Igor Markevitch -- Terrorist?
D Krause
following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
"The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer, is being
posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
Of course, I'm not sure what it says about the Italian police, that
they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
crime took place.
Happy listening.
D Krause
<37aa4106...@news.wish.net>:
>Well, in a similar vein one could start a thread about
>Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
>amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
>Does it matter?
I'm not saying that it "matters," at least not in musical terms; I
esteem Markevitch very highly as both conductor and composer. And
frankly, my politics are probably closer to his than not. But when
it comes to talking about personalities and politics -- which can be
an interesting part of the musical world -- then there's a big
difference between a political "sympathizer" or "opportunist" (which
terms can be applied to someone like Furtwaengler only by those with
little conception of the nature of living in a totalitarian society)
and someone who allegedly aids and abets a violent crime in an open,
democratic society.
Happy listening.
Eltjo Meijer
>
>If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
>left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
>party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
>Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
>
Well, in a similar vein one could start a thread about
Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
Does it matter?
Eltjo
Raymond Hall
>
> Speaking of politically involved conductors, how many of you saw the
> following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
>
> "The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer, is being
> posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
> revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
> Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
> that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
> interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
>
> left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
> party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
> Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
>
> they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
> crime took place.
>
> Happy listening.
Interesting to note that Igor Markevitch died an Italian citizen in
Antibes in 1983. An anecdote about Stravinsky and Elie Gagnebin,
enjoying a beer at the bar Pleyel, spotted Markevitch in the crowd, and
Stravinsky growled, rolling his 'r's in an alarming way:'I don't want to
have anything to do with that dreadful Bolshevik; when he speaks, Hell
speaks through him....'
After the war, owing to Markevitch's intense devotion to Stravinsky's
works, relations between the two, supposedly became quite cordial.
Regards,
Ray Hall, Sydney
PGoldst515
>Well, in a similar vein one could start a thread about
>Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
>amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
One could . . . one has . . . let's not.
Paul Goldstein
Matthew B. Tepper
pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Speaking of politically involved conductors, how many of you saw the
>following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
>
>"The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer, is being
>posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
>revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
>Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
>that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
>interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
>
>If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
>left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
>party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
>Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
>
>Of course, I'm not sure what it says about the Italian police, that
>they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
>crime took place.
>
>Happy listening.
Yeah, right, and Rossano Brazzi (you know, the guy who played the Ezio
Pinza role in the *film* version of "South Pacific") was in on the plot
to assassinate Pope John Paul II. Sure.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Francesco Giovannoni
D Krause wrote in message <8E19A7AF...@news.europa.com>...
>Speaking of politically involved conductors, how many of you saw the
>following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
>
>"The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer, is being
>posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
>revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
>Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
>that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
>interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
>
>If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
>left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
>party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
>Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
>
>Of course, I'm not sure what it says about the Italian police, that
>they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
>crime took place.
Part of the reason for this is that the story is really highly
unsubstantiated. I have been following it somewhat closely: the story broke
out at the beginning of June, it stayed on the italian headlines for 5-6
days and suddently disappeared. Last time I heard, Rome's equivalent to the
US district attorney has expressed strong doubts that these are nothing more
than rumors. I am really surprised (am I?) that the BBC music magazine would
represent the connection Markevitch-Red Brigades as a given whereas it is
very far from being extablished.
Francesco
emf
D Krause wrote:
> Speaking of politically involved conductors, how many of you saw the
> following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
>
> "The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer,
This news is as old as three months at least here in Italy, where
Markevitch had home (in Florence). There was a certain noise for a
while, but after all that noise no more news were given, neither to
definetely confirm nor to reject the news. However the BBC Magazine was
really the latest...to know.
E.
John Carter
Some may remember Edwin Blubberfields, the northern composer and
conductor.Quite early he became involved with the Scunthorpe and Goole
Independence Movement.However he tried to spread the activity to Hull/ "The
Cod Symphony" "Give me Liberty or give me Hake>""Little Serenade for Fish
Gutters" He was arrested in the 60s for his part in a plot to nail kippers
under the seats in the House of Lords which resulted in the premature burial
of seven members.
.There then followed a period of exile in the villa of a demented countess
near Nice,where he produced the work he is now remembered for."Pilchards are
born free but everywhere they are in tins!"There followed a break with the
countess over claims of genocide through the eating of caviar.
His last days were spent in poverty in a Paris garret attempting to rescue
bouillabaisse leading to his death at thehands of two fish chefs.History has
not dealt kindly with Blubberfield though is performances with the
Fishguard Philhakemonic are still remembered by all who heard him conduct
Stanfords "The Fisherman of Loch Neagh, and what he caught/"(Ramsden
Records}
John Carter Barsoom
emf <chez_to...@mail.geocities.com> wrote in message
news:37AA8E33...@mail.geocities.com...
kapel...@my-deja.com
rese...@altavista.net (D Krause) wrote:
> Speaking of politically involved conductors, how many of you saw the
> following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
>
> posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
> revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
> Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
> that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
> interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
>
> If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
> left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
> party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
> Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
>
> Of course, I'm not sure what it says about the Italian police, that
> they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
> crime took place.
