Handel's Messiah: Best Recording Available?
Spencer Secoy
recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
help to me.
Thank you,
Spencer J. Secoy
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Paul Kintzele
Spencer Secoy wrote:
>
> Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
> recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
> have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
> countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
> help to me.
I generally prefer Handel (and baroque music generally) played on period
instruments, so my recommendations will reflect that. My top choice and
favorite regardless of price is McCreesh/Gabrieli Consort & Players
(Archiv), a bracing performance with an excellent chorus, superb
soloists, and a dramatic interpretation from McCreesh. Coming in at a
very close second is Pinnock/English Concert (also on Archiv), which has
the wonderful Anne Sofie von Otter (as well as the rather unwieldy
booming basso profondo of John Tomlinson). Unfortunately, both of those
are at full price, but if you join BMG, you can get the McCreesh at a
significant discount.
And two anti-recommendations: Christie/Les Arts Florissants (Harmonia
Mundi) received some lavish praise in Gramophone, but to me it sounds
rather unengaged; it has recently been re-released at a rather cheap
price, but I would avoid it--all it has going for it is the mellifluous
singing of Andreas Scholl. Gardiner/English Baroque Soloists (Philips)
doesn't have the intensity that I've come to expect from this conductor,
and the chorus for some reason doesn't sound as glorious as they
normally do, so I'd pass over that one as well.
Paul
David Hurwitz
message news:170d7ce9...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com...
> Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
> recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
> have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
> countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
> help to me.
Modern Instruments:
Davis/Philips
Mackerras/EMI
Shaw/Telarc
"Authentic" Instruments
Christie/Harmonia Mundi
Gardiner/Philips
Pinnock/Archiv
Take your pick!
--
David Hurwitz
Executive Editor
http://www.classicstoday.com
dhur...@classicstoday.com
JKauff001
once and sold it - soft edged conducting with some flabby singing as well. I
bought the Christie because of the cheap price and thought it was dramatic with
excellent singing. So there you are. Wolf
Michael Smith
musicologist, he can't really conduct. Many of the woolly
entries in his performances are to do with poor cues.
Messiah is a work that will respond well to many differnt
approaches. A listener's choice may be as much to do with
edition as performance, and for this reason as much as
performance I would go for Hogwood, which favours the final
Foundling Hospital version. This is a version clearly written by
a man of the theatre, with a truncated Pastoral Symphony
and 'Why do the Nations', and the performance still stands up
when compared to the best modern versions. Hogwood also does not
try to 'correct' Handel's word settings, so we get 'in-CORR-up-
TI-ble' in 'The Trumpet Shall Sound', rather than an attempt to
mangle the rhythms to suit the words.
If you MUST have an absolutely complete version, McGegan
includes, as appendices, all the many variants, but in rather
woolly performances.
As an interesting variant, Hermann Max gives Mozart's classical
gloss on Handel - not a recording I'd be without.
And if you absolutely have to have modern instruments, Marriner
is very good.
Michael
Jaime Jean
Orchestra on Hyperion.
Jaime
"Simon Roberts" <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:89n261$n0j$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> PK (pro...@cybercable.fr) wrote:
>
> : Fast, before Simon gives you his most enlightened opinion
>
> Flattery will get you... well, I'm not sure, really.
>
> (I
> : frankly don't remember which one is his favourite)
>
> Probably McCreesh
>
> , I most
> : strongly recommend one of the cheapest versions available :
> : the first Marriner on Decca (Ameling, Reynolds, Langridge,
> : Howells). The solo singing has its little problems (although
> : Ameling is angelic and Langridge one of the most noble and
> : eloquent ever), but the chorus is fantastic, the tempos just
> : right, and it has a general aura of an "occasion" not many
> : Messiahs capture.
