Ormandy
sara...@my-dejanews.com
I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
them.
Thanks
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tony Movshon
sara...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
> of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
> grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
> CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
> them.
Ormandy certainly still has his admirers in this newsgroup and
elsewhere. Sony has reissued quite a bit of his stuff on their
inexpensive series, and there are also some recordings on RCA and EMI
that are worth tracking down. Following is an off-the-top-of-my-head
list of my favorite Ormandys (all Sony unless indicated; probably some
are out of print by now).
Berlioz - Requiem
Elgar - Enigma Variations
Kodaly - Galanta Dances
Mahler - Symphony 10
Prokofiev - Symphonies 1 & 5
Shostakovich - Symphonies 4 & 10
Sibelius - Symphonies 2 & 7
Sibelius - 4 Legends (EMI)
Vaughan Williams - Tallis Fantasia
Others will surely list more, but remember that my list is from someone
who is not generally a fan.
--
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
David M. Cook
>I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
>of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
>grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
>CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
>them.
I recommend his Prokofiev 5 and Shostakovich 4 & 10.
Dave Cook
Raymond Hall
<7fei9v$igq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks
LP's
> of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and
1960's? I
> grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the
best
> CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear
about
> them.
>
There is a really stunning Tchaikovsky 6th that he did for CBS. One of the
very best Pathetiques. Generally a very good Sibelian also, as Tony's list
shows, the 7th being particularly fine. And I am sure that someone will
come up with the Rachmaninov symphonies he recorded also, which show off
the Philly strings to good advantage.
I am still intrigued by the Shostakovitch 4 & 10 coupling on Sony. Is this
a really good 4th? I have been eyeing this for a while, but I recently
remember Fred recommending the Rozh 4th as his top recommendation. How
about the 10th also?
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Lehobe
Symphony, all the Rachmaninoff Symphonies, especially the uncut Second,
Rachmaninoff's "Symphonic Dances" dedicated to Ormandy and the Philadelphians,
Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony and the set of Shostakovich's 13th through 15th
Symphonies. Also recommended is the Shostakovich First Symphony coupled with
the 'Cello Concerto, with Rostropovich as soloist. The Brahms Double Concerto
with Heifetz and Feuermann is another" must-have", in my opinion. An album
featuring the strings alone is an exceptional one: Barber's Adagio for Strings
(quartet purists should shy away, string sonority-lovers should run to their
nearest record/c.d. shop and grab it!) plus Borodin's Nocturne and
Tchaikovsky's Serenade for Strings. I think these discs are my favorites with
this conductor and this Orchestra.
Matthew B. Tepper
leh...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Also recommended is the Shostakovich First Symphony coupled with
>the 'Cello Concerto, with Rostropovich as soloist.
Now split up, on two of Sony's series, Essential Classics and
Masterworks Heritage, respectively.
You also mentioned his (RCA) box of Shostakovich Symphonies ## 13, 14,
and 15. I do wish BMG would get off the stick and reissue these
already!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
RKaplan890
>a really good 4th? I have been eyeing this for a while, but I recently
>remember Fred recommending the Rozh 4th as his top recommendation. How
>about the 10th also?
>
>
The 4th is a knockout--10 excellent also. I haven't heard them on CD (Sony's
treatment of Ormandy material has been uneven), but I treasure my LPs. I also
agree on the Sibelius, Tchaik 6 (a terrific 4th, too), and Rachmaninoff. A
dark horse: try his Brahms First!
Richard Kaplan
Al Roth
<Just off the top of my head, I have Ormandy's Tchaikovsky 6th, Swan Lake,
Serenade for Strings (together with Barber's Adagio for Strings, and a piece
by Borodin), Sibelius 2nd. They are all very good. Ormandy is one of those
conductors like Szell, Solti, Dohnanyi that I would go with if I must buy
without first hearing. They rarely disappoint (at least where I'm
concerned.)
Al
Sacqueboutier
>
> sara...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> > I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
> > of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
> > grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
> > CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
> > them.
>
> elsewhere. Sony has reissued quite a bit of his stuff on their
> inexpensive series, and there are also some recordings on RCA and EMI
> that are worth tracking down. Following is an off-the-top-of-my-head
> list of my favorite Ormandys (all Sony unless indicated; probably some
> are out of print by now).
>
> Berlioz - Requiem
> Elgar - Enigma Variations
> Kodaly - Galanta Dances
> Mahler - Symphony 10
> Prokofiev - Symphonies 1 & 5
> Shostakovich - Symphonies 4 & 10
> Sibelius - Symphonies 2 & 7
> Sibelius - 4 Legends (EMI)
> Vaughan Williams - Tallis Fantasia
Generally good with Tchaikovsky.
An excellent Hindemith Symphonic Metamorphosis on EMI label.
--
Don Patterson
"If you aren't a liberal at the age of twenty,
you have no heart.
"If, by the age of forty, you are not a conservative,
you have no brain."
---Winston Churchill
rkha...@adnc.com
> who is not generally a fan.
