Alex Ross CD Reviews

[Ricardo Jimenez]

AR is my favorite music critic. I've read (actually listened to) all
his books. He seems to know a heck of a lot more about music than DH.
In the latest New Yorker:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/31/chopins-nocturnes-are-arias-for-the-piano
he compares 3 recent versions of Chopin's noctures, Lisiecki, Planés
and Hough, he gives the honors to Hough for bringing out the
connection with bel canto.

There is also a favorable review of two recent discs by the Basque
National Orchestra under Robert Trevino. One is a Ravel disc (La
Valse, Bolero etc) and the other is an American selection (Löffler,
Ruggles, Hanson, Cowell). Both are on Spotify.

[AB]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 1:01:07 PM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> AR is my favorite music critic. I've read (actually listened to) all
> his books. He seems to know a heck of a lot more about music than DH.
> In the latest New Yorker:
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/31/chopins-nocturnes-are-arias-for-the-piano
> he compares 3 recent versions of Chopin's noctures, Lisiecki, Planés
> and Hough, he gives the honors to Hough for bringing out the
> connection with bel canto.
>

bell canto- nonsense


AB

[Chris from Lafayette]

Alex Ross deals in poesy and pseudo-expertise, rather than in actual knowledge. I don't think he can hold a candle to Dave when it comes to actual understanding of most aspects of music. And goodness knows, I hardly agree with Dave all the time - but I certainly respect him a lot more than I do Alex Ross.

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:37:28 -0800 (PST), AB <arriba...@gmail.com>
wrote:

For those who can't access the article, here is part of Ross'
argument:

In a program note for his recording, Hough remarks that the Nocturnes
are a “corpus of some of the finest operatic arias ever written.” The
observation is hardly novel; Chopin’s love of bel-canto opera has been
noted innumerable times. Yet I’m not sure if any pianist on record has
fleshed out the link as thoroughly and as persuasively as Hough has.
Another telling instance comes at the beginning of the set, in the
B-flat-minor Nocturne. That piece opens with a decorous six-note
gesture, which leads into an initial thematic statement. In the third
bar, the gesture returns, but in a heavily elaborated guise—a flourish
of eleven notes in the same span of time, followed by a gossamer
shimmer of twenty-two notes. Chopin here imitates the operatic custom
of ornamenting an aria during the repeats. With a steady tempo
established at the start, Hough gives the feeling of a singer
pirouetting above her accompaniment and then falling back into synch
with it. Plančs and Lisiecki suffer by comparison; their upper lines
come across as labored, and the underlying pulse is faint.

[Néstor Castiglione]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 10:01:07 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:

I wonder if he's heard Earl Wild's cycle of the Nocturnes? That's the only one I've heard (Hough included) that brings out the Belliniesque bel canto in that music. Hough is nice, but more in the Rubinstein tradition: noble tone, relaxed (but never dragging) tempi, and pearlescent tone.

Robert Treviño's Americascapes disc is a knockout. Worth buying (or streaming) for the remarkable Cowell Variations alone.

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 10:47:56 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:

> For those who can't access the article, here is part of Ross'
> argument:
>

> . . . Hough gives the feeling of a singer

> pirouetting above her accompaniment and then falling back into synch

> with it. . .

As I was saying. . .

BTW, the only singer I know of who does pirouettes is Aida Garifullina in the recent video release of Rimsky-Korsakov's opera, "Sadko".

And further BTW, Hurwitz's 10/10 review of the Bacon/Sowerby album by the Lincoln Trio (one of my best of the year albums from 2021!) shows his bona fides!

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/the-lincoln-trios-outstanding-sowerby-and-bacon-in-cedille/

[Ricardo Jimenez]

Thanks for the recommendation. I just started to listen to the Wild
set on Spotify. Since it is on Hyperion, you have to buy the Hough.
It is currently out of stock at Broinc.

[Néstor Castiglione]

Hope you like it! Wild is rather more fleet than typically heard in these works, as if he's being mindful of a singer's breathing. The way his right hands phrases the melodies, with their subtle rises and falls in volume, again reinforces that vocal quality.

I have the Hough. Was a day of release purchase for me. It's nice; actually, quite lovely. But, at least to me, I don't find too much else going on interpretively aside from beautiful tone. My choices are Wild, Moravec, Štěpán, Planès, and Weissenberg.

