Mussorgsky Pictures At An Exhibition Best Recordings?
edc...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net
Pictures At An Exhibition are? This would include only recordings on CD.
I just purchased the recording tonight, well techincally last night
since it's near 1 a.m. at Tower Records on Naxos 8.550051 conducted by
the Slovak Philharmonic. Thank you for any information.
Edward Crawford
Eric Nagamine
No such thing as a "best" recording. Only personal favorites. I'm
assuming you want one of the orchestral versions like by Ravel.
Reiner/CSO on RCA/BMG
Sinopoli/NYPO on DG
Kubelik/CSO on Mercury (mono)
Out of print and long overdue for release on CD:
Ozawa/CSO on RCA/BMG.
Yes, the Chicago Symphony is a favorite. It's sort of been a signature
tune for the orchestra's brass section. It's the only orchestra I know
of where the trumpet solos have been played by the same man (Bud
Herseth) in all six of the orchestra's recordings of the work over the
last 40 years!
The Sinopoli is a slower reading that focuses on the wonderful Ravel
orchestration. Also the orchestra is in fine shape and the recording is
one of DG's best.(I heard comments at the time of its release that some
orchestra members thought it really captured how they really sound!)
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
Matthew B. Tepper
<39B86F7D...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net>:
No, Matthew Best has not yet recorded it, so there is no "Best" recording.
There are, however, favorite recordings, and generally admired ones. That
by Reiner/Chicago Symphony Orchestra is an excellent example.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Thomas Müthing
Early Naxos: Not good!
The CSO/Reiner recording on RCA that has been mentioned above is certainly
one of the very best. Great sound for its era, too.
Thomas
Nicolas Hodges
toffice2.bellatlantic.net writes
Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition is a piano work, so that can't be
what you purchased if it's played by a Philharmonic. Probably some
bastardised work of Ravel instead :-)
--
Nic
Bob Lombard
news:39B86F7D...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net...
Somehow, I get the feeling that you have something different in mind.
bl
John Carter
the catalogue! I have several favourite performances including Reiner,
Celibidache, and dare I say Stokowski?
John Carter Barsoom
"Thomas Müthing" <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:39B8A98A...@t-online.de...
John Carter
Ravel. However Harty,Funtek. and Ashkenazy all had a shot, even in one case
as a piano concerto that does not seem to work.
Of the others the Funtek on Bis is much darker and more Russian like
Mussorgskys known orchestrations, Ravels is a Rimsky Korsakov view , if you
like. Ashkenazy is between the two. Still far more "Russian" than the Ravel
but also using a very colourful orchestral range.
Do not think I dislike the Ravel,I love it, but this is a work that can
offer many views.
John Carter Barsoom
"Nicolas Hodges" <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:NAq6EEB3...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk...
Ehrlich606
>I just purchased the recording tonight, well techincally last night
>since it's near 1 a.m. at Tower Records on Naxos 8.550051 conducted by
>the Slovak Philharmonic. Thank you for any information.
>
My personal favorite is the Toscanini/NBC Symphony recording of 1952-53 on RCA.
That would be about $10. It's mono, but good mono, and the attack throughout
is incomparable.
Pictures is a famous piece in the sense that it has been used as a recording
demo ever since Mercury recorded it with Chicago and Kubelik in 1951 (available
on CD.)
In fact, Toscanini's version was a response to that recording, I believe. In
the later '50's, Karajan and Reiner also recorded it, with Philharmonia and
Chicago respectively. Reiner tends to get automatic nods around here, but
Karajan's version is very good: no blare in the Great Gate of Kiev.
In the '60's Pictures was recorded many times, basically every label had to
have a "version" out there. CBS got versions from Bernstein and Ormandy --
neither special -- such that Szell's version was mothballed (now on CD.) RCA
got Ozawa and a non-standard orchestration with Liebowitz. I forget the EMI
and London/Decca or Philips permutations. DG did an excellent version with the
BPO and Karajan (1966), Fluffy recorded this piece at least twice with the BPO
and the first one is better.
When digital came along everybody recorded it again, Solti/Chicago was one of
the first. Before that, Giulini did an excellent version on DG (also on CD.)
Sinopoli's recording with NYPO is good but perverse, perverse in the way in
which that word is used in this NG.
Overall I think your best bet is Toscanini, or either Reiner or Giulini with
Chicago. I haven't listened to the Chicagos in awhile, but I do recall that
the trumpet solo in Toscanini's "Samuel Goldenberg & Schmuyle" remain
unmatched, even by the B-d Herseth. And the vehemence of Goldenberg in
Toscanini's recording is idiomatic and also unmatched.
paulgo...@my-deja.com
I second the recommendation of Giulini/CSO. Many others are highly
worthy too, of course, but Giulini is the most poetic and moving.
--
Paul Goldstein
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bob Reid
John Carter wrote:
> <snip>
> and dare I say Stokowski?
> John Carter Barsoom
> "Thomas Müthing" <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote in message
I wish that they would re-release his old London ffrr recording. I imprinted
on that one, and nothing else quite does the trick.
