Great Piano Music since 1950
Matthew B. Tepper
Rzewski, Variations on "The People United Will Never Be Defeated!"
Just for starters.
In article <36cb38fb...@news.supernews.com>,
jgc...@ibm.net.NOSPAM pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>If one accepts the publicity at face value, the current Philips
>mega-series "Great Pianists of the 20th Century" displays the
>prodigious talents of the selected artists. Of course, it should also
>highlight great piano music per se.
>
>Looking at the full list of recordings to be covered, I cannot help
>feeling a sense of disppointment at the narrowness of the chosen
>repertoire. There is an enormous amount of Chopin and Liszt, together
>with all the usual suspects - Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Schumann,
>Debussy et al.
>
>Even though about 40% of these "great" pianists are still alive, there
>is virtually no piano music from the second half of this century. The
>only exceptions that I can see are the Bennett Piano Concerto (by
>Kovacevich) and a couple of short mid-century pieces by Rorem.
>
>I am interested in the views of this NG:
>
>What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should
>be championed now by our best artists? Have these works been
>recorded?
>
>Perhaps, we can work up a list of "modern" piano music for essential
>listening.
>
>TIA
>
>Jack
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Jack Crawford
John Grabowski
The Samuel Barber Piano Concerto. Seems no one plays this these days.
John
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect
sweetness the independence of solitude.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Otto Renner
jgc...@ibm.net.NOSPAM wrote:
> What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should be
> championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
>
> Perhaps, we can work up a list of "modern" piano music for essential
> listening.
Barraqué: sonata
Boulez: sonatas 1-3
Carter: night fantasies, 90+, sonata
Nancarrow: works for player piano
Stockhausen: Klavierstücke I-XI
...and just about anything by Babbitt.
Otto
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Pearl's Girl
> > What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should be
> > championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
> >
> > Perhaps, we can work up a list of "modern" piano music for essential
> > listening.
>
> The Samuel Barber Piano Concerto. Seems no one plays this these days.
>
Actually, it's because it's disturbingly difficult. I heard Browning (who
else) play it live, and was thrilled from beginning to end.
I nominate *any* Barber piano music for worthwhile modern piano music in
general, especially the Sonata. I'll think some and come up with some
more, but Barber always will be the top of my list.
-- The Ice Queen *** Alexis Zingale *** azin...@kiva.net
***http://stockdale.resnet.rochester.edu/~minor***
"You come from the same circle of hell as Grey Poupon, don't you?"
-- Gregory Lent
it's a perfect day for making out/to wake up with a smile without a doubt/
to burst grin giggle bliss skip jump sing and shout/
let's get happy!/ *--* "doing the unstuck", The Cure
Andy Evans
recording his complete piano works. Andy
Benjamin Maso
Jack Crawford wrote in message <36cb38fb...@news.supernews.com>...
>If one accepts the publicity at face value, the current Philips mega-series
>"Great Pianists of the 20th Century" displays the prodigious talents of the
>selected artists. Of course, it should also highlight great piano music
>per se.
>
>Looking at the full list of recordings to be covered, I cannot help feeling
>a sense of disppointment at the narrowness of the chosen repertoire.
>There is an enormous amount of Chopin and Liszt, together with all the
>usual suspects - Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Schumann, Debussy et al.
>
>Even though about 40% of these "great" pianists are still alive, there is
>virtually no piano music from the second half of this century. The only
>exceptions that I can see are the Bennett Piano Concerto (by Kovacevich)
>and a couple of short mid-century pieces by Rorem.
>
>I am interested in the views of this NG:
>
>championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
>
>Perhaps, we can work up a list of "modern" piano music for essential
>listening.
In the first place the piano music of Olivier Messiaen, for instance Vingt
regards sur l'enfant Jesus and the Catalogue des oiseaux. Both have been
recorded several times (there are very good recordings on Naxos by Haakon
Austbo). Further the pianosonata's of Galina Ustvolskaya and her concertino
for piano, string orchestra and timpani, Sofia Gubaidulina's Introitus for
piano and chamber orchestra. And of course Michael Nyman's Piano Concerto,
which can become a classic. And there is much more.
Benjo Maso
Deryk Barker
And *nobody* has yet mentioned Frederick Rzewski's masterpiec, The
People United?
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |
M*T
are also the Sessions sonatas, tremendous works that should be played
more often. Also, Donald Martino's Fantasies and Impromptus (1981) and
Suite in the old form (1982) are truly excellent. I am also fond of
Persichetti's piano and harpsichord music, including his fantastic piano
concerto, spectacularly recorded by Taub for New World Records.
These are just a few; there is a lot of good music out there.