>
> I very much like this too (I love the -- probably "inauthentic" use of
> appoggiaturas in "For unto us"), but feel constrained to point out a
> few odd features of the edition he uses. First, the ritornello if
> "Every valley" has a couple of repetitive bars added; second, the bass
> version of "But who may abide" that he uses bears no resemblance to the
> more familiar one (whether sung by a bass, the usual alto, or a soprano);
> to these ears it sounds relatively clumsy and unpersuasive, but that may
> be just because I'm so used to the normal version. Third (this one drives
> me nuts), it omits a few -- to me, crucial -- bars in the "blessings and
> honour" section of "Worthy is the lamb:" the thrilling tension-mounting
> sequence that is resolved with the thundered-out tutti unison is
> completely absent and instead the music lurches straight into the unison
> and by comparison sounds relatively trivial. (I can't find my score to
> explain just what is missing, but said lurch occurs at 2:04 in the final
> track of the second disc, in case you want to investigate what I'm
> babbling on about.) It may sound like a small point, but for me it kills
> the drama of that chorus. Aside from that....
>
> Otherwise, you might like to hear the
> : excerpts recorded by Minkowski (there is more but
> : unpublished) for a rather ghastly movie by William Klein (DG
> : 459 615-2).
>
> How tantalizing!
>
> Simon
James Kahn
>Spencer Secoy wrote:
>>
>> Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
>> recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
>> have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
>> countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
>> help to me.
>Fast, before Simon gives you his most enlightened opinion (I
>frankly don't remember which one is his favourite), I most
>strongly recommend one of the cheapest versions available :
>the first Marriner on Decca (Ameling, Reynolds, Langridge,
>Howells). The solo singing has its little problems (although
>Ameling is angelic and Langridge one of the most noble and
>eloquent ever), but the chorus is fantastic, the tempos just
>right, and it has a general aura of an "occasion" not many
>Messiahs capture.
I second this recommendation. I also prefer the London version
that is used in this recording to the Dublin version. I don't
find noticeable "problems" in the solo singing, either.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
PK
>
> Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
> recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
> have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
> countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
> help to me.
Fast, before Simon gives you his most enlightened opinion (I
frankly don't remember which one is his favourite), I most
strongly recommend one of the cheapest versions available :
the first Marriner on Decca (Ameling, Reynolds, Langridge,
Howells). The solo singing has its little problems (although
Ameling is angelic and Langridge one of the most noble and
eloquent ever), but the chorus is fantastic, the tempos just
right, and it has a general aura of an "occasion" not many
Messiahs capture. Otherwise, you might like to hear the
excerpts recorded by Minkowski (there is more but
unpublished) for a rather ghastly movie by William Klein (DG
459 615-2).
PK
Simon Roberts
: Fast, before Simon gives you his most enlightened opinion
Flattery will get you... well, I'm not sure, really.
(I
: frankly don't remember which one is his favourite)
Probably McCreesh
, I most
: strongly recommend one of the cheapest versions available :
: the first Marriner on Decca (Ameling, Reynolds, Langridge,
: Howells). The solo singing has its little problems (although
: Ameling is angelic and Langridge one of the most noble and
: eloquent ever), but the chorus is fantastic, the tempos just
: right, and it has a general aura of an "occasion" not many
: Messiahs capture.
I very much like this too (I love the -- probably "inauthentic" use of
appoggiaturas in "For unto us"), but feel constrained to point out a
few odd features of the edition he uses. First, the ritornello if
"Every valley" has a couple of repetitive bars added; second, the bass
version of "But who may abide" that he uses bears no resemblance to the
more familiar one (whether sung by a bass, the usual alto, or a soprano);
to these ears it sounds relatively clumsy and unpersuasive, but that may
be just because I'm so used to the normal version. Third (this one drives
me nuts), it omits a few -- to me, crucial -- bars in the "blessings and
honour" section of "Worthy is the lamb:" the thrilling tension-mounting
sequence that is resolved with the thundered-out tutti unison is
completely absent and instead the music lurches straight into the unison
and by comparison sounds relatively trivial. (I can't find my score to
explain just what is missing, but said lurch occurs at 2:04 in the final
track of the second disc, in case you want to investigate what I'm
babbling on about.) It may sound like a small point, but for me it kills
the drama of that chorus. Aside from that....
Otherwise, you might like to hear the
: excerpts recorded by Minkowski (there is more but
: unpublished) for a rather ghastly movie by William Klein (DG
: 459 615-2).
How tantalizing!
