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Monteux/LSO - Rapsodie Espagnole, Pavane, Daphnis & Chloe SACD?
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wanwan
May 20, 2013, 12:09:52 AM5/20/13
to
http://www.amazon.com/Ravel-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Pavane-Daphnis/dp/B009ETI4A6/ref=sr_1_131?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1369021269&sr=1-131
Is this a real SACD? I seem to recall Praga doing some fishy "SACD"
reissues.
The other reason I ask is that Universal Japan was scheduled to issue
this, but cancelled the release for some unexplained reason.
-----------
Eric
Is this a real SACD? I seem to recall Praga doing some fishy "SACD"
reissues.
The other reason I ask is that Universal Japan was scheduled to issue
this, but cancelled the release for some unexplained reason.
-----------
Eric
Gerard
May 20, 2013, 3:53:08 AM5/20/13
to
wanwan <chibi...@gmail.com> typed:
How about the customer reviews there?
They mention the Boston Symphony Orchestra or Abbado.
ClassicsToday reviewed very recently such a Praga 'SACD' with (Decca) recordings
by Ansermet of works by Falla.
The main part of this review is:
>>>
So what is the source of this coupling? The back of the tray card claims that
they are �DSD remastered from stereo live analogue broadcast mastertapes,� which
is patently untrue. The booklet states �Digital mastering SACD from old original
open reel tapes.� This at least is plausible, if not necessarily legal.
I am not in a position to opine on whether or not these recordings are now in
the public domain. If they aren�t, then Praga should not be issuing them, plain
and simple. If they are, then the subject shifts to provenance. All of the
performances have been or remain recently available in excellently remastered
sound, at mid- to budget price. Praga is trying to sell them as SACDs, which of
course they are not, and at a premium price to boot. Everything about this disc,
and the series of which it is a part, fails to pass the smell test as far as I
am concerned. Harmonia Mundi should not be distributing it, and I frankly find
it impossible to recommend it until the question of legality is resolved
unambiguously.
<<<
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/stunning-falla-from-a-suspicious-source/?search=1
They mention the Boston Symphony Orchestra or Abbado.
ClassicsToday reviewed very recently such a Praga 'SACD' with (Decca) recordings
by Ansermet of works by Falla.
The main part of this review is:
>>>
So what is the source of this coupling? The back of the tray card claims that
they are �DSD remastered from stereo live analogue broadcast mastertapes,� which
is patently untrue. The booklet states �Digital mastering SACD from old original
open reel tapes.� This at least is plausible, if not necessarily legal.
I am not in a position to opine on whether or not these recordings are now in
the public domain. If they aren�t, then Praga should not be issuing them, plain
and simple. If they are, then the subject shifts to provenance. All of the
performances have been or remain recently available in excellently remastered
sound, at mid- to budget price. Praga is trying to sell them as SACDs, which of
course they are not, and at a premium price to boot. Everything about this disc,
and the series of which it is a part, fails to pass the smell test as far as I
am concerned. Harmonia Mundi should not be distributing it, and I frankly find
it impossible to recommend it until the question of legality is resolved
unambiguously.
<<<
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/stunning-falla-from-a-suspicious-source/?search=1
wanwan
May 20, 2013, 5:09:29 AM5/20/13
to
------------
Eric
William Sommerwerck
May 20, 2013, 9:00:20 AM5/20/13
to
I don't know what you mean by a "real" SACD.
A CD does not have to be derived from an original PCM source to be a real CD,
nor does an SACD have to be derived from an original DSD source to be a real
SACD.
If a disk is in SACD format, then it is an SACD, regardless of the source or
original format of the recording on it,
As far as I know, no one has ever objected to making DSD tapes from analog
masters and printing "DSD" on the box. PCM can be converted directly to DSD (I
believe). Labelling such an SACD as DSD * would be considered (at the very
least) misleading.
* The acronyms are really piling up, aren't they? (Yes, I know the correct
term is "initialization".)
A CD does not have to be derived from an original PCM source to be a real CD,
nor does an SACD have to be derived from an original DSD source to be a real
SACD.
If a disk is in SACD format, then it is an SACD, regardless of the source or
original format of the recording on it,
As far as I know, no one has ever objected to making DSD tapes from analog
masters and printing "DSD" on the box. PCM can be converted directly to DSD (I
believe). Labelling such an SACD as DSD * would be considered (at the very
least) misleading.
* The acronyms are really piling up, aren't they? (Yes, I know the correct
term is "initialization".)
