't come close to
passing a smell test.

Bozo

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Apr 21, 2020, 9:19:26 PM4/21/20
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>On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 8:52:43 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:

> Did you read the article?

Yes. It was clear to me. When I read 2 + 2 , I dont need the article to then spell out = 4.

Bozo

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Apr 21, 2020, 9:19:54 PM4/21/20
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Bozo

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Apr 21, 2020, 9:30:30 PM4/21/20
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Frank Berger

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Apr 21, 2020, 9:50:42 PM4/21/20
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If you have an open mind, read it again in light of what I said.
Otherwise, never mind.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 21, 2020, 11:59:49 PM4/21/20
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On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-4, kill...@coronavirus.com wrote:
> coronavirus COVID-19
> http://www.grex.org/~henced/coronavirus.html

President Donald Trump on April 20 resorted to questioning whether a campaign rally he held in March had actually taken place after he was caught in a lie claiming that he hadn’t left the White House in months.
“I don’t know about rallies, I really don’t know about rallies,” Trump said at his press briefing when PBS reporter Yamiche Alcindor mentioned his continued campaign events during the worsening coronavirus pandemic.
“I know one thing, I haven’t left the White House in months, except for a brief moment to give a wonderful ship, the [USNS] Comfort,” he said.
When Alcindor pointed out that he had held a campaign rally on March 3, Trump said: “I don’t know, did I hold a rally? I’m sorry, I hold a rally. Did I hold a rally?”
Trump held five campaign events in February and one in March.
The exchange occurred after Alcindor asked Trump to acknowledge whether he believed his downplaying of coronavirus in the early stages of the outbreak had resulted in people getting sick. She cited an interviewee who said they’d attended a funeral in mid-March and their family members fell ill because they were following cues from the president, who wasn’t taking it seriously, wearing a mask or telling people to stay home.
Trump responded to this question by saying: “A lot of people love Trump, right?” He then patted himself on the back for issuing travel restrictions on China on Jan. 31 and declared that “people should say I acted very early.”
Critics noted that the Jan. 31 move, which banned foreigners who had been in China in the last 14 days from entering the United States, made sense, but required a simultaneous effort to establish widespread testing, equip hospitals with proper medical supplies and limit the spread of the virus.
Yet in late February, Trump labeled the virus a “hoax” during a South Carolina rally. On March 9, when more than 500 people had been diagnosed with COVID-19, he compared coronavirus to the “common flu.”
The outbreak was declared a global pandemic two days later and Trump subsequently canceled his upcoming rallies “out of an abundance of caution.”

Bozo

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Apr 22, 2020, 9:16:32 AM4/22/20
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What other countries doing with same info US had / has:

https://tinyurl.com/ydbj9auy

“ So maybe we shouldn’t be surprised that the United States isn’t reducing the spread of the virus as well as many other countries. We don’t seem to be trying as hard.” Leonhardt,NYT.


Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:17:32 AM4/22/20
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The chart does show what you are implying it does. Every country has a
different cycle, depending not only on what and when mitigation measures
were taken, but on other things too, like when tourists went to China or
when Chinese tourists came to them. The total number of cases and
deaths is meaningless. Not that the we couldn't have done better, but
France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Andorra, Ireland and the UK have more
deaths per million population than the US. No doubt Iran does also, but
their data are bogus.

graham

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:44:22 AM4/22/20
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But surely this is an apples and oranges argument. The population
density in those countries is much higher than that of the US as a
whole. Wouldn't it be better to compare them with, say, NY alone?

graham

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:51:58 AM4/22/20
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To clarify, I mean the state not the city.

smo...@hotmail.com

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:54:23 AM4/22/20
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A lot of countries in Europe didn’t get most cases from people traveling to China or from visiting Chinese tourists, but from Italy or Austria. I have read that a lot of cases in New York are due to people traveling from Europe. You could say, Trump closed one door, but let another wide open. In effect so did countries in Europe only monitoring people who had been skiing in Italy but not people skiing across the border in Austria. Many countries have made mistakes. (Of course the virus came to Italy from China in the first place).

