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Best Bolero

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mswd...@gmail.com

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Jan 10, 2021, 1:46:50 PM1/10/21
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Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.

Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.

If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.

Message has been deleted

Herman

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Jan 11, 2021, 4:53:36 AM1/11/21
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There is this delightful story about Ravel running into a man who proudly told him he had a copy of the Bolero recording on a bunch of 78s.

He insisted on playing them to Ravel, who could not fathom why anyone would want to have these records.

Imagine this guy changing the records as the crescendo kept building in his mind.

The Bolero is a novelty piece composed so that Ida Rubinstein could perform a sexy dance (she was not a very good dancer, but she had a lot of money), and the orchestra could stun the audience with its power. In Ravel's mind this only worked in live.

KimDenmark

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Jan 11, 2021, 10:28:47 AM1/11/21
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dk and KimDenmark actually agrees! Cheers, Dan
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Andy Evans

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Jan 11, 2021, 1:14:13 PM1/11/21
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Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew containing Amanita Phalloides"....
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JohnGavin

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Jan 11, 2021, 1:49:48 PM1/11/21
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On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:58:55 AM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
> Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
>
> dk

Ravel was a genius, and Celi is fantastic - just my 2 cents.

Bob Harper

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Jan 11, 2021, 5:02:32 PM1/11/21
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On 1/11/21 10:14 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew containing Amanita Phalloides"....
>
No, according to a good friend of mine, the mushroom comparison would
apply to the music of Pfitzner. He observed to me once that the opera
'Palestrina' could suck all the oxygen out of a room :).

Bob Harper

raymond....@gmail.com

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Jan 11, 2021, 5:47:11 PM1/11/21
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On Tuesday, 12 January 2021 at 03:58:55 UTC+11, dk wrote:
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 5:53:36 PM UTC+8, Herman wrote:
> The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
> Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
>
> dk

Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.

Ray Hall, Taree

Ricardo Jimenez

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Jan 11, 2021, 8:34:43 PM1/11/21
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On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:47:08 -0800 (PST), "raymond....@gmail.com"
<raymond....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
>> Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."
>>
>> dk
>
>Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
>
>Ray Hall, Taree

It might serve as a test to prove somebody is a truely great pianist.
Anybody who could give a solo performance that I wouldn't turn off by
the third repetition of the theme would be somebody really special.
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MELMOTH

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Jan 12, 2021, 2:45:52 AM1/12/21
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dk a formulé ce mardi :
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zZPsgpJhw

Absolute nonsense...

Herman

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Jan 12, 2021, 2:53:43 AM1/12/21
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On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:47:11 PM UTC+1, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:


> Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Obviously Ravel did not imply the music wasn't good.

What he meant was it was a show piece, to be heard rarely, in the concert hall.

raymond....@gmail.com

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Jan 12, 2021, 3:13:15 AM1/12/21
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On Tuesday, 12 January 2021 at 18:53:43 UTC+11, Herman wrote:
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 11:47:11 PM UTC+1, raymond....l.com wrote:
>
>
> > Ravel was wrong of course. Bolero is a fine piece of music.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> Obviously Ravel did not imply the music wasn't good.
>
> What he meant was it was a show piece, to be heard rarely, in the concert hall.

I know that. Similar to lots of pieces that are better played sparingly. I also am aware that Ravel was probably very tongue-in-cheek about his statement.

Ray Hall, Taree

Alan Dawes

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Jan 12, 2021, 5:41:27 AM1/12/21
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In article <1a0d8dfb-5d69-4556...@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
> containing Amanita Phalloides"....

The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
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Andy Evans

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Jan 12, 2021, 6:00:03 PM1/12/21
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> Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOIkT1-QWY
> > dk

I'm speechless......
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Andy Evans

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Jan 14, 2021, 4:28:38 AM1/14/21
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> Like this better?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShH-Td3ZiKs
> > dk

Sounds like something Debussy would improvise to put Chou-Chou to sleep.

number_six

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Jan 14, 2021, 3:08:23 PM1/14/21
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On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 11:29:01 AM UTC-8, dk wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 3:26:41 AM UTC+8, dk wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 6:41:27 PM UTC+8, Alan Dawes wrote:
> > > In article <1a0d8dfb-5d69-4556...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Next it will be "best Pachelbel's Canon" and on to "best mushroom stew
> > > > containing Amanita Phalloides"....
> > > The ultimate would be " the best John Cage 4'33" "
> > Of course there is one -- I posted about it a while ago:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vzOWzxQDyA.
> >
> > There is even an orchestral version! ;-)
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWVUp12XPpU
>
> Personally I find "Water Walk" far more exciting!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOIkT1-QWY
>
> dk

I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...

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Andrew Clarke

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Jan 14, 2021, 8:31:37 PM1/14/21
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On Tuesday, January 12, 2021 at 3:58:55 AM UTC+11, dk wrote:

> The best Bolero quote is Ravel saying '"I've written only one masterpiece --
> Bolero. Unfortunately it has no music in it."

The best Bolero I know is this one:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCt5ghkkIMY>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Andrew Clarke

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Jan 15, 2021, 4:36:50 AM1/15/21
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On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 5:46:50 AM UTC+11, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
>
> Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
>
> If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.

