Listening to Chopin's Nocturnes

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I have Moravec and Wasowski and I like them a lot. Just ordered Freire. The article below is from American Record Guide from several years ago. What are your favorites?

MIFrost

Nocturnes

These are naturally the most atmospheric Chopin pieces--and the most intimate and romantic. We only know about 33 recordings, including partial ones. They are not virtuoso fodder, so many pianists avoid them. Many others do them poorly.

Ivan Moravec's tonal depth, infinite degrees of nuance, rapt concentration, and unerring evocation of mood add up. All our critics endorse Moravec, and the recording is great.

Earl Wild makes them flow beautifully with a natural pace and tone. Nothing sounds artificial or pasted on. This is the most beautiful, most satisfying recording of the Nocturnes.

Nelson Freire is on the same high artistic level (Wild admired him very much), and his readings have tenderness, melancholy, ravishing tone, and great depth.

Andrzey Wasowski takes almost half an hour longer for the set and lets us smell the flowers. His nocturnes are very intense and personal, with lots of poignant expression.

If you want a one-disc selection, all the best nocturnes (14 of them) are (or were) on the Naxos disc, and they are beautifully played.

Wild Ivory 70701
Freire Decca 14053
Moravec Nonesuch 79233
Wasowski Concord 42044
Falvay Naxos 550257

ALSO LIKED

Arrau's readings are sensitive, elegant, and expressive.

Hewitt: excellent but a little calculated & controlled.

James Mertanen: beautiful playing & sound; incomplete.

We found Ricardo Castro's recording quite hypnotic.

Perlemuter has suave urbanity and melancholy ambiance.

Ciccolini is joyous & extraverted, with plenty of big moments.

Abbey Simon: naturalness, inevitability, grace, beauty

Peter Katin is English, and he can be stiff and starched. He has not the natural flow of Moravec or Wild, but he has a strong feel for the mood of each piece. His Nocturnes are as sensitive as Arrau's but much more delicate. The stiffness is only noticeable in certain pieces, when comparing.

MIXED VERDICT

Jean Alexis Smith: some miscalculations, some good ideas.

Sergio Fiorentino is delicate and aristocratic but understated.

Some of us like Pires for her tone; others are bored by her playing.

Bialk can be nice but seems too controlled and matter-of-fact.

Lympany (1960) is sensitive & eloquent but paired with boring waltzes.

Rev: perfumed tone, poetic phrasing, but too much like Rubinstein.

Michele Boegner is on a period instrument, which has pros & cons.

David Allen Wehr: the big virtuoso treatment & rather fast.

NOT LIKED

Amoyel: dreamy, but often too quiet, never virtuosic.

Engerer: elegant & polished, but not satisfying emotionally.

Katz: overplayed; often too fast.

Feltsman is too aggressive & his touch too hard.

Pollini is also too forceful and stormy.

"Nocturnes for cello" is not a good idea.

Rubinstein is arid and drab--no magic.

Harasiewicz: not atmospheric; some are too fast.

Garrick Ohlsson seems too slow and contrived (unnatural).

Maria Tipo also breaks the natural flow to "make points".

Leonskaya: some interesting points, but halting and eccentric.

Kupiec: pretty, but uneventful & noncommittal & shallow

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:18:44 AM UTC-5, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
> I have Moravec and Wasowski and I like them a lot. Just ordered Freire. The article below is from American Record Guide from several years ago. What are your favorites?
>
> MIFrost
>

Listening to Ricardo Castro now on Youtube. Outstanding.

MIFrost

[HT]

À chacun sa musique. I would never call Rubinstein's versions arid and drab. It also surprises me that performances can be compared in this way.

According to the Guide a performance is or has more or less:
aggressive
ambiance
arid
aristocratic
artificial
artistic level
atmospheric
beautiful qua playing and/or sound
big moments
boring
calculated
concentrated
contrived
controlled
degrees of nuance
delicate
depth
drab
dreamy
eccentric
elegant
eloquent
English
eventful
evocation of mood
expressive
extraverted
fast
flow
forceful
graceful
great tone
halting
hard touch
hypnotic
ideas
inevitable
intense
interesting points
intimate
joyous
like Rubinstein
magic
making points
matter-of-fact
melancholic
miscalculated
natural
natural pace and/or tone
nice
noncommittal
overplayed
pasted on
perfumed tone
personal
poetic phrasing
poignance of expression
polished
pretty
quiet
romantic
satisfying
satisfying emotionally
sensitive
shallow
slow
smell [sic!]
starched
stiff
stormy
strong feel
suave
tender
tonal depth
tone
understated
unnatural
urbane
virtuosic
virtuoso treatment

Henk

[Bozo]

>On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:26:19 AM UTC-6, HT wrote:
> À chacun sa musique. I would never call Rubinstein's versions arid and drab.

