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Carlos Kleiber on Fricsay
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Mr. Mike
Nov 19, 2012, 5:46:16 PM11/19/12
to
Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
loathe him! The only part I enjoyed was when his left cuff (xtra long)
got stuck up the sleeve of his monkey-suit. (Do watch that bit again!
Jerry Lewis, eat your heart out!) Some conductors used to scare the
shit out of orchestras. Fricsay bored the shit into them,
additionally. And look at that chain! Look at the "Legion d'horreur"
in his lapel! What a-prick! Oh yes, and he murders Dukas; with relish.
entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
loathe him! The only part I enjoyed was when his left cuff (xtra long)
got stuck up the sleeve of his monkey-suit. (Do watch that bit again!
Jerry Lewis, eat your heart out!) Some conductors used to scare the
shit out of orchestras. Fricsay bored the shit into them,
additionally. And look at that chain! Look at the "Legion d'horreur"
in his lapel! What a-prick! Oh yes, and he murders Dukas; with relish.
Bob Harper
Nov 19, 2012, 6:13:02 PM11/19/12
to
judge of other conductors, at least in this instance.
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
Nov 20, 2012, 2:16:35 AM11/20/12
to
Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:22zqs.7146$OJ2.3243@en-nntp-
11.dc1.easynews.com:
What you say about Kleiber-sohn, I would also say about Beecham.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
letters to be typed in news:22zqs.7146$OJ2.3243@en-nntp-
11.dc1.easynews.com:
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.
ec38...@gmail.com
Nov 20, 2012, 3:29:46 AM11/20/12
to
Alex.-
Dontait...@aol.com
Nov 20, 2012, 4:57:03 PM11/20/12
to
just human. Not all were like Leopold Stokowski, who would not
participate in or tolerate any comment against any of his colleagues.
Witness his reaction against the "beat me Dimitri" kids' song in
Minneapolis about Mitropoulos when Stokowski arrived as a guest
conductor in 1940/41 or so: Stoki was furious and denounced the song.
But Carlos Kleiber: evidently human. Like the above story. I heard
about the time Leonard Bernstein came to Chicago guest-conducting an
orchestra in the 1970s or '80s and tumbled off the podium in Orchestra
Hall after a Brahms symphony. Not hurt, apparently. But Kleiber is
supposed to have said, when told about it, "Brahms pushed him."
Don Tait
M forever
Nov 20, 2012, 5:23:10 PM11/20/12
to
On Nov 20, 4:57 pm, "Dontaitchic...@aol.com" <Dontaitchic...@aol.com>
wrote:
Apparently that happened in 1984 after a concert in which Bernstein
and the Wiener Philharmoniker played Brahms 2.
wrote:
and the Wiener Philharmoniker played Brahms 2.
RG
Nov 20, 2012, 9:50:00 PM11/20/12
to
In article <phdla85v5qgovk8o7...@4ax.com>, m...@spamcop.net
says...
I like a lot of Fricsay's work, but am amazed at how it's possible to do
Magic Flute without a scintilla of charm.
says...
Magic Flute without a scintilla of charm.
M forever
Nov 21, 2012, 11:34:53 AM11/21/12
to
On Nov 20, 9:50 pm, RG <jgeiss...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <phdla85v5qgovk8o7h9s073f2og86o2...@4ax.com>, m...@spamcop.net
What does that mean? Can you give examples for where you hear this
missing in this recording?
> In article <phdla85v5qgovk8o7h9s073f2og86o2...@4ax.com>, m...@spamcop.net
missing in this recording?
David Royko
Nov 21, 2012, 4:42:30 PM11/21/12
to
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:57:03 PM UTC-6, Dontait...@aol.com wrote:
> I heard
> about the time Leonard Bernstein came to Chicago guest-conducting an
> orchestra in the 1970s or '80s and tumbled off the podium in Orchestra
> Hall after a Brahms symphony. Not hurt, apparently. But Kleiber is
> supposed to have said, when told about it, "Brahms pushed him."
