75-disc Complete Verdi Box from Decca

[Thornhill]

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Verdi-Giuseppe-1813-1901_000000000018199/item_The-Complete-Works-Chailly-Abbado-C-kleiber-Giulini-Gardelli-Etc_5266770

I cleaned up the Google translation on the contents:

CD1 ~ 2 "Oberto" - Sir Neville Marriner
CD3 ~ 4 "Un giorno di regno" - Lamberto Gardelli
CD5 ~ 6 "Nabucco" opera - Lamberto Gardelli
CD7 ~ 8 "I Lombardi alla prima crociata" - Lamberto Gardelli
CD9 ~ 10 "Ernani" - Richard Bonynge
CD11 ~ 12 "I due Foscari" - Lamberto Gardelli
CD13 ~ 14 "Giovanna d'Arco" - James Levine
CD15 ~ 16 "Alzira" - Fabio Luisi
CD17 ~ 18 "Attila" - Lamberto Gardelli
CD19 ~ 20 "Macbeth : Claudio Abbado
CD21 ~ 22 "I masnadieri," by Richard Bonynge
CD23 ~ 25 "Jérusalem" -Fabio Luisi
CD34 ~ 35 "Rigoletto" - Carlo Maria Giulini
CD36 ~ 37 "Il trovatore" - Carlo Maria Giulini
CD38 ~ 39 "La Traviata" - Carlos Kleiber
CD40 ~ 42 "Les vêpres siciliennes" - Riccardo Muti
CD43 ~ 44 "Simon Boccanegra" Claudio Abbado
CD45 ~ 46 "Aroldo" - Fabio Luisi
CD47 ~ 48 "Un ballo in maschera"- Sir Georg Solti
CD49 ~ 51 "La forza del destino" (original text edition 1862) - Valery
Gergiev
CD52 ~ 54 "La forza del destino" (Revised 1869) Giuseppe Sinopoli o
CD55 ~ 58 "Don Carlo" (Milan premiere edition 1884) - Claudio Abbado
CD59 ~ 61 "Don Carlo" (premiere edition Paris 1867) - Sir Georg Solti
CD62 ~ 63 "Aida" - Herbert von Karajan
CD64 ~ 65 "Otello" Myung-Whun Chung
CD66 ~ 67 "Falstaff" Carlo Maria Giulini
CD68 ~ 69 Requiem - Sir Georg Solti
CD70 Sacred Works - Riccardo Chailly
CD71 "translation failure, but I think it's Verdi discoveries"
Riccardo Chailly
CD72 "Lieder" Margaret Price (S)
CD73 "collection of songs and arias" (T) Renata Scott (S) / Placido
Domingo (T) / Luciano Pavarotti
CD74 Ballet Music & String Quartet - Richard Bonynge / String Quartet
Italy
CD75 Ballet Music (Otello, Don Carlo, Aida, Macbeth) - Riccardo
Chailly

Interestingly, Decca licensed a few recordings from EMI, at least one
of which is also in the EMI Verdi opera boxset.

Tower Japan lists the price at about $150.

It will probably never happen, but labels really need to start doing
these kinds of reissues on Blu-ray so they come one 3 or 4 discs
instead of 75.

[randy...@gmail.com]

Quite a bit cheaper, if memory serves me well, than the Verdi Edition that Decca issued in 2008. That set, 74 CDs, featured Decca/Philips recordings as exclusively as possible - even the DG catalog was not used unless a Decca/Philips recording did not exist. And if more than one Decca/Philips recording existed, the older or less-in-demand recording was selected (such as the Erede Otello). This new edition is much better in terms of selected recordings. Something like a "most critically acclaimed" criteria is used for the most part for DG/Decca/Philips recordings, and the newly acquired (but soon to be divested) EMI catalog is used for fillers when Universal recordings do not exist. I'll have to give this a careful look and even then will have a tough decision to make - can the duplications (those not in the older Verdi Edition that is) be sold off for enough to offset a good deal of the price and warrant acquisition even with the material duplicated from the older Verdi Edition?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Looks like a terrific bargain, but what about texts and translations? Having
all of the recordings in one box is incredibly convenient. Having to scrape
around here and there to find every last libretto is terribly inconvenient.

Of course, if there's a CD-ROM included in this set which contains all of the
booklets, that would solve the problem completely.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[wade]

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 4:31:39 AM UTC-8, Thornhill wrote:

Wonder why they list Les Vespres rather than I Vespri, since Muti always does this opera in Italian, even though he likes to use all the ballet music.

[Thornhill]

On Dec 5, 10:03 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
> Looks like a terrific bargain, but what about texts and translations?  Having
> all of the recordings in one box is incredibly convenient.  Having to scrape
> around here and there to find every last libretto is terribly inconvenient.
>
> Of course, if there's a CD-ROM included in this set which contains all of the
> booklets, that would solve the problem completely.

While the product description says nothing about this, Universal has
been pretty good about including a CD-ROM or making the libretti
available as a download with their budget opera boxes.

[M forever]

On Dec 5, 7:31 am, Thornhill <seth.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Verdi-Giuseppe-1813-1901_0000000000181...

Never even heard of "I Lombardi alla prima crociata"!

[Dana John Hill]

"Thornhill" <seth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:53aa213e-3f08-4154...@g14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Verdi-Giuseppe-1813-1901_000000000018199/item_The-Complete-Works-Chailly-Abbado-C-kleiber-Giulini-Gardelli-Etc_5266770

I have the original CD issues of almost everything on this list, but I also
paid way, way more than $150 for them. And I am impressed that Decca went
out of their way to license Giovanna and Vespri.

I assume, too, that Gardelli's Stiffelio is included somewhere.

Dana John Hill
Gainesville, Florida

[Mark S]

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:58:18 AM UTC-8, M forever wrote:
>

>
> Never even heard of "I Lombardi alla prima crociata"!

I sang in the chorus of the NJSO performance of that opera. Carlo Bergonzi was the big-name artist they brought in to sing the lower-ranging of the two tenor leads.

We were scheduled to do two performances. Unbelievably, the music director of NJSO scheduled the first performance on what turned out to be Super Bowl Sunday. To make matters worse, the NY Giants played in that Super Bowl! I remember being on stage for the final chorus when a cheer went up from the stagehands who were watching the game backstage on a small TV. The Giants had just won on a field goal.

Unfortunately, attendance at the first performance was so poor audience-wise that they ended up canceling the second performance due to lack of funds.

At least I got to meet Bergonzi, to talk to him about singing and to have him autograph my CD booklet of his Orfeo Christmas album.

[Curlytop]

Thornhill set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

> CD71 "translation failure, but I think it's Verdi discoveries"
> Riccardo Chailly

Yes it is. I've got that as a single CD. Some good stuff on it.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply

[Matthew B. Tepper]

"Dana John Hill" <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:k9o24q$i1i$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> I have the original CD issues of almost everything on this list, but I also
> paid way, way more than $150 for them. And I am impressed that Decca went
> out of their way to license Giovanna and Vespri.

Well, there's anything you want to license from EMI, now's the time.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Thornhill <seth...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:96f9e079-7010-4fa4-8744-
a5b7fd...@uc4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

I'd still recommend waiting until their English-language product
description states, clearly and definitively, whether there are texts.

[Thornhill]

On Dec 5, 3:37 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
> Thornhill <seth.l...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following

> letters to be typed in news:96f9e079-7010-4fa4-8744-

> a5b7fd1bd...@uc4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> > On Dec 5, 10:03 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Looks like a terrific bargain, but what about texts and translations?
> >> Having all of the recordings in one box is incredibly convenient.
> >> Having to scrape around here and there to find every last libretto is
> >> terribly inconvenient.
>
> >> Of course, if there's a CD-ROM included in this set which contains all
> >> of the booklets, that would solve the problem completely.
>
> > While the product description says nothing about this, Universal has
> > been pretty good about including a CD-ROM or making the libretti
> > available as a download with their budget opera boxes.
>
> I'd still recommend waiting until their English-language product
> description states, clearly and definitively, whether there are texts.

If you care that much, you should wait until someone has it in hand.
With the recent Solti opera boxes, apparently they come with an extra
CD-ROM even though the product description makes no mention of it.

