off topic ?? - chinese classical music - "butterfly lovers" violin concerto and "yellow river" piano concerto
www
I don't know if this is an appropriate topic here or not. If not, I
apologize.
Any comment on some of the Chinese classical music pieces, especially
"Butterfly Lovers" ("Leung Chu") Violin Concerto and "Yellow River" ("Hwang
Ho") Piano Concerto?
Regards,
Wong
Xiaowu Sun
here and somewhere else couple of times before, but haven't got much
success. So, just leave it be. I have learned a lot how to respect the
culture differences between the east and the west since came to the U.S. If
they don't get it, they don't get it. That's all. Unfortunately the CD's on
the western market are not the best performances, even though I do like Yin
Chenzhong's play of Yellow River on Marc Polo label. Ms. Nishizaki did have
made some very good recordings on the "Butterfly Lovers" account, four or
five times? But the orchestra play one on Marc Polo one is really a
disappointment. As for other named violinist ( known by the western world I
mean), Chaoliang Lin and Xue Wei both have made recordings but they are
mainly sold in China or Chinatown in the west, where I don't think western
music lovers here would bother to visit, even myself included. Even more
unfortunately, the "Butterfly Lovers" also has been recorded by the one of
the big crossover player we know who. My only wish is this decent violin
concerto, will not be tossed around as just a joke like Miss Mae herself.
Nick Sun
www <w...@interlog.com> wrote in message
news:a8f55.19481$Ip.4...@cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca...
Victor Chen
song-like melodies with some western compositional style. The classic
recording (it's not as if there are many recordings available anyway) is the
Takako Nishizaki recording with the Bratislava Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra
(phew long name, conducted here by Kenneth Jean). Another good one is
performed by the same violinist, but this time with the Shanghai Conservatory
Symphony Orchestra (conducted by Fan Chengwu). The first is on Marco Polo so
it's near full price, while the second is on Naxos. Both are good and
touching, but Naxos may be more preferable if you are on a budget. Get it,
it's beautiful. (The Naxos CD also comes with a few more nice Chinese folk
pieces, if you are interested.)
The Yello River concerto, also available on Naxos, actually kind of
disappoints. Though it is also composed by a Chinese composer (a group of them
actually), it doesn't have the Chinese flavor like the Butterfly Lovers. Also,
it feels more academic and less personal than the Butterfly. A lesser piece,
IMO. I personally don't enjoy it that much, but with it's low price, you can
easily check it out for yourself.
-Victor
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> Any comment on some of the Chinese classical music pieces, especially
> "Butterfly Lovers" ("Leung Chu") Violin Concerto and "Yellow River"
> ("Hwang Ho") Piano Concerto?
I *do* hope that I'm not nearly as culturally-blinkered as was Hector
Berlioz (his remarks about the Chinese musicians who visited Europe are
an embarrassment to read, when one recalls that his own father was the
first Western physician to investigate acupuncture!), but I bought an
RCA recording of the "Yellow River" Concerto with some young American
pianist (can't remember his name) and Ormandy/Philadelphia, and I found
the piece itself to be unrelentingly trite and trivial to my ears. By
comparison, Addinsell's "Warsaw Concerto" comes off like Brahms' 2nd.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
www
Here are some of the websites on "Butterfly Lovers" Violin Concerto and
"Yellow River" Piano Concerto, for those who may be somewhat interested.
Again, I apologize for the intrusion.
A. "Butterfly Lovers" Violin Concerto:
http://www.inkpot.com/classical/butterflylovers.html
http://www.wku.edu/~yuanh/China/love.html
http://china-shops.stores.yahoo.com/china-shops/mu1010039.html (please click
the preview - VERY haunting melody)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000045WN/o/qid=961922981/sr=2-1/103
-1926042-9705464 (please listen to the sample track)
B. "Yellow River" Piano Concerto:
http://www.hnh.com/mcc.htm (please click the sample track to listen to part
of the first movement of "Yellow River" Concerto)
http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/gallery/ormandy/japan.html (I may have
read the webpage wrong - it seems in 1973 when Ormandy was in China, he
conducted the "Yellow River" Concerto, or was he just a guest listening to
the concerto? Warning - it takes a long time to download this webpage)
http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwmus/events/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/music-glance/B00001NTMT/qid=961922766/s
r=1-3/103-1926042-9705464 (please listen to various samples)
Regards,
Wong
================================
William Reilly <WRe...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:39559...@news.nwlink.com...