Regards,
mt
vladimir
with what I think is open-mindedness and persistence
many 20th century works. I've listened to the Boulez
sonatas repeatedly, day after day, and Stockhousen's
Klavierworks until I boggled. I had a good whack at
Rosen playing Elliot Carter. I've listened to the big
Messiaen cycles, in part or even in whole, a number
of times. The list gets pretty long. Contemporary
piano music has a regular place in my weekly music
listening.
Trouble is, I've experienced almost zero noticeable
reward for the aforementioned efforts. It really looks
at this point like a waste of time. There have been a
few interesting things - Rzewski's People United, for
example, though there are limits to the variation form.
I'm not to the point of giving up on newer piano music,
but if I had to make a judgement on the whole bundle
based on what I've heard so far, I'd say "Junk."
- Phil Caron
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <7af4kr$3n6$4...@news.islandnet.com>, dba...@camosun.bc.nospam.ca
pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>
--
M*T
<<To you I'm "*nobody*"????? Thanks a heap!!!!!>>
The committee has already conferred two honorary titles on you:
1) Godfather of r.m.c.r;
2) An Internet knighthood.
and (I think it's safe to leak this) you are being considered by the
American Spambusters Association (ASPAMA) for its highest honor, the
Golden Can.
Regards,
mt
Wayne Reimer
>
> If one accepts the publicity at face value, the current Philips mega-series
> "Great Pianists of the 20th Century" displays the prodigious talents of the
> selected artists. Of course, it should also highlight great piano music
> per se.
>
> Looking at the full list of recordings to be covered, I cannot help feeling
> a sense of disppointment at the narrowness of the chosen repertoire.
> There is an enormous amount of Chopin and Liszt, together with all the
> usual suspects - Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Schumann, Debussy et al.
>
> Even though about 40% of these "great" pianists are still alive, there is
> virtually no piano music from the second half of this century. The only
> exceptions that I can see are the Bennett Piano Concerto (by Kovacevich)
> and a couple of short mid-century pieces by Rorem.
>
> I am interested in the views of this NG:
>
> What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should be
> championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
>
> Perhaps, we can work up a list of "modern" piano music for essential
> listening.
>
>
> Jack
Vincent Persichetti's sonatas are essential, I think. All of them
deserve multiple recordings.
Adams' Phrygian Gates does have recordings, thank goodness. Wish he'd
do more solo piano pieces.
Carlos Chavez's 10 Preludes are a magnificent set; no recording! Coming
from 1937, they may be too old for this thread (but they don't sound
old).
There is a fascinating set of pieces by Sebastian Currier called Theo's
Sketchbook that I think should be explored by more pianists. There's a
recording on New World Records.
The sonatas of Boris Tischenko are very interesting. I know of three
that have been recorded.
Stephan Hough has recorded George Tsontakis' Ghost Variations; seems
like worthwhile music.
Like most of his music, Ligeti's Etudes have become instant classics.
Recorded at least twice, so far, but I expect they'll get more attention
as time passes.
WR
Matthew B. Tepper
>
Yeah, but Deryk called me "*nobody*"!!! (And that's with asterisks!)
Gene Homel
> What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should be
> championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
Shostakovich's Preludes and Fugues Op 87, and a little before 1950,
Prokofiev's late sonatas.
And, of course, Bill Evans. :))
Peter Lemken
I am afraid I have to agree with Phil here. I suffered two
years at conservatory studying the Piano with a Professor
whose sole aim was to convince all his students about the
greatness of 20th century piano music. He recorded all
Stockhausen pieces and assigned each of us one of them to
learn. I turned pages in four of the Rihm pieces, I suffered
through lectures about Nancarrow, Cage, Stockhausen, Kalitzke
and many others. Yet, having listend to this music, having
studied it at that time, I wouldn't dream of listening to it
today with any pleasure to be expected.
There are exceptions, of course: Nono's "Sofferte onde serene",
Corigliano's last commission for the Van Cliburn competition,
Denissov's Haendel-Variations and Kefalidi's 2 sonatas.
But for me the 20th century in terms of piano music mainly
consists of Scriabin, Prokofiev, Poulenc, Barber, Ginastera,
Schchedrin, Debussy, Ravel, Berg, Bartok and Stravinsky.
Most certainly it does not consist of Boulez, Stockhausen, Webern,
Schoenberg, Nancarrow and all the other un-pianistic, harmonically
irrelevant and anti-motivic mathematical constructs to these ears.
Peter Lemken
Berlin
Otto Renner
"vladimir" <vlad...@vermontel.com> wrote:
> As a fledgling pianophile I have approached
> with what I think is open-mindedness and persistence
> many 20th century works. I've listened to the Boulez
> sonatas repeatedly, day after day, and Stockhousen's
> Klavierworks until I boggled. I had a good whack at
> Rosen playing Elliot Carter. I've listened to the big
> Messiaen cycles, in part or even in whole, a number
> of times. The list gets pretty long. Contemporary
> piano music has a regular place in my weekly music
> listening.