[wade]

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:58:18 AM UTC-8, M forever wrote:

Lombardi was Verdi's fourth after Nabucco, later revised for Paris as Jerusalem which was back-translated to Gerusalemme for its Italian premiere. He reused lots of Lombardi but added some new stuff for Paris. "Signore, dal tetto Natio" in Lombardi was supposed to be his big choral tune to match "Va pensiero" which had been such a hit in Nabucco.

[Mort]

Thornhill wrote:
> It will probably never happen, but labels really need to start doing
> these kinds of reissues on Blu-ray so they come one 3 or 4 discs
> instead of 75.

Hi,

The new big Solti Wagner Ring box includes the complete Ring audio
recordings on one blue-ray disc. Incredible, especially to someone like
me who remembers unwieldy and fragile shellac records with a maximum of
4 minutes per side.

Mort Linder

[Thornhill]

And so far that seems to be a one shot deal.

[Steve de Mena]

Would people pay $150 for a Blu-Ray set of all the Verdi operas if it
just included a few discs? They would probably balk at anything over $50.

Steve

[Thornhill]

I certainly don't deny that a lot of people will have a hard time
wrapping their head around spending that much money for a few (then
again, there are those who pay $50 to $75 for a Japanese single layer
SACD reissue), but I think it just comes down to marketing -- properly
educating the public that the content is identical to CDs, just on
fewer discs -- and sending out a ton of review copies to help enlist
the critics. I also imagine that Universal could knock a few dollars
off the price -- there'd be a lot less packaging and materials, and
there has to be savings in the reduce shipping weight.

I actually think a lot of people would welcome it because it would
take up so little shelf space.

[randy...@gmail.com]

> Of course, if there's a CD-ROM included in this set which contains all of the
>
> booklets, that would solve the problem completely.

The recent Solti Opera boxes include such CDs.
A URL from which a complete "Lyrics and English translation" can be downloaded in PDF is provided in the new DG Complete Wagner collection.

No CD or link is provided for the EMI "Great Operas" of Wanger collection.
The same goes for their Poulenc set.

[Gerard]

randy...@gmail.com <randy...@gmail.com> typed:

Do you mean this Poulenc set:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/EMI/9721652
?

[randy...@gmail.com]

Yep

[Oscar]

Anyone get this? Looks like a no-brainer buy for me, what with the little Verdi I have. Issued yesterday on Decca 75 CD box, $159.99 from ArkivMusic [backordered] http://tiny.cc/aadktw


<< VERDI
The Complete Works

On the 200th anniversary of Verdi’s birth, Decca are proud to present the first ever complete collection of Verdi’s entire compositional output: The operas, arias, songs, sacred works, chamber & piano pieces, orchestral, ballet & choral works, plus a whole host of rarities and discoveries are all here in this comprehensive and beautifully presented anthology.

All of Verdi’s works are contained in this luxury edition.

Thirty complete operas sequenced chronologically, including two versions of La forza del destino and the two versions of Don Carlo & Don Carlos.

First international CD release of Quartetto Italiano’s 1950 recording of Verdi’s String Quartet in E minor.

An unrivalled compilation featuring the world’s greatest singers including Caballé, Carreras, Cotrubas, Domingo, Freni, Horne, Pavarotti & Sutherland.

The astounding wealth of benchmark recordings presents an unparalleled legacy of Verdi conducting featuring Abbado, Bonynge, Chailly, Chung, Gardelli, Gergiev, Giulini, Karajan, Kleiber, Levine, Luisi, Maag, Marriner, Muti, Sinopoli & Solti.

An informative essay by opera critic and writer George Hall gives an overview of Verdi's life and career; cue-pointed synopses in English, French and German are included for each opera; full production details and cast lists are presented across two hardback books.

The musical and artistic breadth & depth of Verdi: The Complete Works makes it a truly unique & collectible product - one that is unlikely ever to be surpassed.


Tracklisting

Opera 1 [CD 1 & 2]
• Oberto (Marriner)

Opera 2 [CD 3 & 4]
• Un giorno di regno (Gardelli)

Opera 3 [CD 5 & 6]
• Nabucco (Gardelli)

Opera 4 [CD 7 & 8]
• I Lombardi (Levine)

Opera 5 [CD 9 & 10]
• Ernani (Bonynge)

Opera 6 [CD CD 11 & 12]
• I due Foscari (Gardelli)

Opera 7 [CD 13 & 14]
• Giovanna d'arco (Levine)

Opera 8 [CD15 & 16]
• Alzira (Luisi)

Opera 9 [CD 17 & 18]
• Attila (Gardelli)

Opera 10 [CD 19 & 20]
• Macbeth (Abbado)

Opera 11 [CD 21 & 22]
• I masnadieri (Bonynge)

Opera 12 [CD 23, 24 & 25]
• Jérusalem (Luisi)

Opera 13 [CD 26 & 27]
• Il corsaro (Gardelli)

Opera 14 [CD 28 & 29]
• La battaglia di legnano (Gardelli)

Opera 15 [CD 30 & 31]
• Luisa Miller (Maag)

Opera 16 [CD 32 & 33]
• Stiffelio (Gardelli)

Opera 17 [CD 34 & 35]
• Rigoletto (Giulini)

Opera 18 [CD 36 & 37]
• Il trovatore (Giulini)

Opera 19 [CD 38 & 39]
• La traviata (Kleiber)

Opera 20 [CD 40, 41 & 42]
• I vespri siciliani (Muti)

Opera 21 [CD 43 & 44]
• Simon Boccanegra (Abbado)

Opera 22 [CD 45 & 46]
• Aroldo (Luisi)

Opera 23 [CD 47 & 48]
• Un ballo in maschera (Solti)

Opera 24 [CD 49, 50 & 51]
• La forza del destino [1862 St Petersburg version] (Gergiev)

Opera 25 [CD 52. 53 & 54]
• La forza del destino (Sinopoli)

Opera 26 [CD 55, 56, 57 & 58]
• Don Carlos (Abbado)

Opera 27 [CD 59, 60 & 61]
• Don Carlo (Solti)

Opera 28 [CD 62 & 63]
• Aida (Karajan)

Opera 29[CD 64 & 65]
• Otello (Chung)

Opera 30 [CD 66 & 67]
• Falstaff (Giulini)

Other works:
CD 68 & 69
• Requiem (Solti)
• Quattro pezzi sacri (Solti)

CD 70
• Messa solenne and other sacred works (Chailly)

CD 71
• Discoveries (Chailly)

CD 72
• Songs (Margaret Price)

CD 73
• Songs & Arias & other rarities (Scotto / Domingo / Pavarotti

CD 74
• String Quartet (New Italian Quartet)

Ballet music:
• Jérusalem (de Almeida) & Il trovatore (Bonynge)

CD 75
Ballet music:
• Otello - Don Carlos - Aida - Macbeth - I vespri siciliani (Chailly) >>

[Oscar]

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 12:37:52 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
> > While the product description says nothing about this, Universal has
> > been pretty good about including a CD-ROM or making the libretti
> > available as a download with their budget opera boxes.
>
> I'd still recommend waiting until their English-language product
> description states, clearly and definitively, whether there are texts.

No texts (duh), no CD-ROM. And no web link, either, which is kind of surprising because such was provided in the Wagner Complete Operas DG 43CD set issued in January. A password-protected web link provided attractively-designed PDF libretti of all contents. Print, and buy a 1" binder + three-hole punch, or get a laminating machine from Staples. 'That was easy' http://tiny.cc/rzdktw

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the

following letters to be typed in

news:a2dc85af-4185-4707...@googlegroups.com:

> cue-pointed synopses in English, French and German are included for each
> opera;

No sale. Those blinkered idiots! Do they think we all have libretti of
"Alzira" and "Aroldo" and "Un Giorno di Regno" just sitting around?

Waiter: Excuse me, sir, what seems to be the problem?
Diner: Taste the soup.
Waiter: Is it not hot enough for you?
Diner: Taste the soup.
Waiter: If there is something wrong, surely we can--
Diner: Taste the soup.
Waiter: Oh, very well, sir. Uh, where's the spoon?
Diner: Ah-HA!

[td]

No texts? You want opera libretti for a 75 CD set with the price at
$2.00 per CD?

Are you dreaming?

TD

[td]

On Mar 17, 1:12 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed innews:a2dc85af-4185-4707...@googlegroups.com:

>
> > cue-pointed synopses in English, French and German are included for each
> > opera;
>
> No sale.  Those blinkered idiots!  Do they think we all have libretti of
> "Alzira" and "Aroldo" and "Un Giorno di Regno" just sitting around?

