Download: François Ruhlmann recordings from a "Secret Santa"...or two!
Bill Anderson
by François Ruhlmann, the long time house conductor for Pathé. Both
posts initiated discussions regarding this musician and his recorded
legacy.
About the same time, someone questioned the rationale of offering
public downloads of historic, out-of-print( and out of copyright)
items that are extremely hard to find. In my response to that post, I
mentioned that offering files to downloaders opens up the
possibilities of collaboration and cooperation of many collectors and
enthusiasts to participate in a combined project.
Well, here is a fine example of what can happen in these situations.
An active collector, and a colleague of his who is an expert regarding
acoustic discs, sent me an important recording done by Pathé from the
early years of the last century. The collector suggested that I offer
these files as a download to others. These particular individuals
would prefer to remain anonymous. So...
Here is a complete recording of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, recorded
acoustically by Pathé conducted by Monsieur Ruhlmann. The actual
recording date is unclear. Claude Arnold's book puts the date as 1916,
however, the collectors offering the file suggest Arnold’s book maybe
the date of a reprinting or re-recording(*). The files offered here
may have been done as early as 1912. If the date is correct that would
make this the second recording of the work, after the F. Kark/Odeon of
1911 and before the Nikisch/ BPO of 1913.
Regardless of the exact date, this is a fascinating and important set
of records. In addition to the historical context, the Ruhlmann
reading has many insights and performance qualities. I think many
here will find these records of extreme interest. The transfer and
editing of these discs, also done by our anonymous friend, are
extremely good.
Zipped files are available in both the mp3 format (256 kbps) and
lossless FLAC. Both zip files have a jpg of the first record’s etched
Pathé label.
Mp3 format:
http://www.mediafire.com/?aklwvfbp6cevl4a
FLAC format:
http://www.mediafire.com/?u741heuaiz6wmlf
I would like to thank these two gentlemen for their generosity.
Happy holidays everyone – for collectors of historic orchestral
recordings, Christmas came a bit early this year!!
- Bill A.
(*) from an e-mail message exchange this month…
“Possibly of interest that the Claude Arnold book gives issue nos.
6028-29, 6398, 6030, 6216 for this...the copy my friend owns was
issued as nos. 5020-5024. The 10th side in his is a quartet movement,
totally unrelated, as opposed to the Arnold movement from Ruhlmann’s
Symph. no. 2.
So either there was an appreciably earlier Ruhlmann acoustic 5th than
Mr. Arnold indicates, as well as the one he notates, or the later
issue nos. he saw were merely a re-dub of the earlier. In any event,
these etched label Pathé’s would not have been as late as the dates he
indicates. My friend moots ca 1912, and his collection of acousticals
is quite vast, so he might be right.”
Kip Williams
...
> Here is a complete recording of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, recorded
> acoustically by Pathé conducted by Monsieur Ruhlmann. The actual
> recording date is unclear. Claude Arnold's book puts the date as 1916,
> however, the collectors offering the file suggest Arnold’s book maybe
> the date of a reprinting or re-recording(*). The files offered here
> may have been done as early as 1912. If the date is correct that would
> make this the second recording of the work, after the F. Kark/Odeon of
> 1911 and before the Nikisch/ BPO of 1913.
> Mp3 format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?aklwvfbp6cevl4a
>
> FLAC format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?u741heuaiz6wmlf
>
> I would like to thank these two gentlemen for their generosity.
Me too, and you as well. Thanks, and many happy returns of the season!
Kip W
Kip Williams
...
> Here is a complete recording of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, recorded
> acoustically by Pathé conducted by Monsieur Ruhlmann. The actual
> recording date is unclear. Claude Arnold's book puts the date as 1916,
> however, the collectors offering the file suggest Arnold’s book maybe
> the date of a reprinting or re-recording(*). The files offered here
> may have been done as early as 1912. If the date is correct that would
> make this the second recording of the work, after the F. Kark/Odeon of
> 1911 and before the Nikisch/ BPO of 1913.
> Mp3 format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?aklwvfbp6cevl4a
>
> FLAC format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?u741heuaiz6wmlf
>
> I would like to thank these two gentlemen for their generosity.
Kip Williams
...
> Here is a complete recording of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, recorded
> acoustically by Pathé conducted by Monsieur Ruhlmann. The actual
> recording date is unclear. Claude Arnold's book puts the date as 1916,
> however, the collectors offering the file suggest Arnold’s book maybe
> the date of a reprinting or re-recording(*). The files offered here
> may have been done as early as 1912. If the date is correct that would
> make this the second recording of the work, after the F. Kark/Odeon of
> 1911 and before the Nikisch/ BPO of 1913.
> Mp3 format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?aklwvfbp6cevl4a
>
> FLAC format:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?u741heuaiz6wmlf
>
> I would like to thank these two gentlemen for their generosity.
Gerard
>
> and many happy returns of the season!
