How would you rank Mozart symphonies for greatness?

346 views
Skip to first unread message

Andy Evans

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 2:07:54 PM1/19/04
to
I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I should
listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but rarely
put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really stand
out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen. Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

ansermetniac

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 2:22:05 PM1/19/04
to
In article <20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com>,
aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker says...
Andy

Try Maag 29,34, Posthorn Serenade on Testament.

More than any other composer Mozart needs a good performance. There are
two Mozarts. The 6 year old kid who wrote those nice melodies and the
MAN who wrote what was underneath.

Try Casals if you can find it for the last 6 except for #36. Stay away
from HIP for a while. There are cheap Munchinger's on ebay. Not his VPO
recordings but excellent nonetheless.

His 31 and 35 fill oiut his amazing Haydn 104 in Japan.

Colin Davis is also very nice

Abbedd

Alan Cooper

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 2:36:33 PM1/19/04
to
On 19 Jan 2004 19:07:54 GMT, aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

>I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I should
>listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but rarely
>put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really stand
>out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen. Andy

Why not order this item from Berkshire Record Outlet:

Mozart, Multiple Performances of Symphonies 39 {Royal Phil./
Weingartner [1928]; Berlin State Opera Orch./ E.Kleiber [1927]; London
Symph./ Krips [1947]}, 40 {London Phil./ Beecham [1937]; Berlin State
Opera Orch./ Strauss [1927]; Vienna Phil./ Furtwangler [1949]}, 41
{Vienna Phil./ Walter [1938]; NBC Symph./ Toscanini [1945]} and Magic
Flute Overture. (Mozart Festival Orch./ Walter [1928]; BBC Symph./
Toscanini [1938]. Deluxe packaging with extensive booklet)
Add to cart | Price: $ 20.97 | 3 in set. | Country: AMERICA | D/A
code: M | Code: CD 1982 | BRO Code: 116658 | Label: ANDANTE

AC

Andy Evans

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 2:59:11 PM1/19/04
to
(Multiple Performances) Nice idea - I'm in the UK, maybe I can get it here.

Gerrit Stolte

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 3:54:09 PM1/19/04
to
Am 19 Jan 2004 19:07:54 GMT schrieb Andy Evans:

> I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I should
> listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but rarely
> put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really stand
> out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen. Andy

Depends on what kind of interpretations you generally prefer. But, no
matter what, a fresh listen should provide Harnoncourt with the
Concertgebouw. HIP without an HIP-Ensemble. Very rough, heavy accent, some
controversial and sometimes bizarre choices of tempo, but certainly fresher
than most other performances I've encountered over the last couple of
years. Should be available cheaply on one of the Teldec budget labels.
Start with #25. I also have fond memories of a live performance of the
Haffner by the Concerto Köln (HIP), I taped some years ago. There is a cd
out there on Winter & Winter, though I can't tell wether it's live or it
resembles in any way the one I've taped.

Gerrit

Johannes Roehl

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 4:04:04 PM1/19/04
to
Andy Evans schrieb:

>
> I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I should
> listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but rarely
> put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really stand
> out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen. Andy

My two favorites are probably K 504 ('Prague') and K 550, then K 543, K
551 and the Linz and the Haffner.
I also like some of the earlier ones quite bit, of course K 183 (little
g minor) and 201 (A major), but also
#34 (in C major, cannot remember the Koechel).
I am not so sure which recordings to recommend. I like Harnoncourts, but
they are very controversial (and sometimes very idiosyncratic, if you're
sick with 'middle of the road' Mozart, you might want to try them,
especially K 550 and 543). Furtwänglers K 550 is fascinating (but he
uses the version without clarinets, I prefer the one with), I haven't
heard E. Kleiber's yet, which is supposed to be very good.

Johannes

REG

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 4:00:08 PM1/19/04
to
The Linz is probably my favorite of all the latter bunch, and I'd say that
for me the two finest performances are the Walter with the Columbia - I
can't recall if he did it before - and the Jochum, because he does some
incredibly beautiful wind balancing and gets wonderful tonal quality from
the orchestra. Although I like Beecham a great deal, particularly in Mozart,
I don't have strong recollections of his outing here. Next favorite is 41,
probably for the last movement alone.

"Johannes Roehl" <parr...@web.de> wrote in message
news:400C4644...@web.de...