Frank Berger
May 20, 2013, 10:22:52 AM5/20/13
to
wanwan wrote:
> On Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:53:08 PM UTC-10, Gerard wrote:
>> wanwan <chibi...@gmail.com> typed:
>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ravel-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Pavane-Daphnis/dp/B009ETI4A6/ref=sr_1_131?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1369021269&sr=1-131
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Is this a real SACD? I seem to recall Praga doing some fishy "SACD"
>>
>>> reissues.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The other reason I ask is that Universal Japan was scheduled to
>>> issue
>>
>>> this, but cancelled the release for some unexplained reason.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> How about the customer reviews there?
>>
>> They mention the Boston Symphony Orchestra or Abbado.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ClassicsToday reviewed very recently such a Praga 'SACD' with
>> (Decca) recordings
>>
>> by Ansermet of works by Falla.
>>
>>
>>
>> The main part of this review is:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>> So what is the source of this coupling? The back of the tray card
>> claims that
>>
>> they are �DSD remastered from stereo live analogue broadcast
> On Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:53:08 PM UTC-10, Gerard wrote:
>> wanwan <chibi...@gmail.com> typed:
>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ravel-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Pavane-Daphnis/dp/B009ETI4A6/ref=sr_1_131?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1369021269&sr=1-131
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Is this a real SACD? I seem to recall Praga doing some fishy "SACD"
>>
>>> reissues.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The other reason I ask is that Universal Japan was scheduled to
>>> issue
>>
>>> this, but cancelled the release for some unexplained reason.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> How about the customer reviews there?
>>
>> They mention the Boston Symphony Orchestra or Abbado.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ClassicsToday reviewed very recently such a Praga 'SACD' with
>> (Decca) recordings
>>
>> by Ansermet of works by Falla.
>>
>>
>>
>> The main part of this review is:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>> So what is the source of this coupling? The back of the tray card
>> claims that
>>
>> mastertapes,� which
>>
>> is patently untrue. The booklet states �Digital mastering SACD
>> from old original
>>
>> open reel tapes.� This at least is plausible, if not necessarily
>> legal.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not in a position to opine on whether or not these recordings
>> are now in
>>
>> the public domain. If they aren�t, then Praga should not be
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not in a position to opine on whether or not these recordings
>> are now in
>>
>> issuing them, plain
>>
>> and simple. If they are, then the subject shifts to provenance. All
>> of the
>>
>> performances have been or remain recently available in excellently
>> remastered
>>
>> sound, at mid- to budget price. Praga is trying to sell them as
>> SACDs, which of
>>
>> course they are not, and at a premium price to boot. Everything
>> about this disc,
>>
>> and the series of which it is a part, fails to pass the smell test
>> as far as I
>>
>> am concerned. Harmonia Mundi should not be distributing it, and I
>> frankly find
>>
>> it impossible to recommend it until the question of legality is
>> resolved
>>
>> unambiguously.
>>
>> <<<
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.classicstoday.com/review/stunning-falla-from-a-suspicious-source/?search=1
>
> Amazon had some screw up as regards to what the original SKU# was so
> thus the Abbado recordings mentioned in the customer reviews.
>
> ------------
> Eric
When did Praga morph from a respectable (or so I thought) reissuer of mostly
>>
>> and simple. If they are, then the subject shifts to provenance. All
>> of the
>>
>> performances have been or remain recently available in excellently
>> remastered
>>
>> sound, at mid- to budget price. Praga is trying to sell them as
>> SACDs, which of
>>
>> course they are not, and at a premium price to boot. Everything
>> about this disc,
>>
>> and the series of which it is a part, fails to pass the smell test
>> as far as I
>>
>> am concerned. Harmonia Mundi should not be distributing it, and I
>> frankly find
>>
>> it impossible to recommend it until the question of legality is
>> resolved
>>
>> unambiguously.
>>
>> <<<
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.classicstoday.com/review/stunning-falla-from-a-suspicious-source/?search=1
>
> Amazon had some screw up as regards to what the original SKU# was so
> thus the Abbado recordings mentioned in the customer reviews.
>
> ------------
> Eric
Czech recordings to an apparently shady operation?
Alan Cooper
May 20, 2013, 10:59:06 AM5/20/13
to
"Frank Berger" <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3KSdndDpJ_JVrAfM...@supernews.com:
> When did Praga morph from a respectable (or so I thought) reissuer of
> mostly Czech recordings to an apparently shady operation?
That's a good question, and they weren't just a reissuer, but also the
originator of some excellent recordings (Prazak & Kocian SQ, e.g.). I
became aware of their shady side with the appearance of the notorious
Dohnanyi issue, allegedly purloined from a previous EMI reissue with the
addition of a poor transfer from LP of the PC#2.
I guess it's the Wild East out there.
AC
news:3KSdndDpJ_JVrAfM...@supernews.com:
> When did Praga morph from a respectable (or so I thought) reissuer of
> mostly Czech recordings to an apparently shady operation?
originator of some excellent recordings (Prazak & Kocian SQ, e.g.). I
became aware of their shady side with the appearance of the notorious
Dohnanyi issue, allegedly purloined from a previous EMI reissue with the
addition of a poor transfer from LP of the PC#2.