Sacqueboutier
No such thing as a "best" recording. Those I return to
the most are:
Reiner/CSO on RCA
Solti/CSO on Decca
Kubelik/CSO on Mercury
Ormandy/PhO on Columbia LP
Koussevitzky/BSO on RCA
--
AAAAAHHHHH! The atmosphere! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Don Patterson
* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@olg.com
* Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band
Tony Movshon
> John Carter wrote:
> > and dare I say Stokowski?
> > John Carter Barsoom
> > "Thomas Müthing" <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>
> I wish that they would re-release his old London ffrr recording. I imprinted
> on that one, and nothing else quite does the trick.
There is (was) a London recording out a couple of years back, Phase 4, iirc.
Stoki's own orchestration (cool), but a couple of pictures left out (uncool).
--
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
Richard S. Sandmeyer
> Bob Reid wrote:
> > John Carter wrote:
> > > and dare I say Stokowski?
> > > John Carter Barsoom
> > > "Thomas Müthing" <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> >
> > I wish that they would re-release his old London ffrr recording. I
imprinted
> > on that one, and nothing else quite does the trick.
>
> There is (was) a London recording out a couple of years back, Phase 4, iirc.
> Stoki's own orchestration (cool), but a couple of pictures left out (uncool).
Yes, Stoki's own orchestration is/was on CD (London/Decca 443 898-2). As
Tony mentions, it omits a couple of the pictures.
As to the Ravel orchestration, I agree with recommendations of those who
cite the Reiner/CSO and Kubelik/CSO recordings. They are both excellent,
even if the latter is mono. I'd also put in a plug for Ansermet/OSR and
Szell/Cleveland. Some will find the OSR lacking in virtuosity, but I
still think Ansermet had this piece down as well as anyone. The Szell is
also good though there are always those who will accuse him of being too
straightlaced (the couplings on the Szell, Kodaly's Hary Janos suite and
Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Suite, are even better). For that matter, the
Karajan/BPO on DG Originals is also good -- it was done back in the 60s
before his style turned into sonic mush.
Rich Sandmeyer
richsand at iximd dot com
bald...@my-deja.com
don...@olg.com wrote:
> edc...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net wrote:
>
> > I am just curious as to what the best recording or recordings of
> > Pictures At An Exhibition are? This would include only recordings on
CD.
> > I just purchased the recording tonight, well techincally last night
> > since it's near 1 a.m. at Tower Records on Naxos 8.550051 conducted
by
> > the Slovak Philharmonic. Thank you for any information.
>
>
I'm going to go down the same road as everyone else and recommend Reiner
and the CSO on Living Stereo. As well as being a wonderful recording of
this work, the fillers are also excellent. They include a chilling
'Night on Bare Mountain', The best 'Marche Slav' I've ever heard, 'Colas
Breugnon' by Kabalevsky and other great Russian works. This whole disc
is a winner in my opinion and should be bought without delay.
Cheers
Baldric
Tony Movshon
> The Sinopoli is a slower reading that focuses on the wonderful Ravel
> orchestration. Also the orchestra is in fine shape and the recording is
> one of DG's best.(I heard comments at the time of its release that some
> orchestra members thought it really captured how they really sound!)
They should be so lucky. The excellent Sinopoli recording was made in
the Manhattan Center. They don't sound nearly that good in Avery Fisher.
Paul Goodman
wrote:
>edc...@bellatlantic.net wrote in
><39B86F7D...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net>:
>
>>I am just curious as to what the best recording or recordings of
>>Pictures At An Exhibition are? This would include only recordings on CD.
>>I just purchased the recording tonight, well techincally last night
>>since it's near 1 a.m. at Tower Records on Naxos 8.550051 conducted by
>>the Slovak Philharmonic. Thank you for any information.
>
>No, Matthew Best has not yet recorded it, so there is no "Best" recording.
>
>There are, however, favorite recordings, and generally admired ones. That
>by Reiner/Chicago Symphony Orchestra is an excellent example.
I second the Reiner/Chicago recommendation. I have this both on LP
and CD.
- Paul Goodman
prg...@qtm.net
David Wake
Agreed. The Borodin Polovtsian March is also excellent.
Unfortunately, "Colas Breugnon" is extremely messy, with percussion
all over the shop.
David W.
JRsnfld
consider Muti/Philadelphia on EMI, which used to be coupled with an equally
exciting Rite of Spring.
--Jeff
Eric Nagamine
> Overall I think your best bet is Toscanini, or either Reiner or Giulini with
> Chicago. I haven't listened to the Chicagos in awhile, but I do recall that
> the trumpet solo in Toscanini's "Samuel Goldenberg & Schmuyle" remain
> unmatched, even by the B-d Herseth. And the vehemence of Goldenberg in
> Toscanini's recording is idiomatic and also unmatched.
While AT's reading is fine, the one thing I can't stand about the
recording is Harry Glantz' trumpet playing. In all the various LP and CD
incarnations, it sounds like he's playing on a toy trumpet on a 33 1/3
LP played back at 78 rpm. I've come to the conclusion that AT must have
had him play in that strange way since he doesn't sound that bad in any
of the other NBC or NYPSO recordings.
