Hilary Hahn's Elgar Violin Cto
Victor Chen
Violin cto. is due out on July 21th (at least in Japan). I've been holding
off on buying the old Kennedy/Handley for this disc. Has anyone ever
listened to Hahn/Davis perform the Elgar live? What can we expect from this
recording?
Victor
Alan Hayward
news:cc8d43$ac7$1...@puck.cc.emory.edu:
The BBC broadcast a performance with Hahn and the Bavarian RSO conducted by
Colin Davis from Munich in the autumn of 2002. Very good it was too, far
better than the Kennedy/Handley recording, which I have never liked.
Hahn's tempi were broadly similar to those adopted by Menuhin in his
recording with the composer, not as fast as Sammons or Heifetz but, on the
other hand, nowhere near as slow as Kennedy. Hahn's phrasing, and use of
rubato, were impeccable and free of the sort of self-indulgent mannerisms
that deface Kennedy's later recording with Rattle.
This performance was drawn to my attention by another contributor to this
ng, Richard Sauer. I think Richard liked the performance even more than I
did.
Tom Deacon
<victo...@duke.edu> wrote:
I would imagine much less than you can hear on the Menuhin Elgar
performance, which trumps the Kennedy hands down.
TD
Lani Spahr
I have the live recording (from BBC Radio 3) and was roundly
disappointed. I thought it was one, if not THE, most boring
performance of this work I've ever heard. No fire, no passion, no
nostalgia, and no sense of loss, which is paramount in this work. Just
good violin playing and nothing more.
Of course this is just my opinion and others will add theirs, I'm
sure.
My favorite (at present)? Haendel/Pritchard on BBC Classics live.
Lani Spahr
Peter Schenkman
I second the comments of Tom Deacon, the Menuhin is a performance for
the ages and at the Naxos price a steal. You even get the Bruch First
Concerto from 1932 thrown in. Heifetz and Albert Sammons, both on
Naxos are worth seeking out as well. I heard Hahn in Toronto with the
Toronto Symphony last season and was decidedly unimpressed.
Peter Schenkman
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:35b39934.04070...@posting.google.com:
Unlike some people, I don't have to imagine what Hahn's broadcast (with Sir
Colin Davis/Bavarian RSO, from 18 October 2002) is like, since I have heard
it; I find it deeply moving, and the violinist is in full technical command.
Certainly, the touchstone recordings of the work are Menuhin/Elgar, and
Sammons/Harty; both of Kennedy's are very good, if not revelatory.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Alan Hayward
news:Xns951C757E21E...@207.217.125.206:
> Unlike some people, I don't have to imagine what Hahn's broadcast
> (with Sir Colin Davis/Bavarian RSO, from 18 October 2002) is like,
> since I have heard it; I find it deeply moving, and the violinist is
> in full technical command. Certainly, the touchstone recordings of
> the work are Menuhin/Elgar, and Sammons/Harty; both of Kennedy's are
> very good, if not revelatory.
Sammons/Harty? I think you meant Sammons/Wood ;).
What is it about the Elgar Concerto that leads to such conflicting opinions
of any performance of it? Like you, I found Hilary Hahn's performance
moving. Lani Spahr, on the other hand, found it boring. You consider both
Nigel Kennedy recordings very good while, frankly, I find the first
recording boring and the second very irritating.
The best advice I can offer to anyone considering buying a recording of
this concerto is to hear it first. Never, EVER, rely on anyone else's
opinion. I made that mistake when I bought the first Kennedy recording
after reading two or three 'rave' reviews of it. Never again.
DogJibe
Never heard it, but am looking forward to it in September in Europe - it
will be available on SACD as per DG's website. FWIW I have always found
Kennedy's first recording (with Handley) superior to Menuhin's or Sammons'.
Dan Koren
news:35b39934.04070...@posting.google.com...
>
> I second the comments of Tom Deacon, the Menuhin is a
> performance for the ages and at the Naxos price a steal.
Syrup dos not age well.
> You even get the Bruch First Concerto from 1932 thrown in.
Yikes!
And you also get Menuhin, syrup and all.
Thanks, but no thanks.
dk
David Hurwitz
>What is it about the Elgar Concerto that leads to such conflicting opinions
>of any performance of it? >
I can think of a few reasons:
1. It's the longest concerto in the repertoire and on this ground alone a huge
challenge for listeners, soloists and conductors equally; accordingly the
potential for any new performance, especially one on the slow side of normal, to
challenge the attention span of even a sympathetic listener is very real, and
boredom is an ever-present possibility. The music certainly does not "play
itself."
2. Although it's atrociously difficult for the soloist, all of its difficulties
are subordinate to the music's expressive point. In other words, it's more about
Elgar than about being a Violin Concerto, and so there is a real issue as
regards the performers' sympathy with the composer's idiom and their ability to
subordinate the natural tendency to indulge in anonymous virtuoso display at the
expense of the music's idiomatic expressive intentions. Natually, each listener
(and performer) will have a different sense of where this line should be drawn.
3. There's also a tendency to divide the world into two camps: the violin lovers
and the Elgarians (not that one can't be both!), and those more interested in
the personality of the performer than in the work itself will have strong views
about this dichotomy as regards interpretation.
4. The fact that there is an excellent recording by the composer himself at once
establishes a "standard," and begs the question of how legitimate other
interpretive options are. While acknowledging the importance and high quality of
the that performance, for example, I certainly don't hold it in special
reverence (particularly as regards Menuhin's contribution and its obvious sonic
deficiencies), but I can certainly understand why others do, and so there's a
tendency to automatically discount many a newcomer.
For example, if one were to accord Hillary Hahn the same respect automatically
given Menuhin for his performance under Elgar, I daresay that many would listen
to her performance from the outset with very different ears (and I say this not
having heard it yet). There is all the difference in the in world coming to the
experience of listening having previously granted the performers a certain
authority, because this almost always means that the listener will take the
position that he must subordinate his expectations to the superior wisdom of the
performers, instead of expecting the performers to meet his pre-existing
expectations.
5. The piece is unusually intimate and bittersweet in expression, despite its
size. With all highly expressive works on this scale (think of Mahler
symphonies, for example), it's natural that most listeners will have "test
spots"--special moments that will largely determine the impression that a
performance makes. Not only with these selective bits be different for each
person, but this, it seems to me, often leads to a tendency to exaggerate the
perceived defects of many interpretations based on relatively small differences
between them: they are either astouningly great or utterly worthless. In truth,
I have found that with such an emotionally complex work it often takes several
auditions to come to grips with any interpretation of it, whether one likes it
or not, and yet most people rush to judgment on a single hearing, love or hate
the result with a passion, and that's that. And few who dislike an
interpretation are willing to take the time to get to know it the extent that
they may revise their first impression.
So in a sense what it comes down to is one's own personal view of the work, and
whether one listens to hear that view ratified, or whether in turn one listens
to hear the range of expressive and interpretive options that different
interpreters bring to it. In the final analysis, the range of opinion and strong
feelings that the music produces is a testament to its special expressive
qualities and its unique position among Romantic violin concertos.
Dave Hurwitz
Victor Chen
Tom Deacon
Xns951CE37EF3739a...@217.32.252.50, "Alan Hayward"
<alan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The best advice I can offer to anyone considering buying a recording of
> this concerto is to hear it first. Never, EVER, rely on anyone else's
> opinion.
A point I have made repeatedly, Alan, and one which I am very glad someone
else shares.
Your own ears are the only ones which will need to be satisfied in any case.
Listen and then buy.
Or buy and then listen.
The choice is yours.
TD
Tom Deacon
Hurwitz" <David_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> What is it about the Elgar Concerto that leads to such conflicting opinions
>> of any performance of it? >
>
> I can think of a few reasons:
(reasons snipped in order to save space)
> Dave Hurwitz
All arguments aside, and not finding fault with any of them in particular,
it is my conviction that Hurwitz must really be German, don't you think?
Each idea comes in as few as three, but as many as 6 parts. Maybe even as
many as 10.
And I am firmly of the conviction that if asked he could reducde each of
those several parts into subsections.
It must, then, be Horst Urbach, who also suffers from piles, writing under
the pseudonym of David Hurwitz, who also dabbles in the stock market.
Floyd Patterson
Joshua Kaufman
>
> Keep in mind that regular cd players will play SACD recordings.
Only if there's a CD layer as well.
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon Yahoo Messenger: TerraEpon
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/terraepon/
Rob Barnett
venerated Menuhin recordings and remain obstinately unmoved. They shaped my
apathy towards the work. If you want to hear the Elgar treated as a dramatic
concerto yet not short-changed on the tenderness side I recommend
Heifetz/Sargent on Naxos. Normally I find Heifetz uninvolving - not so here.