Nor I. I have heard Moravec's complete and Arrau's complete last (only ? ), both excellent, more interesting than usual, as of course are many others all here have heard. My Rubinstein is his last ; hard to fault that IHMO.

[Herman]

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 9:53:45 AM UTC+1, dk wrote:

>
> I don't find any of the complete Nocturnes sets
> compelling enough in every single nocturne to be
> worth listening to from start to end -- unlike,
> say, the Etudes or the Polonaises.
>
I would have a very hard time listening to more than one Polonaise at a time.

[George P]

Rubinstein's later (stereo) recordings do little for me, while I find the imagination and originality of his early monos to be quite enjoyable. In fact, I didn't like Rubinstein at all until hearing his earlier recordings.

George

[JohnGavin]

I seriously doubt that Chopin intended the Nocturnes or Polonaises to be heard in large groups. That’s something that is necessitated by recordings combined with a fondness for completeness.

Listen, for example how well the 24 Preludes op. 28 work in succession, to drive home the point that the Nocturnes or Polonaises weren’t intended to be heard more than one at a time.

If you do a test as to how a performer finds enough variety to make 5 Nocturnes in a row sound convincing, then I’d say that Moravec, otherwise venerated, would not score very well. For all his admirable control and restrained nuance, one is struck by a certain sameness, which could be called the Moravec Filter.

[O]

In article <3807fb39-6ed7-40dc...@googlegroups.com>,

JohnGavin <dag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I seriously doubt that Chopin intended the Nocturnes or Polonaises to be

> heard in large groups. That零 something that is necessitated by recordings

> combined with a fondness for completeness.

Apropos of the nocturnes in particular, the mood is generally
soporific. Listening to all 21 would be difficult for all but the most
intensely insomniac.

-Owen

[Herman]

I can take three or four nocturnes, but obviously it would be good to intersoerse them wth some good Mazurkas.

[Bozo]

Try Arrau , 1977 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUdoxvigIl8

[Frank Berger]

On 1/18/2018 2:14 PM, Bozo wrote:
> Try Arrau , 1977 :
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUdoxvigIl8
>

The only complete* versions I have are Freire (2009),
Moravec (1965), Reisenberg (1955-57) and Wild (1996). I am
particularly fond of the Reisenberg set.

*The Moravec set doesn't include the posthumous #20 (C-sharp
minor). None of them include #21 (C minor).

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 1:49:18 PM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
> None of them include #21 (C minor).

Arrau's 1977 Philips does.

[Herman]

On Friday, January 19, 2018 at 12:07:23 PM UTC+1, Mike wrote:
> I like "x." Therefore, "x" is what the composer intended. I don't like "y." Therefore, the composer did not intend "y." No evidence, not even a Wikipedia entry, is required in order to make statements about others' intent.
>
That's absolutely right.

The other one is: "x" is one of the first LPs I bought, more than fifty years ago. I still like it better than any other recording of this work. Some call this imprinting; I just happen to think performers and conductors were a lot better fifty years ago.

[Frank Berger]

On 1/19/2018 6:07 AM, Mike wrote:
> I like "x." Therefore, "x" is what the composer intended. I don't like "y." Therefore, the composer did not intend "y." No evidence, not even a Wikipedia entry, is required in order to make statements about others' intent.
>

> On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 11:18:56 AM UTC-5, JohnGavin wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that Chopin intended the Nocturnes or Polonaises to be heard in large groups. That’s something that is necessitated by recordings combined with a fondness for completeness.

Statements of opinion to not require evidence. Statements
of fact do. In my opinion, of course.

[Bozo]

Chopin's own London recitals:

http://www.chopin-society.org.uk/articles/chopin-britain.htm

[graham]

Perhaps there were more musicians and fewer "circus artists"?
Graham

[Da TM]

All you need is the Friedman op 55-2.

[gggg...@gmail.com]

Remember Rubinstein's 1968 recording?:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/recording-february-1968-chopin-nocturnes

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:03:16 AM UTC+2, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Remember Rubinstein's 1968 recording?:
>

Rubinstein's previous Chopin recordings (the mono LPs from the early Fifties) were generally much better

[Herman]

but you would have to listen to those, instead of read and quote.