George Murnu
Richter for piano, Celibidache, Kubelik, and Markevitch for the Ravel
orchestral version. Then there's Stoki's own orchestration that has
been mentioned here...
Regards,
George
Edward A. Cowan
> There are several orchestrations of the piano work, the best known is the
> Ravel. However Harty,Funtek. and Ashkenazy all had a shot, even in one case
> as a piano concerto that does not seem to work.
> Of the others the Funtek on Bis is much darker and more Russian like
> Mussorgskys known orchestrations, Ravels is a Rimsky Korsakov view , if you
> like. Ashkenazy is between the two. Still far more "Russian" than the Ravel
> but also using a very colourful orchestral range.
> Do not think I dislike the Ravel,I love it, but this is a work that can
> offer many views.
> John Carter Barsoom
A Biddulph CD offers an Ormandy performance of an orchestration of
"Pictures at an Exhibition" by Lucien Cailliet.
--
E.A.C.
Victor
why?
-Victor
Matthew B. Tepper
Probably a play on the way some people spell "God" as "G-d."
Ehrlich606
oy兀earthlink.net (Matthew B. Tepper) writes:
>
>kv...@yahoo.com (Victor) wrote in <39B9D0CD...@yahoo.com>:
>
>>I've many times seen Bud Herseth's first name written "B-d" on this ng.
>>Any reason why?
>>
>>-Victor
>>
>>
>>> Overall I think your best bet is Toscanini, or either Reiner or
>>> Giulini with Chicago. I haven't listened to the Chicagos in awhile,
>>> but I do recall that the trumpet solo in Toscanini's "Samuel
>>> Goldenberg & Schmuyle" remain unmatched, even by the B-d Herseth. And
>>> the vehemence of Goldenberg in Toscanini's recording is idiomatic and
>>> also unmatched.
>
>Probably a play on the way some people spell "God" as "G-d."
>
I typed thus for precisely that reason: it is a name, but by a simple
substitution it becomes a kind of logogram, giving not only an individual's
name but also an attitude towards the individual named. That too is a little
joke: Herseth is a great trumpeter, but sometimes his worshippers go over the
top.
bkp...@juno.com
this piece, the Reiner/Chicago on RCA is indeed very special. For me,
some of its highlights include: (1) the unbelievably precise snare drum
playing at the end of "Gnomus," coordinated perfectly with the strings
and all ending with a devastating thwack on the bass drum; (2) the
tenor horn (?) solo in "Bydlo." I don't know who the musician is that
played it on this recording but I have heard that it was not a
principal in the orchestra. It is the most even-toned, sure-sounding
solo I've heard and it has a very slight vibrato that is just
spellbinding. The strings are also great in conveying that lumbering
feeling in this section; (3) the incredible virtuosity of the winds in
the "Ballet of the Chicks"--there was certainly more to the CSO than
its fabled brass section!; (4) Adolph Herseth in "Samuel Goldenberg and
Schmuyle." This is simply the finest trumpet playing I've heard for
this piece (contra another poster's opinion), overshadowing even his
fine opening "Promenade" solo; (5) the magical, ethereal beauty of the
string playing in "Con mortuis"--feels like you're floating before the
sudden opening chords of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs"; and (6) the entire
orchestra for the final two sections...simply amazing stuff!
The Chicago Symphony Orchestra were at their absolute peak when this
recording was made and they were playing it under a giant of the podium
in Fritz Reiner, who is completely at home with this piece. Every
section has its own unique personality and the interpretation is
neither bombastic (like Maazel) or perfunctory (like Solti). I
personally find the Living Stereo transfer to be quite superior to the
Gold Seal version. But as far as coupling goes, the latter comes with
Reiner's recording of Respighi's Pines and Fountains of Rome, which is
simply one, unbelievable tour-de-force of orchestral playing at its
finest.
Best wishes,
Brian Park
In article <39B86F7D...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net>,
edc...@bellatlantic.net wrote:
Hat NYC 62
top. >>
Perhaps we do, but, as a professional myself, I consider his standard of
excellence to be about as high as a person can achieve. The fact that he has
done so on an instrument that is exposed 100% of the time it is played makes
the accomplishment more impressive.
And it isn't just his sound, sense of style and his accuracy. His intonation is
superb. But, perhaps, most impressive to me are his sense of rhythm and his
powers of mental concentration. Without these last two, all the other skills
and talents would be somewhat wasted. He seems never to make mistakes. And he
has been doing it for 52 years.
Most of us who play for a living can remember a night or two when we really
'had it' and played nearly 'perfectly.' For Herseth, that's an AVERAGE night.
I just got the Arnold Jacobs tribute cd. The Bozza Sonatine for brass quintet
is worth the price of the disc by itself. Vintage Herseth. The first trumpet
book probably hasn't been played as perfectly in the 34 or so years since the
performance was taped.
That's why we worship him.
