Immerseel's Beethoven symphony cycle

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I have the earlier incarnation of this set, which appears to have been reissued. I assume, that is, that it's a reissue of the set I have. ClassicsToday calls it a CD from Hell.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-immerseels-recipe-for-a-beethoven-disaster/

I really like it, however. Not being a ClassicsToday "Insider," I can't read the review but does anyone here have an opinion on this set, or the earlier version? This one and the Chailly recording are my two "go-to" sets when I want to listen to Beethoven.

MIFrost

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 5:02:01 PM UTC+4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

> I really like it, however. Not being a ClassicsToday "Insider," I can't read the
> review but does anyone here have an opinion on this set, or the earlier version?
> This one and the Chailly recording are my two "go-to" sets when I want to listen
> to Beethoven.

I thought it was OK but didn't like it enough to keep it. For HIP sets I much prefer Gardiner, Krivine, and Bruggen. Immerseel just doesn't do enough with the music. There are a few movements where his approach works reasonably well, but that wasn't nearly enough for me.

Matty

[yipeng...@gmail.com]

I was lucky enough to write a review of this Immerseel set just in time to publish it when the re-release came out. Although I liked the nice blend of sound, I felt that Immerseel could have exerted himself a bit more, more often in vigorous movements. I felt it takes some effort to measure up to Gardiner's robustness or even Mackerras's perception as far as HIP Beethoven symphony cycles are concerned.

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

Well that's two votes for Gardiner. I've only listened to Gardiner's recording of the 9th. I'll have to listen again.

MIFrost

[O]

In article <2dd756f3-7664-4df3...@googlegroups.com>,

Try the Eroica - I think it embodies Gardiner's take on things.

-Owen

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

So is there a difference between this:
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B0000057EO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_15_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XRT3APZ3J79BY2ADCVX1&dpID=511fY76gbtL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

and this?
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B0033QC0WE/ref=pd_sbs_15_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0033QC0WE&pd_rd_r=A7MVET1JQRAMHBHE2GBP&pd_rd_w=OV5Kz&pd_rd_wg=Nw3zi&psc=1&refRID=A7MVET1JQRAMHBHE2GBP&dpID=519ToXZG5vL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

Or are they identical except for the packaging?

MIFrost

[Gerard]

Op dinsdag 17 april 2018 00:33:25 UTC+2 schreef sfr...@nycap.rr.com:

They are identical except for the packaging.

[Alan Dawes]

In article <160420181616265571%ow...@denofinequityx.com>,

O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> wrote:
> > > I was lucky enough to write a review of this Immerseel set just in
> > > time to publish it when the re-release came out. Although I liked
> > > the nice blend of sound, I felt that Immerseel could have exerted
> > > himself a bit more, more often in vigorous movements. I felt it
> > > takes some effort to measure up to Gardiner's robustness or even
> > > Mackerras's perception as far as HIP Beethoven symphony cycles are
> > > concerned.
> >
> > Well that's two votes for Gardiner. I've only listened to Gardiner's
> > recording of the 9th. I'll have to listen again.
> >

> Try the Eroica - I think it embodies Gardiner's take on things.

> -Owen

Another vote for Gardiner here, whose interpretation can be "seen" in the
2003 BBC film Eroica portraying(?) the first (private) performance of 9th
June 1804. It can be viewed on youtube eg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtA7m3viB70

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 12:16:35 AM UTC+4, O wrote:

> Try the Eroica - I think it embodies Gardiner's take on things.

I've long been a fan of Gardiner's set, but the Eroica is nowhere close to my favorite performance in the set. (I agree with Alan that the later recording for the BBC film *Eroica* is superior.) I recommend that MIFrost start with Gardiner's 7th.

Matty

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

Well friends, I've done what I promised I wouldn't do. I ordered *another* Beethoven symphony set. I already have Barenboim, Karajan ('63), Bernstein/Vienna, Zinman, Harnoncourt, Chailly and Immerseel. "I'll never need (or want) another," I said. Now I've ordered Gardiner. Meanwhile, I haven't listened to Bernstein in a while. I think I'll do that now.

