Natan Brand: Schumann and Chopin on BNL
tomdeacon
Have to say that both Kreisleriana AND the Chopin Funeral March Sonata
have not received any better performance on records that I am familiar
with.
Brand uses a Bosendorfer piano on this long-deleted BNL CD which was
released back in 1987!!!
The performances here strike me as more collected, more thoughtful,
less whimsical than the "live" performances I have heard on APR and
Analekta. And far better recorded, in fact. BNL is considered one of
those "audiophile" labels, I think, and with good reason. Usually the
performers suck, but Brand is the exception to the rule. And how!
Anyone at all interested in these two pieces should try to obtain a
used copy via www.amazon.fr.
Not completely incidentally, the Chopin Nocturne Op. 27 No. 2 is
probably the most voluptuous, rapturous and elegant performance of this
piece I have ever heard. Simply breathtakingly beautiful.
TD
Miguel Montfort
[...]
> Anyone at all interested in these two pieces should try
> to obtain a used copy via www.amazon.fr.
All I cound find at amazon.fr is the Palexa release
containing those live recitals you referred to:
http://tinyurl.com/rgppt
What a pity, I’d love to hear a studi recording by
this very special artist.
Miguel Montfort
Miguel Montfort
> What a pity, I'd love to hear a studi recording by
^^^^^^
studio(!) - sorry.
Back to Brand - I found an article by HCS on (among
other things) the particular CD Tom mentioned:
http://tinyurl.com/mt97n
Miguel Montfort
Alan Cooper
Me too, although you should not hesitate to pick up the Palexa if you
haven't already. The Kreisleriana there is wonderful, and it sounds
fine, although obviously it's not studio quality. I did not like the
Chopin Sonata on the second disc, however, and wonder if Brand's
conception of the work in his BNL recording is significantly
different.
AC
Miguel Montfort
> Me too, although you should not hesitate to pick up the
> Palexa if you haven't already. The Kreisleriana there
> is wonderful, and it sounds fine, although obviously it's
> not studio quality. I did not like the Chopin Sonata on
> the second disc, however, and wonder if Brand's conception
> of the work in his BNL recording is significantly different.
thanks for the recommendation, Alan. I bought the Palexa CD
almost the week it came out ;-)
Miguel Montfort
Tony Overington
Glad you enjoyed it. It was far and away the best thing I bought last
year.
Tony Overington
Tony Overington wrote:
> Glad you enjoyed it. It was far and away the best thing I bought last
> year.
Oops. I now see you're referring to the BNL. I have the Palexa. I would
rather hear him live even with inferior sound. If that Chopin Ballade 4
is anything to go by--and like Geoff Dorfman said in the notes--he
needed an audience for inspiration.
tomdeacon
Not so on the strength of this one studio disc I own.
But if by "inspiration" you mean "whimsical" and more than a little
illogical, yet spontaneous, you're right.
The BNL recording of both pieces is really exquisitely well judged.
Some things in the Chopin haunt me still, many hours after listening to
it. I shall repeat the pleasure tomorrow and see if it is as good as I
think it is. The Kreisleriana puts Horowitz to shame as The Manic
Manipulator.
Not that I don't appreciate the "live" performances I have heard by
Brand. While listening, they were enchanting. Certainly made one perk
one's ears, so to speak. Much has to do with his idiosyncratic
voicings, which were delicious, but slightly off the wall. But I fear
that they will not wear as well in the long run. Too eccentric,
perhaps. Time will tell.
I have alsolutely no idea whether BNL is still in business. But there
are at present about 167 listings at www.amazon.fr for that label, and
many are still current. So chances are that they remain solvent. Let's
hope the fuss over Brand gets to the owner, Bernard Neveu.
TD
Tony Overington
> Not so on the strength of this one studio disc I own.
>
> But if by "inspiration" you mean "whimsical" and more than a little
> illogical, yet spontaneous, you're right.
>
> The BNL recording of both pieces is really exquisitely well judged.
> Some things in the Chopin haunt me still, many hours after listening to
> it. I shall repeat the pleasure tomorrow and see if it is as good as I
> think it is. The Kreisleriana puts Horowitz to shame as The Manic
> Manipulator.
>
> Not that I don't appreciate the "live" performances I have heard by
> Brand. While listening, they were enchanting. Certainly made one perk
> one's ears, so to speak. Much has to do with his idiosyncratic
> voicings, which were delicious, but slightly off the wall. But I fear
> that they will not wear as well in the long run. Too eccentric,
> perhaps. Time will tell.