-David Hattner, NYC
bria...@my-deja.com
ehrli...@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
> I typed thus for precisely that reason: it is a name, but by a simple
> substitution it becomes a kind of logogram, giving not only an
> individual's name but also an attitude towards the individual named.
> That too is a little joke: Herseth is a great trumpeter, but
> sometimes his worshippers go over the top.
>
*sigh*...yeah, I guess I agree...kind of like how fans feel
towards Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Pedro Martinez, or any others who
are (or in Herseth's case, were) simply the best in their craft. (I
know Jordan retired but I think he could still hold his own among the
very best if he were still playing...but hey, I'm from Chicago!).
Brian Park
Ehrlich606
>
> While there are many fine recordings of the Ravel orchestration of
>this piece, the Reiner/Chicago on RCA is indeed very special.
This is the kind of analysis I like to read on this group in that it is
specific and makes me want to re-listen to the recording. However ....
For me,
>some of its highlights include: (1) the unbelievably precise snare drum
>playing at the end of "Gnomus," coordinated perfectly with the strings
>and all ending with a devastating thwack on the bass drum;
One thing about Reiner recordings that bug me is the prominence of the
percussion.
(2) the
>tenor horn (?) solo in "Bydlo." I don't know who the musician is that
>played it on this recording but I have heard that it was not a
>principal in the orchestra. It is the most even-toned, sure-sounding
>solo I've heard and it has a very slight vibrato that is just
>spellbinding.
It's supposed to be a tuba, IIRC, and the vibrato throws me. Plus, here, as
well as in Goldenberg, Toscanini I think captures the folk or ethnic elements
better than Reiner. Unusual, because Reiner in the Hungarian repertoire or in
Johann Strauss is usually right on top of the ethnic angle, that is, free
rhythms, and melodic lines that sound more "natural" not like they are being
played off staves and bars.
The strings are also great in conveying that lumbering
>feeling in this section;
Arturo takes it slower and builds it better, I think.
(3) the incredible virtuosity of the winds in
>the "Ballet of the Chicks"--there was certainly more to the CSO than
>its fabled brass section!; (4) Adolph Herseth in "Samuel Goldenberg and
>Schmuyle." This is simply the finest trumpet playing I've heard for
>this piece (contra another poster's opinion), overshadowing even his
>fine opening "Promenade" solo;
I still say Arturo's trumpeter (Glantz?) does both of these better. Although I
have rarely heard a trumpeter screw up the first few bars of the piece!
(5) the magical, ethereal beauty of the
>string playing in "Con mortuis"--feels like you're floating before the
>sudden opening chords of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs"; and (6) the entire
>orchestra for the final two sections...simply amazing stuff!
Arturo plays the piece a notch higher.
Ehrlich606
(Hat NYC 62) writes:
>
><< Herseth is a great trumpeter, but sometimes his worshippers go over the
>top. >>
>
>
>Perhaps we do, but, as a professional myself, I consider his standard of
>excellence to be about as high as a person can achieve. The fact that he has
>done so on an instrument that is exposed 100% of the time it is played makes
>the accomplishment more impressive.
>
For Pete's sake, all I said was that I thought the people who liked him tended
to go overboard, and all of a sudden I'm the president of the Bad Herseth
Society.
Herseth is terrific. Still -- you want criticism, criticism can be found. For
example, think of his lines in things like Nevsky, Marche Slave, Schwanda:
Polka and Fugue, and Zarathustra -- just to name a few. His tone cuts right
through, out, and over everything else that's going on. I like it but --- is
this what the composer had in mind? I don't know who the first trumpets are in
Berlin and Vienna, but they have nice tones too, indeed, one might say not so
"bright" and they blend better with their orchestras.
(Incidentally, Herseth's play in "Schwanda" has got to be one of his memorial
pieces -- Reiner really let him fly on that one.)
My only real problem with Herseth is that he is a little too good for a
symphony orchestra. Sort of like putting Margot Fonteyne in the Rockettes. In
fact, Herseth reminds me of jazz trumpeter soloists like Al Hirt, above all.
And yet -- is Herseth as good as Al Hirt? Maybe just a shade behind. But is
the purpose of an Al Hirt to play first trumpet in a symphony orchestra? I say
-- no.
But for all that, I love Bud. And I ain't talking beer.
BTW, I will let you know the story about DSCH 9/10 in a couple days. I have
Dover phone #'s if you want them but not sure I should post them.
Joao Baptista
<edc...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net> escreveu na mensagem
news:39B86F7D...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net...
| I am just curious as to what the best recording or recordings of
| Pictures At An Exhibition are? This would include only recordings on CD.
| I just purchased the recording tonight, well techincally last night
| since it's near 1 a.m. at Tower Records on Naxos 8.550051 conducted by
| the Slovak Philharmonic. Thank you for any information.
|
| Edward Crawford
|
|
My favourites are (no special order):
Reiner / CSO - great orchestral playing, with the best Bydlo I have ever
listened to: the crescendo is outstanding!
Ancerl / Czech PO / Supraphon - magnificent, distinctive, orchestral sound;
what a strings! Sound is very good.