[mINE109]

The Alborado is even more guitar-like than usual.

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:45:21 -0800 (PST), Chris from Lafayette
<CSal...@operamail.com> wrote:

>Alex Ross deals in poesy and pseudo-expertise, rather than in actual knowledge. I don't think he can hold a candle to Dave when it comes to actual understanding of most aspects of music. And goodness knows, I hardly agree with Dave all the time - but I certainly respect him a lot more than I do Alex Ross.

For me, Hurwitz rarely explains his comments. I just usually just
hear that a recording is crap or it's great. As far as what other
people think or them, this is what I find on the NewYorker website
about Ross:
"He is the recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship, a Guggenheim
Fellowship, and an Arts and Letters Award from the American Academy of
Arts and Letters". What awards has Hurwitz won for his rantings?
Youtube likes?

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:37:52 -0800 (PST), Néstor Castiglione
<castiglio...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hope you like it! Wild is rather more fleet than typically heard in these works, as if he's being mindful of a singer's breathing. The way his right hands phrases the melodies, with their subtle rises and falls in volume, again reinforces that vocal quality.
>

>I have the Hough. Was a day of release purchase for me. It's nice; actually, quite lovely. But, at least to me, I don't find too much else going on interpretively aside from beautiful tone. My choices are Wild, Moravec, Št?pán, Planès, and Weissenberg.

Yes, I think Wild is great. I own only the Rubinstein and Pires sets
and prefer the Rubinstein. Do you know how Wild chose the order he
plays them? Obviously, it isn't by opus number.

[Néstor Castiglione]

To be fair, awards are often not an indicator of worth. Mark Swed, for example, has somehow won a couple of Pulitzers. Either it was slow year for music journalism in those years or he won for excellence in blandness and vapidity. Lots of other examples in music journalism abound.

Chris has good points about Alex Ross. To that I'd add that Ross' grasp of facts is often loose or simply deficient. Sometimes I get the impression of opportunism in his work, of his exploiting some issue or other for the sake of self-promotion. A lot of his writing seems, ultimately, more about Ross than whatever musical subject he's writing about. That was the impression I had when reading The Rest is Noise years ago. Maybe I'm being unfair.

[Néstor Castiglione]

I don't recall. His brief reflection on the Nocturnes mentions his admiration of Hoffman, Rachmaninoff, et al. Perhaps Wild's idiosyncratic ordering was meant to evoke the spirit of a free-roaming salon recital from Romantic pianism's "golden age."

[gggg gggg]

Did you see what he did towards the end of his recent video upload "Music Chat: Period Performance Practice Is Killing The Classics"?

As far as I am concerned, what can you expect from a person who made disparaging remarks about the Wesendonck Lieder when he reviewed Marilyn Horne's cd.

I still haven't forgiven him for THAT etiher.

[dllerr]

Alex Ross has once again mistaken a sea of artificial reverb for fine cantabile playing. He used to do the same for those mediocre ECM piano recordings. He has no clue.

[martin]

I don't think one has to choose--someone once said critics are like barbers -- you find one who naturally cuts your hair the way you like. I go to DH's website for the discussions of specific recordings, his books for discussions of structure of certain works. I read AR's concert reviews for discussions of live performance (confess I agree with more often than the previous New Yorker critics (haircuts again, not value judgement) and his books for a longer view of musical context. AR's ear also seems very fine -- in DH's parlance he may be considered "a chord guy" -- since he so often seems to be able to parse the harmonic textures, particularly in live performance. He's also more catholic in his tastes and often comparisons with music outside the classical realm. Personally I like them both for different reasons. But de gustibus...

[gggg gggg]

Also, doesn't what Hurwitz said in that recent Y. upload contradict this Wikipedia article on Furtwangler?:

- ...The critic David Hurwitz, a spokesman for modern literalism and precision, sharply criticizes what he terms "the Furtwängler wackos" who "will forgive him virtually any lapse, no matter how severe", and characterizes the conductor himself as "occasionally incandescent but criminally sloppy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Furtw%C3%A4ngler#Conducting_style

[HT]

Op dinsdag 25 januari 2022 om 15:05:16 UTC+1 schreef martin:

Ross has an interesting blog. He's easy to read, a good reason to visit it more often.

