Best "masked ball" recording?
Alex
I'm revisiting my past and want to get the "best" recording possible of
"Masked ball" of Verdi. Any takers? My preferences are ;
- Oscar : as pure as possible, more female in character than male
(hehe)
- Live performance
- The whole piece, not just highlights
- As little voice-wobble as possible (rules out a few fat ladies, I
know)
- Possibly the original Sweden version, not the updated Boston
version.
Thanks,
Alex
Simon Roberts
Try the c.1975 Covent Garden DVD with Ricciarelli and Domingo cond. Abbado,
which meets most of your criteria. If you do Netflix, you can rent it from them
before buying and see if you like it (perhaps other DVD rental outfits have it
too).
Simon
jrs...@aol.com
Dang. I was going to recommend one of the fat ladies.
You seem to have specific tastes. Which recordings do you suspect will
be contenders for you? Can you entertain the possibility of the
Callas/de Stefano with Gavazzeni conducting? Have you tried
Price/Bergonzi with Leinsdorf? Is Milanov tolerable to you--her
performance with Bjorling conducted by Panizza is certainly special,
maybe less special with Tucker conducted by Mitropoulos (but the others
are worth a listen)?
I happen to like Gigli in this as well, but I somehow doubt you will
want him or with Caniglia (Serafin, EMI).
My very favorite, however, may be the Fritz Busch-led performance with
Fehenberger and Modl. Sung in German of course, but not matter. It is
great Verdi.
Oops. I think all of those are Boston (including the one with the
Swedish tenor)....
--Jeff
Mitchell Kaufman
> - Oscar : as pure as possible, more female in character than male
> (hehe)
> - Live performance
> - The whole piece, not just highlights
> - As little voice-wobble as possible (rules out a few fat ladies, I
> know)
> - Possibly the original Sweden version, not the updated Boston
> version.
My choice would be the '57 Scala performance with Callas, di Stefano,
Simionato, and Bastianini (not to be confused with the studio recording
with Gobbi). Everybody is truly inspired, and Callas is in great voice
for the date.
There's also a studio recording with much of the frisson of a great live
performance: Gigli, Caniglia, Barbieri, and Bechi, recorded in 1943.
Caniglia tends to be a bit wide of the mark pitchwise, but otherwise
it's a tremendously exciting performance, with terrific conducting by
Serafin before he became ossified.
Finally, and a shade below those two, would be the 1940 Met performance
with Milanov, Björling, Castagna, and Sved, conducted by Panizza.
Unfortunately, Björling's last-act aria is omitted, but that having been
said, it's a fine performance. You'll need to order this one from the
U.K., however, unless you can pick up used LP's of the official Met
release. Those have a nice libretto and booklet, FWIW.
MK
Andrew T. Kay
If the only BALLOs I had were these three, I could get by.
(1) Domingo, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Grist, Cossotto; Muti/EMI: This edges
out the Leinsdorf/RCA (which also has Grist, one of the great Oscars)
by some distance as my favorite of the studio-made sets. The fact that
it *is* a studio set may rule it out for you, but it is a taut
performance, smartly paced and brilliantly executed (if a little
"sober" as BALLOs go), with a great deal of outstanding vocalism.
(2) Di Stefano, Callas, Bastianini, Ratti, Simionato; Gavazzeni/EMI: A
buoyant and high-spirited live performance in better-than-acceptable
sound; this is as much fun as you're likely to have listening to this
opera, even though di Stefano is in dryish voice and Ratti isn't in the
front rank of Oscars. The others are exceptionally good, and this is
superior to the comparatively limp Callas studio set.
(3) Domingo, Ricciarelli, Cappuccilli, Grist, Bainbridge; Abbado/Kultur
DVD. This is closely contemporaneous with (1) above and has some of the
same principals (there is a weaker, "house mezzo" Ulrica). It actually
may come closer than the two above to giving you everything you want --
a feminine Oscar, no wobbling, Swedish setting, uncut, live -- if
you're open to DVD. Abbado's conducting emphasizes warmth and geniality
whereas Muti's is longer on drive and brilliance. This began as a
television broadcast 30 years ago, and the technical credits are less
than state of the art (a soft, slightly faded picture; sparse
subtitles; incomplete singer credits -- it might be of interest to some
to know that Robert Lloyd and Gwynne Howell, both of whom went on to
long and distinguished careers, appear here as the basso plotters, but
you'd never know this from the printed or on-screen info). In general
it is more impressive musically than theatrically; the production is
bare and underdecorated, and only Domingo and Grist really make an
effort in terms of doing more than "standing and delivering" (Grist is
a delightful physical performer).
