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Pristine Classical release: Toscanini's BBC Beethoven
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Andrew Rose
Jul 27, 2012, 9:54:12 AM7/27/12
to
Fabulous-sounding XR remasters of Toscanini's brilliant BBC Beethoven
recordings
"The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance..." - The
Gramophone, 1937
PASC 352 TOSCANINI Beethoven at the BBC
Recorded 1937/1939
Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Andrew Rose
BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 4 in B flat, Op. 60
BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" in F, Op. 68
BEETHOVEN Leonore Overture No. 1, Op. 138
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Conductor Arturo Toscanini
Web page: http://tinyurl.com/PASC352w
Short notes
"The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance, in the
recording of which I find a level of colour and sustainment, with a
marking of each point of easy emphasis, that at once marks the
production as one of my outstanding pleasures."
- The Gramophone, 1937
Toscanini visited London on a number of occasions between 1935 and 1939
to conduct the BBC Symphony Orchestra, which had come into being under
Adrian Boult in 1930 and quickly became an ensemble to delight the
Italian maestro.
These recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th symphonies, made in 1937 and
1939 (and joined by the Leonore 1 overture) show both conductor and
orchestra in an excellent light - and these new XR-remastered transfers
bring a new dimension of astonishing sound quality to these fabulous
performances.
Notes on this recording
Although generally these transfers threatened no great difficulties, and
have throughout produced excellent results, with XR remastering bringing
out beautiful and clear orchestral tones and weight, the second movement
of the Pastoral Symphony did produce a challenge. The original release
was a dub copy of the masters, in inferior sound quality, with audible
wow and a short section of the music missing. XR remastering has done a
lot to improve the sound quality here, Capstan software has cured the
pitch variations, and the careful "ageing" of a modern reference
recording and its blending into Toscanini's recording has patched the gap.
Andrew Rose
REVIEW Symphony 6 (excerpt)
For me, how pleasant is the accident that brings to my door, for a brief
hour, Beethoven's suite of pastoral romances, in these crispening winter
days. This is the time to remember summer holidays, and feel the benefit
of them ; the time-none better-to swing through the long, lazy day, from
tramping exhilaration to the afternoon siesta and the evening sport. The
exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance, in the
recording of which I find a level of colour and sustainment, with a
marking of each point of easy emphasis, that at once marks the
production as one of my outstanding pleasures. We have been getting a
rather wide range of reverberation-periods lately (too wide, I suggest:
it is surely time for greater standardization, for records at least, to
be attempted). Here I find an effect like the heightening of sensibility
which many may feel when released from toil. The music seems to come
with even more than its usual directness of speech; and I think I should
feel that if I had no idea who were the players or the conductor. We
have seen how well this band can rise to the demands of a rare spirit.
Sometimes they have done so but partially. They ought to have a longer
course of such refining and strengthening medicine. There is no magic in
it, of course. "Integrity" is only a partial explanation-integrity of
phrase. One gives most conductors credit for aiming at that; but so
often other considerations are allowed to get in the way. "The single
eye," again, is not enough; one may drive at some element of
interpretation, and drive it out of proportion. It is the beautiful
sense of proportion that always most strongly remains with you after
hearing most of Toscanini's performances. There are times when some of
his thought may seem less assuredly true, as in the great slowness of
part of his Brahms Requiem. But never does a symphonic slow movement
drag: and it is that dragging which spoils for me some parts of the work
of other conductors, for much of whose thought and feeling I am grateful...
The Gramophone, December 1937
REVIEW Symphony 4 (excerpt)
This is a good motto-piece for those willing to believe that the world,
like Beethoven, can learn to organise in the full sunshine of liberty.
How excellent are the doings early on the last side, where the bustlings
accompany a new idea! Those succeeding gusts of wind are given full
power. The conductor shows fine style in reserving strength for the best
places. It sounds almost as if the recorders had lent a hand too, on
this side. The virility and flexibility of the strings is especially
praiseworthy here. A grand recording.
The Gramophone, December 1939
MP3 Sample Symphony 6, 1st mvt http://tinyurl.com/PASC352
recordings
"The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance..." - The
Gramophone, 1937
PASC 352 TOSCANINI Beethoven at the BBC
Recorded 1937/1939
Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Andrew Rose
BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 4 in B flat, Op. 60
BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" in F, Op. 68
BEETHOVEN Leonore Overture No. 1, Op. 138
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Conductor Arturo Toscanini
Web page: http://tinyurl.com/PASC352w
Short notes
"The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance, in the
recording of which I find a level of colour and sustainment, with a
marking of each point of easy emphasis, that at once marks the
production as one of my outstanding pleasures."