Apparently Tepper's dreaming too.

Well, he has been living in his own mind for decades.

TD

[Oscar]

On Mar 17, 12:01 pm, td wrote:
>
> > No texts (duh), no CD-ROM. And no web link, either, which is kind
> > of surprising because such was provided in the Wagner Complete
> > Operas DG 43CD set issued in January. A password-protected web
> > link provided attractively-designed PDF libretti of all contents.
>

> No texts? You want opera libretti for a 75 CD set with the price at
> $2.00 per CD?
>
> Are you dreaming?

Not at all.

As stated above very clearly, Universal included very nicely-laid out,
printable PDF texts and translations via password-protected web link
on its recent Wagner box. For any kind of $160 opera 'complete' boxed
set, one expects something in the way of a libretti...especially when
there is a track record of having already done it 'correctly'.

And for me personally, I have plenty of Wagner libretti scattered
around on various releases. But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:3938574c-2ffb-48c9-b3c5-fce022c8cb31
@iq8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

> As stated above very clearly, Universal included very nicely-laid out,
> printable PDF texts and translations via password-protected web link
> on its recent Wagner box. For any kind of $160 opera 'complete' boxed
> set, one expects something in the way of a libretti...especially when
> there is a track record of having already done it 'correctly'.
>
> And for me personally, I have plenty of Wagner libretti scattered
> around on various releases. But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
> disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.

I agree completely. As for Wagner, libretti for all but the first two (or
three, if you don't already have the EMI "Rienzi") are commonly available.
But there are lots of rarely-heard, yet still meritorious, Verdi operas, and
the failure to include libretti, whether in electronic form on a CD-ROM or
via an online link, is just plain stupid. They have lost a sale to me, and
probably many other people. Spread the word!

[Herman]

On Monday, March 18, 2013 4:10:16 AM UTC+1, Oscar wrote:
>. But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
>
> disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.

etting hold of the Attila libretto is just a matter of using google and half a brain:

http://www.giuseppeverdi.it/stampabile.asp?IDCategoria=162&IDSezione=581&ID=19844

To me this is just typical spoiled consumer whining, also known as the Tepper Syndrome. You're getting 75 cds with good performances at two dollars a disc, and you expect to get all the extras, too?

[Oscar]

On Mar 18, 1:06 am, Herman wrote:
>
> > disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.
>

> Getting hold of the Attila libretto is just a matter of using google and half a brain:

> http://www.giuseppeverdi.it/stampabile.asp?IDCategoria=162&IDSezione=...

LOL Italian only? Habla ingles, por favor.

> To me this is just typical spoiled consumer whining, also known as the Tepper
> Syndrome. You're getting 75 cds with good performances at two dollars a disc,
> and you expect to get all the extras, too?

It's whining to point out that Universal did the 'right' thing for the
Wagner box, but did nothing for Verdi? It's not like these libretti
are not already in digitized form from previous issues. We're talking
about the same company, same executives (catalog exploitation'), and
the exact same concept for a release — but one is inclusive of all
libretti and the other devoid of them? And to you, it's spoiled rotten
American syndrome? Of course it is...predictable trolls lives for
these kinds of encounters.

[wagnerfan]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:38:20 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper"
<oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:3938574c-2ffb-48c9-b3c5-fce022c8cb31
>@iq8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:
>
>> As stated above very clearly, Universal included very nicely-laid out,
>> printable PDF texts and translations via password-protected web link
>> on its recent Wagner box. For any kind of $160 opera 'complete' boxed
>> set, one expects something in the way of a libretti...especially when
>> there is a track record of having already done it 'correctly'.
>>
>> And for me personally, I have plenty of Wagner libretti scattered
>> around on various releases. But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
>> disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.
>
>I agree completely. As for Wagner, libretti for all but the first two (or
>three, if you don't already have the EMI "Rienzi") are commonly available.
>But there are lots of rarely-heard, yet still meritorious, Verdi operas, and
>the failure to include libretti, whether in electronic form on a CD-ROM or
>via an online link, is just plain stupid. They have lost a sale to me, and
>probably many other people. Spread the word!

I have the Decca Oberto and there is a link to get the full libretto
in .pdf - I'm surprised they would not have the same link available in
the big set for the same recording. BTW anyone who can't understand
that you need, assuming you don't know the language, a libretto and
translation to fully enjoy the opera know nothing -0 -zilch- nulla
about that art form and nullifies any monetary saving, The usual
suspects need not stand up. Wagner fan

[Mike Painter]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:06:32 -0700, Herman wrote
(in article <6fa36e21-5ce0-434d...@googlegroups.com>):

For an opera recording, I don't consider the libretto an "extra."

Mike

[wade]

Glad I saved a hard copy Libretto for each of the original LP issues, at least 1 representative booklet for each Verdi opera issued on LP. Essential if you want an English translation, as usually that is what actually is being copyright protected.

[wagnerfan]

I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so
cheap it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing
to each other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And
since the listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy
a libretto and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the
cheapness factor goes out the window. At the best its just stupidity
on the part of the company or at worst a callous disregard for the
purchaser's enjoyment of the recording. Wagner Fan

[Mark S]

On Mar 18, 10:30 am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:39:56 -0700, Mike Painter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <mikhail.NOSPAM.pain...@sbcglobal.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:06:32 -0700, Herman wrote
> >(in article <6fa36e21-5ce0-434d...@googlegroups.com>):
>
> >> On Monday, March 18, 2013 4:10:16 AM UTC+1, Oscar wrote:
> >>> . But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
>
> >>> disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.
>
> >> etting hold of the Attila libretto is just a matter of using google and half
> >> a brain:
>

> >http://www.giuseppeverdi.it/stampabile.asp?IDCategoria=162&IDSezione=...

>
> >> 844
>
> >> To me this is just typical spoiled consumer whining, also known as the Tepper
>
> >> Syndrome. You're getting 75 cds with good performances at two dollars a disc,
>
> >> and you expect to get all the extras, too?
>
> >For an opera recording, I don't consider the libretto an "extra."
>
> >Mike
>
>   I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so
> cheap it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing
> to each other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And
> since the listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy
> a libretto and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the
> cheapness factor goes out the window.  At the best its just stupidity
> on the part of the company or at worst  a callous disregard for the
> purchaser's enjoyment of the recording.   Wagner Fan

A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including
libretti in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of
this box. Of course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and
let the user print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a
computer screen.

Let's not forget that libretti in translation are basically a crutch
for those who aren't fluent in a particular foreign language. You can
rail on record companies not providing translations, but the fact is
that any listener who REALLY wanted to get deep into the world of
opera would have to do the work necessary to gain a working knowledge
of Italian, French and German.

[wade]

lets see.... Rosetta stone cost for French, Italian, German and Russian at $350 per course.... hmmmm. IMHO, unfortunately not really practical in comparison for most people, though personally, I am planning on doing it for Italian.

[Oscar]

On Mar 18, 10:40 am, Mark S wrote:
>
> Let's not forget that libretti in translation are basically a crutch
> for those who aren't fluent in a particular foreign language. You can
> rail on record companies not providing translations, but the fact is
> that any listener who REALLY wanted to get deep into the world of
> opera would have to do the work necessary to gain a working knowledge
> of Italian, French and German.

Are you able to parse all of the nuances of R. Strauss's Intermezzo,
Mark? How many years of German language classes and study in Garmisch
would it take to be able to 'completely' understand it? I understand
that an English-translated libretto cannot even begin to make a
complete translation of such a complex work, but it's better than not
listening at all.

Sure, one would not expect anything but the old saw about the 'lazy
listener' from Mark S, but of course everyone who likes opera but
can't speak Italian are not 'crutch users'. They're opera lovers and
music lovers. And I say this as one who takes pride in reading most
French libretti in the original. With occasional glimpses at the
English column, of course.

On Sep 5 2011, 11:53 pm, Mark S wrote:
>
> In fact, an amateur is the person least qualified to listen to music
> with a truly open mind, because they are people who don't have the
> skills and knowledge to form their own knowledge-based opinions.
>
> To some extent, it comes down to laziness coupled with a sense of
> entitlement - too lazy to actually learn how things work while still
> feeling entitled to have an opinion about the same. Those are traits
> that we wouldn't accept from the guy working on our car engine, let
> alone a brain surgeon, yet we seem to find such lack of knowledge to
> be acceptable when the subject is the arts or the economy or politics.
>
> Go figure.

<end>

[wagnerfan]

Whose talking about getting deep into the world of opera??? I'm
talking about having the necessary knowledge of whats happening on
stage at any particular time - you shouldn't need to study languages
to be given that opportunity esp. when the company can post the
libretto on line one time and then give the link. If I know that 30.00
more meant that all operas would have the necessary texts and
translations I would pay it, gladly. Why are you demeaning a libretto
as a "crutch" - I guess I would be using a crutch to have a libretto
in Armenian helping me understand an opera in that language.
Bottom line for me is that if they want to issue a boxed set in this
way and for that kind of money =- the purchaser should know up front
what is and is not in the set. This is what happens when some posters
are looking at the issue from the standpoint of the company and
another from the standpoint of the purchaser. If a buyer spends almost
200.00 and then finds out there are only synopses for the obscure
Verdi operas what should he do??? Try to enjoy them without really
knowing whats happening, return them or pay more to find the librettos
he needs. Any way - it stinks.
Wagner fan

[wagnerfan]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:01:46 -0700 (PDT), wade <wade...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Please even a person who has a "working knowledge - whatever that is
" of German or Italian could stillneed a libretto since grammar,
structure and idioms have changed over the hundreds of years since the
operas were composed. I'm sorry but I am not convinced that not
including a text and translation can adversely affect the purchasers
enjoyment of the product. Wagner fan

[Oscar]

On Mar 18, 11:06 am, wagnerfan wrote:
>
> Why are you demeaning a libretto as a "crutch" - I guess I would be
> using a crutch to have a libretto in Armenian helping me understand
> an opera in that language.

Mark will insist that anyone who loves Janácek's Káťa Kabanová but
doesn't speak Czech is just a crutch-usin' lazy loo. Probably a Tea
Baggin' red stater, too!!

[wkasimer]

On Mar 18, 1:40 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including
> libretti in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of
> this box.

Surely anyone willing to pay $150 for this would be willing to pay
$180.

This is simply a combination of Universal's laziness, stupidity, and
utter lack of understanding of the classical music market. With
libretti, this is a no-brainer. And without the libretti, it's also a
no-brainer for anyone who isn't fluent in Italian.

Bill

[Oscar]

On Mar 18, 11:10 am, wagnerfan wrote:
>
>  Please even a person who has a "working knowledge - whatever that is"
> of German or Italian could stillneed a libretto since grammar,
> structure and idioms have changed over the hundreds of years since the
> operas were composed.

Exactly. I took seven years of French and actually retained a good
deal of it (compared to friends with comparable accumulation of
study), but I would never think I could go through an entire opera
without looking at the English column.

All of this, of course, is beside the point that Universal has the
texts and translations for the Verdi operas already in digital format,
yet they did not provide them. And to think that for the Wagner box
they had to _license_ Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot from EMI — they
didn't even OWN those masters — yet they still managed to put together
a handsome-looking PDF libretto on password-protected web link.

By contrast, all the Verdi stuff in theirs.

[Mike Painter]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:19:25 -0700, Oscar wrote
(in article
<654c7e13-3ef2-4cc5...@kw7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>):

> On Mar 18, 11:10 am, wagnerfan wrote:
>>
>>  Please even a person who has a "working knowledge - whatever that is"
>> of German or Italian could stillneed a libretto since grammar,
>> structure and idioms have changed over the hundreds of years since the
>> operas were composed.
>
> Exactly. I took seven years of French and actually retained a good
> deal of it (compared to friends with comparable accumulation of
> study), but I would never think I could go through an entire opera
> without looking at the English column.

I speak German fluently, and I find it helpful to have the words in GERMAN,
let alone the English translation. And of course, opera comes in languages I
don't even pretend to speak.


cheers,
Mike

[wagnerfan]

Happens all the time - I have friends who live in Bayreuth, know
Wagner inside and out --and pull out the libretti to follow along
withthe broadcasts. Wagner fan

[Mark S]

On Mar 18, 11:10 am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Please even a person who has a "working knowledge - whatever that is
> " of German or Italian could stillneed a libretto since grammar,
> structure and idioms have changed over the hundreds of years since the
> operas were composed. I'm sorry but I am not convinced that not
> including a text and translation can adversely affect the purchasers
> enjoyment of the product.  Wagner fan

I'm curious: to you feel you need a libretto to follow along when
listening to a Handel oratorio in English or one of Britten's English-
language operas?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:65b5087b-9d20-453a-be05-0ddce0a21d39
@y2g2000pbg.googlegroups.com:

> On Mar 18, 10:30 am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so cheap
>> it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing to each
>> other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And since the
>> listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy a libretto
>> and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the cheapness
>> factor goes out the window.  At the best its just stupidity on the part
>> of the company or at worst a callous disregard for the purchaser's
>> enjoyment of the recording.   Wagner Fan
>
> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including libretti
> in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of this box. Of
> course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and let the user
> print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a computer screen.

I would have considered a CD-R of the libretti, or a link to all of them
online, adequate under the circumstances.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:654c7e13-3ef2-4cc5-b7f4-a5a28bd79520
@kw7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

> All of this, of course, is beside the point that Universal has the
> texts and translations for the Verdi operas already in digital format,
> yet they did not provide them. And to think that for the Wagner box

> they had to _license_ Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot from EMI 裏they
> didn't even OWN those masters 裏yet they still managed to put together

> a handsome-looking PDF libretto on password-protected web link.
>
> By contrast, all the Verdi stuff in theirs.

Don't you mean Orfeo for "Die Feen" and "Das Liebesverbot"? "Rienzi," of
course, is from EMI.

[wagnerfan]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:38:40 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper"
<oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:65b5087b-9d20-453a-be05-0ddce0a21d39
>@y2g2000pbg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Mar 18, 10:30�am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so cheap
>>> it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing to each
>>> other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And since the
>>> listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy a libretto
>>> and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the cheapness
>>> factor goes out the window. �At the best its just stupidity on the part
>>> of the company or at worst a callous disregard for the purchaser's
>>> enjoyment of the recording. � Wagner Fan
>>
>> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
>> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including libretti
>> in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of this box. Of
>> course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and let the user
>> print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a computer screen.
>
>I would have considered a CD-R of the libretti, or a link to all of them
>online, adequate under the circumstances.

Yes and Brilliant Classics didn't seem to have a problem adding a
DVD-ROM with all texts, the complete sheet music and liner notes in
their complete Bach Edition.
Wagner fan

[Kip Williams]

Here are some online resources for opera librettos (which seems to be
the way you say it if you're an English speaker, though I still want to
type "libretti"):

Stanford's Libretto Homepage:
http://opera.stanford.edu/iu/librettim.html
compact and rich with links to collections of PD libretti & vocal texts

Opera Folio:
http://www.operafolio.com/list_of_opera_libretti.asp
1012 links to 506 operas (translations included), by composer/work.
Includes some recent material, like John Adams.

Lyle K. Neff, U. Delaware's Opera Libretti on the Web:
http://udel.edu/~lneff/alaegs.htm
May be similar to Stanford's.

EMI Classics "The Home of Opera":
http://www.emiopera.com/
"If you prefer to buy on iTunes, you can download the full programme
notes and libretto in pdf format." A link is given to sign up for opera
libretto downloads:
http://www.emiopera.com/download.php

Archive.org (search on 'opera libretto site:archive.org'):
https://www.google.com/search?q=opera+librettos&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=seamonkey-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=seamonkey-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=opera+libretto+site:archive.org&oq=opera+libretto+site:archive.org&gs_l=serp.3...650869.655686.0.655935.18.16.0.0.0.0.270.1704.11j4j1.16.0.les%3Bcappsweb..0.0...1.1.6.psy-ab.JTm0gF899y4&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.dmg&fp=aed33d9c1e2c31e4&biw=959&bih=548
You're better off copying the material in single quotes and doing a new
search than trying to paste that megillah. I see individual librettos,
and catalogs of librettos, and at least three volumes of _The Opera
Libretto Library_ there, just on the first page of results.