HTH.
Todd K
Mitchell Kaufman
> If the only BALLOs I had were these three, I could get by.
>
> (1) Domingo, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Grist, Cossotto; Muti/EMI: This edges
> out the Leinsdorf/RCA (which also has Grist, one of the great Oscars)
> by some distance as my favorite of the studio-made sets. The fact that
> it *is* a studio set may rule it out for you, but it is a taut
> performance, smartly paced and brilliantly executed (if a little
> "sober" as BALLOs go), with a great deal of outstanding vocalism.
Your mention of the Price/Leinsdorf recording reminded me of an
excellent live performance available overseas on Myto (MYTO 2 MCD
043.295). It's a Met broadcast from February 1966, their last season in
the old house:
Amelia..................Leontyne Price
Riccardo................Carlo Bergonzi
Renato..................Robert Merrill
Ulrica..................Mignon Dunn
Oscar...................Roberta Peters
Samuel..................John Macurdy
Tom.....................Louis Sgarro
Silvano.................Robert Goodloe
Judge...................Andrea Velis
Servant.................Robert Schmorr
Dance...................Ivan Allen
Dance...................William Burdick
Dance...................Patricia Heyes
Conductor...............Francesco Molinari-Pradelli*
This one *smokes* the contemporaneous studio recording with most of the
same principals (save Verrett rather than Dunn and Grist for
Peters)--the studio recording is "correct," but studio-bound and cold;
the live performance smells of the theater, and Price, Bergonzi, and
Merrill are more involved--Price in particular is in better voice, and
Bergonzi weighs in with what is perhaps the best performance of the part
on records. Molinari-Pradelli, as opposed to Leinsdorf, sounds fully
awake.
This may not surpass certain other Ballos cited in this thread, but it's
a real good one nevertheless.
MK
*Thanks to the Met database for the complete cast listing.
david...@aol.com
Nelli, Peerce, Merrill, Toscanini, NBC SO
There is no "original Swedish version" (despite the recent attempt by a
brilliant and knowledgeable Verdi scholar to reconstitute one from the
sketches). The setting was changed to Boston long before Verdi
completed the opera because of the censors: can't assassinate a king
onstage, only a colonial governor. Many productions quite reasonably
change the governor's name from Riccardo to Gustavo and return the
opera to Sweden without making any other changes.
The Toscanini recording doesn't have the purest possible singing from
its Oscar or its Ulrica, but it's brilliantly conducted by an intensely
involved conductor steeped in the style in one of a tiny handful of his
best surviving and most distinctively shaped Verdi opera performances.
(Some people hate that, of course, and prefer more phlegmatic and soft
edged performances.)
The vastly underrated Herva Nelli is a sensationally intense and
involved Amelia turning in one of the greatest performances by a
singing actress ever captured on a recording. The voice is a bit odd
and some people hate it, but if drama rather than prettiness is the
goal, you might accept her. Her breathless Sprechstimme at one point
in the gallows scene is not to be believed: you'll think she's going
to die of anxiety on the spot. Not even Callas was ever that
convincingly overwrought.
Peerce is another controversial voice, although I always liked his: it
seems to me like an effortlessly produced sunny lyric but others
complain that his production was too nasal. More to the point, Peerce
was a first rate musical intelligence, temperamentally he was ideally
suited to this repertory, and his sense of phrasing was nothing short
of magnificent. Peerce, too, is routinely trashed by people who
couldn't discern the superb musicianship of a supremely musical singer
if it bit them on the ashtray.
Merrill was never a musician or vocal actor on the level of Nelli and
Peerce, but he did possess an authentic rich Verdi baritone sound, and
he is thoroughly involved in the proceedings here. As usual under
Toscanini, he also behaves himself.