>
> Trouble is, I've experienced almost zero noticeable
> reward for the aforementioned efforts. It really looks
> at this point like a waste of time. There have been a
> few interesting things - Rzewski's People United, for
> example, though there are limits to the variation form.
> I'm not to the point of giving up on newer piano music,
> but if I had to make a judgement on the whole bundle
> based on what I've heard so far, I'd say "Junk."
That's a shame. I take great enjoyment in the piano music of this century. I'm
afraid that in my "almost zero noticeable reward" category are the works of
Chopin, Liszt, and -- with rare exception -- Schubert, relegating most of
Philips' Great Pianists series to my personal "Junk" bin.
Deryk Barker
: To you I'm "*nobody*"????? Thanks a heap!!!!!
:
: In article <7af4kr$3n6$4...@news.islandnet.com>, dba...@camosun.bc.nospam.ca
: pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
: >
: >
: > And *nobody* has yet mentioned Frederick Rzewski's masterpiec, The
: >People United?
OK, I need my eyes testing.
(Jeez, some people are *so* sensitive)
Eric Schissel
the latter work dates after 1950) almost certainly qualify as would
Sessions' 5 piano pieces and 3rd piano sonata, I would think. Perhaps
Robert Simpson's late piano music as well, if what I heard on the radio
was any indication. Just for starters.
-Eric Schissel
--
schi...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/schissel ICQ#7279016
standard disclaimer
John Gavin
other times his piano works sound contrived.
I consider the Ives "Concord" Sonata to be a genuine 20th Century
Masterpiece.
The composer I return to the most for modern piano works is Sorabji. I
can only say that I derive more pleasure from listening to his piano
music than any other late 20th century composer. Perhaps the reason is
partially that his music is the most pianistic of any recent composer.
Matthew B. Tepper
jg...@webtv.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>I'm often "on the line" with Messiaen. At times it is enjoyable and at
>other times his piano works sound contrived.
>
>I consider the Ives "Concord" Sonata to be a genuine 20th Century
>Masterpiece.
So do I, but wasn't it essentially finished before Kirkpatrick's first
recording (in the late 1940s)? In that case, it was (at most) only
fiddled with after 1950.
(But then what do I know -- I'm "*nobody*", after all!)
Bob Lombard
I believe that Phil doesn't realize that "modern" music is
sneaking up on him. I have heard him express a liking for
Charles Ives, and some of Berg. Can Eliot Carter be far
behind?
Bob L
Chuck Nessa
CN
vladimir
Bob Lombard wrote in message <36CCC597...@vermontel.net>...
I don't care much for the piano music of Ives or Berg -
it's their contributions in other genres that I like. However,
other posts in this thread have reminded me of a few "modern"
piano works I like, e.g. Shostakovich's Op. 87. In know there
were others I thought were good, but I can't remember them
well enough to name them without consulting my database.
- Phil
David
Well, there must be close to half a dozen recordings of Elliott Carter's Night
Fantasies, composed circa 1980. Charles Rosen, one of the four pianists for
whom it was composed (the others being Gilbert Kalish, Paul Jacobs, and Ursula
Oppens, champions of Carter all), considers it the finest work for solo
keyboard since the major piano works of Ravel. (I love Carter's music and have
heard Night Fantasies played live 3 or 4 times but have never quite succeeded
in entering its sound world.) The most poetic and fantastical piano music I
know written since World War II is the middle movement of Boulez's 3rd Piano
Sonata, Constellation/Miroir. Unfortunately, Charles Rosen's recording of the
3rd sonata has never been reissued on CD, and only more prosaics practitioners
of the piece are represented on CD.
-david gable
Wayne Reimer
>
> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, John Grabowski wrote:
>
> > > What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950 that should be
> > > championed now by our best artists? Have these works been recorded?
> > >
> > > listening.
> >
> >
>
> Actually, it's because it's disturbingly difficult. I heard Browning (who
> else) play it live, and was thrilled from beginning to end.
>
> I nominate *any* Barber piano music for worthwhile modern piano music in
> general, especially the Sonata. I'll think some and come up with some
> more, but Barber always will be the top of my list.
>
Anybody out there know how the Barber got the reputation of being
difficult? It isn't particularly difficult at all, but I've heard it
described as such many times. Probably marketing spin.
I remember checking it out of the library in my college days to read
through it and being surprised at how easy it was relative to my
expectations after hearing the Browning recording. Definitely a case of
effective writing.
WR
Jack Crawford
>> that should be championed now by our best artists?
