Joyce Hatto: Iberia on Concert Artist CACD 9120-2
Tom Deacon
First we have had the revelatory remastering of AdL's stereo Hispavox
recording of the work from the early 1960s.
Then came MAH's inspired reading for Hyperion, setting a new technical
standard for this work in my opinion.
And now, from an unlikely source, I would say without any prejudice to her,
we have the complete Iberia on ONE CD from the English pianist Joyce Hatto.
One wonders whether there is anything this fine pianist cannot play. Her
recent recordings have included the complete Beethoven sonatas, the complete
Prokofiev sonatas, the complete Rachmaninoff concerti, everything Chopin
ever wrote, and so on and so on. Even the Chopin-Godowsky Etudes, which I
await from Crotchet with keen anticipation. Certainly her reading of Iberia,
more subdued and perhaps less incisive - although that may be the quality of
her Steinway rather than her playing - than MAH's, but no less technically
expert, reveals a complete grasp of the idiom as well as an intellectual
grasp of the music. Her reading in, for example, the Fete Dieu, a
notoriously treacherous piece requiring a command of the layering of musical
information, is both eloquent AND unstressed. Her rhetorical pacing of the
melody in the central episode is a model of control and sensitivity. If you
are not moved at this kind of playing, you are made of stone, I would
suggest. Strangely, her intellectual grasp of this music reminds me of my
recent experience of the music with Yvonne Loriod.
Not only does one ask whether there is anything Joyce Hatto cannot play, one
is forced also to ask WHY we have not been enjoying her artistry for more of
her 75 years. A student of Cortot, Joyce Hatto still has much to offer us in
a wide range of music.
So, another high water mark for Iberia.
What remains to be done? Well, I would like the Loriod to see the light of
day again. And surely Michel Block deserves to be reissued by French EMI, as
does the Querol set, which, however, is not really that good. And, perhaps
for completeness, EMI should dig up the mono version Alicia de Larrocha made
in the mid 1950s which was issued in the USA by Columbia Records.
In the meantime, it has to be said that about one hundred years from the
date of its creation, Albeniz' Iberia is in very good hands. Perhaps it will
no longer be regarded as 12 postcards from Spain, but as one of the greatest
pieces of music ever written for the piano. Both Joyce Hatto and Marc-Andre
Hamelin have shown us that, albeit in quite different ways.
TD
sidoze
Perhaps? One certainly hopes so. IMO it's one of the cornerstones of
the repertoire, a real triumph of imagination, beauty and musicality.
I'd take it almost any day over most composers' piano works, save
Chopin.
Thanks for the words on Hotto. I would like to hear this, as well as
her Chopin. She is next on my list then. Right now I'm awaiting
Yudina's Kiev concert ;)
Tom Deacon
On 6/24/05 1:26 PM, in article
1119633960.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "sidoze"
<sid...@gmail.com> wrote:
As are, for me, her Prokofiev Sonatas 1-5, the 75th anniversary Chopin
Etudes, Brahms Paganini and Op. 116-119, and Schumann Concerto and
Kinderzenen. The Godowsky are on the way, but much anticipated.
TD
alanwa...@aol.com
for I have known this wonderful artist all my life and, as may have
been noticed, have tried to draw attention to several of her
recordings.
Indeed, there have been many occasions when I have seen a discussion on
a piano composition where I have longed to mention her interpretation
but refrained from doing so. Why? Two reasons, really: the first that
I thought it would sound very much like a "stuck groove" and might lose
credibility for the artist and secondly because on such a knowledgeable
forum I cannot usually do the comparison with the recording that is
being discussed which is obviously vital on such a group as this.
I almost did not mention her in Iberia for that reason: I have not
heard any of the recordings mentioned in the previous threads and so I
cannot "judge" her against those or answer questions which mightly
rightly have been put: how does she compare with A, B etc.
However, and I hope I do not sound pompous for it is not my intention,
I do trust my musical judgment and my ears and I think I instinctively
know when a performance has what I call the "it" factor: I cannot
define that but I know when it is there, always.
I first heard Joyce play when she was in her late 20s or early 30s in
London where she was a major artist, playing with all the great
conductors of the time, being invited by Chopin organisations in Poland
to come and play Chopin to them (I think that says something),
frequently touring, frequently concertising. In the booklet that
accompanies her wonderful newly issued recording of the complete Etudes
she recalls playing them through to Cortot and being encored by him
time and time again. Her reminiscences in this are almost worth the
price of the record in itself.
One of the great assets that Joyce has is of complete technical command
of the piano which enables her always to concentrate on the
interpretation of the music without technical concerns getting in the
way. You will never hear over use a pedal: never, ever, because she
does not need to do so. Every musician knows that some pianists make
use of it because it creates a "wash" of sound and, to be truthful, can
cover up technical imperfections. Nothing wrong with that: every
musician has to make concessions somewhere along the line but I have
yet to hear Joyce do so very much.
She is also blessed with a wonderful left hand which is nearly always,
in the case of a pianist, what makes the difference to me and blessed
also with a wonderful touch which successfully grades dynamics within
dynamics.
She does something else for me as well: I always feel that she is just
presenting the music and not putting herself between "me" and the music
to such an extent (as can sometimes happen, I think) where you start
listening to the pianist instead of the music. It is the music I am
after.
I did not know Iberia for piano before listening to this performance
but I have studied it carefully know and find it a fascinating piece.
I know that in America her recordings are rather pricey (which is a
great pity and which is also affecting APR as well) but in my judgment
she really does have something very special to offer across a wide
range of repertoire.
I would commend her most recent recording of the Chopin Etudes, much of
it recorded on her 75th birthday, a most wonderful performance of
dazzling virtuosity and extreme beauty (the latter not possible without
the first of course).
Aside from that I can recommend Pictures at an Exhibition (not, not the
normal how hard can we hit this chord but how "musical" can we make
this chord). All my life my favourite Beethoven Sonata has been the
somewhat enigmatic Op 109 and her recording of that captures it
perfectly, in my opinion.
You will enjoy the Godowsky, I think, and then you might start on the
Rachmaninov, particularly Sonata No 1 (which is as far as I have got at
the moment). For the first time in my life I have bought every
recording on offer and am working through two large boxes of them.
Her playing is as I remember it when we were (both) young, always
illuminating.
I will desist before I do get stuck in the repetitive groove which I
fear but, really, I do think she is something special.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Alan Cooper
wrote:
>There are truly extraordinary times for the Albeniz' masterpiece Iberia.
>
>First we have had the revelatory remastering of AdL's stereo Hispavox
>recording of the work from the early 1960s.
>
>Then came MAH's inspired reading for Hyperion, setting a new technical
>standard for this work in my opinion.
>
>And now, from an unlikely source, I would say without any prejudice to her,
>we have the complete Iberia on ONE CD from the English pianist Joyce Hatto.
Many thanks for this review. On the strength of these comments and
those of Alan Watkins, I ordered a copy from Musicweb. I also noticed
that Musicweb has a two-for-the-price-of-one offer on Hatto's
recordings of the Brahms Piano Concerti (with various solo works,
including op. 118, as fillers). So I ordered those, too. Musicweb
charges more than Crotchet's for the discs, but the price includes
shipping.
I agree that it would be nice to have Michel Block's Iberia available
once more. One would have thought that the artist's death would
elicit some sort of memorial issue, but I guess it's not going to
happen.
Incidentally, there is another first-rate Iberia on a single CD:
Unwin's recording on Chandos.
