Re: Beethoven's late string quartets?
wkasimer
> What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> Smetana, other Quartet?
Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
on RCA.
Bill
mandryka
Yes -- Hagen are very interesting for Op 130/133 and Op 136, and
probably my favourite for Op 136, despite their seriousness.
John Wiser
[mucho snippage]>
> Yes -- Hagen are very interesting for Op 130/133 and Op 136,
> and probably my favourite for Op 136, despite their seriousness.
O I am so out of it
never a clue to a quartettfassung of
Der glorreiche Augenblick
Seriously, you lot are putting the arm on me to
investigate the Hagens. I'm all for the Smetanas
(Denon) but even more for the Beethoven Quartets
in their Supraphon 50th Anniversary issue. Other
than those, the issue becomes historical...
JDW
mandryka
> > "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> he write:
>
> [mucho snippage]>
>
> > Yes -- Hagen are very interesting for Op 130/133 and Op 136,
> > and probably my favourite for Op 136, despite their seriousness.
>
> O I am so out of it
> never a clue to a quartettfassung of
> Der glorreiche Augenblick
>
> Seriously, you lot are putting the arm on me to
> investigate the Hagens.
Ha!
There are two Hagen Op 136s -- one on DVD and one on CD. I only have
the CD -- am I missing out on something interestingly different?
John Wiser
news:07e3f93c-b5d6-4023...@k30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 5:24 pm, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> he write:
>
> [mucho snippage]>
>
> > Yes -- Hagen are very interesting for Op 130/133 and Op 136,
> > and probably my favourite for Op 136, despite their seriousness.
>
> O I am so out of it
> never a clue to a quartettfassung of
> Der glorreiche Augenblick
>
>> Seriously, you lot are putting the arm on me to
>> investigate the Hagens.
> Ha!
> There are two Hagen Op 136s --
> one on DVD and one on CD. I only have
> the CD -- am I missing out on something interestingly different?
My stars! you're very hard to push off base. Review those three
little digits for just a moment please...136? Nuh-uh. It has to be
plain old 135, but I can't josh you into it, you've got to believe.
136 is a rather flyblown celebratory cantata for the Congress of Vienna in
1814. You wouldn't like it, I suspect.
JDW
mandryka
> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
Ah
Dufus
> What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> string quartets?
Cleveland Quartet. But then again , it's the only recording I have of
the late quartets.
Gerard
Thanks.
Are these still available?
jrsnfld
The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
--Jeff
jrsnfld
The later recording is definitely easy to find. The earlier recording
not so, but I see a couple used LP copies on Amazon. I've been wanting
to get that, but I'm too lazy to order it online.
--Jeff
jrsnfld
> What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> Smetana, other Quartet?
>
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_String_Quartets_(Beethoven)>
>
> Dennis
I love the later Denon Smetana Q recording. Nothing against the
earlier Supraphons, but I've spent more time with the later set.
However, the Hollywood, Juilliard (again, I've spent more time with
their 1960s set now on Sony), the Lener,and the Taneyevs are also held
dear. The Yale Q used to seem like a strong contender, but I haven't
heard them in ages. I wish I had the Bartok Q too, since I like them
in the early and middle quartets. There are also oodles of broadcasts
to cherish, from the Auryn, Ebene, Takacs, Leipzig, Artemis, ABQ, and
others.
Now, to describe the differences...that's the useful thing, and I'm
not up to the task at the moment.
--Jeff
Kevin N
The RCA or Telarc series? AFAIK, the Telarc is still available. I only
have their Telarc Middle Quartets, and enjoy their full sound and
aggressive bowing, but they tend to lose their sense of rhythm in a
lot of places.
El Klauso
find myself listening to the quartets done by the Busch Quartet, plus
the Hungarian Quartet mono cycle, and every so often I'll listen to
some of the Budapest's 78's. I also take the shellac Lener's off the
shelf every so often.
Alan Cooper
news:8e99064a-c32a-4471...@y35g2000prc.googlegroups.
com:
Nor am I, although that's a fine batch of recommendations right there: Busch,
Smetana (I prefer the earlier ones), Hollywood, Yale, '60s Juilliard, and Talich
have figured prominently in my listening for many years. Also the Hungarian
monos, the Vlach/Janacek radio broadcasts and the Tatrai Telefunkens
(frustratingly unreissued). Perhaps my favorite set of all is the collection of
live Budapest LC performances on Bridge, which includes the best Grosse Fuge I
know among other delights.