Yes, Ormandy is quite underrated still. His Tchaikovsky on Sony (4,5,6 + Swan
Lake, etc.) are really good. His Sibelius 1st on Biddulph (coupled with
Stoki's 4th) is also quite good, especially because of "Lemminkainen's
Return" on the same CD, which leaves Beecham's recording behind by a wide
margin (IMHO). Don't forget his Zarathustra on EMI either. A great,
understated conductor.
Ramon Khalona
Savannah, Georgia
The Melsons
recorded prolifically during his tenure in Philadelphia. There's a
Sony Essential Classics CD with a lot of Russian encore pieces,
including a tremendously visceral Russian Sailors's Dance and a
flavorful "Procession of the Sardar."
Other Ormandy recommendations not already mentioned in other responses
to this question:
- An incredibly voluptuous "Rosenkavalier" Suite (Sony Essential
Classics), perhaps the recording I pull out most often when I'm trying
to illustrate what the alleged "Philadelphia Sound" was all about
during Ormandy's tenure
- Early '50s, monaural performances of symphonies by Piston, Harris
and Schuman, all of them superbly performed, on Albany Records
- Sterling collaborations (he was a fabulous accompanist) with artists
like Serkin (the Mendelssohn Piano Concerti - forget what the Penguin
Guide says about these Sony Essential Classics recordings, they really
sizzle), Stern (a really great Brahms Violin Concerto, if you're not
partial to the lean-and-mean Heifetz approach) and Rose (the
Tchaikovsky Rococo Variations and Lalo Concerto on Sony Essential
Classics).
- His orchestrated Bach, both on CBS Odyssey and RCA (I have the LP,
did it ever make it to CD?). The Odyssey disc is the sonic equivalent
of a glass of warm milk before bedtime - 180 degrees from scholarly
performance practice, but a great opportunity to wallow.
Ormandy - and to an even greater extent, his predecessor, Stokowski -
really gloried in rich sonorities, an approach which is sadly out of
fashion today - I can't think of any conductor who follows their path.
Mark Melson
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:26:14 GMT, sara...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
>of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
>grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
>CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
>them.
>
>Thanks
Fred Rupert
Raymond Hall wrote:
> sara...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
> <7fei9v$igq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks
> LP's
> > of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and
> 1960's? I
> > grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the
> best
> > CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear
> about
> > them.
> >
>
> There is a really stunning Tchaikovsky 6th that he did for CBS. One of the
> very best Pathetiques. Generally a very good Sibelian also, as Tony's list
> shows, the 7th being particularly fine. And I am sure that someone will
> come up with the Rachmaninov symphonies he recorded also, which show off
> the Philly strings to good advantage.
> I am still intrigued by the Shostakovitch 4 & 10 coupling on Sony. Is this
> a really good 4th? I have been eyeing this for a while, but I recently
> remember Fred recommending the Rozh 4th as his top recommendation. How
> about the 10th also?
>
> | Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
PGoldst515
Sibelius recordings I've ever heard. Listening to this great orchestra in full
throttle makes it difficult to tolerate the scads of lesser orchestras who
record so much these days.
Paul Goldstein
Al Roth
What about great orchestras that don't record too much these days - like
Cleveland, for example.
Al
PGoldst515 <pgold...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990420104418...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
Bruce Morrison
>Hi,
>
>I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
>of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
>grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
>CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
>them.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
If you like the works, his Sony coupling of the Nielsen 1st and 6th
symphonies is excellent.
Others have mentioned his Prokofiev which is also very good - I wish
Sony would also reissue his Prokofiev 6th. This was the version from
which I got to know the work back in my student days, and I would love
to make its acquaintance again on CD, although I suspect it may now
seem rather a romanticised reading compared with the astringency of
Mravinsky and Leinsdorf.
--
Bruce Morrison (bruce.m...@dial.pipex.com)
"If a tune should ever occur to you, don't hesitate to write it down."
(Vaughan Williams' advice on hearing a young composer's latest offering)
jjames
> Others have mentioned his Prokofiev which is also very good - I wish
> Sony would also reissue his Prokofiev 6th. This was the version from
> which I got to know the work back in my student days, and I would love
> to make its acquaintance again on CD, although I suspect it may now
> seem rather a romanticised reading compared with the astringency of
> Mravinsky and Leinsdorf.
>
> --
> Bruce Morrison (bruce.m...@dial.pipex.com)
> "If a tune should ever occur to you, don't hesitate to write it down."
> (Vaughan Williams' advice on hearing a young composer's latest offering)
I have listened to other Prokofiev 6ths and still, like you, have a strong
suspicion that Ormandy's was a great recording of this piece.
I also grew to love Ormandy's version of Pr.'s 4th... perhaps a good release
coupling?
j james
John Grabowski
>
> On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:26:14 GMT, sara...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
> >of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
> >grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
> >CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
> >them.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> If you like the works, his Sony coupling of the Nielsen 1st and 6th
> symphonies is excellent.
>
> Sony would also reissue his Prokofiev 6th.
I wish RCA would reissue *their* recording of his Prokofiev 5th. Even
better than the Sony.
