Bernstein's Best Mahler
David Hurwitz
I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus on
this issue. Here is what I came up with:
1. DG
2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
3. Sony
4. Sony
5. DG
6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
7. Sony
8. Sony
9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
Das Lied: Decca
Wunderhorn: Sony
Kindertotenlieder: Baker/Sony
As you can see, I'm sort of on the fence for a few of these.
Thanks in advance for your input.
Dave Hurwitz
Steve Molino
news:68809769.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
I would make 6 (mostly because I like the extra expansiveness in the 1st
movement) and 7 (which is just a tad more wild) in the DG camp, good as the
Sonys are. The one I go back and forth on is 3. Sometimes I like the Sony.
Other times I like the DG.
Paul Goldstein
>
>I know that this subject has come up before, but a friend of mine asked me what
>I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
>videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus on
>this issue. Here is what I came up with:
>
>1. DG
>2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
>3. Sony
>4. Sony
>5. DG
>6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
>7. Sony
>8. Sony
>9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
>Das Lied: Decca
>Wunderhorn: Sony
>Kindertotenlieder: Baker/Sony
The only one that I would disagree with is 4.
Paul Goldstein
Simon Roberts
>I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
>videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus on
>this issue. Here is what I came up with:
>
>1. DG
Yes
>2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
I would take the first Sony
>3. Sony
I would probably take the DG, in part for the sound (though that's hardly ideal
either).
>4. Sony
Probably, at least in the finale....
>5. DG
Yes
>6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
DG for me (but yes, it's close).
>7. Sony
Probably
>8. Sony
DG
>9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
>Das Lied: Decca
>Wunderhorn: Sony
>Kindertotenlieder: Baker/Sony
Yes to all those (I also think, not that it's relevant, that the Baker/Bernstein
Kindertotenlieder are better than her better known recording with Barbirolli).
Simon
David Wesolowicz
DG?
Dave
"Steve Molino" <s_mo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hcXSa.53263$ye5.10...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
David Hurwitz
>The only one that I would disagree with is 4.
>
>Paul Goldstein
>
I'm really curious as to why? I like the DG 4th too, and the playing of the
Concertgebouw is gorgeous, and I'm not even really bothered by the boy soprano,
but I think Reri Grist is just about the best singer on disc in the finale, and
I like the NY slow movement a bit better. What's your take?
Dave
Nicolai P. Zwar
> I also like his Sony Adagio from the 10th a lot. Did he re-record this for
> DG?
He recorded it in 1991 with the Vienna Philharmonic, which was released
by DG.
--
Nicolai Zwar
http://www.nicolaizwar.com
(we're late, we know, and we're still closed)
Alan Cooper
<David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Almost completely agree, except that I have a decided preference for
the first Sony #2 over the DG. I wouldn't call #6 a toss-up either,
since I find the Sony much more thrilling than the DG. It's highly
regrettable that the #3 that LB conducted in his last concert as NYPO
Music Director has never been issued. I may be remembering it through
a haze of nostalgia (and from a first-row seat in front of the
'cellos), but I recall that it was a magnificent performance.
AC
OT PEDANTRY: "Consensus" is frequently misspelled with a "c" in the
middle because people confuse it with "census." In fact, it is
related to "consent."
Nicolai P. Zwar
I'm pretty much there with both David and Simon... in some cases I'd
have to really do comparative listenings to decide. But definitely DG
for 1 and 5, Decca for Lied, and probably Sony for 7. Really close call
in 6, but I'd probably go with DG there, too.
Matthew Silverstein
[snip]
Hmm. I have both cycles, but I've only listened comparatively in 1, 2, 3, 5,
6, 8, and 9. Here are my thoughts:
1. DG (hands down)
2. Sony/NYPO (probably my favorite recording)
3. Toss up
5. DG (hands down)
6. Toss up
8. Sony
9. DG/Concertgebouw (annoying trumpet aside)
Matty
Steve Molino
I think the best singer of the finale is Davrath, but the rest of the
performance is not quite up to that standard. Bernstein/DG for the other
three movements is nearly ideal for me.
Steve Molino
news:FjXSa.23909$BM.74...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> I also like his Sony Adagio from the 10th a lot. Did he re-record this for
> DG?
>
They added a live 10th adagio for the set. I am not a fan of either of his
10ths though (I keep coming back to Szell for that).
David Hurwitz
>
>Matty
>
That orchestra seems to have a history of annoying trumpets--ever hear the
finale of the Beinum Bartok Concerto for Orchestra? It's a scandal.
Dave Hurwitz
Paul Goldstein
>
>David Wesolowicz wrote:
>> I also like his Sony Adagio from the 10th a lot. Did he re-record this for
>> DG?
>
>
>He recorded it in 1991 with the Vienna Philharmonic,
Probably not - he died in 1990, after all.
Paul Goldstein
Paul Goldstein
It's been a long time since I heard the Sony (in fact, I don't think I've ever
heard a CD issue), but I didn't like Grist at all, and the recorded sound was
pretty bad. My favorite soloist in the finale is Davrath.
Paul Goldstein
David Hurwitz
>Almost completely agree, except that I have a decided preference for
>the first Sony #2 over the DG. I wouldn't call #6 a toss-up either,
>since I find the Sony much more thrilling than the DG. It's highly
>regrettable that the #3 that LB conducted in his last concert as NYPO
>Music Director has never been issued. I may be remembering it through
>a haze of nostalgia (and from a first-row seat in front of the
>'cellos), but I recall that it was a magnificent performance.
>
>AC
I was there too, and it WAS magnificent.
>
>OT PEDANTRY: "Consensus" is frequently misspelled with a "c" in the
>middle because people confuse it with "census." In fact, it is
>related to "consent."
I never criticize an editor! Of course, you are right. Thanks for the
correction.
Dave
Matthew Silverstein
> That orchestra seems to have a history of annoying trumpets--ever hear the
> finale of the Beinum Bartok Concerto for Orchestra? It's a scandal.
I've not heard it, and now I'm not exactly eager to seek it out!
Matty
Barry Zukerman
I've heard many, but not all of the Bernstein recordings, so I'll
stick to symphonies for which I'm familiar with both (or all)
available choices.
1) This one is a toss-up for me. I know most people prefer DG, but the
Sony was the first Mahler recording I ever purchased and it still
holds a special place in my collection.