But where some countries learned early on from what happened in Italy (and China) others didn’t. (Even if China has kept information from the rest of the world you can still learn from what happened and how it was handled - e.g. see Tomas Pueyo’s article on Medium “Why you must act now”).

As to comparing numbers you might want to read Nate Silvers piece on that (“Coronavirus Case Counts Are Meaningless*”).

Soeren

Gerard

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Apr 22, 2020, 1:57:34 PM4/22/20
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Op woensdag 22 april 2020 17:17:32 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
The number of deaths is not meaningless at all.
Compare it to China.
China has many, many more inhabitants than the US.
Number of deaths in China: around 46 HUNDRED.
Number of deaths in the USA: around 46 THOUSAND.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:15:00 PM4/22/20
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A fair point, but then the population density in NY exceeds any of those
places. I suppose the statistics should be adjusted for population
density. Maybe also for education level, as I would guess the less
educated would be less apt to conform to distancing, wearing masks, etc.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:18:31 PM4/22/20
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I am not surprised that you believe the official Chinese statistics.
And as you tried in your reply to adjust for population, you have made
no sense at all.

Gerard

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:30:49 PM4/22/20
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Op woensdag 22 april 2020 20:18:31 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
Which confirms that not only these discussions are meaningless, but specially everything you say.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:35:43 PM4/22/20
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On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-4, kill...@coronavirus.com wrote:
> coronavirus COVID-19
> http://www.grex.org/~henced/coronavirus.html

Germany’s 16 federal states have made it mandatory for people to wear face masks when they enter shops or board public transport from next Monday.

It was up to each state to decide whether it would insist on mouth-and-nose covering in public, and several of them already mandated masks last week. There are no set rules about what kind of masks they should be – home-made cotton ones are also acceptable as protection.

Johns Hopkins University data shows that as of Wednesday, Germany has 148,704 confirmed coronavirus cases, and 5,100 recorded deaths.

Authorities have stressed that wearing a face mask does not mean people should not stick to social distancing rules — the masks can only help prevent asymptomatic carriers of coronavirus from infecting others.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 22, 2020, 2:53:01 PM4/22/20
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On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-4, kill...@coronavirus.com wrote:
> coronavirus COVID-19
> http://www.grex.org/~henced/coronavirus.html

45 says that when he saw the videos of the protestors to the lockdowns they were all practicing safe distancing rules.(!) That can only mean

1- he is delusionsal and only sees what he wants to see regardless of what is actually occuring or

2 - he is lying which he seems to do every other time he opens his mouth.

smo...@hotmail.com

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Apr 22, 2020, 3:13:03 PM4/22/20
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Comparing deaths sound easy, but it is not. In my country everyone who died within 30 days of testing positive for covid19 is counted in the statistic as having died from covid19. In theory a person would be counted dead from covid19 even if the person died in a traffic accident.

In some countries people dying outside hospitals aren’t included in the number of dead from covid19. Supposedly the UK numbers are way to low - whereas Belgium claims their numbers are high because they include a wider group than other countries. And then there are some countries you probably can’t rely on to be truthful. Also, there can be a lag in reporting the dead from local to central authorities which means trends can be hard to see. At least on website does 7 day averages but they are of course not better than the data the receive.

Soeren

AB

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Apr 22, 2020, 3:19:19 PM4/22/20
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how can anyone take that idiot liar seriously? His 'brain' has been virused since the day he was born.

AB

AB

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Apr 22, 2020, 3:24:01 PM4/22/20
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biggest problem with education level, is the less education, the less income, the less likely one can live in safe apartments and buildings

AB

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 3:37:00 PM4/22/20
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I don't think that "these discussions" are meaningless, so I participate
in them. You do think they are meaningless but participate anyway. One
of us is ill.

Gerard

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Apr 22, 2020, 3:49:12 PM4/22/20
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Op woensdag 22 april 2020 21:37:00 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
That must be the one who thinks that these discussions have any meaning.

Steven Bornfeld

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:34:44 PM4/22/20
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As has been pointed out numerous times, lower income and blue collar
workers generally don't have the option of working from home. They may
depend upon mass transit. That is certainly the case in NYC.