- The Gramophone, 1937
Toscanini visited London on a number of occasions between 1935 and 1939
to conduct the BBC Symphony Orchestra, which had come into being under
Adrian Boult in 1930 and quickly became an ensemble to delight the
Italian maestro.
These recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th symphonies, made in 1937 and
1939 (and joined by the Leonore 1 overture) show both conductor and
orchestra in an excellent light - and these new XR-remastered transfers
bring a new dimension of astonishing sound quality to these fabulous
performances.
Notes on this recording
Although generally these transfers threatened no great difficulties, and
have throughout produced excellent results, with XR remastering bringing
out beautiful and clear orchestral tones and weight, the second movement
of the Pastoral Symphony did produce a challenge. The original release
was a dub copy of the masters, in inferior sound quality, with audible
wow and a short section of the music missing. XR remastering has done a
lot to improve the sound quality here, Capstan software has cured the
pitch variations, and the careful "ageing" of a modern reference
recording and its blending into Toscanini's recording has patched the gap.
Andrew Rose
REVIEW Symphony 6 (excerpt)
For me, how pleasant is the accident that brings to my door, for a brief
hour, Beethoven's suite of pastoral romances, in these crispening winter
days. This is the time to remember summer holidays, and feel the benefit
of them ; the time-none better-to swing through the long, lazy day, from
tramping exhilaration to the afternoon siesta and the evening sport. The
exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance, in the
recording of which I find a level of colour and sustainment, with a
marking of each point of easy emphasis, that at once marks the
production as one of my outstanding pleasures. We have been getting a
rather wide range of reverberation-periods lately (too wide, I suggest:
it is surely time for greater standardization, for records at least, to
be attempted). Here I find an effect like the heightening of sensibility
which many may feel when released from toil. The music seems to come
with even more than its usual directness of speech; and I think I should
feel that if I had no idea who were the players or the conductor. We
have seen how well this band can rise to the demands of a rare spirit.
Sometimes they have done so but partially. They ought to have a longer
course of such refining and strengthening medicine. There is no magic in
it, of course. "Integrity" is only a partial explanation-integrity of
phrase. One gives most conductors credit for aiming at that; but so
often other considerations are allowed to get in the way. "The single
eye," again, is not enough; one may drive at some element of
interpretation, and drive it out of proportion. It is the beautiful
sense of proportion that always most strongly remains with you after
hearing most of Toscanini's performances. There are times when some of
his thought may seem less assuredly true, as in the great slowness of
part of his Brahms Requiem. But never does a symphonic slow movement
drag: and it is that dragging which spoils for me some parts of the work
of other conductors, for much of whose thought and feeling I am grateful...
The Gramophone, December 1937
REVIEW Symphony 4 (excerpt)
This is a good motto-piece for those willing to believe that the world,
like Beethoven, can learn to organise in the full sunshine of liberty.
How excellent are the doings early on the last side, where the bustlings
accompany a new idea! Those succeeding gusts of wind are given full
power. The conductor shows fine style in reserving strength for the best
places. It sounds almost as if the recorders had lent a hand too, on
this side. The virility and flexibility of the strings is especially
praiseworthy here. A grand recording.
The Gramophone, December 1939
MP3 Sample Symphony 6, 1st mvt http://tinyurl.com/PASC352
Message has been deleted
Mark Obert-Thorn
Jul 27, 2012, 11:06:43 AM7/27/12
to
On Jul 27, 10:34 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
> coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
> 1' - not take 2..
>
> 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
> 'someone else's' transfer - mmmmm??
I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
my copy. I probably made a typo, or didn't catch one on Naxos's end.
The only thing Andrew copied here was the incorrect matrix information
on the Naxos CD.
Mark O-T
> However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
> coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
> 1' - not take 2..
>
> 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
> 'someone else's' transfer - mmmmm??
I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
my copy. I probably made a typo, or didn't catch one on Naxos's end.
The only thing Andrew copied here was the incorrect matrix information
on the Naxos CD.