2) First Sony
5) DG (easily my favorite recording of the 5th)
6) DG (one of my two favorites, along with Barbirolli)
7) Sony
9) BPO on DG
Ansermetniac
the DGs do not have- James Chambers on Principal horn. As well as Harold
Gomberg on Oboe John Wummer/Julius Baker on flute and for an added bonus
William Vachiano Nat Prager (until 1963) and Johnny Ware on Trumpet.
Chambers alone is worth the price of admission. Joseph Singer, the associate
principal is on the 4th. The NY Phil recordings make one believe that
Lenny is the reincarnation of Gustav Mahler himself. One should be judged by
your best work. And this is Lenny's best work. And the orchestra is 100%
behind his conception. I have not heard too much of the DG versions but I
have no need because the Sony's are the standard by which all Mahler is
judged.
It is very confusing to me to hear Lenny conduct some other composers. He
has absolutely no feel for their idiom. There is something about Mahler that
Lenny identifies with. It is in his soul. To me Lenny can stand with any
other conductor judging by his Mahler yet he falls short of the minimum for
some composers. I am sure it is partly his great ego. There is something
about Mahler that he understands.
Music is like that. Something for greater minds than me to ponder
Abbedd
"David Hurwitz" <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:68809769.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
David Hurwitz
>It is very confusing to me to hear Lenny conduct some other composers. He
>has absolutely no feel for their idiom.
Ahem...
Dave Hurwitz
Dan Koren
news:Jo_Sa.58352$ye5.11...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
> It is very confusing to me to hear Lenny conduct
> some other composers.
?!?
IIRC Lenny did some of the finest Haydn,
Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Tchaikovsky,
Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Debussy
on record.
Not nearly as shabby as you suggest.
Did he have some blind spots? Of
course. Just like everyone else.
dk
Daniel
conductor. Here are my favorites:
1-CBS
2-DG
3-CBS
4-neither
5-so many people like the DG, and while I like it more than the CBS,
it's not my favorite M5 at all (prob. Sinopoli)
6-CBS
7-CBS slightly more than DG
8-CBS
9-CBS except for the last movement, in which I prefer the DG.
10-CBS
DLVDE-neither
All except 4, 5 and DL are my favorite performances by anyone.
David Hurwitz <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<68809769.0...@drn.newsguy.com>...
Van Eyes
news:Jo_Sa.58352$ye5.11...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net
> The Bernstein Sony's NY Phil except for # 4 has one important weopon that
> the DGs do not have- James Chambers on Principal horn.
Both 4's are topped by too many to make a comparison worthwhile.
> The NY Phil recordings make one believe that
> Lenny is the reincarnation of Gustav Mahler himself. One should be judged by
> your best work. And this is Lenny's best work. And the orchestra is 100%
> behind his conception.
Some of his best work.
> I have not heard too much of the DG versions but I
> have no need because the Sony's are the standard by which all Mahler is
> judged.
Nope, yuh can't do this just by faith.
> It is very confusing to me to hear Lenny conduct some other composers. He
> has absolutely no feel for their idiom.
I have some reservations, too, but "no feel" is harsh.
> There is something about Mahler that
> Lenny identifies with. It is in his soul. To me Lenny can stand with any
> other conductor judging by his Mahler yet he falls short of the minimum for
> some composers.
Mahler was his calling-card, but IMO he also soars with the eagles in
big-band Haydn and Mozart, LvB, Liszt, Schumann, and of course, much
20th C. Americana.
Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Marc Perman
"Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f1c86ca$1...@news.meer.net...
>
> IIRC Lenny did some of the finest Haydn,
> Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Tchaikovsky,
> Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Debussy
> on record.
Not to mention Sibelius, Mozart, Copland, Gershwin, and
Stravinsky.
Marc Perman
Ed
included the video versions.
I would put the video versions of 4, 5, 8, 9 and maybe 7 (for the 1st
mvt) at the top of the pile. In fact I think on balance it is the best
cycle with only the only major problem being the very dodgy sound of 2
(and Bernstein's beard and strange podium manner, for him, in 6).
Ed
Donald C. Patterson
David_...@newsguy.com wrote on 7/21/03 1:49 PM:
> I know that this subject has come up before, but a friend of mine asked me
> what
> I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
> videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus
> on
> this issue. Here is what I came up with:
>
> 1. DG
Heartily agree. A white-hot performance.
> 2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
I tend to prefer the Sony/NYP (not LSO) to the DGG. It seems to have more
of a "sense of occasion" whateverthehellthatmeans.
> 3. Sony
Interpretively, this is a tossup for me, but I lean toward the DGG for the
trombone playing of Joe Alessi.
> 4. Sony
I prefer the DGG until I get to the last movement. :-)
> 5. DG
Agreed.
> 6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
Agreed.
> 7. Sony
Agreed.
> 8. Sony
Agreed.
> 9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
Absolutely. This has to be the most intense recording of the piece I've
ever heard. I loved Ben Pernick's clsing comment in his Fanfare review of
this recording when it first came out..."Recommended, if you can take it".
> Das Lied: Decca
> Wunderhorn: Sony
> Kindertotenlieder: Baker/Sony
>
> As you can see, I'm sort of on the fence for a few of these.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input.
>
> Dave Hurwitz
>
--
Don Patterson
DCP Music Press
Professional Music Copy
and Arrangements
don...@olg.com
Donald C. Patterson
David_...@newsguy.com wrote on 7/21/03 4:41 PM:
...or one of my favorite Mahler 4ths, Mengelberg. The first trumpet,
clarinet, and oboe must be tolerated (but here, Mengelberg makes it worth
it.)
Owen Hartnett
<896df6ae2b7ebc31887...@mygate.mailgate.org>, Van Eyes
<van...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > The NY Phil recordings make one believe that
> > Lenny is the reincarnation of Gustav Mahler himself. One should be judged by
> > your best work. And this is Lenny's best work. And the orchestra is 100%
> > behind his conception.
>
> Some of his best work.
I remember in the 70's when the cycles first came out and there was
somewhat of a battle in the magazine reviews (Stereo Review, High
Fidelity) between the conceptions of Lenny, Solti and Tennstedt (who
were all going at it at the time). Of course, while all survive with
splendid performances, Lenny's cycle is the one that will be regarded
highest.
-Owen
David Hurwitz
>> That orchestra seems to have a history of annoying trumpets--ever hear the
>> finale of the Beinum Bartok Concerto for Orchestra? It's a scandal.