Don, I might've been among those you'd heard from about it. It was in the early/mid '80s, and I think it was the concert that ended with Brahms 2 (a few years later, he was back in town with the VPO doing the Sibelius 5, which I loved, slow as it was at points, and he didn't fall afterwards). I was in the first row of the lower balcony for that concert, which had been terrific until he took his tumble, which was truly frightening. He was excited, rushing to this first-chair and that first-chair, shaking hands, hugging, when all of a sudden, after taking another bow from the podium ans starting to step off, BOOM, he hits the floor flat on his front. The audience, which had been standing and loudly applauding and cheering, was instantly, absolutely, hold-your-breath silent. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wondered if he had just dropped dead, which is how it looked, as he lied motionless for a second or so. He was helped up by musicians, soon sitting on the conductor's podium, holding his chest, looking pained, which was also scary to see, before being helped up and giving a sort-of wave to the audience, which applauded somewhat gently (probably in relief that he was at least on two legs) as he was helped off the stage. By the time I got home, the news was being reported that he was fine, had simply tripped, and his chest hurt because of a medallion (possibly from Koussevitsky, I seem to recall) that he wore under his shirt, and had bruised his chest when he landed on it. So, just another Lenny adventure.
> I heard
> about the time Leonard Bernstein came to Chicago guest-conducting an
> orchestra in the 1970s or '80s and tumbled off the podium in Orchestra
> Hall after a Brahms symphony. Not hurt, apparently. But Kleiber is
> supposed to have said, when told about it, "Brahms pushed him."
Dave Royko
http://www.davidroyko.com is Dave Royko's site for info about:
The book, Royko In Love: Mike's Letters to Carol (UofCPress);
The book, Voices of Children of Divorce (St. Martin's Press);
Music reviews & features (Chgo Trib, etc.); Ben stories (Autism);
CSO "From The Archives" index; Music Ramblings; and plenty of Etc.
Dontait...@aol.com
Nov 21, 2012, 5:57:09 PM11/21/12
to
On Nov 21, 3:42 pm, David Royko <davidro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:57:03 PM UTC-6, Dontait...@aol.com wrote:
> > I heard
> > about the time Leonard Bernstein came to Chicago guest-conducting an
> > orchestra in the 1970s or '80s and tumbled off the podium in Orchestra
> > Hall after a Brahms symphony. Not hurt, apparently. But Kleiber is
> > supposed to have said, when told about it, "Brahms pushed him."
>
> Don, I might've been among those you'd heard from about it. It was in the early/mid '80s, and I think it was the concert that ended with Brahms 2 (a few years later, he was back in town with the VPO doing the Sibelius 5, which I loved, slow as it was at points, and he didn't fall afterwards). I was in the first row of the lower balcony for that concert, which had been terrific until he took his tumble, which was truly frightening. He was excited, rushing to this first-chair and that first-chair, shaking hands, hugging, when all of a sudden, after taking another bow from the podium ans starting to step off, BOOM, he hits the floor flat on his front. The audience, which had been standing and loudly applauding and cheering, was instantly, absolutely, hold-your-breath silent. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wondered if he had just dropped dead, which is how it looked, as he lied motionless for a second or so. He was helped up by musicians, soon sitting on the conductor's podium, holding his chest, looking pained, which was also scary to see, before being helped up and giving a sort-of wave to the audience, which applauded somewhat gently (probably in relief that he was at least on two legs) as he was helped off the stage. By the time I got home, the news was being reported that he was fine, had simply tripped, and his chest hurt because of a medallion (possibly from Koussevitsky, I seem to recall) that he wore under his shirt, and had bruised his chest when he landed on it. So, just another Lenny adventure.
>
> Dave Roykohttp://www.davidroyko.comis Dave Royko's site for info about:
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:57:03 PM UTC-6, Dontait...@aol.com wrote:
> > I heard
> > about the time Leonard Bernstein came to Chicago guest-conducting an
> > orchestra in the 1970s or '80s and tumbled off the podium in Orchestra
> > Hall after a Brahms symphony. Not hurt, apparently. But Kleiber is
> > supposed to have said, when told about it, "Brahms pushed him."
