Nimbus now selling CD-Rs
Steve de Mena
Herring", from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed
compact discs. Doing a little googling I came across an article that
says Nimbus switched to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago. Lyrita
does this too, for all their releases. I was a little surprised to
see Nimbus do this as I recall that they had the first, or one of the
first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:GZydneZ2ErFN6v3V...@giganews.com:
Yes, at Wyastone Leys, in Wales, if I recall correctly.
I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has been
issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural recordings
with added reverb. Tarted up? Kind of ironic, considering the opera....
I looked briefly online for a review of this issue, but couldn't find one.
(Your Google-Fu tends to be better than mine, so perhaps you can assist?)
One thing I have learned is that it is on three discs, but that probably
means it's one disc per act, and Nimbus has kept the price down.
As for Lyrita, the new CD of Brian Symphonies ## 6 & 16 (and one by Arnold
Cooke) looks silvery, has a label printed right onto the disc, and has little
letters and lines and things in the middle, so if these are CDRs, they look
(and of course sound) exactly like pressed CDs. And as I think I told you
privately last year, if that's the case, I waive my objections.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Andrew Rose
> Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:GZydneZ2ErFN6v3V...@giganews.com:
>
>> I received a new Nimbus CD release this week (Britten's "Albert Herring",
>> from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed compact discs.
>> Doing a little googling I came across an article that says Nimbus switched
>> to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago. Lyrita does this too, for all their
>> releases. I was a little surprised to see Nimbus do this as I recall that
>> they had the first, or one of the first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
>
> Yes, at Wyastone Leys, in Wales, if I recall correctly.
>
> I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has been
> issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural recordings
> with added reverb. Tarted up? Kind of ironic, considering the opera....
>
> I looked briefly online for a review of this issue, but couldn't find one.
> (Your Google-Fu tends to be better than mine, so perhaps you can assist?)
> One thing I have learned is that it is on three discs, but that probably
> means it's one disc per act, and Nimbus has kept the price down.
>
> As for Lyrita, the new CD of Brian Symphonies ## 6 & 16 (and one by Arnold
> Cooke) looks silvery, has a label printed right onto the disc, and has little
> letters and lines and things in the middle, so if these are CDRs, they look
> (and of course sound) exactly like pressed CDs. And as I think I told you
> privately last year, if that's the case, I waive my objections.
>
Nimbus handled the transfer, remastering, manufacture and distribution
of all the new Lyrita CDs. I believe it was only through personal
contacts between Nimbus and Lyrita that the latter could be persuaded to
come back into the music business, despite a number of previous offers.
Nimbus went bust in ~2000 partly as a result of over-reliance on pressed
CDs that were sitting in warehouses visibly not moving. The company was
reborn a few months later with a new business strategy, part of which
included a switch to short-run CDs and therefore CD-R. If a CD is only
ever going to sell 60-70 copies worldwide there's little point in
pressing 1000, when you can made them 2 or 3 at a time.
I gather their short-run systems run pretty much flat-out, 24 hours a
day, but rarely making more than a handful of any particular CD at a
time. Without this they'd remain a memory, as would many of the labels
for whom they make CDs.
--
Andrew Rose - Pristine Classical
The online home of Classical Music: www.pristineclassical.com
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:GZydneZ2ErFN6v3V...@giganews.com:
>
>> I received a new Nimbus CD release this week (Britten's "Albert Herring",
>> from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed compact discs.
>> Doing a little googling I came across an article that says Nimbus switched
>> to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago. Lyrita does this too, for all their
>> releases. I was a little surprised to see Nimbus do this as I recall that
>> they had the first, or one of the first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
>
> Yes, at Wyastone Leys, in Wales, if I recall correctly.
>
> I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has been
> issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural recordings
> with added reverb. Tarted up? Kind of ironic, considering the opera....
>
> I looked briefly online for a review of this issue, but couldn't find one.
> (Your Google-Fu tends to be better than mine, so perhaps you can assist?)
> One thing I have learned is that it is on three discs, but that probably
> means it's one disc per act, and Nimbus has kept the price down.
Hi,
This is a new release (it wasn't even in iTunes' database yet) and I
got it from MDT. More information here:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NI5824-6.htm
Yes, one act per disc. The masters come from a tape archive in
Copenhagen, and I believe they (one Morten Hein) did the transfer.
Although 3 CDs it was pretty reasonably priced for us at $16.41 plus
shipping.
Steve
Kirk McElhearn
I'd suggest you rip the disc so you don't have any surprises ten years
down the line...
Makes me wonder, though, all the early predictions that CDs had short
lifespans (not CD-Rs but pressed CDs) don't seem to have come true. I
have CDs that are more than 20 years old, and I've never found one
that's got a glitch.
This said, since most of the music I listen to is ripped, the only time
I'd notice is when ripping CDs.
Kirk
--
Read my blog, Kirkville
http://www.mcelhearn.com
Steffen Buehler
> Makes me wonder, though, all the early predictions that CDs had short
> lifespans (not CD-Rs but pressed CDs) don't seem to have come true. I
> have CDs that are more than 20 years old, and I've never found one
> that's got a glitch.
>
> This said, since most of the music I listen to is ripped, the only
> time I'd notice is when ripping CDs.
One reason could be that usually CD-Rs are labelled with a permanent
marker that could sooner or later damage the data:
http://www.tapeonline.com/articles/disc-care.aspx
Regards
Steffen
Kip Williams
> I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has been
> issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural recordings
> with added reverb. Tarted up? Kind of ironic, considering the opera....
What's that? The Bimbo of the Regiment? The Italian Girl in Underwear?
Butterfly Madam? Carmen Get It?
Kip W
Kirk McElhearn
<steffen...@mailinator.com> said:
I never heard that before...