I guess it's the Wild East out there.
AC
Mort
May 20, 2013, 11:50:44 AM5/20/13
to
I have two Praga CDs marked SACD that are absolutely not what they are
claimed to be. You know, if you put a sign on the forehead of a cow that
says, "I am a racehorse", it is still a cow. Caveat emptor.
Mort
William Sommerwerck
May 20, 2013, 12:06:18 PM5/20/13
to
> I have two Praga CDs marked SACD that are absolutely not
> what they are claimed to be.
What is the claim? And how does the disk or recording differ?
> what they are claimed to be.
Steve de Mena
May 20, 2013, 12:42:34 PM5/20/13
to
Steve
Gerard
May 20, 2013, 12:57:32 PM5/20/13
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
copyright at that)?
> > I have two Praga CDs marked SACD that are absolutely not
> > what they are claimed to be.
>
> What is the claim? And how does the disk or recording differ?
Dont' you think that their source (for a SACD) is a CD (a CD that is under
> > what they are claimed to be.
>
> What is the claim? And how does the disk or recording differ?
copyright at that)?
William Sommerwerck
May 20, 2013, 1:27:29 PM5/20/13
to
"Steve de Mena" wrote in message
news:nt2dnWquEdrmzwfM...@giganews.com...
quality? The same thing could be said about 99% of CDs!
news:nt2dnWquEdrmzwfM...@giganews.com...
On 5/20/13 6:00 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> I don't know what you mean by a "real" SACD.
> A CD does not have to be derived from an original PCM source to be a
> real CD, nor does an SACD have to be derived from an original DSD
> source to be a real SACD.
> If a disk is in SACD format, then it is an SACD, regardless of the
> source or original format of the recording on it,
> As far as I know, no one has ever objected to making DSD tapes from
> analog masters and printing "DSD" on the box. PCM can be converted
> directly to DSD (I believe). Labelling such an SACD as DSD would be
> I don't know what you mean by a "real" SACD.
> A CD does not have to be derived from an original PCM source to be a
> real CD, nor does an SACD have to be derived from an original DSD
> source to be a real SACD.
> If a disk is in SACD format, then it is an SACD, regardless of the
> source or original format of the recording on it,
> As far as I know, no one has ever objected to making DSD tapes from
> analog masters and printing "DSD" on the box. PCM can be converted
> considered (at the very least) misleading.
> He meant to say that some Praga SACDs sound like shit.
So an SACD isn't a "real" SACD unless it reaches a certain level of sound
quality? The same thing could be said about 99% of CDs!
Gerard
May 20, 2013, 2:11:01 PM5/20/13
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
Meaning that only 1% of all CDs reach "a certain level of sound quality"?
This is based on your research?
This is based on your research?
Chew Chiat Naun
May 22, 2013, 6:56:25 PM5/22/13
to
A plausible explanation I've seen offered is that Praga licensed the DSD remasters after Universal Japan cancelled their planned release.
William Sommerwerck
May 22, 2013, 7:38:07 PM5/22/13
to
I recently bought a Praga SACD of Dohnanyi (pere) conducting and performing
his own works. The "Variations on a Nursery Song" is an early stereo
recording, dating from 1956.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=201683
The sound is decent overall, but occasionally hard and ratty/harsh. I'm not
sure what justifies an SACD reissue, but (as the Emperor of Austria would say)
"there it is".
his own works. The "Variations on a Nursery Song" is an early stereo
recording, dating from 1956.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=201683
The sound is decent overall, but occasionally hard and ratty/harsh. I'm not
sure what justifies an SACD reissue, but (as the Emperor of Austria would say)
"there it is".
Paul
May 22, 2013, 9:35:11 PM5/22/13
to
On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 4:38:07 PM UTC-7, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> I recently bought a Praga SACD of Dohnanyi (pere) conducting and performing
>
> his own works. . . .
> I recently bought a Praga SACD of Dohnanyi (pere) conducting and performing
>
"Pere"?
William Sommerwerck
May 23, 2013, 10:35:37 AM5/23/13
to
In going through back issues of "High Fidelity", I found a review of this
recording on page 74 of the 12/1957 issue.
recording on page 74 of the 12/1957 issue.
Gerard
May 23, 2013, 12:08:28 PM5/23/13
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> typed:
> In going through back issues of "High Fidelity", I found a review of
> this recording on page 74 of the 12/1957 issue.
And?
> this recording on page 74 of the 12/1957 issue.
MiNe 109
May 23, 2013, 1:29:08 PM5/23/13
to
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