Magnificent. Try also Zukerman/Barenboim and the Sammons/Harty or the
Bean/RLPO/Groves. I have high hopes for Lani Spahr's preferred choice
(Haendel/Pritchard - avoid the Haendel/Boult on Testament) - all I need to
do is find a copy.
Rob
--
Rob Barnett
Editor, Classical Music on the Web
www.musicweb.uk.net
Editor, British Music Society Newsletter
"Victor Chen" <victo...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:cc8d43$ac7$1...@puck.cc.emory.edu...
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:Xns951C757E21E...@207.217.125.206:
>
>> Unlike some people, I don't have to imagine what Hahn's broadcast
>> (with Sir Colin Davis/Bavarian RSO, from 18 October 2002) is like,
>> since I have heard it; I find it deeply moving, and the violinist is
>> in full technical command. Certainly, the touchstone recordings of
>> the work are Menuhin/Elgar, and Sammons/Harty; both of Kennedy's are
>> very good, if not revelatory.
>
> Sammons/Harty? I think you meant Sammons/Wood ;).
Kee-rect; comes with writing very very quickly before heading out for the
day's festivities (barbecueing and watching videos with the gang). Harty
and Wood are my two "specialty" British knight conductors whose recordings
I collect. Between them, I find Harty the one who borders upon, sometimes
exists in, the realm of the great; Wood doesn't quite come up to that level
for me as a conductor per se, but I find his musicianship and fluency speak
to me directly and make a very personal impression.
> What is it about the Elgar Concerto that leads to such conflicting
> opinions of any performance of it? Like you, I found Hilary Hahn's
> performance moving. Lani Spahr, on the other hand, found it boring. You
> consider both Nigel Kennedy recordings very good while, frankly, I find
> the first recording boring and the second very irritating.
>
> The best advice I can offer to anyone considering buying a recording of
> this concerto is to hear it first. Never, EVER, rely on anyone else's
> opinion. I made that mistake when I bought the first Kennedy recording
> after reading two or three 'rave' reviews of it. Never again.
I bought both Kennedy recordings after reading rave reviews, perhaps even
the same ones you saw. I didn't find my money to have been wasted, but I
also did not hear the recordings revelatory, as I have already said.
Alex
"Joshua Kaufman" <terrr...@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:40E8A551...@cinci.rr.com...
> Floyd Patterson wrote:
> >
> > Keep in mind that regular cd players will play SACD recordings.
>
> Only if there's a CD layer as well.
All DG's SACDs are hybrids - like all Polygram titles. Sony's are SACD only
IIRC.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:abSdnT8B99w...@karoo.co.uk:
The Volodos Tchai PC #1 is a hybrid.
DogJibe
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns951D6B29485...@207.217.125.204...
> "Alex" <aki...@blueyonder.co.uk> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:abSdnT8B99w...@karoo.co.uk:
>
> > "Joshua Kaufman" <terrr...@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:40E8A551...@cinci.rr.com...
> >> Floyd Patterson wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Keep in mind that regular cd players will play SACD recordings.
> >>
> >> Only if there's a CD layer as well.
> >
> > All DG's SACDs are hybrids - like all Polygram titles. Sony's are SACD
> > only IIRC.
>
> The Volodos Tchai PC #1 is a hybrid.
Yep, that's the only one AFAIK.
DSCH symphony 6
Forgive my ignorance, but this is the longest Violin Concerto in the repetoire?
What are some typical total timings?
What is "reference" recording for this work? If mono, could recommend a stereo
AAD or ADD recording?
Fred
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
Menuhin/Elgar - 49:56 (EMI Elgar Edition) or 50:05 (Naxos)
Sammons/Wood - 43:15 (Novello) or 43:31 (Naxos)
Kennedy/Handley - 54:00 (anybody have exact recording dates?)
Kennedy/Rattle - 53:40
Hahn/Davis/Bavarian RSO 2002 (live performance) - 48:07
graham
> dschsy...@aol.com (DSCH symphony 6) appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:20040706004857...@mb-m10.aol.com:
>
> >
> > Forgive my ignorance, but this is the longest Violin Concerto in the
> > repetoire?
> >
> > What are some typical total timings?
> >
> > What is "reference" recording for this work? If mono, could recommend a
> > stereo AAD or ADD recording?
>
> Menuhin/Elgar - 49:56 (EMI Elgar Edition) or 50:05 (Naxos)
>
> Sammons/Wood - 43:15 (Novello) or 43:31 (Naxos)
>
> Kennedy/Handley - 54:00 (anybody have exact recording dates?)
>
> Kennedy/Rattle - 53:40
>
> Hahn/Davis/Bavarian RSO 2002 (live performance) - 48:07
>
Heifetz/Sargent - 41:28 (Naxos)
Chung/Solti - 49:26
Graham
Tom Deacon
<stra...@shaw.ca> wrote:
At moments like this one wishes that Hurwitz had anything to say about the
Elgar Violin Concerto. His stopwatch is noted for its precision in matters
of timing. But alas I cannot imagine him ever understanding the subtle
beauties of this score.
Tempo is only one aspect, of course. But Heifetz really does sort of destroy
the piece with machine-like precision. One of the worst recordings he ever
made of a standard repertoire concerto, in my opinion. To be avoided.
The Sammons isn't a patch on the Menuhin, which still stands like the Venus
de Milo. Flawed, perhaps, but still perfect.
The others are also rans. And distant ones at that.
Should I take this opportunity to put in a pitch for Hugh Bean/Sir Charles
Groves? Impossible to obtain a clean copy of the EMI LP, unfortunately,
something which always annoyed me in this very inward music. Clicks and pops
can easily destroy the pleasure of listening. Fortunately it has been
transferred to CD now, initially by Classics for Pleasure on a single CD and
now in a CfP two-fer, from what I can recall.
The timing: 49:03
But I leave the interpretation of the timing mysteries to our stopwatch
expert. How else could one tell the pulse of the music?
TD
C R Lim
>
> My favorite (at present)? Haendel/Pritchard on BBC Classics live.
>
> Lani Spahr
Haven't heard that recording but I would second a vote for Ida Haendel as
one who communicates (to me, anyway) as few other violinists do. Even at the
recent (75th?) birthday gala her playing was immediately recognisable and
heartwarming.
I have off-air recordings of her playing the Elgar (with LPO / Haitink) and
the Walton (with BBC SO / Mackerras) which should be considered for release
by the BBC.
--
Bob Lim
(to reply by mail remove the obstacle)
Phil Wood
"DSCH symphony 6" <dschsy...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040706004857...@mb-m10.aol.com...
>
> Forgive my ignorance, but this is the longest Violin Concerto in the
repetoire?
>
How do you define "the repertoire"?
Amongst the concertos I would expect to ba able to hear live at least once a
year (I live near London so have a good number of opportunities to hear
concerts) it is the longest.
But there are longer concertos on CD - Alan Pettersson's 2nd, Max von
Schillings's & Max Reger's.
Boris Tischenko's 2nd is also longer than some renditions of the Elgar.
> What are some typical total timings?
You have been given plenty of these.
> What is "reference" recording for this work? If mono, could recommend a
stereo
> AAD or ADD recording?
>
Menuhin/Elgar has to be a reference, the stereo "reference" seems to be
Kennedy/Handley - it is the one everyone seems to use for comparison - DDD
though..
Phil
DSCH symphony 6
>repetoire?
>>
>
>How do you define "the repertoire"?
I used to define repertoire as being the Schwann Classical Guide with at least
2 good performances (actually make that performances period).
Fred
The Schwann is long gone. I had a professor of music looking for one a couple
years ago. He found one without misprints from 1999.
Tom Deacon
<bob.lim...@tesco.net> wrote:
My experiences have been less positive. The last time I heard her play,
about 15 years ago, she was already scratching horribly at her instrument.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:ccfgos$nsj$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk:
> "DSCH symphony 6" <dschsy...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040706004857...@mb-m10.aol.com...
>>
>> Forgive my ignorance, but this is the longest Violin Concerto in the
>> repetoire?
>
> How do you define "the repertoire"?
>
> Amongst the concertos I would expect to ba able to hear live at least
> once a year (I live near London so have a good number of opportunities
> to hear concerts) it is the longest.
>
> But there are longer concertos on CD - Alan Pettersson's 2nd, Max von
> Schillings's & Max Reger's.
Just for grins, I'll give some timings where I have them:
Pettersson #2: 56:39 (Haendel, Blomstedt/Swedish RSO, Caprice)
Reger: 1:04:24 (!) (Peinemann, Hauschild/Stuttgart PO, Amati)
> Boris Tischenko's 2nd is also longer than some renditions of the Elgar.
Tishchenko #2: 52:02 (Stadler, Sinaisky/Leningrad PO, Melodiya)
Don't have the Schillings. There's now another 50+ minute contender:
Rochberg: 51:44 (Skærved, Lyndon-Gee/Saarbrücken RSO, Naxos)
>> What are some typical total timings?
>
> You have been given plenty of these.
>
>> What is "reference" recording for this work? If mono, could recommend
>> a stereo AAD or ADD recording?
>
> Menuhin/Elgar has to be a reference, the stereo "reference" seems to be
> Kennedy/Handley - it is the one everyone seems to use for comparison -
> DDD though..
--
Sol L. Siegel
>"DSCH symphony 6" <dschsy...@aol.com> wrote...
>>
>> Forgive my ignorance, but this is the longest Violin Concerto
>> in therepetoire?
>>
>
>How do you define "the repertoire"?
>
>Amongst the concertos I would expect to ba able to hear live at
>least once a year (I live near London so have a good number of
>opportunities to hear concerts) it is the longest.
As good a definition as any, I suppose. Of course, some
very slow renderings of Brahms and perhaps Beethoven will
surpass the quicker ones of Elgar.
Another not (yet) standard work that beats it: the uncut Rochberg.
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)
Claude_Tsai
> On 7/6/04 1:02 PM, in article hWAGc.36051$P7.28916@pd7tw3no, "graham"
> <stra...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:Xns951E4E04CF3...@207.217.125.206...
> >> dschsy...@aol.com (DSCH symphony 6) appears to have caused the
> >> following letters to be typed in
> >> news:20040706004857...@mb-m10.aol.com:
> the piece with machine-like precision. One of the worst recordings he ever
> made of a standard repertoire concerto, in my opinion. To be avoided.
When he made the recording in the 1949, I guess the concerto was still
not in the standard repertoire?
Meanwhile, I don't really hear the machine-like precision. There is
drama and then, passion. One hears precision only because he expects
it from the violinist.
The Heifetz Elgar ranks as one of the best things the violinist ever
recorded. Highly recommended. ("In my opinion", of course. That's
always a good excuse.)
C R Lim
Don't suppose you like Lola Bobesco, either?
--
Bob
Tom Deacon
<bob.lim...@tesco.net> wrote:
> "Tom Deacon" <deac...@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:BD10CF41.49C8%deac...@nospam-yahoo.com...
>> On 7/6/04 6:54 PM, in article 2l0oqpF...@uni-berlin.de, "C R Lim"
>> <bob.lim...@tesco.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Lani Spahr wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My favorite (at present)? Haendel/Pritchard on BBC Classics live.
>>>>
>>>> Lani Spahr
>>>
>>> Haven't heard that recording but I would second a vote for Ida Haendel
> as
>>> one who communicates (to me, anyway) as few other violinists do. Even at
> the
>>> recent (75th?) birthday gala her playing was immediately recognisable
> and
>>> heartwarming.
>>>
>>> I have off-air recordings of her playing the Elgar (with LPO / Haitink)
> and
>>> the Walton (with BBC SO / Mackerras) which should be considered for
> release
>>> by the BBC.
>>
>> My experiences have been less positive. The last time I heard her play,
>> about 15 years ago, she was already scratching horribly at her instrument.
>>
>> TD
>>
>
> Don't suppose you like Lola Bobesco, either?
Don't know her at all.
But I like Mi Dori a great deal. Perhaps she will record the Elgar? Unless
she has already done so, of course. Don't know for sure.
TD
Van Eyes
news:z2%Fc.4133$0%.35755178@news-text.cableinet.net
> FWIW I have always found
> Kennedy's first recording (with Handley) superior to Menuhin's or Sammons'.
Haven't heard the latter's, but Kennedy/Handley's plenty good enough for
me. BTW, it's about the only Kennedy recording I'm interested in.
Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Alan Hayward
news:20040707004049...@mb-m26.aol.com:
> As good a definition as any, I suppose. Of course, some
> very slow renderings of Brahms and perhaps Beethoven will
> surpass the quicker ones of Elgar.
Quite true in the case of the Beethoven. I've just pulled a few discs down
from the shelves:
Elgar: Heifetz/Sargent 41:28
Elgar: Sammons/Wood 43:31
Beethoven: Kreisler/Barbirolli 43:58
Beethoven: Menuhin/Furtwängler 43:43
Heifetz and Sammons are admittedly "quicker performances" of the Elgar than
most of the others.