MIFrost

[markm...@gmail.com]

I'm sorry to do this, but consider adding Leibowitz/Royal Philharmonic.

Mark

[SJWaudio]

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 4:42:49 PM UTC-4, markm...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I'm sorry to do this, but consider adding Leibowitz/Royal Philharmonic.
>
> Mark

I think the Leibowitz/Royal Philharmonic set can be obtained quite inexpensively ($2.69) as part of the following set:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JWNY1QA/ref=sr_1_9_rd?_encoding=UTF8&child=B00JWNYI9A&qid=1524003995&sr=1-9%3C/a%3E

[Andrew Clarke]

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:02:01 PM UTC+10, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
> I have the earlier incarnation of this set, which appears to have been reissued. I assume, that is, that it's a reissue of the set I have. ClassicsToday calls it a CD from Hell.
>
> https://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-immerseels-recipe-for-a-beethoven-disaster/
>

Not enough vibrato. And the graphic designer who did the booklet cover was born in Wigan.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
nimmer selig

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 1:53:12 PM UTC+4, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Not enough vibrato. And the graphic designer who did the booklet cover was
> born in Wigan.

So?

Matty

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I think that was a joke.

MIFrost

[Mark Zimmer]

Agreed. Whenever anyone asks for a recommendation for the Beethoven symphonies as a set, Leibowitz is my answer. Terrific performances, very well recorded sound, not a clunker in the bunch. As good as it gets in the big band Beethoven.

[Randy Lane]

Kind of miss the days when the answer to almost every question like this was "Uncle Ernie" from at least one or two regulars. Their motto "Ansermet can do no wrong".

[Ricardo Jimenez]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT), Mark Zimmer
<gard...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Agreed. Whenever anyone asks for a recommendation for the Beethoven symphonies as a set, Leibowitz is my answer. Terrific performances, very well recorded sound, not a clunker in the bunch. As good as it gets in the big band Beethoven.

From the same period, similar things are said about the set by
Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic. Anybody like to make a
comparison? Both are on Spotify.

[Raymond Hall]

-Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic.  Anybody like to make a 
-comparison?  Both are on Spotify. 


A question that came to me also.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Andrew Clarke]

Less of a joke than a wry observation.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:02:28 AM UTC+4, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:

> From the same period, similar things are said about the set by
> Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic. Anybody like to make a
> comparison? Both are on Spotify.

Forgive me, but if they're both on Spotify, why do you need us to make a comparison? Have a listen!

Matty

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 11:11:53 AM UTC+4, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Less of a joke than a wry observation.

I don't get it -- the joke or the observation.

Matty

[Andrew Clarke]

It refers to the idees fixes of a certain Classics Today reviewer, much discussed in this newsgroup, which can sometimes seriously affect his judgement.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 10:06:19 AM UTC+4, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> It refers to the idees fixes of a certain Classics Today reviewer,
> much discussed in this newsgroup, which can sometimes seriously affect his
> judgement.

Hurwitz likes plenty of British performances. It's British critics that he's constantly complaining about.

Matty

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 1:51:15 PM UTC-5, Mark Zimmer wrote:
> Agreed. Whenever anyone asks for a recommendation for the Beethoven symphonies as a set, Leibowitz is my answer. Terrific performances, very well recorded sound, not a clunker in the bunch. As good as it gets in the big band Beethoven.

Leibowitz holds a special status for me since I generally either love or hate what I hear, and it is fairly 50/50. His handling of 9:iv has moments that are laughable, frankly (I don't give a fig what the justification amounts to), and there are other movements that sound pedestrian, rushed, and artless. Yet other movements are terrific. His Eroica is excellent.

But the highlights aren't enough- my pleasures fall too inconsistently throughout for me to recommend it.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 5:02:28 PM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> From the same period, similar things are said about the set by
> Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic. Anybody like to make a
> comparison? Both are on Spotify.

Night and day. A traditional set against one that cut a new path towards HIP. Even the recordings themselves are different, with Leibowitz very "studio" and the EMI set sounding very two-mic stereo. Going back and forth would likely produce a sort of whiplash and a strong reaction against one of them, which would probably be unfair to both.