As for this:
According to the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST),
a properly cared for disc which is stored under recommended storage
conditions can have a very long life expectancy. NSIT's research has
concluded that CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life
expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more.
That's what's called a guesstimate...
Kip Williams
> I have never found a pattern for CD-Rs going bad.
If it's not backed up, it goes bad.
Kip W
Andrew Rose
If the back-up was made on the same media at the same time, they'll both
go bad simultaneously!
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:g3qpm1$i68$3...@registered.motzarella.org:
"Albert Herring," where a very important plot point is that the town cannot
celebrate May Day properly by electing a Queen of the May because all of the
girls are "harlots."
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:4860c2f2$0$870$ba4a...@news.orange.fr:
> On 2008-06-24 06:28:00 +0200, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> said:
>
>> I received a new Nimbus CD release this week (Britten's "Albert Herring",
>> from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed compact discs.
>> Doing a little googling I came across an article that says Nimbus switched
>> to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago. Lyrita does this too, for all their
>> releases. I was a little surprised to see Nimbus do this as I recall that
>> they had the first, or one of the first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
>
> I'd suggest you rip the disc so you don't have any surprises ten years
> down the line...
>
> Makes me wonder, though, all the early predictions that CDs had short
> lifespans (not CD-Rs but pressed CDs) don't seem to have come true. I
> have CDs that are more than 20 years old, and I've never found one
> that's got a glitch.
The first CD I ever bought, back in March 1984, was the Perlman/Giulini
Beethoven Violin Concerto, and every now and then I take it out and listen to
it and find that it's still intact.
> This said, since most of the music I listen to is ripped, the only time
> I'd notice is when ripping CDs.
--
Matthew B. Tepper
> Hi,
>
> This is a new release (it wasn't even in iTunes' database yet) and I
> got it from MDT. More information here:
> http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NI5824-6.htm
As a matter of fact, I found that page last night simply by Googling on the
terms "Albert Herring" and "Nimbus."
> Yes, one act per disc. The masters come from a tape archive in Copenhagen,
> and I believe they (one Morten Hein) did the transfer.
So does that mean no fake reverb has been added?
> Although 3 CDs it was pretty reasonably priced for us at $16.41 plus
> shipping.
Yes, which is what I meant by Nimbus keeping the price down even though it
was on three CDs instead of two. I would complain if they had issued it on
more discs than needed and priced it by the disc (as many of us did with
regard to Testament's issue of the Keilberth "Rheingold"), so it's only fair
that I give them praise for the lower price.
wkasimer
> I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has been
> issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural recordings
> with added reverb.
When was the last time you bought a Nimbus "Prima Voce" CD? They've
gotten considerably better in the past few years. The "Ambisonic"
process is long dead.
Bill
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:g3qpm1$i68$3...@registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>> I am desolate to see that such a potentially important document has
>>> been issued on Nimbus, considering the way they tart up their monaural
>>> recordings with added reverb. Tarted up? Kind of ironic, considering
>>> the opera....
>> What's that? The Bimbo of the Regiment? The Italian Girl in Underwear?
>> Butterfly Madam? Carmen Get It?
>
> "Albert Herring," where a very important plot point is that the town cannot
> celebrate May Day properly by electing a Queen of the May because all of the
> girls are "harlots."
Well, there you are. My serious guess would have been Lulu.
Kip W
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:ScWdnXU_ao5nAv3V...@giganews.com:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a new release (it wasn't even in iTunes' database yet) and I
>> got it from MDT. More information here:
>> http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NI5824-6.htm
>
> As a matter of fact, I found that page last night simply by Googling on the
> terms "Albert Herring" and "Nimbus."
>
>> Yes, one act per disc. The masters come from a tape archive in Copenhagen,
>> and I believe they (one Morten Hein) did the transfer.
>
> So does that mean no fake reverb has been added?
Listening to a little bit now. Not knowing the sound on the original
tape, nor the hall, I don't think any has been added, or if it has,
just a touch. If you want a sample, let me know.
Steve
wkasimer
> If you want a sample, let me know.
I've already ordered a copy, but how's the sound generally?
Bill
Steve de Mena
It's decent, no distortion, good frequency response. The only negative
is that the vocals (and to some extent the orchestra) are a little
more distant than I would have liked, but that is often the case for
live recordings like this. They had an early tape recorder at the
theatre so the source is a tape, with no acetate noise that you might
expect from non-tape sources.
Steve
jrs...@aol.com
> Steffen Buehler <steffen.bueh...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >One reason could be that usually CD-Rs are labelled with a permanent
> >marker that could sooner or later damage the data:
> >http://www.tapeonline.com/articles/disc-care.aspx
>
> year despite being completely unlabeled in any manner. It was a Sony disc.
>
> I bought a CD-R that went bad after a few years. The label side was made for
> a thermal printer, but they had pasted on a paper label. Don't know if that
> is significant.
>
> I just played the first CD-R I ever made at home, 10 years ago, and it
> played perfectly. I had labeled it with a Sharpie.
I'd rather be a sharpie than be ripped.
--Jeff
Richard S. Sandmeyer
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kirk McElhearn <kir...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:4860c2f2$0$870$ba4a...@news.orange.fr:
>
> > On 2008-06-24 06:28:00 +0200, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> said:
> >
> >> I received a new Nimbus CD release this week (Britten's "Albert Herring",
> >> from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed compact discs.
> >> Doing a little googling I came across an article that says Nimbus switched
> >> to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago. Lyrita does this too, for all their
> >> releases. I was a little surprised to see Nimbus do this as I recall that
> >> they had the first, or one of the first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
> >
> > I'd suggest you rip the disc so you don't have any surprises ten years
> > down the line...
> >
> > Makes me wonder, though, all the early predictions that CDs had short
> > lifespans (not CD-Rs but pressed CDs) don't seem to have come true. I
> > have CDs that are more than 20 years old, and I've never found one
> > that's got a glitch.