I rotate different sets on and off my ipod, and lately have been listening to
Tokyo Quartet/RCA. Beautiful playing and exquisite ensemble, if anything too
suave. Definitely worth hearing, although the Grosse Fuge doesn't work at all
with its rough edges sanded smooth in this way.
AC
Matthew B. Tepper
the Budapest's stereo intégrale just issued in a Sony box, just because I got
to know Op. 131 from that recording and from the Fine Arts.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
jrsnfld
> jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote innews:8e99064a-c32a-4471...@y35g2000prc.googlegroups.
Doh! I knew I was forgetting something obvious: yes, the Budapest live
from the LoC is a great set. And the Busch are a "must hear" too...I
must do that again soon. I haven't all the Vlach radio broadcasts, but
the ones I have on Praga are great. And the Telefunken Tatrai Op. 74
is staring at me from across the room--I still haven't heard any more
of theirs. There really are so many wonderful recordings of these
works.
> I rotate different sets on and off my ipod, and lately have been listening to
> Tokyo Quartet/RCA. Beautiful playing and exquisite ensemble, if anything too
> suave. Definitely worth hearing, although the Grosse Fuge doesn't work at all
> with its rough edges sanded smooth in this way.
Yes, the Tokyo is ultimately too suave for me, but I keep it for the
beauty and for fond memories of their live cycle over the years that I
was privileged to hear--a rite of devotion to Beethoven it was. Those
were the most polished quartet concerts I've ever heard in person, but
sadly I have heard few of the new, great ensembles in person, so I'm
hardly an expert on the current standards.
--Jeff
Bob Harper
recordings, originally on ASV, now an inexpensive set on Resonance:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//CDRSB801.htm
Not the last word technically, but an intensity in such moments as the
slow movement of 132 that I would not be without.
Bob Harper
Alan Cooper
news:f8bb0df8-6d72-475a...@a28g2000prb.googlegroups.
com:
> Yes, the Tokyo is ultimately too suave for me, but I keep it for
> the beauty and for fond memories of their live cycle over the
> years that I was privileged to hear--a rite of devotion to
> Beethoven it was. Those were the most polished quartet concerts
> I've ever heard in person, but sadly I have heard few of the
> new, great ensembles in person, so I'm hardly an expert on the
> current standards.
My wife and I were privileged to hear the Tokyo many times over the years,
going back to their earliest NY concert appearances. They were always fabulous
in concert, perhaps most memorably (for us) in a multi-concert Brahms series in
Toronto more than 25 years ago. The quartet was augmented by outstanding
Canadian guest artists as necessary. It's a shame that the Tokyo's
extraordinary debut LP (Haydn 76/1 + Brahms 51/2) seems never to have made it
to CD. My copy is the worse for wear, I'm afraid, but it's a valuable memento
of the group's brilliant live performances of the time.
AC
Sol L. Siegel
@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
The Yales, available cheaply in my youth, were imprints,
but I find that they've held up well.
I also listen to the Hollywoods, and a sort of jury-rigged
Budapest set. This latter consists of the Masterworks
Heritage set of 1940s Opp. 127, 131, 132 and 135, the
Biddulph reissue of the 1935 Op. 130, and the stereo
Grosse Fuge on Masterworks Portrait.
I might be in the market for more later, but I don't
want to add much to my collection before I've made my
projected move this spring and installed some new
shelving.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
John Hood
always have more than one version. I have the Tokyo on RCA, the Hungarian
Mono and a couple of others. One quartet cannot do them all justice.
JH
"El Klauso" <ChasJ...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0893af99-cac8-47d2...@s29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Dufus
> The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
>
Since I am of the Stoned Age, my recording of the Cleveland in these
works is the 4 - lp RCA box ARL4-4509 , with Op.127 on plus the Grosse
Fugue.
For Gerard, I unfortunately do not know whether these lp's made it to
cd, or if the Telarc is a later performance. My lp's copyright is
1983, whatever that may mean. I defer to all the greater knowledge
here as I have but the one set of the Late Quartets. All the challenge
I could handle I guess. I do think we discussed here a solo piano
version (?) of the Grosse Fugue, but my advancing dementia obscures.