Mark O-T
Abbeddrose Bierce
Jul 27, 2012, 11:22:42 AM7/27/12
to
Maestro what he wanted in crappy pseudo--sound
Abbedd
wade
Jul 27, 2012, 12:13:21 PM7/27/12
to
On Friday, July 27, 2012 8:06:43 AM UTC-7, Mark Obert-Thorn wrote:
> On Jul 27, 10:34 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
> > coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
> > 1' - not take 2..
> >
> > 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
> > 'someone else's' transfer - mmmmm??
> On Jul 27, 10:34 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
> > coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
> > 1' - not take 2..
> >
> > 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
> > 'someone else's' transfer - mmmmm??
>
> I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
> my copy. I probably made a typo, or didn't catch one on Naxos's end.
> I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
> The only thing Andrew copied here was the incorrect matrix information
> on the Naxos CD.
>
> Mark O-T
The issue with missing music in these recordings brings up thoughts on the whole matter about what should be done where that is found to be the case and it is not a matter of intentional score edits. When "filling in the blanks" is done, IMO, minimally it has to be identified by the transcriber as to where, how, and with what (as has been done here) but should it also be tracked as such so it could be skipped or if there were fades, should the unpatched version also be made available? If there are multiple available takes, especially if released, should those also be included and selectable as a rule? Personally, in this case with Andrew's edition, I am less happy with the concept of choosing a more current recording and monkeying with it to make it fit than using something like another AT recording of the same piece to work with as a filler. But overall I find what he does extremely interesting. I wish I could afford to buy and compare more of his editions.
> on the Naxos CD.
>
> Mark O-T
Matthew B. Tepper
Jul 27, 2012, 4:16:02 PM7/27/12
to
wade <wade...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:1b130c7c-f534-4b0c...@googlegroups.com:
> On Friday, July 27, 2012 8:06:43 AM UTC-7, Mark Obert-Thorn wrote:
whether Guild might bring out the Toscanini Bruckner 7th with, as they have
done with other issues, patches of the missing music from other
performances. If so, where might they get them? My choice would be Kurt
Masur's 7th with the same orchestra from the same venue, with the sound
suitably limited and noised up, but that would be a definite no-no.
Perhaps Horenstein/Berlin PO?
And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain in
the ass to quote? And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long
paragraph is on a single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap"
function (a menu option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or
hit "F" for a reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form,
and I can then discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
to be typed in news:1b130c7c-f534-4b0c...@googlegroups.com:
> On Friday, July 27, 2012 8:06:43 AM UTC-7, Mark Obert-Thorn wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 10:34 am, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
>> coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
>> 1' - not take 2..
>>
>> 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
>> 'someone else's' transfer - mmmmm??>>
>> However..I've the very first (and 'new') HMV pressings of this (auto-
>> coupled) - bought 14 December 1937 - and 2EA 3587 is definitely 'take
>> 1' - not take 2..
>>
>> 'Only asking'... but.what are the 'odds' that Rosey has copied
>>
>> I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
>> my copy. I probably made a typo, or didn't catch one on Naxos's
>> I just checked my Victor set again, and 2EA 3587 is indeed Take 1 on
>> end. The only thing Andrew copied here was the incorrect matrix
>> information on the Naxos CD.
>>
>> Mark O-T
>
> The issue with missing music in these recordings brings up thoughts on
> the whole matter about what should be done where that is found to be the
> case and it is not a matter of intentional score edits. When "filling in
> the blanks" is done, IMO, minimally it has to be identified by the
> transcriber as to where, how, and with what (as has been done here) but
> should it also be tracked as such so it could be skipped or if there were
> fades, should the unpatched version also be made available? If there are
> multiple available takes, especially if released, should those also be
> included and selectable as a rule? Personally, in this case with
> Andrew's edition, I am less happy with the concept of choosing a more
> current recording and monkeying with it to make it fit than using
> something like another AT recording of the same piece to work with as a
> filler. But overall I find what he does extremely interesting. I wish
> I could afford to buy and compare more of his editions.
I can't recall whether I've mentioned this before, but I'm wondering
>> information on the Naxos CD.