Simon
Michael Wolverton
Spencer Secoy <bigwheelran...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
>recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
>have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
>countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
>help to me.
Of the ones I know, Pinnock/Archiv would be my recommendation. Two
other fine choices are Gardiner/Phillips and Parrott/EMI (now on
Virgin?). Not recommended are Shaw/Telarc, Davis/Phillips,
Marriner/Phillips (his second one), Pearlman/Telarc, and Solti/London.
-Michael
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton "Is that clear?"
m...@cs.stanford.edu "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Roberts
: Hello! I would like some opinions as to what is the "best"
: recording of Handel's "Messiah." (Cost being no object.) I
: have seen numerous copies by numerous conductors from numerous
: countries. Any help wading through this sea would be of great
: help to me.
This is a vast topic complicated by such questions as HIP vs modern and,
within each, which edition. (Also, your question is often asked, so you
may want to check deja news.)
The range of performance types is vast, not just a matter of HIP vs modern
but, within modern, whether you want a really old-fashioned, big-scale
effort with inauthentic orchestration such as was the norm until the
1950s-60s. If you want the latter, I can't help you. Beecham's stereo
recording is the usual recommendation, but for all its alleged exciting
vulgarity, I find it tame -- what's the point of that lavish orchestration
if those foreign instruments are to be blown and hit so decorously? I
don't like any other performance of that type I've heard either,
including the much-bally-hooed Sargent performance on Dutton with Saint
Isobel Baillie (who, among her other flaws, simply can't sing "rejoice
greatly").
So before I step on too many toes I'll move on to what might be termed
"modern stylish", that is to say, smallish scale forces, no extraneous
instruments, and some attention to scholarship. Several of these appeal
to me, Mackerras/EMI perhaps the most, though the ornaments his (generally
excellent) soloists (including the underrated Elizabeth Harwood) use may
sound a bit anachronistic today, and the fruity vibrato of his choir may
seem a bit much. Rilling/Haenssler (he's recorded this more than once,
one of them being the German Mozart edition; I don't recommend that --
see below) is perhaps the best since Mackerras's (Quasthof helps), though
Andrew Davis/EMI is also (surprisingly) good (great soloists too). I
would note that Mackerras's is very cheap, as is Marriner's (see other
posts). I don't like Somary's as much as these, but for me it's
indispensable because of the participation of Margaret Price (at her
stunning best) and, slightly less so, Yvonne Minton.
There are several recommendable HIP versions. My favorite is probably
McCreesh's, for much the same reasons already given by Paul. I would note
that his is one of the recordings to incorporate horns (they double the
trumpets in the trumpet and drum choruses), but the only one to make
proper use of them -- Hogwood's might as well have stayed home, they're so
tame and inconsequential. Pearlman/Telarc may be the safest HIP
recommendation, though, because he has none of McCreesh's "mannerisms" --
some find his tempi too fast, his manner too dramatic -- but is
nevertheless characterful enough and very well executed and recorded
across the board. So is Gardiner's, though in the U.S. this still seems
to occupy three full priced discs. He doesn't have McCreesh's flair, and
his countertenor (Brett) is wretched, but otherwise there's little to
complain about (and, in Margaret Marshall, one of the best sopranos on any
recording).
Few of the other HIP recordings are as appealing across the board as these
three. Christie's has excellent soloists, but his conducting is rather
tame, and the whole thing is undermined by the sound, which robs much of
the music-making of immediacy. The much-vaunted Pinnock is well enough
executed, I suppose (except for the bass soloist, who's too huffy/puffy),
but his conducting is pretty bland; if it weren't for his assertive and
imaginative timpanist, the big choruses would sound pretty flat.
Hogwood's is the recommendation of you want an all-male choir, and they do
make a lovely ethereal sound, but the whole thing is awfully twee --
everything aimiably bumbles along at much the same tempo and conveying
much the same mood, the boys can't articulate the fast music properly, the
brass and timpani make little impact, Judith Nelson is wretched -- but
then Kirkby's "For he is like a refiner's fire" is pretty stunning.
Hickox is a good version overall, not particularly distinctive
interpretatively, and it wears its HIPness lightly, but it does feature
two outstanding soloists, Joan Rogers and Bryn Terfel.