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
> Nor am I, although that's a fine batch of recommendations right
> there: Busch, Smetana (I prefer the earlier ones), Hollywood, Yale,
> '60s Juilliard, and Talich have figured prominently in my listening
> for many years. Also the Hungarian monos, the Vlach/Janacek radio
> broadcasts
Just to say -- studio recordings by the Vlach and Janacek as well. The
magnificent (reissued) Op 131 by the Vlach, and the ditto Op 135
(unreissued) by the Janacek.
SE.
jrsnfld
> On Feb 11, 12:40 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
>
> Since I am of the Stoned Age, my recording of the Cleveland in these
> works is the 4 - lp RCA box ARL4-4509 , with Op.127 on plus the Grosse
> Fugue.
Judging from some of the comments about the Telarc, you may have the
better of the two sets.
--Jeff
jrsnfld
Yes..opinion on the Lindsays seems divided by those who are sensitive
to intonation problems and those who are not (among other things).
Perhaps they're for the rough and ready, but I think they were
temperamentally a good fit for Beethoven, even if they did
occasionally have trouble with, um, temperament. (My ears,
fortunately, are not real sensitive, and at least one musician friend
of mine likes them as much as I do. But I don't recommend them over
the more polished groups out there.)
--Jeff
jrsnfld
> jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote innews:f8bb0df8-6d72-475a...@a28g2000prb.googlegroups.
It's an LP to play on "special occasions", as the other thread puts
it.
--Jeff
Lena
> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
I'll also state my mild opposition to this whole idea of using lots of
singers in string quartets (even in string quartets of a more
mercantile variety, like this one).
Lena
Lena
Like where? Just interested.
Lena
Terry
I have always liked the Alban Berg Quartet and the Italian Quartet. I heard
the Lindsays a few weeks ago, and I'm tempted to buy their set too.
--
Cheers, Terry
Bob Harper
Now's the time. MDT has the first (and I think better) set cheap.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:4d5691eb$0$30707$5fc...@news.tiscali.nl:
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> - Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:27:25
> -0600:
>
>> I've got (...) Talich.
>
> With Op. 133 on the wrong CD?
'Fraid so, but excellent even still.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:10c6be26-a3b7-4dc5-8f93-
811bcc...@n18g2000vbq.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 11, 9:56�am, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:07e3f93c-b5d6-4023-b818-36afe61ef1ca@k30g2000yqb.
>> googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 11, 5:24 pm, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> he write:
>>
>> > [mucho snippage]>
>>
>> > > Yes -- Hagen are very interesting for Op 130/133 and Op 136,
>> > > and probably my favourite for Op 136, despite their seriousness.
>>
>> > O I am so out of it
>> > never a clue to a quartettfassung of
>> > Der glorreiche Augenblick
>>
>> >> Seriously, you lot are putting the arm on me to
>> >> investigate the Hagens.
>> >
>> > Ha!
>> > There are two Hagen Op 136s --
>> > one on DVD and one on CD. I only have
>> > the CD -- am I missing out on something interestingly different?
>>
>> My stars! you're very hard to push off base. Review those three little
>> digits for just a moment please...136? Nuh-uh. �It has to be plain old
>> 135, but I can't josh you into it, you've got to believe. 136 is a
>> rather flyblown celebratory cantata for the Congress of Vienna in
>> 1814. You wouldn't like it, I suspect.
>
> I'll also state my mild opposition to this whole idea of using lots of
> singers in string quartets (even in string quartets of a more mercantile
> variety, like this one).
Don't tell that to Schoenberg! However, the unfortunate tendency in music
e-sales (as indicated by Apple, anyway) is toward a future when all string
quartet recordings consist of "songs."
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:Xns9E89EE6B7A0...@130.133.4.11:
Good luck with that shelving!
Frank Lekens
No fans of the Emerson Quartet's set on DG here?
(Just curious. It was so cheap I couldn't resist buying it, but haven't
listened to it yet.)
--
Frank Lekens
Terry
Done! Thanks.
--
Cheers, Terry
Miguel Montfort
> No fans of the Emerson Quartet's set on DG here?
Here! Their op. 131 is absolutely enthralling.
I hasten to add I do like the whole set very
much � along with some other traversals.