>>
>> Dave Hurwitz
>>
>
>...or one of my favorite Mahler 4ths, Mengelberg. The first trumpet,
>clarinet, and oboe must be tolerated (but here, Mengelberg makes it worth
>it.)
>
That's for sure!
Dave Hurwitz
Joseph Vitale
> I know that this subject has come up before, but a friend of mine
> asked me what I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on
> disc (not counting the videos), symphony by symphony, and I was
> wondering if there is any concensus on this issue. Here is what I came
> up with:
I have the complete Sony box and the individual DG issues of numbers 2, 3,
5, 6, 7, & 9. Out of these, I really find it impossible to choose a favored
performance between 3, 7, & 9 -they are each excellent in their own way. I
believe I like the CBS Second more over the DG performance as I find the
older CBS reading more structurally sound. However, I like the DG Sixth
more than the CBS reading. The CBS Sixth is great -one of my favorites, but
the DG Sixth I find not only one of the greatest performances of the Mahler
Sixth, but one of the greatest performances of anything. It's simply
shattering (if I may use that over used word).
JV
Richard Schultz
:>OT PEDANTRY: "Consensus" is frequently misspelled with a "c" in the
:>middle because people confuse it with "census." In fact, it is
:>related to "consent."
:
: I never criticize an editor! Of course, you are right. Thanks for the
: correction.
Does this mean that in the future you'll be spelling Yoel Levi's name
correctly?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Richard Schultz
: In article <3F1C4848...@bigfoot.com>, "Nicolai says...
:>He recorded it in 1991 with the Vienna Philharmonic,
:
: Probably not - he died in 1990, after all.
I know that in at least one performance he gave with the VPO of Brahms's
4th symhphony, in the scherzo, he just gave them the downbeat and let them
play the rest without any further direction from him. It seems to me that
conducting from beyond the grave is the logical next step for him to
have taken.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Van Eyes
news:210720032302188375%ow...@xids.xnet
> I remember in the 70's when the cycles first came out and there was
> somewhat of a battle in the magazine reviews (Stereo Review, High
> Fidelity) between the conceptions of Lenny, Solti and Tennstedt (who
> were all going at it at the time). Of course, while all survive with
> splendid performances, Lenny's cycle is the one that will be regarded
> highest.
Kubelik and Haitink were also involved in early '70's cycle/set races.
Tennstedt was later.
Lenny's NYPO/Sony (recs) - 1960 to 1967
Solti LSO/ACO/CSO/Decca (recs) - 1961 - 1971
Haitink ACO/Philips (recs) - 1962 to 1971
Kubelik BavRSO/DG (recs)- 1967 to 1971
Tennstedt LPO/EMI (recs) - 1977 to 1986
I don't know when sets were issued, and what the sales figures were. Nor
do I know what the worldwide opinion was. I recall Lenny having a
distinct North American marketing advantage, with his sewing the Mahler
seed via CBS Young People's Concerts. But then again, IIRC, someone at
rmcr said that North American Bernstein releases were often later than
other regions.
Eric Nagamine
> I know that this subject has come up before, but a friend of mine asked me what
> I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
> videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus on
> this issue. Here is what I came up with:
>
I think the Concertgebouw recording is one of the best period.
> 2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
In some ways I like the perversely recorded LSO version as an
alternative to the DG. The DG recording has superior ensemble than the
previous 2 and Bernstein's reading really benefits from it. It would be
interesting if the BSO would issue that bootleg recording from the
1940's with Bernstein.
> 3. Sony
It's a toss up. The Sony has a bit more intensity, but the orchestral
playing is considerably improved in the DG. Note the basses in the
"Rabble" are more cleanly articulated in the DG. Similarly, the horns in
the 4th movement are better focused tonally in the DG. I prefer Joe
Alessi's T-bone solo in the DG, but both Phil Smith & John Ware do
stellar work in the posthorn solos. Bernstein really owned this work
IMO, and I wouldn't want to be with out either.
> 4. Sony
The Philharmonic's playing is a bit bloated sounding too me. The
Concertgebouw's sound is superior to my ears, though the use of the boy
soloist really doesn't work.
> 5. DG
Superior playing by the VPO & the best sound by DG in their cycle.
> 6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
I've always been disappointed with both. Even the VPO Carnegie Hall
concert from around the time of the DG recording was disappointing. I
would have thought that LB would have identified with the work like the
3rd symphony, but he seems to lack that totally overwhelming feeling
that say Mitropoulous did in his NYP performance. I'd really opt for the
VPO video in the case of the 6th symphony.
> 7. Sony
The DG again has better playing from the Philharmonic, at perhaps some
loss in intensity in comparison to the Sony. However, I've always
thought the Sony to be lacking in orchestral color, something that the
DG recording captures better.
> 8. Sony
Sorry, but again, I think the DG video is superior performance. I think
even the DG recording from Salzburg is superior to the Sony. The sony I
think has a less than great set of soloists & I don't think the
recording shows the LSO to good advantage. Too bad LB didn't live long
enough to do a remake.
> 9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
I've found the NYP version to be disappointing. The DG recording is more
intense to my ears and his drawnout finale really works. I've never
found the BPO or BSO recordings to be anything special. I guess you had
to be there.
> Das Lied: Decca
One of the few VPO Mahler recordings that show off the how good that
they can be in Mahler. James King isn't my cup of tea, but he does sound
more heldentenor like than in the Haitink. For the life of me I can't
see why LB & Solti used Rene Kollo in their other recordings.
> Wunderhorn: Sony
Agreed. Mr. & Mrs. Berry were in great form along with the Philharmonic.
> Kindertotenlieder: Baker/Sony
In comparison to the Tourel recording, this one's light years ahead,
though I think LB conducted the work better with a male voice (Hampson).
The VPO was in great form for that one as well. I don't know how Tourel
sounded in her younger days, but by the time she the Lieder recordings
with LB, she sounded absolutely terrible.
> As you can see, I'm sort of on the fence for a few of these.
>
> Thanks in advance for your input.
>
> Dave Hurwitz
>
IMHO, in just about every DG remake, the level of orchestral technique &
ensemble is superior to the Columbia/Sony issues. To my ears, Mehta's
Phiharmonic was a superior band and the their playing for LB pays off
big time. There are some losses in emotional intensity in the remakes,
but apart from the 3rd which is a toss up for me, I think the remakes
take prize.