>
> The first CD I ever bought, back in March 1984, was the Perlman/Giulini
> Beethoven Violin Concerto, and every now and then I take it out and listen to
> it and find that it's still intact.
>
> > This said, since most of the music I listen to is ripped, the only time
> > I'd notice is when ripping CDs.
Aside from some of the PDO-produced CDs that bronzed, I've never had
either a CD or a CD-R go bad. I've been collecting the former since
1984 and making and using the latter occasionally for at least a decade.
As for the comment about Lyrita using CD-Rs, that isn't true of all of
their recent releases is it? I have, for example, a Lyrita CD of the
Bax Symphonies #2 and #5 purchased within the past few months and it
certainly doesn't appear to be a CD-R (unless the newer CD-Rs look just
like normal CDs).
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Steve de Mena
It should be true for all the Lyritas (except the ones from the
1990s). It just looks good. Check yours - do you notice the lack of
an IFPI (plant) code, and a "T80FD...." [indicating an 80 minute CD-R
blank] code in the inner-circle?
Steve
Norman M. Schwartz
>>> On 2008-06-24 06:28:00 +0200, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> I received a new Nimbus CD release this week (Britten's "Albert
>>>> Herring", from 1949) and see that they are CD-Rs and not pressed
>>>> compact discs. Doing a little googling I came across an article
>>>> that says Nimbus switched to "on demand CD-Rs" four years ago.
>>>> Lyrita does this too, for all their releases. I was a little
>>>> surprised to see Nimbus do this as I recall that they had the
>>>> first, or one of the first, CD pressing plants in the UK.
>>>
>>> Makes me wonder, though, all the early predictions that CDs had
>>> short lifespans (not CD-Rs but pressed CDs) don't seem to have come
>>> true. I have CDs that are more than 20 years old, and I've never
>>> found one that's got a glitch.
>
> As for the comment about Lyrita using CD-Rs, that isn't true of all of
> their recent releases is it? I have, for example, a Lyrita CD of the
> Bax Symphonies #2 and #5 purchased within the past few months and it
> certainly doesn't appear to be a CD-R (unless the newer CD-Rs look
> just like normal CDs).
You could download one of the several free CD-R identifying tools. I often
use them to identify the actual manufacturer of a CD-R and also to help
distinguish between a pressed CD and a CD-R whenever it appears 'suspect'.
Richard S. Sandmeyer
Thanks. I looked for the lettering on the inner ring that Steve de Mena
mentioned in an earlier reply, and the Lyrita disc in question is indeed
a CD-R. The quality of the labeling and the fact that it had a silver
color just like a standard pressed CD was enough to keep me from
suspecting. The older CD-Rs, such as some I have from Arkiv Music, had
a blue color that made them impossible not to notice.
Actually, I have no objection to a CD-R so long as its life expectancy
is sufficiently long and its quality is as good as a pressed CD.
However, it would be nice if the labels that produce them would make the
fact known to their customers (Arkiv does, of course). Some of the more
cautious customers might like to rip them immediately on receipt just in
case the life of CD-Rs turns out to be short.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:cd4d140a-84aa-4027-ae0f-41184d954dd9
@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
I don't buy their "Pseudo Voce" CDs, for the same reason that I don't feel
the obligation to take a second swig from a carton of soured milk.
Many years ago, I did buy their initial release of Sir Thomas Beecham's
"Zauberflöte," which had a huge, beautifully presented booklet and a nicely
designed box. I then (by plan) chucked the CDs, which had the recording in
a truly horrible transfer, and slipped the Dutton issue into the box (case,
booklet and all) in its place. I've never regretted this move.
Matthew B. Tepper
Thanks, I think I'll just go ahead and buy it. Believe me, if Nimbus had
added reverb of the kind I associate with their past historical issues, it
would be all too obvious.
If this represents a leaving-behind of their previous transfer paradigm, I
would be delighted.
William Sommerwerck
> added reverb of the kind I associate with their past historical issues, it
> would be all too obvious.
Nimbus does not add reverb to historical recordings. Rather, they record the
acoustic output of an acoustic phonograph -- which, for pre-electrical
recordings, is the way the recording was _supposed_ to be heard.
I very much like the Prima Voce recordings. They have a life and "bloom"
that is missing from an electrical tranfer.
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
>> Thanks, I think I'll just go ahead and buy it. Believe me, if Nimbus had
>> added reverb of the kind I associate with their past historical issues, it
>> would be all too obvious.
>
> Nimbus does not add reverb to historical recordings. Rather, they record
> the acoustic output of an acoustic phonograph -- which, for pre-electrical
> recordings, is the way the recording was _supposed_ to be heard.
Indeed, if that's what turns you on. I've heard recordings made with finer
needles which extract more of the sound out of an original recording than
previous reproduction methods have been able to do. Moreover, Nimbus insists
on making these re-recordings in a very, very, VERY reverberant room, so that
echoes and fuzziness and smearing is pasted over the original recording, and
I call that phony.
> I very much like the Prima Voce recordings. They have a life and "bloom"
> that is missing from an electrical tranfer.
And you're welcome to them. I'll listen to MO-T and Marston transfers, thank
you very much. And occasionally Dutton, when I want strong interventionist,
and Symposium, when I want non-interventionist.
Steve de Mena
> Actually, I have no objection to a CD-R so long as its life expectancy
> is sufficiently long and its quality is as good as a pressed CD.
> However, it would be nice if the labels that produce them would make the
> fact known to their customers (Arkiv does, of course).
Regarding Arkiv making the fact known to their customers, I have to
disagree in one instance - if you submit a title on Amazon that you
are looking for (which is not currently available) and specify a
price, if an Amazon marketplace seller gets it in and is willing to
sell at at the price you specified, it is sent to you automatically.
