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Chopin Competition 2021

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Andy Evans

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Oct 4, 2021, 4:11:59 AM10/4/21
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https://chopin2020.pl/en/calendar

The Chopin Competition has begun. Hopefully there will be a more interesting winner than with the Leeds.

I'm always interested in following piano competitions!

HT

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Oct 4, 2021, 6:32:51 AM10/4/21
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Op maandag 4 oktober 2021 om 10:11:59 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> https://chopin2020.pl/en/calendar
>
> The Chopin Competition has begun. Hopefully there will be a more interesting winner than with the Leeds.
>
> I'm always interested in following piano competitions!

The number of Polish members of the jury is out of proportion. So is the number of candidates. Some of them even skipped the preliminaries. Without Argerich and Freire the competition may be full of surprises.

Henk

Andy Evans

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Oct 4, 2021, 7:26:55 AM10/4/21
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On Monday, 4 October 2021 at 11:32:51 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> The number of Polish members of the jury is out of proportion. So is the number of candidates. Some of them even skipped the preliminaries. Without Argerich and Freire the competition may be full of surprises. > > Henk

I'm slogging through the first rounds. At least the music is exceptionally familiar and holds no surprises. Nobody is standing out so far. Some good pianists to my ears e.g. Arseniy Mun, Evren Ozel, Kamil Pakholiz, Jung Min Park (spelling may be quite wrong). Early days. Quite a number will be rightly eliminated. I feel for all the pianists - so many years of hard work, so many ambitions, so hard to break through and not end up as a teacher. I'm sure many are nervous as well - it shows at times.

Fortunately I just rebuilt my SE 300b amp to use Russian 6C4C tubes and it's sounding very nice on piano reproduction.

Ricardo Jimenez

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Oct 4, 2021, 2:15:54 PM10/4/21
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Youtube star Hayato Sumino aka Canteen is competing. How is he doing?
He can play the first Chopin etude as fast and accurately as anybody.

HT

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Oct 4, 2021, 3:10:20 PM10/4/21
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Op maandag 4 oktober 2021 om 20:15:54 UTC+2 schreef Ricardo Jimenez:
He played today. This was his program:

12.30 – 13.00
HAYATO SUMINO (Japonia / Japan)
https://chopin2020.pl/en/competitors/...

Nokturn c-moll op. 48 nr 1 / Nocturne in C minor, Op. 48 No. 1 (2:39:31)
Etiuda C-dur op. 10 nr 1 / Etude in C major, Op. 10 No. 1 (2:45:46)
Etiuda h-moll op. 25 nr 10 / Etude in B minor, Op. 25 No. 10 (2:47:48)
Scherzo h-moll op. 20 / Scherzo in B minor, Op 20 (2:52:06)

Henk

Ricardo Jimenez

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Oct 4, 2021, 3:16:39 PM10/4/21
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I couldn't find the performances at that link, but here they are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5jVN3dvZ8

Chris from Lafayette

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Oct 4, 2021, 6:59:57 PM10/4/21
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As you know, I missed the Leeds Competition completely this year, but Ms. CfL and started to gingerly dip our toes into Chopin XVIII last night with the first five competitors. I rarely get to hear all the competitors from the first round, but here are my impressions of the five we heard:

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/classical/messages/2/29683.html

Ricardo Jimenez

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Oct 4, 2021, 7:46:11 PM10/4/21
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I don't have the ability to listen to these short concerts of the same
pieces over and over. I suppose people who can watch spectator
sports, which seem to me to be the same plays over and over, can also
watch and listen to these things without going nuts.

Herman

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Oct 5, 2021, 3:29:33 AM10/5/21
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I haven't yet paid much attention to this competition yet, but I did happen to see pictures of a concert featuring Yulianna Avdeedva and what looked like a string quartet.
Was this in the 2021 proceedings? what was that about?

Al Eisner

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Oct 5, 2021, 5:22:46 PM10/5/21
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On Mon, 4 Oct 2021, Andy Evans wrote:

> https://chopin2020.pl/en/calendar
>
> The Chopin Competition has begun. Hopefully there will be a more interesting winner than with the Leeds.

Perhaps, but the accouncers for the Leeds did say that it was the most
important international piano competition (unqualified by words like
"in England"). :)

> I'm always interested in following piano competitions!