--
-----------
Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/mahlerb/broadcaststartpage.html
David Hurwitz
>
>In article <68820026.0...@drn.newsguy.com>, David Hurwitz
><David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>:>OT PEDANTRY: "Consensus" is frequently misspelled with a "c" in the
>:>middle because people confuse it with "census." In fact, it is
>:>related to "consent."
>:
>: I never criticize an editor! Of course, you are right. Thanks for the
>: correction.
>
>Does this mean that in the future you'll be spelling Yoel Levi's name
>correctly?
>
No guraanties.
Dvae
Eric Nagamine
> On 21 Jul 2003 10:49:29 -0700, David Hurwitz
> <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I know that this subject has come up before, but a friend of mine asked me what
>>I thought Bernstein's best Mahler performances were on disc (not counting the
>>videos), symphony by symphony, and I was wondering if there is any concensus on
>
> Almost completely agree, except that I have a decided preference for
> the first Sony #2 over the DG. I wouldn't call #6 a toss-up either,
> since I find the Sony much more thrilling than the DG. It's highly
> regrettable that the #3 that LB conducted in his last concert as NYPO
> Music Director has never been issued. I may be remembering it through
> a haze of nostalgia (and from a first-row seat in front of the
> 'cellos), but I recall that it was a magnificent performance.
>
My understanding is the that the last concerts as music director were
not broadcast, so presumably not recorded. Would be great if a recording
did turn up though.
Anyone know what the status is of the Philharmonic's plans to issue
another set with the possibly the Philharmonic Mahler 8th & Das Lied?
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:bfifm7$v3$6...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <68820026.0...@drn.newsguy.com>, David Hurwitz
> <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>:>OT PEDANTRY: "Consensus" is frequently misspelled with a "c" in the
>:>middle because people confuse it with "census." In fact, it is
>:>related to "consent."
>:
>: I never criticize an editor! Of course, you are right. Thanks for the
>: correction.
>
> Does this mean that in the future you'll be spelling Yoel Levi's name
> correctly?
You mean like yod, vav, aleph, lamed?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Richard Schultz
: sch...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) appears to have caused the
: following letters to be typed in news:bfifm7$v3$6...@news.iucc.ac.il:
:> Does this mean that in the future you'll be spelling Yoel Levi's name
:> correctly?
:
: You mean like yod, vav, aleph, lamed?
I was more concerned with the lamed-vav-yod part, which was the part with
which Mr. Hurwitz was having difficulties. Even after my little 1960's-era
joke.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>The Bernstein Sony's NY Phil except for # 4 has one important weopon that
>the DGs do not have- James Chambers on Principal horn. As well as Harold
>Gomberg on Oboe John Wummer/Julius Baker on flute and for an added bonus
>William Vachiano Nat Prager (until 1963) and Johnny Ware on Trumpet.
>
>Chambers alone is worth the price of admission. Joseph Singer, the associate
>principal is on the 4th. The NY Phil recordings make one believe that
>Lenny is the reincarnation of Gustav Mahler himself. One should be judged by
>your best work. And this is Lenny's best work. And the orchestra is 100%
>behind his conception. I have not heard too much of the DG versions but I
>have no need because the Sony's are the standard by which all Mahler is
>judged.
How do you know it is if you haven't heard "too much" of the DG?
>It is very confusing to me to hear Lenny conduct some other composers. He
>has absolutely no feel for their idiom.
Which composers do you have in mind?
Simon
Nicolai P. Zwar
>>
>>>I also like his Sony Adagio from the 10th a lot. Did he re-record this for
>>>DG?
>>
>>
>>He recorded it in 1991 with the Vienna Philharmonic,
>
>
> Probably not - he died in 1990, after all.
Oh, dang, you are right, I screwed up. The recording is from 1974, I
meant to say it was released in 1991.
--
Nicolai Zwar
http://www.nicolaizwar.com
(we're late, we know, and we're still closed)
sorach
> 2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
How is the Sony here? I find the DG too theatrical.
> 3. Sony
Why not DG?
> 6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
VPO please this greatly. No scheise musik here.
> 9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
How about DG BPO right after his wife's death? Is it worth getting that one
if I own above mentioned?
Rodger Whitlock
> Lenny's NYPO/Sony (recs) - 1960 to 1967
> Solti LSO/ACO/CSO/Decca (recs) - 1961 - 1971
> Haitink ACO/Philips (recs) - 1962 to 1971
> Kubelik BavRSO/DG (recs)- 1967 to 1971
> Tennstedt LPO/EMI (recs) - 1977 to 1986
Don't leave out Abravanel/Utah.
--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
David Hurwitz
>
>David Hurwitz <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>
>> 2. DG (with the first Sony as a close runner up)
>How is the Sony here? I find the DG too theatrical.
>
>> 3. Sony
>Why not DG?
Sony is a little wilder for me, DG better played. You won't go wrong with DG
either.
>
>
>> 6. Sony (with DG very close--really a toss-up)
>VPO please this greatly. No scheise musik here.
Indeed they do. I really can't decide between them.
>
>
>> 9. DG-Concertgebouw (with Sony very close)
>How about DG BPO right after his wife's death? Is it worth getting that one
>if I own above mentioned?
I find the Berlin performance to be terrible; it's basically the same as the
Concertgebouw, only with some really awful playing.
>
Ray Hall
| The Bernstein Sony's NY Phil except for # 4 has one important weopon that
| the DGs do not have- James Chambers on Principal horn. As well as Harold
| Gomberg on Oboe John Wummer/Julius Baker on flute and for an added bonus
| William Vachiano Nat Prager (until 1963) and Johnny Ware on Trumpet.
|
| Chambers alone is worth the price of admission. Joseph Singer, the
associate
| principal is on the 4th. The NY Phil recordings make one believe that
| Lenny is the reincarnation of Gustav Mahler himself. One should be judged
by
| your best work. And this is Lenny's best work. And the orchestra is 100%
| behind his conception. I have not heard too much of the DG versions but I
| have no need because the Sony's are the standard by which all Mahler is
| judged.
Absolutely in agreement with the above. The NYPO is a Mahlerian orchestra,
totally committed, and Lenny was in his prime. Which is why the Sony Mahler,
in the end, beats anything that DG and the VPO serve up as "sheisse musik".
No competition really in my book, and although the DG 5th happens to be my
preference, the Sony set is one that has real intensity, and the thoughts of
a great conductor over a fairly short span of time, when he was mostly ON.