Dorati / MSO / Mercury - A very bright and spontaneous performance. Coupled
with a great piano version by Janis
The Karajan/BPO in DG Originals is not a favourite of mine: too heavy, too
slow. The Tuileries and the Dance of the Unhatched Chickens are good
examples of this: no agility in the playing.
Greetings,
--
******************************
Joao Pedro Baptista
Lisboa - Portugal
jpba...@netcabo.pt
******************************
Hat NYC 62
Dover phone #'s if you want them but not sure I should post them. >>
Thanks. Appreciated.
vme...@mmcable.com
Harry Glantz was the legendary maestro of the trumpet during his time. Herseth himself has stated that Glantz was one
of four trumpeters with the greatest impact on his life. Glantz played with the San Francisco, Philadelphia and then
the New York Philharmonic under first Mengelberg and then Toscanini. When Toscanini went to the NBC Sym Glantz followed
him. Herseth, who went to the Chicago Sym in 1948 and stayed, claims that Glantz had the greatest influence among
trumpet players of his time. Rachmaninoff even consulted Glantz on orchestration.Every trumpet player from that time to
the present day renders various Glantz trumpet exercises before being known as a master of the trumpet.
Glantz was universally admired in his day for his performances and in particular for this piece! I cannot understand
anyone's criticism of his playing in this piece as everyone I knew at the time found it spell binding--and I still do.
> (5) the magical, ethereal beauty of the
>>string playing in "Con mortuis"--feels like you're floating before the
>>sudden opening chords of "The Hut on Fowl's Legs"; and (6) the entire
>>orchestra for the final two sections...simply amazing stuff!
>
>Arturo plays the piece a notch higher.
>
>
>
Reiner,who conducted and recorded with the NBC Sym, greatly admired Toscanini's performances of this work. I hold both
renditions in high esteem but Maestro's recording has a clarity and atmosphere that Reiner cannot match. I concur with
your analysis. The recording is quite good for its sound qualities,but I must tell you that the live performance was
even more awesome.
Eric Nagamine
> (2) the
> >tenor horn (?) solo in "Bydlo." I don't know who the musician is that
> >played it on this recording but I have heard that it was not a
> >principal in the orchestra. It is the most even-toned, sure-sounding
> >solo I've heard and it has a very slight vibrato that is just
> >spellbinding.
>
> It's supposed to be a tuba, IIRC, and the vibrato throws me. Plus, here, as
> well as in Goldenberg, Toscanini I think captures the folk or ethnic elements
> better than Reiner. Unusual, because Reiner in the Hungarian repertoire or in
> Johann Strauss is usually right on top of the ethnic angle, that is, free
> rhythms, and melodic lines that sound more "natural" not like they are being
> played off staves and bars.
The tuba that Ravel orchestrated for has never been used in any
non-french orchestra recording that I know of. It is a sixed-valved
instrument in c that falls some place between a Euphonium and an F tuba.
I'd assume that Ravel would have been used to vibrato in the solo. I
wonder when Borrington is going do Pictures on original instruments :)
IIRC, the Kubelik and Ozawa recordings feature legendary CSO tubist
Arnold Jacobs playing it on BB flat and F tubas respectively. Later CSO
recordings I think use principal trombonist Jay Friedman, though the
Jarvi has Gene Porkorny doing it on tuba again. I'm not a 100% sure, but
I believe that it is the late Frank Crisafulli in the Reiner recording.
Eric Nagamine
> >I still say Arturo's trumpeter (Glantz?) does both of these better. Although I
> >have rarely heard a trumpeter screw up the first few bars of the piece!
> >
> Harry Glantz was the legendary maestro of the trumpet during his time. Herseth himself has stated that Glantz was one
> of four trumpeters with the greatest impact on his life. Glantz played with the San Francisco, Philadelphia and then
> the New York Philharmonic under first Mengelberg and then Toscanini. When Toscanini went to the NBC Sym Glantz followed
> him.
Twas also Toscanini who fired Glantz from the NBC shortly before he was
to retire IIRC.
Herseth, who went to the Chicago Sym in 1948 and stayed, claims that
Glantz had the greatest influence among
> trumpet players of his time. Rachmaninoff even consulted Glantz on orchestration.Every trumpet player from that time to
> the present day renders various Glantz trumpet exercises before being known as a master of the trumpet.
> Glantz was universally admired in his day for his performances and in particular for this piece! I cannot understand
> anyone's criticism of his playing in this piece as everyone I knew at the time found it spell binding--and I still do.
Glantz in his day was one of the major influences in the american school
of trumpet playing. His NYPSO and other NBC work is very good. His work
in the Mengelberg Heldenleben is outstanding. It's just that I don't
like his sound as recorded in the NBC Pictures recording. Anyone know if
it's Glantz on the Cantelli Pictures recording that's being reissued on
Testament? If it is, it would be interesting to hear the differences in
playing if any.