Should you want to try the Mozart edition (I think his orchestration much
inferior to Handel's, with all those horns and clarinets getting in the
way, etc.), by far the liveliest is Hermann Max's on German EMI, but you
probably won't be able to find it and I really don't think Mozart's
edition is worth making the effort. Should you want to hear it in German
but without Mozart, Marriner/EMI (partly for his soloists, who include
Fassbaender) is one of the best.
And now a decidedly idiosyncratic recommendation -- or at least object
of affection; not sure I would recommend it: I'm very fond of
Harnoncourt's, which in some ways is the most distinctive ever recorded.
Only one of the soloists is a native English speaker, and this is
glaringly obvious (I don't care, but most people seem to). More
important, though, is the style, which features far more legato playing
than any other HIPster would even imagine -- and, what's more, highly
moulded legato playing. Much of the music ends up sounding more gentle
and relaxed than it usually does (though when the music seems to demand
the opposite -- For he is like a refiner's fire, for instance -- he's as
savage as anyone, if not more so, the effect exaggerated by the contrast).
It's cheap, and if you're curious....
There are of course lots more, but I think that's enough for now. I will,
however, make a negative recommendation: no matter how cheap you find it,
avoid the recording by a Cleveland group called, inappropriately,
"Apollo's Fire" -- an amateurish (in the bad sense) HIP performance that's
about as bad as it gets.
Simon
Simon Roberts
: If you MUST have an absolutely complete version, McGegan
: includes, as appendices, all the many variants, but in rather
: woolly performances.
"Rather woolly"? You're awfully generous....
: As an interesting variant, Hermann Max gives Mozart's classical
: gloss on Handel - not a recording I'd be without.
Glad to see someone else who has not only heard of it but likes it!
: And if you absolutely have to have modern instruments, Marriner
: is very good.
Yes, but not his dreadful remake on Philips.
Simon
The Melsons
curious about the plush Victorian approach so popular in the first
half of the 20th century. It's a beautiful performance, sounding
amazingly good for its age in Dutton's mastering. Isobel Baillie may
sound a bit quaint, but she is so earnest I find her singing
appealing. I keep thinking as I listen to her of the title of her
autobiography, "Never Sing Louder Than Lovely."
I like this version much more than either of Sargent's stereo
recordings.
Mark Melson
On 3 Mar 2000 01:28:41 GMT, si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon
PK
>
> PK (pro...@cybercable.fr) wrote:
>
> : Fast, before Simon gives you his most enlightened opinion
>
> Flattery will get you... well, I'm not sure, really.
I'm not sure either where I wanted it to get me... But what
if it wasn't flattery, huh? What then?
> (I
> : frankly don't remember which one is his favourite)
>
> Probably McCreesh
A little soft-edged for me, but most successful otherwise.
Probably the best HIP.
You have mentioned the only real problems I have with this
version, indeed - but all these choices are "authentic"
(there is an incredible amount of "authentic" versions of
The Messiah), and the interpretation seems to me far above
the Davis and Mackerras which are the direct concurrents
here, especially as far as the choral singing is concerned.
Especially since the big choral concurrent (Gardiner) is
decidedly thinking of something else doing this one.
> Otherwise, you might like to hear the
> : excerpts recorded by Minkowski (there is more but
> : unpublished) for a rather ghastly movie by William Klein (DG
> : 459 615-2).
>
> How tantalizing!
The worst part is you have to see the movie (with eyes
closed, if you know what's good for you) to hear more of the
music than there is on the CD (with quite a bunch of
soloists : Dawson, Heaston, Kozena, Hellekant, Asawa,
Ainsley - you would love him this time! - Smythe,
Bannatyne-Scott). And you'll hear the only Allegro Alleluia
on records (makes a difference...). Unfortunately, it has
been recorded in rather below-par circumstances (for film,
not for CD, in a bad studio) and the sound isn't as good as
the performance deserves. But it's all you might expect :
just as revelatory and infuriating (for some) as you hope.
PK
PK
>
> Michael Smith (michaelsmith...@hotmail.com.invalid) wrote:
>
> : If you MUST have an absolutely complete version, McGegan
> : includes, as appendices, all the many variants, but in rather
> : woolly performances.