I've warned you now. Better go buy something tamer and safer and
slicker and prettier with Karajan and some glamorous "superstars."
Reri Grist is the greatest Oscar I ever heard, and the Leinsdorf
recording with Price, Bergonzi, and Merrill is a standard
recommendation for many people. It's an honest effort, but this is far
from Leinsdorf's best performance of an Italian opera, and he's tepid
indeed as compared to Toscanini. (BTW, I am far from a rabid
Toscanini-olater.)
-david gable
Andrew T. Kay
> I've warned you now. Better go buy something tamer and safer and
> slicker and prettier with Karajan and some glamorous "superstars."
Well, you know, that Toscanini BALLO is something on which you and
Karajan would have agreed. If he were alive and contributing to this
newsgroup, he undoubtedly would have made it *his* top choice too. He
was known to insist that young conductors preparing to conduct Verdi
study it, and considered it the best of all the Toscanini Verdi
recordings, including the OTELLO and FALSTAFF.
Whether anyone could tell this from listening to his own, one and only,
very late BALLO recording is debatable. It's undesirable for a number
of reasons.
> Reri Grist is the greatest Oscar I ever heard, and the Leinsdorf
> recording with Price, Bergonzi, and Merrill is a standard
> recommendation for many people. It's an honest effort, but this is far
> from Leinsdorf's best performance of an Italian opera, and he's tepid
> indeed as compared to Toscanini.
Or as compared to Muti and even Abbado (at Covent Garden, not on the DG
studio recording), both also with Grist. Now, I did first hear the
opera via Leinsdorf/RCA, and it didn't do me any harm as far as that
went, but if this is the standard choice, a lot of people are settling
for stodgy conducting. Bergonzi and Verrett are predictably fine; Grist
is wonderful, but remains just as much so for Muti and Abbado; those
who want Merrill are better off with Toscanini; Price is a rung or two
below best form (that opacity that crept in and out of the middle of
her range, the part of her voice that should be its greatest strength
[and *was*, on good days], is too much in evidence here, and it limits
her expressively -- she sounds too consistently lugubrious).
Todd K
Matt
news:1133062351.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Nelli, Peerce, Merrill, Toscanini, NBC SO
>
I've been been putting off getting this for quite some some time (mainly
because I don't want to pay the inflated second-hand prices for the official
Toscanini Edition). Are the Myto transfers an acceptable alternative, or
should I just bite the bullett and get the real thing (before it becomes
listed as "Rare, OOP" instead of just "OOP" and second-hand prices double
again)?
Regards,
Matt
david...@aol.com
According to my friend and sparring partner Todd K:
>[Karajan] considered [the Ballo] the best of all the Toscanini Verdi recordings, including the OTELLO and FALSTAFF.
I vacillate between thinking the Ballo is the best and thinking Ballo
and Falstaff are tied for first place. Unless I'm allowed to mention
the Te Deum, which is easily on the same exalted level. For the
record, among the Ballo conductors mentioned in this thread, I also
have enormous regard for the young Serafin (although I always have
problems with Miss Caniglia's intonation) and Ettore Panizza.
As for the live Ballo with Molinari-Pradelli leading what is
essentially Leinsdorf's RCA cast, I posted an announcement heralding
its imminent release on Myto on this very newsgroup. Unfortunately,
I've only heard it once, I haven't heard it in years, and I haven't
picked up the Myto yet. I do recall vastly preferring it to the
Leinsdorf recording.
Deepest Ballo discography regret: that there is no Ballo with Callas
and Votto.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
>Domingo, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Grist, Cossotto; Muti/EM
I can't remember if I ever heard this, but the only obvious (to me)
liability is the presence of that yeoman Verdi baritone for all
studios, Cappuccilli. Despite her often equally problematic vocal
production, Arroyo was a more patrician singer than her more famous
rival, Leontyne Price, and Oscarissimo is Oscar. If Domingo is engaged
and Muti is at his most imaginative rather than his most doctrinaire,
this could be fairly decent. The fact that this is early Muti affords
hope.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
role of the Nightingale in Stravinsky's opera of the same name with the
composer conducting. (The opera is contemporaneous with the three
famous ballets.)