John
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect
sweetness the independence of solitude.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sarasota
up with many of Ormandy's Columbia Masterworks recordings of the 50's and
60's, I can't say that I was completely surprised by what was mentioned, but
I was by the intensity of the admiration that still exists for this great
conductor.
Some of your recommendations I was indeed familiar with on LP. Ormandy's
Pathetique was my first recording of that work and I just recently found a CD
reissue. Someone mentioned the Prokofiev 6th also and I completely agree - it
was the first recordings I had of that composer and led me to many more. This
one is definitely in line for a reissue on CD.
I'm definitely going to investigate many of the other recommendations as they
sound very promising. Did anyone mention Ormandy's Saint-Saens Organ Symph.
? There are at least three (with Fox, Biggs, and Murphy) but I've never heard
any of them. Are these worth investigating?
After hearing my first Sony Masterworks Heritage CD the other day, all I've
been able to think of is, when will they get around to doing some of the
Philadelphia/Ormandy recordings.
'sota
_____
"por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas"
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>as they sound very promising. Did anyone mention Ormandy's Saint-Saens
Four; *two* with Biggs (one mono, one stereo); Fox, then Murray. I like
the stereo Biggs and the Murray.
Sacqueboutier
>
> In article <7fru6c$jbn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, sara...@my-dejanews.com
> pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >I'm definitely going to investigate many of the other recommendations
> >as they sound very promising. Did anyone mention Ormandy's Saint-Saens
> >Organ Symph.? There are at least three (with Fox, Biggs, and Murphy)
> >but I've never heard any of them. Are these worth investigating?
>
> Four; *two* with Biggs (one mono, one stereo); Fox, then Murray. I like
> the stereo Biggs and the Murray.
Avoid the Fox, as it used an electronic organ.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>> In article <7fru6c$jbn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>> sara...@my-dejanews.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>> >
>> >I'm definitely going to investigate many of the other
>> >recommendations as they sound very promising. Did anyone mention
>> >worth investigating?
>>
>> Four; *two* with Biggs (one mono, one stereo); Fox, then Murray. I
>> like the stereo Biggs and the Murray.
>
>Avoid the Fox, as it used an electronic organ.
I have done just that, for the very reason you cite.
Richard S. Sandmeyer
I completely agree with the earlier calls in this thread for the re-issue
of Ormandy's RCA recordings of Shostakovich Symphonies 13, 14, and 15,
also for re-issue of his Prokofiev Symphonies 4 and 6 on Sony.
One that hasn't been mentioned so far: I'd also like to see Sony re-issue
Ormandy's recordings of Ives' Symphony No. 1 and Three Places in New
England. I have good memories of both, though I have to admit I've not
heard either in at least 15 years. Seems like a natural pairing for a
Sony Essential Classics release, but then so do lots of other things we'll
likely never get on CD.
Rich Sandmeyer
rich...@netgsi.com
Matthew B. Tepper
rich...@netgsi.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
IIRC, Ormandy's recording of Ives' Symphony #1 was on Columbia, while
his first recording of the "Three Places" was on Columbia paired with
Copland's "A Lincoln Portrait." And while I wouldn't mind seeing those
reissued, what I'd *really* like to see is Ormandy's *second* recording
of the "Three Places," in an edition (by John Sinclair, I think) which
attempted to restore the original large-orchestra textures. This was
coupled with a pretty good Harris Third, IIRC (my beginning is my end,
riverrun, etc.).
Hat NYC 62
Ormandy's recordings of Ives' Symphony No. 1 and Three Places in New
England. I have good memories of both, though I have to admit I've not
heard either in at least 15 years. Seems like a natural pairing for a
Sony Essential Classics release, but then so do lots of other things we'll
likely never get on CD. >>
Interesting that you mention the Ives. I honestly can't remember which
recording was involved in the following anecdote, provided by Gil Johnson, who
was principal trumpet there for a while. Apparently, he and the rest of the
brass section with him, got completely lost during what they thought was a
run-though of one of the Ives movements. They proceeded to just blast away on
random notes to see if anyone would notice. Next thing they knew, the take
ended and everyone seemed happy, and that's what was released. It apparently
won some awards, too. He just said he hoped no one ever tried to study the
recording with a score.
David Hattner, NYC
Richard S. Sandmeyer
Strange how your mention of the Harris Third triggered my memory of
another Ormandy recording of American symphonies: In the early or mid 70s
he did a recording of the William Schuman Sym 9 and the Persichetti Sym 9;
I haven't seen that on CD yet either. How about it RCA/BMG?
Rich Sandmeyer
rich...@netgsi.com
In article <7fvm9j$8...@journal.concentric.net>, ducky兀deltanet.com wrote:
> In article <richsand-250...@p1-10.netgsi.com>,
> rich...@netgsi.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >I completely agree with the earlier calls in this thread for the
> >re-issue of Ormandy's RCA recordings of Shostakovich Symphonies 13, 14,
> >and 15, also for re-issue of his Prokofiev Symphonies 4 and 6 on Sony.
> >
> >One that hasn't been mentioned so far: I'd also like to see Sony
> >re-issue Ormandy's recordings of Ives' Symphony No. 1 and Three Places
> >in New England. I have good memories of both, though I have to admit
> >I've not heard either in at least 15 years. Seems like a natural
> >pairing for a Sony Essential Classics release, but then so do lots of
> >other things we'll likely never get on CD.