Similarly, Herseth has been a major influence in american trumpet
playing during his CSO tenure. Even with such great orchestral players
around as Ghitalla, Smith, Sachs, and Bilger, I can't think of any else
besides Vacchiano in the last 40 years who's had such a presence on the
american orchestral trumpet scene.
Tony Movshon
> What are the opinions on
> 1) Karel Ancerl/CzPO, live performance (with Dv 9) on Ermitage?
Thrilling, like the Dvorak 9 that comes with it. An indispensible disk.
> 2) Previn/VPO (with original piano version by Brendel) on Philips
> (Megaclassics)
Dunno.
--
Tony Movshon Center for Neural Science
mov...@nyu.edu New York University
Matthew B. Tepper
<39BB5431...@hawaii.rr.com>:
>Twas also Toscanini who fired Glantz from the NBC shortly before he was
>to retire IIRC.
Vraiment!? Pourquoi???
Sacqueboutier
>
> The tuba that Ravel orchestrated for has never been used in any
> non-french orchestra recording that I know of. It is a sixed-valved
> instrument in c that falls some place between a Euphonium and an F tuba.
> I'd assume that Ravel would have been used to vibrato in the solo. I
> wonder when Borrington is going do Pictures on original instruments :)
[Shudder!]
>
>
> IIRC, the Kubelik and Ozawa recordings feature legendary CSO tubist
> Arnold Jacobs playing it on BB flat and F tubas respectively. Later CSO
> recordings I think use principal trombonist Jay Friedman,
Freidman? Playing Bydlo on trombone? I don't think so Tim.
> though the
> Jarvi has Gene Porkorny doing it on tuba again. I'm not a 100% sure, but
> I believe that it is the late Frank Crisafulli in the Reiner recording.
Crisafulli was principal trombonist during part of Reiner's tenure.
Sorry, Charlie...that just doesn't sound like trombone to me. My
understanding is that Jacobs played it every time the CSO recorded
it. If I am incorrect, would Mr. Fogel please set me straight?
Also, I've never heard of Jacobs playing an F tuba. He did most of his
playing on his CC York.
--
AAAAAHHHHH! The atmosphere! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Don Patterson
* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@olg.com
* Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band
Eric Nagamine
>
> Eric Nagamine wrote:
>
> >
> > The tuba that Ravel orchestrated for has never been used in any
> > non-french orchestra recording that I know of. It is a sixed-valved
> > instrument in c that falls some place between a Euphonium and an F tuba.
> > I'd assume that Ravel would have been used to vibrato in the solo. I
> > wonder when Borrington is going do Pictures on original instruments :)
>
> [Shudder!]
>
> >
> >
> > IIRC, the Kubelik and Ozawa recordings feature legendary CSO tubist
> > Arnold Jacobs playing it on BB flat and F tubas respectively. Later CSO
> > recordings I think use principal trombonist Jay Friedman,
>
> Freidman? Playing Bydlo on trombone? I don't think so Tim.
Tim? According to the Jacobs bio, he did Bydlo on only two the 5
recordings he played on. I seem to recall a reference someplace that
Friedman had done Bydlo on either the Solti or Guilini pictures. When
refering to Friedman and Crisafulli, I'm refering of course to them
playing tenor tuba. The Summit excerpts disc by the CSO's Mulcahy has
Bydlo on tenor tuba.
>
> > though the
> > Jarvi has Gene Porkorny doing it on tuba again. I'm not a 100% sure, but
> > I believe that it is the late Frank Crisafulli in the Reiner recording.
>
> Crisafulli was principal trombonist during part of Reiner's tenure.
> Sorry, Charlie...that just doesn't sound like trombone to me. My
> understanding is that Jacobs played it every time the CSO recorded
> it. If I am incorrect, would Mr. Fogel please set me straight?
By the time Reiner did Pictures, Lambert was principal and Crisafulli
was 2nd. It is plausible that Crisafulli or Rada would have done Bydlo
on Tenor tuba with the other covering 2nd. Besides, since there are no
trombones in Bydlo, maybe it was even Lambert.
> Also, I've never heard of Jacobs playing an F tuba. He did most of his
> playing on his CC York.
Again from his bio, he experimented with a double tuba (BB flat/F) and
used the BB flat side of the horn for the Kubelik recording. Again from
the bio, the Vaughn Williams concerto recording with Barenboim was done
on a Boosey F. The Reiner Pathetique was done on an Dehmal F that Reiner
brought back from Vienna for Jacobs to use.
Eric Nagamine
>
> en...@hawaii.rr.com (Eric Nagamine) wrote in
> <39BB5431...@hawaii.rr.com>:
> >
> >Twas also Toscanini who fired Glantz from the NBC shortly before he was
> >to retire IIRC.
>
> Vraiment!? Pourquoi???
I wish I could find the copy of the article that i read about this.
Again IIRC, Glantz had some problems playing in a concert and AT got
pissed and fired him. Don't know if the pleadings of his colleagues got
his firing rescinded or not.
--
-----------
David Standifer
I have that issue and find it worthwhile for both works but not the best in
either. I honestly prefer Sinopoli for Pictures. Slower than usual in places,
but hardly what I'd call perverse. Much more passion than Muti.