Henk

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:45:49 PM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:

> Did you see what he did towards the end of his recent video upload "Music Chat: Period Performance Practice Is Killing The Classics"?
>
> As far as I am concerned, what can you expect from a person who made disparaging remarks about the Wesendonck Lieder when he reviewed Marilyn Horne's cd.
>
> I still haven't forgiven him for THAT etiher.

Can my eyes be deceiving me? A post from gggg gggg which is not merely a link to some other site? Will wonders never cease? ;-)

It is true that Dave sometimes tries to be outrageous just for the sake of it. (Or so it seems to me! LOL!)

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 3:32:55 PM UTC-8, Chris from Lafayette wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:45:49 PM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> > Did you see what he did towards the end of his recent video upload "Music Chat: Period Performance Practice Is Killing The Classics"?
> >
> > As far as I am concerned, what can you expect from a person who made disparaging remarks about the Wesendonck Lieder when he reviewed Marilyn Horne's cd.
> >
> > I still haven't forgiven him for THAT etiher.
> Can my eyes be deceiving me? A post from gggg gggg which is not merely a link to some other site? Will wonders never cease? ;-)

- I like to believe that there are always possibilities.

Mr. Spock

[David Hurwitz]

Greetings folks. For what it's worth, I think Alex is a brilliant critic and writer, and as Martin suggests above, the whole idea is to find someone whose views you find helpful and stimulating. Of course, everyone will have their own personal feelings about that. I find Alex enormously worthwhile, especially as he has lots of knowledge that I don't, and he talks about subjects that I find fascinating, writing in an elegant and informed way that's very different from my own method. Like him or not, give him credit for his erudition, work ethic, and genuine effort to reach out, educate and inform.
All the best for 2022. I just posted my 1000th video on YouTube. The "pandemic project" continues...
Dave

[M&S Frost]

Dave is what we'd call a mensch.

MIFrost

[gggg gggg]

I hope I wasn't coming across as if I was favoring Ross over Hurwitz.

Although I haven't read Ross' book on Wagner word for word from beginning to end, the excerpts and reviews I've come across give the impression that Wagner simply steamrolled the anti-Wagnerites into irrelevance and obscurity.

I mean.............can I be the only one who remembers.............Brahms?

[HT]

Op woensdag 26 januari 2022 om 20:46:57 UTC+1 schreef gggg gggg:

Brahms must be relevant and famous if you know him ...

Henk

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:46:55 -0800 (PST), gggg gggg
<gggg...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Although I haven't read Ross' book on Wagner word for word from beginning to end, the excerpts and reviews I've come across give the impression that Wagner simply steamrolled the anti-Wagnerites into irrelevance and obscurity.

The book is about Wagnerism, not Wagner himself. It is a review of
Wagner's influence in music, other arts including cinema and politics.

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:08:13 PM UTC-8, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:45:21 -0800 (PST), Chris from Lafayette
> > <CSal...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Alex Ross deals in poesy and pseudo-expertise, rather than in actual knowledge. I don't think he can hold a candle to Dave when it comes to actual understanding of most aspects of music. And goodness knows, I hardly agree with Dave all the time - but I certainly respect him a lot more than I do Alex Ross.

[Ricardo - I skipped your reply - I apologize!]

> To be fair, awards are often not an indicator of worth. Mark Swed, for example, has somehow won a couple of Pulitzers. Either it was slow year for music journalism in those years or he won for excellence in blandness and vapidity. Lots of other examples in music journalism abound.
>
> Chris has good points about Alex Ross. To that I'd add that Ross' grasp of facts is often loose or simply deficient. Sometimes I get the impression of opportunism in his work, of his exploiting some issue or other for the sake of self-promotion. A lot of his writing seems, ultimately, more about Ross than whatever musical subject he's writing about. That was the impression I had when reading The Rest is Noise years ago. Maybe I'm being unfair.

Thanks, Nestor! I tried to reply yesterday, but my post got lost in a block hole along "the great information superhighway" (which, as we all know, is a series of tubes!).

What I wanted to say was that many of these high-profile awards are presented to people who travel in the same social circles and went to the same schools as the people who vote on those same awards. IOW, it's like the "IN" clique of high school students presenting class awards. From his latest reply in this thread, it looks like Dave may want to be a part of that clique! (Just kidding, Dave!)