I got an ArkivMusic CD-R once when doing this, which kind of surprised
me, as I assumed I would get a pressed CD.
Steve
Steve de Mena
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in
> news:AdCdnRTNJ7wzK_zV...@comcast.com:
>
>>> Thanks, I think I'll just go ahead and buy it. Believe me, if Nimbus had
>>> added reverb of the kind I associate with their past historical issues, it
>>> would be all too obvious.
>> Nimbus does not add reverb to historical recordings. Rather, they record
>> the acoustic output of an acoustic phonograph -- which, for pre-electrical
>> recordings, is the way the recording was _supposed_ to be heard.
>
> Indeed, if that's what turns you on. I've heard recordings made with finer
> needles which extract more of the sound out of an original recording than
> previous reproduction methods have been able to do. Moreover, Nimbus insists
> on making these re-recordings in a very, very, VERY reverberant room, so that
> echoes and fuzziness and smearing is pasted over the original recording, and
> I call that phony.
>
>> I very much like the Prima Voce recordings. They have a life and "bloom"
>> that is missing from an electrical tranfer.
>
> And you're welcome to them. I'll listen to MO-T and Marston transfers, thank
> you very much. And occasionally Dutton, when I want strong interventionist,
> and Symposium, when I want non-interventionist.
Matthew, BTW, got the Brahms 3 and 4 with Koussevitzky on Pearl and
the 4th was a marked improvement over the united archives transfer. I
listened to the entire CD, no fatigue at all, and enjoyed the music.
Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:VZednY_LV-PsWfzV...@giganews.com:
> Matthew, BTW, got the Brahms 3 and 4 with Koussevitzky on Pearl and
> the 4th was a marked improvement over the united archives transfer. I
> listened to the entire CD, no fatigue at all, and enjoyed the music.
I'm glad you liked it! I love those performances, too.
I just now listened to Cédric Tiberghien's Brahms PC #1, a CD I bought a few
weeks ago when I had an advantageous Borders coupon and the Westwood store
actually finally had it. I'm not sure I would rank it alongside Fleisher/
Szell, as the Fanfare reviewer has done, but I think it is excellent.
Kirk McElhearn
<rich...@nospam.verizon.net> said:
> Actually, I have no objection to a CD-R so long as its life expectancy
> is sufficiently long and its quality is as good as a pressed CD.
> However, it would be nice if the labels that produce them would make
> the fact known to their customers (Arkiv does, of course). Some of the
> more cautious customers might like to rip them immediately on receipt
> just in case the life of CD-Rs turns out to be short.
Not only is the life likely to be shorter, but they are much more
fragile - the layer of plastic covering the data is much more liable to
scratches than pressed CDs.
Steve de Mena
> robust top layer.
> Using CD-R's can have major benefits if you want to
> maintain a big catalogue with low sales per title. One thousand titles
> with a stock of 2000 CD's per title will cost a lot of money and space.
All of that is true, but really doesn't speak to the issues of
longevity or durability being discussed.
Steve
Andrew Rose
> Kirk McElhearn wrote:
> robust top layer. Using CD-R's can have major benefits if you want to
> maintain a big catalogue with low sales per title. One thousand titles
> with a stock of 2000 CD's per title will cost a lot of money and space.
>
I understand that Nimbus use Sony CD-Rs, which are indeed silver on both
sides. This would appear to be confirmed by analysis of a 2005 Divine
Art CD made by Nimbus, though I can only assume they're still using the
same media.
We switched last autumn to Taiyo Yuden's Watershield discs (from their
regular printables, which are about half the price), which not only
yield lower low-level error rates than any other CD-R we've ever seen,
but as the name suggests, are water-resistant, in that the ink won't run
on the (glossy) printed side. The playback side is the familiar light
greenish-blue, and the manufacturer offers a 100 year durable data
guarantee on the discs (though how one would take advantage of this in
2107 I don't know!).
I do think people's fears about CD-R vs. pressed discs is largely
founded on experience with cheap, low-quality discs, and unfortunate
episodes with certain types of marker pen and sticky labels. One label
manufacturer apparently continues to sell labels which can cause some
discs to become unplayable in about 4 years thanks to the glue used on
those labels...
But properly made, high-quality CD-Rs should be at least a match (and as
I suggested, potentially with much lower error rates) for any pressed CD.
And as Chel suggests, if we couldn't burn CDs to order we simply
couldn't maintain our catalogue of about 240 releases on disc.
Andrew Rose
As I've mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, Taiyo Yuden guarantee
data integrity of their Watershield CD-R discs for 100 years.
If you're still worried about them after that then I'm afraid I don't
plan to be around to address your concerns... ;-)
wkasimer
<grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Nimbus does not add reverb to historical recordings. Rather, they record the
> acoustic output of an acoustic phonograph -- which, for pre-electrical
> recordings, is the way the recording was _supposed_ to be heard.
A few points:
1) I don't believe that Nimbus uses this process any longer, and now
uses a process much more like what other labels use when transferring
material from 78's.
2) Back in the day, not too many people listened to their acoustical
78's through an 8-foot tall horn, in a sizable and resonant concert
hall.
3) When Nimbus employed this process, they made a very fundamental
mistake and also used it for electricals.
> I very much like the Prima Voce recordings. They have a life and "bloom"
> that is missing from an electrical tranfer.
I hate the old ones. The transfers rob voices of their individuality
and remove any possibility of hearing detail through the sonic mud.
I'm very glad that Nimbus has chosen to give the process up. Their
Gorin CD's, as well as the recent Kullman, Gueden, and Gobbi CD's
sound quite good to me.
Bill
Andrew Rose
When I spoke at some length to Adrian Farmer of Nimbus last November he
stated that they still believed this process to be the best around* -
though they may well have modified and tweaked it considerably over the
years, it's still the way they do things there.