David
bria...@my-deja.com
(snip)
Here is what I heard (or actually read on this newsgroup a little
while back). Reiner was rehearsing the piece in preparation for the
recording and went through the solo with the principal trombone (Robert
Lambert, at the time I guess?). Apparently he was not satisfied with
Lambert's rendition and so he turned to the assistant (Crisafulli?) and
was not happy with that one either. I'm not sure who Rada is but
didn't Byron Peebles play in the CSO during part of Reiner's tenure
too? Well, apparently when Reiner arrived at the third trombonist
(whoever it was, I don't know) and asked him to do the solo, the
terrified musician responded by saying that he did not have the proper
instrument to play it (the F horn or tuba...sorry, I'm a string
player). Reiner glared at him and then blurted out something to the
effect of, "Well, go get it! We'll wait!" So the the poor guy called
his wife and asked her to bring the instrument from home via train. He
left Orchestra Hall and met her halfway, got the instrument, went back
(while Reiner and the CSO were waiting or perhaps rehearsing other
sections), played the solo, and Reiner liked ended up liking it in
comparison to the others! So he had him play through it again and
that's the solo that's on the recording!
Sorry, guys. I spent about 30 minutes on Dejanews looking for the
original post where I first read the story but couldn't find it. It
seems like Deja has cleaned out its archives. But I distinctly
remember reading that story and thinking to myself, "That is so
unbelievable!" Apparently Reiner fired that poor fellow not too long
afterwards. Maybe I am completely in left field on this and perhaps
someone like Henry Fogel can correct me on this. I'm just trying to
restate as accurately as possible what I remember reading.
Just adding my half-a-cent worth,
Brian Park
Eric Nagamine
> Here is what I heard (or actually read on this newsgroup a little
> while back). Reiner was rehearsing the piece in preparation for the
> recording and went through the solo with the principal trombone (Robert
> Lambert, at the time I guess?). Apparently he was not satisfied with
> Lambert's rendition and so he turned to the assistant (Crisafulli?) and
> was not happy with that one either. I'm not sure who Rada is but
> didn't Byron Peebles play in the CSO during part of Reiner's tenure
> too? Well, apparently when Reiner arrived at the third trombonist
> (whoever it was, I don't know) and asked him to do the solo, the
> terrified musician responded by saying that he did not have the proper
> instrument to play it (the F horn or tuba...sorry, I'm a string
> player). Reiner glared at him and then blurted out something to the
> effect of, "Well, go get it! We'll wait!" So the the poor guy called
> his wife and asked her to bring the instrument from home via train. He
> left Orchestra Hall and met her halfway, got the instrument, went back
> (while Reiner and the CSO were waiting or perhaps rehearsing other
> sections), played the solo, and Reiner liked ended up liking it in
> comparison to the others! So he had him play through it again and
> that's the solo that's on the recording!
The assistant principal wasn't Robert Rada as I originally thought, but
John Swallow. Crisafulli was 2nd trombone. The story sounds a bit fishy.
Reiner could be tough, but I don't know if he'd be that impractical.
> Sorry, guys. I spent about 30 minutes on Dejanews looking for the
> original post where I first read the story but couldn't find it. It
> seems like Deja has cleaned out its archives. But I distinctly
> remember reading that story and thinking to myself, "That is so
> unbelievable!" Apparently Reiner fired that poor fellow not too long
> afterwards.
Probably unbelivable, as there weren't any changes in the section till
Byron Peebles came on board two years later.
--
Ron
Joao Baptista wrote:
>
> The Karajan/BPO in DG Originals is not a favourite of mine: too heavy, too
> slow. The Tuileries and the Dance of the Unhatched Chickens are good
> examples of this: no agility in the playing.
>
> Greetings,
>
> --
> ******************************
> Joao Pedro Baptista
> Lisboa - Portugal
> jpba...@netcabo.pt
> ******************************
But Karajan does the Great Gate of Kiev like nobody else! His timing is broad
and expansive and the effect is weighty, majestic and awe-aspiring; besides,
the orchestra is superb.
Regards,
Ron
H. Murty
Robert Cameron (b-came...@mailandnews.net) writes:
> edc...@postoffice2.bellatlantic.net wrote
> on Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:52:18 GMT:
>>I am just curious as to what the best recording or recordings of
>>Pictures At An Exhibition are?
>
> What are the opinions on
> 1) Karel Ancerl/CzPO, live performance (with Dv 9) on Ermitage?
> 2) Previn/VPO (with original piano version by Brendel) on Philips
> (Megaclassics)
>
> Robert Cameron
> (No mail please)
>
>
--
Dr. H. Murty
Sikorsky Aircraft
vme...@mmcable.com
I have asked several sources about this, including William Vacchiano, who joined the NBC Sym in 1938 at the age of 26.
He has been a good source of information about Glantz including the instruments he used, the mouthpieces, lip
positionings etc. I have also asked about the trumpet playing in Pictures. I will relate what I learn when I hear
back.