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:37:54 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
>
> I have the Hough. Was a day of release
> purchase for me. It's nice; actually, quite
> lovely. But, at least to me, I don't find too
> much else going on interpretively aside
> from beautiful tone. My choices are Wild,
> Moravec, Štěpán, Planès, and Weissenberg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNqX_jWhUzY

dk

[Dan Koren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvoI1nl-MmM

dk

[Dan Koren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAaq7OdZ_B0

[Dan Koren]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVEZpCroqch2AnSFHQjVVl705_68m8ym8

dk

[Néstor Castiglione]

Oh! Thanks for the link, Dan. Had no idea she recorded a set of the Nocturnes. A wonderful artist who deserves far wider renown.

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 2:48:16 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 11:42:11 AM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:58:15 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:55:38 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 4:52:05 AM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 2:37:54 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the Hough. Was a day of release
> > > > > > purchase for me. It's nice; actually, quite
> > > > > > lovely. But, at least to me, I don't find too
> > > > > > much else going on interpretively aside
> > > > > > from beautiful tone. My choices are Wild,
> > > > > > Moravec, Štěpán, Planès, and Weissenberg.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNqX_jWhUzY
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvoI1nl-MmM
> > > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAaq7OdZ_B0
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVEZpCroqch2AnSFHQjVVl705_68m8ym8
>

> Oh! Thanks for the link, Dan. Had no idea she recorded a
> set of the Nocturnes. A wonderful artist who deserves far
> wider renown.

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Diary-Complete-Nocturnes/dp/B01LXE41EY

dk

[Dan Koren]

Any opinions yet? Thx.

dk

[Néstor Castiglione]

I haven't heard the entire set yet as I'm waiting for the arrival of the CDs to give it a good, thorough listen. But I played her recording of the C-sharp minor, Op. 27, no. 1, which is my go-to "test piece" to hear whether the rest of a performer's Nocturnes cycle is worth hearing. Immediately I was hooked by the subtly variated colors her left hand produced, as well as her liquid sense of melodic phrasing and impeccable dynamic control. She builds the climax not by stooping to the percussive clatter of her inferiors, but almost as if billowing air into her instrument, brocaded by the lightness of touch she brings out the mazurka-like figurations which unspool afterwards.

Needless to say, I'm very eager to hear the rest of this set. From what I've heard so far, Huangci will earn a spot in my persona pantheon.

[Frank Berger]

FWIW, from a Guardian reviewer:

"Huangci has a lovely, warm sound and in some pieces, like the F sharp major, integrates all the incredible filigree to beautiful effect. But she overdoes some effects, like the pauses in the D flat major; there is not enough variety in the textures to make this a top recommendation."

Thoughts?

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 20:47:44 -0800 (PST), Néstor Castiglione
<castiglio...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I haven't heard the entire set yet as I'm waiting for the arrival of the CDs to give it a good, thorough listen. But I played her recording of the C-sharp minor, Op. 27, no. 1, which is my go-to "test piece" to hear whether the rest of a performer's Nocturnes cycle is worth hearing. Immediately I was hooked by the subtly variated colors her left hand produced, as well as her liquid sense of melodic phrasing and impeccable dynamic control. She builds the climax not by stooping to the percussive clatter of her inferiors, but almost as if billowing air into her instrument, brocaded by the lightness of touch she brings out the mazurka-like figurations which unspool afterwards.
>
>Needless to say, I'm very eager to hear the rest of this set. From what I've heard so far, Huangci will earn a spot in my persona pantheon.

Huangci's set is on Spotify. It is five years old but I don't
remember it coming up in this forum before now. I have heard many
sets of the nocturnes and my favorite still is the Rubinstein.

[Néstor Castiglione]

Wouldn't be the first time The Guardian got it wrong.

[Néstor Castiglione]

Which Rubinstein set? His last cycle of the Nocturnes is lovely and has a serenity and sureness of touch missing in his earlier recordings. I love his playing generally speaking, but feel that he was a poor fit in Chopin. He sounds so self-conscious and uptight.

I was heartened to find that the late Allan Evans agreed with me on this; we had a long Facebook conversation about our mutual dislike of Rubinstein's Chopin.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 11:35:21 AM UTC-8, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
>
> Which Rubinstein set? His last cycle of the
> Nocturnes is lovely and has a serenity and
> sureness of touch missing in his earlier
> recordings. I love his playing generally
> speaking, but feel that he was a poor fit in
> Chopin. He sounds so self-conscious and
> uptight.