(*Until he heard my XR-remastered Caruso, which he felt was a clear
improvement on what they'd managed to achieve.)
wkasimer
> When I spoke at some length to Adrian Farmer of Nimbus last November he
> stated that they still believed this process to be the best around* -
> though they may well have modified and tweaked it considerably over the
> years, it's still the way they do things there.
Are they using this process for electricals? If so, it's hard to
tell.
Bill
Ed Romans
>
> But properly made, high-quality CD-Rs should be at least a match (and as
> I suggested, potentially with much lower error rates) for any pressed CD.
>
All the predictions for lifetime though are based purely on the
stability of the dye (and accelerated lifetime tests). Very little
attention, as far as I can tell, has been paid to the long term
"mechanical" durability of the different layers. It appears to be
pretty good so far for all the brands I've used but I still think
people should be a little cautious. The only problem I've ever had
with a CD-R was with a Taiyo Yuden disc which got some sort of mold
growing in the printed label (it still played last time I checked.)
Ed
Andrew Rose
As I understood it, yes they are. I should add that this was a
late-night conversation over too many pints of beer... ;-)
Andrew Rose
We've had no-brand discs dissolve under the sticky label glue and good
quality printable discs run into difficulties with very, very
slow-drying inkjet ink, making the surfaces just sticky enough to cause
problems when posted long (i.e. slow) distances.
That's why we're happy to use the TY Watershields, which have exhibited
none of these problems, and despite them costing at least double the
price of a regular top-grade CD-R.
Ed Romans
>> We've had no-brand discs dissolve under the sticky label glue and good
sorry I realise I was a bit unclear: the TY disc I had a mold problem
with was a printable disc. (Bought in hot and humid Japan, stored in
the dark in cold and wet Scotland, so probably a bit unlucky.) But
this is nothing like the persistant mold problems I have with some lps
and lp boxes..............
Ed
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:f9958c51-e318-461a-b207-
8de010...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
Listen to the Beecham "Zauberflöte," and you can tell.
Oh boy, can you tell!
wkasimer
> > Are they using this process for electricals? If so, it's hard to tell.
>
> Listen to the Beecham "Zauberflöte," and you can tell.
The Beecham Zauberflote was issued in 1999. Last time I checked, my
calendar is now turned to 2008.
Bill
Dan Amodeo
> According to the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a
> properly cared for disc which is stored under recommended storage
> conditions can have a very long life expectancy. NSIT's research has
> concluded that CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy
> of 100 to 200 years or more.
>
> That's what's called a guesstimate...
But if they don't last that long, you could probably get your money back.
Dan Amodeo
Martin Leese
> When was the last time you bought a Nimbus "Prima Voce" CD? They've
> gotten considerably better in the past few years. The "Ambisonic"
> process is long dead.
What I wish would die is the urban myth that
"the Ambisonic process" has anything to do
with 78s or horn gramophones.
Nimus produce three ranges of CDs. One is
the Prima Voce series. The other two series
are contemporary recordings, and these also
say on the back that they use "the Ambisonic
process". "The Ambisonic process" was also
used by companies other than Nimbus Records
to produce about 200 CDs and LPs. Over at
Ambisonia.com you can download, for free,
170 or so pieces using "the Ambisonic
process". (Almost all of these are full
sphere recordings.)
None of these recordings came anywhere near
a 78 or a horn gramophone. I hope this makes
it clear that "the Ambisonic process" is
unconnected with either. Perhaps now this
urban myth can be laid to rest
--
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: ple...@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
Derek Haslam
"Richard S. Sandmeyer" <rich...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> Thanks. I looked for the lettering on the inner ring that Steve de Mena
> mentioned in an earlier reply, and the Lyrita disc in question is indeed
> a CD-R. The quality of the labeling and the fact that it had a silver
> color just like a standard pressed CD was enough to keep me from
> suspecting. The older CD-Rs, such as some I have from Arkiv Music, had
> a blue color that made them impossible not to notice.
I had a look at one of the most recent Lyritas (Bax 6/DelMar) and it
does indeed have a T80FD code. Comparing it with one of the earlier
Lyritas (Alwyn: Lyra Angelica etc) shows the absence of this code.
What I hadn't realized though is that those older Lyritas were also
mastered by Nimbus; the Alwyn says so in the inner ring.
Derek Haslam
--
Mastery of the rules is a prerequisite for breaking them creatively.
William Sommerwerck
news:Xns9AC7D1E344A...@216.168.3.30...
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in
> news:AdCdnRTNJ7wzK_zV...@comcast.com:
>>> Thanks, I think I'll just go ahead and buy it. Believe me, if Nimbus had
>>> added reverb of the kind I associate with their past historical issues,
it
>>> would be all too obvious.
>> Nimbus does not add reverb to historical recordings. Rather, they record
>> the acoustic output of an acoustic phonograph -- which, for
pre-electrical
>> recordings, is the way the recording was _supposed_ to be heard.
> Indeed, if that's what turns you on. I've heard recordings made with finer
> needles which extract more of the sound out of an original recording than
> previous reproduction methods have been able to do. Moreover, Nimbus
> insists on making these re-recordings in a very, very, VERY reverberant
> room, so that echoes and fuzziness and smearing is pasted over the
> original recording, and I call that phony.
They have never struck me as overly reverberant. However...
They are Ambisonic recordings, which are meant to be heard properly decoded.
Ambisonic recordings (like most surround recordings) often sound a bit too
reverberant in stereo.
William Sommerwerck
78's through an 8-foot tall horn, in a sizable and resonant concert hall.
Actually, it's a recital hall (I believe).
3) When Nimbus employed this process, they made a very fundamental
mistake and also used it for electricals.
I would agree with you. Which is why I said what I said.
William Sommerwerck
>> If so, it's hard to tell.
