Prokofiev Symphonies -- which set?
number_six
recommend of what's readily available nowadays?
Currently I have only his Sym 1 (Marriner) and 5 (Muti, Dorati).
Jarvi, Ozawa and Gergiev have complete sets, and Naxos has a complete
cycle from Theodore Kuchar and NSO Ukraine.
Favorites, anyone? Get a set, or pick and choose individual
recordings? Thanks for your observations.
Dawg
Jarvi, a conductor I don't always leap to the defence of, is very good,
if, as a set, you are prepared to accept a fairly weak 5th. The RSNO
play well for him. I like Previn for the 5th on EMI, with great sound.
People will mention Szell for the 5th, although I have always been
bewildered by this choice. It is passable though, but nowhere near first
choice.
Kuchar is next in my affections. Excellent engineering too, and a set
worth hearing imo. He uses a Ukrainian orchestra also, and they do know
this music.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
Brian Burtt
The Rostropovich set has been re-released. Weller's can be picked up
from time to time. Rozhdestvensky's can be gotten from Japan. And
Kitaenko has a new set coming out.
Suddenly, we have a lot of choice in Prokofiev. I imprinted on Jarvi
when they were about the only ones easy to get. I've enjoyed, if not
completely been knocked over by, the Gergiev set. I can see wanting
to add one of the old-school Russian sets (are there any other besides
Rozh-D's?).
--Brian
rkhalona
Järvi's is a good starter set, but you can do much better by getting
individual recordings of the symphonies
(Celibidache in No. 1, Grin in No. 2, Muti in No. 3, Ormandy or
Rozhdestvensky in No. 4, Levine/CSO, Janssons/Leningrad, Temirkanov/
St. Petersburg, ... in No. 5, Mravinsky in No. 6 [accept no
substitutes here],
and Rozhdestvensky in No. 7 with the original ending)
If I were to choose a single set, it would be Rozhdestvensky's. He's
got a great feel for Prokofiev
[sample his recording of Romeo and Juliet]. You can't go wrong.
Kuchar's is also a good set, and much cheaper that Järvi's. I would
avoid Ozawa at all costs. Both he and the BPO
are unidiomatic in Prokofiev.
Martinon's set on two Vox Boxes is interpretatively very interesting,
but the French orchestra (ORTF) leaves a lot to be desired.
RK
rkhalona
BTW, I meant to add that Rostropovich's set should be avoided by all
means.
A lamer set set of Prokofiev's symphonies I cannot imagine.
I am looking forward to the new Kitaenko set (his first recordings of
some of the symphonies
were quite promising).
RK
CharlesSmith
> BTW, I meant to add that Rostropovich's set should be avoided by all
> means.
> A lamer set set of Prokofiev's symphonies I cannot imagine.
>
Absolutely!
CharlesSmith
For number 2, Polyansky and the Russian State Symphony Orchestra are
monumental (where others tend to be rather frantic).
Ozawa / BPO give good clean performances of 3 & 4, but not very
Russian.
For 6 & 7 Ashkenazy and the Cleveland are excellent.
Meier
> > Favorites, anyone? Get a set, or pick and choose individual
> On Sep 25, 7:57 pm, number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For the Prokofiev Symphonies, whom do you like, and whom would you
> > recommend of what's readily available nowadays?
>
> > Currently I have only his Sym 1 (Marriner) and 5 (Muti, Dorati).
>
> > Jarvi, Ozawa and Gergiev have complete sets, and Naxos has a complete
> > cycle from Theodore Kuchar and NSO Ukraine.
>
> Järvi's is a good starter set, but you can do much better by getting
> individual recordings of the symphonies
> (Celibidache in No. 1, Grin in No. 2, Muti in No. 3, Ormandy or
> Rozhdestvensky in No. 4, Levine/CSO, Janssons/Leningrad, Temirkanov/
> St. Petersburg, ... in No. 5, Mravinsky in No. 6 [accept no
> substitutes here],
> and Rozhdestvensky in No. 7 with the original ending)
>
> If I were to choose a single set, it would be Rozhdestvensky's. He's
> got a great feel for Prokofiev
> [sample his recording of Romeo and Juliet]. You can't go wrong.
>
> Kuchar's is also a good set, and much cheaper that Järvi's. I would
> avoid Ozawa at all costs. Both he and the BPO
> are unidiomatic in Prokofiev.
