Ring Resounding by John Culshaw

Bloom

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Dec 17, 2002, 1:11:08 PM12/17/02

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I just finished reading John Culshaw's book about the recording of
Solti's Ring cycle on Decca, and I have a couple of questions which
perhaps some of you around here might know.

Culshaw has the habit of telling stories about people but not naming
names. I'm sure as a record producer that was a prudent move on his
part, but I found it to be rather frustrating. Anyway, there are a
couple of stories he tells that I'm particularly curious about.

At the beginning of the book Culshaw tells a story about a Viennese
conductor who had given a concert in London, and that one of Culshaw's
colleagues had written a very favorable article about this concert.
However, a picture was included with the article that the conductor
didn't like which caused the conductor to proclaim that the person who
had written the article must always be kept out of his sight. Culshaw
says the conductor was "disinclined even to visit the Decca offices
unless he could be assured that Jennings (the man who wrote the
article) was elsewhere". And then Culshaw claims that later this
same conductor, upon learning that Jennings had just died, at a very
young age, of polio, exclaimed, "God has punished him, and his family,
for what he did to me". Anyone have any idea who this conductor was?
Culshaw later says that this very well-known Viennese conductor once
burst into tears upon passing by a statue of Haydn and proceeded to
tell all sorts of sentimental stories about Haydn, interspersed with
"positively murderous reflections about Herbert von Karajan's career
and intentions".

Another story that Culshaw tells which piqued my interest was his tale
about the casting of Siegfried. He talks about the young tenor who
Decca first cast in the role, and the fact that this young tenor
neglected to learn the part, resulting in the eventual casting of
Wolfgang Windgassen. Any idea who this unnamed tenor is? Culshaw
says of him at one point, "to have such vocal equipment as our
Siegfried, to have a potential for which the operatic world had been
waiting for twenty years -- and to be able to do so little with it!"
He also says that Hans Hotter was especially disappointed in this
young singer.

If anyone has the goods on these stories, please, spill the beans.
;-)

-Bloom

Curtis Croulet

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Dec 17, 2002, 12:46:32 PM12/17/02

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I've always thought the Viennese conductor was Josef Krips, who made some
recordings for Decca. The story would fit with other accounts of his character
that I've read. A musician in another book describes Krips as "a big baby."

Somebody, maybe here, recently identified the problem Siegfried as Jon Vickers!
But back around 1962, in the late lamented magazine High Fidelity, there was a
news item in advance of the release of the Decca Siegfried where it said the
Siegfried was "rumored" to be Ernst Kozub, who sings Erich on Klemp's Dutchman.
I no longer have this issue to review this tidbit.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W

Commspkmn

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Dec 17, 2002, 1:19:11 PM12/17/02

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curt...@pe.net wrote:
<< Somebody, maybe here, recently identified the problem Siegfried as Jon
Vickers!
But back around 1962, in the late lamented magazine High Fidelity, there was a
news item in advance of the release of the Decca Siegfried where it said the
Siegfried was "rumored" to be Ernst Kozub, who sings Erich on Klemp's Dutchman.
>>

I have always been under the impression that it was Kozub.
Ken Meltzer

Richard Sauer

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Dec 17, 2002, 1:20:03 PM12/17/02

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"Curtis Croulet" <curt...@pe.net> wrote in message
news:YpJL9.6140$pKj9.9...@news2.randori.com...

> Yes, the conductor was Josef Krips. In Who Killed Classical Music,
Lebrecht
writes about the difficulties that conductors had with the LSO " No
conductor or manager could tame them for long; Krips, in frustration,
punched John Cruft in the teeth while attempting to assert his authority."
(pg. 203). Culshaw's unflattering portrait of Krips has, I believe, hurt
Krips reputation. He was a great conductor. His centenary (2002) was
ignored by the labels-no surprise there-, and many publications. Swedish
Radio (S2) remembered him in a week long retrospective that was most
interesting. I do not dispute that Krips was a difficult man, but people
should remember that his life was no bed of roses. At the height of his
career, Krips was forced by the Nazis to work in a factory. This rather
unpleasant experience probably didn't improve his personality.

Rich Sauer

Tony Duggan

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Dec 17, 2002, 2:50:11 PM12/17/02

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Bloom <wqm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mlluvu8h7reddibrf...@4ax.com...