Miguel Montfort
Ray Hall
More satisfying imho, for depth, than Takacs, Alban Berg and possibly
the Quartetto Italiano, out of the 4 sets I have, despite their
'so-called' technical deficiencies.
Ray Hall, Taree
Oscar
reissued on Everest 3CD via Sony Music (1996)? I have a copy on hold
at a local store. Thanks.
jrsnfld
<frankhaalditmaarweglek...@xs4all.invalid> wrote:
> On 12-2-2011 4:47, Alan Cooper wrote:
>
>
>
I purposely left the Emersons off my lists, so I should comment: I
heard them give an enthralling survey of the Beethoven quartets over
the years, coupled I think with Shostakovich on the same programs.
They are an incredible group and they sound like they know Beethoven
inside out, including on their CDs. Those were great concerts, but
maybe now I'm glad I don't live with that Beethoven at home.
So what's my objection? I guess I equate them a bit with recordings
like Karajan's Strauss, Solti's Wagner, and Toscanini's Beethoven (you
could insert a lot else, but I'm generalizing very broadly here about
each of these). These are fantastic documents all, and I do like them
plenty--maybe more than most people--but I also sense my reaction is
often more like, "Holy Cow, you can make an orchestra do *that*!?"
than anything else.
So the Emersons Beethoven--and I just listened to their 59:1 a bit
today for fun--is a lot like that: "Holy Cow! You can make a string
quartet do *that*!?" Fascinating to the ears, total control, vigorous
sensual excitement. It's a great aesthetic experience, but it's not,
in my soul of souls, about Beethoven.
There's wit, but not really charm, not really a feeling of an
experience that takes you from one state of being to another. Instead,
bring a double espresso and be amazed, over and over, but end up just
as wired as you were before you started listening.
I can see why this is a favorite for some people. Nothing wrong with
that.
--Jeff
Bob Harper
(snip)
>
> I purposely left the Emersons off my lists, so I should comment: I
> heard them give an enthralling survey of the Beethoven quartets over
> the years, coupled I think with Shostakovich on the same programs.
> They are an incredible group and they sound like they know Beethoven
> inside out, including on their CDs. Those were great concerts, but
> maybe now I'm glad I don't live with that Beethoven at home.
>
> So what's my objection? I guess I equate them a bit with recordings
> like Karajan's Strauss, Solti's Wagner, and Toscanini's Beethoven (you
> could insert a lot else, but I'm generalizing very broadly here about
> each of these). These are fantastic documents all, and I do like them
> plenty--maybe more than most people--but I also sense my reaction is
> often more like, "Holy Cow, you can make an orchestra do *that*!?"
> than anything else.
>
> So the Emersons Beethoven--and I just listened to their 59:1 a bit
> today for fun--is a lot like that: "Holy Cow! You can make a string
> quartet do *that*!?" Fascinating to the ears, total control, vigorous
> sensual excitement. It's a great aesthetic experience, but it's not,
> in my soul of souls, about Beethoven.
That's exactly my objection to the Emersons in general. The playing is
absolutely unimpeachable, but in the end it all too frequently isn't
*about* anything. That said, I believe they *can* do it. One of the
greatest performances of anything I ever heard was their Op. 59/3 at
Chamber Music NW some years ago. It closed the first half of the
concert, and at its conclusion the audience positively erupted, and was
right to do so. That performance had it all. After intermission came Op.
131. Perfectly played, but little soul. Too bad.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:73915e48-6c5c-4d41-a627-94ea73bb8cb4
@y12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> So what's my objection? I guess I equate them a bit with recordings like
> Karajan's Strauss, Solti's Wagner, and Toscanini's Beethoven (you could
> insert a lot else, but I'm generalizing very broadly here about each of
> these). These are fantastic documents all, and I do like them plenty--
> maybe more than most people--but I also sense my reaction is often more
> like, "Holy Cow, you can make an orchestra do *that*!?" than anything
> else.
I wish I could remember more than one line of a review I read many years ago:
"Sometimes the orchestra stands on its head just for the hell of it."
Kevin N
It has been a few years since I last listened, but in the e minor
Rasumovsky, they seem to slog through the 16th notes in the first
movement; the ending of the last movement sounds like they're running
out of steam. In the Harp Quartet, the big chords in the 1st movement
intro sound like they're not quite all together.