I doubt if I will pay attention until they are down to at least the
semi's.
--
Al Eisner

Graham

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Oct 5, 2021, 6:18:59 PM10/5/21
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On 2021-10-05 3:22 p.m., Al Eisner wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021, Andy Evans wrote:
>
>> https://chopin2020.pl/en/calendar
>>
>> The Chopin Competition has begun. Hopefully there will be a more
>> interesting winner than with the Leeds.
>
> Perhaps, but the accouncers for the Leeds did say that it was the most
> important international piano competition (unqualified by words like
> "in England").  :)
>

So how would you rank all the more notable ones?

Herman

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Oct 6, 2021, 3:02:28 AM10/6/21
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I watched part of Tuesday's proceedings, and was struck by the awfulness of the last candidate, an Italian kid with hair hanging down his face. His Etudes weren't too great and his Fantaisie suffered a memory lapse which should have sufficed to put him out of the competition.

Andy Evans

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Oct 6, 2021, 7:52:40 AM10/6/21
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Yasuko Furumi had very nice touch today, morning of 6th. Alberto Ferro was alright too - a good sense of architecture. Alexander Gadjiev held my interest too, though he doesn't really have the pianism. Martin Garcia made the music dance. Not a bad day so far! But like many I was waiting for Eva Gevorgyan, simply because she's seriously good-looking. She looks quite the media personality but in front of the piano she seemed nervous. In fact you can see the fingers of the left hand shaking quite visibly on a number of pianists. More so than the right hand for some reason. Maybe Chris can offer an insight?

Anyway - just listening to her first piece. Eva is mostly behaving herself and has a nice touch, but no fireworks so far. Etude 25/11 was nothing special. With hair as long as she has she could have a go at Melisande if she sings as well. I'm sorry, being a bit fanciful here but good Melisandes don't grow on trees. Her Scherzo #4 is going a lot better. Looks as if her nerves have settled a bit. Yes, she can certainly play, but not sure how far she'll progress.

Quite a funny moment when one of the ushers had to stop her going back on stage for another bow!!! She's certainly media-aware.

HT

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Oct 6, 2021, 10:43:04 AM10/6/21
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Op woensdag 6 oktober 2021 om 13:52:40 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> Yasuko Furumi had very nice touch today, morning of 6th. Alberto Ferro was alright too - a good sense of architecture. Alexander Gadjiev held my interest too, though he doesn't really have the pianism. Martin Garcia made the music dance. Not a bad day so far! But like many I was waiting for Eva Gevorgyan, simply because she's seriously good-looking. She looks quite the media personality but in front of the piano she seemed nervous. In fact you can see the fingers of the left hand shaking quite visibly on a number of pianists. More so than the right hand for some reason. Maybe Chris can offer an insight?
>
> Anyway - just listening to her first piece. Eva is mostly behaving herself and has a nice touch, but no fireworks so far. Etude 25/11 was nothing special. With hair as long as she has she could have a go at Melisande if she sings as well. I'm sorry, being a bit fanciful here but good Melisandes don't grow on trees. Her Scherzo #4 is going a lot better. Looks as if her nerves have settled a bit. Yes, she can certainly play, but not sure how far she'll progress.
>
> Quite a funny moment when one of the ushers had to stop her going back on stage for another bow!!! She's certainly media-aware.

Agreed, Gadjiev and Georgyan are interesting. I also liked, in no special order: Mun (for playing Op. 48/2 instead of 48/1), Ozel (sympathetic and solid), Sawada (genius, he also studies medicine), Sorita (one of a kind), Tuan (hidden power), Zenin (reminds me of Zak), Z. Wang (remarkable Op. 10/7), and Gonzalez (left hand).
Somehow, I have the feeling that the coming days will be even more interesting. I hope so, at least.

The chat on YT is merciless, and sometimes quite informative and even funny (like the self-appointed wrong note police - who cannot stop finding what he is looking for, even when it isn't there).

Henk


Herman

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Oct 6, 2021, 10:54:52 AM10/6/21
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On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 1:52:40 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> Yasuko Furumi had very nice touch today, morning of 6th. Alberto Ferro was alright too - a good sense of architecture. Alexander Gadjiev held my interest too, though he doesn't really have the pianism. Martin Garcia made the music dance. Not a bad day so far! But like many I was waiting for Eva Gevorgyan, simply because she's seriously good-looking. She looks quite the media personality but in front of the piano she seemed nervous.

It's a bit iffy to talk about the way female performers look, but frankly I think Gevorgyan looks borderline creepy, and the long ponytail doesn't help either. Teenagers who let their hair grow that long....