> I just finished reading John Culshaw's book about the recording of
> Solti's Ring cycle on Decca, and I have a couple of questions which
> perhaps some of you around here might know.

> At the beginning of the book Culshaw tells a story about a Viennese

> conductor who had given a concert in London, and that one of Culshaw's
> colleagues had written a very favorable article about this concert.

Josef Krips, who I think Culshaw later named in his memoirs after JK was
dead.

> Another story that Culshaw tells which piqued my interest was his tale
> about the casting of Siegfried. He talks about the young tenor who
> Decca first cast in the role, and the fact that this young tenor
> neglected to learn the part, resulting in the eventual casting of
> Wolfgang Windgassen. Any idea who this unnamed tenor is?

Ernst Kozub.

--
Tony Duggan, England.
dug...@scribble.freeserve.co.uk
Mahler CD recordings survey is at:
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Mahler/index.html

Paul Goldstein

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Dec 17, 2002, 2:25:29 PM12/17/02

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In article <nVJL9.390795$NH2.28511@sccrnsc01>, "Richard says...

I have been Krips' only defender here for years - welcome to the team!

In addition to his well-known and justly admired Schubert 9, Krips and the VPO
made a beautiful J. Strauss LP for Decca that AFAIK has never been reissued on
CD. It is very similar to Karl Bohm's VPO J. Strauss disc for DGG, but Krips'
features the classic Sofiensaal sound. And I continue to regard Krips' Readers
Digest Haydn 104 to be among the finest Haydn symphony recordings ever.

Paul Goldstein

horizon

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Dec 17, 2002, 2:51:37 PM12/17/02

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"Paul Goldstein" <pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:atntn...@drn.newsguy.com...

> I have been Krips' only defender here for years - welcome to the team!
>
> In addition to his well-known and justly admired Schubert 9, Krips and the
VPO
> made a beautiful J. Strauss LP for Decca that AFAIK has never been
reissued on
> CD. It is very similar to Karl Bohm's VPO J. Strauss disc for DGG, but
Krips'
> features the classic Sofiensaal sound. And I continue to regard Krips'
Readers
> Digest Haydn 104 to be among the finest Haydn symphony recordings ever.

Agree about the Schubert 9 (which I think is coupled to a Haydn Symphony on
the Decca ADRM reissue I have), the Don Giovanni and his Concertebouw Mozart
Symphony series -- which last of which is arguably my favorite set of
middle-late Mozart symphonies.

Matt C

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Dec 17, 2002, 5:34:50 PM12/17/02

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Matthew B. Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:

>May I suggest we just put the name of Ernst Kozub into the FAQ, and charge
>$5 for everybody who asks this question ever again? ;--)

Works for me. We wouldn't even have to identify the question itself. Just
say

"It wasn't Jon Vickers.
It wasn't James King.
It wasn't James McCracken.
It was ERNST KOZUB."

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu

David7Gable

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Dec 17, 2002, 5:58:40 PM12/17/02

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>I have been Krips' only defender here for years - welcome to the team!

Paul, you've been one of two! I've qualified my admiration for some of Krips's
performances--his Decca Don Giovanni, which I nevertheless like--but I've
expressed unalloyed enthusiasm for others. I'm also convinced that if we could
get our hands on more Krips performances from the late 40's and early 50's they
would be more lively than his stereo recordings from the 60's, and I have a
good deal of respect for them. At his best, which I take to be represented by
the very early Decca Entfuehrung, for example, he was incomparable. This
performance has its share of frustrating cuts, but it's very lively, and
Krips's own contribution is remarkable. The phrasing is very distinctive; I
only wish I had the energy to dredge up a score and make more specific
comments. There are many terrific moments worth remarking.

-david gable

Edward A. Cowan

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Dec 17, 2002, 6:28:33 PM12/17/02

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I have some of Josef Krips' recordings, including that Decca _Don
Giovanni_, and several symphonic recordings, including the recordings of
Mozart's symphonies nos.21-41 (Concertgebouw). I think the early
_Entführung_ has been transferred to CD (Pearl?). There was also a later
stereo recording of that work cond. Krips from EMI.

I managed to hear Krips conduct live only a couple of times: A Chicago
_Don Giovanni_ in 1964 and a Phila. Orch. concert at the Robin Hood Dell
some time between 1966 and 1968.