>
>
> Kip W
Three is not many ;)
Paul Haebler
these records and a picture of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is finally
clear:
1923 VOX Symphony Orchestra – Otto Urack
1923 Neues Sinfonieorchester – Bruno Seidler-Winkler (!!!!!!!!!!!!)
1924 (?) Berliner Sinfonieorchester – Camillo Hildebrand
1924 Orchester der Berliner Staatsoper – Frieder Weissmann
Matthew B. Tepper
passing them along to us!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Dontait...@aol.com
Hi Bill --
My reading and research has indicated that all flat, i.e. "regular
phonograph," Pathe records were dubbings from cylinder originals. (Of
course, "regular" also means that the Pathe grooves were "hill-and-
dale" rather than horizontally cut, as were Edisons.) So, since Claude
Arnold's book only considers "flat" records, not cylinders, the
speculation that the Ruhlmann recording might go back to 1912 (on
cylinder originals) doesn't sound far-fetched at all. The alternate
numbers could simply be for another dubbing and re-release of the
recording.
My understanding from friends and sources is that Mr. Arnold
assembled the immense amount of information in his book, in many cases
at least, from catalogues and other such sources. The only ones
available to him. As J.F.Weber, a hard expert to satisfy, wrote about
the book in the ARSC Journal, "the result is a masterpiece."
Nevertheless, new information turns up in cases such as this all the
time. I'm sure Claude Arnold would love to have the information your
contact provided.
It's great that you have posted and shared this.
Don Tait
harpsichordian
Bill, just one word -
WOW!
Best wishes,
Bryan Bishop
rje
My understanding from reading and other sources is that almost all but
the very earliest of Pathe's recordings issued on cylinders and, later
(from 1906-1908 on), vertically-cut flat discs of various sizes, were
made on very large diameter "master" cylinders from which the masters
for the pressing parts were prepared using a type of pantograph.
Ray
My thanks to Bill as well for sharing this rarity.
jolyon
Dear Bill
Many, many thanks for this recording - something I didn't think I
would ever actually hear.
Your very generous collector friend may know this already but when
the discs were cut via the pantograph method the stampers were, from
about 1910, very often dated.
Between 6 and 7 o'clock on the blank surface roughly under the 'P' of
Pathe and to the left of the stamper number, ie the number under the
Pathe, a very faint - and I do mean very faint - scratch date is given
in a rather curly script. As this was done on the stamper it is in
reverse and may say somthing like 6/11/12 for 6 Nov 1912.
Be warned you can go cross-eyed looking for these dates.
Kind regards
Jolyon
In fact is is so faint that it is often rubbed away - This date is
when the stamper or pressing was made so it gives you at least a cut
off date that the recording could not be after.
Lionel Tacchini
> Happy holidays everyone – for collectors of historic orchestral
> recordings, Christmas came a bit early this year!!
Thank you for posting this. The holiday season will allow for
comparative listening :-)
Lionel Tacchini
Bill Anderson
Thank you both for the additional information. I knew of the
pantograph process (decades ago , I remember reading about it in
Gelatt's book "The Fabulous Phonograph"). I will forward the
information regarding the stamping date to the collectors.
It would be interesting if any of those master cylinders that Pathe
used are still in existence..somewhere!
For those interested, there is a brief history of the early Pathe
machines and recordings can be found here:
http://www.pathefilm.freeserve.co.uk/muspathe.htm
- Bill
jolyon
Dear Bill
Pathe was financially in a bit of a mess by the late 1920s, not
content with selling off the trade mark and every other asset they
also sold all the master cylinders to be melted down - before this
happened a few early master cylinders of music hall celebrities from
the early 1900s were transcribed to disc via an electric pick-up
system , I have not heard these but have been told that they are
exceptionally good and show the master cylinders to have been a very
good recording system. Maybe a few escaped the general destruction but
this seems unlikely as processing was transferred to the Columbia
plant in France.
all a bit tragic - still we have the recordings!
Jolyon
Damian R
"jolyon" wrote in message
news:85a51802-ae5c-4de2...@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
You're not wrong - I've recently been accumulating a bunch of Pathés -
mainly vocal, but with some violin, some spoken word. It's hard work
deciphering some of those stamper dates, particularly when the record has
fine scratches in the area of the date. Some are very clear.
On the plus side, listening to Pathés of Schipa, Carrie Tubb, Ritter-Ciampi,
Franz, Mérentié, Clément, Buckman and so on has been a great pleasure.
Damian R
CharmNick
The owner of the set has kindly consented to allow me to share the
discographical data for this set, which he thinks was recorded and
issued c.1912, so here goes:
The size is 35 cm and I understand the discs are centre-start.
(i) 5020 [2 sides]
single face nos. 5245, 5246 / mtx nos. 93792-RA, 93777-RA
(ii) 5021, 5022 [3 sides]
single face nos. 5247, 5248, 5298 / mtx nos. 95673-RA, 93654-RA, 93545-
RA
(iii) 5022, 5023 [2 sides]
single face nos. 5299, 5300 / mtx nos. 93547-RA, 93762 [sic?]
(iv) 5023, 5024 [2 sides]
single face nos. 5301, 5302 / mtx nos. 93751-RA, 93793-RA
This means it's quite probably the same recording as that later issued
on edge-start, brown-label, 29 cm Pathé 6216, 6028-30, 6398[A], which
had the same single-face nos. for each side.
Happy New Year!
Nick
On Dec 18 2010, 1:45 am, Bill Anderson <willem.ander...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> A couple of months ago, CharmNick and I offered some 78 sides recorded
> by FrançoisRuhlmann, the long time house conductor for Pathé. Both
CharmNick
Nick