AC
alanwa...@aol.com
not find anything by Lizst as difficult as the first movement of Chopin
Sonata 2 Op 35. She observes the repeat in Movement I by the way,
which I do not think all do.
Tom Deacon
On 6/24/05 3:42 PM, in article q5oob15aqdovjfm5n...@4ax.com,
"Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
> Incidentally, there is another first-rate Iberia on a single CD:
> Unwin's recording on Chandos.
I had not noticed that release. Chandos releases so many CDs, I simply gave
up keeping track of them a decade ago.
I know nothing at all about Unwin.
TD
SG
> Right now I'm awaiting Yudina's Kiev concert
Judging by what you wrote about Friedman, you'll truly hate this. You
will find it crude, vulgar even etc. (Please prove me wrong ( :)
regards,
SG
Dan Koren
> Not only does one ask whether there is anything Joyce Hatto cannot play, one
> is forced also to ask WHY we have not been enjoying her artistry for more of
> her 75 years.
wasted on Mmes Haebler, Haskil and
Uchida.
Dan Koren
> Incidentally, there is another first-rate Iberia
> on a single CD: Unwin's recording on Chandos.
>
a single CD).
abac...@att.net
> once more. One would have thought that the artist's death would
> elicit some sort of memorial issue, but I guess it's not going to
> happen.
For a number of years I corresponded with Block. He sent me most of
his recordings including Iberia.
To be perfectly honest, while there are many moments of great beauty in
his playing of Iberia, NOBODY can match ADR, especially in her earlier
versions. Her musicality, touch, technique are unique in these pieces.
BTW, we discussed many pianists and he expressed great admiration for
ADR
AB
abac...@att.net
you know damn well that there are commercial consideration involved..
however I do agree about Haebler and Uchida. Haskill was a great
artist, if Serkin was included then certainly she deserved the same
honor...
AB
alanwa...@aol.com
> dk
With great respect, quite a lot of you acquate recording with greatness
(as befits the group name) but I suspect it is less than half the
story. In fact it may be only 25 per cent of the story.
The other 75 per cent you have not heard because they were not
recorded. All of you should really get out more.
And while we are on this whatever happened to Aldo Parisot (cello),
apart from the teaching that is? Same thing as Joyce Hatto, probably.
sidoze
Well I will definitely let you know. I've been meaning to order it for
a long time, ever since hearing that little clip of her Beethoven
Tempest which I find very exciting and promising.
Re: mazurkas, I still don't understand what you see in Friedman, but to
each his own. Maybe they'll grow on me years down the road. Lately I've
been listening to the four mazurkas included in Testament's Young
Ashkenazy vol. 2, and I have to say that I really like those,
especially his treatment of 59/1.
sidoze
>
> Sanchez, DeLarrocha (your pick),
> Unwin, and Hiromi Okada (also on
> a single CD).
Dan, on which label is Okada's?
Alan Cooper
wrote:
>
>
>
A British-trained pianist in his early 40's whose particular
specialties seem to be Spanish music and the Tippett Sonatas. In
addition to his excellent Iberia, there is also a fine recital of
music by Joaquin Nin on Centaur. The pianist has a web site:
http://www.nujj.com/nick/ It seems a bit out of date, though, since
it doesn't mention his recent recording of works by Damase.
AC
Steve Emerson
"sidoze" <sid...@gmail.com> wrote:
> SG wrote:
> > > Right now I'm awaiting Yudina's Kiev concert
> >
> > Judging by what you wrote about Friedman, you'll truly hate this. You
> > will find it crude, vulgar even etc. (Please prove me wrong ( :)
> >
> > regards,
> > SG
>
> Well I will definitely let you know. I've been meaning to order it for
> a long time, ever since hearing that little clip of her Beethoven
> Tempest which I find very exciting and promising.
I don't know what this Kiev release includes, but there's a Yudina
Tempest via Russian Masters that is a delight.
SE.
Lenya Ryzhik
"This Kiev concert" normally refers to the recital that is on Russian
masters RM08 and TNC, is there any other?
Lenya
sidoze
I meant the one on TNC, which I ordered for $11 (great price!)
peter_s...@hotmail.com
Aldo Parisot (cello), apart from the teaching that is?"...............
Aldo Parisot as a teacher had a good deal of success and as a cellist
functioned quite nicely as a member of the Yale String Quartet. The
solo recordings really don't hold up all that well. If you can find
copies of the several LP's he set down for Overtone Records (139
Shelton Avenue, New Haven, Connecticut) of music by Mendelssohn,
Schumann, Debussy, Schubert and Chopin, or the Counterpoint (333 Sixth
Ave. New York) LP, CPT-569 of music by Bach and Kodaly, I think
you'll see what I mean.
Peter Schenkman
Tom Deacon
On 6/24/05 4:42 PM, in article 42bc7044$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Tom Deacon" <non...@yahoo.com <mailto:non...@yahoo.com> > wrote in message news:BEE1AE8C.4BFC%non...@yahoo.com <news:BEE1AE8C.4BFC%non...@yahoo.com> ...
>
> Not only does one ask whether there is anything Joyce Hatto cannot play, one
> is forced also to ask WHY we have not been enjoying her artistry for more of
> her 75 years.
Looking in the mirror perhaps?
You could have given her the CD's
wasted on Mmes Haebler, Haskil and
Uchida.
It would be typical of you, Koren, to see one artist’s work “rated” against another. A bit like a horse race, or a Miss America pageant.
It is not, however, my attitude. I welcome excellence wherever and whenever it rears its beautiful face.
Curiously enough, I was just reading that your sainted Monique Haas was, like Haskil, a pupil of Lazare Levy. According to a recent article in Le Monde de la Musique, their teacher felt that they shared much in common.
One thing they did NOT share in common, however, was fame. That the sainted Clara had in spades. And with good reason.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/24/05 4:45 PM, in article 42bc70e7$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net <mailto:amco...@nospamoptonline.net> > wrote in message news:q5oob15aqdovjfm5n...@4ax.com <news:q5oob15aqdovjfm5n...@4ax.com> ...
>
> Incidentally, there is another first-rate Iberia
> on a single CD: Unwin's recording on Chandos.
>
This is one of my top recommendations too.
>>Briefly, the Iberias I recommend are:
>>Sanchez, DeLarrocha (your pick),
>>Unwin, and Hiromi Okada (also on
a single CD).
>>I haven't heard Hatto's yet.
Since you haven’t or won’t hear Hamelin’s, your recommendations are worthless, in my not so humble opinion.
TD
gerrie...@cox.net
[SNIP long and wonderful tribute}
> I will desist before I do get stuck in the repetitive groove which I
> fear but, really, I do think she is something special.
>
> Kind regards,
> Alan M. Watkins
Alan, what a wonderful encomium to a truly great artist. I hope you
have sent a copy to Ms. Hatto.
I did write my thoughts on her Iberia in another rmcr thread, and have
written several times in the past on some of her recordings that I
have, which now number 13 (but my posts never received the 'attention'
that yours and Deacon's are now receiving - maybe because I write so
infrequently or, because this is a 'male stronghold').
I did recommend highly her Prokofiev Sonatas - 1 thru *8* - and
previously, her Chopin Sonatas, Liszt TEs, Mephisto Waltz, Brahms and
Rachmaninoff concertos, and very especially her "Encores" disc which
includes sparkling 'tidbits' of Moszkowski, Schumann-Liszt, Weber,
Rachmaninoff, Grieg, Beethoven and Szymanowski. Her Bax Symphonic
Variations (with the Guildford Philharmonc/Vernon Handley) is a tour de
force of a gigantic but little known, seldom heard work.