[HT]

> Remember Rubinstein's 1968 recording?:

I do remember - and still am a great fan of his pre-1970s recordings.

Henk

[AB]

with Ruby, the earlier the better.

AB

[Bozo]

Have now heard Lympany's complete set on YT only, the Dutton cd I believe. Very fine indeed, pity they are not available alone or paired with works other than the Waltzes.Would certainly put her on same level as Rubinstein.I also like Moravec and Arrau as noted earlier.Have not heard most of the others you mentioned . but have heard Ohlsson and Fiorentino. From what I have heard, if permitted only two, would go with Lympany,Arrau ; if just one, Arrau.

Lympany's here with a review by Jed Distler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qjL2qpxHl0

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-7924/

[gggg gggg]

> Harasiewicz: not atmospheric; some are too fast.
>
> Garrick Ohlsson seems too slow and contrived (unnatural).
>
> Maria Tipo also breaks the natural flow to "make points".
>
> Leonskaya: some interesting points, but halting and eccentric.
>
> Kupiec: pretty, but uneventful & noncommittal & shallow

(Recent Y. upload):

Music Chat: Chopin's Nocturnes on the Highway to Heaven (Road Music No. 7)

[Théo Amon]

> Music Chat: Chopin's Nocturnes on the Highway to Heaven (Road Music No. 7)[

My former preference for Arrau's landmark recording was recently superseded by Nikita Magaloff's reading (from his 70s trasversal). Gorgeous sonics, tone and phrasing, for my ears :)

[HT]

Op maandag 13 december 2021 om 15:06:32 UTC+1 schreef Théo Amon:

Seconded! Magaloff is one of my favorite lesser known pianists.

Henk

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 9:06:32 AM UTC-5, Théo Amon wrote:
>
> My former preference for Arrau's landmark

Landmark as in "place worth seeing"?

> recording was recently superseded by Nikita
> Magaloff's reading (from his 70s trasversal).

Outsleeping each other ?!?

> Gorgeous sonics, tone and phrasing, for my ears :)

You definitely need a new pair.

dk

[Dan Koren]

None of the complete sets are
consistently satisfactory to my
ears. One must pick individual
performances.

Except for Freire, I disagree
with MIFrost's choices.

If I were forced to pick just one
complete set, I would probably
go for Claire Huangci, with the
caveat some of them sound a
little overwrought.

https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Diary-Complete-Nocturnes/dp/B06XYS39YF

Mix and match for only $1.29
per nocturne. Quite the deal!

With a Premium YT account,
one can sample for free:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVEZpCroqch2AnSFHQjVVl705_68m8ym8

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:24:36 AM UTC-5, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
> Seconded! Magaloff is one of my favorite lesser known pianists.
>

Magaloff is one of my lesser
favorite known pianists. Not
sure what he was known for
other than teaching Martha
Argerich and a few others,
as well as for sloppiness
and lack of energy on stage.

Compare this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZfEeJkqaFE

to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxEr-don6E0

and this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdIikTjGE0Q

Enjoy!

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Tuesday, December 14, 2021 at 3:51:59 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> If I were forced to pick just one
> complete set, I would probably
> go for Claire Huangci, with the
> caveat some of them sound a
> little overwrought.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Diary-Complete-Nocturnes/dp/B06XYS39YF
>
> Mix and match for only $1.29
> per nocturne. Quite the deal!
>
> With a Premium YT account,
> one can sample for free:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mVEZpCroqch2AnSFHQjVVl705_68m8ym8
>

I am retracting the above
recommendation for Claire
Huagnci. Not because of
how she plays, but rather
because the Stoneway
she uses has a glassy
steely treble, which I
cannot really stand
for much time.

I wish someone gave
her a Fazioli or a well
preserved Pleyel with
a Yamaha CFX action.

dk

[HT]

Op dinsdag 14 december 2021 om 22:39:35 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:

The choice of instrument kept me from buying the set. The same goes for her Rachmaninoff CD. Her Bach, on the other hand, is great.

Henk

[Dan Koren]

> The choice of instrument kept me from
> buying the set. The same goes for her
> Rachmaninoff CD. Her Bach, on the
> other hand, is great.

She definitely deserves something better
than a Stoneway. OTOH she studied and
practices on Stooneways, and might not
feel comfortable with a different kind of
sound and a different kind of action.

dk

[gggg gggg]

(2022 Y. upload):

"The Most Beautiful Passage From Every Chopin Nocturne"