Remakes are rarely successful imo, (although that is a sweeping statement
which can be proven wrong), but in the case of Bernstein and Mahler, for me
the answer is ultimately a no-brainer.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
Joseph Vitale
news:3f1d4700...@news.newsguy.com:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:22:14 +0000 (UTC), Van Eyes wrote:
>
>> Lenny's NYPO/Sony (recs) - 1960 to 1967
>> Solti LSO/ACO/CSO/Decca (recs) - 1961 - 1971
>> Haitink ACO/Philips (recs) - 1962 to 1971
>> Kubelik BavRSO/DG (recs)- 1967 to 1971
>> Tennstedt LPO/EMI (recs) - 1977 to 1986
>
> Don't leave out Abravanel/Utah.
>
>
Or Abbado! (DG-CSO/VPO/BPO)
JV
Van Eyes
news:Xns93C0BA1D62A...@204.127.204.17
> totototo...@mail.pacificcoast.invalid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
> news:3f1d4700...@news.newsguy.com:
> >
> > Don't leave out Abravanel/Utah.
> >
>
> Or Abbado! (DG-CSO/VPO/BPO)
There are numerous 1-9 sets now, and the soon-to-be-completed Gielen may
be the most even (in a good sense) of them all.
David Hurwitz
says...
>
>"Joseph Vitale" <jvi...@uic.edu> wrote in message
>news:Xns93C0BA1D62A...@204.127.204.17
>
>> totototo...@mail.pacificcoast.invalid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
>> news:3f1d4700...@news.newsguy.com:
>> >
>> > Don't leave out Abravanel/Utah.
>> >
>>
>> Or Abbado! (DG-CSO/VPO/BPO)
>
>There are numerous 1-9 sets now, and the soon-to-be-completed Gielen may
>be the most even (in a good sense) of them all.
>
>
>Regards
I think it will depend on whether or not the Ninth is new (as they say it will
be, but you never know) or the old Intercord issue, which wasn't to interesting.
The only weak link in Gielen's cycle so far as been the 4th, I think.
Wait until you hear his new First. It's a stunner.
Dave Hurwitz
Ryan M. Hare
recordings are the best. It's too bad most people ignore the videos: some of
them are really terrific, and available on DVD now.
Anyway, I thought it might be fun to do yet another list with everyone's
takes on Lenny's best. To get it started, here are some of my faves:
On Sony:
Beethoven: Symphony 3
Hindemith: Symphony in E-flat, Konzertmusik for Strings and Brass, Symphonic
Metamorphoses
Mahler: Symphonies 3, 6, 9
Nielsen: Symphonies 3, 5
Sibelius: Symphonies 2, 5
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring (NYPO or LSO), Symphony of Psalms, Pulcinella
Shostakovich: Symphonies 5 (the 1959 one), 9
Ives: everything Bernstein recorded
Copland: ditto
Carter: Concerto for Orchestra
On DGG:
Mozart: Symphonies 35, 38-41
Beethoven: orchestrations of String Quartets
Schumann: Symphonies 1-4
Brahms: Symphonies 1, 4
Bruckner: Symphony 9
Mahler: Symphonies 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 (Concertgebouw)
Shostakovich: Symphony 7
Stravinsky: Symphony in 3 Mvts, Symphony in C
Ives: everything
Schuman: Symphony 3
on the NYPO box:
Varese: Arcana (this must be heard to be believed!)
I'm sure I'm leaving worthy stuff out. Comments!!?
Ryan
Ryan M. Hare
"Van Eyes" <van...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:32aa06d48db11bf4297...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> There are numerous 1-9 sets now, and the soon-to-be-completed Gielen may
> be the most even (in a good sense) of them all.
I've only heard Gielen's Mahler 8, but it is stunning. For me, it easily
passes Solti on my favorite Eighths list (which is a short list).
Ryan
Johannes Roehl
> On Sony:
>
> Beethoven: Symphony 3
> Hindemith: Symphony in E-flat, Konzertmusik for Strings and Brass, Symphonic
> Metamorphoses
> Mahler: Symphonies 3, 6, 9
I'd add the Haydn Paris symphonies (maybe some more Haydn, I am not
through with the two massses and the Creation yet), Mahler 2nd,
Beethoven's Missa and a disc 'Bernstein conducts Bernstein' with West
Side story dances, Candide ouverture etc.; I also like Prelude,
Fugue&Riffs w/ Goodman (CBS/Sony; no idea if available)
And of course the two or three Beethoven concertos (IIRC 2-4) with Gould
on the piano.
Johannes
Johannes Roehl
Gielen's recording the 1st is about to appear next month or so, so only
the fifth is missing AFAIK, unless he is going to rerecord the 9th
(rather than reissue the late 80ties one from Intercord).
Johannes
DelMarva LaPoule
recommend The DG Mahler 3rd and 7th, Randall Thompson's Second, and the
Haydn 82 and 86 (extraordinary!) and, of course, La Poule.
Simon Roberts
>
>There is an ongoing discussion as to which of Leonard Bernstein's Mahler
>recordings are the best. It's too bad most people ignore the videos: some of
>them are really terrific, and available on DVD now.
>
>Anyway, I thought it might be fun to do yet another list with everyone's
>takes on Lenny's best. To get it started, here are some of my faves:
>
>On Sony:
>
>Beethoven: Symphony 3
>Hindemith: Symphony in E-flat, Konzertmusik for Strings and Brass, Symphonic
>Metamorphoses
>Mahler: Symphonies 3, 6, 9
>Nielsen: Symphonies 3, 5
>Sibelius: Symphonies 2, 5
>Stravinsky: Rite of Spring (NYPO or LSO), Symphony of Psalms, Pulcinella
>Shostakovich: Symphonies 5 (the 1959 one), 9
>Ives: everything Bernstein recorded
>Copland: ditto
>Carter: Concerto for Orchestra
I would add to the Sony list Haydn 92-88, 95, 97, 102 (and perhaps one or two
more), masses, Creation; Beethoven Missa Solemnis, ct1 2 & 4 with Gould, King
Stephen and Consecration Ovs., Syms 1, 2, 4, 7 (plus scherzo of 9). (I would
probably add to your DG list too, but I'm more-or-less blanking.)