Thanks for all the contributions. Some of the works mentioned, especially
by the American composers, are unfamiliar to me. I'll try and check them
out.
Nevertheless, I cannot help wondering how many of these modern piano pieces
(apart from the Shostakovich preludes) will last the distance and become
part of the main piano repertory in, say, thirty to fifty years.
Are the top pianists championing particular modern compositions? Pollini
used to play a lot of contemporary music; e.g. I have an oldish copy of him
playing the Masse for piano and orchestra by Manzoni (Pollini was the
dedicatee).
TIA
Jack
Eric Schissel
>>> What high-quality piano music has been composed since 1950
>>> that should be championed now by our best artists?
>Thanks for all the contributions. Some of the works mentioned, especially
>by the American composers, are unfamiliar to me. I'll try and check them
>out.
>Nevertheless, I cannot help wondering how many of these modern piano pieces
>(apart from the Shostakovich preludes) will last the distance and become
>part of the main piano repertory in, say, thirty to fifty years.
Which is hardly a prerequisite for being "great". Moreover, in the past,
many pieces have disappeared for thirty to fifty years, only to reappear
one hundred or one hundred and fifty years later. Let's not dictate to
the future, let's just give them suggestions... as I think is all we've
been doing.
>Are the top pianists championing particular modern compositions? Pollini
>used to play a lot of contemporary music; e.g. I have an oldish copy of him
>playing the Masse for piano and orchestra by Manzoni (Pollini was the
>dedicatee).
With the exception of a few (Hamelin is .certainly. a top pianist), no,
they haven't, but then, this isn't the 19th century, this is the 20th
century, where it's cool to be an ostrich and bury your head in the past.
Deryk Barker
: In article <2699-36...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
: >
: >I'm often "on the line" with Messiaen. At times it is enjoyable and at
: >other times his piano works sound contrived.
: >
: >I consider the Ives "Concord" Sonata to be a genuine 20th Century
: >Masterpiece.
:
: So do I, but wasn't it essentially finished before Kirkpatrick's first
: recording (in the late 1940s)? In that case, it was (at most) only
: fiddled with after 1950.
:
: (But then what do I know -- I'm "*nobody*", after all!)
Dr. Mr. Body, I may I call you "No"? (You gotta get over this, I
apologised once already)...
Kirkpatrick recorded the Concord in 1949 but he premiered it in 1939
and I believe it was essentially complete then. Ives recorded some
Improvisations on Emerson (Emerson?) during his 1942 sessions (WHEN
ARE BLOODY SONY GOING TO REISSUE TH$E MISSING STUFF FROM THE IVES
CENTENARY BOX????????)
So I agree, it doesn't count.
evan johnson
wrote:
>Anybody out there know how the Barber got the reputation of being
>difficult? It isn't particularly difficult at all, but I've heard it
>described as such many times. Probably marketing spin.
>
>I remember checking it out of the library in my college days to read
>through it and being surprised at how easy it was relative to my
>expectations after hearing the Browning recording. Definitely a case of
>effective writing.
Anyone who can read through the fugal Finale at first sight will
hereby be worshipped as a pianistic god.
The second and third movements aren't particularly difficult
technically, the first a little more so, but he pulls out all the
stops in the fugue.
evan
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>Matthew B. Tepper (du...@deltanet.com) wrote:
>: In article <2699-36...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
>: jg...@webtv.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>: >
>: >I'm often "on the line" with Messiaen. At times it is enjoyable and
>: >at other times his piano works sound contrived.
>: >
>: >I consider the Ives "Concord" Sonata to be a genuine 20th Century
>: >Masterpiece.
>:
>: So do I, but wasn't it essentially finished before Kirkpatrick's first
>: recording (in the late 1940s)? In that case, it was (at most) only
>: fiddled with after 1950.
>:
>: (But then what do I know -- I'm "*nobody*", after all!)
>
>Dr. Mr. Body, I may I call you "No"? (You gotta get over this, I
>apologised once already)...
Oh, I'm off on a different campaign now, as you may have noticed. ;--)
>Kirkpatrick recorded the Concord in 1949 but he premiered it in 1939
>and I believe it was essentially complete then. Ives recorded some
>Improvisations on Emerson (Emerson?) during his 1942 sessions (WHEN
>ARE BLOODY SONY GOING TO REISSUE TH$E MISSING STUFF FROM THE IVES
>CENTENARY BOX????????)
>
>So I agree, it doesn't count.
Which brings back a nagging memory; what ever happened to the possibility
that (let me disguise the name a little bit here) Foozical Feritage
Foziety might issue some of the back-catalogue stuff that Sony is too
bored to deal with? Is there any life in that idea yet? I guess we'll
just have to wait for a comment from Fark Fenfoos.