> As I understood it, yes they are.
There's no question about it. I have several Prima Voce transfers of
electrical recordings, and they freely admit to reproducing them
acoustically. Which, I agree, is wrong.
William Sommerwerck
> "the Ambisonic process" has anything to do
> with 78s or horn gramophones.
> Nimus produce three ranges of CDs. One is
> the Prima Voce series. The other two series
> are contemporary recordings, and these also
> say on the back that they use "the Ambisonic
> process". "The Ambisonic process" was also
> used by companies other than Nimbus Records
> to produce about 200 CDs and LPs. Over at
> Ambisonia.com you can download, for free,
> 170 or so pieces using "the Ambisonic
> process". (Almost all of these are full
> sphere recordings.)
> None of these recordings came anywhere near
> a 78 or a horn gramophone. I hope this makes
> it clear that "the Ambisonic process" is
> unconnected with either. Perhaps now this
> urban myth can be laid to rest.
I don't understand what you mean, Martin. "The Ambisonic Process" can be
used to record any acoustic source -- including an acoustic phonograph or
gramophone with a huge horn in a recital hall.
Martin Leese
Many audio journalists got it into their
heads that the Ambisonic process meant
nothing else. That it meant *only* 78s and
horn gramophones.
This is understandable, but still annoying.
After all, every Prima Voce CD says
"Ambisonic" on the back. Unless you read
the back of a Nimbus CD which is *not* Prima
Voce, and see that it *also* says "Ambisonic",
then this is a natural assumption to make.
The problem is that, because of this urban
myth, when many people see "Ambisonic" they
think "78s and horn gramphones". As you
have pointed out, Ambisonics is not limited
to this. In fact, as uses of Ambisonics go,
this one is pretty bizarre.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
And they're smeared all over with reverb, like the way Aschenbach is tarted
up with make-up at the end of Visconti's film of "Death in Venice."
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
So in order to hear their transfers of acoustic recordings of singers
properly, I have to buy decoding equipment for an obscure form of
multichannel sound that only this one label has ever used, and of which
probably not many people have ever even heard? Oink oink flap flap!
Matthew B. Tepper
0af997...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Indeed, but that long-ago swig from the carton of spoiled milk has not made
me particularly eager to try another of their daily products.
Steve de Mena
This isn't an endorsement at all, but other companies besides Nimbus
used Ambisonics.
http://members.cox.net/surround/uhjdisc/uhjhtm37.htm
Steve
Steve de Mena
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:HeOdnQ4LQI82e__V...@comcast.com:
>
>>>> Are they using this process for electricals?
>>>> If so, it's hard to tell.
>>> As I understood it, yes they are.
>> There's no question about it. I have several Prima Voce transfers of
>> electrical recordings, and they freely admit to reproducing them
>> acoustically. Which, I agree, is wrong.
>
> And they're smeared all over with reverb, like the way Aschenbach is tarted
> up with make-up at the end of Visconti's film of "Death in Venice."
Amusing analogy.
Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:y_Cdnf48v_-Hkv7V...@giganews.com:
Some of which labels are represented in my collection -- I had no idea.
Walter Traprock
Andrew Rose
Andrew Rose
From http://www.wyastone.co.uk/nrl/pv_transfer.html :
"Unlike other companies who tend to use modern electric pick ups to
transfer their records we prefer to play our 78s using an acoustic horn
gramophone. In doing this we produce a warm, vibrant and extremely
lifelike sound which requires very little processing (only the worst
clicks are removed) before issue. In fact the only 'electric' part of
the whole playback process is the Technics SL-15 turntable which is used
to ensure that the record is running at the correct speed.
Our purpose built horn gramophone is no more than a development of
machines that existed in the 1930s (see picture). Not faced with the
problem of fitting the apparatus into an average sized living room we
have made it much longer (its length is nearly six metres) and changed
the shape of the horn's curve. These adaptations enable extreme
frequencies of the original recording to be heard more clearly and
provide us with a more balanced sound. The thorns which we use are made
of a pliable wood and will quickly shape themselves to the fit snugly
into the groove of a 78. It is unlikely that a thorn will last much
longer than one side of a record before the quality of the sound begins
to deteriorate. Sections of the records we are transferring (usually the
ends) are therefore often played more than once and the best of the
different takes are matched and joined in the editing suite.
In playing the records in the Performing Arts Centre of the Nimbus
Foundation we are virtually allowing the artists a second chance to make
their recordings, this time in a more generous acoustic. The conditions
under which many of these artists recorded were often cramped and
difficult and one often wonders what chance the voice really had!
The microphone which we use is exactly the same one that we use to make
the majority of our ambisonic recordings. It is positioned so that it is
central to the aperture of the horn and its distance from the horn is
varied depending on the singer's voice and the quality of the records we
are transferring. Changes of microphone position are kept to the bare
minimum during a session unless the original recordings are radically
different. No mixers, faders or processors are involved. A session in
the PAC might last for anything up to a week during which we usually
hope to transfer a minimum of two discs.
Despite the application of thought and effort and the amount of time
involved with each Prima Voce release, the basic principle remains very
simple: we play the records the way they were intended to be played and
record the results in much the same way that all our recordings are made."
MiNe 109
Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has been
presented with this information.
Stephen
Andrew Rose
>
> Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has been
> presented with this information.
>
> Stephen
Each to their own tastes - if there was only one way to tackle this type
of material a number of us would be out of a job!
Alan P Dawes
How? In the UK (and I think this also applies in other countries) consumer
protection legislation only allows 6 years in England and Wales and 5
years in Scotland to bring a case for faulty goods and this is only
against the retailer not the manufacturer as you have no direct contract
with the manufacturer unless you buy from them.
Alan
--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has been
> presented with this information.