>
>
Do let me know of any more terroists who conduct the Rite of Spring as
well as Markevitch.
marc
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
kapel...@my-deja.com
> >
> >following squib in the latest BBC Music Magazine:
> >
> >"The late Igor Markevitch, conductor and composer, is being
> >posthumously investigated by Italian magistrates. It has been
> >revealed that the musician played a key role in the 1978 Red
> >Brigades' kidnap of former prime minister Aldo Moro. It is claimed
> >that Markevitch sheltered Red Brigades leaders and helped to
> >interrogate Moro, who was later found dead."
> >
> >If true, I'm sure that we'd all have to agree that as far as rowdy
> >left-wing activity is concerned, Igor way outdid Lenny's cocktail
> >party reception for the Black Panthers, famously recounted in Tom
> >Wolfe's "Radical Chic" piece.
> >
> >Of course, I'm not sure what it says about the Italian police, that
> >they're getting on Markevitch's case a couple of decades after the
> >crime took place.
> >
> >Happy listening.
>
Ezio
> Pinza role in the *film* version of "South Pacific") was in on the
plot
> to assassinate Pope John Paul II. Sure.
>
Marc
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
> My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> "Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
>
>
D Krause
news:7of71t$hfo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Do let me know of any more terroists who conduct the Rite of Spring as
> well as Markevitch.
There aren't many _non_-terrorists who conducted the Rite of Spring as well
as Markevitch; that's one of my favorite versions. And frankly, if hanging
out with terrorists and Black Panthers is what got Igor's and Lenny's Rite
of Spring chops up to that level, it should be made part of the coursework
at conducting school.
Happy listening.
Luca Sabbatini
the Orchestre de la Suisse romande, and it sounded like the end of the
world. I know many people who are still under shock because of that
specific
performance. This is true terrorism, no doubt.
LS
Bob Lombard
>under the seats in the House of Lords which resulted in the premature
burial
>of seven members.
>
If the same act were done in either house of the U.S. Congress, there would
be a stink but no burials; the members are so seldom in their seats.
bl
Matthew B. Tepper
>
As if there isn't enough stink there already?
Raymond Hall
Wow. I am impressed - must have been some concert. Wonder if a tape of
this is lying around? Markevitch knew this score backwards.
Regards,
Ray Hall, Sydney
Simon Roberts
Eltjo Meijer
>>Well, in a similar vein one could start a thread about
>>Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
>>amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
>>Does it matter?
>I'm not saying that it "matters," at least not in musical terms;
Which is what I meant implicitly with the ?.
>I esteem Markevitch very highly as both conductor and composer.
I have his version of Berlioz' La damnation de Faust which I like a
lot and of Mozart's Coronation Mass which is OK (both on DG). I have
not heard his own music, all of which he wrote, if I am informed
correctly, before he turned 30.
>And frankly, my politics are probably closer to his than not. But when
>it comes to talking about personalities and politics -- which can be
>an interesting part of the musical world -- then there's a big
>difference between a political "sympathizer" or "opportunist" (which
>terms can be applied to someone like Furtwaengler only by those with
>little conception of the nature of living in a totalitarian society)
Off topic, I guess, and Goldhagen would disagree with you, but I hope
you did not refer to me as the "someone" since I am reasonably well
informed about Nazi-society (it happens to interest me and
consequently I own and have read a substantial amount of literature on
this subject). There is imho an important difference between a small
time opportunist/survivor like Karajan and a character like Boehm who
twice succeeded colleagues who had fled their respective countries
(Busch and Walter). The questions then are: what was necessary to
survive, when did blind ruthless ambition take over and which
conductors actively supported the regime and/or the Nazi-movement
before it took power. However, I do not consider this controversial
and emotive subject very suitable for this newsgroup. Besides, I
assume the question of German and Austrian conductors during the
Nazi-era has been debated ad infinitum and ad nauseum here already
several times long before I joined the newsgroup (which is not a
reason to not raise the subject again because new people join and
others leave the group continiously.
>and someone who allegedly aids and abets a violent crime in an open,
>democratic society.
(Definitely off topic)
I think we do not disagree fundamentally here. Imho our so called
open, liberal (in the non-american meaning of the word) and capitalist
democratic society is not so free and democratic after all....However,
resorting to terrorist violence is somewhat drastic.
Eltjo Meijer
Eltjo Meijer
>>Well, in a similar vein one could start a thread about
>>Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
>>amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
>
>One could . . . one has . . . let's not.
Are you the unofficial censor? Many subjects have been raised several
times, as can be expected in a dynamic group where people join and
leave all the time. How often has their been a debate about the best
Beethoven 5th (composer X xx-th) performance?
Regards
Jeffrey Smith
wrote:
Paul is right to the extent that this is a recorded music ng, and we
have had very heated discussions on the subject before.