Project Gutenberg (search on 'libretto site:gutenberg.org'):
https://www.google.com/search?q=libretto+site%3Agutenberg.org&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=seamonkey-a
I have no idea how many PG has. There's a link to a wiki with what looks
like a smallish selection, if this is all they have:
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Opera_%28Bookshelf%29
...but perhaps it's an incomplete list.


Kip W

[weary flake]

Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including
> libretti in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of
> this box.

That's dirt cheap, so there's no excuse to not include a
printed libretto, other than to deliberately de-value
the product for the consumer.

> Of course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and
> let the user print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a
> computer screen.

Phooey, home printing would be costly, and greatly inferior
in result to the professionally printed libretto which is
commonly included as a manufactured booklet with operas.

> Let's not forget that libretti in translation are basically a crutch
> for those who aren't fluent in a particular foreign language. You can
> rail on record companies not providing translations, but the fact is
> that any listener who REALLY wanted to get deep into the world of
> opera would have to do the work necessary to gain a working knowledge
> of Italian, French and German.

I suppose learning foreign languages would be helped by
including printed librettos, so that's hardly an argument
to defend excluding them.

[Mike Painter]

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 06:24:40 -0700, Kip Williams wrote
(in article <rGZ1t.231175$uU.1...@newsfe11.iad>):

> Here are some online resources for opera librettos (which seems to be
> the way you say it if you're an English speaker, though I still want to
> type "libretti"):

[SNIP]


> Kip W




Thanks for the links to the libretti.

cheers,
Mike (who sometimes likes to listen to concerti, too ;-)

[William Sommerwerck]

I don't know what current printing costs are, but a $1 CD ROM can hold
thousands of pages of text, which would cost much more than $1 to print.

> Phooey, home printing would be costly, and greatly inferior
> in result to the professionally printed libretto which is
> commonly included as a manufactured booklet with operas.

I suspect you don't own a laser printer. The quality can be every bit good as
a "printed" document. Indeed, offset masters are usually created from a laser
mastering system (eg, Agfa).

I printed out the documents for the Hyperion Liszt set and put them in a
binder. Including the price of toner, the cost was no more than a few dollars.

[Mark S]

On Mar 19, 9:45 am, weary flake <wearyfl...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
> > production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including
> > libretti in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of
> > this box.
>
> That's dirt cheap, so there's no excuse to not include a
> printed libretto, other than to deliberately de-value
> the product for the consumer.

Following your logic, there's no reason that an opera house shouldn't
provide a free libretto to everyone attending a live performance, but
they don't. The usually sell them in the lobby for $6-10 a pop.

> > Let's not forget that libretti in translation are basically a crutch
> > for those who aren't fluent in a particular foreign language. You can
> > rail on record companies not providing translations, but the fact is
> > that any listener who REALLY wanted to get deep into the world of
> > opera would have to do the work necessary to gain a working knowledge
> > of Italian, French and German.
>
> I suppose learning foreign languages would be helped by
> including printed librettos, so that's hardly an argument
> to defend excluding them.

But it's not up to the record labels to teach one a foreign language,
is it? And if including a libretto helps people learn a foreign
language, why hasn't it seemed to work for all the long-time
collectors of opera on rmcr?

When I said that libretti were a crutch, I didn't mean that in its
most-pejorative sense. From the standpoint of the composer, I would
think that their biggest concern is that their opera communicate to
its intended audience. The words are important. That's why most of the
great composers approved of their operas being sung in foreign
translation when sung in a foreign country. Mozart's Italian operas
were routinely sung in German in Vienna and Germany until after WWII.
Relying on a printed libretto with a translation is at best a
necessary evil when one has no familiarity with the sung language.
It's certainly not the ideal situation.

That's all I was getting at.

[wagnerfan]

The days of opera houses selling libretti in the lobby are going
going gone - useless any way since you can't read them in the theatre
and more and more theatres have supertitles (for free) or some other
way for the audience to understand the language. Still waiting for a
reasonable explantion as to why there is not at least a link to the
libretto online esp when the previous issues did have a libretto - the
idea that a purchaser buys a set of Haydn operas with no translations
is absolutely ridiculous from the standpoint of the consumer. Wagner
fan

[Steve de Mena]

On 3/18/13 11:38 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:65b5087b-9d20-453a-be05-0ddce0a21d39
> @y2g2000pbg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Mar 18, 10:30 am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so cheap
>>> it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing to each
>>> other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And since the
>>> listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy a libretto
>>> and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the cheapness
>>> factor goes out the window. At the best its just stupidity on the part
>>> of the company or at worst a callous disregard for the purchaser's
>>> enjoyment of the recording. Wagner Fan
>>
>> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
>> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including libretti
>> in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of this box. Of
>> course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and let the user
>> print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a computer screen.
>
> I would have considered a CD-R of the libretti, or a link to all of them
> online, adequate under the circumstances.

Most likely they would have offered a (pressed) CD-ROM disc, not a CD-R.

Steve

[Martin]

If I understand comments in this thread correctly, the Solti Decca boxes each have a CD-ROM with libretti. Like the Decca complete Verdi box, the EMI Verdi Great Operas box, http://www.mdt.co.uk/verdi-the-great-operas-emi-35cds.html, does not.

Is that right?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:3dydnd1Jv4w4S9XM...@giganews.com:

That would have been fine too.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Kip, thanks for the useful resources.

[Oscar]

On Mar 24, 2:26 am, Martin wrote:
>
> If I understand comments in this thread correctly, the Solti Decca
> boxes each have a CD-ROM with libretti. Like the Decca complete Verdi

> box, the EMI Verdi Great Operas box does not.
>
> Is that right?

I believe you may be following up on something I posted earlier. That
is, that the similarly-conceived Universal Complete Wagner Operas big
box, issued a few weeks before the Verdi box, did come with very nice
PDF libretti on password-protected web link. This box was compiled by
the same executives, assembled at the same time, and issued by the
same company. But there is nothing in the way of libretti in the Verdi
box.

Of course, there are resources on the WWW to gain these resources on
one's own, but it is flummoxing, to say the least, to consider that
Universal did it for one opera composer and not the other. Especially
when one considers all the libretti are already in digital format from
previous releases. And, as several have indicated, there are more
'underperformed' and obscure Verdi operas than there are Wagner music
dramas, so the omission of libretti is doubly frustrating.

[Oscar]

On Mar 24, 2:02 pm, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
> Kip, thanks for the useful resources.

Yes, thanks to Kip!!

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:bcfb7629-41e2-4da0-b8b3-
cad809...@i5g2000pbj.googlegroups.com:

Oscar, I think you have summed it up perfectly.

[Dana John Hill]

On 3/17/2013 3:01 PM, td wrote:
> On Mar 7, 3:06 am, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 12:37:52 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>>>> While the product description says nothing about this, Universal has
>>>> been pretty good about including a CD-ROM or making the libretti
>>>> available as a download with their budget opera boxes.
>>
>>> I'd still recommend waiting until their English-language product
>>> description states, clearly and definitively, whether there are texts.
>>
>> No texts (duh), no CD-ROM. And no web link, either, which is kind of surprising because such was provided in the Wagner Complete Operas DG 43CD set issued in January. A password-protected web link provided attractively-designed PDF libretti of all contents. Print, and buy a 1" binder + three-hole punch, or get a laminating machine from Staples. 'That was easy'http://tiny.cc/rzdktw
>
> No texts? You want opera libretti for a 75 CD set with the price at
> $2.00 per CD?
>
> Are you dreaming?
>
> TD
>



I get it: printed libretti cost money. My question is, does the omission
of libretti (and the associated reduction in price) hurt or help sales
of these big boxes? Would the Verdi box, with libretti, at an added cost
of, say, $30, sell fewer copies? What about with a disc of .pdf files at
a cost of, say, $3?

Dana John Hill
Gainesville, Florida

[Mark S]

I would guess that in this case, adding libretti wouldn't add to unit
sales.

I'm guessing the marketing guys looked at sales data and made a call.