To compensate, I thought some of the men looked pretty silly, too. Also in their stage demeanor.

Andy Evans

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Oct 6, 2021, 11:11:15 AM10/6/21
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On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:54:52 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
.. frankly I think Gevorgyan looks borderline creepy, and the long ponytail doesn't help either. Teenagers who let their hair grow that long....
> > To compensate, I thought some of the men looked pretty silly, too. Also in their stage demeanor.

To be frank I've always preferred short hair in women - love that gamine look, especially with a beret on top. So I'm on board with "creepy" long hair. I also find playing with your eyes closed a bit... well, strange....

Quite a few of the men looked like insurance salesmen - dark suit, short hair and glasses. Refreshing. Now, about a good deal on my car......

Al Eisner

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Oct 6, 2021, 5:45:15 PM10/6/21
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I wouldn't risk it; for that sort of thing I just rely on others at rmcr :)

Actually, I'm not sure what "important" means in this context. Perhaps
important to the performers (especially the winners).
--
Al Eisner

Chris from Lafayette

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Oct 6, 2021, 5:49:29 PM10/6/21
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On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 2:22:46 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:

> I doubt if I will pay attention until they are down to at least the
> semi's.
>
> Al Eisner

In that case, you would miss some spectacular "crash and burns" like Anastasia Yasko in Op. 10 No. 2. And then, through tears, she still had to play her last piece, the Op. 39 Scherzo. Ms. CfL and I felt so sorry for her. As I mentioned on another site, I was tearing up myself as I read the kind and generous comments which people posted on her page of the competition site:

https://chopin2020.pl/en/competitors/159/anastasia-yasko

Andy Evans

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Oct 7, 2021, 4:57:44 AM10/7/21
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On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:43:04 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Gadjiev and Georgyan are interesting. I also liked, in no special order: Mun (for playing Op. 48/2 instead of 48/1), Ozel (sympathetic and solid), Sawada (genius, he also studies medicine), Sorita (one of a kind), Tuan (hidden power), Zenin (reminds me of Zak), Z. Wang (remarkable Op. 10/7), and Gonzalez (left hand). > Henk

I can see you've been following this quite closely. Listening to Sorita now - impressive pianism. He certainly has the power as well. I also enjoyed Yifan Hou and Yasuko Furumi. I haven't heard all the pianists on your list yet, though I agree with Mun and Ozel. The piano scene is getting very Asian, and why not?

Dan Koren

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:25:31 AM10/7/21
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Sarah Tuan

dk

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 8:49:53 AM10/7/21
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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 10:57:44 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:43:04 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Gadjiev and Georgyan are interesting. I also liked, in no special order: Mun (for playing Op. 48/2 instead of 48/1), Ozel (sympathetic and solid), Sawada (genius, he also studies medicine), Sorita (one of a kind), Tuan (hidden power), Zenin (reminds me of Zak), Z. Wang (remarkable Op. 10/7), and Gonzalez (left hand). > Henk
>
> I can see you've been following this quite closely. Listening to Sorita now - impressive pianism. He certainly has the power as well. I also enjoyed Yifan Hou and Yasuko Furumi. I haven't heard all the pianists on your list yet, though I agree with Mun and Ozel. The piano scene is getting very Asian, and why not?

Their quality is very high. I am particularly impressed by the ladies. They are very talented, and have, in general, a level of technique that seems unattainable for many westerners - and as a bonus, they all look beautiful (pace Herman).

Henk

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 8:51:32 AM10/7/21
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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 12:25:31 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> Sarah Tuan
>
> dk

Good to hear from you! Tuan is a surprise, yes.

Henk

Herman

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Oct 7, 2021, 9:12:09 AM10/7/21
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Yes Tuan's first round was good, although, again, it was a reminder that stage decorum has gone out the window, with her hair trailing all over.

I couldn't help but notice a competitor with a name right out of a Rushdie novel, Aristo Sham.