>
Matthew B. Tepper
>another Ormandy recording of American symphonies: In the early or mid
>70s he did a recording of the William Schuman Sym 9 and the Persichetti
>Sym 9; I haven't seen that on CD yet either. How about it RCA/BMG?
I've come up with what I call the "finger rating" for guessing the
likelihood of a record company reissuing some certain treasures from
their back catalogue. It assumes that one has kidnapped the children of
an executive of that record company, and is based on the number of
severed fingers one would have to mail back before the executive would
green-light the go-ahead for reissue.
In the case of the Schuman/Persichetti disc, I would have to give it a
finger rating of "8."
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>>
>> In article <richsand-250...@p1-44.netgsi.com>,
>> rich...@netgsi.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>> >
>> >Strange how your mention of the Harris Third triggered my memory of
>> >another Ormandy recording of American symphonies: In the early or
>> >mid 70s he did a recording of the William Schuman Sym 9 and the
>> >Persichetti Sym 9; I haven't seen that on CD yet either. How about
>> >it RCA/BMG?
>>
>> I've come up with what I call the "finger rating" for guessing the
>> likelihood of a record company reissuing some certain treasures from
>> their back catalogue. It assumes that one has kidnapped the children
>> of an executive of that record company, and is based on the number of
>> severed fingers one would have to mail back before the executive
>> would green-light the go-ahead for reissue.
>>
>> In the case of the Schuman/Persichetti disc, I would have to give it
>> a finger rating of "8."
>
>each hand?
>
>Steve
Well, it's hard to tell because of the webbing.
Raymond Hall
<richsand-250...@p1-10.netgsi.com>...
>
> I completely agree with the earlier calls in this thread for the re-issue
> of Ormandy's RCA recordings of Shostakovich Symphonies 13, 14, and 15,
> also for re-issue of his Prokofiev Symphonies 4 and 6 on Sony.
>
> One that hasn't been mentioned so far: I'd also like to see Sony
re-issue
> Ormandy's recordings of Ives' Symphony No. 1 and Three Places in New
> England. I have good memories of both, though I have to admit I've not
> heard either in at least 15 years. Seems like a natural pairing for a
> Sony Essential Classics release, but then so do lots of other things
we'll
> likely never get on CD.
>
Masterpieces", and comprise Ive's (Variations on America), Barber's (Adagio
for strings), Morton Gould's (American Salute), and MacDowell's (To a Wild
Rose).
Other interesting pieces on this CD are Schuman's (New England Tryptych),
Griffe's (The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan), Gottschalk, Benjamin, Rodgers,
Virgil Thomson, Bernstein and Gershwin, played by Kostelanetz NYPO, and
Louis Lane (Cleveland Pops Orch).
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
steve wolk
David Grayshan
urgent candidates for combined rerelease, you are so right.
ALso the Prokofiev 2nd. Piano Concerto with Tedd Joselson which is without
doubt the best "modern" recording (20 years old?), only surpassed by the
Friedrich Wuehrer on Vox (which I doubt we'll ever see on CD). There was
some excellent Tchaikovsky and other Russian and French stuff on RCA as
well.
RCA are you listening?
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> (Snip of remarks about Sony reissues)
> And while I wouldn't mind seeing those
> reissued, what I'd *really* like to see is Ormandy's *second* recording
> of the "Three Places," in an edition (by John Sinclair, I think) which
> attempted to restore the original large-orchestra textures. This was
> coupled with a pretty good Harris Third, IIRC (my beginning is my end,
> riverrun, etc.).
> (Snip)
David Grayshan
I suspect that, no matter how many fingers you chopped off the hands of
record executives' children these days, they would not respond unless the
accountants gave them the go-ahead.
Regards,
David.
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> (Snip)
> I've come up with what I call the "finger rating" for guessing the
> likelihood of a record company reissuing some certain treasures from
> their back catalogue. It assumes that one has kidnapped the children of
> an executive of that record company, and is based on the number of
> severed fingers one would have to mail back before the executive would
> green-light the go-ahead for reissue.
>
> In the case of the Schuman/Persichetti disc, I would have to give it a
> finger rating of "8."
>
Matthew B. Tepper
dgra...@tschan-partner.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Matthew,
>
>I suspect that, no matter how many fingers you chopped off the hands of
>record executives' children these days, they would not respond unless
>the accountants gave them the go-ahead.
Well, I ruled out targeting the accountants, because (as should be
obvious) their math skills are nonexistent.
Lani Spahr
> I'm definitely going to investigate many of the other recommendations as they
> ? There are at least three (with Fox, Biggs, and Murphy) but I've never heard
> any of them. Are these worth investigating?
Ducky has rightly pointed out the *4* Saint-Saens Organ Sym recording.
The mono one (the first with Biggs) was recorded, BTW, in Boston
Symphony Hall while the Philley was on tour.
It's been a while since the Ormandy-isms were seen on this list, but
they are such a hoot that I thought I'd post them again. Have fun!!