Raymond Hall

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 4:21:17 PM1/19/04
to
"Andy Evans" <aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker> wrote in message
news:20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com...

| I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I
should
| listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but
rarely
| put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really
stand
| out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen.
Andy

It is difficult to really rank the last symphonies, excepting that Nos. 40
and 41 are undeniably great. In actual fact The Haffner is the only one
which palls a tad on me.

But for a fresh start to Mozart, then some of the earlier symphonies give
tremendous enjoyment, especially No.15 (KV124), No.25 (KV183), No.28
(KV200), No.29 (KV201) and No.31 (KV297) nicknamed 'The Paris'. I'd give
these a go.

Jaap ter Linden's Mozart (Mozart Akademie Amsterdam) is well worth
considering for a HIP sort of sound (horns and percussion), although the
strings sound modern. Good performances, especially in the earlier
symphonies. Linden's No.15 is sheer delight from beginning to end.

But with Mozart, as I am sure you will know, he deserves the greatest
advocacy, or just don't bother. Matter of fact I listened to No.28 last
night. Great music. Still waiting for Harnoncourt's efforts on Teldec/Warner
(on back-order in Oz at present).

Regards,

# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)

Ray, Taree, NSW

Simon Roberts

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 4:17:17 PM1/19/04
to
In article <20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com>, Andy Evans says...

>
>I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I should
>listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but rarely
>put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really stand
>out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen.

It seems as though you're missing out on the best one: 38.

Simon

Matthew Silverstein

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 5:09:31 PM1/19/04
to
AE wrote:

> I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I
should
> listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but
rarely
> put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really
stand
> out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen.
Andy

My two favorites are probably 36 (Linz) and 38 (Prague). My favorite
recording of 36 is Bruggen's (which is, of course, out of print). My
favorite for 38 is also out of print--Maag on Decca. Try Klemperer on
Testament, though, for a close second.

Matty


Thomas Wood

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 5:41:42 PM1/19/04
to

"Andy Evans" <aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker> wrote in message
news:20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies. I
should
> listen some more - I know the Haffner and the last three fairly well but
rarely
> put them on. Which ones should I prioritise, and which recordings really
stand
> out as great (don't mind any kind of sound). I feel like a fresh listen.
Andy

My favorites (in order) are: 38, 40, 41, 39, 29, 25, 35, 36, 14. #14 (K. 114
in A) is an overlooked early masterpiece...perhaps the first of Mozart's
great symphonies.

There's no one conductor who I feel always gets these pieces right.
Currently, my favorite set is Pinnock's, but I prefer Gardiner in the late
symphonies. What I've heard of Mackerras' recordings greatly impressed me.

Tom Wood


REG

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 6:03:54 PM1/19/04
to
I heard Bruggen do 36 live in New York maybe 15 years ago, it was a
wonderful performance.

"Matthew Silverstein" <msil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vAYOb.58658$2_6....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

Rajeev Aloysius

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 11:06:31 PM1/19/04
to
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<szXOb.87491$cM1.15...@twister.nyc.rr.com>...

> The Linz is probably my favorite of all the latter bunch, and I'd say that
> for me the two finest performances are the Walter with the Columbia - I
> can't recall if he did it before - and the Jochum, because he does some
> incredibly beautiful wind balancing and gets wonderful tonal quality from
> the orchestra. Although I like Beecham a great deal, particularly in Mozart,
> I don't have strong recollections of his outing here. Next favorite is 41,
> probably for the last movement alone.

Jupiter, Linz, no. 29 (A major, K181),40 in G minor, K550 and Prague for me.

Why - I like exciting, monumental, and really good tunes in that order.

Rajeev Aloysius

Matthew燘. Tepper

unread,
Jan 19, 2004, 11:07:10 PM1/19/04
to
Simon Roberts <sd...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:buhhg...@drn.newsguy.com:

Having listened to the entire Marriner/Krips set on Philips, in order by
CD, I feel now more than ever that many of the earlier symphonies simply
wouldn't get a look in even now and then if it weren't for the fact that
they're by Mozart. For me #25 is a gem after a slushy avalanche of mere
pleasantries; things then pick up even more with ## 29, 31, and 33, and the
bunch from #35 to the end are one amazing masterpiece after another.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!