>>
>> Mark O-T
>
> The issue with missing music in these recordings brings up thoughts on
> the whole matter about what should be done where that is found to be the
> case and it is not a matter of intentional score edits. When "filling in
> the blanks" is done, IMO, minimally it has to be identified by the
> transcriber as to where, how, and with what (as has been done here) but
> should it also be tracked as such so it could be skipped or if there were
> fades, should the unpatched version also be made available? If there are
> multiple available takes, especially if released, should those also be
> included and selectable as a rule? Personally, in this case with
> Andrew's edition, I am less happy with the concept of choosing a more
> current recording and monkeying with it to make it fit than using
> something like another AT recording of the same piece to work with as a
> filler. But overall I find what he does extremely interesting. I wish
> I could afford to buy and compare more of his editions.
whether Guild might bring out the Toscanini Bruckner 7th with, as they have
done with other issues, patches of the missing music from other
performances. If so, where might they get them? My choice would be Kurt
Masur's 7th with the same orchestra from the same venue, with the sound
suitably limited and noised up, but that would be a definite no-no.
Perhaps Horenstein/Berlin PO?
And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain in
the ass to quote? And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long
paragraph is on a single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap"
function (a menu option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or
hit "F" for a reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form,
and I can then discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
Kimba W Lion
Jul 27, 2012, 5:21:15 PM7/27/12
to
"Matthew�B.�Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
>strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
>apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain in
>the ass to quote?
Google is doing something weird. They're confused about how to convert html to
>And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
>strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
>apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain in
>the ass to quote?
ascii text. (The codes beginning with "&" and ending with ";" are html codes.)
If I knew why they can't do it right, I'd tell you.
>And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long
>paragraph is on a single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap"
>function (a menu option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or
>hit "F" for a reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form,
>and I can then discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
breaks like a good newsreader would do. Thank you for giving me the idea of a
menu option, though. I never thought to look for one. Agent indeed has it, and
it has a hot key for it ("O").
Matthew�B.�Tepper
Jul 27, 2012, 9:45:26 PM7/27/12
to
Kimba W Lion <noreplie...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> appears to have
> "Matthew�B.�Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
>> strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
>> apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain
>> in the ass to quote?
>
> Google is doing something weird. They're confused about how to convert
> html to ascii text. (The codes beginning with "&" and ending with ";"
> are html codes.) If I knew why they can't do it right, I'd tell you.
*Matthew smacks own forehead* Of course! I ought to have recognized them
as old-style HTML codes; I used to make a living coding sites by hand.
>> And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long paragraph is on
>> a single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap" function (a
>> menu option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or hit "F"
>> for a reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form, and I
>> can then discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
>
> Again, that seems to come from Google users. Google is not inserting
> line breaks like a good newsreader would do. Thank you for giving me the
> idea of a menu option, though. I never thought to look for one. Agent
> indeed has it, and it has a hot key for it ("O").
I have just now made the observation that Xnews 2006.08.24, to which I just
upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve, is
there?), treats Word Wrap as a toggle. You can turn it on and it will then
stay on, at least through the end of your session. I suppose I'll find out
whether it persists between sessions at some point. At any rate, problem
is worked around, if not entirely solved.
(Added: Looks like it does not persist. Oh well, it's only a slight
bother. Too bad the program's creator has abandoned it.)
caused the following letters to be typed in
news:n51618hpkv527t7o5...@4ax.com:
> "Matthew�B.�Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> And another thing -- why the eff am I seeing so many posts packed with
>> strings of symbols instead of characters (such as angle brackets,
>> apostrophes, and so on), which lessen the readability and make it a pain
>> in the ass to quote?
>
> Google is doing something weird. They're confused about how to convert
> html to ascii text. (The codes beginning with "&" and ending with ";"
> are html codes.) If I knew why they can't do it right, I'd tell you.
as old-style HTML codes; I used to make a living coding sites by hand.
>> And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long paragraph is on
>> a single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap" function (a
>> menu option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or hit "F"
>> for a reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form, and I
>> can then discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
>
> Again, that seems to come from Google users. Google is not inserting
> line breaks like a good newsreader would do. Thank you for giving me the
> idea of a menu option, though. I never thought to look for one. Agent
> indeed has it, and it has a hot key for it ("O").
upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve, is
there?), treats Word Wrap as a toggle. You can turn it on and it will then
stay on, at least through the end of your session. I suppose I'll find out
whether it persists between sessions at some point. At any rate, problem
is worked around, if not entirely solved.
(Added: Looks like it does not persist. Oh well, it's only a slight
bother. Too bad the program's creator has abandoned it.)
Kimba W Lion
Jul 27, 2012, 10:00:06 PM7/27/12
to
"Matthew�B.�Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Xnews 2006.08.24, to which I just
>upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve, is
>there?)