> "Xiaowu Sun" <Xiao...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:uldJLam3$GA.282@cpmsnbbsa09...
> Well, I get it -- I love the Butterfly Lovers Concerto, and I don't think
> I'm the only Westerner who does, either
Thomas Müthing
> Any comment on some of the Chinese classical music pieces, especially
> "Butterfly Lovers" ("Leung Chu") Violin Concerto and "Yellow River" ("Hwang
> Ho") Piano Concerto?
"The Butterfly Lovers" contains some very nice melodies, in fact it's more a
"medley" from the Beijing opera of the same name than a regular concerto,
though it does contain virtuoso passages. I hear the opening movement rather
often. I've got six recordings, of which I'd say the best is one by Chinese
violinist Sheng Zhong-Guo and the Central Philharmonic Orchestra of China,
conducted by Tang Li-Hua. It was released in Mainland China, so it will be
difficult to locate.
The same is true of a genuinely peculiar CD which contains not one but TWO
recordings of the concerto on the same disc, which is why the disc is called
"Meeting of the The Butterfly Lovers". In both recordings the orchestra is the
BBC Concert Orchestra conducted by Li Jian; in one, the violinist is Takako
Nishizaki, in the other (and to me, better) it is Yu Li-Na. Both
interpretations of the violin part are fine, but you can hear the orchestra
does not know the music. Incidentally, it's not a different violin track
attached on the same orchestral track - it's two different performances.
Takako Nishizaki, the wife of NAXOS owner Klaus Heymann, alone made six
recordings of the piece. In addition to the one above I own the Naxos recording
made with the Shanghai Conservatory Orchestra and conducted by the man who had
lead that same orchestra (different players though) in the premiere
performance. I have heard her other recording with the Slovak Radio Symphony,
which is not a great orchestra and again, unfamiliar with the work.
Crossover darling Vanessa May also recorded the piece a few years ago, and in
London. Although her performance is far from bad, it does not stand comparison
to any of the recordings above. Again, the orchestra does not seem to take the
music seriously. The Butterfly Lovers to me is one of those cases where the
cliche that orchestras from the same country the piece itself comes from do the
better job. They play it all the time.
As much as I love "Butterfly Lovers", I wish I had never bought "The Yellow
River Concerto", which is as horrible a "Tchaikovsky goes China" piece of crap
as you could possibly imagine. The recording I bought was done with Italian
pianist Riccardo Caramella (no joke!) and the Beijing Broadcasting Symphony
Orchestra conducted by Yuan Fang. It was well played, but the music is so
terrible (unbelievably, it was adapted by a group of four from the Yellow River
Cantata!) it makes me cringe every time I dare to listen. If you want to see
for yourself, take the Naxos recording with the Slovak RSO. At least it's
cheap.
The Caramella/Yellow River CD (on Nuova Era) does contain a piece that
justifies its existence: the beautiful orchestral suite "Yunnan Scenes", which
is also derivative of Western technique (as the bulk of Chinese orchestral
music is) but marvellously orchestrated. Too bad that the sound quality on that
one can only be described as "cavernous".
Which tips me on this topic: Where the hell can you buy Chinese orchestral
works on the net (and I don't mean Marco Polo discs). I know China Records, the
national Chinese company, has recorded many, but when I was in Shanghai, I
couldn't find a single one (I could have bought nearly every recording Karajan
made there, but NARY a Chinese work). Note that I'm not talking of folk music
here, of which there is plenty. I mean 20th Century Chinese orchestral music.
Any help??
Thomas
John Carter
about a score of such light concertos and orchestral works on Marco Polo.
They inhabit world that melds traditional themes often with western,
Russian, techniques. While all are easy to listen to ,one is often taken
aback, by for example a perfect gem of impressionism, pages worthy of Rimsky
Korsakov or a passage that recalls Shostakovitch.
I think it is hard for westerners to understand because the music is so
direct and easy to listen to so that we see only the shimmering surface and
we look no deeper.
A good place to start is Chinese Evergreens 8 223916, then GU Guanren,
Spring Suite etc
8 223951
One of my favourites is The Mermaid BalletSuite. 8 223920
Another good violin concerto is "Hung Hu" 8 223902 and the
"Ten Xinjiang Dances for violin and orchestra by Du Mingxin.