Simon
Kevin Ward
have Nos. 131 and 135. It's almost like having new Beethoven symphonies and
is a great way to introduce the string quartet to people who think they wont
like them. I'd love to hear the Grosse Fuge interpreted this way.
Oddly enough I don't care much for Bernstein's Schubert Symphony No. 7(8)
"Unfinished." There are ascending string flourishes in the mid-first
movement (I don't know how to describe them) that I'm used to hearing as
arpeggios or series of quick grace notes, but Bernstein interprets them
almost as a glissando. It's just not right to me.
I wish he could have spent more of his energies toward composing. Much as I
hate musical theater, there are some remarkable, unforgettable melodic and
rhythmic material in West Side Story.
Kevin
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/alienart/
"Ryan M. Hare" <rh...@NOSPAM.oz.net> wrote in message
news:bfs26l$teb$0...@216.39.146.218...
David Wake
I would add, most emphatically, Sibelius symphonies 6 and 7 (NYPO/Sony).
David
Larry Rinkel
- the Paris symphonies of Haydn on Sony
- the Shapero Symphony for Classical Orchestra, one of his first recordings
- the excerpts from Berlioz's Roméo with the NY Phil
- the Berg 3 Pieces for Orchestra from the NY Phil Historic Broadcasts set
(also must heard to be believed, makes you weep that he never recorded
"Wozzeck").
- almost any of the Young Person's Concerts and Omnibus scripts I've read
- and though Lenny as a composer had his weaknesses, IMO almost all of
"Candide" is terrific, and I like the setting of Whitman's "To what you
said" in "Songfest."
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
> Bernstein generally leaves me with a bad case of nausea, but I would
> recommend The DG Mahler 3rd and 7th, Randall Thompson's Second, and the
> Haydn 82 and 86 (extraordinary!) and, of course, La Poule.
I agree that Lenny was particularly fine in Haydn, certainly worth the
bucks. Buck buck buck buck....
taro takei
> On Sony:
I would like to add:
W. Schuman, Symphony No.3
davyd
news:3F2197B0...@physik.uni-giessen.de...
> I also like Prelude,
> Fugue&Riffs w/ Goodman (CBS/Sony; no idea if available)
Amazon lists it as part of three different issues. For a solo piece, it
doesn't give the soloist a lot of work. But it's terrific anyhow.
DelMarva LaPoule
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:43:16 GMT, DelMarva LaPoule
> <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Bernstein generally leaves me with a bad case of nausea, but I would
>>recommend The DG Mahler 3rd and 7th, Randall Thompson's Second, and the
>>Haydn 82 and 86 (extraordinary!) and, of course, La Poule.
>>
>>
>
> Your problem with Lenny sounds more like pathology rather than mere
> biliousness. Open your ears and mind, if you will. There's a rich
> discography of wonderful interpretations that surpass the usual "Old
> Wold" suspects.
Aw, shucks. You have a hero. That's nice.
I have heroes too.
My heroes, however, have dignity.
Eric Nagamine
> There is an ongoing discussion as to which of Leonard Bernstein's Mahler
> recordings are the best. It's too bad most people ignore the videos: some of
> them are really terrific, and available on DVD now.
>
> Anyway, I thought it might be fun to do yet another list with everyone's
> takes on Lenny's best. To get it started, here are some of my faves:
>
> Mahler: Symphonies 3
> Nielsen: Symphonies 5
+ the Flute/Clarinet concerti
> Shostakovich: Symphonies 5 (the 1959 one).....
>
> On DGG:
>
> Mahler: Symphonies 3, 5
> Shostakovich: Symphony 7....
>
+
Gotterdammerung excerpts in the NYP box.
Gershwin Rhapsody/American on Columbia.
Copland 3rd on DG
Hindemith Symphonic Metamorphosis/Konzert musik for brass & strings DG
Thomas: Mignon overture Columbia
Mahler 6 & 8, Lieder on Universal DVDs
Mahler 2nd 5th movement w/ Israel Phil in Hebrew on Columbia
Bernstein: West side Story Symphonic Dances on Columbia
Revueltas: Sensemaya on Columbia
Corigliano: Clarinet Concerto on NYP editions
Norman Schwartz
> recordings are the best. It's too bad most people ignore the videos: some
of
> them are really terrific, and available on DVD now.
>
> Anyway, I thought it might be fun to do yet another list with everyone's
> takes on Lenny's best. To get it started, here are some of my faves:
>
> On Sony:
>
Goldmark "Rustic Wedding" Symphony
On DG
Pulcinella (Suite)/Israel PO
Your Pal Brian
> On DGG:
>
> Mozart: Symphonies 35, 38-41
Requiem.
I have his DG Haydn 88 & 92 VPO, which I recall as being very dull. Anyone
think it's worth another listen?
Brian
Ansermetniac
flames to my attention either here or at my email address.
Get Lenny's video of his Young People's Concert with the subject What makes
Music Symphonic? What he says about rock music is obnoxious. What he said
would apply to his amazing songs from West Side Story as well. An
interesting sidelight to this video---William Vachianio, the pricinipal
trumpeter is seen yawning and falling into his stand during Lenny's
rhetoric.
Abbedd
"Ryan M. Hare" <rh...@NOSPAM.oz.net> wrote in message
news:bfs26l$teb$0...@216.39.146.218...
David Hurwitz
says...
>
>The Best of Lenny? With the excepetion of Mahler that is an oxymoron. Send
>flames to my attention either here or at my email address.
>
Actually, even if you detest Bernstein, you should be able to recognize the
things he did to the best of his ability (at whatever level of ability you
believe he was working)--whether or not you think they ARE the best in any
general or absolute sense is a quite different matter. Of course, others may
find your position ridiculous, but that doesn't mean that you can't offer an
opinion consistent with the subject of the thread.
I wonder, though, as to how much Bernstein (or Ansermet) for that matter you
actually know. I was very surprised to see that you did not know, for example,
Ansermet's Chausson, and it goes without saying in these discussions (and as
often as not without questioning) that everyone chimes in with answers but we
seldom know the knowledge base from which they come. This is not, I hasten to
add, an attack on you personally or an attempt to question the validity of your
views, but when people hold convictions as strong as yours, it's always
itneresting to know something about the foundation in real listening experience
from which these opinions arise.
Don't feel obligated to answer if you find the question annoying; I'm just
expressing my own personal curiosity.
Dave Hurwitz
Simon Roberts
Do you mean he was only at his best in Mahler or he was only good at Mahler?