>
> Don, I might've been among those you'd heard from about it. It was in the early/mid '80s, and I think it was the concert that ended with Brahms 2 (a few years later, he was back in town with the VPO doing the Sibelius 5, which I loved, slow as it was at points, and he didn't fall afterwards). I was in the first row of the lower balcony for that concert, which had been terrific until he took his tumble, which was truly frightening. He was excited, rushing to this first-chair and that first-chair, shaking hands, hugging, when all of a sudden, after taking another bow from the podium ans starting to step off, BOOM, he hits the floor flat on his front. The audience, which had been standing and loudly applauding and cheering, was instantly, absolutely, hold-your-breath silent. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wondered if he had just dropped dead, which is how it looked, as he lied motionless for a second or so. He was helped up by musicians, soon sitting on the conductor's podium, holding his chest, looking pained, which was also scary to see, before being helped up and giving a sort-of wave to the audience, which applauded somewhat gently (probably in relief that he was at least on two legs) as he was helped off the stage. By the time I got home, the news was being reported that he was fine, had simply tripped, and his chest hurt because of a medallion (possibly from Koussevitsky, I seem to recall) that he wore under his shirt, and had bruised his chest when he landed on it. So, just another Lenny adventure.
>
> The book, Royko In Love: Mike's Letters to Carol (UofCPress);
> The book, Voices of Children of Divorce (St. Martin's Press);
> Music reviews & features (Chgo Trib, etc.); Ben stories (Autism);
> CSO "From The Archives" index; Music Ramblings; and plenty of Etc.
Thanks, Dave.
> The book, Voices of Children of Divorce (St. Martin's Press);
> Music reviews & features (Chgo Trib, etc.); Ben stories (Autism);
> CSO "From The Archives" index; Music Ramblings; and plenty of Etc.
Don
M forever
Nov 21, 2012, 6:02:57 PM11/21/12
to
Kleiber weren't all that far apart.
Mark S
Nov 21, 2012, 7:40:26 PM11/21/12
to
I would guess that most of us here really respect and enjoy Kleiber, Fricsay and Bernstein as conductors. So to hear Kleiber bashing two of these off-limits-to-criticism musicians is a bit of a shock.
The immediate reactions seems to be to offer an apology for Kleiber that allows us to still admire all three men. Wouldn't it be more interesting to ask if maybe Kleiber didn't have a point with Fricsay? Or even with Bernstein?
It seems to me that there are numerous ways to take his remarks:
1. Kleiber had a valid point about Fricsay and Bernstein, which is ???
2. Kleiber was being a provocateur. Naughty Carlos.
3. Kleiber was displaying a bad sense of humor
4. Kleiber was being a self-centered prick who was threatened by the greatness of others
Instead, we seem to be in agreement that while Kleiber was a great conductor himself, he was a bad judge of the talent of others...which lets Kleiber off the hook in a no-harm, no-foul way, while not bothering to contemplate what it was about Fricsay that Kleiber could have so loathed.
M forever
Nov 21, 2012, 8:06:22 PM11/21/12
to
think.
Mark S
Nov 21, 2012, 8:46:37 PM11/21/12
to
Oscar
Nov 21, 2012, 10:58:56 PM11/21/12
to
On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:46:37 PM, Mark S wrote:
>
> I'm thinking that a musician of Kleiber's caliber wouldn't
> say something like that about Fricsay unless he really
> believed it. It certainly makes me want to see if I can
> hear what he's talking about, though it would certainly
> be helpful if Kleiber's comments were a bit more musically
> specific than the excerpt offered above.
You should read the book.
>
> I'm thinking that a musician of Kleiber's caliber wouldn't
> say something like that about Fricsay unless he really
> believed it. It certainly makes me want to see if I can
> hear what he's talking about, though it would certainly
> be helpful if Kleiber's comments were a bit more musically
> specific than the excerpt offered above.
In the same letter quoted by the OP, Kleiber had this to say about Pierre Boulez and Hans Knappertsbusch. All three of these critiques were all in response to a tape forwarded by the author, Charles Barber, of different performances:
'...as with all of [Kleiber's] quick replies it was written in hand, with numerous underlines and marginalia.'
July 21, 1993
Hi!
(After consuming tape #15 :))
1) BOULEZ. I tried to anagramaticize 'I COIN VARESE' into 'VARICOSE VEIN' but found there was a 'V' de trop. God! What a crashing [sffz on 'crashing'] bore! Stalwart Boulez's poker face implies that the silly noise neither surprises nor bothers him. Determined professionalism. It's a job, you see...
2) Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I loathe him! The only part I enjoyed was when his left cuff (x tra long) got stuck up the sleeve of his monkey-suit. (Do watch that bit again! Jerry Lewis, eat your heart out!) Some conductors used to scare the shit out of orchestras. Fricsay bored the shit into them, additionally. And look at that chain! Look at the "Legion d'horreur" in his lapel! What a-prick! Oh yes, and he murders Dukas; with relish.
• Knappertsbusch: if you can overlook the 'Großes Verdienstkreuz' around his neck, the meticulously cute hairdo, the disinterestedly twitching baton and the fact that the band is playing lousily, why then...it's OK, I guess.
What, my son, do we learn from these 3 guys on Tape #15? Speak up, don't mumble! What? That's right: They know exactly who the hell they think they are! Bravo!
Molti saluti from (care canem) Carlo who won't bite the hand that feeds him tapes, tho'! Never!
Mr. Mike
Nov 22, 2012, 8:00:56 AM11/22/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:58:56 -0800 (PST), Oscar
<oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>1) BOULEZ. I tried to anagramaticize 'I COIN VARESE' into 'VARICOSE VEIN' but found there was a 'V' de trop. God! What a crashing [sffz on 'crashing'] bore! Stalwart Boulez's poker face implies that the silly noise neither surprises nor bothers him. Determined professionalism. It's a job, you see...
Kleiber had this to say about Boulez in his letter from September 19,
<oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>1) BOULEZ. I tried to anagramaticize 'I COIN VARESE' into 'VARICOSE VEIN' but found there was a 'V' de trop. God! What a crashing [sffz on 'crashing'] bore! Stalwart Boulez's poker face implies that the silly noise neither surprises nor bothers him. Determined professionalism. It's a job, you see...
1992:
"Nowadays I recommend only Boulez and (this only works when the
orchestra can take over genially), Sandor Vegh. Those are the ones to
look at if you get a chance.
Mr. Mike
Nov 22, 2012, 8:07:05 AM11/22/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 16:40:26 -0800 (PST), Mark S
<markst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>3. Kleiber was displaying a bad sense of humor
From letter of May 3, 1993:
<markst...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>3. Kleiber was displaying a bad sense of humor
Let's all go to hell, shall we? Taking along lotsa colleagues and
eminent shits. Like Injuns, the only good conductors are ... yes ...
And even of those stiffs only 2 or 3 are good ones. Hey, did you know
this disgusting "joke"?: "Who killed the most Indians"?
Answer is under this sticker [sticker when lifted revealed "Union
Carbide"].
John Wiser
Nov 22, 2012, 11:39:20 AM11/22/12
to
"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2nsrs.890204$Xo4.6...@en-nntp-13.dc1.easynews.com...
> This sounds more like clinical depression than a bad sense of humor.
>
You are patently not qualified to judge.
jdw
news:2nsrs.890204$Xo4.6...@en-nntp-13.dc1.easynews.com...
>
You are patently not qualified to judge.
jdw
M forever
Nov 22, 2012, 1:06:08 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 21, 10:58 pm, Oscar <oscaredwardwilliam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:46:37 PM, Mark S wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking that a musician of Kleiber's caliber wouldn't
> > say something like that about Fricsay unless he really
> > believed it. It certainly makes me want to see if I can
> > hear what he's talking about, though it would certainly
> > be helpful if Kleiber's comments were a bit more musically
> > specific than the excerpt offered above.
>
> You should read the book.
>
I am not interested in reading that book. Kleiber was an intensely
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:46:37 PM, Mark S wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking that a musician of Kleiber's caliber wouldn't
> > say something like that about Fricsay unless he really
> > believed it. It certainly makes me want to see if I can
> > hear what he's talking about, though it would certainly
> > be helpful if Kleiber's comments were a bit more musically
> > specific than the excerpt offered above.
>
> You should read the book.
>
private person who didn't even give interviews. I think he would have
been absolutely horrified to see that this guy published this private
correspondence.