I endorse everything you say here (and have the said the same, in
different wording, here and on other forums) about her artistry.
So happy to see this *new* burst of interest.
Gerrie C
alanwa...@aol.com
What is most important, I think, is that we take what opportunities we
can to publicise an artist we clearly both believe in - I suspect
sometimes these things get "picked up", sometimes they do not.
I write this listening to a marvellous performance by JH of the
complete Rachmaninov transcriptions - her graded dynamics in the
L'Arlesienne Menuet have to be heard! I wonder - does any pianist
today programme these transcriptions in recital?
I heard the Bax when it came out on LP but am looking forward to what I
am sure will be better sound - I agree utterly about the Rachmaninov
concertos but have not yet heard the other recordings you mention.
Let us just be grateful that our artist, admittedly late in her life,
has had the opportunity to set down for posterity the results of a
lifetime of study.
Coming soon, by the way, will be the Grieg and Schumann Concertos
together with what I am told is an astonishing performance of the
Litolff Scherzo.
alanwa...@aol.com
PS: I have just heard JH play the Rachmaninov transcription of Flight
of the Bumble Bee.
I always thought the composer's own interpretation was pretty
astonishing but I am now astonished, again. Fantastic dexterity,
touch, dynamics in 1:07
What a remarkable pianist.
Gerard
>
> For a number of years I corresponded with Block. He sent me most of
> his recordings including Iberia.
> To be perfectly honest, while there are many moments of great beauty
> in his playing of Iberia, NOBODY can match ADR, especially in her
> earlier versions. Her musicality, touch, technique are unique in
> these pieces. BTW, we discussed many pianists and he expressed great
> admiration for ADR
>
In which case I would like to know: who is ADR?
Dan Koren
"Gerard" <ghend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42bd1a6f$0$56990$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...
Alicia DeLarrocha.
dk
Dan Koren
<non...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:BEE22ABE.4C9C%non...@yahoo.com...
>
> Since you haven't
I have, on April 29th in San Francisco.
> or won't hear Hamelin's,
Where did you get such an idea? I said I
was not going to spend $40 on buying the
CD's -- not that I wouldn't hear it. I'll
get a chance to hear it somehow, and if
worse comes to worst (or best depending
on one's point of view) I may be able to
pick one out of the cut-out bins in a few
weeks.
> your recommendations are worthless,
> in my not so humble opinion.
Even your antlers have opinions.
dk
Christopher Webber
>I heard the Bax when it came out on LP but am looking forward to what I
>am sure will be better sound - I agree utterly about the Rachmaninov
>concertos but have not yet heard the other recordings you mention.
Alas, when I last spoke to the Concert Artist management, the Bax
reissue (Sonatas 1+4, and two shorter pieces) had been postponed
indefinitely.
--
___________________________
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.zarzuela.net
Tom Deacon
On 6/25/05 3:35 AM, in article
1119684934.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,
"alanwa...@aol.com" <alanwa...@aol.com> wrote:
I raved and raved about her MSND in another place, but was largely
disbelieved.
> I heard the Bax when it came out on LP but am looking forward to what I
> am sure will be better sound - I agree utterly about the Rachmaninov
> concertos but have not yet heard the other recordings you mention.
>
> Let us just be grateful that our artist, admittedly late in her life,
> has had the opportunity to set down for posterity the results of a
> lifetime of study.
>
> Coming soon, by the way, will be the Grieg and Schumann Concertos
> together with what I am told is an astonishing performance of the
> Litolff Scherzo.
The Schumann Concerto has just arrived accompanied by the Concerto without
Orchestra, the second sonata, and Kinderszenen.
Perhaps they have decided to couple the Schumann and Grieg differently?
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/25/05 4:49 AM, in article 42bd1a6f$0$56990$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl,
"Gerard" <ghend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Poor Arri.
He meant Alicia De Larrocha.
Actually the short form is AdL.
Don't pick on him.
TD
>
>
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:42bd1a6f$0$56990$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl:
I would venture to guess Alicia de Larrocha. (Yes, I know the initials are
off, which is why I'm guessing.)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
abac...@att.net
Alicia de Laroccha (sp) sorry about that!!
abac...@att.net
> > In which case I would like to know: who is ADR?
>
> Poor Arri.
>
> He meant Alicia De Larrocha.
>
> Actually the short form is AdL.
>
> Don't pick on him.
I've noticed that you have a "short" term memory deficit. I am sure my
"form" is better than yours:-))
AB
> TD
> >
> >
abac...@att.net
> > In which case I would like to know: who is ADR?
>
> Poor Arri.
>
> He meant Alicia De Larrocha.
>
> Actually the short form is AdL.
>
> Don't pick on him.
I've noticed that you have a "short" term memory deficit. I am sure my
alanwa...@aol.com
It may be a "new" performance. I will try and find out for you and
post it on here.
I know that she has re-recorded the last Beethoven sonata for when she
made the original she was not feeling very well and felt the
performance was "under par". I had not noticed that myself:):)
I think you liked her touch and dynamics in Iberia in which case, if
the other recordings do not disappoint you, I would strongly urge you
and anyone else "taken" with this artist to get her recording of the
complete Debussy Preludes (later and better recorded than the selection
on her French music disc) and in No 24 simply some of the most
phenomenal piano playing I have ever encountered by anyone, famous or
not. Used to it being frequently lost in the tidal wash of pedal it
may come as a shock. You can hear every note.
This is music created for a pianist like her, in my opinion. And no,
there isn't anything she cannot play. I can assure you that you can
always take the technique for granted as I think you may notice in the
Etudes and in the Godowsky.
One of the slightly sad things, perhaps, is that people have to work so
hard (and I have looked up the posts of Gerrie and acknowledge her
great contribution to this) to make her well known although Music Web
must be given full credit for reviewing many of her recordings and
doing links to fascinating articles. But you, of all people, will know
that if they don't get in the shops and do not get widely
reviewed..........
I do not know whether Fanfare have mentioned any of them but, so far as
I understand, there has been complete silence from The Gramophone. I
checked their index for reviews before posting this but it came up with
"no results." No real surprise there, then, which is why I stopped
buying it a very long time ago. Alas, Burnett James and Records and
Recording are not around these days to fight her corner (or similar
corners) but there is no doubt that your post will help, based as it is
on a far wider experience of pianists and pianistic recordings than I
have.
As I say, I mostly can't do "comparisons" and am every time going only
with my ears but if you liked her in the Iberia and could see what she
was getting at I think you'd like the Debussy. Being a matter of
soronity achieved through touch and dynamics, in my opinion, it's
absolutely "made" for her. And there's the matter of that left hand,
of course, particularly but not exclusively in La Cathedrale engloutie.
Absolutely no clanging....I promise. No clanging, as previously
noted, in Pictures at an Exhibition either, not even in the Great Gate.
What was that you wrote? You'd have to have a heart of stone? In the
Debussy I doubt you will get further than the opening bars of Danseuses
de Delphes before you succumb but maybe we will see. It's down to
Debussy, of course, and also his interpreter.....it does not mean, of
course, that you will necessarily like the manner of interpretation but
I feel certain you will acknowledge the certainty of her technique.
sidoze
can play Chopin IMO. You make the Debussy sound wonderful Alan, thanks,
I'll get that one along with the Albeniz.
alanwa...@aol.com
She has recorded everything Chopin wrote. Try CACD 9116-2 for the
Mazurkas. If you want a study in rubato this might be a good starting
place. As Mikuli said: "The right hand can be free but the left hand
has to keep strict time."