Either way, I'm not sure you know what an oxymoron is....
Simon
Owen Hartnett
<David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Bernstein has always been a source of surprises to me: Just when you
think you've got him figured out, categorized, dismissed, you hear
something that just blows you away, or you rehear something from long
ago in an entirely different light.
My favorite recollections of Lenny was his live conducting from the
keyboard of Mozart concerti.
-Owen
Richard Bernas
Verdi: Falstaff
Haydn: Theresa and Nelson Masses
Foss: Time Cycle
Milhaud: Les Chorephores
Ravel : Scheherezade (with Tourel)
Strongly disagree about the Carter Concerto recording, which all the
panache you'd expect but is too sloppy to be counted a success.
Richard
Ryan M. Hare
"Owen Hartnett" <ow...@xids.xnet> wrote in message
news:260720031135449640%ow...@xids.xnet...
> Bernstein has always been a source of surprises to me: Just when you
> think you've got him figured out, categorized, dismissed, you hear
> something that just blows you away, or you rehear something from long
> ago in an entirely different light.
With Bernstein, I've had these sorts of experiences many times. I finally
caved in a couple of years ago and admittedly to myself that Bernstein was a
truly great conductor.
Ryan
Ryan M. Hare
"Larry Rinkel" <LRi...@optunderline.net> wrote in message
news:ZIkUa.148665$ye5.26...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> - the Berg 3 Pieces for Orchestra from the NY Phil Historic Broadcasts set
> (also must heard to be believed, makes you weep that he never recorded
> "Wozzeck").
Damn it! OKay, maybe I really do need to shell out the bux for this box.
> - and though Lenny as a composer had his weaknesses, IMO almost all of
> "Candide" is terrific, and I like the setting of Whitman's "To what you
> said" in "Songfest."
Indeed. I also like plenty of West Side Story and the symphonic piece "On
the Waterfront" which he wrote to be the accompaying soundtrack for the
movie of the same name.
Ryan
Bloom
>
> Fugue&Riffs w/ Goodman (CBS/Sony; no idea if available)
>
It's available on a CBS masterworks CD entitled The Benny Goodman
Collection. I agree that it's one of Lenny's "best". Continuing with
Lenny's own compositions, I can't get enough of Serenade after Plato's
Symposium, the Age of Anxiety (second symphony) and Chichester Psalms.
I have the Sony recordings of all of those.
-Billy
Johannes Roehl
>
> Johannes Roehl <johanne...@physik.uni-giessen.de> wrote in message news:<3F2197B0...@physik.uni-giessen.de>...
> >
> >I also like Prelude,
> > Fugue&Riffs w/ Goodman (CBS/Sony; no idea if available)
> It's available on a CBS masterworks CD entitled The Benny Goodman
> Collection. I agree that it's one of Lenny's "best".
IIRC that's the one I have, but it's ancient (about 12+ years; it also
includes Copland's and Stravinsky's Concertos etc., unfortunately in
less than good sound as it is typical of many early CBS CDs of older
recordings) and should have been replaced by more recent issues.
Johannes
Ansermetniac
I have almost of all of Lenny's NY Phil recordings in my study of my idol
James Chambers principal horn 1946-1968. Because of this I have many
recordings of Walter Mitropolus and Stoky that I would never have bought.
Lenny's romantic period recordngs make me nervous. The lp sound from
Columbia did not help but he approved those multimiked disasters recorded in
bad halls. Or were they recorded in the subway. Chambers is heard to better
effect in the mono and early stereo recordings of DM amd BW. When I made up
my excerpt cd I chose those recordings becasue you could hear the horn
better.
I learned the Tchaik 4th from Lenny's 1958 lp. I then relearned it from
Stoky's NBC 78s. I collect the NBC too. But I relearned it for good from
Cantelli's 1954 NBC broadcast that I got years before the M & A CDS from
N.E. Brown. Can Lenny be put in the class of Cantelli when comparing these
perfromances.
A while back I posted mp3s of Lenny and Ansermet conducting the first mvt of
the Haydn 84. One is a performance by a master of orchestal sound phrasing
and architechture. And it ain't Lenny.
Maybe Lenny is a good conductor outside of Mahler, I do not think he can
stand in the league of the conductors I listen to regularly
1) Ansermet
2)Toscanini
3) Cantelli
4)Argenta
5)Casals
and Colin Davis when the others do not play the repetory(The ritornello of
the Turkish with Grumiaux is sublime).
Regarding Ansermet. I have every one of his recordings except one. To make
up for this I probably have the largest live Ansermet archive in the
country. I do not know the Chausson well because I prefer German and Russian
Music better. I could do without La mer but I could not do without the
Jupiter which I have in an amazing perfromace with the BSO. I could do
without La Valse but could not do without the Sibelius Second
I posted my Ansermet top 10 a while back . here it is again
No Piece My best source
1 Mozart Gran Partita Japanese CD
2 Haydn Symphony #90 LP unfortunately
3 Mozart Symphony #38 78 see culshaws book as
to why the lp is inadaquate
4 Fairy's Kiss CD
5 Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 Japanese CD
6 Haydn Symphony #84 CD
7 Prokofiev Symphony #5 CD
8 Sleeping Beauty Japanese CD
9 Schumann Symphony #1 Japanese CD
10 Beethoven Symphony #1 1956 Recording Open Reel
11 Sibelius 2 Japanese CD
I am not mad about you questioning my background. I know that what I said
about Lenny is radical. But that is what makes this newsgroup great. Where
else could anyone say that Beethoven is third rate(not me but it has been
said here)
Can I assume that we have soemthing in common? I am a landsman. And
opinionation is part of our genes and upbringing. Zubin Mehta(Who makes
Lenny look like all 5 of my favorites rolled into one) said that he likes to
conduct in Israel because when there are 5 Jews there are 5 different
opinions.
Here is something else we have in common. Starting in September I am also a
journalist. Here is an excerpt from my first engineering column in the
Saxophone Journal(a question and answer column, like Dear Abby)
"I would like to state something about my column succinctly, from the
outset. There is an Internet acronym IMHO (In My Humble Opinion). I will
have none of that as those who know me can attest. All statements by me will
be IMOO (In My Opinionated Opinion). In glorious black and white. If you
want Shades of Gray, you better get your scratched lp copy of the Monkees
Headquarters out of storage(written by Barry Mann/Cynthia Weil 1966). "
I am writing this column because I am the top engineer in the business.