Lena
> On Feb 12, 3:15 am, Lena <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 11:40 am, Kevin N <bossk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I only
> > > have their Telarc Middle Quartets, and enjoy their full sound and
> > > aggressive bowing, but they tend to lose their sense of rhythm in a
> > > lot of places.
>
> > Like where? [...]
>
> It has been a few years since I last listened, but in the e minor
> Rasumovsky, they seem to slog through the 16th notes in the first
> movement; the ending of the last movement sounds like they're running
> out of steam. [...]
But this has nothing to do with the quartet "losing its sense of
rhythm in a lot of places": these are your subjective feelings about
pace and expression (in a limited number of places).
Actually, it will be difficult to back up your original claim
objectively: there's nothing particularly wrong "in a lot of places"
with the Cleveland Qt.'s "sense of rhythm". (If anything, some people
feel there's too much of it..., ergo occasional accusations of
plodding, "slogging," etc.)
Anyway, perceived problems can go directly to the taste category,
where they belong.
Lena
PS. My original question was asked in reasonably good faith; I was
curious about the subjective take that would prompt such an evaluation
of a quartet that's technically pretty solid.
In the meanwhile, I happened on the Prokofiev 'ridle' solved -thread.
Dismaying. I'm trying to not have this affect my answer, but it may
still do that.
Lena
The Cleveland Beethoven on Telarc is fine, IMO; not terribly colorful
or
spectacular, but has virtues. Some of which aren't terribly common.
It's a pretty solid set, IMO, though presumably not to everyone's
liking. (Simon probably hates them. :) )
I don't know the RCA Beethoven recordings; that quartet was
differently constituted from either the earliest Cleveland or the late
Cleveland of the Telarc.
(I recently happened to hear one movement by the very earliest version
of the Cleveland Qt. -- and ehm, the less said the better. :) )
Lena
(not feeling up to big-time descriptions around this subject,
either...)
Dufus
>
> I don't know the RCA Beethoven recordings; that quartet was
> differently constituted from either the earliest Cleveland or the late
> Cleveland of the Telarc.
>
The RCA box I mentioned was the grouping of Donald Weilerstein,Peter
Salaft,Martha Katz, Paul Katz.
The young American cellist Alisa Weilerstein ins apparently not
related to Donald : http://www.alisaweilerstein.com/biography.php
Lena
OK, many thanks.
(I may be wrong about the timings of the personnel changes vis a vis
the RCA set, btw -- I haven't really excavated around this quartet,
beyond the later Telarc Beethoven recordings. Since there are people
here who are much more expert at different quartet formations, I'll
leave this to them. But one thing I do know is that the RCA personnel
is not the same as the guys on the later set...)
Lena
John Wiser
news:d0692c7b-bdad-44c6...@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 11, 9:55 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 9:03 pm, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 11, 12:40 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
>
> > Since I am of the Stoned Age, my recording of the Cleveland in these
> > works is the 4 - lp RCA box ARL4-4509 , with Op.127 on plus the Grosse
> > Fugue.
>
> Judging from some of the comments about the Telarc, you may have the
> better of the two sets.
> --Jeff
> The Cleveland Beethoven on Telarc is fine, IMO; not terribly colorful
> or spectacular, but has virtues. Some of which aren't terribly common.
> It's a pretty solid set, IMO, though presumably not to everyone's
> liking. (Simon probably hates them. :) )
Simon's taste is by no means simon-pure. He likes performances I find
overdetailed and fussily colored. The Telarc Cleveland's Beethoven playing,
in which William Preucil replaced first violinist Donald Weilerstein, was
exceptionally plain-spoken, strongly oriented to line, intonationally pure.
Absolute keepers.
>I don't know the RCA Beethoven recordings; that quartet was
>differently constituted from either the earliest Cleveland or the late
>Cleveland of the Telarc.
>(I recently happened to hear one movement by the very earliest version
of the Cleveland Qt. -- and ehm, the less said the better. :) )
> Bah! I have been headed off at the pass. In a word: appalling.
JDW
Lena
> "Lena" <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d0692c7b-bdad-44c6...@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 9:55 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 9:03 pm, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 11, 12:40 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
>
> > > Since I am of the Stoned Age, my recording of the Cleveland in these
> > > works is the 4 - lp RCA box ARL4-4509 , with Op.127 on plus the Grosse
> > > Fugue.