[Dana John Hill]

On 3/18/2013 1:40 PM, Mark S wrote:
> On Mar 18, 10:30 am, wagnerfan <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:39:56 -0700, Mike Painter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <mikhail.NOSPAM.pain...@sbcglobal.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:06:32 -0700, Herman wrote
>>> (in article <6fa36e21-5ce0-434d...@googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>>> On Monday, March 18, 2013 4:10:16 AM UTC+1, Oscar wrote:
>>>>> . But I don't have much Verdi. So it is
>>
>>>>> disappointing. I really wanna know what Attila is saying to Ezio.
>>
>>>> etting hold of the Attila libretto is just a matter of using google and half
>>>> a brain:
>>
>>> http://www.giuseppeverdi.it/stampabile.asp?IDCategoria=162&IDSezione=...
>>
>>>> 844
>>
>>>> To me this is just typical spoiled consumer whining, also known as the Tepper
>>
>>>> Syndrome. You're getting 75 cds with good performances at two dollars a disc,
>>
>>>> and you expect to get all the extras, too?
>>
>>> For an opera recording, I don't consider the libretto an "extra."
>>
>>> Mike
>>

>> I've seen this absurd argument before here - since the CDs are so
>> cheap it shouldn't matter that you don't what the actors are singing
>> to each other. A revolutionary way to enjoy a drama I must say. And
>> since the listener who wants to know the details of the drama must buy
>> a libretto and translation either from ebay or other sources, even the
>> cheapness factor goes out the window. At the best its just stupidity
>> on the part of the company or at worst a callous disregard for the
>> purchaser's enjoyment of the recording. Wagner Fan
>
> A hardcopy libretto for an opera on CD usually costs about $1 in
> production costs per opera, so the additional cost of including
> libretti in this set would have added over $30 to the end price of
> this box. Of course, the other option is to put them all on a CD-R and
> let the user print their own libretto of watch the libretto on a
> computer screen.
>

> Let's not forget that libretti in translation are basically a crutch
> for those who aren't fluent in a particular foreign language. You can
> rail on record companies not providing translations, but the fact is
> that any listener who REALLY wanted to get deep into the world of
> opera would have to do the work necessary to gain a working knowledge
> of Italian, French and German.
>

I have a BMG club issue of George Pr�tre conducting vocal music by
Poulenc. It's unusual repertoire, and my French is pretty weak.
Fortunately, BMG Classical Music service commissioned a translation of
the text and included it in the booklet, along with a note remarking how
the inclusion of text and translation would add greatly to the enjoyment
of the music.

[wagnerfan]

Exactly - it had nothing to do with what the consumers would
actually need. As for Deacon's absurd complaint about OMG adding
libretti when its already 2 dollars a CD I guess he never heard of
linking to a pdf or including a cd rom - oh I forgot he doesn;t really
GET opera anyway so how would he be able to comprehend the necessity.
Wagner fan

[Oscar]

ArkivMusic is now offering the set for $159.99.

I noticed a new addendum that _ArkivMusic_ added to the marketing
blurb. Check out the very last line http://tiny.cc/9pijuw That wasn't
there when this set first appeared. Apparently, there must be at least
four or five Verdians who have voiced their dissatisfaction — after
first opening the box, natch, which Arkiv and Universal really hates.
Of course, these persons number among the spoiled, witless Luddite
drones who use multi-language libretti as a 'crutch' because they are
too 'lazy' yadda yadda etc.

<< On the 200th anniversary of Verdi's birth in 2013 Decca are proud
to present the first ever complete collection of Verdis entire
compositional output: The operas, arias, songs, sacred works, chamber
and piano pieces, orchestral, ballet and choral works, plus a whole
host of rarities and discoveries are all here in this comprehensive
and beautifully presented anthology.

All of Verdi's works are contained in this luxury edition. 30 complete
operas sequenced chronologically, including two versions of La forza
del destino and two versions of Don Carlo & Don Carlos:

La forza del destino - 1862 St Petersburg version (Gergiev) & 1869
Milan version (Sinopoli)

Don Carlos - Five-act 1886 Modena version sung in French (Abbado) &
five-act 1886 Modena version sung in Italian (Solti).

First international CD release of Quartetto Italiano's 1950 recording
of Verdi's String Quartet in E minor.

An unrivaled compilation featuring the world's greatest singers,
including Caballé, Carreras, Cotrubas, Domingo, Freni, Horne,
Pavarotti & Sutherland.

The astounding wealth of benchmark recordings presents an unparalleled
legacy of Verdi conducting featuring Abbado, Bonynge, Chailly, Chung,
Gardelli, Gergiev, Giulini, Karajan, Kleiber, Levine, Luisi, Maag,
Marriner, Muti, Sinopoli & Solti.

This carefully curated edition brings together the best available
versions of these works. A once-in-a-liftetime collection of the
finest recordings from Decca, Deutsche Grammophon, Philips & EMI.

An informative essay by opera critic and writer George Hall gives an
overview of Verdi’s life and career; cue-pointed synopses in English,
French, and German are included for each opera; full production
details and cast lists are presented across two hardback books.

Opera libretti are _not_ included in this set. >>

[Steve de Mena]

It's marketed as a Limited Edition and I think the edition will
probably sell out. Maybe there was a copyright or rights issue with
one or more English translations and they just decided to not bother
working that out or paying money for it.

Steve

[afsa...@gmail.com]

Can anyone comment on the availability of "good/complete" meta data for these 75 CDs for ripping to Sonos? I rather no spend days fixing things.

Thank you.

afs

[David Fox]

If this set is true to form, the individual discs will match to previous
opera issues. If the operas contained have been relatively
mainstream releases, they should identify well. This pattern held has
held for me with many large reissue boxes, including both MLP boxes, the
Toscanini box, the Karajan EMI boxes, etc.

DF

[td]

No sung texts?

1. Most buyers never use them.
2. Sung texts would increase the cost. Many texts are still in copyright. Specially translations.

Suggestion? Like Verdi? Like Puccini? Like Rossini?

LEARN ITALIAN!

And stop qvetching?

TD

[Edward A. Cowan]

» Print, and buy a 1" binder + three-hole punch, or get a laminating machine from Staples. 'That was easy' http://tiny.cc/rzdktw «

Or get a box of sheet protectors from Office Depot? and add a special binder to hold the printed libretto? and get some new printer ink cartridges?... --E.A.C.

[Willem Orange]

Will you get off that stupid and ridiculous soapbox already??? YES buyers need texts and translations for the less well known Verdi operas e.g. Stiffelio, Oberto, and others. Just get them onto a CD ROM (like a box of rarer Handel operas all conducted by Alan Curtis - the CD ROM has extensive notes and texts and translations) You really are clueless about the lyric stage and appreciation of opera - we have gone over this countless times in this group - give it up already - absolutely one of the dullest posters over - he gets into a position and won't move regardless of any sense that comes his way - ridiculous.

[Edward A. Cowan]

I still have the Orfeo LP sets of Oberto (Dimitrova, Bergonzi, Panerai, Baldani, cond. Gardelli) and Alzira (Cotrubas, Araiza, Bruson, cond. Gardelli). Each recording (DMM) contains a booklet with introductory material, graphics, and a libretto in four languages (Italian, English, French, German). I'm glad I still have these to refer to. --E.A.C.


On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:46:48 AM UTC-5, wade wrote:

> Glad I saved a hard copy Libretto for each of the original LP issues, at least 1 representative booklet for each Verdi opera issued on LP. Essential if you want an English translation, as usually that is what actually is being copyright protected.

[Willem Orange]

I know for the CD issue of the Decca Oberto you could download notes and translation from their website. Also important for different editions e.g. Don Carlo in the Italian and French versions. Notwithstanding copyright issues, there is absolutely no question that one needs texts and translations to enjoy opera in languages with which one is unfamiliar - or is one supposed to study Czech to enjoy Rusalka (I assume for some who don't know any better the dulcet tones of la Phleming with help them get through two hours of dramatic ignorance) its a non -issue with me - opera is drama and one must know what is happening all the time.

[Dana John Hill]

Sure, in a perfect world I would have learned a half-dozen languages in
school, but, alas I did not. So at this point I have a choice: spend the
next decade of my life studying Italian, German, French, Russian, and
Czech, or spend the equivalent time listening to non-English language
operas with a libretto and translation in my hand.

I fully agree that speaking more than one language is a wholly
worthwhile skill and opens a person to a entire world of amazing
cultures. I can speak two languages and having a basic reading knowledge
of two more - not nearly as good as an average European, but for a
lower-class, public-school-educated American, not too shabby.

Still, texts and translations are helpful and appreciated.

