Sibelius' Symphonies
Darrin Graves
I believe that I may need to trash my Sibelius symphony collection and start over.
Hastily, I purchased several symphonies without doing any research. Here's what I
may need to replace:
Symphony Nos. 1 & 4/Gibson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra/Chandos
Symphony No. 2 & Violin Concerto/Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra/RCA
Symphony Nos. 3 & 5/Jansons/Olso Philharmonic Orchestra/EMI
Symphony Nos. 5 (1915 & 1919 versions)/Vanska/Lahti Symphony Orchestra/BIS
I don't own any other of Sibelius' symphonies.
Critiques, opinions and recommendations are welcomed.
Note: I just saw Berglund's 5th and 7th (Finlandia) used for $6.99. Should I go back
and get it?
Regards,
Darrin Graves
Jon Bell
Darrin Graves <d.gr...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>I believe that I may need to trash my Sibelius symphony collection and
>start over.
There was a big discussion of Sibelius symphony recordings here just a
little while ago... try doing a DejaNews "power search" at
http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml on this newsgroup, starting on April
1 and using "Sibelius" as the search word.
>Symphony Nos. 1 & 4/Gibson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra/Chandos
>Symphony No. 2 & Violin Concerto/Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic
>Orchestra/RCA
>Symphony Nos. 3 & 5/Jansons/Olso Philharmonic Orchestra/EMI
>Symphony Nos. 5 (1915 & 1919 versions)/Vanska/Lahti Symphony Orchestra/BIS
I wouldn't toss out Vanska's 5ths, at least. His is the only recording of
the original 1915 version, so if you get really into Sibelius, you'll want
to have it. Also, his cycle is pretty good, overall.
>Note: I just saw Berglund's 5th and 7th (Finlandia) used for $6.99.
>Should I go back and get it?
I'd say for that price, go ahead and get it. I like Berglund's Finlandia
cycle myself, but opinions are definitely divided about it. It's not a
"traditional" approach to Sibelius, so it probably shouldn't be your only
set (or part of one).
--
Jon Bell <jtb...@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
[ Information about newsgroups for beginners: ]
[ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/6882/ ]
dark...@delanet.com
coupling on RCA with the London Symphony - top-notch performances, and
the best RCA sound I've ever heard. And I think Ormandy's budget Second
- vintage Philly sound esp. in the sweeping, propulsive finale - on Sony
was recently rated #1 in a Sibelius Overview in the American Record
Guide.
Darrin Graves wrote:
>
> Hello, Again:
>
> I believe that I may need to trash my Sibelius symphony collection and start over.
> Hastily, I purchased several symphonies without doing any research. Here's what I
> may need to replace:
>
> Symphony Nos. 1 & 4/Gibson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra/Chandos
> Symphony No. 2 & Violin Concerto/Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra/RCA
> Symphony Nos. 3 & 5/Jansons/Olso Philharmonic Orchestra/EMI
> Symphony Nos. 5 (1915 & 1919 versions)/Vanska/Lahti Symphony Orchestra/BIS
>
> I don't own any other of Sibelius' symphonies.
>
> Critiques, opinions and recommendations are welcomed.
>
> Note: I just saw Berglund's 5th and 7th (Finlandia) used for $6.99. Should I go back
> and get it?
>
> Regards,
>
> Darrin Graves
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Raymond Hall
<3720e979....@news.mindspring.com>...
> Hello, Again:
>
> I believe that I may need to trash my Sibelius symphony collection and
start over.
> Hastily, I purchased several symphonies without doing any research.
Here's what I
> may need to replace:
>
> Symphony Nos. 1 & 4/Gibson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra/Chandos
> Symphony No. 2 & Violin Concerto/Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic
Orchestra/RCA
> Symphony Nos. 3 & 5/Jansons/Olso Philharmonic Orchestra/EMI
> Symphony Nos. 5 (1915 & 1919 versions)/Vanska/Lahti Symphony
Orchestra/BIS
>
> I don't own any other of Sibelius' symphonies.
>
> Critiques, opinions and recommendations are welcomed.
>
The Gibson is good, but the same coupling of Maazel's on Decca should be
available. Excellent recording, and topnotch performances. Hey, for $18,
you can get the Maazel set, which includes an excellent 7th.