>
> > Judging from some of the comments about the Telarc, you may have the
> > better of the two sets.
> > --Jeff
> > The Cleveland Beethoven on Telarc is fine, IMO; not terribly colorful
> > or spectacular, but has virtues. Some of which aren't terribly common.
> > It's a pretty solid set, IMO, though presumably not to everyone's
> > liking. (Simon probably hates them. :) )
>
> Simon's taste is by no means simon-pure. He likes performances I find
> overdetailed and fussily colored. The Telarc Cleveland's Beethoven playing,
> in which William Preucil replaced first violinist Donald Weilerstein, was
> exceptionally plain-spoken, strongly oriented to line, intonationally pure.
> Absolute keepers.
I agree.... fwiw.
I like that characterization about 'line'. It's interesting that they
manage quite decent balances, in addition -- though the friction-
between-voices effects that a few quartets do seem subordinated to the
cause of overall progress... (Or something like that. ;) That sounds
like a bureaucrat of string quartets speaking.)
>
> >I don't know the RCA Beethoven recordings; that quartet was
> >differently constituted from either the earliest Cleveland or the late
> >Cleveland of the Telarc.
> >(I recently happened to hear one movement by the very earliest version
>
> of the Cleveland Qt. -- and ehm, the less said the better. :) )
>
> > Bah! I have been headed off at the pass. In a word: appalling.
>
(laugh)
Lena
Steve Emerson
"John Wiser" <cee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Lena" <emsw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d0692c7b-bdad-44c6...@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 11, 9:55 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 9:03 pm, Dufus <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 11, 12:40 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > The RCA recording or the Telarc recording?
> >
> > > Since I am of the Stoned Age, my recording of the Cleveland in these
> > > works is the 4 - lp RCA box ARL4-4509 , with Op.127 on plus the Grosse
> > > Fugue.
> >
> > Judging from some of the comments about the Telarc, you may have the
> > better of the two sets.
> > --Jeff
>
> > The Cleveland Beethoven on Telarc is fine, IMO; not terribly colorful
> > or spectacular, but has virtues. Some of which aren't terribly common.
> > It's a pretty solid set, IMO, though presumably not to everyone's
> > liking. (Simon probably hates them. :) )
>
> Simon's taste is by no means simon-pure. He likes performances I find
> overdetailed and fussily colored. The Telarc Cleveland's Beethoven playing,
> in which William Preucil replaced first violinist Donald Weilerstein, was
> exceptionally plain-spoken, strongly oriented to line, intonationally pure.
> Absolute keepers.
Any particular high points? How's the Op 130?
Thx,
SE.
Kevin N
There's no reason to doubt that. I think quite often subjective
impressions get passed off as technical defects in a performance in
one way or another here, and being challenged it is always beneficial
- both because it forces the person making such a call to really think
through and give some specific details of a performance and that the
answers provide interesting insights for others.
FWIW I did see the Cleveland Qt perform a number of the Beethoven
quartets live. That was before I was familiar with much of the music,
so I only have a vague subjective impression to report. They seemed
pretty deadpan as performers, though quite impressive technically,
other the violist at the time (Atar Arad) whose left hand looked
cramped and awkward.
Lena
> On Feb 20, 8:40 am, Lena <emswo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> FWIW I did see the Cleveland Qt perform a number of the Beethoven
> quartets live. That was before I was familiar with much of the music,
> so I only have a vague subjective impression to report. They seemed
> pretty deadpan as performers, though quite impressive technically,
> other the violist at the time (Atar Arad) whose left hand looked
> cramped and awkward.
Thanks for the note Please continue giving your impressions,. about
CDs and live performances. (I know this is supposed to be for
'recordings' talk, but it's interesting to hear other people's
thoughts about live performances... and concert reports from the past
are no exception.)