And this is also not the first time Tepper has said how much he thinks that
the added reverb ruins the recordings.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Alan P Dawes
I've got a wind-up radio and a wind-up torch and have seen a wind-up
battery charger so I'd expect someone would have made a wind-up CD player.
:-)
MiNe 109
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:smcelroy2-68459...@nntp.aioe.org:
>
> > Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has been
> > presented with this information.
>
> And this is also not the first time Tepper has said how much he thinks that
> the added reverb ruins the recordings.
You're entitled to your opinion.
Stephen
Norman M. Schwartz
I'm looking at a TDK CD-R's back inlay (came in individual jewel cases back
when) and is written "FULL LIFETIME WARRANTY... REPLACEMENT IS THE SOLE
OBLIGATION OF THIS WARRANTY". I don't believe that the then manufacturer is
the same as is the present, so the usual applies: whose lifetime, their's or
mine? IAE such a disc now can be purchased for less than $0.20 and mailing
it back to them costs more than double.
> Alan
Martin Leese
Please note that the only mention of
"ambisonic" is to describe the mic used to
record the result. The mic can be used to
record anything, not just 78s played on a
horn gramophone. In fact, it actually says:
"we ... record the results in much the same
way that all our recordings are made."
--
Alan P Dawes
Neither, it's the lifetime of the product - as soon as the product "dies"
that is the end of its life and thus the warranty :-)
Matthew B. Tepper
Indeed I am. And if I think a transfer of a historical recording sounds
like crap, I will certainly say so. If you should happen to disagree with
my assessment, then that is simply the way things are.
Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear some
Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:LGP8k.547$7%6.159@edtnps82:
> Please note that the only mention of "ambisonic" is to describe the mic
> used to record the result. The mic can be used to record anything, not
> just 78s played on a horn gramophone. In fact, it actually says: "we ...
> record the results in much the same way that all our recordings are made."
And I don't particularly care how the tons of reverb have been added to a
historical recording, whether by "Ambisonic" miking, or by electronic delay
programs, or by bouncing the sound off of a toilet bowl (as Orson Welles'
Foley crew had the sound of the Martian cylinder opening). I dislike the
resultant effect.
I do have a few Nimbus CDs, but they're modern ones, one containing some
lovely music sung by the Kansas City Chorale, and a few with piano rolls not
available elsewhere.
Kip Williams
> Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear some
> Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
Possibly vaguely erotic, in a late-70s /Penthouse/ sort of way.
Kip W
MiNe 109
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:smcelroy2-42953...@nntp.aioe.org:
>
> > In article <Xns9AC957D2A99...@216.168.3.30>,
> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
> >> following letters to be typed in
> >> news:smcelroy2-68459...@nntp.aioe.org:
> >>
> >> > Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has
> >> > been presented with this information.
> >>
> >> And this is also not the first time Tepper has said how much he thinks
> >> that the added reverb ruins the recordings.
> >
> > You're entitled to your opinion.
>
> Indeed I am. And if I think a transfer of a historical recording sounds
> like crap, I will certainly say so. If you should happen to disagree with
> my assessment, then that is simply the way things are.
That's good so long as you don't misstate your case. While the
distinction between "re-recorded in a reverberant space" and "adding
artificial reverb" is a fine one, I think it important.
> Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear some
> Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
Next time you go to a dark gallery, turn on the lights.
Stephen
Matthew B. Tepper
> In article <Xns9AC9BE860AD...@216.168.3.30>,
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
>> following letters to be typed in
>> news:smcelroy2-42953...@nntp.aioe.org:
>>
>> > In article <Xns9AC957D2A99...@216.168.3.30>,
>> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
>> >> following letters to be typed in
>> >> news:smcelroy2-68459...@nntp.aioe.org:
>> >>
>> >> > Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has
>> >> > been presented with this information.
>> >>
>> >> And this is also not the first time Tepper has said how much he
>> >> thinks that the added reverb ruins the recordings.
>> >
>> > You're entitled to your opinion.
>>
>> Indeed I am. And if I think a transfer of a historical recording
>> sounds like crap, I will certainly say so. If you should happen to
>> disagree with my assessment, then that is simply the way things are.
>
> That's good so long as you don't misstate your case. While the
> distinction between "re-recorded in a reverberant space" and "adding
> artificial reverb" is a fine one, I think it important.
But "re-recording in a reverberant space" is a *subset* of the methods of
"adding artificial reverb." The end result is that a recording has been
blurred with echoes, and therefore less attractive to me (and possibly
others). And a distinction that makes no difference, *is* no difference.
>> Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear
>> some Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
>
> Next time you go to a dark gallery, turn on the lights.
Lights at a normal level, and in a spectrum somewhat resembling sunlight,
are fine. It's the garish red lights that give the, er, wrong impression.
Steve de Mena
> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
>>
>>> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the
>>> following letters to be typed in
>>> news:smcelroy2-68459...@nntp.aioe.org:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for posting this, but this is not the first time Tepper has
>>>> been presented with this information.
>>> And this is also not the first time Tepper has said how much he thinks
>>> that the added reverb ruins the recordings.
>> You're entitled to your opinion.
>
> Indeed I am. And if I think a transfer of a historical recording sounds
> like crap, I will certainly say so. If you should happen to disagree with
> my assessment, then that is simply the way things are.
>
> Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear some
> Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
I think you should clarify the type of gallery. If it is a
contemporary art gallery the paintings might look better.
Steve
MiNe 109
You'll find many new recordings and re-releases of older recordings have
some artificial reverb.
To me, most Prima Voce discs sound like what they are: a big horn player
in a mildly reverberant hall. That's not the only way I want to hear old
performances but it's a valid option.
> >> Try this experiment: The next time you go to an art gallery, smear
> >> some Vaseline over your glasses, and see how the paintings look.
> >
> > Next time you go to a dark gallery, turn on the lights.