He was a very interesting figure, and I am very interested in how his
career unfolded and the background behind the all too few famous
recordings he made, his relationship with the orchestras he worked
with, but not really his private correspondence. That's why I am
currently reading Alexander Werner's extremely well researched Kleiber
biography which traces his career in great detail with a lot of
comments from people who played, sang, worked with Kleiber. There is a
lot of interesting stuff in there. For instance, I had heard that he
somehow canceled a recording of Beethoven's 5th concerto with ABM at
short notice. What I didn't know is that Kleiber and ABM were already
*in the studio* with the RSO (now DSO Berlin) - ABM didn't want to
work with the BP ("too arrogant") and already rehearsing and doing
test takes when they clashed and Kleiber walked out. Apparently it was
just s much ABM's fault as Kleiber's though. The two were just too
stubborn to work together, even though they had actually performed
this concerto in a live concert in Hamburg.
Message has been deleted
Herman
Oct 11, 2013, 3:31:31 PM10/11/13
to
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 12:02:57 AM UTC+1, M forever wrote:
>
>
> I am a little surprised by this because stylistically, Fricsay and
>
> Kleiber weren't all that far apart.
which is why, obviously
>
>
> I am a little surprised by this because stylistically, Fricsay and
>
> Kleiber weren't all that far apart.
Paul
Oct 13, 2013, 10:33:57 AM10/13/13
to
Just as a technical matter, I dont think it is possible to bore the shit out of someone. Quite the opposite, in fact.
John Wiser
Oct 13, 2013, 4:37:27 PM10/13/13
to
"Paul" <geod...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:88fcb6b9-67ec-4ce5...@googlegroups.com...
but it obeys the law of Physick.
jdw
news:88fcb6b9-67ec-4ce5...@googlegroups.com...
> Just as a technical matter, I dont think it is possible to bore the shit out of someone. Quite
> the opposite, in fact.
>
This is merely a figure of speech,
> the opposite, in fact.
>
but it obeys the law of Physick.
jdw
Bob Lombard
Oct 13, 2013, 4:48:53 PM10/13/13
to
bl
Bob Harper
Oct 13, 2013, 11:48:30 PM10/13/13
to
Bob Harper
Ward Hardman
Oct 25, 2013, 7:59:38 AM10/25/13
to
On Monday, November 19, 2012 2:44:51 PM UTC-8, Mr. Mike wrote:
> Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
>
> entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
>
>
> Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
> loathe him! [snip]
>
> entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
>
>
> Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
He's not the only conductor who had bad judgement. Here's a quote from the next-to-last page of Robert Charles Marsh's "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" (1962):
'Dmitri Mitropoulos recalled that the first time he went
to visit Toscanini he begged him to play a Mahler
symphony, the Fourth perhaps. Toscanini flared up and
told him "The music of Mahler is fit only to be used as
toilet paper!" '
Marsh mentions also Toscanini's reaction, in his last years, when he found the score of Shostakovich's 7th symphony on the shelves of his music room: after perusing the music, and being assured by his son Walter that he had indeed memorized all that music and given the American premiere in 1942, he exclaimed "I was a fool!"
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I crave and admire competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
M forever
Oct 25, 2013, 7:38:10 PM10/25/13
to
On Friday, October 25, 2013 7:59:38 AM UTC-4, Ward Hardman wrote:
> On Monday, November 19, 2012 2:44:51 PM UTC-8, Mr. Mike wrote:
>
> > Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
>
> >
>
> > entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> >
>
> > in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
> >
>
> > loathe him! [snip]
>
>
>
> He's not the only conductor who had bad judgement. Here's a quote from the next-to-last page of Robert Charles Marsh's "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" (1962):
>
>
>
> 'Dmitri Mitropoulos recalled that the first time he went
>
> to visit Toscanini he begged him to play a Mahler
>
> symphony, the Fourth perhaps. Toscanini flared up and
>
> told him "The music of Mahler is fit only to be used as
>
> toilet paper!" '
>
>
>
> Marsh mentions also Toscanini's reaction, in his last years, when he found the score of Shostakovich's 7th symphony on the shelves of his music room: after perusing the music, and being assured by his son Walter that he had indeed memorized all that music and given the American premiere in 1942, he exclaimed "I was a fool!"