>
> I have alsolutely no idea whether BNL is still in business. But there
> are at present about 167 listings at www.amazon.fr for that label, and
> many are still current. So chances are that they remain solvent. Let's
> hope the fuss over Brand gets to the owner, Bernard Neveu.
>
> TD
I will keep a lookout for the BNL disc in Amsterdam (not terribly
likely, I know, but more so than here in London). All the same, I doubt
it matters terribly much which one you have. So long as people hear
Brand, well, it's unlikely they'll be unmoved by the performances.
Whimsical some of the live ones might be, but I tend to think of them
more in the sense that he had a lot of different ways to play the
works, and wasn't fully aware of how he'd approach the details until
being fully in the context of the performance. I love the wildness of
the Palexa recordings -- the lurid colours of the slow movements, his
love of bringing out unusual voices -- and recommend them every chance
I get. I've heard that volume 2 is unlikely at present. Apparently the
first did not sell well, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if people here
were to go out and buy it soon. At worst, they will get performances
beyond imagination :)
tomdeacon
Someone who doesn't know what he wants to do with a piece of music - at
least in the broad contours, really shouldn't be allowed with a 9'
Steinway.
It's dangerous.
A bit like allowing someone to sit in a Ferrari and aim it any which
way simply because the car has a steering wheel, gobs of horsepower and
the wheels to get him wherever he wants to go.
Madness!
Now, you do NOT have to go so far as SR in this business. You don't
have to map every detail out carefully, even if you are able to project
a sense of improvisation in the process.
Jorge Bolet fans would be appalled by Brand's wilfulness.
Mostly it simply causes us to smile with glee that he attempted it.
But this is a bit like Bush ignoring sage advice about how to conduct a
war, disbanding the Iraqi military on a whim and so on. That's fine, if
what you end up with is positive. But there are pitfalls and we see
them now.
So too with music.
Too much improvisation suggests a lack of musical backbone. Which is
precisely what Shura Cherkassky lacked, of course, although he actually
had more than Brand from what we can observe at this remove.
Cherkassky's "childish" glee in doing what he felt like at the moment
made him the bane of other musicians with whom he had to play. MA, on
the other hand, with the means to do anything with her "Ferrari", is
able to subdue her personality to the extent that others adore playing
with her. Witness the past twenty-five years of chamber music with our
star pianist.
> I love the wildness of the Palexa recordings -- the lurid colours of the slow movements, his
> love of bringing out unusual voices -- and recommend them every chance
> I get.
It isn't that they are not to be recommended, but only in the hands of
those who actually are aware of the dangers inherent in such a
whimsical approach to music.
> I've heard that volume 2 is unlikely at present. Apparently the
> first did not sell well, so it wouldn't be a bad thing if people here
> were to go out and buy it soon. At worst, they will get performances
> beyond imagination.
Indeed. Even in one's wildest nightmares!
TD
Tony Overington
tomdeacon wrote:
> Someone who doesn't know what he wants to do with a piece of music - at
> least in the broad contours, really shouldn't be allowed with a 9'
> Steinway.
I don't think it's quite like that, and of course I didn't mean it that
way. I meant that his projection of the work will drastically vary from
performance to performance. With some pianists it can sound absurdly
whimsical, with others one performance can sound as convincing and
logical as the next. But really, how many pianists are capable of this?
Not many I venture. Last year I twice heard Pogorelich play the same
programme within 4 days. I have *never* heard such different
interpretations come from the same pianist. The Rachmaninoff sonata
from Salzburg, for example, despite some problems with the hall and
out-of-tune piano, was at least 5 minutes longer than the one played a
few days later in Bad Worishofen -- not just details and dynamics but
the overall structure was changed and developed in a different way.
Peculiar no doubt, but from an artistic POV I found it fascinating that
a person could see the same thing in such different ways. Personally I
would take this type of musician any day over a type who projects the
work in the same manner day after day (let alone year after year).
Saying nothing of your comment on Ferraris, I don't see the point in
pulling Bolet into a discussion on Natan Brand. MA or SR either. The
reason why we're so thrilled by these performances is because NB
couldn't be compared to any of them. Thank god.
> Too much improvisation suggests a lack of musical backbone.
You can take it from my first paragraph that I would disagree with
this. Too much improvisation perhaps shows a febrile imagination and,
if anything, a spine to project his conception. When you've got a
technique to do it, like Brand does, it's never less than fascinating,
even if for you it may not stand up to years of repeated listening. But
then some things are probably best kept for the halls only -- or for
people who wish to be in the halls while at home.