>
> Lights at a normal level, and in a spectrum somewhat resembling sunlight,
> are fine. It's the garish red lights that give the, er, wrong impression.
Like a heat lamp? Are you sure you're in a gallery?
Stephen
Norman M. Schwartz
If a similar analogy could be made contemporary music Ambisonic could well
be a good thing.
> Steve
Matthew B. Tepper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_district
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:4864fadb$0$5025$607e...@cv.net:
And a contemporary composer who gets to do a CD for Nimbus can be assured of
both a first, and a second recording.
Martin Leese
> Martin Leese <ple...@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:LGP8k.547$7%6.159@edtnps82:
>
>> Please note that the only mention of "ambisonic" is to describe the mic
>> used to record the result. The mic can be used to record anything, not
>> just 78s played on a horn gramophone. In fact, it actually says: "we ...
>> record the results in much the same way that all our recordings are made."
>
> And I don't particularly care how the tons of reverb have been added to a
> historical recording, whether by "Ambisonic" miking, or by electronic delay
> programs, or by bouncing the sound off of a toilet bowl (as Orson Welles'
> Foley crew had the sound of the Martian cylinder opening). I dislike the
> resultant effect.
An Ambisonic mic does not add reverb;
recording in a reverberant room does. If
they had used a stereo mic it would still
sound reverberant.
I don't like the sound of Nimbus recordings
either, so I stopped buying them.
MiNe 109
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> MiNe 109 <smce...@POPaustin.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:smcelroy2-0980A...@nntp.aioe.org:
>
> > In article <Xns9AC9C7BECF7...@216.168.3.30>,
> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Lights at a normal level, and in a spectrum somewhat resembling sunlight,
> >> are fine. It's the garish red lights that give the, er, wrong impression.
> >
> > Like a heat lamp? Are you sure you're in a gallery?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_district
You don't have to put on the red light, someone sang.
Now imagine you're in a gallery of damaged negatives that require
special lighting to reveal the contents.
Stephen
Norman M. Schwartz
I have some Nimbus recordings which are too closely miced, 'dry' and with no
reverb, a recording of Mozart wind chamber music, (recorded in a Teldec
studio?) comes to mind. Robert's LvB solo piano music and many, not all of
Adam Fischer's Haydn Symphonies in the Brilliant Box) are also quite
satisfactory.
CharlesSmith
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have a Nimbus 45rpm 12inch disc of Cherkassky playing Chopin. It's a
nice sound with modest reverb .... except for an outlandish booming
bass sound - quite terrifying in the Bb minor scherzo. I can't find
any evidence that this recital was transferred to CD - it's not
included in the 6 CD Cherkassky set.
Bob Harper
(snip)
> I have some Nimbus recordings which are too closely miced, 'dry' and with no
> reverb, a recording of Mozart wind chamber music, (recorded in a Teldec
> studio?) comes to mind. Robert's LvB solo piano music and many, not all of
> Adam Fischer's Haydn Symphonies in the Brilliant Box) are also quite
> satisfactory.
>
>
Indeed. While Nimbus was guilty of making a number of over-reverberant
recordings (the earlier installments of the Haydn cycle being
unfortunate examples), to condemn them of this fault in wholesale
fashion is unfair. To take but one example, the *later* Haydn
installments are just fine. The Vienna Piano Trio's Beethoven
(unfortunately incomplete) does not suffer the fault, nor, in my
judgment, is there anything wrong with the recording of the Franz
Schubert Quartet's Mozart.
Bob Harper
Derek Haslam
"Norman M. Schwartz" <nm...@optonline.net> wrote:
> many, not all of
> Adam Fischer's Haydn Symphonies in the Brilliant Box) are also quite
> satisfactory.
The discs containing the later symphonies (the final dozen at least)
are very over-reverberant to my ears. I think these were the first of
the set to be recorded. The sound of the early/middle symphonies is
generally much better. I believe they were all recorded in the same
hall in which case:
1) It's probably down to microphone placement.
2) Nimbus must have been aware of the problem and done something about
it.
Derek Haslam
--
Mastery of the rules is a prerequisite for breaking them creatively.
Bob Harper
> In message <4865106b$0$5024$607e...@cv.net>
> "Norman M. Schwartz" <nm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> many, not all of
>> Adam Fischer's Haydn Symphonies in the Brilliant Box) are also quite
>> satisfactory.
>
> The discs containing the later symphonies (the final dozen at least)
> are very over-reverberant to my ears. I think these were the first of
> the set to be recorded. The sound of the early/middle symphonies is
> generally much better. I believe they were all recorded in the same
> hall in which case:
>
> 1) It's probably down to microphone placement.
>
> 2) Nimbus must have been aware of the problem and done something about
> it.
>
> Derek Haslam
>
>
refers in passing to the issue. The short version is that you're almost
certainly correct.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Martin Leese <ple...@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> appears to have caused
>> the following letters to be typed in news:LGP8k.547$7%6.159@edtnps82:
>>
>>> Please note that the only mention of "ambisonic" is to describe the mic
>>> used to record the result. The mic can be used to record anything, not
>>> just 78s played on a horn gramophone. In fact, it actually says: "we
>>> ... record the results in much the same way that all our recordings are
>>> made."
>>
>> And I don't particularly care how the tons of reverb have been added to
>> a historical recording, whether by "Ambisonic" miking, or by electronic
>> delay programs, or by bouncing the sound off of a toilet bowl (as Orson
>> Welles' Foley crew had the sound of the Martian cylinder opening). I
>> dislike the resultant effect.
>
> An Ambisonic mic does not add reverb; recording in a reverberant room
> does. If they had used a stereo mic it would still sound reverberant.
Ah, thanks for the clarification, which I think I finally understand now.
> I don't like the sound of Nimbus recordings either, so I stopped buying
> them.
We are of like minds on this topic.