Collins (good mono), and Bernstein are worth considering. And the Ormandy
2nd and 7th coupling on Sony is not half bad either. The early Davis set
with the BSO is unfortunately let down by poor sound. A crying shame
considering they were made in the mid seventies.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
sca...@ix.netcom.com
elusive 6th symphony.
May I suggest you try Vanska on BIS, Maazel (Sony/Pittsburgh, NOT
Vienna),or Karajan (DGG, not EMI).
--scatterbrain
Darrin Graves wrote:
>
> Hello, Again:
>
> I believe that I may need to trash my Sibelius symphony collection and start over.
> Hastily, I purchased several symphonies without doing any research. Here's what I
> may need to replace:
>
> Symphony Nos. 1 & 4/Gibson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra/Chandos
> Symphony No. 2 & Violin Concerto/Temirkanov/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra/RCA
> Symphony Nos. 3 & 5/Jansons/Olso Philharmonic Orchestra/EMI
> Symphony Nos. 5 (1915 & 1919 versions)/Vanska/Lahti Symphony Orchestra/BIS
>
> I don't own any other of Sibelius' symphonies.
>
> Critiques, opinions and recommendations are welcomed.
>
David Grayshan
reserves of power and wildness for certain passages.
IMO the original recording, under Georg Schneevoigt, remains peerless, a patrician
interpretation, unfortunately rather badly recorded (1929, I believe) and not quite perfect
orchestrally. There are numerous reasons for saying this but to set them out here would
turn this posting into an essay: also I would need a score to give references. I think it
is now on Finlandia or Koch Historical.
Close to this comes Adrian Leaper (!! Yes!! Honestly!!) on Naxos (not the Arte Nova remake,
which is rather bad. I do not understand how a conductor's interpretations can degenerate
like this.). Nearly everything on this record is in place, the recording is a bit
cavernous, but more than acceptable.
HvK is highly praised but not by me. Hollywood Sibelius. Mind you the 1st. Symphony that he
did for EMI in the early 1980's is quite superb, so it's a question of being selective. The
scherzo of the last recording of the 6th was rather good, though not quite so demonic as
the unequalled Schneevoigt.
Anthony Collins' mono on Beulah is also close to the top.
The passage I use for a test of the quality of an interpretation is the "birdsong" passage
at the second half of the second movement. Too rapid here - and most are - and you can
predict that the interpreter just does not understand the work. Also the woodwind have to
sing out above the "rustling" strings in a natural way, yet have time to phrase their
lines. Also for me the tympani at the end of the first movement, just before the quiet
coda, have to ROAR through the rest of the texture (Collins superb here). And again in the
finale (Collins again).
Dunno if this helps.
Cheers! David.
sca...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> According to this list, you have yet to sample the magnificent but
> elusive 6th symphony.
>
> May I suggest you try Vanska on BIS, Maazel (Sony/Pittsburgh, NOT
> Vienna),or Karajan (DGG, not EMI).
>
> --scatterbrain
>
(Snip of previous part of thread)
William H. Pittman
<dark...@delanet.com> wrote:
>For starters, replace that Gibson with Colin Davis' new First/Fourth
>coupling on RCA with the London Symphony - top-notch performances, and
>the best RCA sound I've ever heard.
I heard Sir Colin conduct the Second with the Cleveland Orchestra many,
many years ago. It was spectacular; sounded like it came straight out of
an iceberg above the Arctic Circle.
Has he made a recording of the Second with any such properties?
William H. Pittman
Raymond Hall
<3723527C...@tschan-partner.com>...
It helps a lot David. I agree with you that the 6th, is perhaps the most
impressive of all Sibelius symphonies. In the light of what you have just
said, perhaps you might care to make some recommendations of stereo
performances (given that I have already decided to acquire the Collins
set).
Are sets really the way to go (the Maazel VPO set contains some great
performances, the 4th being especially fine, and the set is very
affordable)?
Actually I am also trying to get hold of Bernstein's set, although I have
my suspicions that it (like Koussy) is going to get branded as some sort of
Hollywoodised Sibelius.
Many thanks in advance.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
David Grayshan
See below.
Raymond Hall wrote:
> (Snip of my text)
> Are sets really the way to go (the Maazel VPO set contains some great
> performances, the 4th being especially fine, and the set is very
> affordable)?
Any complete recorded survey by a great Sibelian is bound to have considerable
merit. It is a question of who to include in that category.
I myself include neither Maazel nor von Karajan nor Bernstein in this category.
I haven't heard the VPO set for some time but I could detect little merit in
Maazel's affected style for that set (I do not know the new cycle, but heard
the 6th. which was way off target).
HvK was a keen conductor of Sibelius from the beginning of his career, grant
him that, but he is largely responsible for the Hollywood Sibelius style that I
mentioned, which others have followed e.g. Rattle, and anyway Herbie left no
complete cycle on record. I consider his recording of the 6th. with the
exception of the scherzo to be completely misconceived. As I said, I liked his
recording of the 1st. on EMI very much indeed.
Recommendable complete sets are very scarce on the ground. Collins, the old
Ehrling (if Finlandia ever get around to bringing it out!), that's about it for
my taste.
Other sets contan individual performances of great merit: Rozshdestvensky's
4th. (oh, hell, I can never spell that guy's name without help), Berglund's
Bournemouth 3rd, 6th. and 7th, Saraste's RCA 3rd, 4th. and 7th, Segerstram's
3rd. all come to mind.
Some of the best choices are from individual discs: Gibson 1st. (Collins),
Monteux 2nd. (just reissued), Ormandy's Sony and RCA 1st, 2nd. and 7th. and his
RCA 5th, all the Koussy's, the Kajanus's and the Schneevoigts.
> Actually I am also trying to get hold of Bernstein's set, although I have
> my suspicions that it (like Koussy)
No, this was HvK, Koussy was brilliant in Sibelius. As a matter of fact, I
prefer his RCA 1950 recording of the second to the 1930's recording. His 5th.
is unsurpassed.
> is going to get branded as some sort of Hollywoodised Sibelius.
Well, to be honest it's a long time since I heard this set and that was not on
original American Columbia LP's (it was a reissued set). The American Columbia
originals were superb products musically (though the surfaces were sometimes
suspect) and the sound of these must have been far superior to the reissues I
heard. Sometimes CD resiisues can be revelatory and maybe these Bernstein
reissues are that. I was not overly impressed by the reissue LP's, but I don't
remember his Hollywoodising these works.
As a matter of fact that younger Lenny was near to a great conductor, you know,
getting incomparable results in some works (e.g. Schumann "Spring" and 4th.
Symphomies, the Brahms and the Beethovens, modern American works etc.
> Many thanks in advance.
>
You're welcome.
> | Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Kuisma
does Koussewitzky also. There is the composers word for both of them. The
Sibelius biographer Erik Tawastsjerna discussed with Sibelius the recordings
of the symphonies when visiting him in 1956. He describes the discussions in
his book "Scenes Historiques" (in finnish).
Sibelius expressed his growing dislike for the finnish-scandinavian
"authentic" tradition. Probably this means the tradition started by Kajanus.
(I don't know wether Ehrling is counted to this.) Then Tawaststjerna states
that the 2nd and 5th by Koussevitzky are unsurpassed. He doesn't quote
Sibelius' words directly here. But then a direct quotation follows:
"Karajan's calm (or sober?) style appeals me greatly. I never can stand
large gestures. You shouldn't express your love by shouting but by
whispering." Sibelius had of course a chance to hear Karajan's recordings of
the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th with the Philharmonia Orchestra but not the 2nd.
best records
Kuisma
David Grayshan kirjoitti viestissä <37244BC2...@tschan-partner.com>...
Matthew B. Tepper
those of us who were (literally) born there.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
David Grayshan
See below.
Kuisma wrote:
> Hollywoodised or not, Karajan has real merits in Sibelius' symphonies as
> does Koussewitzky also. There is the composers word for both of them. The
> Sibelius biographer Erik Tawastsjerna discussed with Sibelius the recordings
> of the symphonies when visiting him in 1956. He describes the discussions in
> his book "Scenes Historiques" (in finnish).
>
> Sibelius expressed his growing dislike for the finnish-scandinavian
> "authentic" tradition. Probably this means the tradition started by Kajanus.
> (I don't know wether Ehrling is counted to this.) Then Tawaststjerna states
> that the 2nd and 5th by Koussevitzky are unsurpassed. He doesn't quote
> Sibelius' words directly here. But then a direct quotation follows:
> "Karajan's calm (or sober?) style appeals me greatly. I never can stand
> large gestures. You shouldn't express your love by shouting but by
> whispering." Sibelius had of course a chance to hear Karajan's recordings of
> the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th with the Philharmonia Orchestra but not the 2nd.
Interesting! I have not read the passage you quote before. But: his having the
chance does not mean that he actually took it (strong implication, of course).
Does anyone know if he actually did this?
I also heard that he was inclined to praise *any* conductor's performances in
communications, even if previously he had expressed a dislike for the
performance in question! He was not going to discourage anyone from performing
his music!
> best records
> Kuisma
>
(Snip)
LP's to you too.
David.
David Grayshan
word describes a style rather accurately, I think Pejorative? If the
cap fits.....
Cheers!
David.
Michael Weston
: The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying to
: those of us who were (literally) born there.
Matthew-
You dis French cinema and fail to read Hollywood as a negative term-
what's your favorite film? Titanic?
(ducking)
michael
Richard Schultz
: The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying to
: those of us who were (literally) born there.
If Hollywood was such a wonderful place, why did you leave?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time." -- The French Knight
Raymond Hall
<7g2dh0$r...@chronicle.concentric.net>...
> The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying to
> those of us who were (literally) born there.
>
I thought all ducks were "hatched" from an egg. Actually, it is a certain
type of film, the Hollywood musical (glossy, slick and precisional), that
is used perjoratively here, in the context of describing performances of
the rather bleak and forbidding landscape that Sibelius painted.
Incidentally, the Hollywood musical, in it's own right, stands as one of
the monuments of American achievement in any art form, this century.
Absolutely unsurpassed for sheer entertainment IMO.
Does that now make you feel a little less annoyed?
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Matthew B. Tepper
I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Matthew B. Tepper <ducky兀deltanet.com> wrote:
>: The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying to
>
>You dis French cinema and fail to read Hollywood as a negative term-
>what's your favorite film? Titanic?
>
>(ducking)
>michael
Never saw it. Try "Casablanca."
Kuisma
When reading the book I referred to I got the impression that he had heard
enough similar performances (domestic; his major source of music were radio
concerts) and was delighted from a different approach. Of course he was very
egocentric and ready to push his music whenever possible. For the same
reason he feared performances which might have negative impact on his
reputation. It is a known story that he didn't allow Schneevoigt's (or,
according to something I read recently, it might have been Beecham's first
attempt) recording of the 4th to be published.
It might be true, that Karajan had already received good press and Sibelius
eagerly followed. Karajan's 4th was actually referred to in the book.
Koussevitzky and his recordings were already forgotten in 1956 (I guess),
which didn't prevent Sibelius from praising them. But why his discontent
with the established "authentic " style? For sure he was discontent with the
attempts to give either nationalistic or naturalistic explanations to his
music, which he always considered as absolute.
LPs, oh yes. I'll rather put my old Sibelius 4th by Karajan and Philharmonia
(Columbia 33CX1125) on the turntable than a better sounding substitute in
the CD player.
Regards
Heikki Kuisma
David Grayshan kirjoitti viestissä <3724C7A6...@tschan-partner.com>...
August Helmbright
duckyş@deltanet.com wrote:
> In article <3725...@news.nwlink.com>, rush...@europa.com pondered what
> I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >: The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying to
> >: those of us who were (literally) born there.
> >
> >Matthew-
> >You dis French cinema and fail to read Hollywood as a negative term-
> >what's your favorite film? Titanic?
> >
> >(ducking)
Was this pun intentional?
>
> Never saw it. Try "Casablanca."
Funny. I would have guessed "Howard the Duck."
--
August Helmbright
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http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
David Grayshan
From your reply I think that there is a small danger that you misunderstood the
reason for and my feelings about my small anecdote, so forgive me if I snip all
your text in order to make A Statement.
1). Nobody on this planet loves Sibelius' music more than I do (humorous
hyperbole).
2). I think Sibelius was a marvellous personality (I am over 50, I have read
many works about Sibelius, so I feel I know a little about him as a person).
3). Therefore I related this small anecdote with some humorous pleasure, not
with disapproval. In fact I laughed when I first heard it. It is so typical.
I especially love another small story where he offered one of his favourite
cigars to an especially honoured guest (I know not who). The aforementioned
guest said words to the effect, "Dear Mr. Sibelius: do you mind if I do not
smoke this, but keep it forever as a memento of you and this visit?".
Whereupon The Great Man said, "OK, but please would you give that cigar back to
me and accept a smaller one in its place!". (He always had financial worries,
and his cigars were expensive...).
I love that story too. I hope it helps you understand better what I meant with
the other story.
As far as I know, it was in fact the Schneevoigt recording of the 4th. Symphony
that he would not approve because of orchestral imperfections.
But also I have the impression somehow that he and Schneevoigt did not get on
well together. Can anyone confirm or repudiate this?
I continue to dislike HvK's approach to Sibelius, preferring Schneevoigt,
Beecham, Koussy, Boult and Ormandy, in addition to a few younger conductors such
as Petri Sakari.
If anyone is still with me: re-hearing the first Berglund set (Bournemouth SO) I
now rate this rather highly as well.
Regards,
David.
Kuisma wrote:
(Snip of all your text, excuses!)
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> duckyþ@deltanet.com wrote:
>> In article <3725...@news.nwlink.com>, rush...@europa.com pondered
>> what I'm pondering as follows...
>> >
>> >Matthew B. Tepper <duckyþ@deltanet.com> wrote:
>> >: The usage of "Hollywood" as a pejorative term is rather annoying
>> >: to those of us who were (literally) born there.
>> >
>> >Matthew-
>> >You dis French cinema and fail to read Hollywood as a negative term-
>> >what's your favorite film? Titanic?
>> >
>> >(ducking)
>
>Was this pun intentional?
>>
>> Never saw it. Try "Casablanca."
>
>Funny. I would have guessed "Howard the Duck."
>--
>August Helmbright
Ick! (Although I do have it on LaserDisc, along with a complete
collection of the eponymous comic books.)
Favorite movies with waterfowl in 'em include "Babe" and "Fly Away
Home"; the former makes heavy use of the "big tune" from Saint-Saëns'
Organ Symphony, which is still worlds away from the Sibelius that I
thought we were originally discussing....
Michael Weston
: > >(ducking)
: Was this pun intentional?
Yes- always spice your insults with sugar, eh?
But I honestly think insults given to Tepper are like water off...
michael
August Helmbright
duckyž@deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
> Favorite movies with waterfowl in 'em include "Babe" and "Fly Away
> Home"; the former makes heavy use of the "big tune" from Saint-Saėns'
> Organ Symphony, which is still worlds away from the Sibelius that I
> thought we were originally discussing....
>
Actually, if we include toon-ducks, I'd vote for the "D" ducks (Daffy and
Donald) as my all time favorites.
August Helmbright
August Helmbright <alhe...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> In article <7g542v$r...@journal.concentric.net>,
> duckyž@deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
>
> > Favorite movies with waterfowl in 'em include "Babe" and "Fly Away
> > Home"; the former makes heavy use of the "big tune" from Saint-Saėns'
> > Organ Symphony, which is still worlds away from the Sibelius that I
> > thought we were originally discussing....
> >
>
> Actually, if we include toon-ducks, I'd vote for the "D" ducks (Daffy and
> Donald) as my all time favorites.
It's probably not net-iquette to reply to one's own post, but in order to
head off an incredible round of silliness (in contrast to the current
sub-thread), I felt obliged to provide the following disclaimer:
Daffy and Donald are my all time favorite toon-ducks, not my all time
favorite Sibelius conductors (toon or flesh).
Lawrence H. Robins
> If anyone is still with me: re-hearing the first Berglund set (Bournemouth SO) I
> now rate this rather highly as well.
Don't worry, when I'm following a thread I don't quit.
Good news for Sibelio-philes in the US: The Berglund/Bournemouth
symphony cycle (Royal Classics label) can be ordered from Tower
for $22. (Well, qualified good news, because Tower doesn't
always deliver on imports that they claim to have). Also
includes En Saga, Pelleas et Melisande, and Lemminkainen Suite.
The tone poems overlap with the 2 CD set by the same forces on
EMI Double FForte.
There are also some interesting cut-outs at Berkshire:
Berglund/Finnish Radio #4 + Panula/Helsinki #5 (Finlandia) $7
Blomstedt/San Francisco #2 + Tapiola, Valse Triste (Decca) $8
Collins/LSO #2 + #6 (Beulah) $10
Jarvi/Gothenberg #6 w. Pelleas & Melisande (BIS) $9
Saraste/Finnish Radio #2 + Cranes, Valse Triste, Night Ride
(BMG) $8
Saraste/Finnish Radio #6 + Scenes Historique Suites 1 and 2
(BMG) $8
entire Segerstam/Danish Radio cycle (Chandos),
5 separate CDs, $5 each
[also Jansons/Oslo Phil. #3 + #5 (EMI) $7 which I heard
recently and didn't care for]
After reading many current and archived posts, I plan
to add the Berglund/Bournemouth set, several of the cut-outs,
and Ormandy #1, #2, #7 and Bernstein #5 (Sony Classics)
to my Sibelius collection. (Not much of a collection yet,
just an incomplete Rattle cycle, which may or may not
keep its place when the new additions arrive.)
Happy listening,
Larry Robins
Raymond Hall
> Dear Heikki,
>
[good stuff snipped for brevity .....]
(Bournemouth SO) I
> now rate this rather highly as well.
>
Is this Bournemouth Berglund on CD yet (or has it been), or were you
listening to LP? I believe others are also waiting to get hold of this
Berglund set. I am rather interested myself. Decisions, decisions .... ;-)
Incidentally, I read (forget the author now), that Sibelius shaved his
head, because he was intolerably vain. Couldn't stand the prospect of a
grey hair appearing apparently. He was probably was the first Nordic punk.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Pasquale58
>I continue to dislike HvK's approach to Sibelius, preferring Schneevoigt,
>Beecham, Koussy, Boult and Ormandy, in addition to a few younger conductors
>such
>as Petri Sakari.
Have you heard Sir Colin Davis on Philips Duo, Sym.'s 3,6 & 7 also vn cto and 3
tone poems Finlandia, Tapiola, Swan of Tuonela.
I am thinking of getting it, good price for 2 CD's are the performances
decent?
Pasquale
Kuisma
Initially I was more trying to defend Karajan than Sibelius. One more reason
for Sibelius to give positive comments on Karajan would be that he
calculated a break through in german speaking world through HvK. Which never
happened.
Kuisma
David Grayshan kirjoitti viestissä <3725FE73...@tschan-partner.com>...
>I continue to dislike HvK's approach to Sibelius, preferring Schneevoigt,
>Beecham, Koussy, Boult and Ormandy, in addition to a few younger conductors
such
>as Petri Sakari.
>
>If anyone is still with me: re-hearing the first Berglund set (Bournemouth
SO) I
>now rate this rather highly as well.
>
David Grayshan
I think we agree totally that HvK was an active proponent of Sibelius' music -
all credit to him for that. He gave one or more of the earliest performances in
Germany of the Sixth, in Aachen, I believe. I do not like his style for these
works but that is a matter of taste.
Also it is quite possible that Sibelius did not like it, despite his praise for
the performances - as you suggest, he would not want to discourage any
non-Finnish conductor, especially one so prominent, from performaing his works.
It is equally possible that he liked HvK's style in his music, as well. One who
was so used to keeping his real self hidden is very difficult to assess.
Sibelius might not be on the lips of all German music-lovers, but I can assure
you that, in my admittedly limited contacts with parts of the German musical
world, there is a great deal of respect for Sibelius, in fact, nobody whom I
have encountered personally has had anything but the highest praise for him ("Un
Grand Maitre" was one opinion from a music teacher). They seem to rate him much
higher than Nielsen, in fact (which might seem a bit odd, surely Nielsen was
more, er, "Germanic"?).
I wonder if an English translation of Eric T's book is available?
Regards,
David.
Kuisma wrote:
> David,
>
> Initially I was more trying to defend Karajan than Sibelius. One more reason
> for Sibelius to give positive comments on Karajan would be that he
> calculated a break through in german speaking world through HvK. Which never
> happened.
>
> Kuisma
>
(Snip)
David Grayshan
Pasquale58 wrote:
> Have you heard Sir Colin Davis on Philips Duo, Sym.'s 3,6 & 7 also vn cto and 3
> tone poems Finlandia, Tapiola, Swan of Tuonela.
Yes. I do not care for them myself, but several contributors to this NG think
highly of them. I do not mean that they are shockingly bad, just nothing special.
He too often misses the point of Sibelius' music for me.
> I am thinking of getting it, good price for 2 CD's are the performances
> decent?
> Pasquale
Well, they are not indecent! But: my recommendation is for the even cheaper (in the
UK!) Royal Classics set with Berglund/Bournemouth SO, at just over £3 per disc,
with a lot of extras (Symphonic Poems etc). These are really rather good and form a
very reliable survey of the whole cycle. I especially like 3,4,6 & 7. And he is
even better in the Symphonic Poems than in the Symphonies.
Regards,
David.
David Grayshan
Raymond Hall wrote:
> David Grayshan <dgra...@tschan-partner.com> wrote in article
> <3725FE73...@tschan-partner.com>...
> > Dear Heikki,
> >
> [good stuff snipped for brevity .....]
> > If anyone is still with me: re-hearing the first Berglund set
> (Bournemouth SO) I
> > now rate this rather highly as well.
> >
>
> Is this Bournemouth Berglund on CD yet (or has it been), or were you
> listening to LP? I believe others are also waiting to get hold of this
> Berglund set. I am rather interested myself. Decisions, decisions .... ;-)
Royal Classics, 5 CD's, UK price around £3 per disc, lots of extras, too,
Sibelius Bargain of the Decade......
> Incidentally, I read (forget the author now), that Sibelius shaved his
> head, because he was intolerably vain. Couldn't stand the prospect of a
> grey hair appearing apparently. He was probably was the first Nordic punk.
There are those who regard his music as being precisely that! (Bald,
punk-like).
> | Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Takashi Kikuchi
: >
: > Actually, if we include toon-ducks, I'd vote for the "D" ducks (Daffy and
: > Donald) as my all time favorites.
:
: Daffy and Donald are my all time favorite toon-ducks, not my all time
: favorite Sibelius conductors (toon or flesh).
I just remembered them playing Liszt's Hungarian Rapsody No. 2 together on
the movie _Who Flamed Roger Rabbit?_ They were chaotic, comical, and
definatley hilarious. I would never imagine them (or any cartoon
character) conduct the introvert music of Sibelius, but some extraveganza
like Wagner and Rossini. Chuck Jones are responsible for putting many
classical music in Warner and MGM (Tom and Jerry, at least) animation.
Now back to the original topic... :)
Takashi M. Kikuchi
August Helmbright
news:7garbe$pv$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu...
>
> Now back to the original topic... :)
What was it, anyway?
------
August Helmbright
Matthew B. Tepper
hallr...@bigpond.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Many thanks for this information. I usually use ABsound in Vancouver
>(they have a good search engine),
Hwat!? Their search engine bites the big one! Or have we begun to
reside in parallel but entirely different universes?
Raymond Hall
> >
> > Is this Bournemouth Berglund on CD yet (or has it been), or were you
> > listening to LP? I believe others are also waiting to get hold of this
> > Berglund set. I am rather interested myself. Decisions, decisions ....
;-)
>
> Royal Classics, 5 CD's, UK price around £3 per disc, lots of extras, too,
> Sibelius Bargain of the Decade......
>
Many thanks for this information. I usually use ABsound in Vancouver (they
have a good search engine), and prices are very good. Marvellous news to
know this Berglund / Bournemouth is available, and has completely solved my
dilemma. I would expect MDT also to have these?
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>
Raymond Hall
<7gbiqr$g...@journal.concentric.net>...
> In article <01be92aa$863ea2a0$926b868b@hp-customer>,
> hallr...@bigpond.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
> >
> >(they have a good search engine),
>
> reside in parallel but entirely different universes?
>
Well, I haven't been to many other sites apart from ABsound and MDT, so
cannot really make comparisons. BTW, I e-mailed MDT today to get a quote on
the Sibelius Berglund / Bournemouth set (5 CDs), and within hours they had
responded with an e-mail. 14.89 UK Pounds + postage. Quick response I
would say, and confirms your good reports about MDT.
| Ray Hall <hallr...@bigpond.com>