......................................
Over the years that Eugene Ormandy was conductor of the Philadelphia
Orchestra, some members of the orchestra kept track of malapropisms
and funny inconsistencies in his directions to them. These Ormandy
examples were published in the March 1987 issue of Local 802's journal
_Allegro_. Herewith a selection:
Congratulations to each and every one of you for the concert last
night in New York and vice versa.
I'm conducting very slowly because I don't know the tempo.
I am thinking it right but beating it wrong.
I can conduct better than I count.
Why do you always insist on playing when I am trying to conduct?
Don't ever follow me, because I am difficult.
It is not as difficult as I thought it was, but it is harder than it
is.
The notes are right, but if I listened they would be wrong.
It is not together, but the ensemble is perfect.
Start three bars before something.
Did you play? It sounded very good.
Percussion, a little louder. ("We don't have anything.") That's
right, play it louder.
I need one more bass less.
Brass, stay down all summer.
Accelerando means in tempo. Don't rush.
I don't want to repeat this a hundred times. When you see crescendo,
it means p [piano].
We can't hear the balance yet because the soloist is still on the
airplane.
Please follow me because I have to follow him and he isn't here.
..he is a wonderful man, and so is his wife.
Bizet was a very young man when he composed this symphony, so play it
soft.
That's the way Stravinsky was--Bup, bup, bup. The poor guy's dead
now. Play it legato.
[On Oistrakh's death:] I told him he'd have a heart attack a year
ago, but unfortunately he lived a year longer.
This is a very democratic organizaion, so let's take a vote. All
those who disagree with me raise their hands.
It's all very well to have principles, but when it comes to money you
have to be flexible.
Thank you for your cooperation and vice versa.
I never say what I mean but I always manage to say something similar.
I don't mean to make you nervous, but unfortunately I have to.
* Now we will play something we have never played before. I didn't
mean that. Mahler wrote it as the 3rd Movement of his 4th
Symphony. I mean the 4th Movement of his 1st Symphony - we play
it third. The trumpet solo will be played by our solo trumpet
player. It's named "Blumine" - which has something to do with
flowers.
* With us tonight is William Warfield, who is with us tonight.
* I conduct faster here so you can see my beat.
* The next movement is still in the factory.
* Think of your girlfriend or boyfriend or whomever you want to.
* At every concert I've sensed a certain insecurity about the tempo.
It's clearly marked quarter note = 80, uhh, 69.
* All of you are ready to start so I must be ready.
* It's not important. It's only important when it's late.
* It's difficult to remember when you haven't played it before.
* I cannot give it to you so try to watch me.
* I was trying to help you so I was beating wrong.
* The minute you slow down a fraction, you're behind.
* I wrote it the right way so it was copied the wrong way right - I
mean the right way wrong.
* Who is sitting in that empty chair?
* Bass Clarinetist: What note do I have?
EO: The score is written out the way you hear it the way you play it
- and I have to transpose back to normal.
* Tubist: Long note?
EO: Yes, make it seem short.
* I guess you thought I was conducting, but I wasn't.
* You have to do two things. Watch it and me.
* Even if the right instruments are not here, we will play it anyway.
It's only a short piece.
* I can conduct it better than I count.
* Intonation is important, especially when it is cold.
* I purposely gave you a slower tempo, because I did not know what the
right one was.
* Suddenly I was in the right tempo -- but it wasn't.
* My bowings are only general.
* After two minutes after this time, and I am already there.
* This is one bar you should take home.
* I never know where I am.
* Tonight is the night when 300 years ago Johann Strauss was born.
That's why this year is important.
* There was confusion since I stood here 35 years ago.
* During the rests -- pray.
* It has no rhythm, but it will because it's so much faster.
* Don't play louder, just give it more.
* I don't get into politics, general or musical, but just call me if
you get jury duty. Even in New Jersey I was able to help somebody.
* More basses because you are so far away.
* Relax. Don't be nervous. My God, it's the Philadelphia Orchestra!
* You're looking at me so strangely.
* I purposely didn't do anything and you were all behind.
* It can either be too soon or too late or not together.
* I go forward in tempo.
* There is a shadow on every page.
* You know who you are.
* EO: To the Woodwinds: There are no woodwinds at Number 6.
Woodwinds: We're at number 15.
EO: I know. That is why.
* Start 4 and be 42.
* EO: Percussion a little louder
Percussion: We don't have anything.
EO: That's right, play it louder.
* That C major chord is always out of tune. I don't know why -- it
can't be you.
* Let me explain what I do here. I don't want to confuse you any more
than absolutely necessary.
(To William Smith) Did you play?
WS: Yes.
EO: I know. I heard you.
* Why do you always insist on playing while I'm trying to conduct?
* I think one thing and say another.
* It's hot as hell as can be.
* Start at B. No. Yes. No. Yes. NO.
* Watch me closely -- only one can spoil it.
* Accelerando means in tempo. Don't rush.
* It's so legato it's difficult to splice. Sibelius was famous for
that.
* I can see none of you are smugglers, that's why it's so loud.
* The tempo remains pp.
* Without him here, it is impossible to know how fast he will play it,
approximately.