-david gable
Richard Loeb
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133113805.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Isn't the Callas EMI studio with Votto???? Richard
david...@aol.com
>Isn't the Callas EMI studio with Votto???? Richard
Si, Riccardo. Certo. Sorry about that. I meant live.
-david gable
Alex
Thanks for all the responses to my question. I feel the need to clarify
a few bits, as propted by Jeff ;
Jeff wrote:
> You seem to have specific tastes. Which recordings do you suspect will
> be contenders for you? Can you entertain the possibility of the
> Callas/de Stefano with Gavazzeni conducting? Have you tried
> Price/Bergonzi with Leinsdorf? Is Milanov tolerable to you--her
> performance with Bjorling conducted by Panizza is certainly special,
> maybe less special with Tucker conducted by Mitropoulos (but the others
> are worth a listen)?
I was driving down the coast this weekend thinking about what I mean
when I talk of vibrato and wobble and so forth. The topic is as old as
opera and singing itself.
All too often there are opera "divas" with a certain sound to the
singing that I was trying to classify, but the closest I came seemed to
be "vibrato in spite of the music". I think I'm allergic to a kind of
singing where the vibrato is automatically on every time the mouth
opens, never to reside into purity when the music probably deserves it,
or overdramatisations, or change of timbre, or mood, or meaning. I
can't stand it, I'm afraid, this constant vibrato as part of song
itself, and I associate this singing with some of the ... ahem, bigger
ladies, which I know is a horribly wrong and unfair statement. (Blame
it on cultural bias)
Anyways, i know that this quality in singing is regarded as some the
very thing (!!) that makes opera opera, and the more vibrato, the
better.
Jeff, as to your questions, I'm afraid I can't give you an answer. I
only really know of Bjorling (because I'm scandinavian too :) which I
love; I come from the dark side of opera, the baroque era, from
Monteverdi to Schutz to Lully to Purcell to Handel. And yes, I'm sure
that speak volumes about my singing preferences too, but truly, I had
an early love affair with bel canto and Verdi, hence my initial
"revisiting my past." Recomend me something that is quality, and I will
see the truth of it. :)
Kind regards,
Alex
Alex
> I've warned you now. Better go buy something tamer and safer and
> slicker and prettier with Karajan and some glamorous "superstars."
No, I want musicality over slickness. I've talked elsewhere in the
thread about coming from a baroque opera world which I admit makes me
somewhat biased towards given styles, but I can recognise quality when
I hear it. If the performance is good, that's what I want. What I
*don't* want is automatic vibrato on every utterence because "that's
what they trained me to do..."
I'm open to any suggestion.
Alex
Alex
David wrote:
> Alex stated his extreme "purist" position
Wow, didn't know I was purist. Heck, didn't even knew there was such a
thing. :) But hey, I think you're misunderstanding me dramatically (!!)
;
> But vibrato is a natural element of singing and should and does occur
> every time singers open their mouths.
I think we can all agree that there are differences in terms of
vibrato. Yes, you can argue that sound itself is vibrato and I wouldn't
disagree with you. We can probably also agree that there is a
difference between a 200-210Hz swing and a 200-400Hz swing. We can say
that the bigger the distance between the top and bottom of swing, the
higher the amount of vibrato. And we don't have to be too nitpicky
about this amount to have a reasonable talk about high and low amount
of vibrato; there is a middle ground in all of opera, and various
singers wobble above or below this median. I prefer middle and below,
other prefer over. Hardly a purist view.
I certainly *am* talking about that enormous wobble that some opera
singers get, some at the end of a career, some all through it. I'm just
stating that I don't like it being big, wobbly and constantly on in
default mode.
> If you think Italian opera singers of the 19th century "resided in
> purity" you're smoking something pretty powerful.
You're pretty good at reading too much into this, my friend. :) I'm
simply stating I prefer the "wobble" to come and go according to the
various moods and states of the music instead of *always* being on,
regardless of what's going on. Hardly a purist view, either.