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 11:15:29 AM10/7/21
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Op woensdag 6 oktober 2021 om 16:43:04 UTC+2 schreef HT:
> Op woensdag 6 oktober 2021 om 13:52:40 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> > Yasuko Furumi had very nice touch today, morning of 6th. Alberto Ferro was alright too - a good sense of architecture. Alexander Gadjiev held my interest too, though he doesn't really have the pianism. Martin Garcia made the music dance. Not a bad day so far! But like many I was waiting for Eva Gevorgyan, simply because she's seriously good-looking. She looks quite the media personality but in front of the piano she seemed nervous. In fact you can see the fingers of the left hand shaking quite visibly on a number of pianists. More so than the right hand for some reason. Maybe Chris can offer an insight?
> >
> > Anyway - just listening to her first piece. Eva is mostly behaving herself and has a nice touch, but no fireworks so far. Etude 25/11 was nothing special. With hair as long as she has she could have a go at Melisande if she sings as well. I'm sorry, being a bit fanciful here but good Melisandes don't grow on trees. Her Scherzo #4 is going a lot better. Looks as if her nerves have settled a bit. Yes, she can certainly play, but not sure how far she'll progress.
> >
> > Quite a funny moment when one of the ushers had to stop her going back on stage for another bow!!! She's certainly media-aware.
> Agreed, Gadjiev and Georgyan are interesting. I also liked, in no special order: Mun (for playing Op. 48/2 instead of 48/1), Ozel (sympathetic and solid), Sawada (genius, he also studies medicine), Sorita (one of a kind), Tuan (hidden power), Zenin (reminds me of Zak), Z. Wang (remarkable Op. 10/7), and Gonzalez (left hand).
> Somehow, I have the feeling that the coming days will be even more interesting. I hope so, at least.
>

Notable are also Ch. Guo (for her Op. 10/5), Khozaynov (for his obsession with middle voices), S-Y. Kim (great Op. 39) and above all Kobayashi (who took her time before going on stage and once there made a scene about her piano stool). She's an excellent Chopin performer, btw.

Henk

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 3:31:55 PM10/7/21
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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 17:15:29 UTC+2 schreef HT:
The 87th candidate just played the last note of Stage 1 of the competition. 40 go to the next round.
Interesting were Bruce Liu (never boring) and Chao Wang (very slow or very loud, but not uninteresting). And there was Peng (who melted away during her recital but didn't budge).

Henk

Andy Evans

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Oct 7, 2021, 4:13:46 PM10/7/21
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On Thursday, 7 October 2021 at 20:31:55 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> The 87th candidate just played the last note of Stage 1 of the competition. 40 go to the next round.
> Interesting were Bruce Liu (never boring) and Chao Wang (very slow or very loud, but not uninteresting). And there was Peng (who melted away during her recital but didn't budge). > > Henk

Indeed, Bruce Liu is a possible prize winner. Quite a buzz around him. The online YT police loved him - the chat was full of heart emojis. I rather liked Julia Losowska as well, though she was more predictable. Chao Wang was playing a Yamaha, like a lot of the Asian pianists who played loud. It has a good tone when played loud and keeps more body and warmth than the Steinways. I don't know how much the choice of piano is based on touch. All the Yamahas I played had a stiffer action than the Steinways. I'm not a concert pianist at all - very far from it - but I do play the piano. Chao was a bit on the slow side for me, like quite a few of the pianists this year.

I'm missing Dan here - I hope he comes in on this thread.

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 4:53:49 PM10/7/21
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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 22:13:46 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
Seconded!

Henk

Chris from Lafayette

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Oct 7, 2021, 5:07:30 PM10/7/21
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OMG! Are you two KIDDING? YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS! Tuan was a complete nothing! (Not to say that she still might not make it to the next round though, political considerations between the US and Poland being what they are and Poland trying to be our bestest vassal state in Europe!)

Andy Evans

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:16:23 PM10/7/21
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I miss Yifan Hou here, but results are pretty much as expected.

Stage I results announced!