I'm still using Agent 1.92 (2002). Hey, it works, and works well. Why bother
>Xnews 2006.08.24, to which I just
>upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve, is
>there?)
"upgrading"?
Edward Cowan
Jul 27, 2012, 11:49:03 PM7/27/12
to
I'm using MacSOUP, a mail- and newsreader uniquely for the Macintosh
computer. It has a menu-based command "Rewrap text," that also enables a
keyboard option for selecting this function (<option> R). You just
highlight the text that needs to be rewrapped, and the program rewraps
the text for you. It functions this way not only for replies, but also
for the display of original messages. --E.A.C.
computer. It has a menu-based command "Rewrap text," that also enables a
keyboard option for selecting this function (<option> R). You just
highlight the text that needs to be rewrapped, and the program rewraps
the text for you. It functions this way not only for replies, but also
for the display of original messages. --E.A.C.
> And also, why are there so many posts where a whole long paragraph is on a
> single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap" function (a menu
> option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or hit "F" for a
> reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form, and I can then
> discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
--
hrabanus
> single line, forcing me either to use Xnews' "word wrap" function (a menu
> option, unfortunately without a hotkey that I know of) or hit "F" for a
> reply (which restructures the paragraph into readable form, and I can then
> discard the message if I don't have a comment)?
--
Edward Cowan
Jul 28, 2012, 10:43:14 AM7/28/12
to
A correction to my previous message: The keystroke for rewrapping in
MacSOUP is <command> R, not <option> R. Hope this helps... --E.A.C.
MacSOUP is <command> R, not <option> R. Hope this helps... --E.A.C.
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 28, 2012, 10:53:01 AM7/28/12
to
On 27 jul, 10:54, Andrew Rose <and...@pristineaudio.com> wrote:
> Fabulous-sounding XR remasters of Toscanini's brilliant BBC Beethoven
> recordings
>
> "The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance..." - The
> Gramophone, 1937
>
> PASC 352 TOSCANINI Beethoven at the BBC
> Recorded 1937/1939
> Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Andrew Rose
>
> BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 4 in B flat, Op. 60
> BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" in F, Op. 68
> BEETHOVEN Leonore Overture No. 1, Op. 138
>
> BBC Symphony Orchestra
> Conductor Arturo Toscanini
>
> Web page:http://tinyurl.com/PASC352w
Put aside your prejudices and personal animosities, please, be
> Fabulous-sounding XR remasters of Toscanini's brilliant BBC Beethoven
> recordings
>
> "The exhilaration never fails in this long-phrased performance..." - The
> Gramophone, 1937
>
> PASC 352 TOSCANINI Beethoven at the BBC
> Recorded 1937/1939
> Producer and Audio Restoration Engineer: Andrew Rose
>
> BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 4 in B flat, Op. 60
> BEETHOVEN Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral" in F, Op. 68
> BEETHOVEN Leonore Overture No. 1, Op. 138
>
> BBC Symphony Orchestra
> Conductor Arturo Toscanini
>
> Web page:http://tinyurl.com/PASC352w
objective.
This is a great transfer, a very good made work, fantastic remastering
that make the recording sounds like made 20/30 years later, at
least; you could hear every detail with the maximum clarity.
A must have one!!!!
Message has been deleted
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 28, 2012, 1:34:28 PM7/28/12
to
On 28 jul, 13:15, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ..if anyone wanted 'maximum clarity' they wouldn't start with matrices
> pressed onto commercial, coarse-grain shellac...and would use a
> genuine High-Fidelity PU cartridge.
Shure M44 and Stanton 500 are the standard for 78 RPM records in many
studios, as Abbey Road for name one.
They have a wide selection of specific stylus for every coarse groove
size.
> Let's see: aside from Capstan, inter-alia, he uses Izotope RXII
> (downloadable from the internet - free) & Har-Bal (ditto - so long as
> you don't mind introducing your PC to the Agobot GBW 'worm': oh - you
> didn't mind..LOL).
iZotope RX 2 cost U$S 349 the standard version and U$S 1199 the
Advanced version.
Har-Bal 2.3 cost @ U$S 100, cheap if you think that is more than an
equalizer, Capstan Celemony cost U$S 4458.
Shellacs could be playbacked in more than a decent way with a Audio
Technica AT-PL120, wich basically is a Technics MKII with 78 RPM, so I
suppose that a Rega could do it better.
Name me a recording studio for commercial issues that work with a
better set up.