Manufacturing and Design. I have two patents for Saxophone mouthpieces , an
instrument I do not and have never played. I am a French Hornist. The
mouthpiece I play is of my design. With my former partner we created the
high end of the Saxophone Mouthpiece industry by combining my knowledge of
wind playing and sound and my partners peerless hand finishing.We also
introduced CNC to the music industry but that is not relevant here.
So I am an established expert on sustained tone, sound etc. That is why I
listen to Ansermet. I have learned more from Ansermet's Gran Partita
recording than anything else except for working closely with Michael
Brecker.
And for orchestral sound, architecture etc, Lenny can't shine the shoes of
the conductors I mentioned above. Why he excells in Mahler is something
that I have been pondering for years. Is it a Jewish thing only, or is it
something else. It must also be an ego thing as Lenny's ego is famous. Not
like Stokys but it surely effects his conducting.
Stoky was a great sound expert as well. If he served music instead of
himself he would make my list. But his recordings always have something of
value. The three greatest Gran Partita's I have heard are
1)Ansermet-by a large margin
2) A Robert Johnson-Chamber's Assistant
3)Stoky
Protecting the conductors you love is quite admirable. Frankly, and I have
stated it before, I coudn't care less if I am the only one who listens to
Ansermet. And I don't care about the bashing either. I make it a policy to
share what I think is sublime with my friends. And I expect them to do the
same with me. And I am not closed minded at all. I listen to all types of
music except rap. The only value I see in rap is that it allows people who
yesterday were squegee guys to become millionaires tommorow.
My opinions are always based on study and expertise. I do not blow
Winchester Cathedral out my tuchus. I am not known for that in my industry
and I hope that I am not known for that here.
Are you sure you are not releated to Bernard Hurwitz? If we go to your house
and we find only mono versions of stereo releases we will know that it is
true :-)
Best Wishes
Jeffrey "Abbedd" Powell
"David Hurwitz" <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:69225991.0...@drn.newsguy.com...
Ansermetniac
Oxymoron
Military intelligence
Gourmet Chinese food
Gourmet Mexican food
Part time French Hornist
Jumbo Shrimp
Abbedd
"Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bfu4i...@drn.newsguy.com...
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
> Lenny's romantic period recordngs make me nervous. The lp sound from
> Columbia did not help but he approved those multimiked disasters
> recorded in bad halls. Or were they recorded in the subway.
Some of them were made in a hotel ballroom, I believe. And if any were
made at Carnegie Hall, there were times you could hear the subway.
David Hurwitz
>Are you sure you are not releated to Bernard Hurwitz? If we go to your house
>and we find only mono versions of stereo releases we will know that it is
>true :-)
>
>Best Wishes
>
>Jeffrey "Abbedd" Powell
>
No relation; I like stereo! Thanks for your very detailed and thoughtful reply.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who will find it very enlightening to know "why"
you say what you do, as opposed to simply seeing a series of categorical,
unqualified statements. Good luck with your journalistic career!
Best regards,
Dave Hurwitz
Ansermetniac
untamable echo.
I just wonder, did Columbia use the multike system everywhere or just for
Lenny. How about Szell?
Decca proved the three mic system is more musical. But who sold more
records?
There is a joke that no one in the world could record in 1962 because all
the mics in the world were in Symphony Hall. Leinsdorf BSO, RCA???
Give me the Decca tree anyday!! And the Ansermet mono stuff that has shown
up on CD( a 10 disc jap set oop) is very far ahead of its time
Abbedd
"Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)" <oy兀earthlink.net>
wrote in message news:Xns93C49BDECF4...@129.250.170.100...
Norman Schwartz
"Ansermetniac" <anserm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:YzBUa.173768>
> recording than anything else except for working closely with Michael
> Brecker.
>
> And for orchestral sound, architecture etc, Lenny can't shine the shoes of
> Why he excells in Mahler is something
> that I have been pondering for years. Is it a Jewish thing only, or is it
> something else. It must also be an ego thing as Lenny's ego is famous.
This "Jewish thing only" notion, as absurd as it is, comes out of the mouth
of Lenny himself.
What do you suppose this Jewish thing derives from, e.g., genes, culture,
diet or a moon based calendar?
Bob Lombard
<nm...@optonline.com> wrote:
>This "Jewish thing only" notion, as absurd as it is, comes out of the mouth
>of Lenny himself.
>What do you suppose this Jewish thing derives from, e.g., genes, culture,
>diet or a moon based calendar?
>
It's the "Jewish thing" only peripherally. Unleavened bread is the
secret connection; Mexicans do good Mahler.
bl
Larry Eckerling
wrote on 7/26/03 11:35 AM:
I just dont understand why it is no longer fashionable to like Bernstein,
nor why anyone needs to apologize for likeing a great artist. Its
absolutely true that you get diassapointed, and then you get blown away. I
think it's true for most risk-takers in the arts. Bernstein is hardly the
only one that took risks and sometimes failed, often blows you away, and
ALWAYS makes you think!
Larry Eckerling
Richard Schultz
: It's the "Jewish thing" only peripherally. Unleavened bread is the
: secret connection; Mexicans do good Mahler.
That may be the cover story, but we in the IJC know that it's really
the secret decoder ring.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:iig7iv8rasptqq86n...@4ax.com:
I think tortillas take longer than 18 minutes. (Oh, sheesh, this could
turn into another discussion of timings in "Bolero" or the Adagietto!)
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Yes, In the ballroom of the Manhattan Center which is known for its
>untamable echo.
But he also recorded in an actual hotel (Manhattan Center wasn't a *hotel* was
it?), the George (?) in Brooklyn.
Simon
Soun Tran
> bucks. Buck buck buck buck...
He recorded all those Haydn masses but what a shame *no* Mozart opera.
What would a berstein DOn Giovanni,Figaro,Cosi or Zauberflote have
sounded like...?
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:bg0po...@drn.newsguy.com:
That's the one I was really thinking of!
MarkZimmerman
>>of Lenny himself.
>>What do you suppose this Jewish thing derives from, e.g., genes, culture,
>>diet or a moon based calendar?
>>
lunar calendar. Lenny must've obviously recordid things at the full moon when
he was in a howling mood. And, you wonder they always had to replace the first
violin the day after the full moon. Obviously Lenny had feasted the night
before! :)
Best,
Mark Allen Zimmerman * Chicago