Mr Piotr Alexewicz, Poland
Ms Leonora Armellini, Italy
Mr J J Jun Li Bui, Canada
Ms Michelle Candotti, Italy
Mr Kai-Min Chang, Chinese Taipei
Mr Xuehong Chen, China
Mr Hyounglok Choi, South Korea
Mr Federico Gad Crema, Italy
Mr Alberto Ferro, Italy
Ms Yasuko Furumi, Japan
Mr Alexander Gadjiev, Italy/Slovenia
Mr Avery Gagliano, U.S.A.
Mr Martin Garcia Garcia, Spain
Ms Eva Gevorgyan, Russia/Armenia
Ms Wei-Ting Hsieh, Chinese Taipei
Mr Adam Kałduński, Poland
Mr Nikolay Khozyainov, Russia
Ms Su Yeon Kim, South Korea
Ms Aimi Kobayashi, Japan
Mr Mateusz Krzyżowski, Poland
Mr Jakub Kuszlik, Poland
Mr Shushi Kyomasu, Japan
Mr Hyuk Lee, South Korea
Mr Bruce (Xiaoyu) Liu, Canada
Mr Arsenii Mun, Russia
Mr Szymon Nehring, Poland
Mr Viet Trung Nguyen, Vietnam/Poland
Mr Georgijs Osokins, Latvia
Mr Evren Ozel, U.S.A.
Mr Kamil Pacholec, Poland
Mr Hao Rao, China
Mr Sohgo Sawada, Japan
Mr Aristo Sham, China, Hong Kong
Ms Miyu Shindo, Japan
Mr Talon Smith, U.S.A.
Mr Kyohei Sorita, Japan
Ms Szuyu Su, Chinese Taipei
Mr Hayato Sumino, Japan
Mr Yutong Sun, China
Mr Tomoharu Ushida, Japan
Mr Marcin Wieczorek, Poland
Mr Andrzej Wierciński, Poland
Mr Yuchong Wu, China
Mr Lingfei (Stephan) Xie, Canada/China
Mr Zi Xu, China

Al Eisner

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:20:35 PM10/7/21
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So how does one listen to any of these? Not at all obvious from the
competition web pages.
--
Al Eisner

Andy Evans

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:23:29 PM10/7/21
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On Thursday, 7 October 2021 at 23:20:35 UTC+1, Al Eisner wrote:
> So how does one listen to any of these? Not at all obvious from the competition web pages.
> -- > Al Eisner

It's all on YT, together with all the chat police giving a running commentary

HT

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:25:44 PM10/7/21
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Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 23:07:30 UTC+2 schreef Chris from Lafayette:
=====

<g> The jury is with you, Chris. Tuan isn't going to the next stage.

45 to the next stage. 9/45 is Polish (all male). 10/45 is female. 21/45 is Asian. Out of proportion, of course - but probably not according to the the jury (7/17 Polish, 12/17 male, 3/17 Asian).

1. 1. Mr Piotr Alexewicz, Poland 2. 2. Ms Leonora Armellini, Italy 3. 3. Mr J J Jun Li Bui, Canada 4. 4. Ms Michelle Candotti, Italy 5. 5. Mr Kai-Min Chang, Chinese Taipei 6. 6. Mr Xuehong Chen, China 7. 7. Mr Hyounglok Choi, South Korea 8. 8. Mr Federico Gad Crema, Italy 9. 9. Mr Alberto Ferro, Italy 10. 10. Ms Yasuko Furumi, Japan 11. 11. Mr Alexander Gadjiev, Italy/Slovenia 12. 12. Mr Avery Gagliano, U.S.A. 13. 13. Mr Martin Garcia Garcia, Spain 14. 14. Ms Eva Gevorgyan, Russia/Armenia 15. 15. Ms Wei-Ting Hsieh, Chinese Taipei 16. 16. Mr Adam Kałduński, Poland 17. 17. Mr Nikolay Khozyainov, Russia 18. 18. Ms Su Yeon Kim, South Korea 19. 19. Ms Aimi Kobayashi, Japan 20. 20. Mr Mateusz Krzyżowski, Poland 21. 21. Mr Jakub Kuszlik, Poland 22. 22. Mr Shushi Kyomasu, Japan 23. 23. Mr Hyuk Lee, South Korea 24. 24. Mr Bruce (Xiaoyu) Liu, Canada 25. 25. Mr Arsenii Mun, Russia 26. 26. Mr Szymon Nehring, Poland 27. 27. Mr Viet Trung Nguyen, Vietnam/Poland 28. 28. Mr Georgijs Osokins, Latvia 29. 29. Mr Evren Ozel, U.S.A. 30. 30. Mr Kamil Pacholec, Poland 31. 31. Mr Hao Rao, China 32. 32. Mr Sohgo Sawada, Japan 33. 33. Mr Aristo Sham, China, Hong Kong 34. 34. Ms Miyu Shindo, Japan 35. 35. Mr Talon Smith, U.S.A. 36. 36. Mr Kyohei Sorita, Japan 37. 37. Ms Szuyu Su, Chinese Taipei 38. 38. Mr Hayato Sumino, Japan 39. 39. Mr Yutong Sun, China 40. 40. Mr Tomoharu Ushida, Japan 41. 41. Mr Marcin Wieczorek, Poland 42. 42. Mr Andrzej Wierciński, Poland 43. 43. Mr Yuchong Wu, China 44. 44. Mr Lingfei (Stephan) Xie, Canada/China 45. 45. Mr Zi Xu, China