There was also a volume of _Erinnerungen_ (memoirs) in German. I suspect
that this interesting and readable tome has never been translated into
English. There is a useful discography.

--E.A.C.

Jaime J. Weinman

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Dec 17, 2002, 7:51:24 PM12/17/02

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Paul Goldstein <pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<atntn...@drn.newsguy.com>...

> Krips and the VPO
> made a beautiful J. Strauss LP for Decca that AFAIK has never been reissued on
> CD.

Actually, three waltzes from this LP -- the "Blue Danube," "Emperor,"
and "Roses From the South" -- have been reissued on a cheap Decca CD
in Japan, UCCD7009. (Hmv.co.jp has it.) The disc also has some
waltzes and polkas recorded by Karajan and the VPO in the late '50s,
plus the DIE FLEDERMAUS ballet music that was left off the CD reissue
of the Karajan recording. 79 minutes in all; definitely worth getting
(as are a lot of CDs in this inexpensive Japanese Decca series; I
don't have a list, but there are a lot of recordings from the Decca
vaults, many with the original cover art, going for 952 yen each).

Paul Goldstein

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Dec 17, 2002, 8:20:36 PM12/17/02

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In article <bad94335.02121...@posting.google.com>, ja...@weinmans.com
says...

Thanks for this tip. I have several of those 952 yen series and they are very
good.

Paul Goldstein

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 17, 2002, 9:46:23 PM12/17/02

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david...@aol.com (David7Gable) appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:20021217175840...@mb-fw.aol.com:

I haven't heard much of Krips (other than his mature Mozart symphonies
with the Concertgebouw, which I rather enjoy), so I will not venture a
general opinion on his abilities. However, back in 1973 heard some
members of the San Francisco Symphony remarking that Krips had been sick
(he had to cancel some scheduled concerts with them), and one or two of
them joked about sending him a "get sicker" card. Evidently it worked,
because he died in late 1974.

Richard Sauer

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Dec 17, 2002, 10:32:22 PM12/17/02

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Matthew wrote:

> I haven't heard much of Krips (other than his mature Mozart symphonies
> with the Concertgebouw, which I rather enjoy), so I will not venture a
> general opinion on his abilities. However, back in 1973 heard some
> members of the San Francisco Symphony remarking that Krips had been sick
> (he had to cancel some scheduled concerts with them), and one or two of
> them joked about sending him a "get sicker" card. Evidently it worked,
> because he died in late 1974.
>
> --

When Krips was in Buffalo, Heifetz was the soloist in the Beethoven
concerto. During the rehearsal, Heifetz didn't think that Krips was
sufficiently respectful, and told his then manager..S.Chapin ."We are
leaving". Chapin convinced Heifetz to play, After the performance, Krips
chased down Chapin and kept repeating "He did not miss a note!"

Many orchestra players hated him. He would try to ingratiate himself with an
orchestra by telling them what a dream it was to work with them. That
probably didn't go over very well with the NYP. On the other hand, the
conductor is always Scrooge, and the orchestra is Bob Cratchit. Anyone who
has played in an orchestra,- good, bad, or lousy-, knows that some orchestra
members can be just as unreasonable and nasty as any conductor.

Rich Sauer

Alexander Damyanovich

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Dec 17, 2002, 11:38:26 PM12/17/02

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"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns92E7861B61A...@129.250.170.81...

> Bloom <wqm...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
be
> typed in news:mlluvu8h7reddibrf...@4ax.com:
>
> > Another story that Culshaw tells which piqued my interest was his tale
> > about the casting of Siegfried. He talks about the young tenor who
Decca
> > first cast in the role, and the fact that this young tenor neglected to
> > learn the part, resulting in the eventual casting of Wolfgang
Windgassen.
> > Any idea who this unnamed tenor is?
>
> May I suggest we just put the name of Ernst Kozub into the FAQ, and charge
> $5 for everybody who asks this question ever again? ;--)

What bugs me about that whole episode is: were recordings and that whole
industry so maligned and/or despised for such an event to happen? It feels
preposterous! [Couldn't that Kozub see the potential profit in pioneering
that rôle unto what was going to become the first high-fidelity Ring-cycle
recording?]