Andy Evans

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 5:36:50 AM1/20/04
to
#35 to the end are one amazing masterpiece after another.>

Looking at the posts so far I can see that the two favourites are the Linz and
the Prague. I'd thought it was 40 and 41. So - next thing to do is to give a
proper listen to these. Andy

Larry Rinkel

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 7:37:02 AM1/20/04
to

"Andy Evans" <aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker> wrote in message
news:20040120053650...@mb-m06.aol.com...

> #35 to the end are one amazing masterpiece after another.>
>
> Looking at the posts so far I can see that the two favourites are the Linz
and
> the Prague. I'd thought it was 40 and 41. So - next thing to do is to give
a
> proper listen to these. Andy

Be that as it may, I would rate #39 in E flat with any of the others you
mentioned, and was surprised it did not get more votes for peoples' personal
favorite. Along with the Prague, it certainly is mine.


notrump15-17

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 10:12:30 AM1/20/04
to
#35: Szell; #36: Kertesz VPO Decca/London; #38: C. Davis BBC Philips; #39:
Szell; #40: C. Davis LSO Philips; #41: Szell.
"ansermetniac" <anserm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a75f850e...@news.optonline.net...

MrT

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 11:08:14 AM1/20/04
to
The Jupiter symphony is among my favorite symphonies. Mozart really
had his thing together in composing this work. Other very good ones:
35-40 and 31. I prefer HIP performances because of the small
orchestras and the sharper contrast between sections. A lot of the
earlier symphonies show Mozart spinning his wheels, but none is
without interesting moments, particularly touches of orchestration.

Best,

MrT

Van Eyes

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 7:45:14 PM1/20/04
to
"Andy Evans" <aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker> wrote in message
news:20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com

> I have kind of love/indifference relationship with Mozart symphonies....I feel like a fresh listen.


ECO/Tate boxset.


Regards


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Rajeev Aloysius

unread,
Jan 20, 2004, 10:45:12 PM1/20/04
to
raj...@starmail.com (Rajeev Aloysius) wrote in message news:<28a37761.04011...@posting.google.com>...

>
> Jupiter, Linz, no. 29 (A major, K181),40 in G minor, K550 and Prague for me.
>
> Why - I like exciting, monumental, and really good tunes in that order.
>
> Rajeev Aloysius

Correction: Symphony no. 29 in A major, K201.

-Rajeev

jszostaksr

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 8:32:03 AM1/21/04
to
In answer to the original subject question- My favs listed 1st-

1. 39
2. 25
3. 40
4. 37
5. 41
6. 29

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
(aka 'eclectic')

"Andy Evans" <aeatarts...@aol.comnohawker> wrote in message

news:20040119140754...@mb-m23.aol.com...

davyd

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 3:57:52 PM1/21/04
to
"jszostaksr" <jszostak...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nbvPb.114062$I06.787992@attbi_s01...

> In answer to the original subject question- My favs listed 1st-
>
> 1. 39
> 2. 25
> 3. 40
> 4. 37
> 5. 41
> 6. 29
>
> Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
> (aka 'eclectic')
>

Do you *really* mean 37, the one now thought to be by M. Haydn?


gopal

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 7:12:11 PM1/21/04
to
"Larry Rinkel" <LRi...@optunderline.net> wrote in message news:<Oh9Pb.31321$OM2.8...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...

I am with you on #39. Although #41, with its fugal, and sparklingly
and jovially Olympian finale among other things, has to considered a
SUPREME achievement, #39 is my next favorite. Along with preferring a
rambunctious, Haydnesque peasant-like vigor in the whirlwind last
movement, I hear a majesty in the third movement (to me a more
Haydnesque Laendler than minuet)that doesn't come across in many
performances I have heard (Walter/BBC, Bohm/Berlin, Leinsdorf/Royal
Phil give a little indication of-haven't heard Bohm/Vienna.) The work
is a classical symphony in E-FLAT after all, with the resonances of
that key!

And per the subject of this thread, I would go with 35 (a strange and
mysterious color and nobility in that one),25,38, 40 (particularly
when in a quasi-French Baroqueish/operatic and formally strict manner,
somewhat similar to Piano cto.24 k.491),36,31... in that order.

jszostaksr

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 10:13:31 PM1/21/04
to
Davyd: Hadn't heard that...but my preference stays...I like the bloody
thing...what more can I say?

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.


"davyd" <d...@c.kom> wrote in message news:aKBPb.23127$Mb7.22764@lakeread04...