>
> "Rather woolly"? You're awfully generous....
It's a big problem, as with most McGegans : they're just
"documents", but as interpretations, they're simply
non-existing.
> : And if you absolutely have to have modern instruments, Marriner
> : is very good.
>
> Yes, but not his dreadful remake on Philips.
A very interesting case of a piece of music "dying" or
better "having died" in a conductor's mind.
PK
John Montgomery
it quite a bit at the time, but I haven't heard it in 20 years or so,
and it never made it to CD AKIK.
John Montgomery
MarkZ1000
>Orchestra on Hyperion.
>
>Jaime
Have to agree with Jaime on this. My favorite of all time is the Koopman with
the Sixteen. It's completely entertaining. The Christophers/Sixteen is
basically the same, but a little more solemn than the Koopman. I just picked
up the Christophers/Sixteen/Hyperion in a cut-out bin at Tower really cheap.
Glad I did.
Mark Zimmerman
MarkZ1000
>
>Davis/Philips
>Mackerras/EMI
>Shaw/Telarc
>
Well, I'll have to give the Davis another listen to. Mebbe it's just that I
don't like the piece performed on Modern Instruments.
Mark Zimmerman
Simon Roberts
: The Harnoncourt - is it with a Stockholm choir? Recorded at least 15
: years ago? If so, I listened to it at the time - a live transmission
: from the Stockholm Berwald Hall.
: I thought I had never heard such a strange rendering, not at all to my
: liking. It is retransmitted now and then over the Swedish Radio, so
: there must be some people who likes it. And now our venerable Simon
: Roberts writes fondly about it - I will have to give it another try -
: I think I have it on cassettes somewhere, and these will have to be
: dug out. (I am not sure if they are exactly the same versions,
: perhaps a recording was made separately.)
The recording issued by Teldec is live, but I don't know whether it's the
same performance you heard broadcast or compiled from different
performances or.... I should say that the first time I heard it I was
extremely disappointed; in fact I just plain hated it. I bought it
expecting Harnoncourt to be in aggressive mode, which of course he isn't.
I returned the LPs and didn't try it again until years later when I found
the initial three disc CD release cut-out. Umpteen disappointing (in
different ways) Messiahs later it seemed more interesting to me than most
and now I like it. I'm not at all surprised that some (most?) don't.
: Another recording I think has not been mentioned is one on EMI
: conducted by David Willcocks, and with choir Trebles; J Bowman (alto),
: R Tear (tenor), B Luxon (bass). This, together with the EMI Andrew
: Davis Toronto recording belong to my favorites. None are HIP.
I rather like that Willcocks version too, though I can't tell if it's only
for nostalgic reasons; it's the first one I ever owned.
Simon
Olaf
years ago? If so, I listened to it at the time - a live transmission
from the Stockholm Berwald Hall.
I thought I had never heard such a strange rendering, not at all to my
liking. It is retransmitted now and then over the Swedish Radio, so
there must be some people who likes it. And now our venerable Simon
Roberts writes fondly about it - I will have to give it another try -
I think I have it on cassettes somewhere, and these will have to be
dug out. (I am not sure if they are exactly the same versions,
perhaps a recording was made separately.)
Another recording I think has not been mentioned is one on EMI
conducted by David Willcocks, and with choir Trebles; J Bowman (alto),
R Tear (tenor), B Luxon (bass). This, together with the EMI Andrew
Davis Toronto recording belong to my favorites. None are HIP.
Olaf
On 3 Mar 2000 01:28:41 GMT, si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon
Roberts) wrote:
Olaf
Philip Peters
Simon Roberts wrote:
> Olaf (olaf....@mailbox.swipnet.se) wrote:
> : The Harnoncourt - is it with a Stockholm choir? Recorded at least 15
> : years ago? If so, I listened to it at the time - a live transmission
> : from the Stockholm Berwald Hall.
It's with the Stockholm Kammerkoren. Recorded in 1982. Haven't listened to it
for ages but I now will as I'm intrigued by your and Simon's opinions.
Philip
>
>
>
> :