[Willem Orange]

And necessary for full enjoyment

[Mr. Mike]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 03:19:09 -0800 (PST), td <tomde...@mac.com>
wrote:

>No sung texts?
>
>1. Most buyers never use them.

When I bought the Bohm Elektra on DGG about 50 years ago, it had no
libretto. This didn't bother me because it sounded very cool. It
wasn't for a long time after this that I had the libretto, and even
after owning one as well as the piano score, I rarely followed it.
There is this thing called a "plot synopsis," that is enough.

I had similar feelings about Karajan's Parsifal, which I bought on CD
years later. I couldn't bear to follow it with the libretto. The
prospect of doing so was just too nauseating -- almost as nauseating
as watching some Euro-trash video of this opera more recently.

Come to think of it, I always resist buying classical music via
Itunes, etc. because there is no "booklet." But then I think of all
the booklets of all the CDs I have, how many have I actually bothered
reading? Not many. This still won't convince me to buy music from
Itunes, because organizing and dealing with that format is such a huge
PITA.

[Willem Orange]

I'm so glad Elektra sounded "so cool"

[wade]

I thought the original DG Elektra was packaged with a thick booklet and a separate copy of the Boosey & Hawkes(?) Libretto with translation.

[Mr. Mike]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:05:38 -0800 (PST), wade <wade...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I thought the original DG Elektra was packaged with a thick booklet and a separate copy of the Boosey & Hawkes(?) Libretto with translation.

Not the one I bought via the Hudson's Bay Company in Vancouver in the
early 1960s. It just has the booklet. It took an eternity to get to me
because The Bay's record department didn't usually handle classical
music of this nature.

[Willem Orange]

The original Elektra issue did have the separate booklets so don't know what happened to yours - fortunately it didn't matter anyway for you

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in

news:6a3d8275-a34f-4a12...@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 12:37:52 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>> > While the product description says nothing about this, Universal has
>> > been pretty good about including a CD-ROM or making the libretti
>> > available as a download with their budget opera boxes.
>>
>> I'd still recommend waiting until their English-language product
>> description states, clearly and definitively, whether there are texts.
>
> No texts (duh), no CD-ROM. And no web link, either, which is kind of
> surprising because such was provided in the Wagner Complete Operas DG
> 43CD set issued in January. A password-protected web link provided

> attractively-designed PDF libretti of all contents. Print, and buy a 1"

> binder + three-hole punch, or get a laminating machine from Staples.
> 'That was easy' http://tiny.cc/rzdktw

Please clarify -- is the password-protected web link for the Verdi libretti
(many of which I, and many other people, don't already have for the
obscurer works), or the Wagner (trivially available on other recordings, or
for that matter, online).

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Dana John Hill <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:lc6fab$6v1$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

I can sort of get by in French, German, and Italian (and I even have a
small amount of Czech), but even if I were totally fluent and proficient in
a language, that might not help in ensembles, or at any time when the
singers' diction is imperfect.

In such circumstances, texts and translations are vitally important.

And "qvetching"? Mit a "q" rather than a "k"? Obviously, Yiddish is not
one of The Antichrist's languages.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Mr. Mike <m...@spamcop.net> appears to have caused the following letters to
be typed in news:k8nde9ld4hpsrtt1i...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 03:19:09 -0800 (PST), The Antichrist

My experience is not the same as yours. For example, when DGG licensed
Taneyev's "The Oresteia," it had no libretto, and I didn't buy it.
Likewise Melodiya-Columbia's LP issue of Shostakovich's "The Nose," and
then BMG's CD reissue thereof (which caused me to go online and issue a
consumer alert so that others would be aware of the omission). Those
omissions sharply reduced the value of the issues, in my opinion.

Some here may recall that I made a point of buying DGG's earlier boxed
edition of the Rachmaninoff operas, since the Trio reissue had no texts.
That's a lost sale right there (I bought the original from an eBay seller,
and it cost more than the new price of the Trio).

Perhaps some people like letting the pretty tunes flow through your ears,
but some others of us like to know what the story is about.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

So, has it been revealed whether the set includes libretti and English
translations, whether paper or digital?

[Willem Orange]

Yes it has and they do not - Also the set does NOT include all the music Verdi wrote for his operas - the 1847 Macbeth arias are missing. Decca should have licensed the Muti recording which included these arias.

[Willem Orange]

On Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:40:07 AM UTC-5, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

Yes it has and they do not - also the set is not complete in that the arias Verdi composed for the 1847 Macbeth which were later replaced in 1865 are missing.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Willem Orange <ivanm...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following

letters to be typed in

news:4c8264cf-2210-4585...@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:40:07 AM UTC-5, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> So, has it been revealed whether the set includes libretti and English
>> translations, whether paper or digital?
>

> Yes it has and they do not - Also the set does NOT include all the music
> Verdi wrote for his operas - the 1847 Macbeth arias are missing. Decca
> should have licensed the Muti recording which included these arias.

Thanks for the sad news. As the kids say, "epic fail."

[Dana John Hill]

On 2/19/2014 11:43 PM, Willem Orange wrote:
> On Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:40:07 AM UTC-5, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> So, has it been revealed whether the set includes libretti and English
>>
>> translations, whether paper or digital?
>>
>>
>

> Yes it has and they do not - Also the set does NOT include all the music Verdi wrote for his operas - the 1847 Macbeth arias are missing. Decca should have licensed the Muti recording which included these arias.
>

They'd have to go back to the first CD issue of Muti's recording to get
those. Once EMI went to two discs on this, they dropped the bonus arias.
This is the three-disc release:

http://www.amazon.de/Verdi-Macbeth-Guiseppe/dp/B000M4BM1U/

I share in others' bemusement at Universal's omission of printed texts
and translations in the Verdi set, given that many of Verdi's
pre-Rigoletto operas are less-common. It was a stupid move on the
label's part.

But I would advise that, given the relatively low cost of used CDs these
days, one ought not be discouraged at the idea of buying these works on
an individual basis, since many can be found quite cheaply used. I often
see the Gardelli series on ebay, and the prices are not outrageous. Add
Luisi's three recordings, and a Marriner Oberto here, and a Levine
Giovanna d'Arco there, plus your preferred Vespri, Nabucco, and Ernani
(I'd recommend, in order, Levine on RCA, Sinopoli on DG, and Levine on a
Pioneer or DG DVD) and you're in business - assuming you've already got
the major works in your collection (if you're starting from scratch,
then, yeah, it'd have been a dream to buy one box and be done with it).

As an opera fan, I procured the Verdi works early on in my collecting
days, and bought each piece individually. Yeah, it takes up a lot of
shelf space, but those libretti are very, very helpful.

[jrsnfld]

On Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:21:26 AM UTC-8, Dana John Hill wrote:

> > Yes it has and they do not - Also the set does NOT include all the music Verdi wrote for his operas - the 1847 Macbeth arias are missing. Decca should have licensed the Muti recording which included these arias.
>
> They'd have to go back to the first CD issue of Muti's recording to get
> those. Once EMI went to two discs on this, they dropped the bonus arias.
> This is the three-disc release:
>
> http://www.amazon.de/Verdi-Macbeth-Guiseppe/dp/B000M4BM1U/

Hey, thanks for the link! I guess I hadn't seen that 3-disc issue when I went ahead and purchased the 2-disc Muti Macbeth a few weeks ago. As you say, used operas are a dime a dozen these days and it seemed like the right time to finally explore more of Muti's recordings. Still not sure yet if it's the "go-to" Macbeth but it's very good anyway, when I'm in the mood for a headlong plunge through the music.

It seems wise to buy used individual issues rather than buy big boxes, unless one finds other cheap ways to get the libretti. For example, one can buy the libretti in (even cheaper) box sets of LPs. Or...do a little googling for the libretti for free (assuming you're adept at spotting cuts and other changes, which are frequent in opera recordings).

--Jeff

[Dana John Hill]

I am embarrassed that I never thought of buying old LP sets for the
libretti. Almost every time I find a collection of classical LPs for
sale, I'll see a ton of opera sets, including those Gardelli Verdi
recordings. You won't likely find LPs of Aroldo, Jerusalem, or Alzira,
but most other Verdi operas exist in multiple recordings.