David7Gable

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Dec 18, 2002, 1:17:16 AM12/18/02

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>I think the early
>_Entführung_ has been transferred to CD (Pearl?).

The early Entführung was issued on CD by Decca and may even still be in print
in Europe.

-david gable

David7Gable

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Dec 18, 2002, 1:20:31 AM12/18/02

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>
>What bugs me about that whole episode [Kozub's failure to prepare the role of
Siegfried for the Solti Ring] is: were recordings and that whole

>industry so maligned and/or despised for such an event to happen?

This episode says something about Kozub, not about the attitude of a whole
culture toward the classical recording industry of the period. And, of course,
we don't know Kozub's side of the story.

-david gable

Alexander Damyanovich

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Dec 18, 2002, 1:31:14 AM12/18/02

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"David7Gable" <david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021218012031...@mb-ci.aol.com...

>
> This episode says something about Kozub, not about the attitude of a whole
> culture toward the classical recording industry of the period. And, of
course,
> we don't know Kozub's side of the story.

That's to say that Ernst Kozub never bothered to explain himself at any
point of his life afterwards? [Presumably his career didn't prosper that
much longer afterwards, as he was never much in the spotlight since...]

Richard Bernas

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Dec 18, 2002, 5:19:16 AM12/18/02

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"Alexander Damyanovich" <azda...@inetsonic.com> wrote in message news:<yrUL9.1346$9H1.737@FE07>...

I heard Kozub sing Siegmund under Solti's direction at Covent Garden
about 3 or 4 years after the "Siegfried" mess, so presumably there
were no hard feelings between them. No-one at the time knew that he
was the non-Siegfried of Decca's recording; Culshaw & co. kept the
secret pretty well and it was only printed in the UK newspapers after
Kozub's death.

As Siegmund he sounded mighty impressive: clear, ringing and forceful
without any sense of strain. A bit like Windgassen without the
excuses, in fact.

Commspkmn

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Dec 18, 2002, 6:50:27 AM12/18/02

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chon...@attbi.com wrote:
<< Anyone who
has played in an orchestra,- good, bad, or lousy-, knows that some orchestra
members can be just as unreasonable and nasty as any conductor.

Rich Sauer>>

There's something to fantasize about. What would be your dream matchup between
nasty conductor and orchestra, the musical equivalent of a WWW match, or those
old Godzilla movies?
Ken Meltzer

Jim

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Dec 18, 2002, 7:43:11 AM12/18/02

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"Alexander Damyanovich" <azda...@inetsonic.com> wrote in message news:<INSL9.1$9S4.0@FE05>...

>
> It feels preposterous! Couldn't that Kozub see the potential profit in pioneering that rôle unto what was going to become the first high-fidelity Ring-cycle recording?

Actually, part of the fun of reading Culshaw's account (at least in
PUTTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT--I haven't read the RING book yet) is that
his bosses at Decca were NOT at all interested in a complete cycle at
the outset. He had to bully and bluff them into it, with threats of a
Karajan recording that might get to the shops first. It's easy for us,
in hindsight, to see they'd have been insane to let this opportunity
get away from them.

Jim

Alexander Damyanovich

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Dec 18, 2002, 9:38:25 AM12/18/02

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"Jim" <jme...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:881f114d.02121...@posting.google.com...

True that Decca/London weren't initially planning things that way; however,
with Das Rheingold already done + Leinsdorf's "Die Walküre" happening around
that time, the indicators could have been noticeable (suppose I can always
be wrong...)...

Alan Hayward

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Dec 18, 2002, 10:37:59 AM12/18/02

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"Jim" <jme...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:881f114d.02121...@posting.google.com...

And disinterest wasn't restricted to the Decca bosses. In an article in The
Gramophone (September 1966), Culshaw described a chance meeting with Walter
Legge just before the start of the Rheingold sessions. Legge asked what they
(Culshaw and team) were about to record. Culshaw told him. "Very
interesting" said Legge, "very nice. Of course, you won't sell any"!!

David7Gable

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Dec 18, 2002, 11:30:38 AM12/18/02

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>That's to say that Ernst Kozub never bothered to explain himself at any
>point of his life afterwards?

Did he owe the world an explanation? I'm not sure he did. Even assuming he
was just a lazy bastard, why does this particular lazy bastard owe the world an
explanation for his laziness?