> ..if anyone wanted 'maximum clarity' they wouldn't start with matrices
> pressed onto commercial, coarse-grain shellac...and would use a
> genuine High-Fidelity PU cartridge.
Shure M44 and Stanton 500 are the standard for 78 RPM records in many
studios, as Abbey Road for name one.
They have a wide selection of specific stylus for every coarse groove
size.
> Let's see: aside from Capstan, inter-alia, he uses Izotope RXII
> (downloadable from the internet - free) & Har-Bal (ditto - so long as
> you don't mind introducing your PC to the Agobot GBW 'worm': oh - you
> didn't mind..LOL).
iZotope RX 2 cost U$S 349 the standard version and U$S 1199 the
Advanced version.
Har-Bal 2.3 cost @ U$S 100, cheap if you think that is more than an
equalizer, Capstan Celemony cost U$S 4458.
Shellacs could be playbacked in more than a decent way with a Audio
Technica AT-PL120, wich basically is a Technics MKII with 78 RPM, so I
suppose that a Rega could do it better.
Name me a recording studio for commercial issues that work with a
better set up.
Abbeddrose Bierce
Jul 28, 2012, 1:37:10 PM7/28/12
to
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 10:34:28 -0700 (PDT), Dumbarton Oaks
<varel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 28 jul, 13:15, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ..if anyone wanted 'maximum clarity' they wouldn't start with matrices
>> pressed onto commercial, coarse-grain shellac...and would use a
>> genuine High-Fidelity PU cartridge.
>
>Shure M44 and Stanton 500 are the standard for 78 RPM records in many
>studios, as Abbey Road for name one.
>They have a wide selection of specific stylus for every coarse groove
>size.
>
The shure has a big bass boost and is crap and BOTH do not track
<varel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 28 jul, 13:15, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ..if anyone wanted 'maximum clarity' they wouldn't start with matrices
>> pressed onto commercial, coarse-grain shellac...and would use a
>> genuine High-Fidelity PU cartridge.
>
>Shure M44 and Stanton 500 are the standard for 78 RPM records in many
>studios, as Abbey Road for name one.
>They have a wide selection of specific stylus for every coarse groove
>size.
>
heavy enough
Abbedd
Message has been deleted
Alan Cooper
Jul 28, 2012, 3:58:52 PM7/28/12
to
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:XnsA09DBECEC8B...@216.168.3.70:
> I have just now made the observation that Xnews 2006.08.24, to which I
> just upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve,
> is there?), treats Word Wrap as a toggle. You can turn it on and it
> will then stay on, at least through the end of your session. I
> suppose I'll find out whether it persists between sessions at some
> point. At any rate, problem is worked around, if not entirely solved.
>
> (Added: Looks like it does not persist. Oh well, it's only a slight
> bother. Too bad the program's creator has abandoned it.)
Adding the line FixWrapOpt=1 to the xnews.ini file is supposed to make word wrap automatic
and enabled by default. Doesn't work for me (perhaps I misunderstand its purpose), although
the toggle solution does work for a given session.
AC
news:XnsA09DBECEC8B...@216.168.3.70:
> I have just now made the observation that Xnews 2006.08.24, to which I
> just upgraded a few days ago (nothing like being WAY behind the curve,
> is there?), treats Word Wrap as a toggle. You can turn it on and it
> will then stay on, at least through the end of your session. I
> suppose I'll find out whether it persists between sessions at some
> point. At any rate, problem is worked around, if not entirely solved.
>
> (Added: Looks like it does not persist. Oh well, it's only a slight
> bother. Too bad the program's creator has abandoned it.)
and enabled by default. Doesn't work for me (perhaps I misunderstand its purpose), although
the toggle solution does work for a given session.
AC
Matthew B. Tepper
Jul 28, 2012, 11:53:15 PM7/28/12
to
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> appears to have caused the
I'll give it a try anyway, thanks.
Nope, it didn't work for me either. Oh well.
following letters to be typed in
news:XnsA09EA291073E9am...@209.197.15.254:
Nope, it didn't work for me either. Oh well.
Andrew Rose
Jul 29, 2012, 3:11:12 AM7/29/12
to
matrix numbers from a piece of paper or a screen than it is from pulling
each disc out of its cover whilst sitting in front of a PC and a desk
covered in paperwork and squinting at them with eyes that aren't what
they once were - a possibly more reliable route to transcriptions errors
and cracked 78rpm discs!