Steven Bornfeld

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:37:43 PM4/22/20
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This is one of those instances that I agree totally with Frank. The
statistics out of China are almost impossible for me (in any case) to
view as credible.
And that's too bad. Because as China re-opens Wuhan, what goes on there
could be very instructive for the rest of the world--but not if there
isn't transparency.

Steve

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:53:33 PM4/22/20
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Good points. Also not all deaths are equal. The death of a healthy 30
year old is more tragic, in a sense than the death of an 80 year old
whose life expectancy was much shorter. Harsh but true. Not sure to
what extent this affect cross country comparisons, but Italy has the
second oldest population in the world, IIRC, and apparently high
mortality from Covid-19.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:54:32 PM4/22/20
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Sure, it's all correlated.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:55:42 PM4/22/20
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I am underwhelmed by your wit.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 4:56:56 PM4/22/20
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Of course.

Oscar

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Apr 22, 2020, 5:27:43 PM4/22/20
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On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 8:54:23 AM UTC-7, smo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> A lot of countries in Europe didn’t get most cases from people traveling to China or from visiting Chinese
> tourists, but from Italy or Austria. I have read that a lot of cases in New York are due to people traveling
> from Europe.

It's true. A lot of white liberals returning from the Swiss Alps infected low-wage essential workers who happen to be Brown and Black. Their privilege is to blame.

> You could say, Trump closed one door, but let another wide open. In effect so did countries in Europe
> only monitoring people who had been skiing in Italy but not people skiing across the border in Austria.
> Many countries have made mistakes. (Of course the virus came to Italy from China in the first place).

You really shouldn't say that. This virus knows no borders or colors. I mean, it's a Bat virus!

Celebrated NBC News international correspondent Richard Engel on MSNBC, March 18, 2020:

<< If you look at what happened during the Middle Ages, there was lots and lots of scapegoating against an ethnic group or a religious group whenever there were pandemics that affected the society and frightened a lot of people. And China certainly feels that is what’s happening now with people calling it the ‘Wuhan flu’ or the ‘Wuhan virus’ or the ‘China virus.’

This is a virus that came from the territory of China but came from bats. This is a bat virus, not a China virus. It doesn’t target Chinese people. It targets human beings who happen to touch their eyes, nose or mouth.” >>

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1240328061721157632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

> But where some countries learned early on from what happened in Italy (and China) others didn’t. (Even
> if China has kept information from the rest of the world you can still learn from what happened and how
> it was handled - e.g. see Tomas Pueyo’s article on Medium “Why you must act now”).

Certainly. We should start with the welding shut the doors to apartment buildings in hot-spots such as New York, then institute mandatory cell phone tracking and contact tracing by centralized State overlords, and above all, restrictions on freedom of speech! No criticism allowed. Lily-white Gov. Gavin Newsom of California says so! Can you imagine a white Republican governor (say, Ronald Reagan or Pete Wilson) telling a majority-minority citizenry that they cannot exercise their Constitutional right? There would be Parisian-esque riots in the streets. Meanwhile, temperatures across Southern California this weekend will finally rise about 80 for the first time all year. We'll see how well the populace 'complies'. And what's Newsom gonna do about it??

<< CHP bans protests at California Capitol after rally against Newsom’s stay-at-home order
By Sam Stanton
April 22, 2020

Following Monday’s protest at the state Capitol where demonstrators defied Gov. Gavin Newsom’s orders banning large gatherings, the California Highway Patrol says it will no longer issue permits for events at any state properties, including the Capitol.

“Permits are issued to provide safe environments for demonstrators to express their views,” the CHP said in a statement. “In this case, the permit for the convoy was issued with the understanding that the protest would be conducted in a manner consistent with the state’s public health guidance.

“That is not what occurred, and CHP will take this experience into account when considering permits for this or any other group.” >>

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article242198781.html

> As to comparing numbers you might want to read Nate Silvers piece on that (“Coronavirus Case Counts
> Are Meaningless*”).