Is Ravel's Bolero a bolero?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

gggg gggg

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Jan 16, 2021, 6:21:54 PM1/16/21
to
On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 10:46:50 AM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
>
> Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
>
> If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.

Didn't Mehta make film about Bolero?

number_six

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Jan 17, 2021, 5:06:04 PM1/17/21
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I have not seen that, but the best (by far) cinematic use of Bolero I have seen is Zbigniew Rybczynski's extraordinary STAIRWAY TO LENIN.

Part of a longer film THE ORCHESTRA. Bozetto's ALLEGRO NON TROPPO comees in second.

Owen

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Jan 18, 2021, 11:42:10 AM1/18/21
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On 1/14/21 6:00 PM, dk wrote:
>> I'm thinking the duck could've been miked more closely...

John Cage: More than just 4'33"
>
> The pressure cooker would be a valuable addition to
> any symphony orchestra!
>

In order to conform to strict HIP guidelines, the pressure cooker would
need to be one of those early models prone to violent explosions causing
personal injury.

-Owen

Frank Berger

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Jan 18, 2021, 11:56:27 AM1/18/21
to
That's pretty much a myth about pressure cookers, but the
imagery is so good it doesn't matter.

Reinhold Gliere

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Jan 18, 2021, 12:01:22 PM1/18/21
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He made it because I have it, and must watch it again. It's on a DVD, with 'In Search of Cezanne'. Two Films by Allan Miller (FRF 912693D).
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Chris from Lafayette

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Jan 18, 2021, 3:14:28 PM1/18/21
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Except for the fact that such an explosion actually occurred in our family when I was a kid in the 50's. There we were all sitting at the dinner table (a quaint practice which was typical of those days), when, POW! All this meat starts flying all over the place! Just by chance, no one was hurt at all, but it took my parents what seemed the rest of the night to clean up the mess!

I've been tempted to get one of those new-fangled "do everything" pressure cookers "as seen on TV", but Ms. CfL won't hear of it. Maybe she's right, considering where things are made these days! ;-)

Frank Berger

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Jan 18, 2021, 3:39:52 PM1/18/21
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Sure you could get burned to death by the contents, but it's
not like the pot itself blows apart. Unless there's shrapnel
it's not an explosion.

Andy Evans

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Jan 19, 2021, 6:21:36 AM1/19/21
to
> Sure you could get burned to death by the contents, but it's
> not like the pot itself blows apart. Unless there's shrapnel
> it's not an explosion.

There was a very good English actor called John Shrapnel. Curious name.

Don't know any actors called Pressure-Cooker, but there is George Cukor....

Andrew Clarke

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Jan 19, 2021, 7:55:35 AM1/19/21
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On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 7:07:18 AM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:36:50 PM UTC+8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Is Ravel's Bolero a bolero?
> >
> It depends on one's perspective.
> Jaune Tom called it a "bowl e-raw".
>

It's also a question of whether it's a Spanish bolero or a Cuban bolero, apparently. Ravel himself originally called it a Habanera.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Andrew Clarke

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Jan 19, 2021, 7:58:08 AM1/19/21
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The Bozetto Bolero is, frankly, terrifying. But then the whole of Allegro non troppo is a bit scary, despite the humour.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

number_six

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Jan 20, 2021, 2:19:33 PM1/20/21
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Rybczynski is scary as well, albeit in a very different way...but, like Bozetto, using the cumulative power of Ravel's music to underscore his visual narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Vc2ZfVhf0

gggg gggg

unread,
Oct 23, 2021, 11:32:54 AM10/23/21
to
On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 10:46:50 AM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Haha- In 40 years it looks like nobody ever asked this. It's not really a serious question, an I'm not sure it is possible to have a favorite Bolero. But I did listen to a horrible one this morning- Maazel/VPO. Maazel down-shifts the tempo several times leading up to the finale, with one of them a lurching stumble-pause that almost sounds like an editing error. Just horrible.
>
> Any thoughts, feel free to offer them.
>
> If I had to reach for one, it would likely be Cluytens, and not because I recall what it sounds like. It's just where I place my trust.

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical/c/-DxysxTSFjw

Andy Evans

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Oct 23, 2021, 1:12:09 PM10/23/21
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This is like asking "most building friendly earthquake" or "most vegan beefsteak".........

Alex Brown

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Oct 23, 2021, 1:46:38 PM10/23/21
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On 2021-10-23 18:12, Andy Evans wrote:
> This is like asking "most building friendly earthquake" or "most vegan beefsteak".........
>

Coincidentally (and to my surprise), Concertgebouw/Haitink for me.


--
- Alex Brown

Paul A

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Oct 23, 2021, 6:59:35 PM10/23/21
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On Monday, January 18, 2021 at 8:56:27 AM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
Myth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpnjRXX8G0U&ab_channel=JEDATV

gggg gggg

unread,
Jul 19, 2023, 1:41:17 PM7/19/23
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(2023 Y. upload):

"Bolero / Pictures At An Exhibition by Ravel;Mussorgsky;Karajan; Deutsche Grammophon (LPM 39010)1966"
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