>
> Martinon's set on two Vox Boxes is interpretatively very interesting,
> but the French orchestra (ORTF) leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> RK
I agree, Ozawa should be given a very wide berth. I find Jarvi's
recordings of nos. 5 & 6 enjoyable. No.7 is also very good and
includes the charming Sinfonietta, op.5/48.
Alf
William Sommerwerck
OT, but I have his Shostakovich symphonies in the Brilliant set, and am
impressed.
Ed Presson
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:noqdnah0MuTdVEHV...@comcast.com...
>> Kuchar's is also a good set...
>
> OT, but I have his Shostakovich symphonies in the Brilliant set, and am
> impressed.
>
every bit as bad as the reviews. Avoid.
Ed Presson
Kevin N
> On Sep 25, 10:57 pm, number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For the Prokofiev Symphonies, whom do you like, and whom would you
> > recommend of what's readily available nowadays?
>
> > Currently I have only his Sym 1 (Marriner) and 5 (Muti, Dorati).
>
> > Jarvi, Ozawa and Gergiev have complete sets, and Naxos has a complete
> > cycle from Theodore Kuchar and NSO Ukraine.
>
> > Favorites, anyone? Get a set, or pick and choose individual
> > recordings? Thanks for your observations.
>
> The Rostropovich set has been re-released. Weller's can be picked up
> from time to time. Rozhdestvensky's can be gotten from Japan.
Do you know if it is also available in Russia?
Gerard
Are you sure about Kuchar recorded the Shostakovich symphonies, on Brilliant
Classics?
I only know the Barshai set on Brilliant Classics.
Juan I. Cahis
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>For number 2, Polyansky and the Russian State Symphony Orchestra are
>monumental (where others tend to be rather frantic).
Is there any conductor that can save this Symphony (and Shostakovich
Second and Third too)? :-) :-)
Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!
td
So far nobody has mentioned Leinsdorf/Boston Symphony Orchestra from
RCA Victor via Testament.
The orchestra in those recordings is at least top notch.
TD
Kevin N
Considering that they go for over $25/disc, I sure as hell won't be
buying anything on Testament.
rkhalona
wrote:
> Dear Charles & friends:
>
> CharlesSmith <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >For number 2, Polyansky and the Russian State Symphony Orchestra are
> >monumental (where others tend to be rather frantic).
>
> Is there any conductor that can save this Symphony (and Shostakovich
> Second and Third too)? :-) :-)
>
For the Prokofiev 2nd, the answer is a resounding YES. Try Leonid
Grin on Ondine.
Leinsdorf's recording with the BSO is not bad either, although the
sound is compressed
and you need a wide dynamic range to enjoy this symphony's wild ride.
RK
rkhalona
The Leinsdorf set is not complete.
RK
J.Martin
> Favorites, anyone? Get a set, or pick and choose individual
> recordings? Thanks for your observations.
Well, as always, I'm sure you can do better picking individual
performances than going with a cycle, since every complete set seems
to include a dud or two. I find Gergiev the most interesting of the
cycles I've heard (Jarvi, Ozawa, Weller), with the only poor
performance in that set being, curiously enough, the1st. As for
individual symphonies, I'm very fond of Ancerl in 1, Muti in 3 and 5,
and Ormandy in 6. (I've never heard the much-revered Mravinsky 6, but
I hope to find a copy one of these days.) The other symphonies
interest me less, so I'm not sure I have favorites in 2, 4, or 7.
Now, the piano concertos on the other hand, ar all masterpieces!
JM
CharlesSmith
>
> Jarvi, a conductor I don't always leap to the defence of, is very good,
> if, as a set, you are prepared to accept a fairly weak 5th. The RSNO
> play well for him.
If you are going down the Järvi/RSNO route it's also worthwhile to get
their Chandos disc of the Prodigal Son ballet, which also includes the
Divertimento Op 43 and the Symphonic song Op 57 - both first-rate
symphonic works.
CharlesSmith
wrote:
> Dear Charles & friends:
>
> CharlesSmith <sigma.onl...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >For number 2, Polyansky and the Russian State Symphony Orchestra are
> >monumental (where others tend to be rather frantic).
>
> Is there any conductor that can save this Symphony (and Shostakovich
> Second and Third too)? :-) :-)
>
IMO the Prokofiev second is a superb well-crafted majestic and
powerful 1920's symphony. I like the Polyansky recording because he
gives the forceful passages a breadth and nobility, which also serves
to make the contrasting meditative sections of the second movement
very effective. To be honest, the only other recording I know well is
the Gergiev - who I was thinking of when I used the word "frantic"
earlier.