If you want your money back let me know (one poster only) and watch out
for the occasionally repeated staccato notes.
It may possibly be one of the reasons why the Chopin people in Poland
invited her to Poland to play Chopin.
You decide. Please post either way as to whether she gets the 3/4 or
sometimes 3/8 and whether she is a Chopin pianist or not.
If you do get the recording and if it helps you could start with with
No 15 A Minor Op 17 No 4 (chords in sixths and somewhat depressive)
and just let me know if you want your money back.
I cannot say she is the best in such wonderful music but I suspect she
is up there with whoever the best are.
Tom Deacon
On 6/25/05 6:23 PM, in article
1119738225....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"alanwa...@aol.com" <alanwa...@aol.com> wrote:
> I cannot say she is the best in such wonderful music but I suspect she
> is up there with whoever the best are.
Having been involved in making such decisions, Alan, in a rather massive
commercial project, I think that it is best to say quite simply that she
plays the music magnificently.
The comparisons between one artist and another in familiar music such as
Chopin Mazurkas or whatever are always invidious. Artists themselves detest
such comparisons; they are, in fact, the purview of places like this, where
people want to slice a spring onion into a thousand little strips and then
declare one piece tastes better than the others.
So be it.
I am personally quite happy to state simply and plainly that Joyce Hatto is
a marvelous musician and a gifted pianist and that her interpretations
rarely leave anything to be desired. She has the three "t"s, touch, tone,
and temperament.
And a sense of rhythm, of course, and considerable freedom of expression
between the two hands, as do all complete pianists.
TD
gerrie...@cox.net
Beautifully said, even if I *don't* have to say so - myself.
GC
Dan Koren
>
>
> I am personally quite happy to state simply and plainly that Joyce Hatto
> is
> a marvelous musician and a gifted pianist and that her interpretations
> rarely leave anything to be desired. She has the three "t"s, touch, tone,
> and temperament.
>
> And a sense of rhythm, of course, and considerable freedom of expression
> between the two hands, as do all complete pianists.
>
You also stated, implicitely, that she
was not worthy of inclusion in your
collection of great pianists.
Actions speak louder than words.
dk
sidoze
money back though, that won't be necessary. I look forward to hearing
her.
alanwa...@aol.com
It is always difficult to recommend by distance but I don't think you
will feel let down. I hope not, anyway. Beautiful playing and when
you hear this music you are always reminded, I think, of how terribly
wistful some of these pieces are.
Josep Vilanova
>
> The GPE was completed about eight years ago and is a finite object.
>
Was that long ago? I suddenly felt quite old.
j
Alan Cooper
wrote:
>> Actions speak louder than words.
>
>Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put words in
>someone else's mouth.
>
>Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you can
>sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
"Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
mouth instead of words ;-)
I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
AC
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 9:54 AM, in article BEE47215.A57E%josepv...@hotmail.com,
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The GPE was completed about eight years ago and is a finite object.
>>
>
> Was that long ago? I suddenly felt quite old.
Not as old as I felt after producing it!
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 12:17 PM, in article l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com,
"Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:00:09 -0400, Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Actions speak louder than words.
>>
>> Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put words in
>> someone else's mouth.
>>
>> Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you can
>> sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
>
> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
> mouth instead of words ;-)
Not sure about that.
But I would even eat a fish to see the Koren "Great Pianists of the
California Coast". The first chuckle might come with those tinker-toy Chopin
etudes he has been flogging in this place of late.
> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
I would doubt that you will be disappointed with either, although they are
quite different. And both different from AdL in most parameters.
TD
Bob Lombard
"Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com...
Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are holding
your breath. Be careful with that.
bl
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 12:59 PM, in article 42bededa$1...@spool9-east.superfeed.net, "Bob
Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote:
>
> "Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:00:09 -0400, Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Actions speak louder than words.
>>>
>>> Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put words
>>> in
>>> someone else's mouth.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you can
>>> sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
>>
>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
>> mouth instead of words ;-)
>>
>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
>>
>> AC
>
> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are holding
> your breath. Be careful with that.
Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
TD
Dan Koren
>
> On 6/25/05 11:45 PM, in article 42be24ef$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
You have -- implicitely.
Any pianist not included in GPOC
must be deemed to not be or have
been as great as Mme. Haebler.
> My admiration for Joyce Hatto has nothing
> whatsoever to do with the GPE. It is of
> recent vintage by virtue of the recent
> arrival of sixty odd CDs worth of her
> recordings.
>
> The GPE was completed about eight
> years ago and is a finite object.
>
What a convoluted way of confessing
you do/did not watch the pianistic
scene as closely as would be normal
to expect from someone who claims to
be an authority on piano music and
performance. You aren't even familiar
with some of the top artists in your
own country.
dk
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> "Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:00:09 -0400, Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Actions speak louder than words.
>>>
>>> Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put
>>> words in someone else's mouth.
>>>
>>>Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you
>>>can sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
>>
>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
>> mouth instead of words ;-)
>>
>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
>
> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are
> holding your breath. Be careful with that.
Maybe it *is* that fish. Can't you smell it?
Steve Emerson
Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
> >> mouth instead of words ;-)
> >>
> >> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
> >> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
> >>
> >> AC
> >
> > Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are holding
> > your breath. Be careful with that.
>
> Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
Uh, baited is spelled right. It's just the wrong word.
SE.
Bob Harper
merely spelling), it wouldn't do any good.
Bob Harper
alanwa...@aol.com
> > Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
> >
> > TD
> >
> Unless it were to be better than most (i.e., able to detect usage, not
> merely spelling), it wouldn't do any good.
>
> Bob Harper
Unless the spell-check is aware of Elizabethan English I doubt it will
help anyone.
>From the 14th century verb bate meaning to deprive, shorten or lessen.
"With bated breath" first thought to have been used by Shakespeare in
Merchant of Venice, 1596 or thereabouts.
Kynde regardef,
Alan M. Watkins
Dan Koren
news:Xns96818219BE2...@207.217.125.201...
> "Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:42bededa$1...@spool9-east.superfeed.net:
>
>> "Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:00:09 -0400, Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Actions speak louder than words.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put
>>>> words in someone else's mouth.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you
>>>>can sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
>>>
>>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
>>> mouth instead of words ;-)
>>>
>>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
>>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
>>
>> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are
>> holding your breath. Be careful with that.
>
> Maybe it *is* that fish. Can't you smell it?
>
You think the Deacon feeds
himself on Gefuellte Fisch?
dk
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 3:24 PM, in article 42bf...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
<dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> "Tom Deacon" <non...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:BEE41F19.4DF5%non...@yahoo.com...
>>
>> On 6/25/05 11:45 PM, in article 42be24ef$1...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
>> <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Tom Deacon" <non...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:BEE362E6.4D98%non...@yahoo.com...
>>>>
>>>> I am personally quite happy to state simply and plainly that Joyce Hatto
>>>> is
>>>> a marvelous musician and a gifted pianist and that her interpretations
>>>> rarely leave anything to be desired. She has the three "t"s, touch,
>>>> tone,
>>>> and temperament.
>>>>
>>>> And a sense of rhythm, of course, and considerable freedom of expression
>>>> between the two hands, as do all complete pianists.
>>>
>>>
>>> You also stated, implicitely, that she
>>> was not worthy of inclusion in your
>>> collection of great pianists.
>>
>> I never made any such statement.
>
>
> You have -- implicitely.
>
> Any pianist not included in GPOC
> must be deemed to not be or have
> been as great as Mme. Haebler.
I can now see why you need a guide to get through the supermarket. I imagine
you also use Consumer's Report to select your ketchup.
>> My admiration for Joyce Hatto has nothing
>> whatsoever to do with the GPE. It is of
>> recent vintage by virtue of the recent
>> arrival of sixty odd CDs worth of her
>> recordings.
>>
>> The GPE was completed about eight
>> years ago and is a finite object.
>>
>
>
> What a convoluted way of confessing
> you do/did not watch the pianistic
> scene as closely as would be normal
> to expect from someone who claims to
> be an authority on piano music and
> performance.
You make a grave error in considering me to be an authority on anything.
Outside of myself, that is, upon which I am the only known authority.
> You aren't even familiar
> with some of the top artists in your
> own country.
I try my best to avoid parochial concerns.
There are many fine Canadian pianists I would place above the odd-ball ones
you have brought to the table on this forum. And still....
Implicit in your remarks, of course, is a vain attempt to establish your own
credentials as an "authority".
I think you will have to do more than try to destroy any credibility I may
have acquired over the years if you want to be considered as an authority
yourself.
For starters you might try on a new set of ears. Your hearing resembles that
of Helen Keller, poor dear. You seem still to enjoy sight, which is a
blessing, but the hearing thing is really shot to hell.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 4:42 PM, in article
emersn-3B52EB....@typhoon.sonic.net, "Steve Emerson"
<eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote:
My spell-check corrects everything, Steve. It even corrects grammar.
Is yours selective?
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 5:55 PM, in article nLCdnXinr9q...@comcast.com, "Bob
Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
Entourage seems to do very little of anything.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 6:13 PM, in article 42bf...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
<dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyfl@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Not bloody likely!
I leave that to the seagulls.
TD
Steve Emerson
Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 6/26/05 4:42 PM, in article
> emersn-3B52EB....@typhoon.sonic.net, "Steve Emerson"
> <eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <BEE46818.4E25%non...@yahoo.com>,
> > Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
> >>>> mouth instead of words ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
> >>>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
> >>>>
> >>>> AC
> >>>
> >>> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are
> >>> holding
> >>> your breath. Be careful with that.
> >>
> >> Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
> >
> > Uh, baited is spelled right. It's just the wrong word.
>
> My spell-check corrects everything, Steve. It even corrects grammar.
You mean the one you don't have in Entourage? My Entourage has
spellcheck btw and I bet yours does too. I don't know whether it
addresses grammar. Even MS's free app, Outlook Express, had spellcheck.
> Is yours selective?
AFAIK the only app I have that claims to deal with grammar is Word. I
have that function turned off, so I guess the answer is yes.
However, just for you, I turned it on for a moment because I didn't see
quite how it would catch the problem with "baited breath," which really
is a diction malfunction more than a grammar one. Your sentence sailed
through.
--The highly offtopic SE.
Dan Koren
>
> My spell-check corrects everything,
> Steve. It even corrects grammar.
>
Does it also correct preconceived ideas?
dk
Brendan R. Wehrung
"Bob Lombard" (thorste...@vermontel.net) writes:
> "Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:l6ltb1ps99ik0qt13...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:00:09 -0400, Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Actions speak louder than words.
>>>
>>>Indeed. So why don't you act, instead of speaking? Or trying to put words
>>>in
>>>someone else's mouth.
>>>
>>>Perhaps you would like to assemble your own GPE. And then see if you can
>>>sell it. We all wait with baited breath.
>>
>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
>> mouth instead of words ;-)
>>
>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
>>
>> AC
>
> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are holding
> your breath. Be careful with that.
>
> bl
>
Naw, he knew from the start that something was fishy...
Brendan
--
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 11:05 PM, in article 42bf...@news.meer.net, "Dan Koren"
<dank...@yahoo.com> wrote:
No, it is highly sensitive about the sanctity of the person.
However, it does correct - and at lightening speed - any notions that Igor
Zhukov is a great pianist. It automatically starts flashing and causing a
near breakdown of the entire system. And then it tortures you with some of
his glassy-toned Tchaikovsky, just to make the point perfectly clear.
Selectively smart is Entourage.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/26/05 10:46 PM, in article
emersn-7B1A5F....@typhoon.sonic.net, "Steve Emerson"
<eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article <BEE4C6B9.4E63%non...@yahoo.com>,
> Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/05 4:42 PM, in article
>> emersn-3B52EB....@typhoon.sonic.net, "Steve Emerson"
>> <eme...@nospamsonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <BEE46818.4E25%non...@yahoo.com>,
>>> Tom Deacon <non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> "Baited breath," Tom? Maybe you're looking to put a fish in your
>>>>>> mouth instead of words ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've ordered Hatto's Iberia and Hamelin's from England, and look
>>>>>> forward to hearing them. Thanks for the recommendations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AC
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, Tom, you maybe meant 'bated' breath? It means that you 'all' are
>>>>> holding
>>>>> your breath. Be careful with that.
>>>>
>>>> Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
>>>
>>> Uh, baited is spelled right. It's just the wrong word.
>>
>> My spell-check corrects everything, Steve. It even corrects grammar.
>
> You mean the one you don't have in Entourage? My Entourage has
> spellcheck btw and I bet yours does too. I don't know whether it
> addresses grammar. Even MS's free app, Outlook Express, had spellcheck.
Is yours a MAC?
>
>> Is yours selective?
>
> AFAIK the only app I have that claims to deal with grammar is Word. I
> have that function turned off, so I guess the answer is yes.
You mean you prefer to write ungrammatically?
Personally I have the worst time just correcting American spelling of words
like colour, which is ALWAYS underlined with little red squigglies, unless I
spell it, ugh, color.
> However, just for you, I turned it on for a moment because I didn't see
> quite how it would catch the problem with "baited breath," which really
> is a diction malfunction more than a grammar one. Your sentence sailed
> through.
Damned Microsoft. They know from nothing.
TD
Rob Barnett
words
like colour, which is ALWAYS underlined with little red squigglies, unless I
spell it, ugh, color."
There is a simple way round this - if that's what you want.
Go to Tools menu
Click Language (2nd down)
Click 'set language'
Click 'English (United Kingdom)'
Click 'Default'
Click 'Yes'
From then on all documents you create will be spell-checked and
grammar-checked (the latter, after a fashion, I am afraid) in UK English not
US English.
Hope this helps.
Yours in anorakly speaking
Rob
Rob Barnett
Editor, Classical Music on the Web
www.musicweb.uk.net
Editor, British Music Society Newsletter
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 9:20 AM, in article
d9oufj$h9j$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com, "Rob Barnett"
<Rob.Ba...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> You said that you have "the worst time just correcting American spelling of
> words
> like colour, which is ALWAYS underlined with little red squigglies, unless I
> spell it, ugh, color."
>
> There is a simple way round this - if that's what you want.
>
> Go to Tools menu
>
> Click Language (2nd down)
>
> Click 'set language'
>
> Click 'English (United Kingdom)'
>
> Click 'Default'
>
> Click 'Yes'
>
> From then on all documents you create will be spell-checked and
> grammar-checked (the latter, after a fashion, I am afraid) in UK English not
> US English.