The problem with this, as in any "copy and paste" operation, is that
mistakes in the original get duplicated errors perpetuated - just as
they do when people rely on Wikipedia, the press, and other sources of
information that might not always be 100% accurate but usually are. Yes,
I could have (and perhaps should have) double checked - but we all rely
on secondary sources time and time for information, and this particular
slip-up isn't the end of the world.
It's not the first time I've been grateful that Naxos make their CD
covers available online (other sources can be equally useful) some days
after the original discs have been safely stored away, and I'm sure it
won't be the last.
Andrew Rose
Jul 29, 2012, 6:15:38 AM7/29/12
to
On 27/07/2012 18:13, wade wrote:
>
> Personally, in this case with Andrew's edition, I am less happy with the concept of
choosing a more current recording and monkeying with it to make it fit
than using something
like another AT recording of the same piece to work with as a filler.
It's a fair point, and for a longer insert perhaps I might have used
>
> Personally, in this case with Andrew's edition, I am less happy with the concept of
choosing a more current recording and monkeying with it to make it fit
than using something
like another AT recording of the same piece to work with as a filler.
another Toscanini recording - or indeed, none whatsoever (as was the
case with his Bruckner 7, where no alternative Toscanini recording
existed and the gaps were longer).
In this case we're talking about a couple of bars, and I wanted the
drop-in to be as seamless and unidentifiable as possible. The aim is to
create the illusion of continuity where none existed. This is far easier
to achieve when beginning with a very high quality original, free of
distortion, hiss, wow and flutter, "vintage" tone (i.e. poorly recording
by modern standards, but in a different way to the recording being
patched) etc.
Put simply, it's easier to get a recording's sound from 1990 to 1937
than it is from 1947 to 1937. FWIW, of the two patches on other issues
of this recording for which I know the source, neither was Toscanini,
though without access to the kind of technology now available both used
older recordings than I did - and where a patch wasn't used, the
crossfade at the point of the missing notes sounds pretty awful.
Whatever you do it can't be 100% authentic - but I'd prefer personally
an illusion so convincing that it can't be spotted to any other solution.
Message has been deleted
Steve de Mena
Jul 31, 2012, 4:06:02 AM7/31/12
to
On 7/28/12 9:15 AM, frankwm wrote:
> Let's see: aside from Capstan, inter-alia, he uses Izotope RXII
> (downloadable from the internet - free) & Har-Bal (ditto - so long as
> you don't mind introducing your PC to the Agobot GBW 'worm': oh - you
> didn't mind..LOL).
Izotope RXII is not "downloadable from the internet - free". It's a
> Let's see: aside from Capstan, inter-alia, he uses Izotope RXII
> (downloadable from the internet - free) & Har-Bal (ditto - so long as
> you don't mind introducing your PC to the Agobot GBW 'worm': oh - you
> didn't mind..LOL).
damn good program, highly regarded in the industry (especially the
"Spectral Repair" feature), and I have used it extensively myself.
The regular version is $349 and the Advanced version is $1,199.
http://www.izotope.com/store/
>
> No doubt you can explain how it is that Izotope (which you use,
> enthusiastically) begins damaging sound-quality even on its lowest de-
> click setting; and higher settings have the ability to 'remove'
> instruments - particularly if they reside near the low-level surface
> 'noise': that's LP surface-noise: 78 shellac noise-reduction requires
> far more aggressive filtering: but 'all can be made good' by playing
> around with an equalizer; so that, according to you, "you could hear
> every detail with the maximum clarity".
Steve
Message has been deleted
Andrew Rose
Jul 31, 2012, 8:54:16 AM7/31/12
to
On 31/07/2012 10:06, Steve de Mena wrote:
> the Advanced version is $1,199.
And worth every cent...
> the Advanced version is $1,199.
Message has been deleted
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 31, 2012, 4:39:14 PM7/31/12
to
>
> ...particularly if you're cloth-eared - and consider a cheapo 'kiddies-
> toy' turntable to be sufficient for transcribing '78s'....
>
Sorry, but Thorens is not a professional turntable also.
> ...particularly if you're cloth-eared - and consider a cheapo 'kiddies-
> toy' turntable to be sufficient for transcribing '78s'....
>
Sorry, but Thorens is not a professional turntable also.
