Brahms Symphonies - Bruno Walter : Which recording?
Phaeton
I'd like to know Walter conducting Brahms Symphonies, but there are a
number of recordings:
Andromeda:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/9929337?rk=home&rsk=hitlist
United Artists:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/5814718?rk=home&rsk=hitlist
Sony:
http://www.discolandmail.com/catalogo-100060.htm
What's the best recording?
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance
Phaeton
John Wilson
All the ones you list are of Walter's NY Philharmonic mono recordings.
(There is a later Columbia Sym. Orch. stereo set but that's a horse of
a different color.)
The United Artist set has the advantage of being complete as it
contains the two Overtures and the Haydn Variations. The Sony set
only contains the four symphonies.
Friends and I did an A/B one evening of the United Artist, Sony and
long OOP Japanese Sony sets shortly after the United Artist set was
released and found that the transfers were all excellent.
I would go for the United Artist set due to it's completeness
John
Dontait...@aol.com
> On 24 Oct 2007 04:25:28 -0700, Phaeton <phaeton_...@libero.it> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi all!
>
> >I'd like to know Walter conducting Brahms Symphonies, but there are a
> >number of recordings:
>
> >Andromeda:
>
> >United Artists:
> >http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/5814718?rk=home&rsk=hit...
>
> >Sony:
> >http://www.discolandmail.com/catalogo-100060.htm
>
> >What's the best recording?
> >Any suggestions?
>
> >Thanks in advance
>
> >Phaeton
>
> All the ones you list are of Walter's NY Philharmonic mono recordings.
> (There is a later Columbia Sym. Orch. stereo set but that's a horse of
> a different color.)
>
> The United Artist set has the advantage of being complete as it
> contains the two Overtures and the Haydn Variations. The Sony set
> only contains the four symphonies.
>
> Friends and I did an A/B one evening of the United Artist, Sony and
> long OOP Japanese Sony sets shortly after the United Artist set was
> released and found that the transfers were all excellent.
>
> I would go for the United Artist set due to it's completeness
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've only heard the Sony, which does sound very good, but John's
experience indicates that the United Artists is as good sonically and
he's correct about the advantage of having the other titles. They're
brilliantly done. I've heard few performances of the Tragic Overture
to equal this one and none that seemed finer.
And yes, the Columbia Symphony set is a horse of a different color
indeed. Slower tempi, a smaller orchestra, and a distinctly lower
emotional temperature. The finale of no. 2 with the Philharmonic is
hair-raising and is one of the few commercial recordings by Walter
I've heard that approaches the kind of high voltage that was a part of
his live performances.
Don Tait
Andy Evans
> indeed. Slower tempi, a smaller orchestra, and a distinctly lower
> emotional temperature. The finale of no. 2 with the Philharmonic is
> hair-raising and is one of the few commercial recordings by Walter
> I've heard that approaches the kind of high voltage that was a part of
> his live performances.
I love those Columbia versions. the recording is so much better, and
Brahms in stereo goes some way towards the orchestral beauty of sound
that I really need to hear in this. I find these performances subtle,
moving and full of intelligent nuances. I don't need the electricity -
I listen for other things and in any case I wouldn't put electricity
at the top of my list of wants even though it's generally lauded in
these columns. Far from it - beauty of line and texture and a tight
control of the dramatic content is what moves this particular Brahms
fan. I'd add that no. 2 is my favourite and what I consider one of the
great performances of it.
Todd Schurk
I must agree...what is the current availability status of the stereo
Walter/Columbia Brahms symphonies? Are you there Jeremy
Meyers?....Hello Sony/BMG Classical.....?? Anybody home??? Todd S
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:1193250567.426422.281700
@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
> I must agree...what is the current availability status of the stereo
> Walter/Columbia Brahms symphonies? Are you there Jeremy Meyers?....
> Hello Sony/BMG Classical.....?? Anybody home??? Todd S
Jeremy tends to look in from time to time; I don't think he reads this
group constantly.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
John
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Sony Music Store shows the following still available:
SMK 64471 Symphonies 2, 3
SMK 64472 Symphony 4, Tragic Overture, Schicksalslied
Todd Schurk
Thanks for the info...maybe they will put a set together
eventually...Todd S
Matthew B. Tepper
Well, these stereo recordings were all issued in Japan back in 1984, and so
far as I am aware they've never issued them as a set in those intervening
twenty-three years.
Steve de Mena
I see them on Amazon for about $7 new (each). 3 single CDs.
Steve
Walter Traprock
> > I must agree...what is the current availability status of the stereo
> > Walter/Columbia Brahms symphonies? Are you there Jeremy
> > Meyers?....Hello Sony/BMG Classical.....?? Anybody home??? Todd S
>
> I see them on Amazon for about $7 new (each). 3 single CDs.
2 of the 3 are there; the problem is that one of the discs appears to
be deleted. Why start a broken set (unless you want it) or attempt to
"backorder" out-of-print items like the 4th/tragic disc from the
non-stocking dealers like Caiman. Then again, it could be soon
restocked by sony, just like RCA recently restocked the Davis Schubert
box set that seemed unobtainable online for a long while, and now is
everywhere.
Steve de Mena
I see all three there. Look again under "Used and New" and you'll
see New copies listed.
I have received all items from 100+ caiman.com orders I have placed.
Steve
Walter Traprock
Perhaps you only order newly released cds from Caiman. These Walter
discs from sony show an issue date of 1995. I don't think I bought
any music at all in 1995.