Bill McCutcheon

unread,
Jan 22, 2004, 9:51:25 AM1/22/04
to

"jszostaksr" <jszostak...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vdHPb.99309$sv6.419872@attbi_s52...

Jon --

I'm curious ... What recording do you have of #37 that claims it was
written by Mozart? Every recording I've seen indicates "formerly
attributed to Mozart" or something similar.

From the notes with the Philips Complete Mozart Edition: "Among
Mozart's possessions was found after his death the score of a
symphony, containing a slow introduction, the following Allegro and
half of the Andante in his hand, but the rest of the Andante, the
minuet and trio, and the finale in another hand. The work, listed in
K1 as number 444 and published ... as Symphony No. 37, has frequently
been performed as Mozart's, despite the fact that as early as 1907 is
was known -- without the slow introduction -- as a symphony by Michael
Haydn, written for the installation of the new abbot at the
Michaelbeuern Monastery in May 1783."

The CME includes only the aforementioned introduction, all 1'43" of
it.

-- Bill McC.


jszostaksr

unread,
Jan 22, 2004, 12:04:26 PM1/22/04
to
Bill: Hogwood/Academy of Ancient Music on Oiseau Lyre and listed as
Symphony no 37 in G major, K 444 (425a)...but honestly...I don't understand
your fascination with the Haydn thing...I'd like the work if it was written
by Oscar Wilde and yet listed as W.A. Mozart...it's as simple as that...and
I happen to be fond of Hogwood's reading of this work. Silly me...huh?

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

"Bill McCutcheon" <wjm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:NrRPb.19301$q4.1...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

jszostaksr

unread,
Jan 22, 2004, 12:13:47 PM1/22/04
to
Bill: It dawns on me that my last reply may seem flippant or rude...if it
appears to you as such...please don't take it in that manner. I realize
you're trying to engage in a reasonable discussion...and I don't wish to
appear in any otherwise...especially as you seem so intent upon the subject
at hand. Of course...now you've peaked my interest and I'll have to see what
all the 'brouhaha' is about.

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

"Bill McCutcheon" <wjm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:NrRPb.19301$q4.1...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>

Bill McCutcheon

unread,
Jan 22, 2004, 7:15:36 PM1/22/04
to

"jszostaksr" <jszostak...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uoTPb.123493$8H.326646@attbi_s03...

> Bill: Hogwood/Academy of Ancient Music on Oiseau Lyre and listed as
> Symphony no 37 in G major, K 444 (425a)...but honestly...I don't
understand
> your fascination with the Haydn thing...I'd like the work if it was
written
> by Oscar Wilde and yet listed as W.A. Mozart...it's as simple as
that...and
> I happen to be fond of Hogwood's reading of this work. Silly
me...huh?
>
> Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
>
>

Jon --

No offense taken! I'm not "fascinated" with any aspect of this. I
was merely very surprised that you were surprised to learn that #37 is
not pure Mozart and curious what recording might be presenting it as
such.

I also have the Hogwood Mozart set and like it very much. Please note
that the track listings credit Movements II and III to Michael Haydn.
The text also refers to it as "the G major symphony by Michael Haydn
for which Mozart wrote a slow introduction and which Kochel mistook
for an original work by him..."

I have no objection to your liking it regardless of its source. I
like it too! M. Haydn wrote some nice stuff. If you don't have it
already, you might try the disc by Bamert and the London Mozart
Players. It's part of Chandos's "Contemporaries of Mozart" series and
contains the symphony under discussion (P16 in the M. Haydn catalogue)
plus four others.

-- Bill McC.


Simon Roberts

unread,
Jan 23, 2004, 9:41:33 AM1/23/04
to
In article <uoTPb.123493$8H.326646@attbi_s03>, jszostaksr says...

>
>Bill: Hogwood/Academy of Ancient Music on Oiseau Lyre and listed as
>Symphony no 37 in G major, K 444 (425a)...but honestly...I don't understand
>your fascination with the Haydn thing...I'd like the work if it was written
>by Oscar Wilde and yet listed as W.A. Mozart...

Sure, but it's rather an odd work to recommend to someone interested in music by
Mozart....

Simon

jszostaksr

unread,
Jan 23, 2004, 12:50:51 PM1/23/04
to
Simon: I agree...if I were recommending these...but the poster's original
Subject heading IS - "Re: How would rank Mozart symphonies for greatness?"

Jon E. Szostak, Sr.

"Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:burbq...@drn.newsguy.com...

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages