best Also Sprach Zarathustra recordings
Michael D. Porter
I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
headphones).
Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
email address.
--Mike
Brian W. Camp
I'd recommend Previn's Telarc Recording with the Vienna forces!!!! It
has a wonderful dynamic range and clarity of texture.
Not to mention great musicianship!!!
Telarc CD-80167
Matthew Vaughan
In article
<nojunkmdporter-ya0240...@news.earthlink.net>,
nojunkm...@earthlink.net (Michael D. Porter) wrote:
> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
> audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
> orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
> headphones).
>
> Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
> email address.
>
> --Mike
Herbert Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden (on Denon) is very fine. This has
some truly gorgeous playing, especially from the strings.
--
Matthew Vaughan
matthewv-at-macconnect-dot-com (damn spammers...)
Classical Music and Macintosh computers? Yeah, you could say I'm in the minority...
The Melsons
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:13:45 -0700, nojunkm...@earthlink.net
(Michael D. Porter) wrote:
>
>
>I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
>Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
>audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
>orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
>headphones).
>
>Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
>email address.
>
>--Mike
There are many fine recordings, but I've never heard a more exciting
one than Reiner's 1954 version with the Chicago Symphony. Yes, the
organ is slightly out of tune in its brief appearance (caused by
bitterly cold weather the day of the recording and the proximity of
the organ pipes to a cold exterior wall) but the focus, virtuosity and
forward momentum of the performance make it thrilling. And the early
stereo sound is unbelievably good. It's coupled with an excellent
"Heldenleben" on RCA Living Stereo at mid-price. A classic bargain.
Mark Melson
John Grabowski
In <33680d88....@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ame...@ix.netcom.com (The
Melsons) writes:
>There are many fine recordings, but I've never heard a more exciting
>one than Reiner's 1954 version with the Chicago Symphony. Yes, the
>organ is slightly out of tune in its brief appearance (caused by
>bitterly cold weather the day of the recording and the proximity of
>the organ pipes to a cold exterior wall) but the focus, virtuosity and
>forward momentum of the performance make it thrilling. And the early
>stereo sound is unbelievably good. It's coupled with an excellent
>"Heldenleben" on RCA Living Stereo at mid-price. A classic bargain.
>
>Mark Melson
That is a wonderful recording, cold organ aside, though I have a
different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
Is it really that old (1954?) The sound is astonishing, as is that of
many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
John
Mr. Mike
nojunkm...@earthlink.net (Michael D. Porter) writes:
>I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
>Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations?
The Reiner version (Living Stereo on RCA), despite being over 40 years old, is
still excellent.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my home page: http://web20.mindlink.net/a4369 -- The home
of the award-winning Hawaii Five-O Home Page, X-Files stuff and more!
Chloe Carter
In article <5k9e3i$3...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John
Grabowski) writes:
>
>That is a wonderful recording, cold organ aside, though I have a
>different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
Reiner re-recorded 'Also sprach' in the early 60's. This may be the
version you have.
>Is it really that old (1954?) The sound is astonishing, as is that of
>many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the original
LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
>John
- Chloe
John Grabowski
In <5kaj8s$u...@node2.frontiernet.net> qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe
Carter) writes:
>
>In article <5k9e3i$3...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
joh...@ix.netcom.com(John
>Grabowski) writes:
>
>>
>>That is a wonderful recording, cold organ aside, though I have a
>>different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
>
>Reiner re-recorded 'Also sprach' in the early 60's. This may be the
>version you have.
Nope. It's the 1954, reissued in 1986, along with Der Rosenkavalier
Waltzes and Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme Suite.
>>Is it really that old (1954?) The sound is astonishing, as is that
of
>>many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
>
>Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the
original
>LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
Sigh...my parents collected the wrong records. Can't get hundreds of
dollars for Doris Day today. ;-)
John
Mike Quigley
On 1 May 1997 17:18:20 GMT, qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter)
wrote:
>>Is it really that old (1954?) The sound is astonishing, as is that of
>>many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
>
>Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the original
>LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
No, they sell for those kind of prices because psychotic collectors
are willing to pay that kind of money for them. ";-/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply, remove the dashes in the e-mail address before the "@" sign...
Matthew B. Tepper
Chloe Carter wrote:
>
> In article <5k9e3i$3...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
> joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Grabowski) writes:
>
> >That is a wonderful recording, cold organ aside, though I have a
> >different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
>
> Reiner re-recorded 'Also sprach' in the early 60's. This may be the
> version you have.
>
> >of many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
>
> Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the
> original LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
>
>
> - Chloe
I should think that another part of the reason is that which was so
eloquently expressed by Phineas Taylor Barnum....
--
Matthew B. Tepper: Web geek, duck admirer, SF reader, Berlioz fan
The only good spammer is a DEAD spammer. $5 REWARD for proof of a
homicide directly relating to the "victim" having been a spammer!
Visit my Berlioz page! http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
Patrick Neve
What's anyone's opinion on the Zuben Mehta rendition, from the late 60's
(I believe)?
CONSTANTIN MARCOU
John Grabowski wrote:
>
> In <33680d88....@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ame...@ix.netcom.com (The
> Melsons) writes:
>
> >There are many fine recordings, but I've never heard a more exciting
> >one than Reiner's 1954 version with the Chicago Symphony. Yes, the
> >organ is slightly out of tune in its brief appearance (caused by
> >bitterly cold weather the day of the recording and the proximity of
> >the organ pipes to a cold exterior wall) but the focus, virtuosity and
> >forward momentum of the performance make it thrilling. And the early
> >stereo sound is unbelievably good. It's coupled with an excellent
> >"Heldenleben" on RCA Living Stereo at mid-price. A classic bargain.
> >
> >Mark Melson
>
> different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
> many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
>
I'll chime in with all the other voices clamoring for Reiner. Forget
this "audiophile" stuff; I hear details in those old Reiner recordings
that I've never heard on any fancy DDD so-called audiophile edition.
Con
Doctor Gonzo
nojunkm...@earthlink.net (Michael D. Porter) wrote:
>I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
>Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations?
Depends on whether you want killer sonics or a great performance.
Great performances: Reiner/Chicago Symphony (RCA Living Stereo, very
good stereo sound from 1954 and gripping from the word go) or
Kempe/Staatskapelle Dresden (EMI, multi-miked with limiters in the mix
and heavy knob twiddling, but detailed and exciting).
Killer sound: Mester/Pasadena Symphony (Auracle), but not a
particularly memorable performance, also some intonation, balance and
ensemble problems. You deserve better (see above).
The Doc
End Spam Now! Ask me how!
my email address is
>drgonzo@<
>pipeline<
> .com <
Kalman Rubinson
John Grabowski (joh...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> >Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the
> original
> >LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
>
> dollars for Doris Day today. ;-)
Yeah my parents were no help either. However, I just picked one up at the
flea market for $2!
Kal
The Melsons
>In article <5k9e3i$3...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John
>Grabowski) writes:
>
>>
>>That is a wonderful recording, cold organ aside, though I have a
>>different edition where it's coupled with parts of Der Rosenkavalier.
>
>Reiner re-recorded 'Also sprach' in the early 60's. This may be the
>version you have.
No, I think you do have the 1954, on a previous CD incarnation (RCA
Gold Seal, 09026-60930) with waltzes from Rosenkavalier and the
Bourgeois Gentilhomme Suite.>
>>Is it really that old (1954?) The sound is astonishing, as is that of
>>many other early Reiner/CSO recordings on RCA.
>
>Yes, 1954, it's hard to believe. And this is why so many of the original
>LP editions of these recordings sell for hundreds of $$.
>
>>John
>
>- Chloe
>
Brian Park
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Michael D. Porter wrote:
>
> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
> audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
> orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
> headphones).
>
> Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
> email address.
>
> --Mike
>
>
hi mike.
IMHO, the best recording of this magnificent score is chicago
symphony orchestra's 1954 performance under the baton of fritz reiner.
the opening is a little bit disappointing, particularly the pipe organ.
but the rest of the performance more than makes up for that, and you will
not be able to find another recording that can match reiner's vision and
the outstanding playing of the chicago symphony musicians- especially the
brass section. since this is one of the first recordings done in stereo,
the sound cannot compare to that of digital recordings, but the
performance itself is definitely something special.
brian park
Gddecker
The 1954 Reiner and CSO recording on RCA stands up second only to the 1973
von Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic recording recently released in DG's
The Orinals series......................hear it, you'll be impressed.
Geoffrey Decker
Hsuande
gdde...@aol.com (Gddecker) wrote:
>Geoffrey Decker
I'll support that. This 1973 performance is cogent and red-blooded.
Not damning Reiner here; both versions are indispensable for the
Strauss collector.
Mahesh Sardesai
In article <19970505030...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
gdde...@aol.com (Gddecker) wrote:
> The 1954 Reiner and CSO recording on RCA stands up second only to the 1973
> von Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic recording recently released in DG's
> The Orinals series......................hear it, you'll be impressed.
Comments on Karajan's recording from the 1980's on DG Karajan Gold?
--
Mahesh P. Sardesai, Brown University
Mahesh_...@brown.edu
http://www.netspace.org/~sardesai/
Paul Penna
In article <336fbf75....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, ame...@ix.netcom.com
(The Melsons) wrote:
> You are mistaken about the Karajan "Also Sprach" being used in the
> original soundtrack for "2001." I have an "original soundtrack" LP
> that credits Karl Boehm and the Berlin Philharmonic for the
> performance used in the film. The album cover clearly states "MGM
> Records in association with Deutsche Grammophon presents Music From
> the Motion Picture Sound Track." Karajan IS credited with the "Blue
> Danube" recording with the Berlin Phil.
The soundtrack album uses Boehm, but the film itself does not. Most
speculation I've heard mentions an Ormandy recording, but licensing
considerations prevented its use on the soundtrack album. Kubrick is
reported to have used records from his own collection to form the temp
track for the film, then went ahead and used those recordings after
rejecting the Alex North score.
See http://www.krusch.com/kubrick/faq.html
Paul Penna
J Amaral
Michael D. Porter wrote:
>
> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
> audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
> orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
> headphones).
>
> Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
> email address.
>
> --Mike
Buy the version that introduced you to this piece. (used in 2001)
It is still the best.
Karajan with the Vienna PO. Remastered on Decca.
(plus Till Eulenspiegel and Don Juan).
The Melsons
You are mistaken about the Karajan "Also Sprach" being used in the
original soundtrack for "2001." I have an "original soundtrack" LP
that credits Karl Boehm and the Berlin Philharmonic for the
performance used in the film. The album cover clearly states "MGM
Records in association with Deutsche Grammophon presents Music From
the Motion Picture Sound Track." Karajan IS credited with the "Blue
Danube" recording with the Berlin Phil.
Other recordings, including Karajan's VPO on London/Decca, tried to
capitalize on the film's popularity by linking their recordings to the
film. My LP pressing (London Stereo Treasury STS 15083) of the Karajan
Vienna Phil version has a big red label in the upper left hand corner
of the cover which reads "including the original VON KARAJAN RECORDING
of music featured in 2001 A Space Odyssey." But notice the careful
wording: the Vienna Phil IS the original Von Karajan recording of the
several he recorded, and it is of "music featured in" 2001, but it
never says it is the actual recording used in the film. Aren't
marketers clever? The Boehm/Berlin Phil is the version of the RICHARD
Strauss used on the film's soundtrack.
Doctor Gonzo
J Amaral <jam...@ibm.net> wrote:
>Michael D. Porter wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
>> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
>> audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by an
>> orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
>> headphones).
>>
>> Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk in the
>> email address.
>>
>> --Mike
>Buy the version that introduced you to this piece. (used in 2001)
>It is still the best.
>Karajan with the Vienna PO. Remastered on Decca.
It's an OK performance (as is Herbie the K's first Berlin recording),
but you'll do way better elsewhere: there's more fire in the two
Reiner / CSO recordings (both in the Reiner Strauss box on Living
Stereo), more dramatic playing in the Kempe / Dresden on EMI, and
nobody's mentioned my top o' the pile Zarathustra --- a super-budget
reissue of Eugen Jochum's mid-1980s recording with the Berlin Radio
Orcehstra now available on IMP Orchid. Inexpensive, with _great_
sound and a probing performance --- find it and buy it --- Doctor's
orders!
The Doc
Fight Spam Now! Ask me how!
John F Bakker
: The 1954 Reiner and CSO recording on RCA stands up second only to the 1973
: von Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic recording recently released in DG's
: The Orinals series......................hear it, you'll be impressed.
I have this one, and I must say that I'm a little dissappointed. There
are some places where the brass are lost amid the strings etc.
Other than that, it's stunning. I haven't heard the Reiner/CSO 1954,
though, so I don't know what I'm comparing with. I have played it, and
expected a different balance from Karajan. Oh well, I'll have to check
out the Reiner!
--
Jon Bakker
"If it doesn't have seven positions, I don't want to play it!"
- Bakker
Hsuande
doctor@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) wrote:
>It's an OK performance (as is Herbie the K's first Berlin recording),
>but you'll do way better elsewhere: there's more fire in the two
>Reiner / CSO recordings (both in the Reiner Strauss box on Living
>Stereo), more dramatic playing in the Kempe / Dresden on EMI, and
>nobody's mentioned my top o' the pile Zarathustra --- a super-budget
>reissue of Eugen Jochum's mid-1980s recording with the Berlin Radio
>Orcehstra now available on IMP Orchid. Inexpensive, with _great_
>sound and a probing performance --- find it and buy it --- Doctor's
>orders!
>The Doc
I don't find the 1962 Reiner particularly compelling. On the contrary,
it is my least preferred version. (The murky remastering probably
takes the lion's share of the blame...)
James C.S. Liu
On 7 May 1997 18:59:50 GMT, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Grabowski)
wrote:
>I'm pretty sure the Karajan/Berlin recording of Also was used for 2001,
>and Karajan/Vienna in the picture was of them doing The Blue Danube.
>
>I can have 2001 fanatic James Liu check this out for me if you want.
_2001_ fanatic James Liu knows better than to get mixed up in
threads like this. =8^) IIRC, the credits for the film do not list
an orchestra or a conductor. I don't have a copy of the soundtrack
album, so I can't comment on that. The story that I heard (entirely
unreliable, I might warn) was that it was a different conductor
entirely used for the film. Unfortunately, I don't remember the
conductor's name, but it was a London Phase 4 LP, which was picked, so
I understand, because it had the slowest take of the introduction
available at the time.
However, I wouldn't swear by that in a court of law ...
--
/James C.S. Liu |"This is not a novel to be tossed
jame...@yale.edu | aside lightly. It should be thrown
New Haven, Connecticut | with great force." -- Dorothy Parker
My opinions have nothing to do with my employer!
Bruce Morrison
On Tue, 06 May 1997 23:56:23 GMT, ame...@ix.netcom.com (The Melsons)
wrote:
>You are mistaken about the Karajan "Also Sprach" being used in the
>original soundtrack for "2001." I have an "original soundtrack" LP
>that credits Karl Boehm and the Berlin Philharmonic for the
>performance used in the film. The album cover clearly states "MGM
>Records in association with Deutsche Grammophon presents Music From
>the Motion Picture Sound Track." Karajan IS credited with the "Blue
>Danube" recording with the Berlin Phil.
>
>Other recordings, including Karajan's VPO on London/Decca, tried to
>capitalize on the film's popularity by linking their recordings to the
>film. My LP pressing (London Stereo Treasury STS 15083) of the Karajan
>Vienna Phil version has a big red label in the upper left hand corner
>of the cover which reads "including the original VON KARAJAN RECORDING
>of music featured in 2001 A Space Odyssey." But notice the careful
>wording: the Vienna Phil IS the original Von Karajan recording of the
>several he recorded, and it is of "music featured in" 2001, but it
>never says it is the actual recording used in the film. Aren't
>marketers clever? The Boehm/Berlin Phil is the version of the RICHARD
>Strauss used on the film's soundtrack.
The Karajan/VPO recording of Also Sprach *was* the one used in the
film - but Decca made it a condition of providing the tape that
neither they nor Karajan should be mentioned in the film credits (can
you believe that?)! John Culshaw, the producer of the recording,
discussed this in his book "Putting The Record Straight".
Apparently, Karajan was furious about it and threatened to sue both
Decca and MGM but was dissuaded by Decca somehow.
Culshaw himself believed that this incident was typical of the
timidity of Decca's management at that time and was just one of the
signs of the decline of the Company which eventually led to it being
taken over in 1980.
I have checked the other music credits on the film itself. Karajan
and the BPO are credited with the Blue Danube. There is no credit for
Karl Boehm at all (and in fact his recording of Zarathustra was made
rather earlier than the Karajan and in less spectacular sound, so
would not have been an obvious choice anyway). I think the LP sleeve
you referred to must have been the result of either trying to
capitalise on the film's popularity or simply an error - not unheard
of with record companies.
--
Bruce Morrison (bruce.m...@dial.pipex.com)
"Wagner has lovely moments but awful quarters of an hour." (Rossini)
John Grabowski
In <336FEE...@ibm.net> J Amaral <jam...@ibm.net> writes:
>
>Michael D. Porter wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also
Sprach
>> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations? I saw a supposed
>> audiophile recording which was about $50 retail a few weeks ago (by
an
>> orchestra in southern california and mastered with Sennheiser hd580
>> headphones).
>>
>> Please post here in the group. If you email me take out the nojunk
in the
>> email address.
>>
>> --Mike
>
>Buy the version that introduced you to this piece. (used in 2001)
>It is still the best.
>Karajan with the Vienna PO. Remastered on Decca.
I'm pretty sure the Karajan/Berlin recording of Also was used for 2001,
and Karajan/Vienna in the picture was of them doing The Blue Danube.
I can have 2001 fanatic James Liu check this out for me if you want.
John
ENagamine
autobiography, the Decca/London recording with Karajan and the VPO was
used in the soundtrack even though the Bohm/BPO is listed. This was done
presumably due to contractual reasons since the MGM soundtrack featured
DG recordings. I believe that MGM still had a licensing agreement with
DG when the recording came out. Culshaw's story of the criminal acts
committed to record the organ part at the begining is most amusing.
The Blue Danube is Karajan/BPO from a 6 digit number series LP which had
the Vienna statue of J.Strauss, Jr. on the cover.
Aloha,
Eric
Steve Grathwohl
In article <3370f280...@news.yale.edu>, jame...@yale.edu (James
C.S. Liu) wrote:
> On 7 May 1997 18:59:50 GMT, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Grabowski)
> wrote:
>
> >I'm pretty sure the Karajan/Berlin recording of Also was used for 2001,
> >and Karajan/Vienna in the picture was of them doing The Blue Danube.
> >
> >I can have 2001 fanatic James Liu check this out for me if you want.
>
> _2001_ fanatic James Liu knows better than to get mixed up in
> threads like this. =8^) IIRC, the credits for the film do not list
> an orchestra or a conductor. I don't have a copy of the soundtrack
> album, so I can't comment on that. The story that I heard (entirely
> unreliable, I might warn) was that it was a different conductor
> entirely used for the film. Unfortunately, I don't remember the
> conductor's name, but it was a London Phase 4 LP, which was picked, so
> I understand, because it had the slowest take of the introduction
> available at the time.
>
Karajan/Vienna was used in the film; Bohm/Berlin was on the soundtrack
recording. I don't think that the Karajan/Vienna was a Phase 4; by the
early
70s, and maybe earlier, it was on the budget Stereo Treasury label.
--
Steve Grathwohl
Duke University Press
gr...@math.duke.edu
Doctor Gonzo
hxu...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Hsuande) wrote:
>I don't find the 1962 Reiner particularly compelling. On the contrary,
>it is my least preferred version. (The murky remastering probably
>takes the lion's share of the blame...)
The new Living Stereo remastering of the '62 (09026-68638-2)? I found
it a _major_ breakthrough over previous versions - clear, transparent,
virtuosic.
Chloe Carter
In article <5kr5g7$k...@camel2.mindspring.com>, doctor@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo)
writes:
>
>The new Living Stereo remastering of the '62 (09026-68638-2)? I found
>it a _major_ breakthrough over previous versions - clear, transparent,
>virtuosic.
>
>The Doc
>
Are you saying here that the '62 Reiner _Zarathustra_ has been
reissued in the Living Stereo series (in addition to the '54)? I
haven't seen this anywhere yet...
- Chloe
Mr. Mike
On Wed, 07 May 1997 21:24:03 GMT, jame...@yale.edu (James C.S. Liu)
wrote:
> _2001_ fanatic James Liu knows better than to get mixed up in
>threads like this. =8^) IIRC, the credits for the film do not list
>an orchestra or a conductor. I don't have a copy of the soundtrack
>album, so I can't comment on that. The story that I heard (entirely
>unreliable, I might warn) was that it was a different conductor
>entirely used for the film. Unfortunately, I don't remember the
>conductor's name, but it was a London Phase 4 LP, which was picked, so
>I understand, because it had the slowest take of the introduction
>available at the time.
It was the DGG recording by Bohm, not the Karajan one on Decca or
London.
Mr. Mike
On 8 May 1997 17:55:50 GMT, qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter)
wrote:
>Are you saying here that the '62 Reiner _Zarathustra_ has been
>reissued in the Living Stereo series (in addition to the '54)? I
>haven't seen this anywhere yet...
Must be part of the Reissue Corporation of America's "Super Huge Box
of Everything Fritz Reiner Every Did"... ";-/
Deryk Barker
James C.S. Liu (jame...@yale.edu) wrote:
: On 7 May 1997 18:59:50 GMT, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Grabowski)
: wrote:
: >I'm pretty sure the Karajan/Berlin recording of Also was used for 2001,
: >and Karajan/Vienna in the picture was of them doing The Blue Danube.
: >
: >I can have 2001 fanatic James Liu check this out for me if you want.
: _2001_ fanatic James Liu knows better than to get mixed up in
: threads like this. =8^) IIRC, the credits for the film do not list
: an orchestra or a conductor. I don't have a copy of the soundtrack
: album, so I can't comment on that. The story that I heard (entirely
: unreliable, I might warn) was that it was a different conductor
: entirely used for the film. Unfortunately, I don't remember the
: conductor's name, but it was a London Phase 4 LP, which was picked, so
: I understand, because it had the slowest take of the introduction
: available at the time.
Well *this* 2001 fanatic just fast-forwarded to the credits and
discovered that you are correct. Every piece of music *except* ASZ is
credited to ensemble, conductor and record company. But after the
screen which says:
Music by Johann Strauss
The Blue Danube
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
conducted by Herbert von Karajan
Courtesy of Deutsche Grammophon
comes the final one which simply says:
Music by Richard Strauss
Also Sprach Zarathustra.
Interesting.
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Across the pale parabola of Joy |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | Ralston McTodd |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | (Songs of Squalor). |
J Amaral
> I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
> Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations?
>
> > It is still the best.
> > Karajan with the Vienna PO. Remastered on Decca.
> > (plus Till Eulenspiegel and Don Juan).
>
> > London.
>
> > > > original soundtrack for "2001." I have an "original soundtrack" LP
> > > > that credits Karl Boehm and the Berlin Philharmonic for the
> > > > performance used in the film.
Ok, lots of replies and controversies!
Let me tell you again, it *is* Karajan's version with the Vienna
Philharmonic
the one used in the film 2001. I was very enthusiastic about it because
this
question was always a mystery to me. I remember seeing an "original"
soundtrack that had Bohm's version, but when I listened to it, I was sure
that that
wasn't the opening I heard in 2001. And the film credits didn't mention the
version used.
Then I bought the 2001 soundtrack CD issued by Turner Classic
Movies Music and Rhino Movie Music, and there was it. This is the first
time the real original soundtrack is released. And, it is Karajan's version
of Zarathustra indeed .
You can even find better versions of the entire piece, but this is the best
opening.
Give it a try. You will remember it from the very first time this
music impressed you.
--
J Amaral
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Doctor Gonzo
qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter) wrote:
>Are you saying here that the '62 Reiner _Zarathustra_ has been
>reissued in the Living Stereo series (in addition to the '54)? I
>haven't seen this anywhere yet...
You betcha... on the fifth of five discs in the "Fritz Reiner Conducts
Richard Strauss" set which hit the stores last month. Even the two
previously issued CDs were re-remastered (this time on a super-tweeked
Studer/Cello tape player to 20-bit resolution, transferred to 16-bit
using Apogee's super-transparent UV22 process). Worth the $$$.
Hsuande
Mahesh_...@brown.edu (Mahesh Sardesai) wrote:
>In article <19970505030...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>gdde...@aol.com (Gddecker) wrote:
>> The 1954 Reiner and CSO recording on RCA stands up second only to the 1973
>> von Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic recording recently released in DG's
>> The Orinals series......................hear it, you'll be impressed.
>Comments on Karajan's recording from the 1980's on DG Karajan Gold?
Better than the 1974 one, IMO. Tempi are slower, but the direction is
compelling. Not as viscerally exciting as Reiner's, but never
lacklustre.
Very luscious digital sound; albeit a little artificial sounding at
times.
Hsuande
doctor@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) wrote:
>hxu...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Hsuande) wrote:
>>I don't find the 1962 Reiner particularly compelling. On the contrary,
>>it is my least preferred version. (The murky remastering probably
>>takes the lion's share of the blame...)
>The new Living Stereo remastering of the '62 (09026-68638-2)? I found
>it a _major_ breakthrough over previous versions - clear, transparent,
>virtuosic.
My version is the first CD release - had a butterfly on the cover and
it came with Leontyne Price's Vier letze Lieder and Die Frau ohne
Scatten scenes. The sound is _disappointing_.
How does the sound for Reiner's 1962 Living Stereo version compare
with that of his 1954 version? Even if it is an improvement, I doubt
if I would want to get it - it didn;t bowl me over the first time.
Besides, the other contributors all support the 1954 one!
Doctor Gonzo
hxu...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Hsuande) wrote:
>How does the sound for Reiner's 1962 Living Stereo version compare
>with that of his 1954 version? Even if it is an improvement, I doubt
>if I would want to get it - it didn;t bowl me over the first time.
>Besides, the other contributors all support the 1954 one!
...probably because they haven't heard the new remastering of the '62
yet! Playing's tighter (and a bit more lyrical at points), with
better imaging and greater dynamic range than the '54. The '54 scores
a hair higher on the "gossebump" scale artistically at many points, ut
the '62 is more cohesive and sounds better.
Hsuande
doctor@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) wrote:
>You betcha... on the fifth of five discs in the "Fritz Reiner Conducts
>Richard Strauss" set which hit the stores last month. Even the two
>previously issued CDs were re-remastered (this time on a super-tweeked
>Studer/Cello tape player to 20-bit resolution, transferred to 16-bit
>using Apogee's super-transparent UV22 process). Worth the $$$.
It now sounds inviting... Haven't seen this set yet in Ozzie. Does it
have Reiner's fabbo 1960 Don Juan and Don Quixote on it? I have their
earlier issues and it'll be great to get a better sound.
Hsuande
Hsuande
doctor@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) wrote:
>...probably because they haven't heard the new remastering of the '62
>yet! Playing's tighter (and a bit more lyrical at points), with
>better imaging and greater dynamic range than the '54. The '54 scores
>a hair higher on the "gossebump" scale artistically at many points, ut
>the '62 is more cohesive and sounds better.
I'll keep that in mind, mate. Does the new set have the 1960 Don Juan
and Don Quixote? I'd love to get better remasters of these
interpretations.
Mr. Mike
hxu...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Hsuande) writes:
>I'll keep that in mind, mate. Does the new set have the 1960 Don Juan
>and Don Quixote? I'd love to get better remasters of these
>interpretations.
As far as I can tell from checking the outside of the box yesterday, it
contains only one version of Don Juan. Watch for the next re-mastering of
this set in another box for the second version!!
--
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naun.chew
dba...@ccins.camosun.bc.ca (Deryk Barker) wrote:
>Well *this* 2001 fanatic just fast-forwarded to the credits and
>discovered that you are correct. Every piece of music *except* ASZ is
>credited to ensemble, conductor and record company.
The story I read (don't remember where) was that Decca was approached for
permission to use the VPO/HvK recording on the film soundtrack. Decca
agreed to the request but, uneasy about being associated with a science
fiction movie, made permission conditional on the recording not being
named - and missed out on a sales bonanza as a result.
Naun.
Brian Park
On Mon, 5 May 1997, Hsuande wrote:
> gdde...@aol.com (Gddecker) wrote:
>
> >The 1954 Reiner and CSO recording on RCA stands up second only to the 1973
> >von Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic recording recently released in DG's
> >The Orinals series......................hear it, you'll be impressed.
>
> >Geoffrey Decker
>
> I'll support that. This 1973 performance is cogent and red-blooded.
> Not damning Reiner here; both versions are indispensable for the
> Strauss collector.
>
>
>
>
sorry, but i don't agree. karajan's '73 performance is indeed
majestic and powerful and the playing of the BPO is what you would expect
from this fine orchestra. but IMHO, it DOES not surpass reiner's in
vision and the electricity and concentration of the chicago symphony
orchestra is incomparable. this is especially the case in the "of joys
and passions" and "dance song and night song" sections. and the playing
of the chicago brass section is peerless. karajan's performance in "the
convalescent" and at the beginning of "nigh wanderer's song" pales in
comparison. allowance must also be made for the fact that reiner's was
recorded almost 20 years before karajan's- one of the earliest
performances recorded in stereo.
brian
Hsuande
Brian Park <bp...@kuentos.guam.net> wrote:
> sorry, but i don't agree. karajan's '73 performance is indeed
>majestic and powerful and the playing of the BPO is what you would expect
>from this fine orchestra. but IMHO, it DOES not surpass reiner's in
>vision and the electricity and concentration of the chicago symphony
>orchestra is incomparable. this is especially the case in the "of joys
>and passions" and "dance song and night song" sections. and the playing
>of the chicago brass section is peerless. karajan's performance in "the
>convalescent" and at the beginning of "nigh wanderer's song" pales in
>comparison. allowance must also be made for the fact that reiner's was
>recorded almost 20 years before karajan's- one of the earliest
>performances recorded in stereo.
I'd agree that the CSO's performance is more virtuosic than the BPO's;
and Reiner's direction more exciting. However, IMO virtuosity the only
measure of a good Zara performance (or perhaps any other work). One
case would be the Haitink Concertgebouw version. The orchestra
concedes a stack of points to the CSO and BPO, yet I find the
performance just as enticing as Reiner's despite this apparent
setback. Personal taste again, I guess...
Reiner's Zara is (to my ears) a brilliant string of 9 sharply-etched
orchestral pictures while Hvk's presentation is noticeably more
seamless (Karajan soup again?!); though displaying less flair in
individual sections. Thus, it better fits my personal _aural
preconception_ of how a tone poem should come across. If Strauss had
intended Zara as a series of orchestral sketches; like Mussorgsky's
Pictures for instance, then the Reiner treatment would be more
appropriate. (And yes, I prefer Reiner's Pictures to Hvk's)
My fav Zara ? Krauss/VPO (1950)
Hsuande
>I'd agree that the CSO's performance is more virtuosic than the BPO's;
>and Reiner's direction more exciting. However, IMO virtuosity
Bruce Morrison
On 13 May 1997 00:37:26 GMT, "naun.chew" <na...@lib.monash.edu.au>
wrote:
>The story I read (don't remember where) was that Decca was approached for
>permission to use the VPO/HvK recording on the film soundtrack. Decca
>agreed to the request but, uneasy about being associated with a science
>fiction movie, made permission conditional on the recording not being
>named - and missed out on a sales bonanza as a result.
See my earlier post in this thread, dated May 7th.
stephen ginsberg
Rich is basically correct.
I cannot believe you all missed it.
1) You need a copy of the Koussevitzky on the "A" stamper Z- schellac.
The masters wore quickly. Yes we are talking 78s.
2) If 78s are not your thing and you want to know what Viennese waltz
tempo is supposed to sound like which Reiner and Koussy do not, you need
the old (hold on to your hats now) Clemens Krauss and the VPO.
Your guiding light in the rhelm of classical music (next to Henry Fogel,
of course. I did not say I was a saint.).
Steve Ginsberg
Chicago, Illinois
rkha...@adnc.com
In article <5ln210$c1d$1...@newsd-105.bryant.webtv.net>,
Could you please provide a bit of context so that we can better
appreciate your humble remarks? Not all posts make it to everyone's
server nor do we know who you are quoting or responding to.
Thanks,
Ramon Khalona
Carlsbad, California
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
stephen ginsberg
I thought we are talking about best ASZ recordings. That is what the
subject header is, Ramon. One is on Victor. The other one is on Decca
(English).
Steve Ginsberg
Chicago, Illinois
Patrick McGuire
In article <01bc5bfb$6bc62d40$021f...@ibm.ibm.net>, jam...@ibm.net says...
For a performance that really packs a whallop, especially in the opening
bars, get the Georges Pretre/Philharmonia Orchestra account on RCA.
--
Patrick McGuire
Stockton, California
Pmcg...@cwws.net
gggg gggg
> wrote:
> >You are mistaken about the Karajan "Also Sprach" being used in the
> >original soundtrack for "2001." I have an "original soundtrack" LP
> >that credits Karl Boehm and the Berlin Philharmonic for the
> >Records in association with Deutsche Grammophon presents Music From
> >the Motion Picture Sound Track." Karajan IS credited with the "Blue
> >Danube" recording with the Berlin Phil.
> >
> >Other recordings, including Karajan's VPO on London/Decca, tried to
> >capitalize on the film's popularity by linking their recordings to the
> >film. My LP pressing (London Stereo Treasury STS 15083) of the Karajan
> >Vienna Phil version has a big red label in the upper left hand corner
> >of the cover which reads "including the original VON KARAJAN RECORDING
> >of music featured in 2001 A Space Odyssey." But notice the careful
> >wording: the Vienna Phil IS the original Von Karajan recording of the
> >several he recorded, and it is of "music featured in" 2001, but it
> >never says it is the actual recording used in the film. Aren't
> >marketers clever? The Boehm/Berlin Phil is the version of the RICHARD
> >Strauss used on the film's soundtrack.
> The Karajan/VPO recording of Also Sprach *was* the one used in the
> film - but Decca made it a condition of providing the tape that
> neither they nor Karajan should be mentioned in the film credits (can
> you believe that?)! John Culshaw, the producer of the recording,
> discussed this in his book "Putting The Record Straight".
> Apparently, Karajan was furious about it and threatened to sue both
> Decca and MGM but was dissuaded by Decca somehow...
When that MGM lp came out, the Schwann list price was $5.88 which made it the most expensive lp after THE SOUND OF MUSIC soundtrack lp which was $6.98.
mswd...@gmail.com
> When that MGM lp came out, the Schwann list price was $5.88 which made it the most expensive lp after THE SOUND OF MUSIC soundtrack lp which was $6.98.
Mr. Mike
soundtrack on Ebay for amounts like $10,000.
ifan
> >I am looking for an excellent recording of Richard Strauss's "Also Sprach
> >Zarathustra" on CD. Are any good recommendations?
> Great performances: Reiner/Chicago Symphony (RCA Living Stereo, very
> good stereo sound from 1954 and gripping from the word go) or
> Kempe/Staatskapelle Dresden (EMI, multi-miked with limiters in the mix
> and heavy knob twiddling, but detailed and exciting).
> Killer sound: Mester/Pasadena Symphony (Auracle), but not a
> particularly memorable performance, also some intonation, balance and
> ensemble problems. You deserve better (see above).
> The Doc
> End Spam Now! Ask me how!
> >drgonzo@<
> >pipeline<
> > .com <
Ifan
mswd...@gmail.com
Also, spend gonna cost ya: someone on EBay want $38 for a new CD, and there are two discs on discogs for similar prices.