> I suspect that you will find every sung performance
> in virtually every performance by a lead singer recommended by anybody
> in this thread as riddled with "overdramatization." It does and should
> go with the territory.
I don't have a problem with overdramatizations, otherwise I wouldn't
love opera, which, in fact, I do. Very much. I'm just not a fan of
constant wobble; there is a wobble for each occasion, some heavy, some
light. Wobble doesn't equate drama. And for the record, I love Callas,
but not Caballe. It's just a preference, not a requirement.
Alex
david...@aol.com
Alex, while I'm relieved by your latest post, I was only taking you at
your word. For example, in your very first post you expressed a
preference for as little vibrato as possible. In another post you said
that you didn't like singers whose voice exhibited a vibrato every time
he or she opened his or her mouth. Now you tell me you adore Callas
and prefer her to Caballe. So do I. Nevertheless, it is an objective
fact that Callas had a significantly larger and uncontrollable wobble
throughout most of her career than Caballe ever did.
-david gable
jrs...@aol.com
Thanks for the explanation. The baroque interests say it all, but I'm
afraid you'll never find exactly what you're looking for. I think
you'll hear quality in every one of the performances I mentioned (and I
forgot to mention Caballe/Carreras with one of those great underrated
conductors, Molinari-Pradelli, but you don't like Caballe...), but not
be satisfied, particularly
Get the Callas with Gavazzeni conducting first. At the very least,
you'll have one of her very greatest performances. It oozes musicality
but also drama, but in a sense that any Baroque opera purist would
adore, since the best Baroque opera performance are way off the charts
in terms of color, range, and expression--just like Callas (imagine her
in Rameau!). It sounds like you also ought to get Abbado on DVD and
Toscanini, for other virtues. It's always more interesting to juggle
three Ballo's in the air than just one. I have seven and a "want" list
just as long.
--Jeff
Alex
> In another post you said
> that you didn't like singers whose voice exhibited a vibrato every time
> he or she opened his or her mouth
Well, yes I did say as such, but didn't realise that that meant I
didn't like vibrato full stop. :)
I did try to explain that vibrato that meant something was preferred
over vibrato that was automatically on, regardless of what the music or
drama was doing, but I'm anyways sorry to confuse you guys.
Alex
david...@aol.com
>but I'm anyways sorry to confuse you guys.
Don't worry, Alex. We're easily confused and also contentious.
-david gable
dragon fly
wasn't there a nilsson/solti ballo on the old
london label?
vaguely remember bergonzi/macneil in the
cast----not sure though.
anyone recall
nelson
John Wilson
wrote:
Yes, there was. It was available on CD for about 5 minutes.
John
Simon Roberts
>
>
>
>wasn't there a nilsson/solti ballo on the old
>london label?
Yes, and a later one with Margaret Price and Pavarotti.
Simon
Mark Melson
Bjoerling, but he became indisposed (see John Culshaw's "Putting the
Record Straight" for an account of the indisposition, an account the
Bjoerling family has disputed). Bergonzi was brought in to save the
project.
Mark Melson
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:30:37 -0500, tr2...@webtv.net (dragon fly)
wrote:
>
>
Mitchell Kaufman
> The Nilsson/Solti is the recording that was supposed to feature Jussi
> Bjoerling, but he became indisposed (see John Culshaw's "Putting the
> Record Straight" for an account of the indisposition, an account the
> Bjoerling family has disputed). Bergonzi was brought in to save the
> project.
Same general story with the Toscanini broadcast: Björling was a late
cancellation, and Toscanini supposedly had to plead with Peerce (who
felt slighted at having been passed over in the first place) to step in.
MK
Andrew T. Kay
> The Nilsson/Solti is the recording that was supposed to feature Jussi
> Bjoerling, but he became indisposed (see John Culshaw's "Putting the
> Record Straight" for an account of the indisposition, an account the
> Bjoerling family has disputed). Bergonzi was brought in to save the
> project.
If they were serious about doing that, they should have had someone
else conduct it.
Todd K
Simon Roberts
"Andrew T. Kay" <lastredl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133331249.0...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Not to mention a different Amelia....
Simon