>
> Hope this helps.
It helps. And I know about it.
But I resent having to spell things the way Amurricans do, when I really
want to spell them the way Canadians do.
In fact, Rob, Canada has its own idiosyncrasies of language and spelling. We
really don't like being told how to spell or pronounce any words which may
or may not have come down to us via the Old or New Country.
I insist upon saying schedule as though it began with an "sh" rather than a
"sk", for example. And I prefer my "our" words to "or" words, colour, honour
and so on. But there are many British expressions which I simply cannot
accept, as you can imagine.
TD
Bob Harper
> Personally I have the worst time just correcting American spelling of
> words like colour, which is ALWAYS underlined with little red
> squigglies, unless I spell it, ugh, color.
>
You should be able to reset the spellchecker to British (Canadian)
English, in which case 'color' would have the red squiggles, not 'colour'.
>
> Damned Microsoft. They know from nothing.
No argument there; that's why I use a Mac.
Bob Harper
>
> TD
>
Bob Harper
personal language, you'll just have to accept red squiggles now and again :)
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:avmdnT7B_c-...@comcast.com:
> Well, forget what I wrote a minute or two ago. If you insist on your
> personal language, you'll just have to accept red squiggles now and
> again :)
Sounds like a user problem to me.
Peter Lemken
>
> No argument there; that's why I use a Mac.
And that's why the deke doesn't use a Mac, or Linux, or BSD.
Alternatives are /evil/, they require an active thought process.
Peter Lemken
Berlin
--
Was schlechten Geschmack so berauschend macht, ist die aristokratische
Wonne der Verärgerung.
-- Charles Baudelaire
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 11:51 AM, in article avmdnT_B_c8...@comcast.com, "Bob
Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
> No argument there; that's why I use a Mac.
So do I. A G5 Dual Processor.
But Microsoft seems to make all the software, even for the MAC.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 12:20 PM, in article 3ian9rF...@individual.net, "Peter
Lemken" <spam.f...@buerotiger.de> wrote:
> Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Tom Deacon wrote:
>>>
>>> Damned Microsoft. They know from nothing.
>>
>> No argument there; that's why I use a Mac.
>
> And that's why the deke doesn't use a Mac, or Linux, or BSD.
>
> Alternatives are /evil/, they require an active thought process.
As usual, Peter is wrong.
I do use a Mac, thank God.
TD
Steve Emerson
> >>>> Why doesn't Entourage have spell-check?
> >>>
> >>> Uh, baited is spelled right. It's just the wrong word.
> >>
> >> My spell-check corrects everything, Steve. It even corrects grammar.
> >
> > You mean the one you don't have in Entourage? My Entourage has
> > spellcheck btw and I bet yours does too. I don't know whether it
> > addresses grammar. Even MS's free app, Outlook Express, had spellcheck.
>
> Is yours a MAC?
Yes. In Entourage 11.1, Spelling is the third item under Tools. Same
thing in Outlook Express.
> >> Is yours selective?
> >
> > AFAIK the only app I have that claims to deal with grammar is Word. I
> > have that function turned off, so I guess the answer is yes.
>
>
> You mean you prefer to write ungrammatically?
No. So there must be some other reason...
For those who find it useful, fine. I'm just glad that, after
interminable research, I was able to turn it off. With some of Word's
other fussy meddlings, that's not possible.
Meanwhile, one's collection of manual typewriters grows.
SE.
Josep Vilanova
fascination for the particular phenomenon of that seemingly great pianist
who appears to be virtually unknown. I have searched both amazon.co.uk and
amazon.com and haven't found any of her recordings. If she is that good (and
I don't doubt her talents for a moment), why is she not better known? Did
she gave up her career to raise children, to teach? There should be a
reason.
josep
On 24/6/05 5:35 pm, in article BEE1AE8C.4BFC%non...@yahoo.com, "Tom Deacon"
<non...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There are truly extraordinary times for the Albeniz' masterpiece Iberia.
>
> First we have had the revelatory remastering of AdL's stereo Hispavox
> recording of the work from the early 1960s.
>
> Then came MAH's inspired reading for Hyperion, setting a new technical
> standard for this work in my opinion.
>
> And now, from an unlikely source, I would say without any prejudice to her,
> we have the complete Iberia on ONE CD from the English pianist Joyce Hatto.
>
> One wonders whether there is anything this fine pianist cannot play. Her
> recent recordings have included the complete Beethoven sonatas, the complete
> Prokofiev sonatas, the complete Rachmaninoff concerti, everything Chopin
> ever wrote, and so on and so on. Even the Chopin-Godowsky Etudes, which I
> await from Crotchet with keen anticipation. Certainly her reading of Iberia,
> more subdued and perhaps less incisive - although that may be the quality of
> her Steinway rather than her playing - than MAH's, but no less technically
> expert, reveals a complete grasp of the idiom as well as an intellectual
> grasp of the music. Her reading in, for example, the Fete Dieu, a
> notoriously treacherous piece requiring a command of the layering of musical
> information, is both eloquent AND unstressed. Her rhetorical pacing of the
> melody in the central episode is a model of control and sensitivity. If you
> are not moved at this kind of playing, you are made of stone, I would
> suggest. Strangely, her intellectual grasp of this music reminds me of my
> recent experience of the music with Yvonne Loriod.
>
> Not only does one ask whether there is anything Joyce Hatto cannot play, one
> is forced also to ask WHY we have not been enjoying her artistry for more of
> her 75 years. A student of Cortot, Joyce Hatto still has much to offer us in
> a wide range of music.
>
> So, another high water mark for Iberia.
>
> What remains to be done? Well, I would like the Loriod to see the light of
> day again. And surely Michel Block deserves to be reissued by French EMI, as
> does the Querol set, which, however, is not really that good. And, perhaps
> for completeness, EMI should dig up the mono version Alicia de Larrocha made
> in the mid 1950s which was issued in the USA by Columbia Records.
>
> In the meantime, it has to be said that about one hundred years from the
> date of its creation, Albeniz' Iberia is in very good hands. Perhaps it will
> no longer be regarded as 12 postcards from Spain, but as one of the greatest
> pieces of music ever written for the piano. Both Joyce Hatto and Marc-Andre
> Hamelin have shown us that, albeit in quite different ways.
>
> TD
>
>
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 4:13 PM, in article BEE61C97.A6A1%josepv...@hotmail.com,
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've read all the postings in this thread with some extra-musical
> fascination for the particular phenomenon of that seemingly great pianist
> who appears to be virtually unknown. I have searched both amazon.co.uk and
> amazon.com and haven't found any of her recordings. If she is that good (and
> I don't doubt her talents for a moment), why is she not better known? Did
> she gave up her career to raise children, to teach? There should be a
> reason.
There is always a reason for things. But I am not privy to the answer for
the one you are asking.
Moreover, it seems to me fairly irrelevant at this stage.
Ms. Hatto is an elderly woman with extraordinary gifts. Those gifts are now,
thanks to her labours in the recording studio, coming to light for all of us
to enjoy.
Of course this throws a monkey-wrench into our notions of who is up and who
is down, who is in and who is out, who is hot and who is not. A good thing,
I say, as we tend to be extraordinarily smug and self-satisfied in our
limited knowledge of the musical world.