* We do not know when he is coming. He is coming tomorrow.
* Someone came too sooner.
* After one performance it will be perfect.
* That's the way it was every time I studied it.
* Serkin was so sick he almost died for three days.
* We have to play it longer because there are no numbers or letters.
* Thank you for your cooperation and vice versa.
* Don't think you are looking at me because you are not.
* I mean what I meant.
* Even when you are not playing, you are holding me back.
* Not one of you told me I was too slow - I know I was too slow - why
didn't you tell me?
* He was listening so I don't remember.
* I know this music from memory, not from the music.
* I always feel I do it too slow, but then others do it faster.
* Chorus, I am sorry you have to stand so long, but can you stand
again?
* there is a number missing. I can see it.
* That was perfect. It was just the opposite from what I said
yesterday.
* Yes, the mutes are already on. You took them off in the beginning.
* I am glad you asked me, or am.
* You know me. I'm a maniac when it comes to rhythm.
* I forgive you for shaving yourself.
* It's marked accelerando, so you push ahead.
* Q: is that a G or a G# Maestro? EO: Yes.
* Why do you always start after my beat then rush to catch up? Do you
want us to stay behind?
* (Before walking on stage) Is the audience all here?
* Tonight I'm going to listen with my ears.
* Muti is going to do the Alpine Symphony this year. He will do it
well because it is not very well known.
* I will beat in six because of the distance.
* (In reference to Willy Knappell's death) Death is an awful thing. I
don't believe in it myself.
* (To Kendall Betts) When you have those dark glasses on, I can't tell
whether you're looking at me or doubling.
* Write it down in your own handwriting.
* (To the horns) The trouble is not with you; it is with me. I have to
catch him and then it is too late.
* Let's start at 35 because I don't know where it is.
* (To Cindy Williams, violinist) I don't think I've ever met you. Are
you Swedish?
* If you don't have it in your part, leave it out because there is
enough missing already.
--
----------
Cheers,
Lani Spahr
Bruckner Symphony Versions Discography
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/reingold
Matthew B. Tepper
trans...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Fans of Ormandy may be interested to hear that the upcoming 12-disc
>Philadelphia Orchestra Centennial CD Collection will feature several
>previously unissued stereo broadcasts of repertoire the conductor never
>recorded commercially, including:
>
>* Shostakovich: Symphony No. 6
>* Piston: Symphony No. 7
>* Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima
>* Berg: Violin Concerto (with Leonid Kogan)
>* Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 17 (with Sviatoslav Richter)
>* Mozart: Exsultate, jubilate (with Beverly Sills)
>
>In addition to the above, there will be piano concerto performances
>with Josef Hofmann (Beethoven 4th) and William Kapell (Brahms 1st), as
>well as a live stereo broadcast of Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead"
>and the only PO recording (though not Ormandy's only recording) of
>Schoenberg's "Verklarte Nacht."
>
>Mark Obert-Thorn
>Artistic Consultant for the Philadelphia Orchestra's Centennial CD
>Collection
There will now be a short break while I rush out to buy a small bucket
to put beneath my chin, as I have just begun drooling big-time. Wow!
Ramon Khalona
>
> In article <19990426213444...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
> trans...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >Fans of Ormandy may be interested to hear that the upcoming 12-disc
> >Philadelphia Orchestra Centennial CD Collection will feature several
> >previously unissued stereo broadcasts of repertoire the conductor never
> >recorded commercially, including:
> >
> >* Shostakovich: Symphony No. 6
> >* Piston: Symphony No. 7
> >* Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima
> >* Berg: Violin Concerto (with Leonid Kogan)
> >* Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 17 (with Sviatoslav Richter)
> >* Mozart: Exsultate, jubilate (with Beverly Sills)
> >
> >In addition to the above, there will be piano concerto performances
> >with Josef Hofmann (Beethoven 4th) and William Kapell (Brahms 1st), as
> >well as a live stereo broadcast of Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead"
> >and the only PO recording (though not Ormandy's only recording) of
> >Schoenberg's "Verklarte Nacht."
> >
> >Mark Obert-Thorn
> >Artistic Consultant for the Philadelphia Orchestra's Centennial CD
> >Collection
>
> There will now be a short break while I rush out to buy a small bucket
> to put beneath my chin, as I have just begun drooling big-time. Wow!
>
Ditto, except I don't have a bucket handy. Berg's concerto with Kogan
and Philly, that should be something!
--
Ramón Khalona "La razón no sirve para la existencia"
Carlsbad, California - Ernesto Sábato -
TransfrGuy
Eric Schissel
version of that piece out. There should be .many. Piston's last two
symphonies are wonderful, but currently represented only by one (fine,
thankfully) recording.
-Eric Schissel
--
schi...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/schissel ICQ#7279016
standard disclaimer
David Grayshan
Great, but:
WOT, NO SIBELIUS?
WE WANT SIBELIUS, WE WANT SIBELIUS...........
Joke. It looks great, really. Thanks.
David.
TransfrGuy wrote:
(Announcement snipped)
Raymond Hall
<19990426213444...@ng-cn1.aol.com>...