Henk

Al Eisner

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:32:47 PM10/7/21
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On Thu, 7 Oct 2021, Andy Evans wrote:

> On Thursday, 7 October 2021 at 23:20:35 UTC+1, Al Eisner wrote:
>> So how does one listen to any of these? Not at all obvious from the competition web pages.
>
> It's all on YT, together with all the chat police giving a running commentary

And I just found it is all under the Multimedia menu, "transmission";
if one clicks on "Stage 1" one can select the date. No commentary.
--
Al Eisner

Al Eisner

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Oct 7, 2021, 6:44:37 PM10/7/21
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And "other" under multimedia has lots of stuff: interview with
contestants; pre-compotition recitals include this by Nelson
Goerner (among other jurorss):
https://chopin2020.pl/en/multimedia/other/25/before-the-grand-competition
(Brahms 3rd sonata somehow snuck into this); videos from previous
Chopin competitions; etc.
--
Al Eisner
Message has been deleted

Dan Koren

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Oct 7, 2021, 8:06:58 PM10/7/21
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The competition is as rigged and the jury
is as deaf and corrupt as ever, ranking
mechanical competence above musical
intelligence and expression. The only
competitor that made music from the
first to the last note was Sarah Tuan.
This is deja vu -- Tiffany Poon was
also denied promotion to the 2nd
stage in a prior competition.

Dan Koren

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Oct 7, 2021, 8:29:10 PM10/7/21
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Note some of the gender pronouns are wrong.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 6:16:23 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:

Herman

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Oct 7, 2021, 8:56:38 PM10/7/21
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On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 2:06:58 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> The competition is as rigged and the jury
> is as deaf and corrupt as ever, ranking
> mechanical competence above musical
> intelligence and expression. The only
> competitor that made music from the
> first to the last note was Sarah Tuan.
>
Unlike you, the jury does not give points for long hair.

The phrase "the X was rigged" has fallen into disgrace since Trump.

Bruce Liu is the one who made music from first to last note, and, absent gaffes, will be among the top winners.

Dan Koren

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Oct 7, 2021, 9:25:12 PM10/7/21
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On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:56:38 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
>
> Bruce Liu is the one who made music
> from first to last note, and, absent gaffes,
> will be among the top winners.

Perhaps. Very ugly and harsh tone.
Sounds driven, does not make the
music sound natural and improvised.

In my book this adds up to zero.

dk

Chris from Lafayette

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Oct 7, 2021, 9:40:20 PM10/7/21
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On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:25:44 PM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 23:07:30 UTC+2 schreef Chris from Lafayette:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 5:51:32 AM UTC-7, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > > Op donderdag 7 oktober 2021 om 12:25:31 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> > > > Sarah Tuan
> > > >
> > > > dk
> > >
> > > Good to hear from you! Tuan is a surprise, yes.
> > >
> > > Henk
> > OMG! Are you two KIDDING? YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS! Tuan was a complete nothing! (Not to say that she still might not make it to the next round though, political considerations between the US and Poland being what they are and Poland trying to be our bestest vassal state in Europe!)
> =====
>
> <g> The jury is with you, Chris. Tuan isn't going to the next stage.
>
>
> 1. 1. Mr Piotr Alexewicz, Poland 2. 2. Ms Leonora Armellini, Italy 3. 3. Mr J J Jun Li Bui, Canada 4. 4. Ms Michelle Candotti, Italy 5. 5. Mr Kai-Min Chang, Chinese Taipei 6. 6. Mr Xuehong Chen, China 7. 7. Mr Hyounglok Choi, South Korea 8. 8. Mr Federico Gad Crema, Italy 9. 9. Mr Alberto Ferro, Italy 10. 10. Ms Yasuko Furumi, Japan 11. 11. Mr Alexander Gadjiev, Italy/Slovenia 12. 12. Mr Avery Gagliano, U.S.A. 13. 13. Mr Martin Garcia Garcia, Spain 14. 14. Ms Eva Gevorgyan, Russia/Armenia 15. 15. Ms Wei-Ting Hsieh, Chinese Taipei 16. 16. Mr Adam Kałduński, Poland 17. 17. Mr Nikolay Khozyainov, Russia 18. 18. Ms Su Yeon Kim, South Korea 19. 19. Ms Aimi Kobayashi, Japan 20. 20. Mr Mateusz Krzyżowski, Poland 21. 21. Mr Jakub Kuszlik, Poland 22. 22. Mr Shushi Kyomasu, Japan 23. 23. Mr Hyuk Lee, South Korea 24. 24. Mr Bruce (Xiaoyu) Liu, Canada 25. 25. Mr Arsenii Mun, Russia 26. 26. Mr Szymon Nehring, Poland 27. 27. Mr Viet Trung Nguyen, Vietnam/Poland 28. 28. Mr Georgijs Osokins, Latvia 29. 29. Mr Evren Ozel, U.S.A. 30. 30. Mr Kamil Pacholec, Poland 31. 31. Mr Hao Rao, China 32. 32. Mr Sohgo Sawada, Japan 33. 33. Mr Aristo Sham, China, Hong Kong 34. 34. Ms Miyu Shindo, Japan 35. 35. Mr Talon Smith, U.S.A. 36. 36. Mr Kyohei Sorita, Japan 37. 37. Ms Szuyu Su, Chinese Taipei 38. 38. Mr Hayato Sumino, Japan 39. 39. Mr Yutong Sun, China 40. 40. Mr Tomoharu Ushida, Japan 41. 41. Mr Marcin Wieczorek, Poland 42. 42. Mr Andrzej Wierciński, Poland 43. 43. Mr Yuchong Wu, China 44. 44. Mr Lingfei (Stephan) Xie, Canada/China 45. 45. Mr Zi Xu, China
>
> Henk