Lena
operafan
> The young American cellist Alisa Weilerstein ins apparently not
> related to Donald :http://www.alisaweilerstein.com/biography.php
She's his daughter.
gggg...@gmail.com
>
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
>
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
>
> Bill
"My Favorite Recordings of Beethoven's Late String Quartets":
http://www.amazon.com/lm/R1D2W42RJOXR0L
gggg...@gmail.com
> On Feb 11, 7:31 am, Dennis <dennis.music...@musicfan.invalid> wrote:
>
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
>
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
>
> Bill
- ...The youthful humour [of the early string quartets] has completely vanished; the occasional signs of optimism quickly die out moments after they appear and the movements sometimes end in uncomfortably inconclusive cadences.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jun/07/classicalmusicandopera.television
gggg...@gmail.com
> On Feb 11, 7:31 am, Dennis <dennis.music...@musicfan.invalid> wrote:
>
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
>
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
>
> Bill
gggg...@gmail.com
> On Feb 11, 7:31 am, Dennis <dennis.music...@musicfan.invalid> wrote:
>
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
>
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
>
> Bill
String Quartet No. 13 in B-Flat Major, Op. 130: V. Cavatina (arr. for string orchestra)
gggg...@gmail.com
gggg gggg
> On Feb 11, 7:31 am, Dennis <dennis.music...@musicfan.invalid> wrote:
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
> Bill
Dave's Faves No. 113 (Beethoven)
gggg gggg
Lawrence Kart
henrysibley
Alex Brown
I suppose one interesting question might be, has anything changed in the
11 years since this was last discussed?
--
- Alex Brown
Mandryka
Herman
> What happened to Lena?
Make that: what happened to RMCR?
Just look at the substance in those comments twelve years back...
gggg gggg
That's what I say to those who have complained about my posts:
- Perhaps naive could be described as one who comes to a RMCR thread expecting something other than gggg dredging up a 10 year old thread...
Bob Harper
discourse? Not much that's good, I fear. As for the Late Quartets, they
are the quintessence of 'music that is greater than it can be played'. I
own most of those mentioned by Mr. Kasimer plus a cou[le he doesn't
mention, and would be loathe to give up any of them.
Bob Harper
henrysibley
a mobile phone since age 7, or acquire that malady in the last 15 years.
I've tired of Beethoven's symphonies, but I will never tire of the
string quartets.
Hank
gggg gggg
> On Feb 11, 7:31 am, Dennis <dennis.music...@musicfan.invalid> wrote:
> > What are currently your favourite recordings of Beethoven's late
> > string quartets? Vegh (2x), Talich, Tacacs, Petersen, Tokyo, Budapest
> > (2x?), Alban Berg (2x), Hollywood, Vermeer, Suske, Guarneri, Leipzig,
> > Smetana, other Quartet?
> Off the top of my head, the Hagen and Smetana (1960's) quartets. And
> I love what I've been able to find of the first Juilliard recordings
> on RCA.
> Bill
Dan Koren
>
> I've tired of Beethoven's symphonies,
> but I will never tire of the string quartets.
dk
MELMOTH
>> but I will never tire of the string quartets.
>
> That will come too, sooner or later.
Dan Koren
Can you listen non-stop to any one
of them? Have you listened non stop
to any one of them, and if so for how
long? Did you take naps or bathroom
breaks while doing it?
For example, I can listen to Iberia non
stop forever, without eating, taking
naps, or going to the bathroom,
only sipping a bit of water while
I listen. Can you do this with LvB's
stringtets? I ask the question .....
dk
MELMOTH
>>> quartets.
>>
>> That will come too, sooner or later.
>
> As far as I am concerned, this will never be my case...
Gilels/Masur 'Live 1976)...And just now to the symphonies 1 and 6 by
Szell (which I hadn't heard in decades by this conductor!)...Of
chilling perfection...
MELMOTH
> 'Live 1976)...And just now to the symphonies 1 and 6 by Szell (which I hadn't
> heard in decades by this conductor!)...Of chilling perfection...
- lukewarm water: with Szell
- hot water : with Ludwig/Vandernoot/Cluytens
- very hot water : with Sanderling
- boiling water : with Masur
Herman
Even in retirement people have stuff to do, have a social life (IRL), share their life with loved ones (who may not be into listening to the same stupid piece of music all day).
Why are people with a mental age of a child spending all their time online? Because they have the mental age of a child.
Trump
> to fifteen different string quartets, but still, the whole idea is
> sophomoric. Childish. Infantile.
Told by an Idiot
Full of Sound and Fury
And signifying Nothing
gggg gggg
"Jan Swafford on Beethoven's Late Quartets"
Dan Koren
May I reecommend silver sulphadiazine?
dk