Nate Silver? The man who failed up spectacularly? 2016?? Would that we all get such favorable treatment. If he were a conservative, he'd be laughed out of the room. But he's a dependable nerdy, Jewish liberal. And yes, I can say that, my mother is Jewish, although I do not 'identify' as one (I know I know, I'm a Jew).

The entire 2016 campaign season was characterized by a series of spectacular Silver blunders. Not only did he notoriously give Hillary Clinton a greater than 99 percent chance of winning the Michigan primary (she lost to Bernie), and then bungled Indiana as well, but he spent a lot of the 18 month campaign on Twitter making a consistent fool of himself. Here follows but a sampling:

“I wonder how much of the Trump Bump is just voters trolling pollsters,” Two Good Reasons Not To Take the Donald Trump ‘Surge’ Seriously — July 16, 2015.

“Basically Trump is the Nickelback of presidential candidates. Disliked by most, super popular with a few.” — July 28, 2015

“PREDICTION: Trump won’t be the Republican /nominee.” — Aug. 6, 2015

“Media: Trump’s doing great! Nerds: No. Those polls don’t mean what you think. Media: A new poll shows Trump doing great! Proved you wrong!” — Aug. 9, 2015

“Donald Trump is winning the polls and losing the nomination.” — Aug. 11, 2015

“About 25% of Americans identify as Republican. Donald Trump’s getting about 25% of that 25% in the polls. Why is this impressive to people?” — Nov. 19, 2015

“Dear media, Please stop freaking out about Donald Trump’s polls.” — Nov. 23, 2015.

“As for me, I remain quite skeptical of Trump’s chances. I also think his nomination would be an unmitigated catastrophe for Republicans.” — Nov. 29, 2015

“Idea that ‘Trump would win an election today’ also dubious. If election were today, voters would be more informed and news cycle different.” — Dec. 4, 2015

(in response to Rupert Murdoch tweeting that Trump’s “cross-party appeal” was a “winning strategy”): “Actually, Trump is by far the least popular Republican with independents (and Democrats)”— Jan. 15, 2016

“Wait it’s just now sinking in that Trump might be a wee bit problematic as a general election candidate?” — March 20, 2016

“Trump’s general elex numbers have been terrible since he launched bid. Media barely noticed during 2015 Trumpmania.” — March 29, 2016

“[Idea of Trump being presumptive nominee by mid-May] is delusional. Math doesn’t work.” — April 9, 2016

“The bad news for Trump is that a poll showing him 5 points down is considered good news for Trump.” — June 26, 2016

“Perhaps the worst take is the ‘Trump’s actually doing well to only be down by 7!!!’ take. He’s the least popular major-party nominee ever.” — Aug. 3, 2016

“Trump has been super unpopular with the November electorate pretty much forever.” — Aug. 16, 2016

“Trump is doubling down on a losing strategy.” — Aug. 18, 2016

“[The] most delusional part of Trump thinking he has a silent majority is how small a fraction of the population he’s even bothering to appeal to.” — Aug. 13, 2016

<end>

Bob Harper

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Apr 22, 2020, 5:32:50 PM4/22/20
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As is China's.

Bob Harper

Bob Harper

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Apr 22, 2020, 5:34:13 PM4/22/20
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If you believe that number from China, you are one gullible individual.

Bob Harper

Raymond Hall

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Apr 22, 2020, 7:36:29 PM4/22/20
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On Thursday, 23 April 2020 04:53:01 UTC+10, RANDY WOLFGANG wrote:
> On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-4, kill...@coronavirus.com wrote:
> > coronavirus COVID-19
> > http://www.grex.org/~henced/coronavirus.html
>
> 45 says that when he saw the videos of the protestors to the lockdowns they were all practicing safe distancing rules.(!) That can only mean
>
> 1- he is delusionsal and only sees what he wants to see regardless of what is actually occuring or

There has been 3 years of this happening, and yet in some posts, he is still defended. Absolutely unbelievable. What is even more unbelievable about the crazies who want their freedom to go around as per normal and infect others, is Trump's endorsement of them. It goes without saying that the crazies are Trump supporters. They should be locked up.


> 2 - he is lying which he seems to do every other time he opens his mouth.

And when a professional in whatever field contradicts the Trump, they get fired. Not very far from totalitarianism, under the very thin and fragile veneer of democracy.

Ray Hall, Taree



Raymond Hall

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Apr 22, 2020, 7:38:34 PM4/22/20
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The really scary thing is that many do.

Ray Hall, Taree

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 7:42:44 PM4/22/20
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Unless and until he cancels or steals the election, our democracy is
intact. The President can pretty much fire anyone who works for him. It
may be wrong or unfair or stupid, but it is not in the least totalitarian.

Raymond Hall

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Apr 22, 2020, 7:48:14 PM4/22/20
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On Thursday, 23 April 2020 06:37:43 UTC+10, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't think that "these discussions" are meaningless, so I participate
> >> in them. You do think they are meaningless but participate anyway. One
> >> of us is ill.
> >
> > That must be the one who thinks that these discussions have any meaning.
> >
>
> This is one of those instances that I agree totally with Frank. The
> statistics out of China are almost impossible for me (in any case) to
> view as credible.
> And that's too bad. Because as China re-opens Wuhan, what goes on there
> could be very instructive for the rest of the world--but not if there
> isn't transparency.
>
> Steve

China should be left out of any real discussions regarding numbers, etc., in order that any discussion be concentrated upon how the rest of the world is dealing with this pandemic, because China will always be used as a scapegoat for those who wish to deflect blame elsewhere.

There are those who who only think in terms of bad guys, and good guys.

Ray Hall, Taree

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 22, 2020, 8:42:38 PM4/22/20
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Well those protrestors were certainly stupid and selfish. As for the doctor who was moved, haven't we seen this vindictive behavior over and over from 45?

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 22, 2020, 8:47:10 PM4/22/20
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45 sure does, you hear it come out of his mouth every single day. Its always us against them - or to be more specific anyne who doesn't agree with him is the bad guy and will be fired or removed or replaced regardless of their talent or qualifications. They are the enemy.

richard...@gmail.com

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Apr 22, 2020, 10:26:25 PM4/22/20
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New York State: 421 people per sq mile.
England: 1010 people per sq mile
UK: 650 per square mile
Your generalisation fails.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:17:01 PM4/22/20
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I had New York City in mind, 26,403 perople per sq mile. NYC is the
epicenter of the epidemic, not Buffalo or Syracue, or Watkins Glen.

JohnGavin

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:36:33 PM4/22/20
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- show quoted text -
45 sure does, you hear it come out of his mouth every single day. Its always us against them - or to be more specific anyne who doesn't agree with him is the bad guy and will be fired or removed or replaced regardless of their talent or qualifications. They are the enemy.
—————————/———————————————-
And his supporters are just about as bad as he is. Their strategy is to never, under any circumstances, admit they are wrong about anything. The worse 45 gets, the deeper they dig their heels in. There’s a part of him in his avid defenders - they are all a symptom of the coarsening of the American consciousness.

Frank Berger

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Apr 22, 2020, 11:40:51 PM4/22/20
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Generalizations as broad as this are bound to be wrong. All you had to
say was "some of his supporters." Not everyone who voted or will vote
for Trump are attached to him to the same degree. I know some people
who are essentially one-issue voters who vote for him on the basis of
that issue and can't stand him otherwise.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 23, 2020, 12:10:04 AM4/23/20
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There are certainly many people estimates are 25% of the population who will vote for him no matter what. It is useless to talk about him with them, or try to change their minds. So it is ridiculous to even try. I'm sure there are some who voted for him who have real buyers remorse. They were hoping for good things and have to admit they didn;t get what they bargained for. I find him fascinating. The body language alone would provide enough material for a college thesis. Watchng him sitting there defensively with his arms crossed or jutting his chin out like Mussolini. He has a lot of issues one of which is extreme jealousy esp to those who made something of themselves from nothing. Childish, vindictive, petty, envious and I really think really unhappy. a fascinating case study. The ones I find really beneath contempt are those that attached themselves to him like Cruz who has been licking Trumps behind after 45 insulted Cruz's father. About Pence I have no words exceot I would love to be a fly on the wall to see the expression on his face when 45 dumps him for someone else for VP. BTW its a shame his wife has a problme with gays - maybe if she knew some they would talk her out of dressing like Mamie Eisenhower.