Henk - I was about to lord it over you and Dan, but I'll refrain! ;-)

Ms. CfL and I did our best to listen to whomever we could, but we've not heard most of the pianists now in the second stage. Of the ones we did hear, I did liked JJ June Li Bui, Hyonglok Choi (Mr. gender-fluid), Eva Gevorgyan (extra points for babeliociousness!), Avery Gagliano (simple, direct, elegant understated - a refreshing change from most of the rest we heard), Arsenii Mun (razzle-dazzle). I hope we're able to hear a bigger proportion in the next round.

Herman

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Oct 8, 2021, 2:55:03 AM10/8/21
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wow, the chubby Crema guy made it to the next round?

JohnGavin

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Oct 8, 2021, 5:59:35 AM10/8/21
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Do we really know what the judges go by in total? Are they only judging by what they hear in the moment, or are they gauging their choices with a sense of who can sustain a concert career? I’m fairly sure that each contestant submits a list of their overall repertoire which the judges all see. This is one indicator of how equipped each contestant is.

I haven’t watch this year‘s competition but I followed the last one and felt that Seong-Jin Cho seemed like the most equipped to sustain a concert career. If extreme sensitivity had been the criteria for winning, the prize would have gone to Kate Liu. Interestingly, Martha Argerich gave her pretty low grades, but she did come in second if my memory is correct.

I’m sure that the sponsors of any music competition would want their first place winners to be huge successes. It would stand to reason that this would increase the prestige of the competition.

Herman

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Oct 8, 2021, 6:10:34 AM10/8/21
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Generally there is no telling how a performer will do in the future.

I'm also wondering whether something like stage presentation is a factor.

Like I said: Tuan's playing was good, but do people want to look at someone who looks pretty unkempt?

of course, some men get a kick out of that waif stuff, but the jury maybe not so much...

barny02

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Oct 8, 2021, 6:41:33 AM10/8/21
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On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 3:40:20 AM UTC+2, Chris from Lafayette wrote:
Was a bit disappointed that Shunshun Tie didn't make it to round 2. After his technically perfect Ballade op.23 I really did like to hear more of him.

Andy Evans

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Oct 8, 2021, 7:20:01 AM10/8/21
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If it's anything like the Leeds it will go largely on pianism - exceptionally even tone, totally note perfect, fast passages exactly in time. All the technical stuff.

So the losers may be those with better interpretive skills - more architectural feel, more sensitivity to nuance, just more basic musicality. There were many great pianists with less than perfect techniques - Cortot just for starters. Some declined with age, some were never totally note perfect. But they gave us something a lot more valuable.

I've spoken to a few pianists who did competitions. They all said they were rigged to some extent. For instance, many of the jury are teachers and it's not unheard of to do deals between them in the earlier rounds.