Steve de Mena
> Steve de Mena <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>
>> Walter Traprock wrote:
>>> Steve de Mena <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I must agree...what is the current availability status of the stereo
>>>>> Walter/Columbia Brahms symphonies? Are you there Jeremy
>>>>> Meyers?....Hello Sony/BMG Classical.....?? Anybody home??? Todd S
>>>> I see them on Amazon for about $7 new (each). 3 single CDs.
>>> 2 of the 3 are there; the problem is that one of the discs appears to
>>> be deleted. Why start a broken set (unless you want it) or attempt to
>>> "backorder" out-of-print items like the 4th/tragic disc from the
>>> non-stocking dealers like Caiman. Then again, it could be soon
>>> restocked by sony, just like RCA recently restocked the Davis Schubert
>>> box set that seemed unobtainable online for a long while, and now is
>>> everywhere.
>> I see all three there. Look again under "Used and New" and you'll
>> see New copies listed.
>>
>> I have received all items from 100+ caiman.com orders I have placed.
>
> Perhaps you only order newly released cds from Caiman.
Nope.
Steve
MW
> And yes, the Columbia Symphony set is a horse of a different color
> indeed. Slower tempi, a smaller orchestra, and a distinctly lower
> emotional temperature. The finale of no. 2 with the Philharmonic is
> hair-raising and is one of the few commercial recordings by Walter
> I've heard that approaches the kind of high voltage that was a part of
> his live performances.
> Don Tait
Walter's NYP performances on Nuova Era do seem to demonstrate what you
are talking about here. Have you heard his Brahms 2 on that label? I
have wondered if it wasn't a dub of the studio recording.
Steve de Mena
BTW I ordered the Columbia Symphony Brahms 4 from Caiman yesterday and
got an email this morning that it has already shipped.
Steve
Walter Traprock
> BTW I ordered the Columbia Symphony Brahms 4 from Caiman yesterday and
> got an email this morning that it has already shipped.
An e-mail from caiman or an e-mail from amazon? In my experience
caiman did not send e-mails unless a response to an inquiry about
non-delivery.
thoren...@yahoo.com
The VPO,the 1934/6 ones with The BBC SO M-341(#3),and M-242 (#4).
I believe Koch issued these on CD a few years back.These are well
worth picking up.My favorites are still the PSONY ones from the mono
Lp era.
Roger
A. Brain
news:Xns99D38415821...@216.168.3.70...
> Well, these stereo recordings were all issued in Japan back in 1984,
> and so > far as I am aware they've never issued them as a set in those
> intervening
> twenty-three years.
I had all of them on LP, as they were regarded by
most of the critics as among the best versions,
and also fine recordings technically. I have the
1st on a Odyssey CD from the CBS days, and
the 2d and 3d on a CD from the Bruno Walter
Edition.
The first movement of 1 is said by some to
represent Walter at his best. Very intense.
I still like Klemperer, but what a shame that
the cover photos on the LP set have not
reappeared. They're almost cartoonish.
And of course the LP set has a nice little
booklet with notes on each work.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Steve de Mena
From Caiman. I count 83 emails in my Inbox from 2007, none are
responses to inquiries. There is generally one email to acknowledge
the order and then a 2nd to tell me when it shipped from their
distribution center.
Steve
------ Forwarded Message
From: <in...@caiman.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:10:42 -0500
To: <ama...@stevedemena.com>
Subject: Your Order shipped from our distribution center!
Resent-From: <ama...@stevedemena.com>
Resent-To: <sde...@annex.com>
Resent-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:06:07 -0700
Dear Customer,
Your order 058-2220831-4526148 has just been shipped from our distribution
center.
Shipments are expected to arrive within 4-14 business days
You can now check its status and contact us with your questions at:
http://www.caiman.com/myorddirect.cfm?ord=058-2220831-4526148&zip=90036&lang
id=1&mp=1100
I have added your packing slip below.
Again, thank you for your order. We hope you will enjoy it and do business
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Don't hesitate to contact me by email at Cla...@caiman.com .
Sincerely,
Claire
Caiman, Customer Service
======================
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Quantity Description
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Brahms: Symphony No. 4; Tragic Overture; Schicksalslied
[Audio CD] Brahms...
------ End of Forwarded Message
Rich S.
While I agree with Don about the differences in Walter's conducting
pre- and post-heart attack (corresponding to mono vs. stereo
recordings) I don't as a rule prefer the mono to the stereo. The
stereo CD of the Brahms 2 & 3 is one I particularly treasure for much
the same reasons that you outline.
For the outer symphonies (1 & 4) my favorite is Furtwangler, but
that's another topic.
Rich
Dontait...@aol.com
I hope you didn't infer from my post that I consider the stereo
recordings necessarily inferior to the mono New York ones. I failed to
make it clear that I do not. What I had in mind is that for me, as a
Walter collector of many years who owns all but 98% of his commercial
records and many hours of live performances, the stereo recordings are
in some ways uncharacteristic of the highly emotional, sometimes very
fast character of Walter's performances before his 1957 heart attack
and virtual retirement at 81 from public performance. I do prefer what
he was like before that time. I agree that the beauty of line et
cetera is all there in the stereo versions. Regarding the phrasing and
overall character, Walter always had the musicians use his own
carefully marked parts. So the stereo recordings have virtually
identical phrasing and so on to the mono ones. They are just slower
and less intense. Walter altered is still a great conductor. And I can
agree about the merits of a smaller ensemble, as Mackerras's
fascinating Brahms set on Telarc demonstrated.
Don Tait
Dontait...@aol.com
No, I haven't heard any of the Nuovo Era Walter Brahms CDs and can't
answer your question. Walter did a Brahms cycle with the Philharmonic
in 1951 that was broadcast on CBS, so there's always the possibility
of an off-air recording.
Don Tait