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 31, 2012, 4:43:05 PM7/31/12
to
> ...particularly if you're cloth-eared - and consider a cheapo 'kiddies-
> toy' turntable to be sufficient for transcribing '78s'....
a) rotate at the exact selected speed
b) do it silently
c) nor introduce noise/distortion on the original signal.
Rega 78 can do it without any problem.
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 31, 2012, 4:35:43 PM7/31/12
to
know another piece of software that can produce so good results.
Steve de Mena
Jul 31, 2012, 7:46:17 PM7/31/12
to
On 7/31/12 4:03 AM, frankwm wrote:
> FYI- you can find >> Izotope RXII Advanced << on the internet 'for free' - ask here/google around.
>
> It is as I describe: have also seen similar 'net comments.
Izotope is not a free product, period. End of story.
Virtually all software has been pirated. Does that make them all free?
Are you implying Andrew is using a pirated copy?
Steve
> FYI- you can find >> Izotope RXII Advanced << on the internet 'for free' - ask here/google around.
>
> It is as I describe: have also seen similar 'net comments.
Izotope is not a free product, period. End of story.
Virtually all software has been pirated. Does that make them all free?
Are you implying Andrew is using a pirated copy?
Steve
Dumbarton Oaks
Jul 31, 2012, 10:18:04 PM7/31/12
to
On 31 jul, 08:03, frankwm <frankwmar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> FYI- you can find >> Izotope RXII Advanced << on the internet 'for free' - ask here/google around.
>
> It is as I describe: have also seen similar 'net comments.
>
> If I can hear the diminution in 'quality' - even @ the lowest -'1' - auto de-click setting - then so should you...even if Andrew Rose cannot (inferior BBC monitors...) and this software, plus others he uses, is the main reason for the 'smooth/impressionistic with accentuated-highlights' sound he peddles to the Punters.
> FYI- you can find >> Izotope RXII Advanced << on the internet 'for free' - ask here/google around.
>
> It is as I describe: have also seen similar 'net comments.
>
>
> It is Not High-Fidelity: not accurate to he original source -or even to some perception of what 'the original recording session' might have sounded like - as so much 'information' has been removed.
>
There's a great difference between playback a record (or shellac in
this case) at home and a transfer made for commercial release, you
can't sell click & crackle, you can share in an amateur way but not
sell them.
The other fact is that there are a lot of audible illussions, suppose
that you playback a used, heavely used 1950's mono record, a very
good record, a Decca ffrr; what you will hear is the music information
+ surface noise (click, crackle) + hum + tape noise + other
distortions coming from the original recording, you have Decca
records, I have Decca records.
Click and crackle where placed (if you select "spectral repair" on
iZotope you will see) on the high frecuency range, so its sounds like
having a lot of high frecuency content, that's why when you COMPLETE
remove them (if you can), no matter the way you do it, the first
sensation for the ear is that this recording sounds dryiest compare
with the original, so you think "hey, musical content was removed"....
Maybe no, what really happend was that the high range dropped from 22
Khz to a more humble 12 Khz. This is the moment when the bass,
specially the mid-bass starts to sounds ugly, overloaded so you must
rebalance the EQ in order to make it more confortable to your ears,
but before you must remove all the other troubles, why? because once
you clean one trouble (for said, hiss) appears another (for said
rumble), literally, takes hours of working keep the sound you want;
that why I respect a lot people like Mark Obert-Thorn or Andrew Rose,
because what they do is not press two times the mouse and the job is
do it, believe me; today there ara a lot of software and hardware to
do it, but the last decision must be taken by you.
Message has been deleted
Dumbarton Oaks
Aug 1, 2012, 10:06:34 AM8/1/12
to
> Andrew Rose is 'an amateur'....the Fact he 'noise-reduces' material
> 'to death' does not make him 'a professional'.
Could you please tell us what is the difference between an "amateur"
and a "professional" in your opinion?
> 'to death' does not make him 'a professional'.
Could you please tell us what is the difference between an "amateur"
and a "professional" in your opinion?
Message has been deleted
Andrew Rose
Aug 1, 2012, 11:31:35 AM8/1/12
to
from a variety of companies over the last 6 or 7 years, including
Izotope. Generally this means I'm using the next generation version long
before it hits the shops. Alas this wasn't the case with Capstan
(ouch!), which I'd already paid for before being invited to help out
with future developments. I do however believe that a number of minor
improvements to Izotope's RX have been thanks to my involvement and
suggestions - far more constructive than software piracy, of which I
have no need nor inclination.
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