Before these latest recordings have come to light on CD, and it has only
been very recently, Ms. Hatto was known to me only in connection with the
music of the composer Arnold Bax. I am sure that others rejoiced in this
level of ignorance, and that includes the benighted Dan Koren. He has been
far too busy fantasizing about the fingers of his latest oriental discovery
to worry about the recordings of an elder stateswoman of the industry who
had probably never played for him either in Israel or on the California
Coast. Or, as a matter of fact, in Las Vegas, the scene of his epiphany with
our beauteous Canadian pianist.
So, let's not try to delve into the "reason" or "reasons" why, Josep, and
just enjoy.
It would seem that we are to be further entranced by the Granados Goyescas,
Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, and Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis in the near
future.
As I asked before, what piano music does Joyce Hatto NOT play? Boulez,
perhaps? Or Dutilleux's sonata? Messiaen's Twenty Contemplations?
TD
Josep Vilanova
That can be something. I wonder why she is not reviewed in Gramophone (they
do seem to care for British performers). I haven't heard anything of her.
Where would you recommend me to start (a part from Iberia, as I have more
than enough recordings of that piece and am still digesting MAH)?
j
On 27/6/05 10:28 pm, in article BEE5E7AA.4F4A%non...@yahoo.com, "Tom Deacon"
alanwa...@aol.com
Josep Vilanova wrote:
> I've read all the postings in this thread with some extra-musical
> fascination for the particular phenomenon of that seemingly great pianist
> who appears to be virtually unknown. I have searched both amazon.co.uk and
> amazon.com and haven't found any of her recordings. If she is that good (and
> I don't doubt her talents for a moment), why is she not better known? Did
> she gave up her career to raise children, to teach? There should be a
> reason.
>
Firstly, yes she is that good (in my opinion). Type Joyce Hatto into
google and come up with an interview, I think.
I cannot say why she (and probably others) are not better known, no
doubt you will all come up with explanations. It took Sergio
Fiorentino a while to get off the ground, as well, and latterly he did
so only thanks to Ernst Lumpe.
She is still teaching, sometimes sent pupils from "famous" artists
mentioned on this group to help them with technical problems.
Other than that, I cannot say, except (if I may) to say that you can
drop the "seemingly" from "seemingly great pianist."
Let us put it another way: you are an agent in 2000 and something. You
go to a major international record company and say: "I have this GREAT
pianist."
I suspect that when they discover your great pianist is in her
Seventies you will promptly be shown the door although she was also a
great pianist in her 20s and 30s before the A&R man was even thought
of.
Who knows? Not me.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
alanwa...@aol.com
She was a great artist in the Wigmore Hall, London, in 1950 something
and she is still a great artist today, in my opinion.
As previously mentioned have a listen to both sets of the Chopin Etudes
mostly recorded on her 75th birthday. Worse, she is now 77.
And, no, she isn't going to rise out of the sea in a wet T-shirt
either. Which pretty much rules her out of lots of things today, I
would have thought.
She has always been famous. It is just that many people today are only
judged "famous" by a recording I would suggest. Her recordings have
come late and similarly her name, perhaps?
Paul Goldstein
>It would seem that we are to be further entranced by the Granados Goyescas,
>Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, and Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis in the near
>future.
If Joyce Hatto can breathe life into the Ludus Tonais, then she must be the Lord
God Herself.
alanwa...@aol.com
On a technical note, Joyce has never played in America. She was warned
many years ago by the British Foreign Office that if she had a then
"Communist" stamp on her British passport she would not be admitted to
America.
But as her then agent, the late, great Ms Tillett put it (on behalf of
all musicians everywhere): "Poland have asked for you, dear, but
America have not....."
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 5:49 PM, in article BEE63316.A6D2%josepv...@hotmail.com,
"Josep Vilanova" <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Do you mean that she will do a recording of 'Gaspard de la Nuit' aged 75?
> That can be something.
Actually, it doesn't surprise me. Her flexibility and stamina, not to say
her pianistic imagination have all proven themselves to be perfectly intact.
> I wonder why she is not reviewed in Gramophone (they
> do seem to care for British performers). I haven't heard anything of her.
I used to wonder too. But I have given up both wondering and trying to
figure out what the Gramophone is trying to do.
> Where would you recommend me to start (a part from Iberia, as I have more
> than enough recordings of that piece and am still digesting MAH)?
If you like Rachmaninoff, you might start with the Transcriptions disc. The
MSND is as good as it is possible to play that piece. That is where I
started, as a matter of fact.
I am also dying to hear the Chopin-Godowsky Etudes - all 52 or whatever of
those pieces - which she apparently performs "humourously", for fun, as it
were.
That might give you an immediate comparison with MAH and Grante and others.
I feel certain that she will expose David Saperton as the stick he has
always been in this music.
And then there are the Chopin recordings. I have just listened to the 75th
anniversary Etudes. You might also start there. If you like the credentials
on display - and how can you not - you can proceed with complete abandon.
But be careful. You may suffer at the bank.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 6/27/05 6:02 PM, in article d9pt0...@drn.newsguy.com, "Paul Goldstein"
<Paul_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
But Paul, how would you recognize Her? You're not a believer.
TD
Raymond Hall
There is an English Australian option frequently available. I haven't seen
an English Canadfian one. I think you are automatically lumped in with the
Doodles. Or the frogs.
<g>
Ray H
Taree (aus Portsmuff, as spoken in Hampshire)
alanwa...@aol.com
Oh dear! If you liked the Chopin Etudes of a 75-year-old goodness
knows what you will think of Godowsky's take on them.
No doubt you will let us know:):)
Yes, it was just for fun.
Consummate artist I think. Better late than never, perhaps.
Which is not to mention the Debussy Preludes (2001). Start at the end:
Feux d'artifice (she was only in her early 70's then).
I do believe you are beginning to get hooked. A special lady to me.
See what you think.
Re Chopin Etudes: that's right, you can actually hear the music. You
know why that is and so do I.
Dan Koren
> Amurricans do, when I really want to spell
> them the way Canadians do.
>
Then take a stroll from the washroom to the
parkade. You will feel better.
dk
Brendan R. Wehrung
Do light a candle rather than curse the darkness--use somebody else's.
There ought to be word processing programs that include "foreign" language
dictionaries.
I use Word Perfect, formerly owned by Canadians too, and still based there.
Brendan
--
Dan Koren
news:d9ql1u$bqt$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>
>
> Do light a candle rather than curse the
> darkness--use somebody else's.
>
> There ought to be word processing programs
> that include "foreign" language dictionaries.
>
> I use Word Perfect, formerly owned by Canadians
> too, and still based there.
>
How does it spell 'bankruptcy'?
dk
Brendan R. Wehrung
You're right, it could be better, accepting American spelling, but giving
British alternatives in the correction list (eg. colour) where they are
not in the US one, and Bankruptsy as spelled above, with no alternaitive.
Brendan
--
Matthew B. Tepper
indeed on my computers, so I'd appreciate it if somebody else would answer
this request. If I were to try one or two CDs of this pianist's music
(probably order via Musicweb's links), which should they be?
Thanks in advance.