Oscar

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Apr 23, 2020, 12:40:18 AM4/23/20
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On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 9:10:04 PM, RANDY WOLFGANG wrote:
>
> BTW its a shame his wife has a problme with gays - maybe if she knew some they would
> talk her out of dressing like Mamie Eisenhower.

Can we talk about Jill Biden and maybe, perhaps, if she had some real friends they would talk her into talking her husband out of making a fool of himself in the months ahead? When she has to sit next to him as the loving wife during these television interviews, looking on with a not so much blank expression on her, but one of intensely silent concern. Observing a clear and present decline, knowing as a career politician's wife the impending 25th Amendment injunction that will be joined against her betrothed should he prevail in November. Bless her heart.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 23, 2020, 12:46:19 AM4/23/20
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I'm not sure what the comparison is between a wife concerned as you believe for her husbands mental health and a homophobic wife with bad taste but sure go ahead talk about Jill Biden.

smo...@hotmail.com

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Apr 23, 2020, 1:00:28 AM4/23/20
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Oscar, just because someone is wrong about something doesn’t mean that person is wrong about everything - if you have something to say about the article I referred to, please do, but the stuff about the author’s faith or the 2016 election isn’t relevant as far as I’m concerned.

Even if one doesn’t like the way the Chinese authorities handled the virus in Wuhan (or doesn’t like the Chinese authorities in general), what happened is still something you could learn from. For one thing - and this was clear from Italy as well - if you don’t react quickly and introduce some measures of social distancing, your hospitals will be in risk of not being able to treat all patients.

Soeren

Bob Harper

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Apr 23, 2020, 1:25:10 AM4/23/20
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So we give the lying CCP a pass? No, Ray, no matter who did what in the
rest of the world, the onus of responsibility for this horror rests
squarely on Xi and his henchmen. We should never forget that, and we
should never let them forget that we know that.

Bob Harper

Oscar

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Apr 23, 2020, 1:33:52 AM4/23/20
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On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:00:28 PM, Soeren wrote:
>
> Even if one doesn’t like the way the Chinese authorities handled the virus in Wuhan (or doesn’t like the
> Chinese authorities in general), what happened is still something you could learn from. For one thing - and
> this was clear from Italy as well - if you don’t react quickly and introduce some measures of social
> distancing, your hospitals will be in risk of not being able to treat all patients.

You are correct, and I concur. However, Red Tedros praising Red China in February, for, as he put it, "Its actions actually helped prevent the spread of coronavirus to other countries,” and that he was "very impressed and encouraged by the president’s detailed knowledge of the outbreak" beggars suspension of belief. Is this the Matrix we're living in?

Gerard

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Apr 23, 2020, 4:49:18 AM4/23/20
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Op donderdag 23 april 2020 01:36:29 UTC+2 schreef Raymond Hall:
Everyone with working brains sees and knows what an utterly disgusting person and dangerous and irresponsable type this childish guy in the White house is, only concerned about his popularity ratings in stead of about people. Who thinks that all power belongs to him. A disgrace to humanity. A scandal. It's too obvious. But blind people (like some of the never stopping participants here) will not stop defending him and his right to be as disgusting as he likes.
When he looses the coming elections, you can be sure about his revenge and about naming it a "coup by the enemies of the people". (He would like to follow what Erdogan did: imprisoning journalists, scientists, everyone who disagrees with him of criticizes him, all Democrats.) He could be a real danger to the world.