As it is, I have acquired my opera collection in an extremely careful
and methodical way (unlike many of my recent non-vocal purchases, which
have come in large mega-boxes of this and that), and have often gone way
out of my way to get CD editions with printed libretti. It took me a
long time, for example, to track down a copy of Kubelik's Mathis der
Maler, which had been released on CD for a short time, then disappeared.
Used copies were nowhere to be found. I even wrote to EMI asking if
there was a chance it'd come out in the GRotC series, to which they
responded that it had only sold a couple hundred copies while it was in
print, and that it was unlikely to be reissued. (They have, since then,
reissued it, but without the original documentation.) In the end,
Academy in NYC listed a mint copy on ebay, and I snatched it up.

But, to make the point that used-market opera sets are getting quite
affordable, I see that that Kubelik Mathis der Maler is now available
from multiple sellers on Amazon for much less than its original retail
price.

[Willem Orange]

I have often gone to ebay to get old opera lps sets, not only for the libretti that are needed to properly appreciate the drama but often because they are just so much more of a pleasure to read than the miniscule booklets we get in the CD sets. The book that came with the original release of the Christoff Mussourgsky songs was a model of its kind and the Soria booklets of course really enhanced the listening experience.

[Dana John Hill]

On 2/21/2014 4:31 PM, Willem Orange wrote:
>
> I have often gone to ebay to get old opera lps sets, not only for the libretti that are needed to properly appreciate the drama but often because they are just so much more of a pleasure to read than the miniscule booklets we get in the CD sets. The book that came with the original release of the Christoff Mussourgsky songs was a model of its kind and the Soria booklets of course really enhanced the listening experience.
>

I think I know what you mean. The Decca Grand Opera series on CD
included texts and translations, but almost nothing else besides. The
book that came with the LP of Thomas' Hamlet (Milnes/Sutherland/Bonynge)
has ample notes and illustrations, etc. And, of course, there were the
facsimile scores with the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach cantatas, and the
wonderful notes by H.C. Robbins Landon in the Dorati Haydn LPs. Probably
many more examples. My biggest regret about the shift from LP to CD was
the miniaturization of presentation.

I would like to believe that the rise of digital hardware like tablets
and the like would bring with it more substantial documentation by
record labels. But if you look at the e-booklets that come with even
large, expensive recordings (like the new DG Bernstein Edition that I
have seen), you will often find that no effort has been made to do more.
Since it wouldn't cost anything extra at all to give a digitized
libretto to, say, Fidelio, or even just the introductory essays that
accompanied the individual LP and CD releases, why not include them?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Dana John Hill <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:le8i39$5do$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:

> On 2/21/2014 4:31 PM, Willem Orange wrote:
>>
>> I have often gone to ebay to get old opera lps sets, not only for the
>> libretti that are needed to properly appreciate the drama but often
>> because they are just so much more of a pleasure to read than the
>> miniscule booklets we get in the CD sets. The book that came with the
>> original release of the Christoff Mussourgsky songs was a model of its
>> kind and the Soria booklets of course really enhanced the listening
>> experience.
>>
>
> I think I know what you mean. The Decca Grand Opera series on CD included
> texts and translations, but almost nothing else besides. The book that
> came with the LP of Thomas' Hamlet (Milnes/Sutherland/Bonynge) has ample
> notes and illustrations, etc. And, of course, there were the facsimile
> scores with the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach cantatas, and the wonderful
> notes by H.C. Robbins Landon in the Dorati Haydn LPs. Probably many more
> examples. My biggest regret about the shift from LP to CD was the
> miniaturization of presentation.

It's all how you look at it; I believe there are rock much fans who regret
the move because album cover art could no longer be as large and as
detailed as it had been in the LP days.

> I would like to believe that the rise of digital hardware like tablets
> and the like would bring with it more substantial documentation by
> record labels. But if you look at the e-booklets that come with even
> large, expensive recordings (like the new DG Bernstein Edition that I
> have seen), you will often find that no effort has been made to do more.
> Since it wouldn't cost anything extra at all to give a digitized
> libretto to, say, Fidelio, or even just the introductory essays that
> accompanied the individual LP and CD releases, why not include them?

Laziness? Stupidity? Cheapness?

[Steve de Mena]

On 2/22/14, 4:41 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

>> I would like to believe that the rise of digital hardware like tablets
>> and the like would bring with it more substantial documentation by
>> record labels. But if you look at the e-booklets that come with even
>> large, expensive recordings (like the new DG Bernstein Edition that I

Is the new Bernstein Edition "expensive"? You would think by now
these re-re-issues would be 2-3 bucks a disc.

>> have seen), you will often find that no effort has been made to do more.
>> Since it wouldn't cost anything extra at all to give a digitized
>> libretto to, say, Fidelio, or even just the introductory essays that
>> accompanied the individual LP and CD releases, why not include them?
>
> Laziness? Stupidity? Cheapness?
>

Maybe they realize it's not worth the effort... no ROI.

Opera libretti - I generally could care less, except perhaps if it's
an opera in English, like the Britten operas I bought in their
original editions instead of the boxed collection, or the Scott Joplin
"Treemonisha". I doubt I am the only one who doesn't consider this a
deal breaker.

Steve

[Willem Orange]

No there many others who have no idea what opera means as drama.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Steve de Mena <st...@demena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:Tfednb6rYbIiNJTO...@giganews.com:

> On 2/22/14, 4:41 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>

>> Dana John Hill <da...@danajohnhill.com> appears to have caused the
>> following letters to be typed in news:le8i39$5do$1...@usenet.osg.ufl.edu:
>>

>>> Since it wouldn't cost anything extra at all to give a digitized
>>> libretto to, say, Fidelio, or even just the introductory essays that
>>> accompanied the individual LP and CD releases, why not include them?
>>
>> Laziness? Stupidity? Cheapness?
>
> Maybe they realize it's not worth the effort... no ROI.
>
> Opera libretti - I generally could care less, except perhaps if it's an
> opera in English, like the Britten operas I bought in their original
> editions instead of the boxed collection, or the Scott Joplin
> "Treemonisha". I doubt I am the only one who doesn't consider this a
> deal breaker.
>
> Steve

I admit that "Treemonisha" doesn't have the most literate libretto in all
opera, but at least it has managed to get into public domain, so is
available online. Whereas the English (and other) translations of the more
obscure Verdi operas haven't. My copy of 101 Opera Librettos contains
Paderewski's "Manru" (the only portion of which is a "La, la, la, la"
chorus preserved on Mapleson cylinders) and Horatio Parker's "Mona," but
"Stiffelio"? Not here!

Simply put, Universal didn't think their audience deserved to know what was
being sung, and/or assumed that the people who bought the set would buy it
because it was A Real Bargain and just wanted to hear purty singing.

[Willem Orange]

Or they thought e.g. lets just release this box of obscure Haydn operas and not worry about the consumer when they find out there's no text or translation. We have our money - if they want to return it for a refund we'll worry about that later but most likely they'll just put it on the shelf, maybe listen to a bit to two once in awhile and why should we care - we have our money. The right thing to do if it would be too expensive to add a CD ROM or get the translation up on the Internet so it could be accessed by the consumer would be not to release the thing at all in deference to the consumer but that doesn't happen- they don't care. OR-----its plain stupidity

[Dana John Hill]

On 2/23/2014 2:56 AM, Steve de Mena wrote:
> On 2/22/14, 4:41 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
>>> I would like to believe that the rise of digital hardware like tablets
>>> and the like would bring with it more substantial documentation by
>>> record labels. But if you look at the e-booklets that come with even
>>> large, expensive recordings (like the new DG Bernstein Edition that I
>
> Is the new Bernstein Edition "expensive"? You would think by now these
> re-re-issues would be 2-3 bucks a disc.
>

To be fair, I actually don't know what the cost for this set will be.
I'd assume well north of $100. Certainly that's not expensive on a
per-disc basis, but, like the DG Karajan sets, these big boxes can eat
up a person's CD budget for the month.

And if DG is going to go to the effort and expense of commissioning new
introductory essays, as well as scanning of CD covers and contents, why
not just give us the original notes and texts/translations.

Did you see what Sony did with the Yo-Yo Ma box? Why can't DG do
something like that with Bernstein? Is it because Bernstein is no longer
alive and Ma is? Does Bernstein not sell these days? I'm not cracking
wise; I really don't know.

[Steve de Mena]

Yes, I think it is because Bernstein is no longer alive, so they don't
need to please him....

Steve