Steve Emerson
"tomdeacon" <tomde...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Too much improvisation suggests a lack of musical backbone. Which is
> precisely what Shura Cherkassky lacked, of course, although he actually
> had more than Brand from what we can observe at this remove.
> Cherkassky's "childish" glee in doing what he felt like at the moment
> made him the bane of other musicians with whom he had to play.
I'm only a little into the Palexa Brand as yet, but interestingly I
noticed another component that suggests Cherkassky -- in the Ballade #4
he shows a C.-like propensity for putting the emphasis on a secondary or
tertiary voice, necessarily giving short shrift to the primary one. Most
of the time it works and may even qualify as insight. It also smacks a
little of perversity; another characteristic of the estimable Mr.
Cherkassky.
SE.
Tony Overington
I'm interested to know your reaction to his Kreisleriana.
tomdeacon
Sometimes I do get the impression that your knowledge of musicians and
how musicians operate is lacking.
ALL musicians can vary their interpretations at whim.
ALL musicians are capable of doing that. They do it every day all the
time.
The point is, surely, that they chose to do their experimenting in the
privacy of their studio and then present their collected thoughts about
the music in the concert hall, all the while retaining a degree of
"improvisation" for the moment.
Brand does not do this. He experiments, and experiments wildly, and at
whim, without much thought given to how he is presenting the work as a
whole. It is license, not liberty.
It doesn't suprise me that Pogo presented two different interpretations
of Rachmaninoff Sonata No. 2 on two separate occasions. The thing is,
each would likely have had an organic wholeness which he was striving
for at that moment.
This is clearly not the case with Brand. HCS commented - and rightly -
on his waywardness. He disliked the Chopin Sonata No. 2. I adored it.
But he loved the Schumann. On that we agree.
But HCS did not have the ability to contrast these relatively
controlled recordings with the "live" ones we now have access to. There
the waywardness has turned almost into caricature.
If you do like this kind of thing, then by all means like it. And you
can always look to the master of improvisation, the every tipsy Mr.
Hofmann, who can, at will, slice up Schumann's Kreisleriana into a 15
minute scherzo with a few, very few, slow parts, or make a fair mockery
of Beethoven's Waldstein Sonata, or, alternately, turn Chopin's
seraphic Berceuse into a heartless technical exercise of the utmost
mechanical precision. All spontaneously, all gratuitously, all more or
less forgettable, I would say.
If you prefer something more controlled, then you have the example of
Sergei Rachmaninoff, who determined his interpretations once and for
all and rarely wavered from that interpretation. His miracle is that it
all SEEMS so spontaneous. Unless you listened to him night after night
you would never guess he wasn't doing it right there. That is the art
that conceals the art.
With Mr. Brand I fear that relatively few examples of his true artistry
exist. What we will be left are the "epaves", the musical wrecks thrown
up on the shores of recorded history for our delectation or our
opproprium.
TD
Tony Overington
tomdeacon wrote:
> The point is, surely, that they chose to do their experimenting in the
> privacy of their studio and then present their collected thoughts about
> the music in the concert hall, all the while retaining a degree of
> "improvisation" for the moment.
That approach is, of course, more professional, and less likely to
annoy and perplex anyone listening in. My taste however inclines to the
experimental even in the concert hall, and I am more than willing to
sit through odd illogical moments for the thrill of hearing a pianist
taking things on the wing. Brand experiments wildly, I agree, but I
don't think you can go very far by qualifying it "without much thought
given to how he is presenting the work as a whole". As I have not heard
the BNL recordings, do you mean that the live ones on Palexa are
unnaturally choppy and with too much emphasis on local detail compared
to the studio recordings?
> But HCS did not have the ability to contrast these relatively
> controlled recordings with the "live" ones we now have access to.
Another NYT reviewer did, however, and had the same reaction to the
Chopin 2 as HCS. I imagine actually seeing it played by Brand, in the
manner described in the review of the recital, would be enough to put
me off too. That type of physical ostentation is not becoming to a
musician, IMO.
I don't see much point in bringing in yet another comparison
now--JH--unless you are trying to point out Brand's lineage to those
who don't know it. But I don't think that that's what you're trying to
do. Instead I am hearing about your own preferences, how forgettable
Hofmann was, and how sliced up some of his readings were. Which is a
fine opinion of course, just not one I expect to be invoked to point
out what NB's lacking.
> With Mr. Brand I fear that relatively few examples of his true artistry
> exist.