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:1120066629....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> I've got both DK and TD killfiled, so this thread has looked very scrappy
>> indeed on my computers, so I'd appreciate it if somebody else would answer
>> this request. If I were to try one or two CDs of this pianist's music
>> (probably order via Musicweb's links), which should they be?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> For the "lighter" fare, try:
>
> Encore! An anthology of Recital Encores - CACD-9168-2
>
> For the "heavier":
>
> Prokofiev: The Piano Sonatas - CACD-9121-2 - 9122-2
Thanks. What about the concerto recordings? Is the orchestra stinky, or
acceptable? I don't expect it to be Reiner/CSO-ish.
alanwa...@aol.com
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> gerrie...@cox.net appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:1120066629....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> >> I've got both DK and TD killfiled, so this thread has looked very scrappy
> >> indeed on my computers, so I'd appreciate it if somebody else would answer
> >> this request. If I were to try one or two CDs of this pianist's music
> >> (probably order via Musicweb's links), which should they be?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.
> >
> > For the "lighter" fare, try:
> >
> > Encore! An anthology of Recital Encores - CACD-9168-2
> >
> > For the "heavier":
> >
> > Prokofiev: The Piano Sonatas - CACD-9121-2 - 9122-2
>
> Thanks. What about the concerto recordings? Is the orchestra stinky, or
> acceptable? I don't expect it to be Reiner/CSO-ish.
Firstly, for the music try Chopin Etudes 75th anniversary and the
Debussy Preludes.
I am not probably not qualified to say but I do not think the orchestra
"stinky" in her concerto recordings and in fact in the Brahms 1/2 and
the Rachmaninov 1-4 plus Paganini I think they do rather well. In
Chopin PC1 I think the orchestral playing in the slow movement some of
the best I have heard.
She mostly has the same conductor, Rene Kohler. And, here is an odd
thing. Unless I am much mistaken both are listening to one another
which, over 40 years in this business, always comes as a pleasant
surprise. Mr Smetacek and Adrian Boult were rather good at this as
well but I have a feeling it may be close to a lost art.
Mr Kohler originally started out as a pianist and was also a pupil of
Raoul Koczalski but unfortunately his career as a childhood prodigy was
cut out by Weimar events which I feel sure all will understand.
Much of his family was lost in concentration camps and Mr Kohler spent
an inordinate amount of time in Russian labour camps, too long some may
think.
He died a couple of years ago in his eighties. Judgments of orchestras
will, of course, be a personal thing but I would start with the slow
movement of Chopin PC1 if forced to one position.
Caveat emptor: I am notoriously unreliable in such matters thinking
that the most committed Boheme I have heard is that conducted by
Samosud in 1956 and sung in Russian. Buyer beware indeed!
But honest, guv, I do think they are listening to each other.
Alan Cooper
<oy@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Thanks. What about the concerto recordings? Is the orchestra stinky, or
>acceptable? I don't expect it to be Reiner/CSO-ish.
I can't recommend anything yet because my first Hatto discs have not
yet arrived, but note that Musicweb is currently offering the two
Brahms concerti for the price of a single disc, which is excellent
value. The concerti are coupled with solo works, including a complete
op. 118.
AC
Tom Deacon
On 6/29/05 5:52 PM, in article f066c11jqr6fnom01...@4ax.com,
"Alan Cooper" <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:
I wonder if that is the same 118 which is also included in her survey of Op.
116-119, all included on one CD? I cannot tell, because I have not yet
purchased the two Brahms concerti. But given the special price, perhaps I
should, even if there is some duplication.
TD
gerrie...@cox.net
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> I've got both DK and TD killfiled, so this thread has looked very scrappy
> indeed on my computers, so I'd appreciate it if somebody else would answer
> this request. If I were to try one or two CDs of this pianist's music
> (probably order via Musicweb's links), which should they be?
>
> Thanks in advance.
For the "lighter" fare, try:
Encore! An anthology of Recital Encores - CACD-9168-2
For the "heavier":
Prokofiev: The Piano Sonatas - CACD-9121-2 - 9122-2
Gerrie C
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:f066c11jqr6fnom016mebklv8ima9cfm9m@
4ax.com:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:04 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Thanks. What about the concerto recordings? Is the orchestra stinky, or
>>acceptable? I don't expect it to be Reiner/CSO-ish.
>
> I can't recommend anything yet because my first Hatto discs have not yet
> arrived, but note that Musicweb is currently offering the two Brahms
> concerti for the price of a single disc, which is excellent value. The
> concerti are coupled with solo works, including a complete op. 118.
I'm very much in the mood for some good recordings of both Brahms concerti
that are new to me, so I think you've picked the winnah! Thanks again!
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:1120078956.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Thanks, and I did not mean to impugn the general run of honest orchestral
musicians with my "stinky" question. It's just that sometimes, well, you
get to hear an incredible piano performance weighted down with a highly
unsatisfactory orchestra, such as Ignace Tiegerman playing the Saint-Saëns
"Egyptian" Concerto with the Cairo Symphony Orchestra conducted by José
Ferriz, or José Vianna da Motta's playing Liszt's "Totentanz" with Pedro de
Freitas Branco conducting the Orchestre Symphonique du Portugal.
Tom Deacon
On 6/29/05 11:01 PM, in article
Xns9684CBADB23...@207.217.125.201, "Matthew B. Tepper"
<oy?@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Alan Cooper <amco...@nospamoptonline.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:f066c11jqr6fnom016mebklv8ima9cfm9m@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:37:04 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyfl@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks. What about the concerto recordings? Is the orchestra stinky, or
>>> acceptable? I don't expect it to be Reiner/CSO-ish.
>>
>> I can't recommend anything yet because my first Hatto discs have not yet
>> arrived, but note that Musicweb is currently offering the two Brahms
>> concerti for the price of a single disc, which is excellent value. The
>> concerti are coupled with solo works, including a complete op. 118.
>
> I'm very much in the mood for some good recordings of both Brahms concerti
> that are new to me, so I think you've picked the winnah!
No, he picked the bargain.
TD
alanwa...@aol.com
> The Schumann Concerto has just arrived accompanied by the Concerto without
> Orchestra, the second sonata, and Kinderszenen.
>
> Perhaps they have decided to couple the Schumann and Grieg differently?
>
> TD
In answer to your original question, I am told that the Schumann
Concerto is that previously issued but that the Grieg Concerto has
previously only been available on Cassette. As mentioned, the Litolff
Scherzo will also be on it.
The issue is in response to requests for this particular coupling.
Andrys Basten
Josep Vilanova <josepv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Do you mean that she will do a recording of 'Gaspard de la Nuit' aged 75?
>That can be something. I wonder why she is not reviewed in Gramophone (they
>do seem to care for British performers).
The music industry is bizarre, and narrow.
People look for the Seals of Approval but it's a small circle.
> I haven't heard anything of her.
>Where would you recommend me to start (a part from Iberia, as I have more
>than enough recordings of that piece and am still digesting MAH)?
You should start with the music you want to hear, from the
67+ albums Joyce Hatto and Concert Artists have provided. I've
promoted her music-making at my findclassical page for some time,
starting with an old sampleclip made by Ernst Lumpe (who has been
instrumental in getting Sergio Fiorentino's musicmaking to our
ears too - another great ignored by the music industry). The
last time I updated the page there were only 50 or so albums.
If you want to hear that short clip, which will give you an
idea of what she can do (in her mid 70s, as you say), listen
to the Liszt Mephisto Waltz clip at http://www.andrys.com/hatto.html
In addition to the good recommendations made by others here, I
recommend the Prokofiev Sonatas-set to anyone who loves this music.
While I have been partial to Richter for #8 (my favorite sonata of
the bunch), I found her quite lyrical reading beautiful in its own
way, and she brings more clarity to some of these sonatas than
I've heard before.
- Andrys
--
http://www.andrys.com