Since you mention it, I'll note that I also like Shostakovich 2 - a
highly original darkness-to-light composition. (But someone else will
have to stick up for Shostakovich 3.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:b14qd45u4jms2mjet65euq8kb8rql8hfej@
4ax.com:
> Dear Charles & friends:
>
> CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>For number 2, Polyansky and the Russian State Symphony Orchestra are
>>monumental (where others tend to be rather frantic).
>
> Is there any conductor that can save this Symphony (and Shostakovich
> Second and Third too)? :-) :-)
For those two bottom-of-the-barrel Shostakovich symphonies, I'd certainly
like to have a "legit" transfer to CD of the Morton Gould recordings.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Sol L. Siegel
<oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>For those two bottom-of-the-barrel Shostakovich symphonies, I'd certainly
>like to have a "legit" transfer to CD of the Morton Gould recordings.
You're not the only one.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Sol L. Siegel
wrote:
>So far nobody has mentioned Leinsdorf/Boston Symphony Orchestra from
>RCA Victor via Testament.
>
>The orchestra in those recordings is at least top notch.
I'm still mentally kicking myself that I never got either of
Leinsdorf's Kijes (one of which was paired with 5 on RCA Navigator)
when I had the chance. Is he the only one who's recorded it with the
baritone vocals?
Michael Schaffer
> On Sep 25, 7:57 pm, number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For the Prokofiev Symphonies, whom do you like, and whom would you
> > recommend of what's readily available nowadays?
>
> > Currently I have only his Sym 1 (Marriner) and 5 (Muti, Dorati).
>
> > Jarvi, Ozawa and Gergiev have complete sets, and Naxos has a complete
> > cycle from Theodore Kuchar and NSO Ukraine.
>
> > Favorites, anyone? Get a set, or pick and choose individual
> > recordings? Thanks for your observations.
>
> Järvi's is a good starter set, but you can do much better by getting
> individual recordings of the symphonies
> (Celibidache in No. 1, Grin in No. 2, Muti in No. 3, Ormandy or
> Rozhdestvensky in No. 4, Levine/CSO, Janssons/Leningrad, Temirkanov/
> St. Petersburg, ... in No. 5, Mravinsky in No. 6 [accept no
> substitutes here],
> and Rozhdestvensky in No. 7 with the original ending)
>
> If I were to choose a single set, it would be Rozhdestvensky's. He's
> got a great feel for Prokofiev
> [sample his recording of Romeo and Juliet]. You can't go wrong.
>
> Kuchar's is also a good set, and much cheaper that Järvi's. I would
> avoid Ozawa at all costs. Both he and the BPO
> are unidiomatic in Prokofiev.
I disagree completely. Although there are very few Ozawa recordings I
find really good, I think he does have a great feeling for
Prokofieff"s music and the BP is in its very best form here, so that
is, overall, my favorite complete set. Ozawa's Romeo and Juliet with
the BSO is also particularly good with some stunningly beautiful and
very musically detailed playing there. I think what you mean by
"idiomatic" is more a clichéed, one-sided idea of how Prokofieff's
music should sound, based on - what? The idea that the music should
always sound screechy and distorted? Why do you include such smooth-
over artists as Ormandy and Muti in your list then?
Russ (not Martha)
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:12:47 -0700 (PDT), td <tomdedea...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So far nobody has mentioned Leinsdorf/Boston Symphony Orchestra from
> >RCA Victor via Testament.
>
> >The orchestra in those recordings is at least top notch.
>
> I'm still mentally kicking myself that I never got either of
> Leinsdorf's Kijes (one of which was paired with 5 on RCA Navigator)
> when I had the chance. Is he the only one who's recorded it with the
> baritone vocals?
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Ozawa (DG) and Jurowski (cpo).
Russ (not Martha)
Dan Fowler
sets I have though I would not hesitate to recommend the Naxos set of
symphonies (Kuchar) and concertos from Naxos as a good place to start.
It offers at least good (and frequently very good and excellent)
performances of a large amount of Prokofiev works for not very much
money. Symphonies 4 & 6 from this set are among my favorites. Top notch
performances in the other works tend to make this my first
recommendation. Usually, I also recommend a couple of other items (since
the set is so inexpensive that others purchases are justified :-, namely
the BBC legends recording of Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad performing
symphony no. 5 ( and Romeo and Juliet excerpts as well as Britten's
Young Persons Guide)and the Malko/Philharmonia recordings of symphonies
1 & 7 (and Love for Three Oranges).