However, there are still many facts, as opposed to stories, which have
not yet surfaced regarding the behaviour of various musicians in the
Nazi era. Anything which will either exonerate or condemn these
musicians is welcome as long as it adds to the debate rather than
rehash old accusations.
Jeffrey Smith.
Matthew B. Tepper
jrs...@beckman.demon.co.uk pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>However, there are still many facts, as opposed to stories, which have
>not yet surfaced regarding the behaviour of various musicians in the
>Nazi era. Anything which will either exonerate or condemn these
>musicians is welcome as long as it adds to the debate rather than
>rehash old accusations.
Supposedly, Russian composer Lev Knipper was trained as an assassin, and
was supposed to target Hitler should he ever get to Moscow.
Luca Sabbatini
Raymond Hall wrote...
>
> Wow. I am impressed - must have been some concert. Wonder if a tape of
> this is lying around? Markevitch knew this score backwards.
It was available years ago on the Swiss label Cascavelle, coupled with
Markévitch own "Psaume" (VEL 2004, oop). As Cascavelle has been recently
taken over by a Swiss distributor, this CD might well be released again
soon. I have to warn you that the sound recording doesn't quite match
the quality of this unforgettable performance.
LS
D Krause
news:7oiqb6$h...@chronicle.concentric.net...
> Supposedly, Russian composer Lev Knipper was trained as an assassin, and
> was supposed to target Hitler should he ever get to Moscow.
Probably by dropping a piano on him.
Seriously, though, it's entirely possible that Knipper was trained to do the
deed, as he did spend a big part of his career with the Red Army; the skimpy
bio notes on Melodiya MCD 163 don't mention anything about assassin
training, though, so I'd be interested in knowing what the source is on that
bit.
The Melodiya disc has Knipper's Symphonietta for Strings and Concert Poem
for Cello & Orchestra on it, and they're really excellent pieces of music.
They're also some of the best recorded music I've ever heard from the former
Soviet archives, and dating from a period, late seventies, when Melodiya
sound quality could often be regrettable, to put it mildly. Worth
acquiring.
Happy listening.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>news:7oiqb6$h...@chronicle.concentric.net...
>
>> Supposedly, Russian composer Lev Knipper was trained as an assassin,
>> and was supposed to target Hitler should he ever get to Moscow.
>
>Probably by dropping a piano on him.
>
>Seriously, though, it's entirely possible that Knipper was trained to
>do the deed, as he did spend a big part of his career with the Red
>Army; the skimpy bio notes on Melodiya MCD 163 don't mention anything
>about assassin training, though, so I'd be interested in knowing what
>the source is on that bit.
Some former KGB honcho who published his memoirs a couple of years ago.
Of course, maybe he was getting paid by the word, so he could have made
up some outlandish stories to fill up the spaces.
>The Melodiya disc has Knipper's Symphonietta for Strings and Concert
>Poem for Cello & Orchestra on it, and they're really excellent pieces
>of music. They're also some of the best recorded music I've ever heard
>from the former Soviet archives, and dating from a period, late
>seventies, when Melodiya sound quality could often be regrettable, to
>put it mildly. Worth acquiring.
>
>Happy listening.
I have a "Concerto-Monologue in C" (could this perhaps be the same work
as the "Concert Poem" you mention?) performed by Rostropovich, with
Rozhdestvensky/USSR Symphony O on Russian Disc RD CD 11 111. Very nice
work, too. Did this make it into the big Slava box on EMI?
D Krause
> I have a "Concerto-Monologue in C" (could this perhaps be the same work
> as the "Concert Poem" you mention?)
Is there a date given for it? The date for the Concert Poem is 1971.
> performed by Rostropovich, with
> Rozhdestvensky/USSR Symphony O on Russian Disc RD CD 11 111.
For the Concert Poem on Melodiya, it's someone named N. Shakhovskaya, with
the Moscow Conservatoire Chamber Orchestra, cond. by M. Teryan. Runs about
14 and a half minutes.
Happy listening.
Old Geezer
news:7okjfv$591$1...@news1.sunrise.ch...
probably, since how many of us sit down and make A/B comparisons? Just an
off hand impression?
--
Roy Archer
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keyboard. Honest.
==========
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-
HenryFogel
>Nazi-conductors, or conductors sympathisizing with Nazis or plainly
>amoral ambitious opportunists (Boehm, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc.?).
>
>Eltjo
>
I suppose it's a waste of time to even respond -- but I have to. If you have
truly studied the period, and the behavior of each of those conductors, you
should find the word "opportunist" to be difficult to apply to Furtwangler.
"Naive", perhaps? "Hubris" (in thinking he'd be able to change things he never
had a chance to change) - perhaps.
But a conductor who refused to ever join the Nazi party, who refused to sign
hisletters "Heil Hitler" - even when they were written to Nazi officials -- who
fought the Nazis on policy matters day after day for many years -- no,
'opportunitst' is simply not a fair or reasonable description.
Henry Fogel