A very tempting feast indeed. How have these performances come out
soundwise on these discs, and when do they get released? If that isn't
letting out too many trade secrets.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Raymond Hall
> Sarasota wrote:
> > I'm definitely going to investigate many of the other recommendations
as they
> > sound very promising. Did anyone mention Ormandy's Saint-Saens Organ
Symph.
> > ? There are at least three (with Fox, Biggs, and Murphy) but I've never
heard
> > any of them. Are these worth investigating?
>
> Ducky has rightly pointed out the *4* Saint-Saens Organ Sym recording.
> The mono one (the first with Biggs) was recorded, BTW, in Boston
> Symphony Hall while the Philley was on tour.
>
> It's been a while since the Ormandy-isms were seen on this list, but
> they are such a hoot that I thought I'd post them again. Have fun!!
> ......................................
>
> Over the years that Eugene Ormandy was conductor of the Philadelphia
> Orchestra, some members of the orchestra kept track of malapropisms
> and funny inconsistencies in his directions to them. These Ormandy
> examples were published in the March 1987 issue of Local 802's journal
> _Allegro_. Herewith a selection:
>
Thanks Lani - those "Ormandyisms" are real gems. Must have been fun playing
in the Philly orchestra, waiting for the next 'pearl of wisdom'.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
steve wolk
Steve
TransfrGuy wrote:
>
> On 27 Apr 1999, David Grayshan wrote:
>
> >Great, but:
> >
> >WOT, NO SIBELIUS?
> >
> >WE WANT SIBELIUS, WE WANT SIBELIUS...........
>
> Actually, there will be a good deal of Sibelius on the set, but not from
> Ormandy. I found that there were no broadcasts or unreleased recordings of
> works which EO didn't already record commercially at least once in stereo.
> (Sorry, no 3rd or 6th Symphonies.)
>
> Instead, we'll be including two major Sibelius works conducted by Stokowski: a
> live, stereo 2nd Symphony from 1964, and the first release of the 1934 world
> premiere (Victor) recording of the Violin Concerto, with Heifetz and Stokowski.
> Is this enough Sibelius to make it worthwhile for you?
>
> Mark Obert-Thorn
Ward Hardman
: Fans of Ormandy may be interested to hear that the upcoming 12-disc
: Philadelphia Orchestra Centennial CD Collection will feature several
: previously unissued stereo broadcasts of repertoire the conductor never
: recorded commercially, including:
: * Shostakovich: Symphony No. 6
: * Piston: Symphony No. 7
: * Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima
: * Berg: Violin Concerto (with Leonid Kogan)
: * Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 17 (with Sviatoslav Richter)
: * Mozart: Exsultate, jubilate (with Beverly Sills)
: In addition to the above, there will be piano concerto performances with Josef
: Hofmann (Beethoven 4th) and William Kapell (Brahms 1st), as well as a live
: stereo broadcast of Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead" and the only PO recording
: (though not Ormandy's only recording) of Schoenberg's "Verklarte Nacht."
Will there be any recordings of Stokowski or other conductors besides
Ormandy included in this set?
--Ward Hardman
TransfrGuy
Hat NYC 62
premiere (Victor) recording of the Violin Concerto, with Heifetz and Stokowski.
>>
It's about time! Woohoo!
David Hattner, NYC
TransfrGuy
>Will there be any recordings of Stokowski or other conductors besides
>Ormandy included in this set?
All of the Philadelphia's Music Directors who made recordings (Stoki, Ormandy,
Muti and Sawallisch) will be featured, as well as such guest conductors as
Reiner, Scherchen, Walter, Munch, Toscanini, Tennstedt and Kertesz, and
composers conducting their own works (Kodaly, Stravinsky, Virgil Thomson and
Copland). There will also be many great guest soloists, both singers and
instrumentalists (as in the aforementioned Heifetz/Stokowski Sibelius
Concerto).
Mark Obert-Thorn
David Grayshan
TransfrGuy wrote:
> (Snip)
>
> Actually, there will be a good deal of Sibelius on the set, but not from
> Ormandy. I found that there were no broadcasts or unreleased recordings of
> works which EO didn't already record commercially at least once in stereo.
> (Sorry, no 3rd or 6th Symphonies.)
I remember reading a sleeve-note written partly by EO in which he said that he
quite simply did not understand the 3rd. or the 6th! He seems never to have reached
this understanding, as he never recorded them. Schade, dommage, pity, jammer etc.
> Instead, we'll be including two major Sibelius works conducted by Stokowski: a
> live, stereo 2nd Symphony from 1964,
I used to have the RCA mono LP of the 2nd, it was rather good, too. I drool
figuratively at your information.....
> and the first release of the 1934 world premiere (Victor) recording of the Violin
> Concerto, with Heifetz and Stokowski.
Oh, wow, oh wow, etc.
> Is this enough Sibelius to make it worthwhile for you?
>
> Mark Obert-Thorn
Mark, I can never get enough Sibelius. I think I have heard every recording we
mention in these discussions at least once. One or two items remain elusive, e.g.
there was once a 78 rpm. disc of something from the Tempest (I think) conducted by
Schneevoigt with the Berlin Charlottenburg Orchestra, on Odeon (I think): things
like that. The Ehrling cycle from the 1950's still eludes me, it was promised by
Finlandia, but they still haven't done it.