8 223903
CHEN Gangs"Wang Zhaojun" Concerto is also a delight 8 223908
DU Mingxin has a nice disc with the Violin Concerto and "The Spirit of
Spring" Piano concerto. 8 223269.
CHEN Peixuns Fantasia on Cantonese Themes" Is very interesting,8 223927
For a traditional instrument, the Pipa "Little Sisters of the Grassland" 8
223924 takes some beating.
In practice "The Yellow River" did Chinese music no good because it is not
very good itself and one wishes they had played any of these other works at
the Nixon concert. instead. It gave quite a wrong impression of Chinese
music and its quality.
John Carter Barsoom
"William Reilly" <WRe...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:39559...@news.nwlink.com...
> "Xiaowu Sun" <Xiao...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:uldJLam3$GA.282@cpmsnbbsa09...
>
> > These are decent music works. I have tried to promote the "butterfly
> lovers"
> > here and somewhere else couple of times before, but haven't got much
> > success. So, just leave it be. I have learned a lot how to respect the
> > culture differences between the east and the west since came to the U.S.
> If
> > they don't get it, they don't get it. That's all.
>
> Well, I get it -- I love the Butterfly Lovers Concerto, and I don't think
> I'm the only Westerner who does, either. If others don't, I don't think
> it's a cultural difference as much as it's due to the BLC sounding very
much
> like what Westerners at least term as "light classical" (or sometimes
"light
> music"). And that's a category that is sometimes rather snobbily looked
> down upon, whether it's composed in the East or the West.
>
>
Thomas Müthing
> I hear the opening movement rather often ...
... listen to ... Oh boy!
Thomas
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> B. "Yellow River" Piano Concerto:
>
> http://www.hnh.com/mcc.htm (please click the sample track to listen to
> part of the first movement of "Yellow River" Concerto)
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/special/gallery/ormandy/japan.html (I may
> have read the webpage wrong - it seems in 1973 when Ormandy was in
> China, he conducted the "Yellow River" Concerto, or was he just a guest
> listening to the concerto? Warning - it takes a long time to download
> this webpage)
> http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwmus/events/
I don't know if Ormandy conducted the "Yellow River" Concerto while in
China, but he certainly recorded it for RCA.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> In practice "The Yellow River" did Chinese music no good because it is
> not very good itself and one wishes they had played any of these other
> works at the Nixon concert. instead. It gave quite a wrong impression
> of Chinese music and its quality.
Well, my theory is that they wanted a piano concerto because Nixon was
known to be a pianist. Reportedly, he would occasionally sit down and
run off Sinding's "Rustle of Spring," having learned it in his youth.
And there is a story from the concert honoring his 1969 inauguration
that his old Quaker aunt pointed down at Van Cliburn and told Nixon, "If
thee had practiced more, thee would be down there instead of up here!"
I think I would have preferred it that way!
Thomas Müthing
> I have learned a lot how to respect the culture differences between the east
> and the west since came to the U.S. If they don't get it, they don't get it.
> That's all.
There is a variety of reasons why Western listeners tend to ignore Chinese
works, like e.g.:
- the fact that many mainstream Chinese orchestral works are written by a group
of people, not a single composer. Traditionally, Westerners think that a piece
of art must be created by a single artist, because it represents his or her
individual expression. A "team effort" will thus be regarded as something
marginal or "worthless". Quite a few Chinese pieces do not even name the
composer(s), a notion unacceptable to most "art lovers" in the West.
- the bulk of Chinese mainstream concert music is influenced by Tchaikovsky,
Rachmaninov and other Russians composer of the 19th or early 20th century. Even
works composed today often qualify as "late romantic", and are thus considered
anachronistic in terms of orthodox Western music teaching (the "you simply can't
compose tonal music at the end of the 20th century" line of thought). The BL
concerto e.g. is in sonata form, somethin that has long been abandoned by
Western composers.
- many Chinese works for Western instruments are based on pentatonic melodies,
which have long been a cliche of Western music that deals with Asian themes
(like Puccini's Madame Butterfly). Thus, many think that the resulting "national
character" of the music is nothing but an imitation of the Western cliches of
yore; something like Ding Shan-De's "Long March Symphony" would thus be
characterized as "folksy". It does not sound too strange for Westerners, but too
"familiar". Avantgarde Asian composers like Isang Yun suffer less.
All of those points may be considered snobbish, but it's the kind of reaction I
usually get when I play a Chinese work like BL to other classical music lovers
who don't know about the historical (or political!) background.
Thomas