Gerard

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Apr 23, 2020, 4:50:18 AM4/23/20
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Op donderdag 23 april 2020 01:48:14 UTC+2 schreef Raymond Hall:
In countries where the government is failing seriously in this regard, China will be blaimed anyway by those who always defend their government blindly.
I don't think China should be left out in these discussions. One reason is that "real discussions" don't take place here.
Regarding numbers:
https://localfocus2.appspot.com/5e6f877460e13
This site mentions 4636 deaths in China (which is 3,2 deaths per million inhabitants), 46784 deaths in the USA. Even if the actual number in China would be TEN (10) times what has been mentioned (and if the numbers of deaths would be the same as in the USA), China would have 32 deaths per million inhabitants, For the USA that number is 142 per million inhabitants - 32 does not come close.
Wether there are good guys or bad guys in the government, the USA is not equipped with a safety net for those who lose their income and a good health care for everyone and with an efficient coordinate for tackling this problem. It is not only every state for itself, but also every hospital for itself and everyone for himself.

(USA: 330 million inhabitants
China: 1440 million inhabitants)

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 23, 2020, 6:43:34 AM4/23/20
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I certainly agree that when he loses big time in November he will not go away easily. He will of course say the election was rigged and possibly even try to invoke some legal way to stay in until the fake issue is resolved. Meanwhile the Republicans will continue to try to make it harder and not easier to vote, I was glad to see their recent Wisconsin ploy where they forced people to stand in line in the middle of a pandemic backfired spectacularly - people were so angry they stood on line for hours and unseated a conservative judge. The same thing will happen in November.

JohnGavin

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Apr 23, 2020, 7:38:02 AM4/23/20
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Can we talk about Jill Biden and maybe, perhaps, if she had some real friends they would talk her into talking her husband out of making a fool of himself in the months ahead? When she has to sit next to him as the loving wife during these television interviews, looking on with a not so much blank expression on her, but one of intensely silent concern. Observing a clear and present decline.
——————————————————————
Has it occurred to you, Oscar, that you are actually describing the current First Lady?

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 23, 2020, 7:52:05 AM4/23/20
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On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 7:38:02 AM UTC-4, JohnGavin wrote:
> Can we talk about Jill Biden and maybe, perhaps, if she had some real friends they would talk her into talking her husband out of making a fool of himself in the months ahead? When she has to sit next to him as the loving wife during these television interviews, looking on with a not so much blank expression on her, but one of intensely silent concern. Observing a clear and present decline.
> ——————————————————————
> Has it occurred to you, Oscar, that you are actually describing the current First Lady?

True though what I see on her face is less concern than a wish for a speedy decline

MiNe109

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Apr 23, 2020, 10:42:40 AM4/23/20
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On 4/22/20 10:16 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> I had New York City in mind, 26,403 perople per sq mile. NYC is the
> epicenter of the epidemic, not Buffalo or Syracue, or Watkins Glen.

Wasn't suburban New Rochelle an early hotspot?

gggg...@gmail.com

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Apr 23, 2020, 10:55:50 AM4/23/20
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On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 10:25:10 PM UTC-7, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 4/22/20 4:48 PM, Raymond Hall wrote:
> > On Thursday, 23 April 2020 06:37:43 UTC+10, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think that "these discussions" are meaningless, so I participate
> >>>> in them. You do think they are meaningless but participate anyway. One
> >>>> of us is ill.
> >>>
> >>> That must be the one who thinks that these discussions have any meaning.
> >>>
> >>
> >> This is one of those instances that I agree totally with Frank. The
> >> statistics out of China are almost impossible for me (in any case) to
> >> view as credible...

Many countries are probably under reporting their statistics because they don't want to be perceived as being the cause of a global pandemic.

They are under reporting so that they can avoid this:

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/23/842195529/missouri-sues-china-for-its-handling-of-covid-19-outbreak

gggg...@gmail.com

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Apr 23, 2020, 10:59:18 AM4/23/20
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And most countries are guilty of complacency which was brought on by this:

- Everything in the world may be endured, except continual prosperity.