Having said all that, my recommendations may change once I've had a
chance to listen to my recently-obtained set of symphonies conducted by
Rozhdestvensky.
As for the other sets I've listened to, I keep wanting to like the Jarvi
set; it has great recorded sound and great orchestral playing, and I
can't find any fault with it in particular. I keep pulling random disks
out and listening to them every once in a while, but nothing has really
connected with me. And I like Jarvi in a lot of works.
On the other hand, I really enjoy listening to the Vox set conducted by
Martinon. The sound is not that great, but the atmosphere is terrific. I
have kind of an opposite feeling from that of the Jarvi set: it seems
like a lot more than the sum of its parts.
I've enjoyed reading all the recommendations for individual recordings
and will try to track down some of the ones I don't have.
Dan
Michael Schaffer
> To be honest, I haven't been completely satisfied with any of the boxed
> sets I have though I would not hesitate to recommend the Naxos set of
> symphonies (Kuchar) and concertos from Naxos as a good place to start.
> It offers at least good (and frequently very good and excellent)
> performances of a large amount of Prokofiev works for not very much
> money. Symphonies 4 & 6 from this set are among my favorites. Top notch
> performances in the other works tend to make this my first
> recommendation. Usually, I also recommend a couple of other items (since
> the set is so inexpensive that others purchases are justified :-, namely
> the BBC legends recording of Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad performing
> symphony no. 5 ( and Romeo and Juliet excerpts as well as Britten's
> Young Persons Guide)
Oh! I didn't know about that. So I immediately ordered it. There is
also a BBC Legends disc with Symphonie fantastique and Francesca da
Rimini with LP/Rozh - that must be from live concerts from the same UK
tour when they also recorded the late Tchaikovsky symphonies with
Mravinsky, as DG also taped Francesca da R and a suite from Gayaneh
with Rozh during the same sessions. I wonder if the BBC also has live
recordings of the Tchaikovsky symphonies played during that tour. It
would be fascinating to compare those to the famous DG recordings.
> and the Malko/Philharmonia recordings of symphonies
> 1 & 7 (and Love for Three Oranges).
>
> Having said all that, my recommendations may change once I've had a
> chance to listen to my recently-obtained set of symphonies conducted by
> Rozhdestvensky.
>
> As for the other sets I've listened to, I keep wanting to like the Jarvi
> set; it has great recorded sound and great orchestral playing, and I
> can't find any fault with it in particular. I keep pulling random disks
> out and listening to them every once in a while, but nothing has really
> connected with me. And I like Jarvi in a lot of works.
I don't, so I understand what you mean here. The SNO is very good, the
sound is attractive - but it's Järvi. He never really gets into the
music. He probably didn't even know the scores that well. After all,
he didn't have time to study when he had to make hundreds of
recordings within a few years.
I also have a complete set with Kosler and the Czech Philharmonic
which is similarly underwhelming. OK playing, but not as good and
stylish as one would expect from the CO, lacklustre, undetailed
direction, reverberant, indirect recording.
number_six
to have many suggestions and discussions to sort through as I fill out
a Prokofiev cycle. As I said in the op, I only have Sym 1 and 5
currently.
I had recently read Yury Tyanyanov's story Lieutenant Kije (translated
by Mirra Ginsburg), so perhaps I found myself in a Prokofiev mood.
Though it is obvious upon reflection, I was still started when I saw
that in translation, he had to be called Lieutenant Nants. Heh.
Al Eisner
Reviving this old thread: BBC3's CD Review from October 4 features a
new set by Kitajenko/Gurzenich Orch, which the reviewer (Rob Cowan)
praised highly. I believe he said it included two versions of #4.
It's a live cycle recorded in 2005. His summary comment was that it
impressed him more than any cycle since Rozhdestvensky's from the
1960s.
Some excerpts are part of the program, and these sounded impressive.
But it's hard to judge the set this way. Has anyone heard this set?
--
Al Eisner
Kalman Rubinson
<eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Reviving this old thread: BBC3's CD Review from October 4 features a
>new set by Kitajenko/Gurzenich Orch, which the reviewer (Rob Cowan)
>praised highly. I believe he said it included two versions of #4.
>It's a live cycle recorded in 2005. His summary comment was that it
>impressed him more than any cycle since Rozhdestvensky's from the
>1960s.
>
>Some excerpts are part of the program, and these sounded impressive.
>But it's hard to judge the set this way. Has anyone heard this set?
So farI have been through the set once plus the revised #4 twice.
They were excellent although I might choose individual single releases
for most of them. Another pass this week/weekend.