I always felt Rubinstein's Chopin was rather
mainstream and not particularly idiomatic.
IMHO his best composer was Brahms.

dk

[Ricardo Jimenez]

The set I have was recorded in Rome in 1965 and later digitally
remastered. I find it has a distinctive Rubinstein sound. I also own
the Pires set but rarely listen to it. It and all the sets I've heard
on Spotify are very well played but all sound the same. Listening to
all the nocturnes one after another can get quite tedious. The
preludes and etudes have much more variety.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 5:08:02 PM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>
> The set I have was recorded in Rome in
> 1965 and later digitally remastered. I find
> it has a distinctive Rubinstein sound. I also
> own the Pires set but rarely listen to it.

De pire en pire.

> It and all the sets I've heard on Spotify are
> very well played but all sound the same.
> Listening to all the nocturnes one after
> another can get quite tedious. The preludes
> and etudes have much more variety.

Then try Fiorentino for some excitement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvoI1nl-MmM

dk

[gggg gggg]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 1:45:49 PM UTC-10, gggg gggg wrote:

> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:44:45 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:45:21 -0800 (PST), Chris from Lafayette
> > <CSal...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Alex Ross deals in poesy and pseudo-expertise, rather than in actual knowledge. I don't think he can hold a candle to Dave when it comes to actual understanding of most aspects of music. And goodness knows, I hardly agree with Dave all the time - but I certainly respect him a lot more than I do Alex Ross.

> > For me, Hurwitz rarely explains his comments. I just usually just
> > hear that a recording is crap or it's great. As far as what other
> > people think or them, this is what I find on the NewYorker website
> > about Ross:
> > "He is the recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship, a Guggenheim
> > Fellowship, and an Arts and Letters Award from the American Academy of
> > Arts and Letters". What awards has Hurwitz won for his rantings?
> > Youtube likes?
> Did you see what he did towards the end of his recent video upload "Music Chat: Period Performance Practice Is Killing The Classics"?
>
> As far as I am concerned, what can you expect from a person who made disparaging remarks about the Wesendonck Lieder when he reviewed Marilyn Horne's cd.
>
> I still haven't forgiven him for THAT etiher.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vivien+leigh+foregiveable+gif&tbm=isch&sxsrf=APq-WBsHMAgifHMcL8s7dYfqckrj4-8EsA%3A1646295421663&source=hp&biw=1093&bih=526&ei=fXkgYsLEH5nIkPIPhaik-Ao&iflsig=AHkkrS4AAAAAYiCHjQKNL0ckphxkHJiYkKIaFcdk1IMA&ved=0ahUKEwiC962uwKn2AhUZJEQIHQUUCa8Q4dUDCAY&uact=5&oq=vivien+leigh+foregiveable+gif&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ7wMQJzoICAAQgAQQsQM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCABDoECAAQAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6BggAEAgQHlAAWOJtYPRuaAFwAHgAgAHkAYgByh2SAQY3LjIyLjGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZw&sclient=img#imgrc=_qf7DIoK0JdeNM

[gggg gggg]

On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:45:49 PM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:44:45 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:45:21 -0800 (PST), Chris from Lafayette
> > <CSal...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Alex Ross deals in poesy and pseudo-expertise, rather than in actual knowledge. I don't think he can hold a candle to Dave when it comes to actual understanding of most aspects of music. And goodness knows, I hardly agree with Dave all the time - but I certainly respect him a lot more than I do Alex Ross.
> > For me, Hurwitz rarely explains his comments. I just usually just
> > hear that a recording is crap or it's great. As far as what other
> > people think or them, this is what I find on the NewYorker website
> > about Ross:
> > "He is the recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship, a Guggenheim
> > Fellowship, and an Arts and Letters Award from the American Academy of
> > Arts and Letters". What awards has Hurwitz won for his rantings?
> > Youtube likes?
> Did you see what he did towards the end of his recent video upload "Music Chat: Period Performance Practice Is Killing The Classics"?
>
> As far as I am concerned, what can you expect from a person who made disparaging remarks about the Wesendonck Lieder when he reviewed Marilyn Horne's cd.
>
> I still haven't forgiven him for THAT etiher.

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/humanities.music.composers.wagner/c/HluM8V9am8k