Frankly I never heard this at the time,and it never came up in conversation. Of course I wasn't privy to everything.
In 1954 Glantz was 58 years old (b. January 1, 1896) and as "Bud" Herseth has often said, Glantz was known for his
reliability and ability to ALWAYS deliver precisely what was demanded from him--he never failed. And in 1964, which
would have been the 10th anniversary of such an incident, Frank Kaderabek, Harry Glantz, "Bud" Herseth,Vincent
Cichowicz, etc were at a meeting in New York City and no one remarked about a "firing" of ten years before.
If you locate your source please post it. I do not doubt you read it--I'm just interested in who said it.
Eric Nagamine
I did some research and I still can't find the article. However, while
browsing through some reference materials last night, I came across a
Glantz bio that says that he did play through the end of the existance
of the NBC symphony, so my original source may have been incorrect. I
guess he went on to play in the Symphony of the Air afterwards.
Edward A. Cowan
I'm not sure about the SOA affiliation of Harry Glantz after the end of
the NBC SO. However, the list of personnel of the NBC SO in the booklet
that came with RCA-Victor LM-6711, "A Toscanini Treasury of Historic
Broadcasts," five LPs, shows Glantz only as one of the participants in
one or more of the broadcasts contained in the set. Only three of the
seven named trumpet players are marked with an asterisk as having been
"charter members" of the original NBC SO (Bernard Baker, Sol Kass, and
Humbert Pennino), and none are marked with two asterisks, a marking
which would indicate a player who remained with the NBC SO from 1937 to
1954, from beginning to end of the history of that orchestra. But I
think that Glantz did serve to the end of the orchestra, although he was
not there at the beginning.
--
E.A.C.
Matthew B. Tepper
<1egy1l3.1n0u1qp1cerd56N%eac...@anet-dfw.com>:
>I'm not sure about the SOA affiliation of Harry Glantz after the end of
>the NBC SO. However, the list of personnel of the NBC SO in the booklet
>that came with RCA-Victor LM-6711, "A Toscanini Treasury of Historic
>Broadcasts," five LPs, shows Glantz only as one of the participants in
>one or more of the broadcasts contained in the set. Only three of the
>seven named trumpet players are marked with an asterisk as having been
>"charter members" of the original NBC SO (Bernard Baker, Sol Kass, and
>Humbert Pennino), and none are marked with two asterisks, a marking
>which would indicate a player who remained with the NBC SO from 1937 to
>1954, from beginning to end of the history of that orchestra. But I
>think that Glantz did serve to the end of the orchestra, although he was
>not there at the beginning.
An old ATS LP of the Brandenburg Concerto #2 (performance form 1938, if
memory serves) contained an announcement that the trumpet was played by
Bernard Baker.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
vme...@mmcable.com
I finally have heard from a sufficient number of sources to know that Toscanini did not fire Glantz. In fact, Toscanini
never fired anyone. Nor did Toscanini ever hire anyone. He never bothered with such things. Further Maestro would
never have fired anyone so close to retirement. Toscanini was so pre-occupied about everyone's future employment that
he continually put off his retirement. And he was genuinely concerned about each and every one of his players.
As further proof, Glantz not only stayed on with the Symphony of the Air, the successor to the NBC Symphony Orchestra,
but also remained under individual contract with NBC for two years thereafter. Glantz who was born in the Ukraine died
in 1982 in Miami. A book on Glantz will be published soon along with a book on William Vacchiano; both authored by
Andre M. Smith.
vme...@mmcable.com
>I'm not sure about the SOA affiliation of Harry Glantz after the end of
>the NBC SO. However, the list of personnel of the NBC SO in the booklet
>that came with RCA-Victor LM-6711, "A Toscanini Treasury of Historic
>Broadcasts," five LPs, shows Glantz only as one of the participants in
>one or more of the broadcasts contained in the set. Only three of the
>seven named trumpet players are marked with an asterisk as having been
>"charter members" of the original NBC SO (Bernard Baker, Sol Kass, and
>Humbert Pennino), and none are marked with two asterisks, a marking
>which would indicate a player who remained with the NBC SO from 1937 to
>1954, from beginning to end of the history of that orchestra. But I
>think that Glantz did serve to the end of the orchestra, although he was
>not there at the beginning.
See my earlier response to Eric that Toscanini did not in fact fire Glantz.
As for the SOA, yes, Glantz stayed with it for a couple of years. He was with the NBCSO from 1938 to 1954 (to the end).
The trumpet players who were charter members were Baker, Kass and Pennino.
Eric Nagamine
> Glantz who was born in the Ukraine died
> in 1982 in Miami. A book on Glantz will be published soon along with a book on William Vacchiano; both authored by
> Andre M. Smith.
Do you have any publisher details on both books? Would make for most
interesting reading with their presence on the NY musical scene during
some interesting times.
vme...@mmcable.com
I'll probably post a new message for this as this thread is getting a little old and others might be interested and miss
the news.
Tripletz
digital recordings of anything, I believe--and it has held up very well throu
time.