Goethe

Frank Berger

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Apr 23, 2020, 11:09:36 AM4/23/20
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Yes. I did not mean "epicenter" in the sense of where it started.
Which would have been Wuhan, come to think of it. I meant "epicenter"
as in the most important which, checking the dictionary, is an
appropriate use of the word.

smo...@hotmail.com

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Apr 23, 2020, 11:45:41 AM4/23/20
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It’s not that I don’t think it is reasonable that China should pay compensation, but for states to sue China seems unwise: a) the chance of succes is little and b) if China is liable for the way they handled this virus other states can be liable as well. Missouri just invited citizens to sue Missouri... Lawsuits is not the way to handle this, political demands are.

Soeren

Bob Harper

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Apr 23, 2020, 1:28:35 PM4/23/20
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On 4/23/20 8:45 AM, smo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> It’s not that I don’t think it is reasonable that China should pay compensation, but for states to sue China seems unwise: a) the chance of succes is little and b) if China is liable for the way they handled this virus other states can be liable as well. Missouri just invited citizens to sue Missouri... Lawsuits is not the way to handle this, political demands are.
>
> Soeren
>
Yes, as satisfying as it might be to see the CCP in the dock. Here's a
good article about why it's a bad idea:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/the-foolish-gop-proposal-to-open-china-to-american-lawsuits-over-covid-19/

Note that this is Andy McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor and a very
straight shooter, writing in National Review, a conservative journal of
opinion.

Bob Harper

Steven Bornfeld

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Apr 23, 2020, 5:31:48 PM4/23/20
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I don't know whose hands are clean (so to speak) re: the pandemic. I
know ours aren't, but I doubt China's are either. There will be plenty
of time for fingerpointing, but now--the priority should be on vetting
the data out there, and we're not even close to being able to do it here.

Steve

Frank Berger

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Apr 23, 2020, 7:54:30 PM4/23/20
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I don't know the extent to which China's deceit has caused death and
suffering that wouldn't have occurred anyway. I doubt anyone does. But
nothing anybody else did or did not do can compare to the evil of the
Chinese tyrants.

Matthew Silverstein

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Apr 23, 2020, 10:34:03 PM4/23/20
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On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 9:28:35 PM UTC+4, Bob Harper wrote:

> Note that this is Andy McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor and a very
> straight shooter, writing in National Review, a conservative journal of
> opinion.

A straight shooter? Is this the same Andrew McCarthy who repeatedly insisted that Obama was a socialist, argued that the Affordable Care Act would involve death panels, and then wrote a book claiming that Obama embraced sharia law? Straight shooting indeed!

Matty

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 23, 2020, 10:36:58 PM4/23/20
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Yes I remember what the National Review used to be and the right wing rag it has become

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 24, 2020, 12:06:33 AM4/24/20
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On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 4:58:28 PM UTC-4, kill...@coronavirus.com wrote:
> coronavirus COVID-19
> http://www.grex.org/~henced/coronavirus.html

Us versus them again - he really is a piece of work

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-ties-coronavirus-to-democratic-leadership-threatening-aid-012626397.html

Andy Evans

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Apr 24, 2020, 5:28:05 AM4/24/20
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I've been dreaming a lot these days. I just woke up from a really scary dream - the end of lockdown. In the dream I went by rail from London to Manchester for a conference, and checked into a hotel. There were people everywhere around me - a lot of them very close. There was no way to protect myself from being infected. Not far away somebody coughed. Shortly after arriving and booking in at the hotel I couldn't take it any more and went back to the train station to get a train back to London.

Think of it a little - we've lived in an atmosphere of fear. Going out is fearful, shopping is fearful, buses are fearful. Many of the population are now agoraphobic to some degree. The fear of infection isn't going to go away, and for those who are more on the paranoid side, the degree of fear is going to rise as social distancing ends.

It's delusional to think that "because the government has ended lockdown it's now safe to go out and socialise". It just isn't. It's the same virus, it's the same risks for older people, it's the same means of transmission through the air or through surfaces. Nothing has changed about the virus, and it won't change until there is a vaccine. The only thing that is going to happen when lockdown is ended is that the risk of getting infected at some time or another in the coming months will probably be higher rather than lower.

RANDY WOLFGANG

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Apr 24, 2020, 7:02:45 AM4/24/20