>
Shostakovich agreed. He found Toscanini's performance of his 7th pretty bad. At least according to the Volkov book, so who knows if that is really true...
> On Monday, November 19, 2012 2:44:51 PM UTC-8, Mr. Mike wrote:
>
> > Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
>
> >
>
> > entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> >
>
> > in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
> >
>
> > loathe him! [snip]
>
>
>
> He's not the only conductor who had bad judgement. Here's a quote from the next-to-last page of Robert Charles Marsh's "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting" (1962):
>
>
>
> 'Dmitri Mitropoulos recalled that the first time he went
>
> to visit Toscanini he begged him to play a Mahler
>
> symphony, the Fourth perhaps. Toscanini flared up and
>
> told him "The music of Mahler is fit only to be used as
>
> toilet paper!" '
>
>
>
> Marsh mentions also Toscanini's reaction, in his last years, when he found the score of Shostakovich's 7th symphony on the shelves of his music room: after perusing the music, and being assured by his son Walter that he had indeed memorized all that music and given the American premiere in 1942, he exclaimed "I was a fool!"
>
td
Oct 26, 2013, 6:00:01 AM10/26/13
to
On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 2:16:36 AM UTC-5, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
>
> letters to be typed in news:22zqs.7146$OJ2.3243@en-nntp-
>
> 11.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>
>
> > On 11/19/12 2:46 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
>
> >> Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
>
> >> entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> >> in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
> >>
>
> >> Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
> >> loathe him! The only part I enjoyed was when his left cuff (xtra long)
>
> >> got stuck up the sleeve of his monkey-suit. (Do watch that bit again!
>
> >> Jerry Lewis, eat your heart out!) Some conductors used to scare the shit
>
> >> out of orchestras. Fricsay bored the shit into them, additionally. And
>
> >> look at that chain! Look at the "Legion d'horreur" in his lapel! What
>
> >> a-prick! Oh yes, and he murders Dukas; with relish.
>
> >>
>
> > All I can say is that Carlos Kleiber was a great conductor, but a poor
>
> > judge of other conductors, at least in this instance.
>
> >
>
> > Bob Harper
>
>
>
> What you say about Kleiber-sohn, I would also say about Beecham.
Hmmmmm.
> Bob Harper <bob.h...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
>
> letters to be typed in news:22zqs.7146$OJ2.3243@en-nntp-
>
> 11.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>
>
> > On 11/19/12 2:46 PM, Mr. Mike wrote:
>
> >> Comments made after Kleiber watched a video of Fricsay conducting
>
> >> entitled "Ein Ungar in Berlin - Zum Gedenken an den Dirigente", quoted
>
> >> in "Corresponding with Carlos," p.218.
>
> >>
>
> >> Fricsay. I never liked this guy nor his music-making. But now ... I
>
> >> loathe him! The only part I enjoyed was when his left cuff (xtra long)
>
> >> got stuck up the sleeve of his monkey-suit. (Do watch that bit again!
>
> >> Jerry Lewis, eat your heart out!) Some conductors used to scare the shit
>
> >> out of orchestras. Fricsay bored the shit into them, additionally. And
>
> >> look at that chain! Look at the "Legion d'horreur" in his lapel! What
>
> >> a-prick! Oh yes, and he murders Dukas; with relish.
>
> >>
>
> > All I can say is that Carlos Kleiber was a great conductor, but a poor
>
> > judge of other conductors, at least in this instance.
>
> >
>
> > Bob Harper
>
>
>
> What you say about Kleiber-sohn, I would also say about Beecham.
When Beecham was introduced to Herbert von Karajan in the corridors of Abbey Road he was reported to have said: "Nice to meet you, Mr. Karajan. Tell me, what do you do?"
TD
td
Oct 26, 2013, 6:08:41 AM10/26/13
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TD
Bob Harper
Nov 21, 2012, 7:34:41 PM11/21/12
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Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Nov 22, 2012, 11:26:38 AM11/22/12
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On 11/22/12 5:07 AM, Mr. Mike wrote:
This sounds more like clinical depression than a bad sense of humor.
Bob Harper
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