Kal
Dawg
Most sets include both versions of #4. Kuchar does both, as also does Jarvi.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
John_H...@msn.com
Look for the old Anosov Parliament disk for a close to definitive (if
ever this is possible) version (also, try to get a aircheck of the
Tennstedt/ NY Phil live performance). Hauser
jrs...@aol.com
Tennstedt and Anosov are fine choices for Kije, of course. Neither of
them tops two recent broadcasts I've heard. One was led by Vladimir
Verbitzky with one of the Australian orchestras (offhand I can't
remember if it was the WASO or QSO). The other was MTT/SFS. Finally,
if there's an aircheck to find, it's the amazing performance of an all-
brass arrangement of Lt Kije that was aired a couple years ago, with
the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra brass section.
--Jeff
Pierre
"Al Eisner" <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOC.4.64.08...@flora04.slac.stanford.edu...
Al Eisner
Kosler / Czech Philharmonic
David Cook
> I'm still mentally kicking myself that I never got either of
> Leinsdorf's Kijes (one of which was paired with 5 on RCA Navigator)
> when I had the chance. Is he the only one who's recorded it with the
> baritone vocals?
Slatkin and Ozawa also recorded it with a baritone.
Leinsdorf's Kije with Dan Iordecescu and the Philharmonia is currently
available from Testament along with the Boston SO R&J selections. Not too
bad a price now that the GBP has dropped in value:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/pages/product/product.asp?ctgry=&prod=SBT1394
You can also get the EMI/Capitol CD used:
http://www.amazon.com/Iordachescu-Browning-Prokofiev-Kodaly-Ravel/dp/B000002S79
Note that this only includes a few movements of the Hary Janos.
Dave Cook
Rugby
Some additional Leinsdorf on Testament ( I think his # 5 with the BSO
was magnificant) at Amazon-US:
Prokofiev: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 3 by Sergey Prokofiev, Erich Leinsdorf,
and Boston Symphony Orchestra (Audio CD - 2005) - Import
16 Used & new from $13.77
Prokofiev: Symphonies Nos. 2 & 6 by Sergey Prokofiev, Erich Leinsdorf,
and Boston Symphony Orchestra (Audio CD - 2005)
26 Used & new from $12.94
Rugby
number_six
Frank Berger
> In re a 2020 Prok Sym thread, this 2008 thread had many responses that may still be helpful.
>
Kitaenko -same guy), Gurzenrich-Orchester Koln, 1995 on
Phoenix Edition.
https://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Symphonies/dp/B001DELX12
Gerard
"number_six" wrote in message
news:ec69d0ac-8132-4da0...@googlegroups.com...
In re a 2020 Prok Sym thread, this 2008 thread had many responses that may
still be helpful.
But that thread is not visible unless one is using Google Groups. ;-(
number_six
I don't know what your interface looks like.
number_six
Gerard
"number_six" wrote in message
news:06512d01-f619-4c69...@googlegroups.com...
The 2008 thread. I use a newsreader program. Which one does not matter
because such old posts are no longer present on most (or all) news servers;
they are only visible when using Google Groups.
Maybe you could provide an URL to that discussion?
Frank Berger
>
>
> "number_six" wrote in message
> news:06512d01-f619-4c69...@googlegroups.com...
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:31:53 PM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
>> "number_six" wrote in message
>> news:ec69d0ac-8132-4da0...@googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> In re a 2020 Prok Sym thread, this 2008 thread had many
>> responses that may
>> still be helpful.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> But that thread is not visible unless one is using Google
>> Groups. ;-(
>
> Are you saying that you can't view the 2020 discussion
> (started yesterday by "Randy Wolfgang") or that you can't
> view the 2008 discussion?
>
> I don't know what your interface looks like.
> -----------------------------
>
> The 2008 thread. I use a newsreader program. Which one does
> not matter because such old posts are no longer present on
> most (or all) news servers; they are only visible when using
> Google Groups.
> Maybe you could provide an URL to that discussion?
>
Frank Berger
the way I did. Apropos individual performances, I happen to
be fond of #2 with Leonid Grin, Tampere PO recorded in 1991.
He recorded no other Prokofiev symphonies that I am aware
of. The only other recordings from him I am aware of his a
box of Melmartin symphonies. From the online biographical
information I can't figure out where he is at present. He
emigrated from the USSR to the US in 1981. Perhaps he's
retired.
Gerard
"Frank Berger" wrote in message
news:kZWdnUeFhc57177C...@supernews.com...
Thanks.