-david gable

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Dec 18, 2002, 3:07:36 PM12/18/02

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"Bloom" <wqm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:prc10vgh2pof2crj2...@4ax.com...

>
> Was Kozub really as promising a heldentenor as Culshaw makes him out
> to be? Let alone never hearing him sing, I've never even heard *of*
> him (Kozub, that is).
>

One can hear him on Solti's recording of "Tristan und Isolde" as Melot.
Otherwise, let me please thank everybody who has been so kind as to respond
to my postings regarding him.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 18, 2002, 2:47:24 PM12/18/02

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Bloom <wqm...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters to

be typed in news:prc10vgh2pof2crj2...@4ax.com:

He did record a few Wagner roles, such as (I think) Melot.

Stephen W. Worth

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Dec 18, 2002, 3:08:54 PM12/18/02

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In article <20021218113038...@mb-cn.aol.com>, David7Gable
<david...@aol.com> wrote:

> Did he owe the world an explanation? I'm not sure he did. Even assuming he
> was just a lazy bastard, why does this particular lazy bastard owe the world
> an explanation for his laziness?

It's been a while since I read Culshaw's book, but I don't remember
thinking he was lazy. As I remember it, he was getting a lot of
attention that he wasn't used to, and didn't know how to prioritize his
time for the things that really mattered. That happens to a lot of
people.

See ya
Steve

--
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Richard Bernas

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Dec 19, 2002, 3:55:26 AM12/19/02

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david...@aol.com (David7Gable) wrote in message news:<20021218113244...@mb-cn.aol.com>...

I was indeed thinking of Windgassen's live performances. When he sang
in Solti's live Ring cycles at Covent Garden it was not unusual for
him to use the first two acts of the performance as a warm up to a
really fine Third Act.

Because of his application and professionalism this was still
preferable to the alternative Siegfrieds Covent Garden occasionally
managed to find.

lastvisibledog

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Dec 19, 2002, 11:14:12 AM12/19/02

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"Alan Hayward" <alan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<atq4on$dei$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>...

Personally, I think that Culshaw's book on the Ring recordings is less
of a classic than lots of writers make it out to be. It's a lengthy
promo-piece for Decca and Decca artists generally; and the writing is
so drab (Legge is Culshaw's immeasurable superior in this respect; one
shudders to think that Culshaw "made a go of" being a novelist, as
well [see Putting the Record]...)

And while the Ring on 19 LPs was, in point of convenience, preferable
to the Ring on masses of 78s, as done by rival EMI, the CD transfers
have levelled that ground considerably. EMI's "potted" Ring had Frida
Leider and Lauritz Melchior, conducting by (more than one conductor
including) Albert Coates, and a whole catalog of the musical motives
(long before Deryck Cooke). The EMI recording is of course abridged,
but for ordinary listening purposes, the Ring can stand some
abridging. Mark Obert-Thorn transferred EMI's Ring for Pearl.

Bloom

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Dec 19, 2002, 1:30:03 PM12/19/02

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On 19 Dec 2002 08:14:12 -0800, lastvis...@msn.com (lastvisibledog)
wrote:

I certainly don't think it's a classic, and you're right to say that
in a lot of ways it's a big promo piece. However, that doesn't make
it any less fun to read. It's like reading a very long People
magazine article, but with classical recording stars substituted for
movie stars. In other words, it's a guilty little pleasure. ;-)

-Bloom

August Helmbright

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Dec 19, 2002, 6:28:54 PM12/19/02

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david...@aol.com (David7Gable) wrote in message news:<20021218113244...@mb-cn.aol.com>...
> >

In some of his live recordings (I'm thinking of Act I of Siegfried
from Bayreuth 1953) you can hear his tendency to rush, which Culshaw
wrote about (this time naming Windgassen) in his book. At times in the
1953 Siegfried, Windgassen and the orchestra are so out of phase that
it's positively painful to listen to.

That being said, I do like his studio Siegfried and Götterdämmerung
under Solti quite a bit.

August Helmbright

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Dec 19, 2002, 6:31:27 PM12/19/02

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"Alexander Damyanovich" <azda...@inetsonic.com> wrote in message news:<Io4M9.10460$9S4.4576@FE05>...

Also in Klemperer's Fliegende Holländer as Erik.