Herman

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Oct 8, 2021, 7:38:12 AM10/8/21
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On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 1:20:01 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> If it's anything like the Leeds it will go largely on pianism - exceptionally even tone, totally note perfect, fast passages exactly in time. All the technical stuff.
>
> So the losers may be those with better interpretive skills - more architectural feel, more sensitivity to nuance, just more basic musicality. There were many great pianists with less than perfect techniques - Cortot just for starters. Some declined with age, some were never totally note perfect. But they gave us something a lot more valuable.
>
This is a cliché that keeps turning up, as I couldn't help but notice in the fast-moving comments next to the livestream. First, whenever a woman appeared, guys started commenting on her attractiveness. It's automatic. (I'm no stranger to those thoughts, but expressing them in a public place is perhaps not necessary, especially since our current priority is spotting the spread of Jacinta Lookalikes.) The other irrepressible thing seems to be that technique and interpretation are mutually exclusive. So, as soon as missed notes became too many to be ignored, commenters started talking about artistry and expressiveness, as if it's impossible to be expressive and not skip entire bars in memory lapses.



HT

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Oct 8, 2021, 8:42:57 AM10/8/21
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Op vrijdag 8 oktober 2021 om 13:20:01 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
> If it's anything like the Leeds it will go largely on pianism - exceptionally even tone, totally note perfect, fast passages exactly in time. All the technical stuff.
>
> So the losers may be those with better interpretive skills - more architectural feel, more sensitivity to nuance, just more basic musicality. There were many great pianists with less than perfect techniques - Cortot just for starters. Some declined with age, some were never totally note perfect. But they gave us something a lot more valuable.
>
> I've spoken to a few pianists who did competitions. They all said they were rigged to some extent. For instance, many of the jury are teachers and it's not unheard of to do deals between them in the earlier rounds.

Israela Margalit on competitions:

"The first jury I served on, I was determined that only the best would win. I suggested to my fellow jurors that we select somebody who could shine in Carnegie Hall rather than play like a well-schooled student. Everybody agreed. We all ranked each pianist and tabulated the results not once, but twice. The pianist who got the most points won. Nevertheless the outcome was disheartening."

https://medium.com/@m.israela/about-winning-and-losing-competition-rejection-and-heartbreak-1469356a6618

In this Chopin competition, 9/45 candidates who made it to the second round are Polish and 3/45 others studied in Poland or have a Polish teacher. That cannot be just a matter of talent, as it cannot be just a matter of talent that 35/45 are male.

Henk

HT

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Oct 8, 2021, 8:55:07 AM10/8/21
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Op vrijdag 8 oktober 2021 om 12:10:34 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
If Tuan did not make it to the second round because of her looks, it only confirms my impression that this jury is not (yet) talent-oriented.

Henk

Andy Evans

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Oct 8, 2021, 9:15:01 AM10/8/21
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On Friday, 8 October 2021 at 13:42:57 UTC+1, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> In this Chopin competition, 9/45 candidates who made it to the second round are Polish and 3/45 others studied in Poland or have a Polish teacher. That cannot be just a matter of talent, as it cannot be just a matter of talent that 35/45 are male.
> > Henk

I certainly know of pianists who start taking lessons with jury members before important competitions. It goes under the radar but it's there.

Herman

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Oct 8, 2021, 10:48:00 AM10/8/21
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I was just presenting a hypothesis. And it was not about "looks" but about "stage presentation".

I have no inside info.

I would not have been able to predict that Yuja Wang would be a star performer; I would have guessed people would not want to see what she had on offer.

HT

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Oct 8, 2021, 12:05:24 PM10/8/21
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Op vrijdag 8 oktober 2021 om 16:48:00 UTC+2 schreef Herman:
<g> Not even a hypothesis, you just asked a question. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that it was about "wanting to look at someone who looks ...".
"IF" this question were answered in the affirmative, then etc.

Predicting a solo career is very difficult, if we may believe Israela Margalit.

Did YW make a furore in Verbier because people wanted to "see what she had to offer"?

Acribia, I know and apologise for it.

Henk

JohnGavin

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Oct 8, 2021, 12:19:05 PM10/8/21
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"On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:56:38 PM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
I’ve now watched several of the contestants and completely agree that Bruce Liu is a standout. The only thing I can say to Dan is that the Fazioli has always had a somewhat leaner tone than the typical Steinway, but through my speakers his tone was not harsh at all.

JohnGavin

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Oct 8, 2021, 12:38:40 PM10/8/21