This is something I can't follow you on. His "true artistry" is what we
have in the Palexa issue. Unless of course you mean true
artistry=well-prepared studio recordings. Then we'll have to part ways
again, because for me if anything it's the opposite of that.
MrT
of the horrible Cherkassky has cooled my jets. Just tell me, honestly,
how bad does this Brand get? As to "true artistry", brought up by Tom,
I agree with Tony: a pianist's true artistry is, mainly (I almost said
"only") manifested in his or her concerts. If that standard is valid
for jazz and for any other genre that I can think of, why would
classical music be an exception? If a pianist is not good in concert,
no number of studio recordings can make him into a good pianist. On the
other hand, some pianists are worse in the studio, which is
understandable. But playing for an audience is, in reality, part of the
definition of a professional pianist. As far as I know, I have never
heard of a "recording pianist".
Best,
MrT
Alan Cooper
Steve, did you notice that C's collection of bonbons callled
"Kaleidoscope," fomerly on L'Oiseau-Lyre LP, has been reissued on
Australian Eloquence CD. Definitely not for MrT! The original
recital has been augmented with works by Scriabin, Rachmaninov (Polka
de W.R.), and Chopin (Ballade #3 and a Nocturne). A long-time
favorite of mine.
AC
Alan Cooper
>Hey guys, I was beginning to get interested in Brand, but the mention
>of the horrible Cherkassky has cooled my jets. Just tell me, honestly,
>how bad does this Brand get?
In the opening movement of the Chopin Sonata #2 on Palexa, I think he
goes completely off track. But the more important question, imo, is
"How good can he get?" And his Kreisleriana suggests that he could be
amazing. When I listen to Cherkassky play stuff like the
Albeniz/Godowsky Tango, I think that he can do no wrong, momentarily
igmoring disasters that he perpetrates elsewhere :-)
AC
MrT
Best,
MrT
Tony Overington
Alan Cooper wrote:
> In the opening movement of the Chopin Sonata #2 on Palexa, I think he
> goes completely off track.
Hi Alan. What makes you think so? It's a rather heavy first movement,
and I know a few people who think his development section is rather off
track as you say, but I find it very convincing overall.
tomdeacon
Tony Overington wrote:
> tomdeacon wrote:
> > The point is, surely, that they chose to do their experimenting in the
> > privacy of their studio and then present their collected thoughts about
> > the music in the concert hall, all the while retaining a degree of
> > "improvisation" for the moment.
>
> That approach is, of course, more professional, and less likely to
> annoy and perplex anyone listening in. My taste however inclines to the
> experimental even in the concert hall, and I am more than willing to
> sit through odd illogical moments for the thrill of hearing a pianist
> taking things on the wing. Brand experiments wildly, I agree, but I
> don't think you can go very far by qualifying it "without much thought
> given to how he is presenting the work as a whole". As I have not heard
> the BNL recordings, do you mean that the live ones on Palexa are
> unnaturally choppy and with too much emphasis on local detail compared
> to the studio recordings?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
> > With Mr. Brand I fear that relatively few examples of his true artistry
> > exist.
>
> This is something I can't follow you on. His "true artistry" is what we
> have in the Palexa issue. Unless of course you mean true
> artistry=well-prepared studio recordings. Then we'll have to part ways
> again, because for me if anything it's the opposite of that.
His true artistry is not in his "experiments" before an adoring, if
small, public.
Frankly, when I go to a Three Star Restaurant to eat, I don't want to
taste the chef's latest "experiments" with food. What I want to eat are
the things he is inordinately proud of, his successes.
I have the impression that Brand didn't always know what worked and
what didn't. I don't mind him trying things on for size, but sometimes
they just don't fit and I am completely uninterested in the ones which
don't. I am, however, interested in the ones that do.
Which brings me to his artistry. If only we had more of his "collected"
thoughts, and not only his latest whims and fancies.
TD
tomdeacon
Never heard of Glenn Gould?
TD
tomdeacon
It is precisely in the Chopin Sonata that the BNL is memorable.
Convincing. Powerful. Unusual. Ground-breaking.
One of the two or three most interesting performances since
Rachmaninoff.
The other one is Cyprien Katsaris on Sony with a finale that is
matchless for its' pianistic wizzardry.
Even Brand can't come close to that.
TD
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
Thanks for the alert, hadn't noticed.
There are some superb things in the BBC Chopin disc at BRO, notably the
second and especially fourth scherzos, and the nocturnes Op 9/2 and
48/1. What tone! These I think could convert even a card-carrying
Cherkassky-hater. Of course, there are other items here that would
hinder the cause...
SE.