Your promised additions to the discography will be warmly received. Will they be
available on the continent?
Regards,
David.
Lani Spahr
> All of the Philadelphia's Music Directors who made recordings (Stoki, Ormandy,
> Muti and Sawallisch) will be featured, as well as such guest conductors as
> Reiner, Scherchen, Walter, Munch, Toscanini, Tennstedt and Kertesz,
Does anyone know if George Szell ever conducted in Philly? And if he
did, what they thought of him and he of them?
Hat NYC 62
Does anyone know if George Szell ever conducted in Philly? And if he
did, what they thought of him and he of them? >>
He did conduct there. I can't provide more info than that. But, as an orchestra
during Szell's lifetime, there wan't much not to like in Philly!
I did hear that pricipal oboist John DeLancie hated Szell, but have no details
on exactly why.
David Hattner, NYC
Lani Spahr
DeLancie was probably talking with Marc Lifschey :-)
TransfrGuy
>Your promised additions to the discography will be warmly received. Will they
>be
>available on the continent?
We hope to make them as available as the recent New York Philharmonic boxed
sets, i.e., perhaps in selected record stores worldwide, but certainly
available through the Orchestra's website (www.philorch.org) and through phone
orders, as the release date in September nears.
Mark Obert-Thorn
Bruce Morrison
>Hi,
>
>I'm wondering if anyone else here really enjoyed the Columbia Masterworks LP's
>of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from the 1950's and 1960's? I
>grew up listening to many of them and am now trying to locate some of the best
>CD reissues. If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear about
>them.
>
>Thanks
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
After following this interesting thread, I investigated a few web
sites devoted to Ormandy, and on one, there was a mention that RCA are
apparently about to issue an Ormandy set to mark his 100th Centenary.
No details were given about the contents - does anyone have more
information about this?
RCA are sitting on a huge Ormandy legacy and I'm amazed that they have
done so little to exploit it - the few recordings that have made it to
CD have generally been dumped onto their cheapest labels with
non-existent documentation, which I guess indicates RCA's negative
view of this fine conductor's work.
--
Bruce Morrison (bruce.m...@dial.pipex.com)
"If a tune should ever occur to you, don't hesitate to write it down."
(Vaughan Williams' advice on hearing a young composer's latest offering)
Matthew B. Tepper
bruce.m...@dial.pipex.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>After following this interesting thread, I investigated a few web
>sites devoted to Ormandy, and on one, there was a mention that RCA are
>apparently about to issue an Ormandy set to mark his 100th Centenary.
>No details were given about the contents - does anyone have more
>information about this?
Wanna bet it'll be a 100-CD box, available all in a lump or not at all,
and then when the sales are pitiful the execs will put on their biggest
frowny-faces and claim that "nobody wants these recordings"?
>RCA are sitting on a huge Ormandy legacy and I'm amazed that they have
>done so little to exploit it - the few recordings that have made it to
>CD have generally been dumped onto their cheapest labels with
>non-existent documentation, which I guess indicates RCA's negative
>view of this fine conductor's work.
--
Matthew B. Tepper
trans...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>On 11 May 1999, Bruce Morrison wrote:
>
>>After following this interesting thread, I investigated a few web
>>sites devoted to Ormandy, and on one, there was a mention that RCA are
>>apparently about to issue an Ormandy set to mark his 100th Centenary.
>>No details were given about the contents - does anyone have more
>>information about this?
>
>Ormandy retrospective for Biddulph which should be out later this year.
>Among other items, it will have several of his violin solo records,
>both acoustic and electric; some salon orchestra discs on the Judson
>label; Victor recordings with the Minneapolis SO and the Philadelphia,
>featuring repertoire he never re-recorded later in his career; and a
>live Hollywood Bowl Mahler 8th, Part I (a work he never recorded
>commercially), with soloists including George London and Charles
>Kullman.
Yee-hah! That'll be a must-buy for me for certain! And so is....
>(And don't forget that 12-CD Philadelphia Orchestra Centennial
>Collection, which will feature a good amount of Ormandy in live
>broadcasts of symphonic works and concertos.)
>
>Mark Obert-Thorn
TransfrGuy
>After following this interesting thread, I investigated a few web
>sites devoted to Ormandy, and on one, there was a mention that RCA are
>apparently about to issue an Ormandy set to mark his 100th Centenary.
>No details were given about the contents - does anyone have more
>information about this?
I haven't heard about this, but I'm currently putting together a two-CD Ormandy
retrospective for Biddulph which should be out later this year. Among other
items, it will have several of his violin solo records, both acoustic and
electric; some salon orchestra discs on the Judson label; Victor recordings
with the Minneapolis SO and the Philadelphia, featuring repertoire he never
re-recorded later in his career; and a live Hollywood Bowl Mahler 8th, Part I
(a work he never recorded commercially), with soloists including George London
and Charles Kullman.
(And don't forget that 12-CD Philadelphia Orchestra Centennial Collection,